< 1668128018 425482 :Ginger!~ginger@pool-74-110-189-169.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net JOIN #esolangs * :realname < 1668128026 392314 :Ginger!~ginger@pool-74-110-189-169.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :greetings < 1668129204 283044 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :`welcome < 1668129207 120167 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on EFnet or DALnet.) < 1668129207 999332 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Don't get much use out of the welcomes these days. < 1668129235 525996 :Ginger!~ginger@pool-74-110-189-169.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :I have come from Code Golf Stack Exchange to observe this chatroom < 1668129332 296951 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's mostly a feed of edits to the wiki, interspersed with maybe a conversation every couple of days. Uh, spoiler warning, I guess. < 1668129347 17980 :Ginger!~ginger@pool-74-110-189-169.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :I expected no less :p < 1668129465 344884 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Well, there are logs to peruse < 1668129486 806436 :Ginger!~ginger@pool-74-110-189-169.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :fun < 1668129490 539888 :Ginger!~ginger@pool-74-110-189-169.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :love perusing logs < 1668129493 742229 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Going way way back into busier times if you feel like browsing < 1668129525 362801 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1668129582 526040 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse < 1668129653 872498 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Speaking of the logs, I guess it might be about time to remove the "recently migrated" note from the root page. < 1668129678 309967 :Ginger!~ginger@pool-74-110-189-169.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :I just came here to look around < 1668129706 639327 :Ginger!~ginger@pool-74-110-189-169.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :does markdown work here? I doubt it < 1668129844 281011 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Not unless either your IRC client translates it to "traditional" IRC formatting markup (which uses the control characters in the [1, 31] range) or the recipient's IRC client does something to it. < 1668129855 342510 :Ginger!~ginger@pool-74-110-189-169.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :I thought not < 1668129875 362832 :Ginger!~ginger@pool-74-110-189-169.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :if you ever want to do some code golf we here at CGCC are always looking for more users :b < 1668129942 200697 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think it's relatively common to put some formatting emphasis on *words* and maybe also _words_ though normally the *s and _s are still left visible in place too. That's about as far as it usually goes. < 1668129952 772468 :Ginger!~ginger@pool-74-110-189-169.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :hm < 1668129953 121290 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: It could move to the two 2021 pages maybe? Not sure how awkward that would be to hack in. < 1668129961 581536 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Maybe "common" is too much said. "Not uncommon", maybe. < 1668129974 343007 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Is there even a difference between "common" and "not uncommon"? < 1668129979 745626 :Ginger!~ginger@pool-74-110-189-169.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes < 1668129980 212598 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: considering that the overlap is exclusive to that year < 1668129989 898869 :Ginger!~ginger@pool-74-110-189-169.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :one is stronger imo < 1668130004 966228 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I agree, common is stronger < 1668130016 987342 :Ginger!~ginger@pool-74-110-189-169.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok, I'm gonna leave now < 1668130061 764789 :Ginger!~ginger@pool-74-110-189-169.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :in case you care for some reason here's CGCC's main chatroom: https://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/240/the-nineteenth-byte < 1668130063 51175 :Ginger!~ginger@pool-74-110-189-169.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :bye now < 1668130067 366127 :Ginger!~ginger@pool-74-110-189-169.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1668130074 442156 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(the difference becomes smaller the more I try to rationalize it though :P) < 1668130203 618648 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I feel that there's a gap between uncommon and common where neither term would be used; purely logically that makes no sense. < 1668130364 449886 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess there's also a general principle that double negations have a weakening effect. < 1668130449 224976 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :It wouldn't take much to make a per-year note, but it would take a code change. Right now there's an `announce` field in the config file that's just dropped as-is to all the index pages (that's used for the "we have moved" note on all the Freenode pages), I'd probably just complement it with a [year, note] map as well. < 1668130655 459834 :razetime!~quassel@117.193.0.120 JOIN #esolangs * :razetime < 1668130754 270905 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: The minimal change is probably to replace "We have recently" by "In 2021, we" > 1668134973 989482 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Smalc14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104636&oldid=103942 5* 03Joe 5* (+1) 10 > 1668137468 540215 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Smalc14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104637&oldid=104636 5* 03Joe 5* (+182) 10 < 1668139239 442971 :razetime!~quassel@117.193.0.120 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1668141119 724441 :razetime!