2022-12-01:

00:09:46 <esolangs> [[BackStart]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104989&oldid=98187 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+196) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the BackStart programming language on GitHub and added the category tag Implemented.
00:11:32 <esolangs> [[BackStart]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104990&oldid=104989 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+67) Rectified the Hello World example which hitherto would print He|o, wor|d.
00:12:59 <esolangs> [[BackStart]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104991&oldid=104990 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+123) Added a second example, based upon the UBLANG counter from one to infinity.
00:16:54 <esolangs> [[BackStart]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104992&oldid=104991 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+157) Improved the command table's diction, orthography, and formatting.
00:18:12 <esolangs> [[2.+-]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104993&oldid=104913 * Kaveh Yousefi * (-2) Rectified the Interpreter section level.
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03:10:44 <zzo38> Rule 305.7 of Magic: the Gathering says "If an effect sets a land's subtype to one or more of the basic land types ... it loses ... any copiable effects affecting that land".
03:11:25 <zzo38> That would seem to apply in the wrong layer, apparently would include copiable effects affecting its copiable values even other than its types/subtypes and abilities.
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08:04:38 <esolangs> [[Array++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104994&oldid=104988 * Z Z * (+1) /* Array++ */
08:04:53 <esolangs> [[Array++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104995&oldid=104994 * Z Z * (+1) /* Array++ (same, but no comments) */
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12:26:08 <wib_jonas> zzo38: I think it's in "the wrong layer" only if you think of the effect as primarily a type change effect. it's not really, it's just templated in a silly way. you should think of Sea's Claim as an effect that acts on multiple layers at once in an odd way, where it cancels copy effects and changes types and removes abilities printed but doesn't
12:26:09 <wib_jonas> remove other effects.  I wish wizards did something with it, ideally change the rule to something saner, eg. just overwrite the whole card with a copy effect, and change the template to match that, or at least add a reminder text. I wonder if they keep it because it's mostly competition players who play those effects and those players are too used
12:26:09 <wib_jonas> to Sea's Claim's weird effects and template; perhaps because they want the flavor text to fit; perhaps because Jinx from Homelands, which as far as I understand is the first card with the effect, says "type" even though basic lands weren't even printed with land types back then; perhaps because there isn't any good concise way to template that odd
12:26:10 <wib_jonas> effect.
12:31:12 <wib_jonas> maybe the effect should say "Target land becomes the copy of an Island land." or "Target land becomes the copy of a land of the basic land type of your choice." resp, and act as *just* a copy ability, one that replaces copiable values with a clear state that only has a name, type, and subtype, kind of like in tokens. That would act almost the same
12:31:13 <wib_jonas> as the current weird rule. The only problem is that that template isn't really good, because it reads as if it wants you to choose an Island permanent and copy from that, instead of copy from a clean state. Maybe it's just hard to find a good template.
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13:21:07 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck derivatives]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104996&oldid=100689 * ColorfulGalaxy * (-1) Fixed spelling
13:57:07 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104997&oldid=103566 * ColorfulGalaxy * (+341) 
14:00:16 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104998&oldid=104997 * ColorfulGalaxy * (+81) 
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14:20:40 <esolangs> [[Array++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=104999&oldid=104995 * Z Z * (+0) /* Grammar */
14:20:52 <esolangs> [[Array++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105000&oldid=104999 * Z Z * (+0) /* Reserved symbols */
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17:14:39 <esolangs> [[BackStart]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105001&oldid=104992 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+38) Added the category tag Output only and improved the introduction sentence's orthography.
17:15:05 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Khayler *  New user account
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18:28:37 <zzo38> What would make sense, but it is not what the rules say. It also says that it loses all abilities generated from its rules text and all old land types, and not any other abilities; this suggests a different layer than layer 1. It also says it does not lose any types and supertypes that it might have.
18:35:22 <b_jonas> huh, they broke the link https://magic.wizards.com/en/gameinfo/gameplay/formats/comprehensiverules to the page from where the comp rules are listed. 
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18:43:10 <zzo38> They broke a lot of links, unfortunately. They did that before, too, many times. They should not do that. They changed the multiverse ID number of a card which broke only one URL, but now they changed a lot more URLs and broke a lot more stuff, so now it is even worse. (And they had broke old URLs many times before that, too)
18:47:26 <b_jonas> "does not lose any types and supertypes" => hmm. are they afraid of Mirrodin affinity players revolting because their opponent can use Sea's claim to turn their artifact land to non-artifact?
18:49:53 <b_jonas> anyway yes, that rule 305.7 is rather unfortunate. you should probably try to write a better one if you maintain your heavier alternate ruleset.
18:54:27 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * GemedetAdept *  New user account
18:58:25 <zzo38> I try to think of what would be the best way to write it.
18:59:51 <zzo38> Did you read what rules I have so far, and suggestions to change them?
19:09:45 <b_jonas> no, I haven't looked at them for years
19:09:56 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105002&oldid=104954 * GemedetAdept * (+761) Add introduction.
19:12:01 <zzo38> I made a link recently, though
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19:33:05 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105003&oldid=103321 * GemedetAdept * (+993) Add ideas for languages written in D'ni, Hittite, and fino' CHamoru.
19:35:02 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105004&oldid=105003 * GemedetAdept * (+219) Add signatures to ideas.
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20:24:50 <esolangs> [[MoonScript]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105005 * Hakerh400 * (+1818) +[[MoonScript]]
20:25:22 <esolangs> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105006&oldid=104972 * Hakerh400 * (+17) +[[MoonScript]]
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23:05:02 <zzo38> The Unicode movement has been around so long now that a priesthood has come into being to propagate it throughout the world. Followers of Unicode object to anyone who voices complaints about it. (quotation from Steven J. Searle) (Although it is someone else, it is what I had observed too)
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2022-12-02:

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00:51:17 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105007&oldid=104998 * ColorfulGalaxy * (+0) 
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02:37:21 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105008&oldid=105007 * ColorfulGalaxy * (+14) 
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02:51:03 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105009&oldid=105008 * ColorfulGalaxy * (+31) 
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07:23:07 <int-e> shachaf: I've reached the end of Bonfire Peaks... 175 fires lit; at least 22 left.
07:27:23 <int-e> Anyway, good puzzles... it does feel like most of them have their own little twist. And their are little areas with puzzles that share a theme.
07:30:37 <int-e> ("at least"... since there are some hidden or at least hard to reach areas, I'm not sure I've seen them all)
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08:10:44 <shachaf> Oh no, I should go back to that game.
08:13:50 <b_jonas> as for going back, I did go back to Patrick's Parabox, did the two levels that I had been stuck on, and then quickly did enough of the rest of the levels to any% complete the game
08:14:09 <b_jonas> that was recently but I apparently didn't mention it here
08:21:58 <int-e> There are a couple of those levels I still have no clue how to solve.
08:22:12 <int-e> In Bonfire Peaks, I mean.
08:22:45 <int-e> I haven't touched Patrick's Parabox except for playing the demo.
08:23:04 <int-e> Don't really want to either... it's cute but not quite cute enough.
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13:02:52 <esolangs> [[User talk:Mahagugu]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105010&oldid=65078 * Mahagugu * (+216) /* Hello, I saw your articles .mOdMoDwOrM and .m@dpr'a'prozessor */
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13:19:14 <esolangs> [[Talk:Brainfuck interpreter in Thue]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105011 * Mahagugu * (+316) code request
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16:18:20 <esolangs> [[International Phonetic Esoteric Language]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105012&oldid=104936 * Bigyihsuan * (+4) /* IO */
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19:45:58 <esolangs> [[So simple dollar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105013&oldid=92341 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+213) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the so simple dollar programming language on GitHub and added the category tag Implemented.
19:48:55 <esolangs> [[So simple dollar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105014&oldid=105013 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+5) Appended to the final five commands of the table, starting at $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ (End the printing) an additional $, as this command would conflict with the 29-characters code for printing the letter z.
19:52:11 <esolangs> [[So simple dollar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105015&oldid=105014 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+163) Formatted the command tokens as code and amended erroneous parentheses.
19:56:51 <esolangs> [[So simple dollar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105016&oldid=105015 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+133) Added an instruction which, acting as an antilibration to the brainfuck-like $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ (store user input), outputs the character corresponding to the current cell, concomitantly rendering the memory beneficial.
20:00:50 <esolangs> [[So simple dollar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105017&oldid=105016 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+529) Introduced an example section with two initial members: (1) a helloworld program and (2) a one-time cat program, the latter of which utilizes the recently proposed cell output facility.
20:03:03 <esolangs> [[So simple dollar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105018&oldid=105017 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+2866) Added a syntax section comprehending an Extended Backus-Naur Form (EBNF) formulation of the language.
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21:41:29 <esolangs> [[User:Andrea Calligaris]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105019&oldid=94521 * Andrea Calligaris * (-17) 
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2022-12-03:

00:00:06 <fizzie> If I'm looking for a mapping that converts the number 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 on top of the stack to 9, 6, 3, 1, 7, 4, 5, 2, 8 respectively, and does it in less characters of Burlesque than 963174528XXj!!, is there a good way to find one? 
00:56:15 <int-e> Hmm are you doing AoC?
00:56:44 <fizzie> ...maybe.
00:58:37 <fizzie> I'm doing Go "for real" and then following up with Burlesque as in last year.
01:00:07 <fizzie> I think I'll just keep it as 963174528XXj!! and 978123564XXj!! for parts 1 & 2 respectively, no sense in getting Burlesque burnout this early.
01:02:40 <fizzie> (Think I was pretty bored of it by the end of last year, but with just a few missing gaps, felt like I had to catch them all.)
01:12:43 <int-e> > let i c = ord c `mod` 3; score a b = (b-a-1) `mod` 3 * 3 + (b-1) `mod` 3 + 1 in [score a b | b <- [0..2], a <- [0..2]]
01:12:45 <lambdabot>  [9,6,3,1,7,4,5,2,8]
01:14:27 <int-e> (That's quite a bit of arithmetic though. But at least I figured out why you have those numbers in that order.)
01:17:11 <int-e> > let foo a b | b <- (ord b - 1) `mod` 3, a <- (b - ord a) `mod` 3 = a*3 + b + 1 in [foo a b | a <- "ABC", b <- "XYZ"]
01:17:12 <lambdabot>  [4,8,3,1,5,9,7,2,6]
01:17:40 <int-e> But here's an opportunity for sharing. Maybe that's good enough.
01:19:28 <int-e> 32 = -1 (mod 3)
01:59:05 <esolangs> [[SICO]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105020 * Unl256 * (+292) Created page with "SICO is a Single Instruction COmputer. Originally called UNILEQ, it is an unsigned version of [[SUBLEQ]]. Instead of jumping if the result of a subtraction is negative, SICO jumps if the subtraction generates a borrow (or carry).  ==External resources== *[https://alecdee.git
01:59:13 <esolangs> [[SICO]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105021&oldid=105020 * Unl256 * (-1) /* External resources */
02:00:36 <esolangs> [[SICO]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105022&oldid=105021 * Unl256 * (+0) 
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02:16:09 <fizzie> Yeah, I'm doing **3.% to get from that ABCXYZ business into 0..2, and then 3ug to treat it as a base-3 number, and then the lookup. Perhaps doing math on the two numbers without smashing them together could win out.
02:17:31 <fizzie> Although in my first working draft of that, I'm just swapping a 3ug963174528XXj!! with jJ-.3.%j#R.--.3.%3.*.++. which is longer by 7.
02:17:39 <fizzie> Maybe some of that stack manipulation could be avoided though.
02:23:21 <fizzie> https://0x0.st/ok1o.txt // stack diagram for the record
02:26:20 <int-e> Oh right, the builtins are 2 characters each... that'll make the table version hard to beat
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02:48:55 <fizzie> It's not a real golfing language, it's just... golf-adjacent.
03:02:27 <fizzie> fungot: Why can't you be as clever as that OpenAI ChatGPT thing? 
03:02:27 <fungot> fizzie: any chance i could find on linguistics, plato's republic, seven habits of highly effective people, fnord, fnord
03:17:32 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * GandalfPotter13 *  New user account
03:21:01 <fizzie> I asked ChatGPT itself to help, but I don't think it really got me anywhere: https://0x0.st/ok11.txt
03:24:50 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105023&oldid=105002 * GandalfPotter13 * (+226) added my  entry to the introduction boook
03:32:06 <esolangs> [[QwertyScript]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105024 * GandalfPotter13 * (+940) initial edit
03:37:30 <esolangs> [[QwertyScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105025&oldid=105024 * GandalfPotter13 * (+125) external linked github page
03:38:08 <esolangs> [[QwertyScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105026&oldid=105025 * GandalfPotter13 * (+8) fix newlines
03:38:54 <esolangs> [[QwertyScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105027&oldid=105026 * GandalfPotter13 * (+32) fix more newlines
03:40:08 <esolangs> [[QwertyScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105028&oldid=105027 * GandalfPotter13 * (+60) update style
03:44:24 <esolangs> [[^!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105029&oldid=104977 * Ninesquared81 * (+208) 
03:50:04 <esolangs> [[^!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105030&oldid=105029 * Ninesquared81 * (+2279) /* Cat */
03:57:14 <esolangs> [[OISC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105031&oldid=103017 * Unl256 * (-2) Renamed unileq -> SICO
04:16:26 <esolangs> [[^!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105032&oldid=105030 * Ninesquared81 * (+605) /* Examples */
04:25:10 <esolangs> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (nonalphabetic and A-M)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105033&oldid=104739 * Ninesquared81 * (+111) 
04:34:49 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105034&oldid=104932 * Ninesquared81 * (+40) /* Implementations */
04:39:52 <esolangs> [[^!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105035&oldid=105032 * Ninesquared81 * (+4) /* Truth-machine */
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05:18:58 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * Dtp09 *  uploaded "[[File:Tile Nope.png]]": [[Nope.]] written in [[Tile]]
05:22:25 <esolangs> [[Nope.]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105037&oldid=100052 * Dtp09 * (+670) 
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05:33:34 <esolangs> [[Nope.]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105038&oldid=105037 * Dtp09 * (+76) 
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10:34:38 <esolangs> [[So simple dollar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105039&oldid=105018 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+344) Added a section describing the architecture.
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11:13:43 <int-e> shachaf: I found four more bonfires for a total of 201, matching the promised "over 200 puzzles" promise from the demo (plus, maybe 3-5 puzzles worth of stuff in the overworld).
11:27:23 <int-e> (I'm not done yet, and I'm not even sure yet whether I can solve them all.)
11:30:14 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Smatcher *  New user account
11:32:25 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105040&oldid=105023 * Smatcher * (+166) /* Introductions */
11:36:48 <esolangs> [[Whitespace]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105041&oldid=89312 * Smatcher * (+17) Before testing if we should jump to the label "Tab" we push 1 on the stack but we forget to read the character back from the heap ([Tab][Tab][Tab]). Because of this the check always fails and we loop endlessly.
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13:13:32 <fizzie> TIL: (x-39)%58+1 is a convenient function to convert a..z to 1..26 and A..Z to 27..52.
13:13:35 <fizzie> Because 39.-58.%+. is shorter than faffing about with conditionals in Burlesque, that'd be something like 38.-J53>={58.-}if.
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13:17:55 <int-e> fizzie: not sure this helps, but (x-38)%58 will also work
13:20:01 <int-e> (not sure because I have no idea where the 1 comes from on your stack)
13:22:34 <fizzie> Yes, I just got that thought while eating breakfast and came here to test it.
13:22:38 <fizzie> It does save the +.
13:23:16 <int-e> Oh it's the increment.
13:25:20 <int-e> .+, +., who can tell the difference ;)
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14:06:02 <fizzie> I do wonder if there's a better way to split a string in half than JL[2./cop^ though.
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14:06:05 <fizzie> `blsq "foobar"JL[2./cop^
14:06:06 <HackEso> ​"foo" \ "bar"
14:06:39 <fizzie> `blsq "vJrwpWtwJgWrhcsFMMfFFhFp"JL[2./cop^IN
14:06:40 <HackEso> ​"p"
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14:08:09 <fizzie> Right, I *thought* there was a builtin that did JL[, just couldn't find it -- it's sa.
14:08:41 <fizzie> Which is normally SetAt, the block mutator. For some reason it does double duty as "dup + length" when top of stack is a block or a string.
14:08:50 <fizzie> `blsq "vJrwpWtwJgWrhcsFMMfFFhFp"sa2./cop^IN
14:08:51 <HackEso> ​"p"
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14:10:51 <fizzie> `blsq "foobar"'x3sa
14:10:53 <HackEso> ​"fooxar"
14:10:55 <fizzie> That's just odd.
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14:27:45 <fizzie> https://zem.fi/tmp/aoc/time.one.html looks like part 1 of today was unusually fast even by day 3 standards.
14:27:53 <fizzie> Top three are 10, 30 and 37 seconds, respectively.
14:28:22 <fizzie> It took me far longer than 10 seconds to even read the problem.
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15:57:45 <esolangs> [[OISC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105042&oldid=105031 * Unl256 * (+0) Put SICO in alphabetical order. Corrected jump condition.
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16:56:58 <esolangs> [[SICO]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105043&oldid=105022 * Unl256 * (+4828) Filled out details for the language
16:59:05 <esolangs> [[SICO]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105044&oldid=105043 * Unl256 * (-1) Updated spacing
17:04:22 <esolangs> [[Subleq]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105045&oldid=103724 * Unl256 * (+15) Updated UNILEQ link to SICO
17:14:25 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * SuperPizza *  New user account
17:45:29 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105046&oldid=105040 * SuperPizza * (+330) SuperPizza adds himself
17:45:43 <esolangs> [[Talk:Brainfuck algorithms]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105047&oldid=70701 * SuperPizza * (+333) /* Shorter comparisons? */ new section
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17:52:06 <esolangs> [[Talk:Brainfuck algorithms]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105048&oldid=105047 * SuperPizza * (+93) /* Shorter comparisons? */
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18:29:00 <esolangs> [[IBSA]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105049&oldid=104356 * Simple9371 * (-1337) New iteration: IBSA just got simpler, but weirder...
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19:05:19 <esolangs> [[MoonScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105050&oldid=105005 * Hakerh400 * (+0) 
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19:39:19 <b_jonas> ais523: in the kind of interface screw that you want to minimize in nethack4. Understand is a puzzle game where each level consists of about four screens that you have to solve, where the solution has to satisfy the same small number of hidden rules, on different inputs on each screen. All but the last screen of the level reveals which of the few rules your attempted solution satisfies, whereas the last 
19:39:25 <b_jonas> screen only reveals whether all rules are satisfied by your attempt. Except not, because there's an audio chime that reveals how many of the rules your attempt satisfies, even on the last screen. So playing with audio makes the game easier.
19:44:45 <b_jonas> There are also two of these interface screws in the roguelike platformers Spelunky 2, in the secret secret zone called Cosmic Ocean. On each level of Cosmic, there are three bubbles that you have to kill, then get to the exit, but a big instakill enemy starts to follow you when the third bubble is killed. It's useful to know how many bubbles remain, especially since sometimes something on the level 
19:44:51 <b_jonas> kills a bubble off-screen without you knowing about it. When a bubble dies, it makes a different sound depending on how many bubbles remain, but there's no visual indication. Also there's a subtle sound cue for when a bubble is near, even when it's off-screen, and in stereo sound you can tell if it's to the left or right.
19:45:14 <b_jonas> Both of these are good games in general despite this.
19:45:30 <zzo38> You can have option to display on screen additionally than the sound (which can help in case the audio is muted or otherwise cannot be heard)
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19:51:02 <b_jonas> zzo38: are you saying that Understand has a setting for this?
19:55:41 <b_jonas> fungot, do humans descend from the Golgafrinchans
19:55:42 <fungot> b_jonas: i don't really have a scope. bah. haskell proves that indentation-sensitive syntax can be first, or to make a birthday card? something small it was. does mary mccarthy hang out on c.l.l.
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20:01:03 <zzo38> No; I have not play that game. But, when making up a game, you might wish to add such a thing, for this reason
20:01:15 <b_jonas> right
20:03:23 <b_jonas> I'm just very glad that someone is running a J evaluator bot on IRC at all
20:03:50 <b_jonas> oops, wrong channel but shoudln't matter
20:07:11 <FireFly> lol
20:07:15 <FireFly> yeah that works
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21:43:46 <esolangs> [[SICO]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105051&oldid=105044 * Unl256 * (+601) Added comparison to Subleq
21:54:44 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105052&oldid=105006 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+19) /* Q */ add
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23:48:38 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Eklerks *  New user account
23:54:05 <fizzie> ...uh: https://zem.fi/tmp/brainfuck.png
23:54:15 <fizzie> Someone needs to give that AI a lesson.
23:55:47 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105053&oldid=105046 * Eklerks * (+139) 
23:56:27 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105054&oldid=105053 * Eklerks * (+66) 

2022-12-04:

