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00:00:38 <b_jonas> FireFly: I'm not sure he can. it might be a write-only thing.
00:01:58 <sprout> well, I found the homepage
00:02:09 <b_jonas> I mean even some of the code that I write is so badly structured that it's write-only, though this declined a bit since I have much less time now to code as a hobby and mostly just write stuff for work
00:02:09 <fizzie> sprout: Quite explicit. The overall structure is, the {...}{nz}w! (that surrounds most of the code) is a while loop that keeps going as long as the top of the stack is "nonzero" (for a list aka block, nonempty); that's the queue for the BFS, where each element has the form {{y x} z d} where {y x} is a position, z the current height, and d the current distance. And then the bulk of it is to pop
00:02:11 <fizzie> one off from the front (g_), generate its neighbours (2336 3dg?d2cojbc{?+}Z]), filter it to keep only in-bounds elements (J<]0>=g0saj-]L[_+x/?-<]0.>&&), map over them to also include the neighbour heights (Jg0jd!bxj+]), append d+1 to each, filter one more time to keep only the neighbors that are at most one step higher ({[~<=}[[x/jf[), update the level to mark the surviving neighbors as visited,
00:02:13 <fizzie> and finally append them to the end of the queue.
00:03:13 <b_jonas> now I actually give meaningful names to most identifiers, not just one or two character golfed nonsense
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00:03:27 <b_jonas> still not writing the most beautiful code admittedly
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00:04:10 <b_jonas> it's getting a bit spaghetti-ish as I'm adding more and more features that expand to scope to beyond what I planned the code would do and rarely spend time to refactor
00:04:19 <fizzie> Oh, and there's a bit in there to push a copy of each element popped off of the queue into the state stack (JPp) so that at the end it can look up the element corresponding to visiting the endpoint and get the distance at the time (p\CLg1{-]==}[[fe[~).
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00:05:47 <sprout> fizzie: that's roughly what I implemented too I think
00:06:24 <sprout> fizzie: in what language did you implement burlesque? assuming you did
00:06:49 <fizzie> I didn't. But the reference (only?) implementation is written in Haskell.
00:07:37 <fizzie> A former #esolangs (well, #esoteric at the time) person did, that's where I picked it up.
00:07:41 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105311&oldid=105290 * Nurdle * (+207) /* Introductions */
00:08:05 <esolangs> [[User:Nurdle]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105312 * Nurdle * (+115) The Creator of ABFC
00:08:08 <fizzie> I think if I had written it, there would be quite the temptation to add more builtins. As it is, I get to take the language as immutable.
00:08:35 <esolangs> [[ABFC (Another BrainFuck Clone)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105313 * Nurdle * (+3381) '''ABFC''' (stands for "Another BrainFuck Clone") is a language created in ~6 hours by [[User:Nurdle|Nurdle]].
00:08:48 <sprout> I try to avoid adding stuff to the prelude
00:09:04 <sprout> otherwise you end up with a language to gold aoc I guess
00:09:18 <FireFly> at least burlesque derivatives would be less stale than brainfuck derivatives
00:10:16 <sprout> burlesque already seems a bit geared towards aoc. dynamic, int and string types, concatenative with off map
00:10:26 <sprout> that's what you need to solve most aoc
00:11:17 <b_jonas> but also, twenty years! esoteric is twenty years old! can you believe it?
00:11:34 <fizzie> It's got a couple of very non-AoC-related builtins around statistics, I think due to the history.
00:12:04 <esolangs> [[ABFC (Another BrainFuck Clone)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105314&oldid=105313 * Nurdle * (+32)
00:12:31 <esolangs> [[ABFC (Another BrainFuck Clone)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105315&oldid=105314 * Nurdle * (-2)
00:12:42 <fizzie> Like builtins for chi-squared tests, and CDFs and PDFs for a couple of distributions.
00:13:52 <FireFly> hm I wonder if someone has a nix derivation for the burlesque interpreter somewhere
00:14:03 <sprout> the lib ;). I have no idea what primitives I need for statistics
00:14:10 <b_jonas> admittedly I've been here for less than half of those twenty years
00:14:20 <sprout> but I am kindof done with egel anyway
00:14:37 <sprout> it's either make egel faster or implement another language
00:14:44 <sprout> leaning towards the second
00:14:52 <FireFly> b_jonas: it's weird to think that I've been here for more than half this channel's history, I don't feel like an oldie here :p
00:15:47 <b_jonas> FireFly: maybe because the channel moves slowly it doesn't feel like ten years?
00:21:23 <fizzie> I made a minimal .cabal file for Burlesque to get it running for AoC purposes.
00:21:46 <fizzie> https://0x0.st/onqe.cabal
00:24:15 <b_jonas> if the channel is 20 years old, we probalby have people here who are adults now but whom Taneb invented while this channel already existed
00:25:33 <fizzie> That + a Setup.hs file (https://0x0.st/onqL.hs) + the latest commit at https://github.com/FMNSSun/Burlesque (1753bdf) is what I've been using. Although there's a slightly weird thing about installing it: it produces two executables, of which `blsq-golf` runs from wherever but only accepts programs from a file, while the main `blsq` has a REPL but the REPL only works if a `Prelude.blsq` file is in
00:25:35 <fizzie> the current directory.
00:35:17 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105316&oldid=105291 * Nurdle * (+89) /* A */
00:35:51 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105317&oldid=105316 * Nurdle * (+2) /* A */
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04:36:10 <HackEso> 1/1:1289) <doesthiswork> there are very few things more child friendly than breasts \ 478) <Phantom_Hoover> I keep asking random people for "friendship <thing>" and it's crippling
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05:36:25 <esolangs> [[UnholyC]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105318 * Nurdle * (+1154) create page (unfinished)
05:36:59 <esolangs> [[User:Nurdle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105319&oldid=105312 * Nurdle * (-8)
06:12:37 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Optic Fusion1 * New user account
06:16:36 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105320&oldid=105311 * Optic Fusion1 * (+124)
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12:00:59 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Arisu * New user account
12:13:42 <esolangs> [[UnholyC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105321&oldid=105318 * Nurdle * (+1941)
12:14:40 <esolangs> [[UnholyC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105322&oldid=105321 * Nurdle * (+0)
12:15:55 <esolangs> [[UnholyC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105323&oldid=105322 * Nurdle * (+1)
12:18:10 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105324&oldid=105320 * Arisu * (+157) /* Introductions */
12:29:59 <esolangs> [[Shapes]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105325 * Arisu * (+528) stub
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12:31:28 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105326&oldid=105317 * Arisu * (+13) add shapes
13:28:22 <fizzie> There's something weird in the Burlesque "SortBy" primitive, and I remember running into it in the past too.
13:28:28 <fizzie> `blsq {1 5 2 4 3}{cm}sb "this does work"vv
13:28:34 <fizzie> `blsq 1 5 cm 5 5 cm 5 1 cm CL "the pairwise results of cm are what you'd expect"vv
13:28:44 <fizzie> `blsq %XC={cm} 1 5 XC 5 5 XC 5 1 XC CL "a custom primitive defined on top of it returns the same results"vv
13:28:54 <fizzie> `blsq %XC={cm} {1 5 2 4 3}{XC}sb "but the custom primitive doesn't work with SortBy"vv
13:29:02 <fizzie> `blsq {1 5 2 4 3}{%XC={cm}XC}sb "except if redefined inside the block"vv
13:29:26 <fizzie> It was something like, the sort function is ran in an entirely separate environment, with nothing shared with the main one.
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14:33:20 <wib_jonas> fizzie: https://mroman.ch/burlesque/lref.html says "Since Burlesque 1.7.3 you can use state even inside maps/filters etc. (However, this doesn't work for sortBy yet).", but I'm not sure if that refers to using your definition of XC inside a comparison function, or only to writing the state inside a comparison function and then reading it later, in
14:33:21 <wib_jonas> another comparision function or outside the sort.
14:38:48 <esolangs> [[UnholyC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105327&oldid=105323 * Nurdle * (+4)
14:40:11 <esolangs> [[UnholyC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105328&oldid=105327 * Nurdle * (+29)
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14:41:13 <esolangs> [[ABFC (Another BrainFuck Clone)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105329&oldid=105315 * Nurdle * (+56)
14:42:00 <esolangs> [[UnholyC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105330&oldid=105328 * Nurdle * (+5)
14:42:19 <esolangs> [[ABFC (Another BrainFuck Clone)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105331&oldid=105329 * Nurdle * (+30)
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15:28:05 <fizzie> I suspect it's mostly thinking about the state stack and variables (which also don't appear to work inside SortBy comparator), but maybe definitions work the same way.
15:34:47 <wib_jonas> also I realized the Burlesque is old. it's over ten years old, so it's been here for more than half of the esolang channel's history\
15:35:49 <wib_jonas> for some reason I thought Burlesque was among these modern golf languages, but I guess even those are old
15:37:21 <wib_jonas> Burlesque is older than Jelly and Brachylog
15:41:29 <wib_jonas> by the way, how old dates can git handle? can you date a commit to before 1970? before 1890?
15:43:44 <esolangs> [[ABFC (Another BrainFuck Clone)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105332&oldid=105331 * Nurdle * (+101)
15:44:07 <esolangs> [[UnholyC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105333&oldid=105330 * Nurdle * (+14)
15:50:40 <wib_jonas> looks like it can handle dates from around 1973-03, before that it thinks the unix epoch has too few digits. typical git nonsense
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16:04:53 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105334&oldid=105326 * Nurdle * (+60) /* U */
16:09:10 <esolangs> [[UnholyC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105335&oldid=105333 * Nurdle * (-38)
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16:10:51 <esolangs> [[User:Nurdle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105336&oldid=105319 * Nurdle * (+108)
16:11:34 <esolangs> [[User:Nurdle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105337&oldid=105336 * Nurdle * (+42)
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16:23:19 <esolangs> [[User:Nurdle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105338&oldid=105337 * Nurdle * (+309)
16:24:12 <esolangs> [[User:Nurdle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105339&oldid=105338 * Nurdle * (-377) /* Esolangs */
16:25:40 <esolangs> [[User:Nurdle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105340&oldid=105339 * Nurdle * (+202) /* Things I've Made */
16:27:53 <esolangs> [[Talk:ABFC (Another BrainFuck Clone)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105341 * Nurdle * (+88) Created page with ""First" ~~~~"
16:28:41 <esolangs> [[Talk:ABFC (Another BrainFuck Clone)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105342&oldid=105341 * Nurdle * (-88) did not mean to save changes
17:22:21 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105343&oldid=105280 * Nurdle * (+14) /* Lesser known programming languages */
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18:33:47 <esolangs> [[ALMBARC12YO]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105344 * Viba1 * (+649) Created page with "'''ALMBARC12YO''' is A Language Made By A Really Clever 12 Year Old. It is like [[Brainfuck]] but a bit different. I am really smart and clever. == Why I made it? == A few months ago I started to learn python so i could make Minecraft 2 and get really rich and famous
18:35:06 <esolangs> [[ABFC (Another BrainFuck Clone)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105345&oldid=105332 * Nurdle * (+802)
18:39:36 <esolangs> [[ABFC (Another BrainFuck Clone)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105346&oldid=105345 * Nurdle * (+161)
18:40:05 <esolangs> [[ABFC (Another BrainFuck Clone)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105347&oldid=105346 * Nurdle * (-27) /* Truth Machine */
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19:09:10 <esolangs> [[ABFC (Another BrainFuck Clone)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105348&oldid=105347 * Nurdle * (-154)
19:09:29 <esolangs> [[ABFC (Another BrainFuck Clone)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105349&oldid=105348 * Nurdle * (+0) /* Truth Machine */
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19:48:12 <b_jonas> Age of Mythology and Warcraft 3 are both 20 years old, and Starcraft is even older. this is crazy.
19:53:33 <esolangs> [[Hotel]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105350 * K * (+3996) created literally the entire page
19:54:07 <b_jonas> how did everything get so old?
19:54:37 <b_jonas> I mean those are games with 3D graphics!
19:54:54 <b_jonas> AoM and Warcraft 3 that is
20:00:43 <esolangs> [[Hotel]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105351&oldid=105350 * K * (+26) added stuff
20:00:58 <esolangs> [[Hotel]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105352&oldid=105351 * K * (-17)
20:22:56 <esolangs> [[Brainfault]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105353&oldid=89796 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+172) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the brainfault programming language on GitHub.
20:23:21 <esolangs> [[Brainfault]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105354&oldid=105353 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+179) Added categories to the page.
20:24:39 <esolangs> [[User:Nurdle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105355&oldid=105340 * Nurdle * (+8) /* Interpreters */
20:28:44 <esolangs> [[User:Nurdle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105356&oldid=105355 * Nurdle * (+210) /* Interpreters */
20:29:58 <esolangs> [[Brainfault]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105357&oldid=105354 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+533) Introduced an examples compact of three initial members, one being an infinite cat program, the other two contrasting variants of the truth-machine.
20:40:05 <b_jonas> TIL that Saturn has a pair of moons with an interesting orbit. Janus (150 km diameter) and Epimetheus (100 km diameter) go around Jupiter every 17 hours or so. for four years, Epimetheus is orbiting a little bit faster than Janus, so that it laps Epimetheus after 2000 orbits. then they bounce on each other gravitationally, so for the next four years Epimetheus is going very slightly slower than Janus.
20:40:11 <b_jonas> then Janus laps Epimetheus after 2000 orbits, they bounce again and they're back to the start.
20:41:30 <b_jonas> this sounds quite cool, we should get a pair of moons around earth in a similar configuration.
21:38:40 <esolangs> [[4BOD]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105358&oldid=87542 * Salpynx * (+25) /* Truth Machine */
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21:43:04 <esolangs> [[UnholyC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105359&oldid=105335 * Nurdle * (-43) /* Queueing */
21:51:24 <esolangs> [[UnholyC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105360&oldid=105359 * Nurdle * (+207)
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22:50:37 <esolangs> [[EsoFur]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105361&oldid=105302 * TaserTheFox * (+699) Turns out, I forgot to include the command to declare a variable; New commands
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23:22:06 <esolangs> [[Brainfault]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105362&oldid=105357 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+377) Subsumed the three previous example program into the newly introduced examples section and preceded each with an explanatory paragraph.
23:25:34 <esolangs> [[Brainfault]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105363&oldid=105362 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+3) Embedded a hyperlink to the brainfuck article in the preamble.
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