~quassel@117.193.0.120 JOIN #esolangs * :razetime < 1668144412 191233 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1668144454 187902 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1668144607 728314 :sprout!~quassel@dhcp-077-249-168-103.chello.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1668144645 155516 :sprout!~quassel@dhcp-077-249-168-103.chello.nl JOIN #esolangs sprout :sprout < 1668146313 953840 :slavfox!~slavfox@93.158.232.111 QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in < 1668146768 136594 :slavfox!~slavfox@93.158.232.111 JOIN #esolangs slavfox :slavfox > 1668148389 459585 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Falsish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104638&oldid=104572 5* 03McChuck 5* (+23) 10/* Stack */ < 1668148481 820079 :bgs!~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net JOIN #esolangs bgs :bgs < 1668150053 499227 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1668150266 297815 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1668150871 667005 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… > 1668151752 74962 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Falsish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104639&oldid=104638 5* 03McChuck 5* (+79) 10/* Stack */ > 1668152023 754537 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Falsish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104640&oldid=104553 5* 03McChuck 5* (+121) 10/* Turing completeness */ < 1668152587 794467 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User > 1668153184 704767 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Falsish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104641&oldid=104639 5* 03McChuck 5* (+0) 10/* Stack */ > 1668155387 7840 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Falsish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104642&oldid=104641 5* 03McChuck 5* (+0) 10/* Stack */ > 1668155794 689918 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Falsish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104643&oldid=104642 5* 03McChuck 5* (+55) 10/* Stack */ > 1668156524 524872 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Falsish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104644&oldid=104643 5* 03McChuck 5* (+84) 10/* Lambda and Flow control */ > 1668156557 419873 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Falsish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104645&oldid=104644 5* 03McChuck 5* (+2) 10/* Lambda and Flow control */ > 1668156599 179713 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Falsish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104646&oldid=104645 5* 03McChuck 5* (+2) 10/* Lambda and Flow control */ > 1668157006 780438 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Falsish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104647&oldid=104646 5* 03McChuck 5* (+88) 10/* Lambda and Flow control */ > 1668157066 393680 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Falsish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104648&oldid=104647 5* 03McChuck 5* (+39) 10/* Falsish: a FALSE variant inspired by fish > */ > 1668157174 422434 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Falsish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104649&oldid=104648 5* 03McChuck 5* (+112) 10/* Falsish: a FALSE variant inspired by fish > */ > 1668157263 469374 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Falsish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104650&oldid=104649 5* 03McChuck 5* (+36) 10/* Falsish: a FALSE variant inspired by fish > */ < 1668157280 134456 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas < 1668157625 373881 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: I don't think there's a gap between common and uncommon, rather they even overlap. The golden age of Magic was around the three-set block structure, when the third set was drafted for a much shorter time and less multiplicity than the first and second set, so commons from the third sets are in fact less frequent than uncommons from the first < 1668157625 862464 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and second set. < 1668157878 468356 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"a per-year note" => hmm. once per year, the First Regular of the community would give a keynote address speech, at a podium with multiple microphones from different television channels. There'd be a screaming crowd in front of them and a two meter tall drapery with a logo hung behind them. Two other regulars would stand on their sides in clothing < 1668157879 11438 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :just as formal as the First Regular's, to show that he's not speaking alone but as a representative of the esolangs community. < 1668157917 547492 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Or maybe it would be the general secretary rather than the First Regular. < 1668158038 789790 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :If I have an instruction to multiply in GF(2^n) with one reduction polynomial, and I want to use a different polynomial, how much does it help? < 1668158105 848482 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :I can probably do a change-of-basis thing back and forth and maybe come out ahead, but can I do anything better? < 1668158133 717844 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :For example does multiplication by a constant in one thing translate to a multiplication by a different constant in the other thing? < 1668158159 751656 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :shachaf: I think if you had an instruction to multiple GF(2^(2n)) with any reduction polynomial, you could use that to carryless multiply two n-bit words, and use that plus three shifts and three xors to do a GF(2^n) multiplication. < 1668158231 445136 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm, I think x86 has carryless multiplication directly. < 1668158255 740228 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :But what do you mean about the three shifts and three xors? < 1668158561 661617 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :shachaf: the three shifts and three xors are to handle the carries, assuming the reduction polynomial has three nonzero coeffs < 1668158561 972030 :razetime!~quassel@117.193.0.120 QUIT :Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere. < 1668158620 733809 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1668158696 400827 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :if you have only GF(2^n) multiply then I think you need like four of those carryless multiplies plus a lot of extra operations to get a n-bit carryless multiply, at which point it's probably not worth for n=8 (I think all three Intel instructions work with n=8) < 1668158820 634391 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :on the plus side, the x86 instruction PCLMULQDQ carryless-multiplies two 32-bit inputs to a 64-bit output, so that's probably better to use than the wrong GF(2^8) multiplication < 1668158866 797876 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I don't know how many CPUs actually have each of the instructions natively < 1668159045 28005 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Well, if you have an isomorphism F, and you want to compute [A B C D] * [w x y z], you can compute F^-1(F([A B C D]) * F([w x y z])), right? < 1668159066 188526 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :If the capital letters are constants, that's only two operations to move back and forth. < 1668159082 957758 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :And I think you can compute the isomorphism with GF2P8AFFINEQB < 1668159273 749016 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :shachaf: but do you often multiply with constants, other than for CRC? < 1668159464 682203 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :You often do for RS encoding. < 1668159524 872094 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :I mean Reed-Solomon. < 1668161210 450293 :razetime!~quassel@117.193.0.120 JOIN #esolangs * :razetime < 1668161401 951569 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah, that makes sense < 1668161514 901131 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't quite understand how this conversion works. Is this like radix conversion, where there are ways to convert numbers from one radix to another by doing multiplication in either radix at your choice, only here you get the choice to do calculations in the representation of your choice? < 1668161582 317854 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait a moment < 1668161584 668783 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :does that even work? < 1668161672 459545 :razetime_!~quassel@117.193.0.120 JOIN #esolangs * :razetime < 1668161674 442445 :razetime!~quassel@117.193.0.120 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1668161755 63197 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I mean F is an isomorphism but it's not an automorphism, it changes representation between two different fields < 1668161771 572793 :Thedarkb-Desktop!~Thedarkb@92.40.196.0.threembb.co.uk QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1668161861 355519 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't see hwo this "two operations" thing makes sense < 1668162802 455546 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1668164168 280489 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn JOIN #esolangs toonn :Unknown < 1668164431 977677 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1668164597 126908 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas < 1668169359 753636 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: you had me interested right until "The golden age of Magic" < 1668169480 436150 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :well you have to consider only golden age, rather than point to every nonsense that they did later < 1668169676 790379 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :jargon often plays fast and loose with natural language semantics, leading to absurdities like most lambda terms not being normal < 1668169802 842915 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Or the idea that Googol is a natural number. < 1668169906 850515 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's because "normal" stands for "normalized" there, as opposed to some full measure set < 1668169924 829908 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :... < 1668169941 732344 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"Googol is a natural number" => that's very true, it's a reasonable approximation for how large our universe is in volume < 1668169959 216220 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so it's a number you naturally consider < 1668169962 349374 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :? < 1668169998 66605 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :first, that's a matter of units, secondly, that volume will not be modelled as a natural number. < 1668170005 991174 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I mean the linear size of the universe, as in the longest thing you'll consider divided by the smallest thing you consider is 2**100, so if you take the cube of that you get 10**90. 10**100 is close enough to that. < 1668170017 561675 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so it's a number that does come up in reasonable calculations. < 1668170075 393188 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and finally, the mathematical "natural" numbers are not approximations. < 1668170771 665628 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1668171955 270816 :razetime_!~quassel@117.193.0.120 NICK :razetime > 1668173159 25468 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07CTFuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104651&oldid=104521 5* 03Pro465 5* (-28) 10/* Turing Completeness */ > 1668173209 795196 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07CTFuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104652&oldid=104651 5* 03Pro465 5* (+3) 10/* Cat */ > 1668173303 34308 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07CTFuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104653&oldid=104652 5* 03Pro465 5* (-25) 10/* Truth Machine */ > 1668173542 660733 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07CTFuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104654&oldid=104653 5* 03Pro465 5* (-113) 10/* The [if_num|else_num] command */ < 1668173562 46981 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… > 1668173578 289695 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07CTFuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104655&oldid=104654 5* 03Pro465 5* (+0) 10/* Halting */ > 1668173628 68057 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07CTFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104656&oldid=104655 5* 03Pro465 5* (+6) 10/* Halting */ < 1668173733 365668 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1668175933 164336 :tech_exorcist!13203@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 JOIN #esolangs tech_exorcist :realname < 1668176802 100658 :tech_exorcist!13203@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1668176833 213256 :tech_exorcist!13203@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 JOIN #esolangs tech_exorcist :realname < 1668177214 712235 :tech_exorcist!13203@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1668177244 178307 :tech_exorcist!13203@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 JOIN #esolangs tech_exorcist :realname < 1668177487 254093 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1668177594 973217 :tech_exorcist!13203@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1668177634 181831 :tech_exorcist!13203@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 JOIN #esolangs tech_exorcist :realname < 1668178314 446827 :razetime!~quassel@117.193.0.120 QUIT :Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds. < 1668178398 453971 :razetime!~quassel@117.193.0.120 JOIN #esolangs * :razetime < 1668179347 243180 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname > 1668180594 316129 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Falsish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104657&oldid=104650 5* 03McChuck 5* (+48) 10/* Falsish: a FALSE variant inspired by fish > */ > 1668180956 516739 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ABPLWNL but with stack14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104658&oldid=104150 5* 03Mario0Fan 5* (+75) 10 > 1668180965 525631 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ABPLWNL but with stack14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104659&oldid=104658 5* 03Mario0Fan 5* (+1) 10/* Implementations */ > 1668181046 40233 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Falsish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104660&oldid=104657 5* 03McChuck 5* (+76) 10/* Lambda and Flow control */ > 1668181149 610451 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Nyank14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=104661 5* 03Idomdavis 5* (+2694) 10Created page with "'''Nyank''' is a [[Joke language list | joke]] [[esoteric programming language]] created by [http://domdavis.com Dom Davis]. It is identical to [[Brainfuck]], except that the instructions are constructed of variations of the made up word "Nyank". It represents another i < 1668183279 600758 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1668184953 868100 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1668186356 245275 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1668186428 157986 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Client Quit > 1668186891 256573 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Mario0Fan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104662&oldid=104496 5* 03Mario0Fan 5* (+39) 10 > 1668186904 452587 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Mario0Fan14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104663&oldid=104662 5* 03Mario0Fan 5* (+1) 10 < 1668186933 328524 :razetime!~quassel@117.193.0.120 QUIT :Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere. < 1668187081 750981 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User > 1668188384 147648 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07I am sure this is the shortest code for 99 bottles of beer14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104664&oldid=102616 5* 03Mario0Fan 5* (+545) 10interpreter in C < 1668189102 127380 :breck!~breck@047-044-170-114.biz.spectrum.com JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] breck < 1668189123 539563 :breck!~breck@047-044-170-114.biz.spectrum.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :is there a language like whitespace but instead of whitespace just semicolons? < 1668189147 738163 :breck!~breck@047-044-170-114.biz.spectrum.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :forgot to add URGENT (im blocked on a funny tweet idea) < 1668189271 470677 :breck!~breck@047-044-170-114.biz.spectrum.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :NM < 1668189301 356094 :breck!~breck@047-044-170-114.biz.spectrum.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Semicolon. amazing how a good URL structure eliminates the need for a search engine < 1668189425 83458 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1668189624 264927 :breck!~breck@047-044-170-114.biz.spectrum.com QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1668190125 62878 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1668190729 872121 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1668192534 795559 :imode!sid553797@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :what're some compact ways of storing strings in a dyck language? just unlabeled trees. < 1668192647 465639 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :rooted? ordered? binary? < 1668192710 118888 :imode!sid553797@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess technically rooted? < 1668192732 751819 :imode!sid553797@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :()()() has 3 nodes that need a root somewhere, so it'd be implicit. < 1668192779 392587 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the unambiguous grammar D ::= epsilon | ( D ) D makes those rooted, ordered, binary trees. < 1668192832 966914 :imode!sid553797@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, I'm just wondering if there's an alternative encoding method that saves on that space. < 1668192864 991851 :imode!sid553797@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :apart from a form of RLE. < 1668192907 483042 :sprout!~quassel@dhcp-077-249-168-103.chello.nl PRIVMSG #esolangs :nice idea, a one-character language < 1668192907 755082 :imode!sid553797@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :thought of storing the transition points as a "heightmap" but recovering the tree from that seems complicated. < 1668192916 648718 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you enumerate some 256 trees and then use a linked list of that (with nil = epsilon)? < 1668192950 653397 :imode!sid553797@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :sounds a little like hash consing. < 1668192956 989989 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :With that grammar, the list is actually pretty: [a,b,c] = (a)(b)(c) < 1668192992 862568 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :<[]> = epsilon, = () < 1668193010 339667 :imode!sid553797@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :right. I'm just searching for a shorter encoding. there aren't any symbols, it's just ( and ). < 1668193016 652443 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :... < 1668193022 42856 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so you asked the wrong question? < 1668193034 183887 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you want to encode dyck words as srings? < 1668193037 92646 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :+t < 1668193099 602170 :[!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1668193114 773290 :imode!sid553797@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :let me rephrase: I can encode unlabeled rooted trees as words from a dyck language. I'm wondering if there's a compact way of storing those words rather than the full bracketed representation or that representation + RLE. < 1668193138 572749 :imode!sid553797@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :or representing the brackets as bits. < 1668193153 82779 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :representing brackets as bits is pretty good < 1668193190 201475 :imode!sid553797@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :I was thinking of representing the words as a 'heightmap', where we'd only need to store the heights of the various 'peaks' (transition points). < 1668193221 508108 :imode!sid553797@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :and then RLE on top of that. < 1668193245 475474 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron < 1668193370 37666 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :there are ~ 4^n/(sqrt(pi)n^(3/2)) Dyck words of length 2n, so that's 4n bits to represnt 2^(4n - 3/2 log_2(n) + O(1)) possibilities < 1668193377 151634 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's really quite efficient. < 1668193382 606182 :imode!sid553797@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :so the string (((()))()()(()))() would have a heightmap of 4 2 2 3 1. < 1668193383 911933 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :err < 1668193387 754532 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :s/4n/2n/g < 1668193447 575277 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_number) < 1668193449 975862 :imode!sid553797@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :hm. < 1668193562 853489 :imode!sid553797@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :that heightmap encoding, assuming you use unary, saves on a single bit. < 1668193587 802177 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :right, but you can leave off the final ) from any non-empty Dyck word. < 1668193612 634258 :imode!sid553797@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah, because you're assuming it'll be terminated/matched. < 1668193621 521423 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm just assuming that you're not interested in miniscule savings. < 1668193634 107237 :imode!sid553797@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :no, just interested whether they translate into macro-scale savings. < 1668193651 513203 :imode!sid553797@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :gonna be working with some large strings. < 1668193654 542312 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can also *pad* a Dyck word with extra )s, so storing bits in bytes is not an issue even if you can't store a bit length. < 1668193740 783538 :imode!sid553797@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :there is some savings if you use bytes for your heights if your strings are large, I'd think. (((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))) gets shrunk down to 8 bits. < 1668193747 193981 :imode!sid553797@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :vs. 32. < 1668193782 252884 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :So I think if you sample binary trees with n leafs uniformly, Dyck words are kind of the gold standard (you /can/ save those O(log(n)) bits but it'll probably cost you in decodability. < 1668193803 52187 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :If your trees have *structure*, you have the usual data compression opportunities. < 1668193811 771947 :imode!sid553797@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :they can be arbitrary, unfortunately. < 1668193844 492601 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(we routinely compress binary data after all; this isn't so much different) < 1668193865 442238 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, at a high level. < 1668193890 495739 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Data compression *algorithms* tend to work on strings. < 1668194111 469840 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1668194548 268920 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-12-161.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's not that hard to compress them perfectly, as in figure out the index of any rooted unlabeled tree on n nodes among all those trees in some canonical order. you can definitely do it in O(n**(2+epsilon)) time, very likely in O(n**(1+epsilon)) time too. you just need to add numbers from one of these fancy matrices that you can compute with a recursion, or two of those matrices. < 1668194558 448699 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-12-161.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :sort of like how you can encode a permutation < 1668194596 619252 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-12-161.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can probably get a fast enough approximate solution in O(n**(1+epsilon)) at least < 1668195714 949912 :tech_exorcist!13203@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1668195783 190773 :tech_exorcist!13203@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 JOIN #esolangs tech_exorcist :realname < 1668196445 144871 :Koen!~Koen@2a01cb0407597a00387d29f3d9773f96.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN #esolangs * :Koen < 1668196585 679861 :tech_exorcist!13203@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1668196613 182129 :tech_exorcist!13203@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 JOIN #esolangs tech_exorcist :realname < 1668197365 57271 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1668197501 681428 :tech_exorcist!13203@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 QUIT :Quit: Disconnecting < 1668198099 490607 :imode!sid553797@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, I did a brute force thing. unary heightmaps win out against the binary representation a significant amount of time. < 1668198134 651084 :imode!sid553797@user/imode PRIVMSG #esolangs :considering you're discarding like, at least half the bits. < 1668198361 161139 :tech_exorcist!13203@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 JOIN #esolangs tech_exorcist :realname < 1668198382 714363 :tech_exorcist!13203@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1668198410 177148 :tech_exorcist!13203@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 JOIN #esolangs tech_exorcist :realname < 1668198435 662079 :tech_exorcist!13203@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1668198470 226826 :tech_exorcist!13203@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 JOIN #esolangs tech_exorcist :realname < 1668198972 86064 :tech_exorcist!13203@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1668199048 123244 :tech_exorcist!13203@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 JOIN #esolangs tech_exorcist :realname < 1668199632 335786 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1668202009 49592 :bgs!~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1668202702 401654 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1668203191 522837 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1668203273 159995 :Koen!~Koen@2a01cb0407597a00387d29f3d9773f96.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1668204137 731191 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1668204716 617028 :tech_exorcist!13203@user/tech-exorcist/x-0447479 QUIT :Quit: Disconnecting < 1668205538 17662 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-12-161.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot, please summarize Darth Vader's move AI and how best to manipulate to avoid him < 1668205538 501602 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: not really. he's far north, and 41 degrees, 3 minutes east!!! i hefe-a un essoomeble mortgege!!! < 1668205549 192995 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-12-161.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that doesn't help < 1668205599 474330 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :41 degrees isn't far north < 1668205764 960686 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :No, it was far north and 41 degrees east. < 1668205920 334736 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah < 1668206162 420067 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1668209618 275216 :ManDeJan!3da94070ba@user/mandejan JOIN #esolangs ManDeJan :ManDeJan < 1668209646 110024 :leah2!~leah@vuxu.org JOIN #esolangs leah2 :Leah Neukirchen < 1668209746 945207 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid QUIT :Quit: iovoid has quit! < 1668209746 950707 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/bowserinator QUIT :Quit: Blame iczero something happened < 1668209751 746013 :dbohdan!~dbohdan@user/dbohdan JOIN #esolangs dbohdan :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1668209755 161103 :[iovoid]!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid JOIN #esolangs iovoid :∃definition for iovoid? < 1668209763 443010 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/bowserinator JOIN #esolangs Bowserinator :No VPS :( < 1668209810 506543 :[iovoid]!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid NICK :iovoid > 1668210134 521338 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Falsish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104665&oldid=104660 5* 03McChuck 5* (+157) 10/* Falsish: a FALSE variant inspired by fish > */ < 1668210313 188717 :Cale!~cale@cpef48e38ee8583-cm30b7d4b3fc20.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN #esolangs Cale :realname > 1668210412 151264 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Falsish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104666&oldid=104665 5* 03McChuck 5* (+388) 10/* Variables */ > 1668210445 539980 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Falsish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104667&oldid=104666 5* 03McChuck 5* (+5) 10/* Variables */ > 1668210457 440024 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Falsish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104668&oldid=104667 5* 03McChuck 5* (-2) 10/* Variables */ > 1668210531 832892 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Falsish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104669&oldid=104668 5* 03McChuck 5* (+0) 10/* Example programs */ > 1668210689 956792 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Falsish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104670&oldid=104669 5* 03McChuck 5* (+120) 10/* Example programs */ > 1668210718 470366 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Falsish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104671&oldid=104670 5* 03McChuck 5* (-5) 10/* Example programs */