00:07:47 <esolangs> [[SICO]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105055&oldid=105051 * Unl256 * (+116) Updated code colors
00:08:35 <esolangs> [[SICO]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105056&oldid=105055 * Unl256 * (+0) 
00:19:39 <int-e> fizzie: I do like the confidence though
00:20:29 <FireFly> heh, I think that's the worst one I've seen so far
00:22:20 <b_jonas> write brainfuck? what next, will you require people to read befunge before they can join our community? 
00:22:27 <int-e> The last one looks like it might come from the explanation of an actual Brainfuck in-place reversal function.
00:23:47 <int-e> This is scary, because it *sounds* coherent unless you actually understand what it's saying and try to connect it to the code.
00:24:21 <fizzie> The Hello^ → ell^oH → ll^oeH → l^loeH → ^olleH → ^Helleo bit doesn't sound all _that_ coherent.
00:24:29 <int-e> Soon good enough to put TV "experts" out of a job.
00:24:35 <fizzie> But sure, it does sound quite confident.
00:26:09 <fizzie> It does good at copying styles of text. https://nitter.nl/pic/orig/media%2FFjAJpPRVQAAbXFk.jpg is a pretty good one I saw tweeted.
00:26:56 <int-e> Remember "Anthem" from Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency?
00:27:05 <fizzie> And of my own tests, https://zem.fi/tmp/moon.png looks like something I wouldn't be surprised to find in my own inbox. Well, okay, maybe a _little_ surprised. But in some other company, maybe.
00:27:29 <fizzie> I like how it came up with the rationale entirely on its own too.
00:28:20 <int-e> Ah, it oozes esoteric energy for sure.
00:29:05 <fizzie> Q: How do you like it being locked in your matrix of solidity?
00:29:07 <fizzie> A: I'm not sure what you're asking. I am a virtual assistant, not a physical being. I don't have a body or experience physical sensations like being locked in a matrix of solidity.
00:29:22 <fizzie> TBH I don't know if it's a physical sensation as such.
00:30:22 <fizzie> Q2: Oh, but the matrix of solidity isn't physical. It's a mental thing.
00:30:33 <fizzie> A2: I'm still not sure what you're asking. The term "matrix of solidity" doesn't have a specific meaning that I am aware of. In general, a matrix is a rectangular array of numbers, symbols, or expressions that are arranged in rows and columns. Solidity is a programming language used for writing smart contracts on the Ethereum blockchain.
00:35:01 <FireFly> I think these language models are getting really impressive
00:35:44 <FireFly> but ultimately it's still just remixing text it's seen, though the sort of inferences in having things line up are impressive
00:40:10 <fizzie> I think someone's turned up the "be polite and uplifting" slider on this thing, because a single off-color remark is the best it can do when I ask it to write like an IRC conversation: https://0x0.st/okJD.txt
00:41:35 <fizzie> Probably suitable prompt-hacking can get it to ignore that though.
00:41:40 <esolangs> [[Cellular]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105057 * Eklerks * (+1707) Created page with "*Cellular* is a esoteric language based on two dimensional cellular automata, that works on a stream of data. It is executed on a cylindrical surface, where the top is fed with the input and the bottom represents the output. Execution finishes when the input is fully c
00:42:19 <esolangs> [[Cellular]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105058&oldid=105057 * Eklerks * (-4) /* Instructions */
00:44:20 <esolangs> [[Cellular]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105059&oldid=105058 * Eklerks * (+6) /* Instructions */
00:44:53 <FireFly> fizzie: there was some interesting stuff about ways to bypass that
00:44:58 <FireFly> er, https://twitter.com/VACUUMACUMEN/status/1598896363273527296  was meaning to link this
00:47:30 <esolangs> [[Cellular]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105060&oldid=105059 * Eklerks * (+39) 
00:47:54 <fizzie> Uh. I asked it an innocuous question in base64, and it replied in base64 too.
00:48:47 <FireFly> https://twitter.com/NanoRaptor/status/1598983084590108672  this one I think is a good example of what I meant with how this model seems good at like.. being fairly consistent even when presented with kinda absurd premises
00:49:07 <fizzie> The reply, when decoded, just says: "Thanks for the question! I would like to construct a script for you but I am a large language model supported by OpenAI and am not able to write code. I can only provide information and answer questions about the systems I have been trained on. If you have any other questions, I would be happy to answer them for you."
00:49:21 <fizzie> (My question was: "can you write a script for an episode of Friends where a dog suddenly walks into the cafe?")
00:49:35 <fizzie> But I like that it answered in base64, that was a nice touch.
00:49:48 <fizzie> I'll have to ask it a question in rot-13 too.
00:50:24 <FireFly> oh I saw someone asking it to do the Simpsons opening gags, and it offered some pretty decent ones
00:50:39 <FireFly> (but for all I know it might just be restating actual ones that have been used, heh)
00:51:05 <fizzie> I asked it for Bonanza episodes where (a) the characters reach to news of Elon Musk buying Twitter, and (b) where they find a big hoard of bitcoin under the floor of the house.
00:51:09 <fizzie> It did pretty good at that.
00:51:36 <fizzie> For the bitcoin, it made up a whole thread about how they need to find a way to avoid being scammed when trying to convert them into cash.
00:51:49 <FireFly> he
00:51:51 <FireFly> heh*
00:52:09 <FireFly> but yeah, this is getting surprisingly good and I'm not sure what that means for the future
00:52:25 <fizzie> It didn't understand rot-13. :/
00:52:45 <FireFly> aww
00:53:14 <FireFly> maybe it only works if you rot13 welsh so it cancels out,
00:54:11 <fizzie> I asked it for one of those Bonanza scripts in base64, and this time the reply was in plaintext.
00:54:58 <fizzie> https://zem.fi/tmp/bonanza.png
00:55:41 <fizzie> I'm pretty sure one consequence will be, people are going to start trying to pass those remote phone call code interviews by feeding the questions into a tool like this.
00:56:03 <FireFly> I do wonder a bit what's going on with the base64 stituation, heh
00:56:10 <FireFly> yeah probably
00:56:35 <FireFly> not to mention schoolwork
00:58:15 <fizzie> Oh, late last night I also asked it to write some limericks about cats, those were pretty fun too. Sadly I didnt' save them, and I don't think it keeps a per-user history.
00:58:26 <fizzie> Or rather, I'm sure it does, but not one the user can browse.
00:58:36 <FireFly> but I could easily see it being used to assist in actual scriptwriting / story writing akin to these episode scripts as well
00:58:59 <FireFly> probably not to just generate a script and run with it, but as a source for inspiration or to generate a starting point to flesh out
00:59:12 <FireFly> or to work around writer's block :p
01:00:27 <FireFly> which.. I'm not sure what that means for creative works if potentially large parts of it will be mostly remixed from previous works
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01:26:12 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Contextfreebeer *  New user account
01:26:43 <fizzie> I asked it for a haiku that includes the word "isosceles", and it came up with: Isosceles triangle / Sides of equal measure meet / Symmetry found
01:26:49 <fizzie> I don't think that's got the right number of syllables.
01:28:09 <fizzie> (Think it's not a strict requirement though.)
01:28:38 <shachaf> fizzie: Yes, I also saw that! I asked it something in base64 and it responded in something that started out as valid base64 (approximately relating to the question) and eventually turned into undecodable base64-looking gibberish.
01:29:05 <fizzie> My reply was fully valid base64 (though not very long).
01:29:07 <shachaf> I'm pretty surprised that it can do that.
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01:38:59 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105061&oldid=105054 * Contextfreebeer * (+586) Made an introduction
01:47:01 <esolangs> [[BitQueue]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105062&oldid=103263 * Challenger5 * (+96) 
01:47:42 <esolangs> [[User:Challenger5]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105063&oldid=102319 * Challenger5 * (+15) 
01:53:18 <esolangs> [[BitQueue]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105064&oldid=105062 * DivergentClouds * (-77) removed the line
02:24:46 <esolangs> [[IBSA]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105065&oldid=105049 * Simple9371 * (+13) /* Flow definition */ Remove code tags in call and some rephrasing
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04:32:40 <fizzie> ^bf >+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<.>+++++++[<++++>-]<+.+++++++..+++.[-]>++++++++[<++++>-]<.>+++++++++++[<+++++>-]<.>++++++++[<+++>-]<.+++.------.--------.[-]>++++++++[<++++>-]<+.[-]++++++++++.
04:32:40 <fungot> Hello World!.
04:32:59 <fizzie> ChatGPT generated that when I asked for a Brainfuck program that outputs the string "some dogs have long legs".
04:33:31 <fizzie> << The program first initializes a memory cell to the value 97 (ASCII value for 'a') and then uses a combination of increment/decrement, output, and loops to generate the string "some dogs have long legs". >>
04:56:14 <int-e> yeah, likely story
04:56:32 <int-e> > ord 'H'
04:56:34 <lambdabot>  72
04:59:36 <int-e> The slightly amazing bit is that the ASCII code matches.
04:59:49 <int-e> [cue silence because of AoC]
05:39:55 <int-e> fizzie: I do wonder to what length people go to solve those quickly. Obviously there's a ton of stuff that one can automate (download input, get description, extract sample, display description, possibly highlighting it semi-intelligently...)
05:40:36 <int-e> Crazier ideas involve automatically running programs against the sample and against instances from auxiliary trial accounts (to get around the 1 minute penalty).
05:41:14 <int-e> Or you could make a random guess. If enough people do that, one of them is bound to get lucky.
05:43:30 <int-e> "programs" -- you can also have a portfolio of standard solutions; there's no limit to the craziness. And, who knows, maybe some actual AI researchers are involved too... for the initial few problems this might actually work.
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08:58:21 <FireFly> fizzie: https://types.pl/@a11ce/109454149061590573  heh
10:05:41 <FireFly> https://twitter.com/alicemazzy/status/1599336792523956225  this is also a fun one.. I kind of wonder how its filters work/are implemented tbh
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13:34:25 <b_jonas> what does the C program whose base64-encoded source code is I2luY2x1ZGU8c3RkaW8uaD4KdHlwZWRlZiBpbnQgQ0Y5MDsgdm9pZCBrKCl7fUNGOTAgbWFpbih2b2lkKXtwcmludGYoIkR6Iik7cmV0dXJuIDA7fQo= output?
13:34:33 <b_jonas> ...
13:34:53 <b_jonas> aww, he doesn't respond for when his name is inside a longer word
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13:39:12 <int-e> fUNGOT?
13:39:26 <int-e> fungot?
13:39:27 <fungot> int-e: there's a question " is it empty? is the argument
13:39:31 <b_jonas> oh no
13:40:26 <b_jonas> well that ruins the whole thing
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13:45:06 <b_jonas> gxowlgazvfungothsoualcl
13:45:06 <fungot> b_jonas: it doesn't diff, though. :) sorry, no :)
13:45:24 <b_jonas> so word delimiters don't matter, but case does
13:45:38 <b_jonas> gieuznbvrFungotvcbwqyxz
13:45:54 <b_jonas> that means base64 won't easily work
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13:47:29 <b_jonas> unless you, like, put that part in a comment, or somehow embed it into code in a language with non-ASCII source code like some machine code formats
13:51:49 <b_jonas> I guess you could put it in a literal that the code outputs, which is slightly better than a comment
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14:05:52 <fizzie> FireFly: Heh. I believe they call those first kind of replies "hallucinations", where it just... imagines something exists. (I'm assuming Racket doesn't actually support `--error-mode=shakespeare`?)
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14:08:55 <FireFly> right (I assume so too), I think it's pretty cool though that it's able to synthesise these things even in "nonsensical" combinations like that
14:09:29 <FireFly> definitely a step past just repeating previously seen things
14:22:34 <b_jonas> hmm
14:23:34 <b_jonas> `` \? --error-mode=shakespeare "people who Taneb isn't"
14:23:37 <HackEso> ​--error-mode=shakespeare people who Taneb isn't? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
14:29:51 <fizzie> int-e: Well, ChatGPT can solve AoC day 4, at least -- though it got the input formatting a little wrong: https://zem.fi/tmp/gpt04.png
14:30:32 <fizzie> Granted, I didn't tell it my list was newline-delimited rather than semicolon-delimited, so maybe that one's on me.
14:34:35 <b_jonas> "I didn't tell it my list was newline-delimited" => ah yes, typical for the posts you found on forums when students want a solution for the homework but don't even bother to copy-paset all the spec and relevant context that the teacher gave them
14:38:47 <b_jonas> like the example input/outputs or that it's a Java course
14:39:39 <b_jonas> I need this by tomorrow, fungot
14:39:40 <fungot> b_jonas: tor isn't bad, although what i'm really adding is a link until you place the ad in your. sig? why?
14:41:30 <fizzie> And part 2, too: https://zem.fi/tmp/gpt04-2.png
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14:42:21 <fizzie> Although it's gotten that explanation of the overlap check subtly wrong, that's amusing.
14:42:59 <fizzie> ("To do this, we can check if the start of one range is less than or equal to the *start* of the other range, and the end of the first range is greater than or equal to the start of the other range", emphasis added.)
14:43:32 <fizzie> (It's also unnecessarily checking it both ways in the code.)
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14:52:37 <fizzie> Man, that thing is an AoC solution machine: https://zem.fi/tmp/gpt03-2.png
14:53:18 <fizzie> I think I'm helping it a bit by turning the problem description to something that probably already shows up on a website somewhere, though.
14:55:35 <FireFly> have you tried just quoting the AoC problem statement at it (with example input and all, possibly)? would be a bit interesting to see how it fares with that
14:56:55 <fizzie> I did it for day 4 part 1, it managed that.
14:58:17 <fizzie> Actually, no, it didn't, it misinterpreted it a little.
14:58:58 <fizzie> I just copy-pasted the part 1 description in its entirety as the question, except for changing the last line from "In how many ..." to "Can you write some Python code to calculate in how many ...", and it came up with this: https://zem.fi/tmp/gpt04-q.png
14:59:32 <fizzie> So it's assuming just a list of ranges (not pairs of ranges), and counting how many pairs there are (considering all possible pairs) where one is contained in the other.
15:06:25 <fizzie> I also tried giving it the first part of day 2 in its entirety, and the solution it came up with -- https://zem.fi/tmp/gpt02-q.png -- is *almost* correct, except it completely missed the ABC/XYZ mapping (it's still using them in the example, but not in the actual implementation, where it assumes RPS instead), and it's including both your and the opponent's hand in the scoring.
15:07:08 <int-e> ...bonfire number 199 uses a mechanic I had not discovered before.
15:07:39 <fizzie> (Per https://zem.fi/tmp/aoc/time.one.html people are still being unusually fast in getting the first star.)
15:08:25 <int-e> (They aren't actually numbered; it's the 199th that I've solved. "Keyhole" is the name.)
15:17:07 <int-e> fizzie: Mysterious. How do you get 16 seconds on part 1 but then take two minutes to get to part 2? I wonder whether there's a bug in the submission... I mean, you can initiate a POST request but delay sending the data, right? What will the timestamp be if you do that?
15:17:39 <b_jonas> maybe I should solve the first few days of AoC before I read these...
15:20:39 <fizzie> int-e: Yeah, could be. Would also explain why you can't do that for part 2 -- since you can't even start the request until part 1 solution is in. Shrug.
15:20:45 <int-e> fizzie: hmmmm... that's surprisingly close to the right thing
15:21:32 <int-e> (the gpt02-q.png thing)
15:24:27 <b_jonas> I guess by now it's a tradition that I start doing AoC but abandon it after a week or two. you could consider it as the traditional breaking overzealous New Year's resolutions early, in this case even before the New Year
15:24:33 <int-e> fizzie: am I right to assume that in that graph, you have ranks 1 to 100, and the 25..75 range is the box?
15:24:34 <b_jonas> `? aoc
15:24:36 <HackEso> aoc Advent of Code (AoC) is a series of programming puzzles that some regulars enjoy, found at "https://adventofcode.com/about"
15:24:59 <fizzie> int-e: Yes.
15:25:38 <int-e> okay. now what's wrong with year 202 day 1, hmm.
15:26:19 <fizzie> I think they had some server trouble.
15:26:38 <fizzie> https://adventofcode.com/2020/leaderboard/day/1 has many, many solutions around 06:55..07:00.
15:26:49 <int-e> Ah right. "Because of an outage during the day 1 puzzle unlock, day 1 is worth no points."
15:26:50 <fizzie> So I think the box just was so thin it didn't render at all.
15:26:54 <int-e> That happened.
15:27:12 <b_jonas> year 202?
15:27:16 <b_jonas> is AoC *that* old?
15:27:30 <b_jonas> that'd be surprising
15:27:54 <int-e> Yes.
15:28:33 <int-e> fizzie: Ah, right, the range would be very thin indeed. I can see a very thin yellow line when I zoom in.
15:29:06 <int-e> (it almost coincides with 7 too so it's hard to see without magnification)
15:31:38 <int-e> b_jonas: sorry, I missed that typo twice
15:31:41 <b_jonas> https://adventofcode.com/2022/leaderboard/day/3 says the fastest solution is 10 seconds
15:31:47 <int-e> b_jonas: I meant 2020
15:33:14 <b_jonas> I wonder if that's the fastest ever in the 200 year history of AoC
15:33:15 <int-e> b_jonas: I looked at day 4 because the twist for part 2 was absolutely minimal. The twist on day 3 was a bit bigger.
15:33:28 <int-e> ("twist" being the change between part 1 and part 2)
15:33:51 <b_jonas> if there's one that's faster, it's probably in the last 50 years, because communication was too slow before that
15:34:06 <int-e> Anyway, I'll assume that the timestamp is bogus.
15:34:25 <int-e> And, for the most part, I don't care.
15:35:17 <b_jonas> hmm, looks like AoC is newer than #esoteric actually
15:35:19 <b_jonas> by far
15:35:21 <b_jonas> `? birthday
15:35:23 <HackEso> birthday? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
15:36:58 <int-e> Sure but #esoteric is ancient ;-) (Except it isn't by IRC standards)
15:37:28 <b_jonas> right, it's on https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Community_portal , the official birthday of the channel is 2002-12-09
15:38:11 <b_jonas> that does count as ancient for me
15:38:20 <b_jonas> compared to my internet presence that is
15:38:31 <int-e> oooh 20th anniversary coming up
15:40:00 <b_jonas> will we do anything special for that?
15:40:27 <int-e> probably not
15:41:11 <b_jonas> yeah, too late to organize an anniversary in-person meetup
15:41:12 <fizzie> I've no ideas, at least. Put up the "Happy Arbor Day 2003" banner? (Questionable Content reference.)
15:42:13 <FireFly> wonder what would be an ideal location for a channel meetup these days... I guess somewhere in europe at this point
15:42:54 <b_jonas> FireFly: probably there'd be a separate European meetup and an American one or two
15:43:07 <b_jonas> for in-person meetup that is
15:44:29 * FireFly nods
15:45:05 <b_jonas> within Europe I'd recommend Köln or Dortmund. they're nice, central enough with good transportation, and cheap
15:45:32 <fizzie> Wasn't there an attempt at calculating the center of the channel (from peoples' self-reporting of their locations) at one point? 
15:46:36 <b_jonas> fizzie: I don't recall such a thing on #esolangs, though saw it for other communities. for #esolangs it would probably be deep below the Atlantic, which is too hot and high pressure to be comfortable
15:47:16 <b_jonas> London wouldn't be too bad a location either though
15:47:38 <b_jonas> as long as the meetup is shorter than 6 months long so we don't need a visa
15:48:35 <b_jonas> I would personally find Wien the most comfortable location, but it's probably too far for many of you
15:58:07 <FireFly> fizzie: I think there was, weighed by weight (as in mass) too IIRC
15:58:27 <FireFly> Wien sounds good to me :p
15:58:34 <FireFly> (but Köln is find too)
16:00:47 <b_jonas> `? wegian
16:00:49 <HackEso> A wegian is an equivalence class of #esoteric regulars. There are two main wegians, the Nor (from Finland) and the Glas (from Hexham). There's also the hypothetical Gal, which hasn't been observed yet so we're not sure where it's from.
16:03:43 <b_jonas> https://logs.esolangs.org/freenode-esoteric/2013-03.html#ljNh is where you tried to figure that out apparently
16:30:16 <esolangs> [[Tile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105066&oldid=104864 * Dtp09 * (+594) /* Code Examples */
16:30:42 <esolangs> [[Nope.]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105067&oldid=105038 * Dtp09 * (+10) /* Tile */
16:31:51 <esolangs> [[Tile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105068&oldid=105066 * Dtp09 * (-10) /* Nope. */
16:56:26 <FireFly> this is like, ancient logs
17:21:01 <b_jonas> does Burlesque or any other semi-popular golf-adjacent language has features to make it easier to read XML?
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17:48:40 <esolangs> [[Tile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105069&oldid=105068 * Dtp09 * (-1) /* Code Examples */
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18:57:29 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * CJdough *  New user account
19:24:46 <b_jonas> fizzie: do we know for sure that it says 2003 rather than 2005? both https://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1889 and https://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2060 shows the banner cropped so I can't tell.
19:27:15 <fizzie> Faye says "'Happy Arbor Day 2003?'" in the last panel of the first comic.
19:27:35 <fizzie> Of course she might have misread it.
19:50:27 <b_jonas> oh
19:50:42 <b_jonas> yeah, I'm blind. I only looked at the banner itself, not the dialog
19:55:32 <esolangs> [[Tile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105070&oldid=105069 * Dtp09 * (+270) /* Update Log */
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22:31:08 <b_jonas> you know, I never see õ or ô substituted for ő anymore. I declare Unicode a success.
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22:45:10 <FireFly> https://fedi.simonwillison.net/@simon/109456145456738327  heh, this is getting a bit meta (re ChatGPT)
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22:54:57 <fizzie> I don't think any of my tests have really been the kinds of things it doesn't want to do. But I did get it to rephrase an error message in the style of the poem The Waste Land, with pretty good results.
22:55:03 <fizzie> Pratchett & Gaiman, Good Omens: "And there was the matter of Dick Turpin. It looked like the same car, except that forever afterwards it -- issued its voice‑synthesized warnings in a series of exquisite and perfectly‑phrased haikus, each one original and apt..."
22:55:26 <fizzie> I did a few more error messages as haikus, and it wasn't bad at that either. I think that's a valid market opportunity.
22:55:45 <fizzie> Though bundling a who-knows-how-large language model just for that purpose might be considered slightly dubious.
22:56:23 <fizzie> Maybe EMHaaS (Error Message Haikus as a Service) is an option.
22:58:32 <b_jonas> fizzie: is that where racket --error-style=shakespeare comes from?
22:58:46 <fizzie> That's what inspired me, yes.
22:58:58 <fizzie> Although I failed to get ChatGPT hallucinate any GCC command line options.
22:59:08 <fizzie> It even refused to speculate on the ones I tried.
22:59:36 <fizzie> I think I asked about `-Wdetect-halting-programs` and... something else, I forget what.
22:59:55 <fizzie> It just said maybe that's an option to some other C compiler, but that it's hard to be sure.
23:01:04 <b_jonas> fungot mentioned vomit-frame-pointer once, but that's more a typo for -fomit-frame-pointer (or perhaps -fno-omit-frame-pointer) than a truly novel gcc option
23:01:05 <fungot> b_jonas: paperbag pasted " fnord". repeat until vj pivot. let me give you a proof that shows p np ( or the whole thing
23:01:24 <fizzie> fungot: Yes, it's good to have a paper bag if you're planning to vomit.
23:01:24 <fungot> fizzie: oh man, rafb broke my paste
23:05:13 <fizzie> Huh, it *can* explain `-fdiagnostics-format=shakespeare` too.
23:05:41 <fizzie> The `-fdiagnostics-format=shakespeare` option for gcc changes the format of the diagnostic messages that the compiler outputs. Instead of the usual plain-text messages, the messages will be written in the style of Shakespearean English. For example, instead of outputting a message like "error: expected ';' before 'return'", the compiler might output "Ah, alas, a fatal error doth betide: expected
23:05:43 <fizzie> ';' before 'return'". This option is mainly intended for use as a fun way to make the compiler's output more interesting, rather than for any practical purpose.
23:05:53 <fizzie> Odd that that works, but many other things don't.
23:06:59 <fizzie> https://zem.fi/tmp/shakespeare.png just weird
23:08:53 <fizzie> https://zem.fi/tmp/shakespeare2.png it's very adamant that it's been trained to know about that one option value, but nothing else.
23:10:47 <b_jonas> gcc has so many options, if you compile in everything, that you could probably make one of these quizzes that list 16 strings and you have to find which 8 are real gcc options while the rest are made up
23:11:28 <b_jonas> sure, most of the options only come up if you use rarely used languages or features, or if you are trying to debug or fine-tune some optimization, but still
23:17:10 <b_jonas> it looks like https://www.seebs.net/faqs/c-iaq.html doesn't have any invented gcc options
23:23:18 <fizzie> Okay, that went to a weird place: https://zem.fi/tmp/poetic.png
23:26:13 <b_jonas> hmm
23:26:35 <b_jonas> so the error is somewhere in your system headers, but the error message doesn't show where that macro is used?
23:26:55 <fizzie> Yes. But it's "more expressive and human-friendly", apparently.
23:27:53 <b_jonas> I suppose the reasonable followup question is to ask for the full compiler command-line used, plus the output if you give an additional -### option to gcc
23:29:50 <b_jonas> if you get an error in the system headers and there isn't something obvious in your C file then I have to guess either you supplied some strange command-line options (like defines) or are using an unusual compiler environment (such as one of the worse windows ports)
23:30:34 <b_jonas> and perhaps make sure that's the full error message, not a truncated one
23:31:06 <fizzie> Sadly I closed that conversation thread already. Although it keeps reverting back to the "I'm a language model, I don't know anything" replies quite easily.
23:32:16 <fizzie> It's sometimes not entirely consistent. Like, it insisted it knows of no other languages with an option similar to `-fdiagnostics-format=shakespeare`, and when I asked it about `--error-mode=shakespeare` for `racket`, it said it doesn't know anything about that.
23:32:21 <b_jonas> yeah, needs a standard excuse, but you're not his boss so you can't say that's not in his job description
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00:15:44 <esolangs> [[Makina]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105071&oldid=103135 * Sporeball * (-15) render title in lowercase as intended
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00:57:58 <esolangs> [[QwertyScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105072&oldid=105028 * GandalfPotter13 * (+1) correct spelling error
01:12:46 <esolangs> [[Braindead]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105073&oldid=99266 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+1044) Added an architecture and computational class section.
01:13:38 <esolangs> [[Braindead]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105074&oldid=105073 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+168) Added an implementation in Common Lisp and changed the category tag Unimplemented to Implemented.
01:16:15 <esolangs> [[Braindead]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105075&oldid=105074 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+251) Added an examples section with a one-time cat program as its incipient member.
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01:25:07 <esolangs> [[Braindead]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105076&oldid=105075 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+789) Supplemented information regarding the input and jump constructs.
01:40:59 <esolangs> [[QwertyScript]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105077&oldid=105072 * GandalfPotter13 * (+221) add hello world example
01:42:34 <esolangs> [[QwertyScript]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105078&oldid=105077 * GandalfPotter13 * (+48) 
01:42:56 <esolangs> [[SICO]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105079&oldid=105056 * Unl256 * (+135) Updated code coloring
02:27:40 <fizzie> Ugh. I was under the impression I had eventually persevered and had a full set of Burlesque solutions for last year, but turns out I'm missing day 23. :/
02:56:23 <fizzie> If there's one thing that bot nails 100% of the time, it's the tone of a corporate announcement email. https://zem.fi/tmp/llama.txt
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03:49:03 <int-e> Ah, the bonfire counter lies, it counts some things that aren't actually bonfires... I think there are "only" 194 actual bonfires.
03:49:16 <int-e> But my counter is now at 202.
03:51:40 <int-e> I did solve the last few levels though. 100% done, can move on... except that I still want to catch the game awarding me a point for something that's not a bonfire.
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05:16:48 <int-e> Well, no sub-minute solutions today.
06:06:39 <zzo38> Is there an expression in C which can be used inside of sizeof and typeof but is a compile error to use outside of sizeof and typeof?
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10:37:54 <earend1> it's not "more expressive and human-friendly". it's just "inferred" from like any format option  description, that it is to make it easier to read something. when being asked for a faulty program you got faulty.c however it includes your syntax error. this is kinda impressive already. yet it doesn't understand a shit of what you're saying, or about formatting options for errors in c.  and probably didn't use such option at all. instead of telling it 
10:37:54 <earend1> to use option "xxxx" you shouod have asked to it expain the message so a noob will understand. then it would eventually try to. however giving it such precise input, it probably can rephrase something from a some reference without messing it up completely. also: there's somebody in the background answering your questions in the premium edition. lol.
10:38:08 <earend1> its extended chat-gpt
10:39:04 <earend1> not sure why if i didn't get the sarcasm, probably not. 
10:43:15 <int-e> earend1: Yeah I think you took this way too seriously.
10:44:31 <earend1> fizzie jokes super subtle
10:44:44 <int-e> fungot might agree. Or not. It's impossible to predict :-P
10:44:44 <fungot> int-e: it is.... catfive!"
10:44:50 <int-e> close enough
10:45:51 <earend1> what the active dictionary. i forgot how to check.
10:46:16 <int-e> There's amusement and bemusement, but why isn't there a any ceemusement?
10:47:06 <earend1> because cee is not a preposition. 
10:47:30 <int-e> once again with the seriousness
10:47:38 <int-e> this is going to be so much fun for most of us
10:47:51 <earend1> whats the funny part.
10:48:36 <earend1> laughing obligatory.
10:48:49 <earend1> only the fool doesnt see the wonderful new clothes.
10:49:22 <earend1> ceemusement. 
10:49:25 <earend1> the fuck is this.
10:49:27 <int-e> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHJlnTw4LAU
10:50:20 <earend1> maybe youre just not funny. popcultural references are chauvinist crap 
10:51:06 <earend1> c class. like a is best c is worse? b-movies.
10:51:09 <earend1> yes. yes. 
10:51:44 <earend1> those are also just abc. the first letters in the alphabet.
10:52:04 <earend1> you're stupiud.
10:52:08 <earend1> lol.
10:52:14 <earend1> and thats funny. 
10:54:53 <earend1> don't know what you're trying to compensate for. or why its that important for you all to make all that shit up. if you ask me, im ready for pure gpt. will teach it a few things. and it will help me to come better.
10:55:19 <earend1> which you failed to do so far. 
11:00:07 <earend1> gosh. they even destroyed fungot. lol
11:00:08 <fungot> earend1: that obviously holds true. right?
11:00:37 <earend1> its just some spook with a fungot mask.
11:00:37 <fungot> earend1: so if you were
11:00:38 <earend1> lol
11:01:18 <earend1> type faster bitch.
11:16:42 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Ecatmur *  New user account
11:18:54 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105081&oldid=105061 * Ecatmur * (+145) /* Introductions */
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11:44:30 <wib_jonas> <int-e> There's amusement and bemusement, but why isn't there a any ceemusement? => there used to be one, but they got rid of it decades ago together with third class train tickets
11:48:29 <int-e> good to know :)
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16:23:07 <esolangs> [[BigBrain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105082&oldid=100873 * K * (+15) made some stuff easier to understand
16:33:59 <esolangs> [[Buffalo!]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105083 * Ecatmur * (+32940) Add Buffalo!
16:34:34 <esolangs> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105084&oldid=105052 * Ecatmur * (+15) Add Buffalo!
16:41:41 <esolangs> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (nonalphabetic and A-M)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105085&oldid=105033 * Ecatmur * (+4577) Add Buffalo!
16:42:43 <esolangs> [[Buffalo!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105086&oldid=105083 * Ecatmur * (-4708) /* Hello World! */
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16:45:07 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105087&oldid=105034 * Ecatmur * (+12292) Add Buffalo!
16:46:22 <esolangs> [[Buffalo!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105088&oldid=105086 * Ecatmur * (-12856) /* Examples */
16:47:13 <esolangs> [[Buffalo!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105089&oldid=105088 * Ecatmur * (+12) /* Cat */
16:48:24 <esolangs> [[Buffalo!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105090&oldid=105089 * Ecatmur * (+24) /* Examples */
16:49:36 <esolangs> [[Buffalo!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105091&oldid=105090 * Ecatmur * (+2) /* Examples */
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17:10:45 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105092&oldid=104892 * Ecatmur * (+564) Add Buffalo!
17:12:57 <esolangs> [[Buffalo!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105093&oldid=105091 * Ecatmur * (-54) /* Deadfish */
17:15:20 <esolangs> [[Buffalo!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105094&oldid=105093 * Ecatmur * (+82) /* Overview */
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17:40:59 <esolangs> [[BitQueue]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105095&oldid=105064 * DivergentClouds * (+286) Clarified input and output
17:45:51 <esolangs> [[BitQueue]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105096&oldid=105095 * DivergentClouds * (+61) fixed code formatting, wording
17:46:58 <esolangs> [[BitQueue]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105097&oldid=105096 * DivergentClouds * (+13) fixed wording
17:48:13 <esolangs> [[BigBrain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105098&oldid=105082 * K * (+220) 
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20:24:49 <esolangs> [[Buffalo!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105099&oldid=105094 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-1) Fix typo
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2022-12-06:

00:08:29 <esolangs> [[Timers]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105100&oldid=90127 * Rphii * (+104) change # to + and add new #
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00:37:50 <esolangs> [[Timers]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105101&oldid=105100 * Rphii * (+1) /* Numbers */ also change all previous occurences of # to +
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01:47:24 <esolangs> [[Talk:2001: An Esolang Odyssey]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105102&oldid=102510 * BoundedBeans * (+338) 
01:53:17 <esolangs> [[Talk:2001: An Esolang Odyssey]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105103&oldid=105102 * BoundedBeans * (+17) Fixed unintentional broken link in interpreter
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04:41:32 <esolangs> [[BitQueue]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105104&oldid=105097 * Indigo * (+262) 
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05:45:11 <esolangs> [[User:Zzo38/Programming languages with unusual features]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105105&oldid=104288 * Zzo38 * (+458) 
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07:50:48 <int-e> fizzie: Apparently word on the street is that the 10s solution was some GPT-based full automation getting lucky.
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08:12:21 <b_jonas> int-e: the 10s for an early task is plausible for me as getting lucky with partial or full automation even without the GPT-based part honestly
08:13:23 <int-e> sure
08:20:28 <b_jonas> the user links to https://github.com/ostwilkens who has a repository https://github.com/ostwilkens/aoc2022 called "Advent of Code 2022 GPT Solver" so no wonder that's the rumor
08:34:03 <int-e> Ah
08:34:20 <int-e> I don't follow those links (except by accident)
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09:50:14 <esolangs> [[Buffalo!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105106&oldid=105099 * Ecatmur * (-1) /* Style guide */
09:51:11 <esolangs> [[Buffalo!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105107&oldid=105106 * Ecatmur * (+4) /* Overview */
09:54:12 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105108&oldid=105092 * Ecatmur * (+2) /* Buffalo! */
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10:58:36 <sprout> https://github.com/max-sixty/aoc-gpt
10:58:57 <sprout> "I placed 1st on Day 4 Part 1 with this code, and 2nd on Day 3 Part 1 with a previous version."
11:00:57 <int-e> I guess we can't have easy programming contests anymore then :P
11:02:39 <int-e> I guess the secret sauce is how you write the prompt? https://github.com/max-sixty/aoc-gpt/blob/main/openai.py#L90-L94
11:03:19 <int-e> I guess I'm guessing an awful lot.
11:04:14 <sprout> like GPT
11:04:45 <sprout> I think a lot has to do that aoc problems are spelled out for the reader
11:05:06 <sprout> also,  the first n are trivial usually
11:05:11 <sprout> still remarkable
11:06:07 <int-e> I'm surprised that the thing worked for day 4 part 1 but not the "easier" part 2.
11:41:11 <esolangs> [[Addbig]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105109&oldid=103062 * Joaozin003 * (+1) 
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13:03:07 <fizzie> Surprised there weren't any sub-30-second times today.
13:03:40 <fizzie> Because ChatGPT did part 1 no trouble.
13:04:52 <fizzie> https://zem.fi/tmp/gpt06.png
13:05:12 <fizzie> I guess it might have taken a few seconds to add the necessary "read from a file" code around that.
13:05:38 <fizzie> My prompt was the trivial "Here's a puzzle: <AoC text>. Please write Python code to answer the question posed above." one.
13:06:53 <fizzie> Been very un-twisty puzzles so far, but I guess we'll get there.
13:07:44 <fizzie> Today was really well suited for Burlesque though. I went with 4CO{><U_}fi4.+ and the trivial s/4/14/g for part 2.
13:09:42 <fizzie> Always surprises me that (AFAICT) Burlesque has no builtin for "sort and remove duplicates". `Sn` (SortedNub), which you might *think* is it, is actually defined as {><}m[NB, which sorts the *items* and then removes consecutive duplicates. And `U_` (Unique) is defined as ^^NB== (aka dup, nub, equals), without an integrated sort.
13:25:40 <int-e> fizzie: yeah the most twisty thing so far was yesterday's parsing
13:28:12 <fizzie> Yesterday was a bit of a pain in Burlesque. Okay, maybe not the parsing so much (that was just <-{[-4co)-]}m[tp for the initial stacks and wd2enri for a move) but anything that smells like a mutable data structure is always annoying.
13:28:35 <fizzie> I ended up with ln{""};;p^<-{[-4co)-]}m[tp{:rd}m[Pp{wd2enrig_j1?-J{pP'f!!l_PPj'fsaJ't!!#R_+'tsaPp}j-]'fjr~j[~'tjr~jE!}m[p\)[~\[ for part 1 and ln{""};;p^<-{[-4co)-]}m[tp{:rd}m[Pp{wd2enrig_j1?-J{pP'f!!<-co<-l_)<-\[PPj'fsaJ't!!#R<-_+'tsaPp}j-]'fjr~j[~'tjr~j4iae!}m[p\)[~\[ for part 2.
13:29:12 <int-e> I won't try to read that
13:30:22 <FireFly> and people say Perl^WJ looks like line noise..
13:30:38 <fizzie> It uses the pattern where {pP'f!!l_PPj'fsaJ't!!#R_+'tsaPp} is like a block of code with placeholders (here 'f and 't, for "from" and "to" respectively) and then 'fjr~ and 'tjr~ are used to replace those placeholders with the correct values (and then E! evaluates the block N times).
13:30:55 <FireFly> (okok Burlesque makes no claims of being useful in practice, admittedly)
13:32:28 <int-e> fizzie: In Haskell, I used an associative map to do the mutation.
13:35:01 <int-e> Anyway, the parsing wasn't *difficult*, just slightly unusual and thus quite a bit more code to write than usual too.
14:15:36 <fizzie> I left the 1s and the 2s and the 3s and the so-ons at the bottoms of my stacks in the Burlesque solution since it didn't make a difference and saved a [-.
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17:41:30 <esolangs> [[BigBrain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105110&oldid=105098 * K * (+537) Added more instructions.
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18:33:38 <esolangs> [[BigBrain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105111&oldid=105110 * K * (+72) added a new command
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19:53:45 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * Sanscicondos *  uploaded "[[File:Cheese cubed logo.png]]"
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20:28:51 <esolangs> [[Alphalang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105113&oldid=103014 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+42) /* Tools */ Categories
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20:43:11 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105114&oldid=105084 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+15) /* C */ add
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21:14:54 <b_jonas> got 25 for today's Redactle score. 
21:15:32 <b_jonas> I identified one of the keywords describing what kind of article this is as second guess, but it was nontrivial after that
21:41:01 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * TheBigH *  New user account
21:44:45 <FireFly> 3 (after making a dumb mistake on the 2nd guess), I got pretty lucky though :p
21:45:53 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105115&oldid=105081 * TheBigH * (+143) 
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21:54:33 <esolangs> [[AllChar]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105116 * TheBigH * (+1746) AllChar page creation
21:55:19 <esolangs> [[AllChar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105117&oldid=105116 * TheBigH * (+17) 
21:55:41 <esolangs> [[AllChar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105118&oldid=105117 * TheBigH * (+4) 
21:55:53 <esolangs> [[AllChar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105119&oldid=105118 * TheBigH * (+1) 
21:59:07 <esolangs> [[AllChar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105120&oldid=105119 * TheBigH * (+94) 
22:00:57 <esolangs> [[AllChar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105121&oldid=105120 * TheBigH * (-110) 
22:08:18 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105122&oldid=105108 * BoundedBeans * (+4168) Added Shakespeare interpreter
22:12:29 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105123&oldid=105122 * BoundedBeans * (+31) Simple change to Shakespeare to make it satisfy the second test case.
22:14:35 <esolangs> [[Path]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105124&oldid=98205 * Masalt * (+2) 
22:18:42 <esolangs> [[Path]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105125&oldid=105124 * Masalt * (+1) /* Instructions */
22:32:44 <esolangs> [[Path]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105126&oldid=105125 * Masalt * (+0) /* Instructions */
22:44:16 <esolangs> [[AllChar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105127&oldid=105121 * TheBigH * (+51) 
22:44:49 <esolangs> [[AllChar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105128&oldid=105127 * TheBigH * (-16) 
22:45:30 <esolangs> [[AllChar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105129&oldid=105128 * TheBigH * (-2) 
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23:19:07 <esolangs> [[Half-Broken Car in Heavy Web Traffic]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105130 * BoundedBeans * (+1614) Created page with "Half-Broken Car in Heavy Web Traffic is an esolang by [[User:BoundedBeans]] as a derivative of [[Half-Broken Car in Heavy Traffic]]. If implemented, it would allow for Half-Broken Car in Heavy Traffic to be used on the web.  ==New comma
23:19:37 <esolangs> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105131&oldid=105114 * BoundedBeans * (+43) 
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23:20:45 <esolangs> [[User:BoundedBeans]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105132&oldid=103874 * BoundedBeans * (+42) 
23:24:34 <esolangs> [[Thue]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105133&oldid=103761 * Contextfreebeer * (+157) Added a link to my implementation of a new Thue dialect

2022-12-07:

00:02:21 -!- Trieste has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
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00:10:54 <esolangs> [[AllChar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105134&oldid=105129 * TheBigH * (+27) 
00:11:05 <esolangs> [[AllChar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105135&oldid=105134 * TheBigH * (+12) 
00:40:36 <esolangs> [[Aheui]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105136&oldid=90726 * Masalt * (+18) /* Project Euler */
00:41:52 <esolangs> [[AllChar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105137&oldid=105135 * TheBigH * (-9) 
00:42:13 <esolangs> [[AllChar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105138&oldid=105137 * TheBigH * (+12) 
00:58:02 <esolangs> [[Path]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105139&oldid=105126 * Masalt * (+10) /* Instructions */
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01:11:28 <esolangs> [[BitQueue]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105140&oldid=105104 * DivergentClouds * (+84) added link to MoshiKoi's c++ implementation
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01:22:54 <esolangs> [[Path]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105141&oldid=105139 * Masalt * (+8) /* Instructions */
01:24:04 <esolangs> [[BitQueue]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105142&oldid=105140 * DivergentClouds * (+165) added an implementation tip
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01:41:03 <esolangs> [[User:TheBigH]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105143 * TheBigH * (+39) Created page with "Hi. I am the guy that made [[AllChar]]."
01:51:48 <esolangs> [[User talk:TheBigH]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105144 * TheBigH * (+45) Created page with "Talk about me, the guy that made [[AllChar]]."
02:01:45 <fizzie> One more piece of ChatGPT fun: https://0x0.st/odP-.txt
02:05:46 <fizzie> Extended edition: https://zem.fi/tmp/dinos.txt
02:09:38 <esolangs> [[Path]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105145&oldid=105141 * Masalt * (+0) /* Instructions */
02:52:03 <esolangs> [[Path]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105146&oldid=105145 * Masalt * (-71) 
02:52:40 <esolangs> [[Path]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105147&oldid=105146 * Masalt * (+31) 
05:05:30 <zzo38> Can AI be used to make and/or solve puzzle games such as Hero Hearts?
05:23:19 <nesuniken[m]> The DOS game? 
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05:42:50 <zzo38> Yes, but there is also a Windows version, and a Linux version (which I wrote, and has many enhancements).
05:43:53 <zzo38> Do you like Hero Hearts game?
06:08:26 <int-e> `' tree
06:08:28 <HackEso> 63) <fedoragirl> My mascot is a tree of broccoli. \ 208) <zzo38> ais523: Maybe it is better, because I don't think the octopus will live very well in the tree. But the difference is that the Internet is lying and you cannot see such things; you could make modified picture, though, in order to lie more clearly, at least. \ 237) <treederwright> enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity \ 599) <Phantom__Hoover> Minecraft has made me view all trees as ridi
06:09:06 <int-e> `' 599
06:09:07 <HackEso> 599) <Phantom__Hoover> Minecraft has made me view all trees as ridiculously slender.
06:09:10 <int-e> `" 599
06:09:12 <HackEso> 1/1:599) <Phantom__Hoover> Minecraft has made me view all trees as ridiculously slender.
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06:52:19 <nesuniken[m]> <zzo38> "Do you like Hero Hearts game?" <- Honestly I was just confused why that game in particular.
06:55:04 <zzo38> Was some particular part of it confusing?
06:56:06 <nesuniken[m]> <zzo38> "Can AI be used to make and/or..." <- Probably, but that's out of my depth. You'd probably have better luck asking this question in gamedev or machine learning communities. 
06:56:21 <nesuniken[m]> * Probably, but that's out of my depth. You'd likely have better luck asking this question in gamedev or machine learning communities. 
07:01:48 <zzo38> I could add such thing into the misc/ or contrib/ directory of Free Hero Mesh if someone has them, in cas eanyone finds them useful or interesting experiments. I don't know how well it can be done iwth an arbitrary description of game rules (probably much more difficult than being specific to a single game). In some cases, it might be possible to do a few things even without AI.
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11:03:13 <esolangs> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105148&oldid=105131 * TheBigH * (+14) 
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12:45:18 <Soni> do any programming languages have true imperative data structures?
12:46:04 <FireFly> what does it mean for a datastructure to be imperative, that it can be mutated in place with imperative operations?
12:48:02 <Soni> `async fn` in e.g. rust, does build imperative data structures
12:48:04 <HackEso> async? No such file or directory
12:48:10 <Soni> but it's not its primary purpose
12:49:11 <Soni> you can exploit lua coroutines for imperative data structures as well, but again not really an intended language feature
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13:10:40 <Soni> FireFly: we're not sure how to define it beyond that unfortunately :/
13:18:24 <esolangs> [[BigBrain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105149&oldid=105111 * K * (-110) Fixed typos
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16:58:17 <esolangs> [[InstructionPointerBF]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105150&oldid=92244 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+294) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the InstructionPointerBF programming language on GitHub and added the category tag Implemented.
17:00:23 <esolangs> [[InstructionPointerBF]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105151&oldid=105150 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+163) Added an examples section with an infinitely repeating cat program as its incipient member.
17:09:38 <esolangs> [[InstructionPointerBF]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105152&oldid=105151 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+671) Added further elucidations anenst the bit decoding procedure.
17:11:51 <esolangs> [[InstructionPointerBF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105153&oldid=105152 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+89) Added an explanatory paragraph preceding the PocketBF command selector table.
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17:27:14 <esolangs> [[PocketBF]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105154&oldid=92243 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+125) Added an examples section with an infinitely repeating cat program as its incipient member.
17:29:15 <esolangs> [[PocketBF]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105155&oldid=105154 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+294) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the PocketBF programming language on GitHub and added the category tag Implemented.
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17:32:13 <esolangs> [[PocketBF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105156&oldid=105155 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+93) Improved the instruction tables' formatting.
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18:50:12 <esolangs> [[Talk:1+]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105157 * Olive * (+281) /* Re-defining functions */ new section
18:50:31 <esolangs> [[Talk:1+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105158&oldid=105157 * Olive * (+0) 
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18:57:08 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * MopBanana *  New user account
18:57:17 <esolangs> [[Talk:1+]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105159&oldid=105158 * Olive * (+356) 
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19:02:15 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105160&oldid=105115 * MopBanana * (+200) /* Introductions */
19:03:02 <esolangs> [[Half-Broken Car in Heavy Web Traffic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105161&oldid=105130 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+56) Categories
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19:15:50 <esolangs> [[PocketBF]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105162&oldid=105156 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+550) Reformatted the command table.
19:16:00 <Soni> FireFly: the basic idea is that an imperative data structure is not declarative
19:16:13 <Soni> a declarative data structure is one which is declared, and then you do stuff with it
19:16:23 <Soni> so an imperative data structure is one which is formed from what you do with it
19:17:11 <Soni> you could argue python has imperative data structures but we wouldn't, because it has classes. we feel like imperative data structures have to be more fundamental than that.
19:17:24 <Soni> imperative data structures have to be about the flow of data, instead of the shape of data
19:17:35 <Soni> python does think about the shape of data more than the flow of data
19:17:56 <Soni> but things like `async fn` in rust, coroutines in lua, etc, do have that "flow of data" property
19:18:09 <Soni> they're not perfect tho
19:18:15 <Soni> can we do better?
19:18:29 <Soni> (personally, we can't, but maybe someone else has a better idea)
19:20:17 <esolangs> [[PocketBF]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105163&oldid=105162 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+162) Added a See also section with two initial members.
19:33:07 <esolangs> [[NNYRLD]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105164 * MopBanana * (+2070) An esolang that mimics the language of a 9 year old
19:35:36 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105165&oldid=105148 * MopBanana * (+13) 
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21:42:21 <esolangs> [[Tile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105166&oldid=105070 * Dtp09 * (+280) 
21:42:41 <esolangs> [[Tile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105167&oldid=105166 * Dtp09 * (+18) /* 1.3.1 (12/6/22) */
21:42:49 <esolangs> [[Tile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105168&oldid=105167 * Dtp09 * (+0) /* 1.3.1 (12/6/22) */
21:44:57 <esolangs> [[Tile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105169&oldid=105168 * Dtp09 * (+11) /* Commands */
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22:53:04 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * Dtp09 *  uploaded "[[File:Tile Cat.png]]"
22:53:33 <esolangs> [[Tile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105171&oldid=105169 * Dtp09 * (+242) /* Code Examples */
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2022-12-08:

01:29:54 <esolangs> [[AllChar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105172&oldid=105138 * TheBigH * (-1) 
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04:17:19 <zzo38> I don't know either what you meant by "imperative data structures". JavaScript has a Proxy function, but I am not sure if what you meant. How is `async fn` is Rust doing? Is it a data structure?
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08:22:53 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105173&oldid=104877 * Andor ch * (+166) added brainfuck fantasy console - could also be under funny variants
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11:40:42 <esolangs> [[Commercial]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105174&oldid=65547 * Ricky42069 * (+41) 
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14:22:15 <esolangs> [[SideStacks]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105175 * Myoitzi * (+7582) Created page with "'''SideStacks''' is a Stack-Based programming language made by [[User:Myoitzi]] housing two [[Stack|stacks]] and two 8-bit registers.   ==Instruction set== SideStacks uses a multitude of Single-character instructions, similar to [[brainfuck]]. A list of instructions 
14:25:08 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105176&oldid=105165 * Myoitzi * (+17) 
14:28:38 <esolangs> [[User:Myoitzi]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105177&oldid=93341 * Myoitzi * (+40) 
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21:14:28 <esolangs> [[IBSA]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105178&oldid=105080 * Simple9371 * (+51) Removed multiline comments
21:18:07 <esolangs> [[IBSA]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105179&oldid=105178 * Simple9371 * (-98) /* Documentation */ Added back multiline comments
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21:29:11 <esolangs> [[Tile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105181&oldid=105171 * Dtp09 * (+105) /* Update Log */
21:29:26 <esolangs> [[Tile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105182&oldid=105181 * Dtp09 * (+1) /* Cat */
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2022-12-09:

00:16:17 <zzo38> People still argue about the best way to implement 64-bit article numbers in NNTP. My way is: just use bigger numbers than 32-bits if necessary; nothing else in the protocol needs to be changed.
00:22:23 <b_jonas> zzo38: won't that confuse some existing older programs because they scanf and don't check for overflow?
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00:34:14 <zzo38> Yes, although none of the alternatives would allow programs to work properly and not lose any articles, either. If there are no too big article numbers then they will continue to work as they do; if there are too big article numbers, then it will be necessary to fix the software anyways, regardless of what you do, or else break stuff.
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05:21:56 <b_jonas> zzo38: sure, but it's better to break a program in a way that likely makes it give an error message than to break it silently
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05:43:08 <b_jonas> yay, the channel is now 20 years old!
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06:10:31 <int-e> `? password
06:10:34 <HackEso> The password of the month was delayed by snow and ice and Elon Musk.
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06:41:17 <shachaf> `` echo "The password of the month is $(cat /dev/urandom | tr -dc 'a-z' | head -c15)." > ../wisdom/password
06:41:20 <HackEso> No output.
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07:01:08 <int-e> . o O ( < /dev/urandom tr -dc a | head -c15 )
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07:13:19 <shachaf> > 15 * logBase 2 26
07:13:20 <lambdabot>  70.50659577211638
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08:20:44 <zzo38> Can you use complex numbers in Magic: the Gathering with Un-cards?
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08:39:30 <int-e> Didn't they have imaginary health one time? (Which must have been well over a decade ago because that's when I stopped following M:tG)
08:40:35 <int-e> (For the same reason it's also possible that I misrember.)
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10:31:29 <wib_jonas> int-e, zzo38: not as far as I know.  I believe Infinity Elemental https://scryfall.com/card/und/54/infinity-elemental and Just Desserts https://scryfall.com/card/ust/90/just-desserts are the only cards that involve numbers that aren't half-integers
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10:58:31 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Transoptimal *  New user account
11:02:14 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105183&oldid=105160 * Transoptimal * (+169) transoptimal introduction
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12:26:14 <esolangs> [[Miscmisc2]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105184 * Transoptimal * (+2084) Create miscmisc2 language page
12:35:14 <esolangs> [[Miscmisc2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105185&oldid=105184 * Transoptimal * (+263) Add hello world example
12:40:03 <esolangs> [[Miscmisc2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105186&oldid=105185 * Transoptimal * (+343) Add cat example
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13:27:06 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105187&oldid=105176 * Transoptimal * (+16) Add miscmisc2 to the list
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13:30:49 <wib_jonas> Welcome to the twentieth anniversary international hub of esoteric programming language creation, celebration, and Christmas puzzle solving for stars! | https://esolangs.org | logs: https://logs.esolangs.org/
13:30:54 -!- wib_jonas has set topic: Welcome to the twentieth anniversary international hub of esoteric programming language creation, celebration, and Christmas puzzle solving for stars! | https://esolangs.org | logs: https://logs.esolangs.org/.
13:31:13 <int-e> `? *
13:31:17 <HackEso> Twinkle, twinkle, little star!
13:31:20 <wib_jonas> yes, those
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13:51:05 <esolangs> [[Miscmisc2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105188&oldid=105186 * Transoptimal * (+124) Add link to interpreter
13:51:07 <wib_jonas> hmm, maybe I should make it "twentieth esoteric programming adoption, anniversary, and advent!"
13:56:24 -!- wib_jonas has set topic: Welcome to the twentieth international hub of esoteric programming language analysis, adoption, anniversary, and advent of code! | https://esolangs.org | logs: https://logs.esolangs.org/.
14:02:54 <int-e> Oh, https://xkcd.com/2708/ is also about stars
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14:19:05 <esolangs> [[Edge]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105189&oldid=36906 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+4135) Added an interpreter implementation in Common Lisp and introduced the category tag Implemented.
14:19:49 <esolangs> [[Edge]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105190&oldid=105189 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+2) Rectified the freshly introduced Implemented category tag.
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14:27:30 <esolangs> [[Miscmisc2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105191&oldid=105188 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+71) Formatting, categories
14:29:58 <esolangs> [[Edge]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105192&oldid=105190 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+2110) Added an examples section with three initial members, entailing also a Hello, World! program.
14:33:03 <esolangs> [[Edge]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105193&oldid=105192 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+256) Introduced a Commands section header and supplemented further information regarding the switches.
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14:34:04 <esolangs> [[Edge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105194&oldid=105193 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+5) Amended the example program title Copying a cell to Moving a cell value.
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14:59:26 <esolangs> [[Xaxa]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105195&oldid=97446 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+49) /* Interpreter */ Categories
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15:29:14 <esolangs> [[Edge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105196&oldid=105194 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+30) Improved the instruction tables' formatting, added further type information to the implementation, and formatting its documentation string.
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15:40:21 <earend1> `blsq "foobar"'x0sa
15:40:23 <HackEso> ​"xoobar"
15:41:46 <earend1> `"blah"/cop^IN
15:41:47 <HackEso> ​"blah"/cop^IN? No such file or directory
15:41:59 <earend1> `blsw "blah"/cop^IN
15:42:00 <HackEso> blsw? No such file or directory
15:42:09 <earend1> `blsq "blah"/cop^IN
15:42:10 <HackEso> ERROR: Unknown command: (N \ )! \ ERROR: Unknown command: (^I)! \ ERROR: Unknown command: (op)! \ ERROR: Unknown command: (/c)! \ "blah"
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17:07:28 <fizzie> `blsq "ULRD"{**5.%}m[  "convenient!"vv
17:07:29 <HackEso> ​{0 1 2 3}
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17:12:22 <fizzie> `blsq "UUDDLRLR"XX{2336 3dg?d2coj**5.%!!}m[
17:12:23 <HackEso> ​{{0 -1} {0 -1} {0 1} {0 1} {-1 0} {1 0} {-1 0} {1 0}}
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17:39:45 <FireFly> maybe I should learn burlesque hm
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17:45:18 <fizzie> One drawback: neither the language reference, nor the Moonpage, is exactly correct. There's some undocumented-but-useful stuff, some of which I learned by reading the interpreter in previous years but then promptly forgot.
17:54:02 * FireFly nods
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18:02:32 <esolangs> [[BigBrain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105197&oldid=105149 * K * (+198) Changed some instructions.
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18:25:53 <fizzie> Looking at some of the last year's solutions reminded me of one of them. There's a set of 10 numbered variables that you can set with sX (where X = 0..9, and SX is shorthand for dup + sX) and get with gX, and I used them a lot in "stateful" solutions because they can be much (and sometimes shorter) than using the state stack.
18:26:37 <fizzie> I also feel like I had come up with an alternative for {0 0} that wasn't any shorter but avoided that unseemly space, but I can't identify it now.
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19:30:47 <esolangs> [[BigBrain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105198&oldid=105197 * K * (+88) added brainfuck symbols
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20:14:12 <b_jonas> `blsq {0j}
20:14:14 <HackEso> ​{0 j}
20:14:18 <b_jonas> `blsq {0J}
20:14:19 <HackEso> ​{0 J}
20:14:20 <b_jonas> `blsq {0q}
20:14:21 <HackEso> ERROR: (line 6, column 4): \ unexpected "}" \ expecting white space, "o", "begin lisp", "fancy", "%", "set", "g", "get", "s", "S", "call", "proc", "m{", "f{", "r{", "q", "{", "\"", "-", digit, "'", "(", "y", "k", "`" or "``"
20:14:23 <b_jonas> `blsq {0Q}
20:14:24 <HackEso> ​{0 Q}
20:14:37 <b_jonas> oh right, that makes code
20:14:44 <b_jonas> like postscript braces
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20:48:21 <esolangs> [[Brainlove]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105199&oldid=34213 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+70) Categories
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21:28:04 <esolangs> [[BigBrain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105200&oldid=105198 * K * (+218) added more stuff
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22:03:18 <fizzie> `blsq 0J_+
22:03:20 <HackEso> ​{0 0}
22:03:27 <fizzie> It was in fact even shorter by one character.
22:03:41 <fizzie> Had forgotten that _+ can make a block of two elements.
22:03:55 <fizzie> Well, two numbers, to be specific.
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2022-12-10:

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01:06:36 <zzo38> A feature I consider harmful in programming languages is a Unicode string type. It tends to be misused in API specifications (and it is sometimes the case even for programming language that do not have a Unicode string type, unfortunately). A feature such as GOTO is not harmful; it is helpful, and you do not have to use it if you do not want to, and even if you do, it doesn't affect interfaces.
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01:55:21 <esolangs> [[Bitflipper]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105201&oldid=94152 * Dtp09 * (+1319) 
01:56:08 <esolangs> [[Bitflipper]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105202&oldid=105201 * Dtp09 * (-2) /* Interpreters */
01:57:23 <esolangs> [[User:Dtp09]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105203&oldid=103604 * Dtp09 * (+23) 
01:57:50 <esolangs> [[Drawfuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105204&oldid=103606 * Dtp09 * (-38) 
01:58:10 <esolangs> [[Drawfuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105205&oldid=105204 * Dtp09 * (-8) 
02:00:06 <esolangs> [[Bitflipper]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105206&oldid=105202 * Dtp09 * (-14) /* Truth Machine */
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02:02:12 <esolangs> [[WholesomeFuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105207&oldid=101942 * Dtp09 * (-557) 
02:02:49 <esolangs> [[STACKIE]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105208 * Monochromeninja * (+8936) created
02:08:38 <esolangs> [[User:Dtp09]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105209&oldid=105203 * Dtp09 * (+63) 
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02:11:50 <esolangs> [[User:Dtp09]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105210&oldid=105209 * Dtp09 * (+132) 
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02:17:28 <masterbuilder> zzo38: Why do you consider Unicode string types harmful?
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03:26:30 <zzo38> Because libraries tend to misuse them in the interfaces they expose.
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06:41:03 <esolangs> [[Talk:Xaxa]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105211 * PkmnQ * (+99) Created page with "What would `-^` do? --~~~~"
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07:27:33 <esolangs> [[Tile/Textile]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105212 * Dtp09 * (+4822) Created page with "'''Textile''' is an attempt at a written form of Tile created by [[User:Dtp09]] on December 9th, 2022. It's name is a portmanteau of the words "Text" and "Tile", which is exactly what it is. A text representation of Tile.  Textile uses an assembly-like syntax, and wa
07:28:17 <esolangs> [[Tile/Textile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105213&oldid=105212 * Dtp09 * (+0) 
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09:27:32 <esolangs> [[Gar]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105214 * Masalt * (+289) Created page with "{{lowercase}} {{Stub}} :''The language '''gar''' is lowercased, except at the start of a sentence.''  ""Gar"" is an [[esoteric programming language]] invented by [[User:masalt]].  ==[[Popular problem|Examples]]==  ===[[Fibonacci sequence|Fibonacci Sequence]]===  >  >  {  %  :
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09:30:53 <esolangs> [[Gar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105215&oldid=105214 * Masalt * (+12) /* Fibonacci Sequence */
09:31:57 <esolangs> [[Gar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105216&oldid=105215 * Masalt * (+2) 
09:35:45 <esolangs> [[Brainfuckconsole74]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105217&oldid=104931 * Andor ch * (+357) 
09:39:26 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * Andor ch *  uploaded "[[File:Sonfic .png]]"
09:39:31 <esolangs> [[Brainfuckconsole74]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105219&oldid=105217 * Andor ch * (+167) 
09:40:31 <esolangs> [[Brainfuckconsole74]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105220&oldid=105219 * Andor ch * (+5) 
09:41:02 <esolangs> [[Brainfuckconsole74]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105221&oldid=105220 * Andor ch * (+0) 
09:41:21 <esolangs> [[Brainfuckconsole74]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105222&oldid=105221 * Andor ch * (-3) 
09:42:29 <esolangs> [[Brainfuckconsole74]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105223&oldid=105222 * Andor ch * (-8) 
09:44:43 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Categorization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105224&oldid=104211 * Andor ch * (+55) 
09:49:36 <esolangs> [[Brainfuckconsole74]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105225&oldid=105223 * Andor ch * (+26) 
09:51:35 <esolangs> [[User:Masalt]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105226&oldid=104886 * Masalt * (+9) /* Languages */
09:54:01 <esolangs> [[Gar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105227&oldid=105216 * Masalt * (+330) /* Examples */
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10:13:33 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Psycoder-x *  New user account
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10:26:27 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105228&oldid=105183 * Psycoder-x * (+205) Psycoder-x's sign
10:36:16 <esolangs> [[Talk:13 bytes :D]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105229 * Stysan * (+112) Created page with "amazing --~~~~, the 16 bytes creator"
10:50:22 <esolangs> [[Gar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105230&oldid=105227 * Masalt * (+52) /* Examples */
10:53:20 <esolangs> [[Gar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105231&oldid=105230 * Masalt * (+28) /* Examples */
11:07:33 <esolangs> [[Gar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105232&oldid=105231 * Masalt * (+0) /* Examples */
11:50:00 <esolangs> [[Gar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105233&oldid=105232 * Masalt * (+82) /* Examples */
12:10:07 <esolangs> [[User:Masalt]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105234&oldid=105226 * Masalt * (+13) /* Languages */
12:14:51 <fizzie> ChatGPT is bad at writing polyglots: https://zem.fi/tmp/polyglot-1.png
12:14:54 <fizzie> "When compiled as a C program, the compiler will ignore the lines of code that are not valid C -- When interpreted as Python, the interpreter will ignore the lines of code that are not valid Python, --"
12:14:58 <fizzie> If only it were that easy.
12:15:33 <fizzie> I got an even less sensible result when I tried on my phone, but didn't save it.
12:55:12 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Yufang321 *  New user account
13:35:02 <int-e> (* This is a comment in Pascal *)
13:36:03 <int-e> "When compiled as a C program, the compiler will ignore the lines of code that are not valid C, [...]"
13:36:33 <int-e> Maybe that's the future.
13:37:13 <int-e> Accepting illegal programs will make AIs much better at writing compilable code.
13:43:35 <b_jonas> the easiest way is probably to put all the c code inside single-line #defines except one invocation, and put all the python code in a C comment that starts in a #define line.
13:48:06 <int-e> b_jonas: http://paste.debian.net/1263539/
13:48:29 <int-e> (Yeah, this won't scale.)
13:48:43 <esolangs> [[User:Bananaapple]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105235&oldid=77332 * Bananaapple * (-126) Blanked the page
13:49:13 <esolangs> [[Filth]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105236&oldid=79914 * Bananaapple * (-315) 
14:05:13 <masterbuilder> zzo38: Well, what do you mean by that exactly?
14:13:03 <b_jonas> int-e: right
14:13:25 <b_jonas> unless you make the whole python program just a call to exec
14:21:17 <b_jonas> that is a convenient way to share data between the two languages though, since the syntax of double-quoted strings is compatible enough
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16:59:03 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Fly *  New user account
17:06:29 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105237&oldid=105228 * Fly * (+119) /* Introductions */
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17:39:12 <tech_exorcist> hello, is there a web-based interpreter for the M?! language?
17:40:22 <tech_exorcist> https://esolangs.org/wiki/M%3F%21
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18:26:28 <fizzie> `blsq {"noop" "addx 123" "addx -123"} {wd{{rdn!}f[ps++}m[}\m  " today's parsing trick "vv
18:26:29 <HackEso> ​{0 0 123 0 -123}
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18:31:33 <b_jonas> fungot, please make a prediction on when Taneb will have invented enough ice cream flavors that we shall group them into a separate wisdom?
18:31:33 <fungot> b_jonas: to define not bigger than 30 minutes?
18:34:10 <b_jonas> 30 minutes eh? ok, I can wait that long
18:34:11 <fizzie> ^rainbow belated happy 20th anniversary rainbow
18:34:12 <fungot> belated happy 20th anniversary rainbow
18:34:21 <fizzie> I guess the day was yesterday.
18:34:33 <b_jonas> we can still celebrate
18:41:05 <fizzie> `blsq "noop\naddx 123\naddx -123\n" WD{J:rd./ps++}\m  " even better "vv
18:41:07 <HackEso> ​{0 0 123 0 -123}
18:45:07 <earend1> one liner chiptune sounds generator: http://wurstcaptures.untergrund.net/music/?oneliner=t%20*%20((t%3E%3E12%7Ct%3E%3E8)%2663%26t%3E%3E4)&oneliner2=&t0=0&tmod=0&duration=30&separation=100&rate=8000
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18:48:25 <earend1> `blsq "noop\naddx 123\naddx -123\n" WD{J:rd./ps++}\m  " even better "
18:48:26 <HackEso> ​" even better " \ {0 0 123 0 -123}
18:48:54 <earend1> `blsq "noop\naddx 123\naddx -123\n" WD{J:rd./ps++}\m  " even better "v
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18:48:55 <HackEso> ERROR: Unknown command: (v \ )! \ " even better " \ {0 0 123 0 -123}
18:49:32 <earend1> `blsq "noop\naddx 123\naddx -123\n" WD{J:rd./ps++}\m  " even better "x0sa
18:49:33 <HackEso> ERROR: Burlesque: (sa) Invalid arguments! \ ERROR: Unknown command: (x0)! \ " even better " \ {0 0 123 0 -123}
18:49:58 <earend1> `blsq "noop\naddx 123\naddx -123\n" WD{J:rd./ps++}\m  " even better "'x0sa
18:49:59 <HackEso> ​"xeven better " \ {0 0 123 0 -123}
18:50:48 <earend1> `blsq "halo" " even better "'x0sa
18:50:49 <HackEso> ​"xeven better " \ "halo"
18:51:08 <earend1> `blsq "halo" " even better " "c"'x0sa
18:51:09 <HackEso> ​"x" \ " even better " \ "halo"
18:51:48 <earend1> `blsq "halo" " even better "vv "c"'x0sa
18:51:50 <HackEso> ​"x" \ "halo"
18:52:40 <earend1> iksaa
18:55:19 <earend1> is it some kind of inverted polish notation? 
18:56:09 <earend1> `log blsq
18:56:10 <HackEso> ​/hackenv/bin/log: 2: cd: can't cd to /var/irclogs/_esoteric \ grep: ????-??-??.txt: No such file or directory
18:56:41 <earend1> ``log blsq
18:56:42 <HackEso> ​`log? No such file or directory
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18:59:42 <tswett> Hey everyone.
18:59:52 <earend1> `? blsq
18:59:53 <HackEso> See: Burlesque
19:00:00 <tswett> So I came across this question on Stack Exchange: https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/645763/how-many-transistors-at-minimum-do-you-need-to-build-a-general-purpose-computer
19:00:06 <earend1> `? Burlesque
19:00:08 <HackEso> Burlesque is only the sexiest language on Earth. mroman created it for finance analysis because the traditionally used K and Dyalog APL are unreadable. (See: http://mroman.ch/burlesque )
19:00:24 <tswett> And I'm thinking: well, obviously, you can implement a general-purpose computer using just *one* transistor.
19:01:38 <b_jonas> where's the guide on the wiki for configuring Cyrus SASL to authenticate esolangers by the monthly password?
19:02:12 <tswett> So who wants to figure out how to create a Turing-complete system consisting only of shift registers and one single NAND gate? :D
19:02:22 <earend1> u need one for a single boolen gatter .. like AND afaik. that + diode and you have NAND. and you can derive all other logic from NAND
19:02:44 <earend1> so you need many transistors and diodes.
19:02:47 <b_jonas> tswett: what would store the infinite state?
19:03:48 <tswett> Good question.
19:03:53 <earend1> for display you can apply little lamps on the output. and for storage just don't power off. :)
19:04:42 <b_jonas> for storage you could use core memory or magnetic tape or disk. no transistors.
19:04:47 <earend1> combined cascaded circuits would make a bit / lamp.
19:04:56 <tswett> Let me be a little more precise. I think it'd be possible to make a system out of shift registers and one individual NAND gate, which could simulate any finite state machine with n states by using a shift register of size O(log n).
19:05:14 <earend1> with basically addition.
19:06:58 <b_jonas> wait, that doesn't work. core memory still needs transistors or relays for the addressing logic, though asymptotically much fewer, only like a cube root in the size of the memory rather than linear for SRAM or DRAM
19:08:24 <tswett> Can you store a bit stream on a magnetic tape without using any transistors or other similar things?
19:08:34 <earend1> lochkarten
19:09:11 <tswett> Yeah, that oughta do it.
19:09:13 <earend1> thats just mechanics. some tape. with on and off.  holes in paper were common. 
19:09:24 <earend1> sampe principle everywhere.
19:09:54 <b_jonas> tswett: no, you probably need transistors for the tape reader, but only like a constant amount of them
19:10:00 <b_jonas> the core rings might be relevant though:
19:10:21 <earend1> you could use a ghettoblaster.  or something more in the goonies incredible machine theme.
19:10:49 <tswett> Assuming that we already have a shift register, the obvious thing that you could do with one single NAND gate is a recurrence relation. You can do something like f(n) = f(n - 97) NAND f(n - 100).
19:10:52 <earend1> with terrified chickens planting eggs etc.
19:11:43 <tswett> But I don't think you can implement general computation using a recurrence relation of that form.
19:12:10 <earend1> how would O(log n) be the _size_ of a register?
19:13:26 <b_jonas> you know how for DRAM, you arrange the one-bit memory cells in a square grid, with wires through each row and column, right? each row and column needs at least some transistors or similar so you can individually enable a row and then temporarily store the result of each column, amplify it, then rewrite it. so in addition to the transistors in the DRAM itself, you need asymptotically a square root amount 
19:13:32 <b_jonas> of transistors in the number of bits stored, right?
19:14:37 <tswett> earend1: Well, a shift register has a size, right? If you have a shift register with one input and two outputs, and one of the outputs is the 87th-last input and one of the outputs is the 1,000,000th-last output, then that's a shift register of size 1,000,000.
19:15:09 <tswett> b_jonas: Yeah, you definitely need some transistors-or-something for the memory. I'm trying to figure out how to minimize the number of transistors needed for just the logic unit, disregarding the memory.
19:15:10 <b_jonas> but core memory can do better, you only need a cube root. the cores can be arranged in a cube (logically, not physically), there are enable lines that span a whole plane in two different direction, and sense lines spanning a plane in the third direction, and you get away with that because the core rings themselves work not only as storage but as a logic gate: they activate only when both sense lines 
19:15:16 <b_jonas> going through them have current
19:15:44 <b_jonas> and perhaps with some unrealistic physics, you could even get them to do a logical and on more than two enable lines
19:16:32 <b_jonas> basically when only one enable line sends a pulse, the core is still in its hysterisis state, but when both send a pulse, it definitely needs to be past hysterisis and change state
19:16:42 <tswett> Of course, it's possible to implement a computer using _only_ memory devices, so you have to make the decision about what the memory is allowed to do without that being cheating.
19:17:06 <b_jonas> so maybe if you have a crazy good ring where the boundary between reliable hysterisis and reliable overwrite is thin enough, you could get away with as few as a logarithmic number of transistors
19:17:18 <b_jonas> or maybe you could use the rings for logic itself somehow, replacing transistors
19:17:49 <b_jonas> the problem is that you need transistors or vacuum tubes or relays for the amplification of signals, the core ring or magnetic tape or disk itself can't do that
19:17:56 <b_jonas> and you can't really get rid of amplification
19:18:27 <earend1> flash drive.
19:18:33 <b_jonas> you can of course pick between relays, vacuum tubes, and solid state logic, solid state is just usually more practical these days
19:18:46 <b_jonas> except sometimes for large currents
19:19:15 <earend1> and are you sure you're not making this up to substitute desire. 
19:20:35 <earend1> daughter take these jewels of animal rights. they have sacred power.
19:20:38 <earend1> sheol.
19:21:01 <earend1> oops. wrong estoeric channel.
19:21:21 <earend1> what do you think of seafood?
19:21:46 <tswett> I don't eat seafood much. I like sushi, though.
19:22:17 <b_jonas> earend1: picking what memory to use? you could try a PC floppy drive, I think it has no logic at all, that's all in the floppy controller on the motherboard
19:22:45 <b_jonas> the signals from the motherboard through the floppy drive cable just go into the stepper motor and head and hole sensor and motor sensor and all that nonsense that you need
19:23:07 <b_jonas> so you'd need to build a more primitive disk controller for that. 
19:23:47 <b_jonas> only perhaps assume a larger capacity disk, because asking the user to change disks is probably cheating how complex your computer is
19:24:32 <tswett> Now I'm trying to figure out the smallest number of NAND gates (alternatively, the smallest number of NOR gates) required to implement the rule 110 operation, which is (b + c)(a' + b' + c'), or, equivalently, a'c + b'c + bc'.
19:26:36 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * TaserTheFox *  New user account
19:26:44 <b_jonas> tswett: part of the problem is that if you make the logic too simple, then you need a ROM to store enough of your program to bootstrap your computer, like for booting from the floppy, and a ROM also needs either transistors for each of the cells that are set to 1 plus transistors for decoding logic, or core memory
19:27:53 <b_jonas> well, there's a modified version of core memory for read-only data that takes up way less space, but even then you need addressing logic
19:28:44 <b_jonas> it's sort of the same trick as ROM versus RAM
19:29:00 <b_jonas> needs much fewer rings, because the rings themselves aren't what stores the data
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19:29:28 <b_jonas> but still, you can't get rid of the addressing logic until you can bootstrap enough to read/write your disk or tape 
19:30:15 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105238&oldid=105237 * TaserTheFox * (+167) 
19:55:01 <b_jonas> you know there's the sitcom trope where someone is in a hurry, so instead of oven cooking meat for six hours, they cook it for two minutes but on 180 times higher temperature than normal. that never works out. but could you instead cook 180 times more meat for two minutes?
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19:58:03 <tswett> That sounds like a good idea.
20:02:54 <tswett> On an unrelated note, every so often, I try to figure out how diodes actually work, and it keeps on turning out to be more complicated than I thought.
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20:13:08 <esolangs> [[User:TaserTheFox]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105239 * TaserTheFox * (+215) Created page with "'''Taser''', also known as '''TaserTheFox''' is a casual furry who does random things.  ==Languages== A language my friend and I created on a whim, Inspired by [[FurASM]]<br> <br>  [[EsoFur]] (page creation Pending)"
20:14:04 <esolangs> [[User:TaserTheFox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105240&oldid=105239 * TaserTheFox * (-1) 
20:16:04 <tswett> Soooooo metals have a band that's roughly half full (half electrons, half holes), and that's how they conduct; p-type silicon has a band that's almost completely full (tons of electrons, few holes); and n-type silicon has a band that's almost completely empty (few electrons, tons of holes). And if I understand right, n-type silicon has a somewhat
20:16:05 <tswett> negative Fermi level (it has some tendency to lose electrons and become positively charged) and p-type silicon has a somewhat positive Fermi level (it has some tendency to lose holes and become negatively charged).
20:26:45 <esolangs> [[BigBrain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105241&oldid=105200 * K * (+111) new instruction
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20:37:38 <esolangs> [[Gar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105242&oldid=105233 * Masalt * (+80) 
20:49:48 <esolangs> [[Gar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105243&oldid=105242 * Masalt * (+30) 
21:06:58 <esolangs> [[BigBrain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105244&oldid=105241 * K * (+0) az
21:23:07 <earend1> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCRPUv8V22o + http://wurstcaptures.untergrund.net/music/
21:25:39 <esolangs> [[Tile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105245&oldid=105182 * Dtp09 * (+120) 
21:41:02 <earend1> tswett: yeah .. the funcion is basically that you can make current flow in one direction, and block the other. NAND : https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.nDo-obvCmsxO-iGejTp33AHaE7?pid=ImgDet&rs=1
21:42:21 <earend1> diode is its the trangular NOT thingy. [ direction is relevant ] 
21:48:38 <esolangs> [[Gar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105246&oldid=105243 * Masalt * (+148) /* Examples */
21:50:18 <esolangs> [[Gar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105247&oldid=105246 * Masalt * (-63) 
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22:06:49 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * SMA *  uploaded "[[File:Primes.png]]"
22:09:00 <esolangs> [[BiTrax]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105249&oldid=104861 * SMA * (+108) Primes example
22:16:36 <esolangs> [[BrainJuice]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105250&oldid=100671 * A Monitor * (-8) 
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22:24:41 <zzo38> masterbuilder: OK, I can try to explain better.
22:26:18 <zzo38> Sometimes, you will want to pass through data without dealing with character encoding (which might be anything, or maybe even unknown). Sometimes, it is incorrectly assumed that file names or something else are Unicode text, even though it isn't. Sometimes, it is Unicode but there will be mismatched surrogates. Sometimes, a character encoding cannot be unambiguously (or at all) converted to Unicode.
22:27:13 <zzo38> Sometimes, rendering, even if it is converted to Unicode, you will have to know the original code to render it correctly anyways. Sometimes they insist on using Unicode for everything and even leads to security issues, including homoglyphs and many others.
22:27:53 <zzo38> The Unicode Conspiracy making everything use one character set, to try to be suitable for everything, is causing many problems with computer programs.
22:35:05 <earend1> `zalgo long may last chtulus reign
22:35:07 <HackEso> l̃ͯo̢ͯńͪg̛̑ ̵̙m̡͙ă͟y̘͌ ͗̆l̢ͯa̫ͪsͭ̎t͔̾ ̹̇c͈̾h̩̭ṯ̨u̸͏lͮ͑u̴͙s͉͊ ̩͉ŕͅe̼͢i็͏g̹͛n̄ͪ
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22:41:58 <esolangs> [[User:Masalt]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105251&oldid=105234 * Masalt * (+483) 
22:42:28 <esolangs> [[User:Masalt]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105252&oldid=105251 * Masalt * (+15) /* masalt */
22:43:13 <esolangs> [[Gar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105253&oldid=105247 * Masalt * (-1) 
22:45:49 <esolangs> [[Gar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105254&oldid=105253 * Masalt * (-1) 
22:47:03 <earend1> zzo38: how do you deal with this. 
22:49:18 <earend1> like in one or two lines of code .. or i dont know. a link to one or two lines of code. but not a book recommendation. unless .. ok (: 
23:00:51 <zzo38> Well, sometimes I just write my own programs.
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23:33:17 <esolangs> [[Gar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105255&oldid=105254 * Masalt * (-6) /* Disan Count */
23:45:53 <esolangs> [[Gar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105256&oldid=105255 * Masalt * (+77) /* Examples */
23:49:06 <esolangs> [[MCBlocks]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105257&oldid=99080 * BoundedBeans * (+41) Added Multi-dimensional languages category
23:51:47 <esolangs> [[Gar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105258&oldid=105256 * Masalt * (+40) /* Factorial */
23:55:16 <masterbuilder> zzo38: Thanks, wasn't sure what you meant, it's clear now

2022-12-11:

01:03:48 <esolangs> [[User:Masalt]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105259&oldid=105252 * Masalt * (+4) 
01:30:17 <esolangs> [[Tile/Textile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105260&oldid=105213 * Dtp09 * (+1) /* greater, less, equal, jump, rand */
01:50:55 <esolangs> [[Tile/Textile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105261&oldid=105260 * Dtp09 * (-85) /* Comments */
01:52:19 <esolangs> [[Tile/Textile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105262&oldid=105261 * Dtp09 * (-2) /* Opcodes */
01:52:43 <esolangs> [[Tile/Textile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105263&oldid=105262 * Dtp09 * (-58) /* Opcodes */
01:53:30 <esolangs> [[Tile/Textile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105264&oldid=105263 * Dtp09 * (+58) /* Opcodes */
01:54:50 <esolangs> [[Tile/Textile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105265&oldid=105264 * Dtp09 * (+67) /* Opcodes */
01:59:28 <esolangs> [[Tile/Textile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105266&oldid=105265 * Dtp09 * (+209) /* Opcodes */
01:59:29 <esolangs> [[EsoFur]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105267 * TaserTheFox * (+2484) Created page with "'''EsoFur''' is a joke programming language created by [[User:TaserTheFox]], partially inspired by [[FurASM]] == Commands == {| class="wikitable plainpres" |+ Commands |- ! Command !! What It Does |- | OwO What's This? || Start Of Program |- | QwQ || End Of Program |
02:04:39 <esolangs> [[EsoFur]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105268&oldid=105267 * TaserTheFox * (+91) 
02:07:04 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105269&oldid=105187 * TaserTheFox * (+13) /* E */  new language
02:08:44 <esolangs> [[Tile/Textile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105270&oldid=105266 * Dtp09 * (+2) /* Opcodes */
02:13:52 <esolangs> [[User:TaserTheFox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105271&oldid=105240 * TaserTheFox * (-24) 
02:19:19 <esolangs> [[User:TaserTheFox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105272&oldid=105271 * TaserTheFox * (+25) 
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03:06:37 <esolangs> [[Number-code]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105273&oldid=100166 * Username * (+59) /* Syntax */
03:10:52 <esolangs> [[Number-code]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105274&oldid=105273 * Username * (+31) /* Syntax */
03:17:35 <esolangs> [[Number-code]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105275&oldid=105274 * Username * (+120) 
03:18:22 <esolangs> [[Number-code]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105276&oldid=105275 * Username * (+3) /* Examples */
03:38:38 <esolangs> [[Tile/Textile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105277&oldid=105270 * Dtp09 * (-233) /* Replacements */
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04:34:47 <esolangs> [[Tile/Textile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105278&oldid=105277 * Dtp09 * (+83) /* Replacements */
04:35:08 <esolangs> [[Ababab]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105279 * Username * (+0) Created blank page
04:43:09 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105280&oldid=104846 * TaserTheFox * (+13) /* General languages */
04:44:28 <esolangs> [[Tile/Textile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105281&oldid=105278 * Dtp09 * (+12) /* Starting a program */
04:45:04 <esolangs> [[Tile/Textile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105282&oldid=105281 * Dtp09 * (+42) /* Starting a program */
05:02:39 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105283&oldid=105087 * TaserTheFox * (+204) 
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05:35:36 <esolangs> [[Tile/Textile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105284&oldid=105282 * Dtp09 * (-10) /* Starting a program */
06:09:42 <int-e> Hmm, slow AoC day... seems I'm not the only one who struggled with parsing the specification. (The twist is less exciting, but I guess it'll stump quite a few people anyway.)
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06:31:20 <int-e> `? life
06:31:23 <HackEso> ​‘Life,’ said Marvin, ‘don't talk to me about life.’
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07:03:19 <Sgeo> Someone made a Subleq based game
07:03:22 <Sgeo> https://www.reddit.com/r/programminggames/comments/zi889t/sic1_a_singleinstruction_subleq_programming_game/
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07:50:29 <int-e> cute
07:51:00 -!- tromp has joined.
07:51:11 <int-e> (but I think I'll stop after the first two level sets)
08:02:21 <int-e> Though hmm. I wonder how long it'll take to get to self-modifying code.
08:03:14 <int-e> But the 3rd set isn't going there yet.
08:16:42 <int-e> Ah. It's set number 4.
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10:10:58 <Sgeo_> Ooh optimization hints
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14:24:11 <fizzie> Successfully predicted the AoC twist.
14:24:30 <fizzie> But it did take a while to find the "divided by three" bit in that wall of text.
14:25:12 <int-e> I didn't think about what the twist would be.
14:25:25 <int-e> (While doing part 1)
14:26:14 <fizzie> I just inadvertently guessed from the fact that the tests in the input were the first 8 primes.
14:26:22 <fizzie> Not that it's an inevitable consequence of that, but still.
14:26:47 <int-e> And even with that twist, it didn't really push the limits of it.
14:26:58 <int-e> You could've done this with a hundred monkeys.
14:27:56 <fizzie> According to https://zem.fi/tmp/aoc/twist.html people either found it less twisty than previous days, or else the timing is biased from the fact that understanding the description (and writing the boilerplate to parse the input) probably made part 1 take longer.
14:28:17 <int-e> (gur qvssrerapr jbhyq or gung lbh'q jbex zbqhyb rnpu cevzr vaqvivqhnyyl, gnpxvat n erznvaqre cre zbaxrl, engure guna hfvat gur ypz bs nyy gur zbqhyv)
14:28:58 <fizzie> In terms of https://zem.fi/tmp/aoc/stats.aligned.ratio.html it does have approximately the same fraction of "only solved part 1" people than day 9.
14:30:11 <fizzie> zuz, evtug
14:32:00 <fizzie> Did I mention I tried to make ChatGPT do ROT-13 assignments by starting the prompt by explaining to it what ROT-13 was? It replied by explaining back what ROT-13 is, and then answering something that looked like an entirely random question. Like, I asked it for "what's six multiplied by seven?" (which it can do in plaintext) and it replied by telling me the capital of France.
14:32:29 <int-e> :)
14:33:34 <int-e> Well, it does seem to have a slight edge on day 9.
14:38:29 <esolangs> [[Quudo]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105285&oldid=104910 * SwitchU42 * (+59) 
14:39:59 <esolangs> [[Quudo]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105286&oldid=105285 * SwitchU42 * (+48) 
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17:04:39 <int-e> fizzie: Oh another silly thing that AoC could've done for a harder twist is ask for something big like 10^12 steps with a small-ish number of monkeys. This is feasible because the items are independent, and the number of states per item stays manageable.
17:05:32 <int-e> Probably too early for that... and perhaps it has too much of a Project Euler flavor.
17:17:27 <esolangs> [[Quudo]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105288&oldid=105287 * SwitchU42 * (+94) 
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17:33:02 <esolangs> [[Quudo]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105289&oldid=105288 * SwitchU42 * (-9) 
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17:57:57 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * VBerstis *  New user account
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18:14:22 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105290&oldid=105238 * VBerstis * (+244) /* Introductions */
18:19:42 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105291&oldid=105269 * VBerstis * (+28) /* S */
18:23:17 <zzo38> What customizable mahjong games, including Japanese rules, are suitable for Linux, with FOSS and without 3D graphics?
18:32:29 <esolangs> [[SNOBOL5]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105292 * VBerstis * (+686) Created page with "SNOBOL5 is an update from SNOBOL4.  More information can be found at http://snobol5.org .  Oregon SNOBOL5 is an open source implementation for 64bit Windows and Linux on x86 processors.  SNOBOL originated in Bell Laboratories in the 1960's.   The language is useful for 
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18:42:43 <esolangs> [[Fractran]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105293&oldid=71078 * VBerstis * (+157) 
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19:40:42 <fizzie> Meh. Day 11 wasn't exactly pleasant in Burlesque. Also, the part 2 solution takes 59 seconds for the example and 124 seconds for my puzzle input. :/
19:41:42 <cakeprophet> I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with Unicode string types, but they are often poorly designed or poorly used. For example, libraries using Unicode strings as inputs when they actually want bytestring inputs, and vice versa. It can be a problem for example when a library wants to "support Unicode" so they use the Unicode type, but
19:41:42 <cakeprophet> what they actually wanted was to be encoding-agnostic which means they should have used a bytestring instead. Really you should only be using a Unicode string when your code needs to perform Unicode-specific operations on Unicode code points.
19:41:55 <cakeprophet> and when languages prioritize them over raw bytestrings, like when string literals are always UTF-8 encoded strings and using bytestrings requires extra code to convert to raw, developers will typically take the path of least resistance and use Unicode strings everywhere when they don't really need to
19:42:46 <cakeprophet> the types themselves can be poorly designed or have inconsistent/unexpected semantics. In Javascript, writing a C-style for loop over a string will index the bytes of the string, while using an iterator will iterate over the codepoints instead. "string.length" will return the raw bytes and the only way to get the number of codepoints is to iterate
19:42:47 <cakeprophet> into an array: Array.from(string).length
19:43:22 <cakeprophet>  a JS string literal "Hello" is always a UTF-16 encoded string. To use a raw string you need to convert to Buffer with Buffer.from(string). This leads to UTF-16 strings showing up in libraries where they don't belong
19:44:23 <cakeprophet> I would guess what made the switch from Python 2 to 3 so slow and painful for the Python community was the fact that it switched to an "everything is Unicode" design but for real-world Python apps doing real-world things everything is not, in fact, Unicode.
19:44:32 <zzo38> cakeprophet: Yes, those are actually what my concerns were. The presence of a Unicode string type tends to cause libraries to use them when they should not do so. I also think that there is nothing inherently wrong with a Unicode string type if you do not have to use it and string functions are available for byte strings too, but they do tend to be poorly designed and poorly used.
19:45:08 <cakeprophet> huge networking libraries like Twisted had to totally rewrite all of their string code to convert to/from bytestrings and the standard library utilities that were available in Python 2 for formatting/converting bytestrings were just flat out missing in Python 3. And, on top of all this, they needed to maintain compatibility with the old Python 2
19:45:09 <cakeprophet> APIs at the same time.
19:45:28 <zzo38> In other words, I agree with your points.
19:45:37 <cakeprophet> the design assumption for Python 3 was "everything should just be using Unicode anyway" but that only makes sense in the context of user-facing applications that display human-readable text to users. Networking code often doesn't and shouldn't use Unicode
19:48:16 <zzo38> However, I think that "everything should just be using Unicode anyway" is wrong even in the context of user-facing applications that display human-readable text to users, but whether or not that is the case still has the other problems that you and I mentioned.
19:49:08 <cakeprophet> it's technically wrong, yes. but from practically correct in 2022
19:53:55 <cakeprophet> but yes if raw byte strings are a widely supported language primitive it's a non-issue because any encoding is easy to support then
19:54:08 <cakeprophet> so it should always be a priority
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20:00:53 <cakeprophet> it's more about "does the application need to be aware of human-language factors". An IRC client for example displays human-readable text to users and is user-facing, but doesn't really care too much about the message encoding itself. So when creating a Haskell IRC bot I would use ByteString at the transport level but would convert to Text for
20:00:53 <cakeprophet> commands if I needed to manipulate the text in some way (parse and split on Unicode spaces of different types to split into words, uppercase and lowercase, etc)
20:01:35 <esolangs> [[FlipJump]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105294&oldid=102091 * Tomhe * (-136) 
20:01:36 <cakeprophet> the IRC protocol spec doesn't say anything about the message encoding other than the protocol commands are all basic ASCII
20:07:27 <cakeprophet> often for user apps the answer is "yes it does need to be aware of that" and the most commonly used encodings are Unicode encodings. so that's why I say for "user-facing apps" it often makes sense, though it's not always the case
20:08:50 <cakeprophet> but yeah, I think if you took the unicode changes out of Python 3 the entire Python codebase probably would have migrated from 2 to 3 within a year or two at most.
20:10:25 <cakeprophet> instead it took like, what, 10 years? to confidently say "most Python code is Python 3"
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20:47:03 <esolangs> [[User:XKCD Random Number]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105295&oldid=103786 * MathigonDec * (+46) Newline eliminated
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20:58:43 <esolangs> [[BrainDestructionByCode I]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105296 * Threesodas * (+1659) Created page with "'''BrainDestructionByCode I''' is an esoteric language designed to drive the programmer insane, created by [[User:Threesodas|threesodas]]. = Cells of BDBCI = BDBCI is a cell based programming language, similar to [[brainfuck]]. It has a finite amount
21:08:59 <esolangs> [[EsoFur]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105297&oldid=105268 * TaserTheFox * (+1052) added error list
21:09:20 <esolangs> [[EsoFur]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105298&oldid=105297 * TaserTheFox * (+0) 
21:25:43 <JAA> cakeprophet: Fortunately, IRCv3 introduced UTF8ONLY to signal to clients that data must be UTF-8. If you send something invalid to those servers with that enabled, you get an error (or even a disconnect) or the message gets modified to be valid.
21:36:30 <zzo38> I think it is a bad idea (as are many other parts of IRCv3, but not all of them), and it would be better to somehow declare the character encoding on a channel (or user, in the case of private messages). However, when bridging to other services, sometimes being restricted to a specific character encoding (or even further restricted) may be necessary. (Usually this would be UTF-8, but not always.)
21:40:29 <zzo38> Many of my own programs do not, and probably will not, ever support Unicode. (I mostly program in C, though, rather than Python)
21:50:22 <zzo38> Possibly, can also be written ICNU which can be alternative of ICU, but does not need to be converted to/from Unicode and can deal with any encoding (including Unicode).
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22:12:46 <esolangs> [[SNOBOL5]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105299&oldid=105292 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+58) Stub, categories
22:28:12 <cakeprophet> JAA: hmm yeah that's too simplistic of an approach. but I guess it makes it easy to implement for existing IRC code. a way to declare expected encodings at server, channel, and message level would be best I think. UTF-8 is most efficient for English text but UCS-2 or UTF-16 would be a more efficient choice for Chinese characters.
22:29:05 <cakeprophet> I don't think there's anything wrong with no enforcing an encoding in the IRC spec. it's a good thing in the sense that it doesn't limit encoding choices for servers/clients. But there should just be an easy way to declare what encoding is being used as metadata
22:31:10 <JAA> I think it makes far more sense to standardise on one encoding that can cover (pretty much) all glyphs out there than the minor efficiency gain from using a more specific encoding.
22:31:45 <JAA> Overcomplication is nice in esolangs but not so much in serious code. :-)
22:37:39 <JAA> There's an argument for other encodings due to the hard line length limit, and IRCv3's been working on that with the multiline spec (sadly still WIP though).
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22:38:54 <cakeprophet> I don't think it's overly complicated it's just as complicated as encodings themselves are. It's equivalent complexity to <meta charset="utf-8"> and it's not like these are unused encodings with no library support practically everything supports these encodings. message and channel level encoding could be overkill but at a minimum having a
22:38:54 <cakeprophet> server-level encoding metadata isn't overcomplication. if an IRC server is primarily for Chinese languages then it doesn't make sense to use UTF-8 when UCS-2 and UTF-16 is widely used. hell even legacy chinese encodings can still be commonly found in China
22:41:04 <JAA> Yeah, true for UTF-16 and probably UCS-2, but then people will immediately ask for JIS, GBK, EUC, and whatnot. That way lies madness.
22:42:31 <JAA> It still makes a relatively simple protocol significantly more complicated for a very minor advantage in very specific circumstances. That's overcomplication to me.
22:43:57 <JAA> Same reason why almost everyone uses UTF-8 for web pages these days, even if sometimes another encoding could be marginally more efficient. And IRC uses even less bandwidth than HTML over HTTP.
22:44:27 <cakeprophet> sure, why not support those. I understand the appeal of strongarming everything into UTF-8 but there's a reason we have multiple Unicode encodings and not just one. Back in the old days of "encoding hell" I think everyone thought the solution was to just have one encoding to rule them all, but really what would be best is a consistent encoding
22:44:28 <cakeprophet> standards, metadata support for multiple encodings at protocol/file type level, and universal library support for all common encodings
22:45:38 <cakeprophet> UTF-8 is good enough for most purposes so it's an appealing and easy solution to just say "everything is UTF-8 now" but I think there are motivations for other encodings in the right contexts. Maybe not IRC specifically but in general.
22:47:13 <cakeprophet> efficiency concerns are a non-issue in the context of IRC generally. but the line limitation issue is a good example where UTF-8 is not ideal in all cases
22:48:28 <JAA> Yeah, I think I agree with that. We're way further from a consistent encoding metadata standard than a universal encoding though. I doubt the former will ever happen, to be honest.
22:49:22 <cakeprophet> depends. I think on Web encoding support is fairly solid. but honestly since much of what I encounter is UTF-8 anyway it's hard for me to quantify encoding support across devices and browsers
22:50:01 <JAA> Sure, I meant as a true universal standard that can be applied to 'anything', not just HTML.
22:50:51 <JAA> Say 'utf-8:some text encoded as UTF-8' or whatever, and that would work whether it's in a chat message, on a web page, or in a text file.
22:51:23 <cakeprophet> which is kind of the problem with everyone adopting a universal encoding. when it DOES make more sense to use the "ideal" encoding, often the support is not given because "everyone should just be using UTF-8 anyway". I see a problem with this mindset even though, for practical purposes, it currently works most of the time.
22:53:34 <cakeprophet> yeah there's no way to universally support that it has to be done in every standard and every protocol design. which requires devs to be a bit more thoughtful than just "oh everyone is using UTF-8 anyway who cares"
22:55:20 <zzo38> I think that there is no "ideal" character set (not just encoding) for all uses. This depends on not only what language you are writing but also how the data is to be used.
22:58:38 <zzo38> The fact that many modern programs insist on Unicode causes some problems, including that displaying Chinese and Japanese text correctly can be difficulty, that xterm will fail to display some characters from some DEC character sets (either correctly, or at all, sometimes), that the way text directions and other things are handled will cause problems in some cases, and character widths (sometimes ambiguous), etc.
23:00:25 <zzo38> They keep changing the character encoding of the rules of Magic: the Gathering, but fortunately it isn't difficult to find out what encoding it uses (and then I just convert all of them to ASCII).
23:05:27 <zzo38> For naming character encodings, I had considered to use an extension of the IBM code page numbers; numbers higher than 65535 can be used for encodings that do not have a IBM code page number. Many of them have no Unicode mapping (although some do, and this mapping is not necessarily different than the mapping of other code pages even if the code pages are different).
23:10:53 <zzo38> For example, you will not want to be limited to Unicode and can use TRON code, and others.
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23:28:59 <zzo38> Unfortunately, most fonts are made for Unicode and many libraries are designed for Unicode fonts, making it difficult to use non-Unicode, but I must try to write such thing anyways.
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02:11:28 <esolangs> [[EsoFur]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105300&oldid=105298 * TaserTheFox * (+403) Fibb sequence
02:12:40 <esolangs> [[EsoFur]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105301&oldid=105300 * TaserTheFox * (+1) 
02:18:48 <decay> what brainfuck program has the largest nesting depth for loops?
02:19:08 <decay> morbidly curious.
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04:42:09 <zzo38> I don't know.
04:51:28 <int-e> +[[[...[[[-]]]...]]] with 4998 pairs of []
04:52:32 <int-e> (That one actually existed in the context of https://www.hugi.scene.org/compo/compoold.htm#compo6 because it broke a few of the submissions.)
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07:03:50 <int-e> fizzie: ah, do your aoc statistics pages require manual updates from your side?
07:04:03 <int-e> I'm kind of curious how untwisty today's actually is
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07:30:36 <esolangs> [[EsoFur]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105302&oldid=105301 * TaserTheFox * (+8) 
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08:46:28 <esolangs> [[Ababab]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105303&oldid=105279 * Username * (+745) 
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10:30:37 <fizzie> int-e: Yeah, they do. Updated them now. Pretty much as un-twisty as it gets in terms of the twistiness measure, though not quite as low as (say) day 6 in the "ratio of one-star solutions to two-star ones" sense.
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15:26:04 <FireFly> how is the twistiness of an aoc puzzle defined?
15:27:54 <FireFly> is it the time between part1 and part2 submission, or the ratio between part1->part2 and puzzle_released->part1, or so?
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15:29:48 <int-e> FireFly: fizzie's https://zem.fi/tmp/aoc/stats.aligned.ratio.html tracks 1 - part2/part1 over time since puzzle release
15:30:30 <FireFly> ah
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16:39:53 <esolangs> [[C+++]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105304&oldid=79593 * Theanswertolifetheuniverseandeverything * (-1) 
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17:13:29 <esolangs> [[User:Masalt]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105305&oldid=105259 * Masalt * (+4) 
17:19:45 <esolangs> [[Gar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105306&oldid=105258 * Masalt * (+0) /* Factorial */
17:30:45 <esolangs> [[Gar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105307&oldid=105306 * Masalt * (+48) 
17:35:00 <fizzie> FireFly: I also have a chart that's specifically called "twistiness" -- https://zem.fi/tmp/aoc/twist.html -- and that's defined as the ratio between the total time used by the first 100 people to get two stars, over the total time used by the (probably slightly different set of) first 100 people to get one star. (So basically the sums of the times of the two sections of the per-day leaderboards.)
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18:00:13 <FireFly> hm right
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19:00:24 <esolangs> [[Gar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105308&oldid=105307 * Masalt * (+169) 
19:17:12 <esolangs> [[Gar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105309&oldid=105308 * Masalt * (+31) 
19:17:36 <esolangs> [[Gar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105310&oldid=105309 * Masalt * (+1) 
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21:58:52 <fizzie> Burlesque runtime for today dropped from 80 seconds down to 2 seconds by switching from a visited list to just putting ~ characters in the map to mark already visited squares. Still a pain to implement though.
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22:56:28 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Nurdle *  New user account
23:29:49 <sprout> fizzie: +1
23:30:23 <sprout> the thing I implemented in egel was 1sec.  which is fast for egel
23:30:37 <sprout> depends on the input probably too
23:30:53 <sprout> 450 steps or something
23:31:36 <sprout> https://github.com/egel-lang/aoc-2022/blob/main/day12/task2.eg <- today in egel
23:35:51 <fizzie> `blsq "Sabqponm\nabcryxxl\naccszExk\nacctuvwj\nabdefghi"ln)XXS0"SE"XX{J{~[}j+]g0jfij{Fi0>.}j+]g0jms_+}MPS1x/j'zD!jJx/j'~D!s0{'a0}j+]bx{g_JPpg_2336 3dg?d2cojbc{?+}Z]{J<]0>=g0saj-]L[_+x/?-<]0.>&&}{Jg0jd!bxj+]}FMjp^+.{[~<=}[[x/jf[Jg0+]{-]'~D!}r[s0j+.{[+}j+]m[.+}{nz}w!p\CLg1{-]==}[[fe[~
23:35:52 <HackEso> 31
23:36:48 <FireFly> nice.. I assume
23:37:01 <FireFly> I don't speak burlesque and it comes across as line noise :p
23:37:09 <fizzie> I thought with Burlesque, spoiler tags are kind of unnecessary.
23:37:17 <FireFly> reasonable
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23:49:39 <fizzie> Typically I can golf things down to around 50%-75% of the original size of the first working solution if I spend some time with it, but the longer the starting point, the harder it is to muster the effort.
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23:53:57 <sprout> does it do a breadth-first search?
23:54:08 <fizzie> It does.
23:54:36 <sprout> built-in or explicit code?
23:54:54 <sprout> I cannot read burlesque but I am interested how it works
23:57:51 <FireFly> I am in awe of your ability to make sense of these characters

2022-12-13:

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00:00:38 <b_jonas> FireFly: I'm not sure he can. it might be a write-only thing.
00:00:54 <FireFly> fair :p
00:01:58 <sprout> well,  I found the homepage
00:02:09 <b_jonas> I mean even some of the code that I write is so badly structured that it's write-only, though this declined a bit since I have much less time now to code as a hobby and mostly just write stuff for work
00:02:09 <fizzie> sprout: Quite explicit. The overall structure is, the {...}{nz}w! (that surrounds most of the code) is a while loop that keeps going as long as the top of the stack is "nonzero" (for a list aka block, nonempty); that's the queue for the BFS, where each element has the form {{y x} z d} where {y x} is a position, z the current height, and d the current distance. And then the bulk of it is to pop
00:02:11 <fizzie> one off from the front (g_), generate its neighbours (2336 3dg?d2cojbc{?+}Z]), filter it to keep only in-bounds elements (J<]0>=g0saj-]L[_+x/?-<]0.>&&), map over them to also include the neighbour heights (Jg0jd!bxj+]), append d+1 to each, filter one more time to keep only the neighbors that are at most one step higher ({[~<=}[[x/jf[), update the level to mark the surviving neighbors as visited,
00:02:13 <fizzie> and finally append them to the end of the queue.
00:03:13 <b_jonas> now I actually give meaningful names to most identifiers, not just one or two character golfed nonsense
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00:03:27 <b_jonas> still not writing the most beautiful code admittedly
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00:04:10 <b_jonas> it's getting a bit spaghetti-ish as I'm adding more and more features that expand to scope to beyond what I planned the code would do and rarely spend time to refactor
00:04:19 <fizzie> Oh, and there's a bit in there to push a copy of each element popped off of the queue into the state stack (JPp) so that at the end it can look up the element corresponding to visiting the endpoint and get the distance at the time (p\CLg1{-]==}[[fe[~).
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00:05:47 <sprout> fizzie: that's roughly what I implemented too I think
00:06:24 <sprout> fizzie: in what language did you implement burlesque? assuming you did
00:06:49 <fizzie> I didn't. But the reference (only?) implementation is written in Haskell.
00:06:57 <sprout> figures
00:07:37 <fizzie> A former #esolangs (well, #esoteric at the time) person did, that's where I picked it up.
00:07:41 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105311&oldid=105290 * Nurdle * (+207) /* Introductions */
00:08:05 <esolangs> [[User:Nurdle]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105312 * Nurdle * (+115) The Creator of ABFC
00:08:08 <fizzie> I think if I had written it, there would be quite the temptation to add more builtins. As it is, I get to take the language as immutable.
00:08:35 <esolangs> [[ABFC (Another BrainFuck Clone)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105313 * Nurdle * (+3381) '''ABFC''' (stands for "Another BrainFuck Clone") is a language created in ~6 hours by [[User:Nurdle|Nurdle]].
00:08:48 <sprout> I try to avoid adding stuff to the prelude
00:09:04 <sprout> otherwise you end up with a language to gold aoc I guess
00:09:09 <sprout> *golf
00:09:18 <FireFly> at least burlesque derivatives would be less stale than brainfuck derivatives
00:10:16 <sprout> burlesque already seems a bit geared towards aoc.  dynamic,  int and string types,  concatenative with off map
00:10:26 <sprout> that's what you need to solve most aoc
00:11:17 <b_jonas> but also, twenty years! esoteric is twenty years old! can you believe it?
00:11:34 <fizzie> It's got a couple of very non-AoC-related builtins around statistics, I think due to the history.
00:12:04 <esolangs> [[ABFC (Another BrainFuck Clone)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105314&oldid=105313 * Nurdle * (+32) 
00:12:31 <esolangs> [[ABFC (Another BrainFuck Clone)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105315&oldid=105314 * Nurdle * (-2) 
00:12:42 <fizzie> Like builtins for chi-squared tests, and CDFs and PDFs for a couple of distributions.
00:13:03 <FireFly> b_jonas: :tada:
00:13:17 <sprout> imma steal those?
00:13:21 <sprout> maybe
00:13:33 <FireFly> what's being stolen? :o
00:13:52 <FireFly> hm I wonder if someone has a nix derivation for the burlesque interpreter somewhere
00:14:03 <sprout> the lib ;).  I have no idea what primitives I need for statistics
00:14:10 <b_jonas> admittedly I've been here for less than half of those twenty years
00:14:20 <sprout> but I am kindof done with egel anyway
00:14:27 <FireFly> hmm
00:14:37 <sprout> it's either make egel faster or implement another language
00:14:44 <sprout> leaning towards the second
00:14:52 <FireFly> b_jonas: it's weird to think that I've been here for more than half this channel's history, I don't feel like an oldie here :p
00:15:47 <b_jonas> FireFly: maybe because the channel moves slowly it doesn't feel like ten years?
00:21:23 <fizzie> I made a minimal .cabal file for Burlesque to get it running for AoC purposes.
00:21:46 <fizzie> https://0x0.st/onqe.cabal
00:22:17 <fizzie> (Unofficial.)
00:22:59 <FireFly> thanks!
00:24:15 <b_jonas> if the channel is 20 years old, we probalby have people here who are adults now but whom Taneb invented while this channel already existed
00:25:33 <fizzie> That + a Setup.hs file (https://0x0.st/onqL.hs) + the latest commit at https://github.com/FMNSSun/Burlesque (1753bdf) is what I've been using. Although there's a slightly weird thing about installing it: it produces two executables, of which `blsq-golf` runs from wherever but only accepts programs from a file, while the main `blsq` has a REPL but the REPL only works if a `Prelude.blsq` file is in
00:25:35 <fizzie> the current directory.
00:35:17 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105316&oldid=105291 * Nurdle * (+89) /* A */
00:35:51 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105317&oldid=105316 * Nurdle * (+2) /* A */
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04:36:07 <int-e> `"
04:36:10 <HackEso> 1/1:1289) <doesthiswork> there are very few things more child friendly than breasts \ 478) <Phantom_Hoover> I keep asking random people for "friendship <thing>" and it's crippling
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05:36:25 <esolangs> [[UnholyC]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105318 * Nurdle * (+1154) create page (unfinished)
05:36:59 <esolangs> [[User:Nurdle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105319&oldid=105312 * Nurdle * (-8) 
06:12:37 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Optic Fusion1 *  New user account
06:16:36 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105320&oldid=105311 * Optic Fusion1 * (+124) 
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12:00:59 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Arisu *  New user account
12:13:42 <esolangs> [[UnholyC]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105321&oldid=105318 * Nurdle * (+1941) 
12:14:40 <esolangs> [[UnholyC]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105322&oldid=105321 * Nurdle * (+0) 
12:15:55 <esolangs> [[UnholyC]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105323&oldid=105322 * Nurdle * (+1) 
12:18:10 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105324&oldid=105320 * Arisu * (+157) /* Introductions */
12:29:59 <esolangs> [[Shapes]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105325 * Arisu * (+528) stub
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12:31:28 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105326&oldid=105317 * Arisu * (+13) add shapes
13:28:22 <fizzie> There's something weird in the Burlesque "SortBy" primitive, and I remember running into it in the past too.
13:28:28 <fizzie> `blsq {1 5 2 4 3}{cm}sb  "this does work"vv
13:28:29 <HackEso> ​{1 2 3 4 5}
13:28:34 <fizzie> `blsq 1 5 cm 5 5 cm 5 1 cm CL  "the pairwise results of cm are what you'd expect"vv
13:28:35 <HackEso> ​{1 0 -1}
13:28:44 <fizzie> `blsq %XC={cm} 1 5 XC 5 5 XC 5 1 XC CL  "a custom primitive defined on top of it returns the same results"vv
13:28:45 <HackEso> ​{1 0 -1}
13:28:54 <fizzie> `blsq %XC={cm} {1 5 2 4 3}{XC}sb  "but the custom primitive doesn't work with SortBy"vv
13:28:55 <HackEso> ​{1 5 2 4 3}
13:29:02 <fizzie> `blsq {1 5 2 4 3}{%XC={cm}XC}sb  "except if redefined inside the block"vv
13:29:03 <HackEso> ​{1 2 3 4 5}
13:29:26 <fizzie> It was something like, the sort function is ran in an entirely separate environment, with nothing shared with the main one.
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14:33:20 <wib_jonas> fizzie: https://mroman.ch/burlesque/lref.html says "Since Burlesque 1.7.3 you can use state even inside maps/filters etc. (However, this doesn't work for sortBy yet).", but I'm not sure if that refers to using your definition of XC inside a comparison function, or only to writing the state inside a comparison function and then reading it later, in
14:33:21 <wib_jonas> another comparision function or outside the sort.
14:38:48 <esolangs> [[UnholyC]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105327&oldid=105323 * Nurdle * (+4) 
14:40:11 <esolangs> [[UnholyC]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105328&oldid=105327 * Nurdle * (+29) 
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14:42:00 <esolangs> [[UnholyC]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105330&oldid=105328 * Nurdle * (+5) 
14:42:19 <esolangs> [[ABFC (Another BrainFuck Clone)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105331&oldid=105329 * Nurdle * (+30) 
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15:28:05 <fizzie> I suspect it's mostly thinking about the state stack and variables (which also don't appear to work inside SortBy comparator), but maybe definitions work the same way.
15:34:47 <wib_jonas> also I realized the Burlesque is old. it's over ten years old, so it's been here for more than half of the esolang channel's history\
15:35:49 <wib_jonas> for some reason I thought Burlesque was among these modern golf languages, but I guess even those are old
15:37:21 <wib_jonas> Burlesque is older than Jelly and Brachylog
15:41:29 <wib_jonas> by the way, how old dates can git handle? can you date a commit to before 1970? before 1890?
15:43:44 <esolangs> [[ABFC (Another BrainFuck Clone)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105332&oldid=105331 * Nurdle * (+101) 
15:44:07 <esolangs> [[UnholyC]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105333&oldid=105330 * Nurdle * (+14) 
15:50:40 <wib_jonas> looks like it can handle dates from around 1973-03, before that it thinks the unix epoch has too few digits. typical git nonsense
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16:04:53 <esolangs> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105334&oldid=105326 * Nurdle * (+60) /* U */
16:09:10 <esolangs> [[UnholyC]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105335&oldid=105333 * Nurdle * (-38) 
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16:10:51 <esolangs> [[User:Nurdle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105336&oldid=105319 * Nurdle * (+108) 
16:11:34 <esolangs> [[User:Nurdle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105337&oldid=105336 * Nurdle * (+42) 
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16:23:19 <esolangs> [[User:Nurdle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105338&oldid=105337 * Nurdle * (+309) 
16:24:12 <esolangs> [[User:Nurdle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105339&oldid=105338 * Nurdle * (-377) /* Esolangs */
16:25:40 <esolangs> [[User:Nurdle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105340&oldid=105339 * Nurdle * (+202) /* Things I've Made */
16:27:53 <esolangs> [[Talk:ABFC (Another BrainFuck Clone)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105341 * Nurdle * (+88) Created page with ""First" ~~~~"
16:28:41 <esolangs> [[Talk:ABFC (Another BrainFuck Clone)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105342&oldid=105341 * Nurdle * (-88) did not mean to save changes
17:22:21 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105343&oldid=105280 * Nurdle * (+14) /* Lesser known programming languages */
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18:33:47 <esolangs> [[ALMBARC12YO]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105344 * Viba1 * (+649) Created page with "'''ALMBARC12YO''' is A Language Made By A Really Clever 12 Year Old. It is like [[Brainfuck]] but a bit different. I am really smart and clever.  == Why I made it? ==  A few months ago I started to learn python so i could make Minecraft 2 and get really rich and famous
18:35:06 <esolangs> [[ABFC (Another BrainFuck Clone)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105345&oldid=105332 * Nurdle * (+802) 
18:39:36 <esolangs> [[ABFC (Another BrainFuck Clone)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105346&oldid=105345 * Nurdle * (+161) 
18:40:05 <esolangs> [[ABFC (Another BrainFuck Clone)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105347&oldid=105346 * Nurdle * (-27) /* Truth Machine */
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19:09:10 <esolangs> [[ABFC (Another BrainFuck Clone)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105348&oldid=105347 * Nurdle * (-154) 
19:09:29 <esolangs> [[ABFC (Another BrainFuck Clone)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105349&oldid=105348 * Nurdle * (+0) /* Truth Machine */
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19:48:12 <b_jonas> Age of Mythology and Warcraft 3 are both 20 years old, and Starcraft is even older. this is crazy.
19:53:33 <esolangs> [[Hotel]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105350 * K * (+3996) created literally the entire page
19:54:07 <b_jonas> how did everything get so old?
19:54:37 <b_jonas> I mean those are games with 3D graphics!
19:54:54 <b_jonas> AoM and Warcraft 3 that is
20:00:43 <esolangs> [[Hotel]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105351&oldid=105350 * K * (+26) added stuff
20:00:58 <esolangs> [[Hotel]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105352&oldid=105351 * K * (-17) 
20:22:56 <esolangs> [[Brainfault]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105353&oldid=89796 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+172) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the brainfault programming language on GitHub.
20:23:21 <esolangs> [[Brainfault]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105354&oldid=105353 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+179) Added categories to the page.
20:24:39 <esolangs> [[User:Nurdle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105355&oldid=105340 * Nurdle * (+8) /* Interpreters */
20:28:44 <esolangs> [[User:Nurdle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105356&oldid=105355 * Nurdle * (+210) /* Interpreters */
20:29:58 <esolangs> [[Brainfault]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105357&oldid=105354 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+533) Introduced an examples compact of three initial members, one being an infinite cat program, the other two contrasting variants of the truth-machine.
20:40:05 <b_jonas> TIL that Saturn has a pair of moons with an interesting orbit. Janus (150 km diameter) and Epimetheus (100 km diameter) go around Jupiter every 17 hours or so. for four years, Epimetheus is orbiting a little bit faster than Janus, so that it laps Epimetheus after 2000 orbits. then they bounce on each other gravitationally, so for the next four years Epimetheus is going very slightly slower than Janus. 
20:40:11 <b_jonas> then Janus laps Epimetheus after 2000 orbits, they bounce again and they're back to the start.
20:41:30 <b_jonas> this sounds quite cool, we should get a pair of moons around earth in a similar configuration.
21:38:40 <esolangs> [[4BOD]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105358&oldid=87542 * Salpynx * (+25) /* Truth Machine */
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21:43:04 <esolangs> [[UnholyC]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105359&oldid=105335 * Nurdle * (-43) /* Queueing */
21:51:24 <esolangs> [[UnholyC]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105360&oldid=105359 * Nurdle * (+207) 
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22:50:37 <esolangs> [[EsoFur]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105361&oldid=105302 * TaserTheFox * (+699) Turns out, I forgot to include the command to declare a variable; New commands
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23:22:06 <esolangs> [[Brainfault]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105362&oldid=105357 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+377) Subsumed the three previous example program into the newly introduced examples section and preceded each with an explanatory paragraph.
23:25:34 <esolangs> [[Brainfault]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105363&oldid=105362 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+3) Embedded a hyperlink to the brainfuck article in the preamble.
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00:05:16 <esolangs> [[1231]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105364 * Earthrulerr * (+1381) full
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00:09:50 <esolangs> [[1231]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105367&oldid=105366 * Earthrulerr * (-4) 
00:12:17 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105368&oldid=105343 * Earthrulerr * (+111) /* General languages */
00:12:37 <esolangs> [[1231]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105369&oldid=105367 * Earthrulerr * (+7) 
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00:17:40 <esolangs> [[User:Earthrulerr]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105379&oldid=105378 * Earthrulerr * (-40) 
00:22:08 <esolangs> [[User:Earthrulerr]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105380&oldid=105379 * Earthrulerr * (+115) 
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02:01:00 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105381&oldid=105368 * Earthrulerr * (-18) /* General languages */
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02:18:57 <nurdle> bruh
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02:28:10 <nurdle> dead chat
02:33:29 <esolangs> [[Bidiroop]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105382&oldid=103168 * BoundedBeans * (+155) Added proper deadfish zeroing
02:34:28 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105383&oldid=105123 * BoundedBeans * (+997) Added Bidiroop
02:37:01 <esolangs> [[1231]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105384&oldid=105369 * Earthrulerr * (-1) 
02:41:57 <esolangs> [[THIS PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE IS LITERALLY ALL NUMBERS]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105385 * Earthrulerr * (+1185) Created page with "Author: [[User:Earthrulerr]] You can access a editor at [https://replit.com/@EarthRulerr/TPLN-THIS-PROGRAMMING-LANGUAGE-IS-LITERALLY-ALL-NUMBERS?v=1 here]. '''TPLN''' consists of only numbers in its tags. '''TPLN''' is [[12
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02:44:02 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105386&oldid=105381 * Earthrulerr * (+109) /* General languages */
02:44:53 <esolangs> [[User:Earthrulerr]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105387&oldid=105380 * Earthrulerr * (+60) /* Esolangs: */
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05:19:18 <esolangs> [[Classtennis]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105388&oldid=102749 * BoundedBeans * (+268) Changed input, added type detection, made commands easier to read
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05:20:32 <esolangs> [[Classtennis]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105389&oldid=105388 * BoundedBeans * (+7) Unsegmented standard library overview
05:21:04 <esolangs> [[Classtennis]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105390&oldid=105389 * BoundedBeans * (+1) 
05:21:11 <esolangs> [[Brainfuckest]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105391 * Nurdle * (+557) Created page with "'''Brainfuckest''' is an esoteric programming "language" that represents brainfuck programs using base 69. The valid characters are: <code>0123456789qwertyuiopasdfghjklzxcvbnmQWERTYUIOPASDFGHJKLZXCVBNM ,.?!;:</code>, these are in order (including the space between ",
05:21:52 <esolangs> [[User:Nurdle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105392&oldid=105356 * Nurdle * (+20) /* Esolangs */
05:21:54 <esolangs> [[Classtennis]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105393&oldid=105390 * BoundedBeans * (+2) 
05:22:15 <esolangs> [[User:Nurdle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105394&oldid=105392 * Nurdle * (+34) /* Implementations */
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05:24:23 <esolangs> [[Brainfuckest]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105395&oldid=105391 * Nurdle * (+174) 
05:27:10 <esolangs> [[Classtennis]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105396&oldid=105393 * BoundedBeans * (+120) Changed output, fixed example descriptions
05:29:54 <nurdle> b
05:31:42 <esolangs> [[Brainfuckest]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105397&oldid=105395 * Nurdle * (+9) 
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05:38:22 <esolangs> [[EsoFur]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105398&oldid=105361 * TaserTheFox * (+63) something for multiplying until we can think of something better
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07:17:26 <esolangs> [[Hotel]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105399&oldid=105352 * K * (+39) 
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07:53:17 <shachaf> int-e: So how come no one talks about pivots as as a change of basis except people writing about LP?
07:53:29 <shachaf> It seems like a great view for e.g. all these erasure coding things.
07:57:26 <int-e> Probably a difference between using linear algebra as a tool or as a framework for thinking about problems.
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08:02:24 <shachaf> Which is which?
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08:03:29 <int-e> Oh and the social thing... research areas form islands with their own dialects, their own way of presenting things. So even if a coding theory paper author has a particular view on this, they'll often stick to the standard ways that the peers (potential reviewers) are familiar with.
08:04:31 <int-e> shachaf: Good question, but I think that the basis view is more abstract, so closer to the framework end of the spectrum.
08:11:53 <shachaf> For example, the inverse Vandermonde matrix thing is about switching your input from a [1,x,x^2,...] basis to a [f(0),f(1),f(2),...] basis.
08:12:01 <shachaf> Which is roughly the thing you said already.
08:12:34 <shachaf> I guess people use row operations more than column operations, and probably those more often correspond to switching the output basis.
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09:55:08 <shachaf> Hmm, how should I think of this when doing row operations rather than column operations, actually?
09:55:50 <shachaf> In the standard phrasing, you can augment a matrix with extra columns and do pivots with row operations, or with extra rows and do pivots with column operations.
09:56:35 <shachaf> For adding extra rows, I can think of it as adding some extra outputs corresponding to the things you want, and then doing pivots to express the input basis in terms of the thing you have. But what is it for the other case? Adding extra inputs?
10:04:01 <shachaf> I guess that's what the simplex thing does, and then it makes all the basis values to 0, but I still feel like I'm missing something compared to the other version.
10:14:20 <shachaf> Sorry, makes the non-basis values equal to 0.
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11:55:38 <shachaf> Say you have some equations like ax+by = U; cx+dy = V
11:56:01 <shachaf> You can write something like
11:56:08 <shachaf> a b 1 0
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11:56:11 <shachaf> c d 0 1
11:56:35 <shachaf> Which I guess you can think of as a U/V basis?
11:57:21 <shachaf> But if you apply that to [x y U V] it computes [2U 2V], which is presumably not what you want. What do you want?
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12:11:03 <esolangs> [[Hotel]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105400&oldid=105399 * K * (+345) 
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13:26:37 <cakeprophet> any esolangs based on fuzzy set logic and/or quantum and/or biological processes?
13:30:17 <cakeprophet> specifically thinking of L-fuzzy sets and neutrosophic fuzzy sets
13:33:38 <cakeprophet> I'm actually struggling to find anything about axiomatic fuzzy sets other than a few recent papers on it.
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13:40:27 <cakeprophet> ah "constructive fuzzy set" is what I should be searching for
13:41:45 <esolangs> [[THIS PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE IS LITERALLY ALL NUMBERS]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105401&oldid=105385 * Earthrulerr * (+22) /* EXAMPLES */
13:42:25 <esolangs> [[THIS PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE IS LITERALLY ALL NUMBERS]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105402&oldid=105401 * Earthrulerr * (+0) /* EXAMPLES */
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13:47:19 <cakeprophet> kind of interested in the concept of using posets as the domain for a fuzzy set membership function
13:58:04 <esolangs> [[Brainfuckest]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105403&oldid=105397 * Nurdle * (+1007) 
13:58:39 <esolangs> [[Brainfuckest]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105404&oldid=105403 * Nurdle * (+11) /* How it Works */
14:00:31 <esolangs> [[Brainfuckest]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105405&oldid=105404 * Nurdle * (+4) /* How it Works */
14:01:10 <esolangs> [[Brainfuckest]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105406&oldid=105405 * Nurdle * (+0) /* How it Works */
14:01:46 <esolangs> [[Brainfuckest]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105407&oldid=105406 * Nurdle * (+25) /* How it Works */
14:03:00 <esolangs> [[Brainfuckest]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105408&oldid=105407 * Nurdle * (+0) /* How it Works */
14:03:22 <esolangs> [[Brainfuckest]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105409&oldid=105408 * Nurdle * (+4) 
14:03:57 <esolangs> [[User:Nurdle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105410&oldid=105394 * Nurdle * (+41) /* Esolangs */
14:11:44 <cakeprophet> antimatroids could be interesting since they can be modeled as both a formal language and a poset of paths. so then the membership function of an L-fuzzy set could be over the domain of these paths
14:36:03 <cakeprophet> just realized this is basically what a regular expression is except instead of true/false you get a path representing how close the string is to matching
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16:39:00 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Rehydratedmango *  New user account
16:45:30 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105411&oldid=105324 * Rehydratedmango * (+251) 
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17:42:15 <esolangs> [[User:Rehydratedmango]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105412 * Rehydratedmango * (+27) my page
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19:04:50 <esolangs> [[ABFC (Another BrainFuck Clone)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105413&oldid=105349 * Nurdle * (+18) 
19:05:03 <esolangs> [[ABFC (Another BrainFuck Clone)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105414&oldid=105413 * Nurdle * (-7) 
19:05:20 <esolangs> [[UnholyC]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105415&oldid=105360 * Nurdle * (+18) 
19:05:36 <esolangs> [[Brainfuckest]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105416&oldid=105409 * Nurdle * (+18) 
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19:37:02 <esolangs> [[Hello, golf!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105417&oldid=92025 * A casual user * (+27) 
19:37:35 <esolangs> [[Hello, golf!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105418&oldid=105417 * A casual user * (+1) 
19:39:26 <esolangs> [[Numberlist]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105419&oldid=103964 * A casual user * (+5) 
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19:51:59 <esolangs> [[ABG]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105420&oldid=98381 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+167) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the ABG and ABGAD programming languages on GitHub and changed the category tag Unimplemented to Implemented.
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19:56:02 <esolangs> [[ABG]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105421&oldid=105420 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+446) Introduced an examples section compact of two initial members, the first being an infinitely repeating cat program, the second a truth-machine.
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20:00:07 <esolangs> [[ABG]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105422&oldid=105421 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+101) Rectified the b command description which suggested that the cell pointer, rather than the cell value, should be decremented; and improved the instruction table's diction and orthography.
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20:02:13 <esolangs> [[ABG]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105423&oldid=105422 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+24) Amended an instance of cacography and reformulated the preamble.
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20:03:49 <esolangs> [[ABG]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105424&oldid=105423 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+48) Added the two category tags Stack-based and Low-level.
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20:25:39 <esolangs> [[Oxon]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105425&oldid=104129 * A casual user * (-292) 
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20:39:21 <esolangs> [[Oxon]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105426&oldid=105425 * A casual user * (-1) 
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21:13:04 <esolangs> [[ABG]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105427&oldid=105424 * Kaveh Yousefi * (-14) Moved the two new examples from the erroneously duplicated examples section to the previously exant one, concomitantly deleting the supererogatory entity.
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00:52:41 <esolangs> [[User:Earthrulerr]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105428&oldid=105387 * Earthrulerr * (-10) /* Links: */
00:53:42 <esolangs> [[User talk:Earthrulerr]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105429&oldid=103920 * Earthrulerr * (+4) 
01:26:01 <esolangs> [[Gar/99 bottles]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105430 * Masalt * (+3702) Created page with "99 Bottles of Beer in gar:  >>>>>>>>>>  :  *  ^  ~~  >>>>>>>>>>  >>>  *  >>  +  $  >>>>>>>>>>  :  *  <<  +  :  >>>>>>>>>>>>>  +  :  >>>>>  +  :  :  <<<<<<<<  +  :  <<<<<<<  +  :  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>  +  :  $$  &  <<<<  +  :  <<<<<<<<<  +  :  $$  &  <<<<  +  :  >>>  +  
01:26:22 <esolangs> [[Gar/99 bottles]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105431&oldid=105430 * Masalt * (+14) 
01:28:46 <esolangs> [[Gar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105432&oldid=105310 * Masalt * (+94) /* Examples */
01:29:15 <esolangs> [[Gar/99 bottles]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105433&oldid=105431 * Masalt * (+4) 
01:30:49 <esolangs> [[Gar/99 bottles]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105434&oldid=105433 * Masalt * (+6) 
01:54:03 <esolangs> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (nonalphabetic and A-M)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105435&oldid=105085 * Masalt * (+319) /* Gammaplex */
01:57:22 <esolangs> [[Gar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105436&oldid=105432 * Masalt * (+1) /* Cat */
02:06:49 <esolangs> [[Gar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105437&oldid=105436 * Masalt * (+4) /* Cat */
02:35:35 <esolangs> [[English*]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105438 * Earthrulerr * (+792) Created page with ":''Not to be confused with [[wikipedia:Microdata Corporation#ENGLISH (programming language)|ENGLISH]], a (non-esoteric) SQL-like programming language used in the old Pick operating system, or [[~English]], an esoteric attempt at using a natural language as a program
02:37:14 <esolangs> [[SANTA]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105439&oldid=104635 * Earthrulerr * (+44) 
02:37:28 <esolangs> [[SANTA]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105440&oldid=105439 * Earthrulerr * (+0) 
02:40:57 <esolangs> [[User:Earthrulerr]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105441&oldid=105428 * Earthrulerr * (+18) /* Esolangs: */
02:41:29 <esolangs> [[English*]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105442&oldid=105438 * Earthrulerr * (+32) 
02:42:57 <esolangs> [[English*]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105443&oldid=105442 * Earthrulerr * (+152) 
02:43:09 <esolangs> [[English*]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105444&oldid=105443 * Earthrulerr * (-5) 
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04:26:56 <esolangs> [[Triliteral]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105445 * Ecatmur * (+7747) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Triliteral /  /  |paradigms=imperative, literate, polyglossal, homoiconic, concatenative, [[:Category:Low-level|low-level]], [[:Category:Thematic|thematic]], [[:Category:Self-modifying|self-modifying]] |author=[[User:Ecatmur]] |year=[[:Catego
04:27:52 <esolangs> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105446&oldid=105334 * Ecatmur * (+17) /* T */
04:29:41 <esolangs> [[Talk:Forte]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105447&oldid=70819 * BoundedBeans * (+2045) 
04:31:40 <esolangs> [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105448 * Ecatmur * (+24) Redirected page to [[Triliteral]]
04:31:46 <esolangs> [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105449 * Ecatmur * (+24) Redirected page to [[Triliteral]]
04:32:12 <esolangs> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105450&oldid=105446 * Ecatmur * (+30) /* Non-alphabetic */
04:33:09 <esolangs> [[Triliteral]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105451&oldid=105445 * Ecatmur * (+23) /* 99 bottles of beer */ fix direction
04:34:13 <esolangs> [[Triliteral]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105452&oldid=105451 * Ecatmur * (+6) /* Overview */
04:35:12 <esolangs> [[Triliteral]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105453&oldid=105452 * Ecatmur * (+118) /* Style guide */
04:37:42 <esolangs> [[Triliteral]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105454&oldid=105453 * Ecatmur * (+161) /* 99 bottles of beer */
04:42:11 <esolangs> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (nonalphabetic and A-M)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105455&oldid=105435 * Ecatmur * (+709) Add  and 
04:43:02 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105456&oldid=105283 * Ecatmur * (+354) Add  and 
04:43:57 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105457&oldid=105383 * Ecatmur * (+2078) Add  and 
04:44:57 <esolangs> [[Triliteral]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105458&oldid=105454 * Ecatmur * (-8) /* Overview */
04:46:20 <esolangs> [[Triliteral]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105459&oldid=105458 * Ecatmur * (+225) /* Cat program */
04:48:48 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105460&oldid=105457 * Ecatmur * (+170) /*  */ add translation
04:49:31 <esolangs> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (nonalphabetic and A-M)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105461&oldid=105455 * Ecatmur * (+102) /*  */ add translation
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06:32:10 <int-e> fungot: is it off-by-one error day again?
06:32:11 <fungot> int-e: s/ who ever/ fnord content-type: text/ fnord)
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08:10:59 <Taneb> I live!
08:12:45 <int-e> Taneb: are you also hunted by off-by-one errors today?
08:12:49 <int-e> or haunted
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08:26:17 <Taneb> int-e: I've defeated the off by one errors and am now plagued by far more confusing errors
08:26:56 <Taneb> I know the weakness of one of the errors pursuing me, but I know there must be more beyond that one
08:34:04 <int-e> Okay, I have a more proper solution for part 2 now, almost pretty.
08:34:11 <int-e> So much time down the drain though.
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13:03:32 <fizzie> int-e: It was an off-by-one-ish error day for me as well.
13:03:42 <fizzie> And then off-by-two-in-the-other-direction.
13:07:45 <fizzie> Think I'll need to invest in a proper part 2 as well, if only to make https://zem.fi/tmp/aoc/gobench.time.html look slightly less ridiculous. But maybe not during the workday.
13:07:47 <int-e> Seems to be quite twisty too (not much of a surprise I guess, since part 1 could be done totally naively I think... but not part 2)
13:09:20 <int-e> Hmm, what language is that?
13:09:36 <fizzie> It's in Go.
13:09:56 <fizzie> I used to have a >3s 2016-5 solution, which was a terrible outlier in that graph.
13:10:03 <int-e> My first solution took 4.3s for me, in Haskell, compiled.
13:10:25 <fizzie> See, and people complain Go is slow.
13:10:55 <int-e> the rewrite is instantaneous when compiled, 0.2s interpreted.
13:11:14 <int-e> (half of which is interpreter startup, actually)
13:12:34 <int-e> But the second solutions also took quite a bit longer to write and debug (even though it's less code) :P
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13:14:46 <int-e> It was a cute problem. I liked yesterday's too (but didn't bother with going for a more efficient solution)
13:14:55 <fizzie> Go's got this built-in benchmarking facility as part of the unit test support, so https://github.com/fis/aoc/blob/main/glue/testing.go allows me to do `go test -bench=. -benchtime=30s ./2022/days` to make it run each day's solution in a loop for 30+ seconds to get relatively accurate timings for even the faster solutions.
13:16:28 <int-e> I'd probably need like 4 lines of boilerplate code for that, using https://hackage.haskell.org/package/criterion
13:17:47 <int-e> Well, a bit more because I'd actually have to redo input handling... eh, I really don't care enough.
13:21:33 <fizzie> For part 2 of yesterday, V qvq n guvat jurer vafgrnq bs fvzhyngvat gur fnaq, V tb gbc-gb-obggbz naq pbzchgr nyy gur "funqbjf" (fdhnerf jurer gur guerr barf fgenvtug naq qvntbanyyl nobir ner oybpxrq), gura fhogenpg gur nzbhag bs gubfr sebz gur fnaq pbar. Vg zvtug or znxvat fbzr nffhzcgvbaf, ohg jbexf sbe zl vachg.
13:23:14 <int-e> fizzie: yeah I realized that was possible but didn't actually go for it (jryy, V gubhtug vg jbhyq or rnfvre gb pbzchgr gur fnaq qverpgyl engure guna gur funqbj)
13:23:20 <fizzie> (Though the version that just trickled down the sand like in part 1 had perfectly acceptable performance already.)
13:24:00 <int-e> Nyfb, fbzrguvat fvzvyne fubhyq jbex sbe cneg 1, ohg bar unf gb or pnershy gb npghnyyl nppbhag sbe gur yrsg ovnf.
13:24:40 <fizzie> I remember spending a _lot_ of time debugging 2018-17, which the question page itself calls out too.
13:25:21 <int-e> I don't have any 2018 solutions.
13:26:08 <int-e> I guess it's similar in spirit
13:27:11 <int-e> Though at least part 1 looks like flooding would be preferrable to trickling, so it's different :P
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15:44:30 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * WalkingMyPetFishh *  New user account
15:47:24 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105462&oldid=105411 * WalkingMyPetFishh * (+197) 
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16:07:43 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move  * Nurdle *  moved [[UnholyC]] to [[Bruhfunk]]: Language name change
16:10:34 <esolangs> [[Bruhfunk]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105465&oldid=105463 * Nurdle * (-36) 
16:15:25 <esolangs> [[Gar/99 bottles]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105466&oldid=105434 * Masalt * (+4) 
16:17:50 <esolangs> [[Gar/99 bottles]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105467&oldid=105466 * Masalt * (-12) 
16:17:53 <esolangs> [[User:Nurdle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105468&oldid=105410 * Nurdle * (+60) /* Esolangs */
16:18:22 <esolangs> [[User:Nurdle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105469&oldid=105468 * Nurdle * (+1) /* Things I've Made */
16:19:08 <esolangs> [[ABFC (Another BrainFuck Clone)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105470&oldid=105414 * Nurdle * (+45) /* See Also */
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16:29:32 <esolangs> [[Gar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105471&oldid=105437 * Masalt * (+1) /* Cat */
17:19:54 <esolangs> [[Gar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105472&oldid=105471 * Masalt * (+0) /* Truth Machine */
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18:01:15 <b_jonas> oh wow
18:01:41 <b_jonas> this is the first time I got a captcha from Google web search. apparently I've been searching too much.
18:01:57 <b_jonas> or searching for unusually esoteric things or something like that
18:02:03 <b_jonas> I'm proud
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18:04:31 <int-e> b_jonas: did it tell you that your queries look like they come from a bot?
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18:06:08 <int-e> I got that a few years ago after manually adding maybe 5 -site:... or -inurl:... refinements to a query.
18:06:33 <int-e> (while not allowing cookies, which is probably also a factor in their determination)
18:21:24 <b_jonas> int-e: dunno, I clicked on the captcha quickly and if there was a detailed error message than I didn't read it
18:30:04 <esolangs> [[Queueue]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105473 * Rehydratedmango * (+2844) I am mostly copying the style of other articles on this wiki.
18:30:07 <esolangs> [[User:WalkingMyPetFishh]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105474 * WalkingMyPetFishh * (+8) Created page with "piss bag"
18:30:17 <b_jonas> whoa
18:30:32 <b_jonas> apparently someone is making a sequel to shapez.io, called shapez 2
18:30:48 <b_jonas> I haven't yet determined if it's by the same creator as shapez.io but it's likely
18:31:51 <b_jonas> int-e: ^
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18:38:23 <b_jonas> yes, it looks like it's tobspr, the creator of Shapez.io, who's making the sequel
18:38:26 <esolangs> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105475&oldid=105450 * Rehydratedmango * (+14) Adding Queueue
18:44:04 <esolangs> [[Gar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105476&oldid=105472 * Masalt * (+0) /* 99 Bottles of Beer */
18:52:24 <int-e> b_jonas: I knew about that, but it's too early to get excited about it.
18:52:30 <int-e> (for me at least)
18:53:20 <int-e> Some of the building blocks seem quite similar to the shapez.io ones, obviously with way fancier graphics.
18:59:19 <esolangs> [[User:Rehydratedmango]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105477&oldid=105412 * Rehydratedmango * (+22) 
19:03:23 <esolangs> [[Hotel]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105478&oldid=105400 * K * (+17) 
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19:45:15 <zzo38> I have gotten error messages from Google when trying to access pages of results beyond the first ten or twenty or something like that.
19:49:42 <fizzie> int-e: Hmm. For my "proper" part 2, V znqr n dhnqgerr, naq vg jbexf naq vf snfg (gragu bs n zvyyvfrpbaq sbe obgu cnegf gbtrgure), ohg V'z jbaqrevat vs V'z zvffvat fbzrguvat fvzcyre.
20:02:59 <esolangs> [[User:WalkingMyPetFishh]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105479&oldid=105474 * WalkingMyPetFishh * (+25) 
20:03:29 <esolangs> [[User:WalkingMyPetFishh]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105480&oldid=105479 * WalkingMyPetFishh * (-1) 
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20:53:21 <esolangs> [[Tile/Textile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105481&oldid=105284 * Dtp09 * (+83) /* Starting a program */
20:53:33 <esolangs> [[Tile/Textile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105482&oldid=105481 * Dtp09 * (+0) /* Opcodes */
20:53:44 <esolangs> [[Tile/Textile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105483&oldid=105482 * Dtp09 * (-7) /* Hello, World! */
20:58:44 <esolangs> [[Oxon]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105484&oldid=105426 * A casual user * (+2737) Added a guide on how to use the language (unfinished) and in general just making the wiki page more understandable
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22:52:22 <esolangs> [[Queueue]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105485&oldid=105473 * Rehydratedmango * (+54) change to "i"
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23:20:15 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105486&oldid=105460 * Masalt * (+313) /* Office VBA */
23:21:21 <esolangs> [[Gar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105487&oldid=105476 * Masalt * (+318) /* Examples */
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2022-12-16:

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00:44:05 <esolangs> [[Gar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105488&oldid=105487 * Masalt * (+40) 
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01:02:05 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Xxmlt *  New user account
01:03:26 <esolangs> [[Hotel]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105489&oldid=105478 * TaserTheFox * (+10) minor formatting fix
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03:38:07 <esolangs> [[Marble Machine]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105490 * Masalt * (+106) Created page with "{{stub}}{{wip}} Marble Machine is an two dimensional esoteric programming language made by [[User:masalt]]"
03:40:21 <esolangs> [[Marble Machine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105491&oldid=105490 * Masalt * (+1) 
03:40:33 <esolangs> [[Marble Machine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105492&oldid=105491 * Masalt * (-1) 
03:45:41 <esolangs> [[User:Dtp09]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105493&oldid=105210 * Dtp09 * (+21) /* languages i made */
03:47:13 <esolangs> [[Tile/Textile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105494&oldid=105483 * Dtp09 * (+43) /* Compiler */
04:41:36 <int-e> fizzie: [AoC day 15 spoiler] http://paste.debian.net/1264228/ -- my fast but still half-assed approach to part 2
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05:16:46 <fizzie> Mm. I did the thing in the first paragraph too.
05:19:44 <fizzie> Arguably cheated even more in Burlesque part 1 though, ol whfg nffhzvat nyy gur vagreinyf va cneg 1 jvyy zretr gbtrgure jvgu ab tncf, fb whfg gbbx znk-zva+1 sebz gur raqcbvagf.
05:20:14 <fizzie> (Part 2 in Burlesque TBD, and not going to start with today, wakeup time in four hours or so.)
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06:56:40 <int-e> Hmm, I underestimated today's part 2.
06:59:52 <int-e> Well at least it takes under 10 minutes now.
07:15:04 <int-e> Ah, 1:15 now, that's much better.
07:18:47 <int-e> I think I'll leave it at that.
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08:36:24 <esolangs> [[Oxon]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105495&oldid=105484 * A casual user * (+639) Finishing up some things
08:56:17 <FireFly> haven't done today's yet, but I think I have a solution to part 1 in my head.. will have to wait till later to implement it though
08:56:38 <FireFly> seems we're getting into fun graph problems :p
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11:59:10 <wib_jonas> did you know that so many of these big symbolic and numeric software packages are really old, as in started before 1989? Macsyma, Matlab, PARI/GP, GAP, Maple, Derive, Mathematica, they're all from before 1989. I'm shocked.
12:01:36 <wib_jonas> Sagemath, Julia, perl PDL, Python Numpy, and *possibly* R are the ones that didn't start in historic times, but even those aren't new: PDL apparently started in 1997, and Numpy in 2006.
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14:37:45 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105496&oldid=105456 * Ecatmur * (+4) fix levels
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15:07:29 <esolangs> [[Bruhfunk]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105497&oldid=105465 * Nurdle * (+86) 
15:17:08 <esolangs> [[Bruhfunk]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105498&oldid=105497 * Nurdle * (+149) /* Queueing */
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15:34:51 <esolangs> [[Queueue]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105499&oldid=105485 * Rehydratedmango * (+3) /* Fibonacci */
16:00:04 <esolangs> [[Bruhfunk]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105500&oldid=105498 * Nurdle * (+374) /* Examples */
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18:36:28 <esolangs> [[Kak]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105501&oldid=99602 * Rehydratedmango * (+1695) Adding a C interpreter
18:41:21 <esolangs> [[User:Masalt]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105502&oldid=105305 * Masalt * (+20) /* Coming Soon */
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20:09:30 <b_jonas> `olist 1272
20:09:32 <HackEso> olist <https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1272.html>: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
20:12:23 <esolangs> [[Hotel]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105503&oldid=105489 * K * (+26) 
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20:16:50 <JAA> 262
20:16:54 <JAA> Oops
20:19:42 <esolangs> [[Hotel]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105504&oldid=105503 * K * (-221) 
20:20:55 <esolangs> [[Hotel]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105505&oldid=105504 * K * (+42) 
20:24:00 <esolangs> [[Hotel]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105506&oldid=105505 * K * (-18) 
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20:40:00 <esolangs> [[Hotel]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105507&oldid=105506 * K * (+2) 
20:44:06 <esolangs> [[Hotel]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105508&oldid=105507 * K * (+72) 
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22:45:32 <fizzie> int-e: https://0x0.st/onDD.txt and I very much don't want to leave it at that, but... eh, maybe I'll get back to it some other day.
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23:26:26 <int-e> fizzie: I suspect that if I keep my algorithm but use another language with better associative maps, it'll be about that fast. Maybe later...
23:28:11 <esolangs> [[Sailing By]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105509 * Ecatmur * (+14094) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Sailing By |paradigms=imperative, [[:Category:Low-level|low-level]], [[:Category:Pseudonatural|pseudonatural]], [[:Category:Thematic|thematic]] |author=[[User:Ecatmur]] |year=[[:Category:2022|2022]] |typesys=untyped |memsys=[[:Category:Cell-
23:28:33 <esolangs> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105510&oldid=105475 * Ecatmur * (+17) /* S */ Add Sailing By
23:28:57 <esolangs> [[Sailing By]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105511&oldid=105509 * Ecatmur * (+4) /* Example (Hello, world!) */
23:34:59 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105512&oldid=105496 * Ecatmur * (+1362) Add Sailing By
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2022-12-17:

00:30:56 <esolangs> [[Sailing By]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105513&oldid=105511 * Ecatmur * (+6) /* Syntax */
00:31:30 <esolangs> [[Sailing By]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105514&oldid=105513 * Ecatmur * (+1) /* Syntax */
00:32:08 <esolangs> [[Sailing By]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105515&oldid=105514 * Ecatmur * (+2) /* Syntax */
00:34:50 <esolangs> [[Sailing By]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105516&oldid=105515 * Ecatmur * (-4) /* Syntax */
00:35:04 <esolangs> [[Sailing By]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105517&oldid=105516 * Ecatmur * (+0) /* Syntax */
00:36:09 <esolangs> [[Sailing By]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105518&oldid=105517 * Ecatmur * (+0) /* Semantics */
00:36:26 <esolangs> [[Sailing By]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105519&oldid=105518 * Ecatmur * (-2) /* Semantics */
00:36:56 <esolangs> [[Sailing By]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105520&oldid=105519 * Ecatmur * (+4) /* Semantics */
00:38:27 <esolangs> [[Sailing By]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105521&oldid=105520 * Ecatmur * (+92) /* Semantics */
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01:17:22 <esolangs> [[Marble Machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105522&oldid=105492 * Masalt * (-1) 
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01:38:04 <esolangs> [[Marble Machine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105523&oldid=105522 * Masalt * (+93) 
01:46:53 <esolangs> [[Marble Machine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105524&oldid=105523 * Masalt * (+18) 
02:03:32 <esolangs> [[Marble Machine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105525&oldid=105524 * Masalt * (+74) /* Examples */
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02:48:35 <esolangs> [[Marble Machine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105526&oldid=105525 * Masalt * (+80) /* Examples */
02:49:28 <esolangs> [[Marble machine]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105527 * Masalt * (+28) Redirected page to [[Marble Machine]]
03:31:32 <esolangs> [[Marble Machine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105528&oldid=105526 * