00:31:47 <esolangs> [[Calculator fuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105824&oldid=105821 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+22) Added missing periods to entries in the instruction table.
00:44:06 <b_jonas> shachaf: hmm
00:44:16 <b_jonas> I'm not convinced
00:48:58 <shachaf> int-e: OK, that explains it. I didn't read those signs you said I should read closely enough.
02:55:59 <esolangs> [[*]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105825&oldid=105798 * Earthrulerr * (+76) /* C++ */
02:56:35 <esolangs> [[*]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105826&oldid=105825 * Earthrulerr * (+13) /* C++ */
03:03:52 <esolangs> [[To The Top Right Corner]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105827&oldid=102659 * Earthrulerr * (+158) 
03:21:08 <esolangs> [[To The Top Right Corner]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105828&oldid=105827 * Earthrulerr * (+15) /* Example */
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05:33:30 <shachaf> (Specifically I assumed "teleporter" meant "wormhole".)
07:06:05 <int-e> Oh no, I missed that too. I also missed *another* weird teleport possibility though... let's see if I can find a suitable place
07:07:11 <shachaf> Wait, your extra cryptids aren't from that? Then I'm confused about where they are from.
07:07:28 <shachaf> I'm at 18+24+17
07:09:53 <int-e> have you found the "extra hard" puzzles yet?
07:10:02 <shachaf> Current map: https://slbkbs.org/tmp/su/steve.png
07:10:08 <shachaf> I think the answer is no?
07:10:29 <int-e> it is no indeed. there's a cryptid there, maybe a star, I forgot.
07:10:48 <int-e> (in quotes because they really weren't that hard to my mind)
07:10:51 <shachaf> I've been trying to figure out how to go left in 11,20. There's obviously something there.
07:12:03 <int-e> that is the spot, yeah
07:12:26 <shachaf> Figures.
07:12:36 <shachaf> I've spent a while on that one and I still don't see it.
07:13:03 <int-e> and you're still missing a hint from a sign too
07:13:09 <int-e> which will give you a star
07:14:58 <int-e> (I wonder whether there are more hints that flew over my head)
07:16:33 <shachaf> Other loose ends are the "impossible" star at 14,19, where it's possible (or useful) to exit the meta room with the cryptid-locked door with two cats, and what's going on with the lake.
07:18:23 <shachaf> Hmm, tracking down signs sounds tedious. Maybe it's the one that says something about wormholes being between two barriers?
07:19:07 <int-e> nah it has nothing to do with teleportation
07:19:59 <int-e> Oh damn... the barrier thing might apply elsewhere too. I didn't even consider that.
07:21:55 <int-e> (So far I don't think it does though...)
07:22:53 <shachaf> Hmm, I doubt it's the one about the level editor.
07:23:15 <int-e> yeah I /hope/ that's just a way to find spoilers
07:23:28 <int-e> and maybe one or two extra levels that don't count for anything
07:24:22 <int-e> (for example, there's a level mentioned in the chat arena, though I forgot the coordinates)
07:25:40 <shachaf> Oh, hmm.
07:26:45 <shachaf> OK, current guess is that this applies to 14,8.
07:26:59 <shachaf> Aha, it appeared just after I said that.
07:30:08 <shachaf> Got it.
07:30:18 <int-e> okay, I made my first "hybrid" teleport
07:30:19 <shachaf> OK, I should have noticed that when I first saw the sign.
07:30:42 <shachaf> I've only done two of those.
07:32:35 <shachaf> Please invent a cryptographic protocol for spoiler-free finding the intersections of what we've both solved.
07:33:41 <shachaf> Anyway, 18+25+17
07:35:01 <int-e> You can't get to the lake with two kittens, I think?
07:37:06 <shachaf> Not as far as I know.
07:46:12 <shachaf> I was thinking the lake was a map or something before. It has a few suspicious similarities to the actual map.
07:46:27 <shachaf> But I'm more dubious now.
07:52:24 <shachaf> Man, I don't know what I'm missing in 11,20.
07:54:09 <shachaf> Oh, I think I just got it.
07:57:47 <shachaf> Right, OK.
07:57:53 <shachaf> I keep forgetting about this trick.
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08:19:43 <shachaf> So that brings me to 18+26+19
08:32:26 <int-e> Oh, an optional puzzle with a star!
08:34:30 <int-e> I think that's the one mentioned in the chat.
08:37:21 <shachaf> Is that the one at 8,9?
08:37:38 <shachaf> I haven't figured out how to get there yet.
08:37:52 <int-e> yep
08:40:00 <shachaf> Hmm, it doesn't seem to be via a teleport, at least.
08:58:13 <int-e> it's so easy to miss a teleport
09:28:43 <int-e> 18+26+21 (updated https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/steve.png too)
09:30:16 <int-e> And I still see two places where you've been that I missed. And of course the nice try star.
09:38:02 <shachaf> Which two?
09:39:13 <int-e> 4,16 and 8,11
09:39:14 <shachaf> Oh, you got the teleporter thing from the finale place.
09:39:57 <int-e> Well, I made another scan of my map...
09:40:27 <shachaf> Hmm, I think there's another thing I've figured out that maybe you haven't yet, but even saying anything about it is too much of a clue.
10:14:59 <int-e> another cryptid... and once again one that you don't have
10:15:24 <int-e> (well, when you last uploaded)
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10:15:58 <int-e> shachaf: I /may/ have figured out something that you haven't, as well.
10:17:53 <shachaf> Sounds very likely!
10:22:00 <int-e> one rather weird corner case was needed to get to the blue area (bottom left)
10:22:41 <int-e> There's a sort of tutorial room for that trick though.
10:23:39 <int-e> (gjryirpbzznguvegrra)
10:26:38 <int-e> and another candidate room for shenanigans...
10:27:47 <int-e> that will be annoying
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10:41:26 <int-e> false alarm I think
10:48:31 <shachaf> int-e: That corner case was needed for the bottom star of 7,20, right? Or do you mean something else?
10:55:50 <shachaf> Oh, right, and that star lets you get to the lake, I guess that's what you meant.
11:01:36 <int-e> yes that's what I meant
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11:16:16 <int-e> Okay, that was that star.
11:16:52 <int-e> (nice try)
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11:20:03 <int-e> But I didn't get the idea until I basically already had the star.
11:20:17 <shachaf> It's the only place that mechanic is used in that way, I think.
11:23:29 <shachaf> (Na rzcgl oyhr synt ba n ebbz obhaqnel lbh ragre ba.)
11:24:14 <int-e> yeah I don't see another opportunity for this on the map
11:26:04 <int-e> V jnf *gelvat* gb cerfreir n png gb gur evtug... gung qvqa'g jbex.
11:26:26 <int-e> But I did a better job of exploring the search space this time.
11:26:59 <int-e> So the count is now 18+27+22
11:27:53 <int-e> (and that will be it for now)
11:27:55 <shachaf> I'm still at 18+26+19
11:28:02 <shachaf> I think maybe you have a superset of what I have now?
11:28:39 <int-e> No, I still lack those two rooms I mentioned.
11:28:47 <int-e> Which I assume contain a cryptid each.
11:29:46 <shachaf> Oh, hmm.
11:31:36 <int-e> https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/steve.png still has 3 obvious holes...
11:32:29 <int-e> Anyway except for that star, all I've done today was look for teleportation opportunities.
11:36:02 <int-e> At least it's starting to look complete. What I had previously looked like swiss cheese.
11:37:58 <int-e> Wait, does the map spell out "US" with its walls?
11:39:33 <shachaf> I guess so.
11:43:58 <shachaf> I'm very puzzled by the 14,19 "impossible" star.
11:44:39 <int-e> maybe there's a call-a-friend joker somewhere in the game
11:45:21 <int-e> (an extra kitten is the closest I have to an idea... and there's just nothing there to make it happen)
11:46:01 <int-e> well, actually... now that I say that
11:46:30 <int-e> Nah, I've got nothing. Just hallucinations.
11:48:52 <int-e> Oh, actually... I do have a story.
11:49:26 <int-e> Wow, I need to try this.
11:52:43 <shachaf> Got it.
11:53:16 <shachaf> Whew.
11:53:55 <esolangs> [[Talk:SS]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105829&oldid=19940 * TJC games * (+87) /* Hmmm */ new section
11:54:53 <int-e> That worked.
11:56:05 <shachaf> Man, this is reminiscent of how we both spent a while on 5,15.
11:56:51 <int-e> A bit, yes.
11:58:00 <int-e> Well, that was obvious in retrospect. Typical.
11:59:16 <int-e> Chfuvat fgnef nebhaq whfg qbrfa'g pbzr anghenyyl gb zr :-P
12:00:13 <int-e> But I also hadn't thought of backtracking that far.
12:01:32 <esolangs> [[It Is Not What It Is]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105830&oldid=103164 * TJC games * (+16) /* examples */
12:22:06 <esolangs> [[It Is Not What It Is]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105831&oldid=105830 * TJC games * (+45) /* examples */
12:24:31 <esolangs> [[It Is Not What It Is]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105832&oldid=105831 * TJC games * (-1) /* examples */
12:28:53 <esolangs> [[Geolang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105833&oldid=100254 * TJC games * (+17) /* Links */
12:29:15 <esolangs> [[Geolang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105834&oldid=105833 * TJC games * (-117) /* Links */
12:31:14 <esolangs> [[User:TJC games]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105835&oldid=105606 * TJC games * (-63) 
12:36:07 <esolangs> [[Talk:DimensionDoors]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105836 * TJC games * (+53) /* /* Oh so like the minecraft mod? */ new section */ new section
12:36:16 <esolangs> [[Talk:DimensionDoors]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105837&oldid=105836 * TJC games * (-18) /* /* Oh so like the minecraft mod? */ new section */
14:55:36 <b_jonas>  an impossible star that's obvious in retrospect. yes, I was stuck on two of those in Patrick's Parabox for a while
14:57:02 <b_jonas> it was Wall 7 that seemed impossible for quite a while
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16:50:58 <shachaf> This game is a fair bit harder than Patrick's Parabox, I think.
17:51:59 <int-e> Being obvious in retrospect is really the hallmark of good puzzles. There's a bad kind... "I did nothing special for 257 moves and now it's somehow solved."
18:01:08 <int-e> (Where they make levels hard simply by making them huge with a big search space. Sokoban suffered a bit from that, but at least for the original levels, has the redeeming quality that the levels split into components that can be analyzed separately.)
18:02:11 <int-e> https://store.steampowered.com/app/879850/Box_The_Game/ is a strong offender there to my mind.
18:03:04 <int-e> (There's a demo and the first 20 out of 50 levels are kind of fun.)
18:03:08 <int-e> Oh it has no undo.
18:05:40 <int-e> This thing to the right here is an actual later level and they get even bigger: https://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/879850/header.jpg?t=1633383672
18:08:37 <int-e> What other complaints did I have... the UI is rather clunky, being uselessly 3D and for later levels, only allowing you to view part of it at once. And I dug into the resources and found beauties like a, uh, I forgot, 50MB maybe, sky texture? And levels are actually stored as 3D models, including the floor... they're huge. I never managed to decode them (which was why I went there originally.)
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18:37:17 <zzo38> I have not played that game but I think that you are right, since I do not like those things either, and I have seen other puzzle games that have these problems. It is why I like Hero Hearts and why I made up my own implementation (with, in my opinion, some improvements than the original).
18:39:02 <zzo38> Do you like Hero Hearts?
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20:40:28 <esolangs> [[*]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105838&oldid=105826 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-32) /* C++ */ Formatting
22:14:23 <b_jonas> int-e: yep, that shows it's a good puzzle
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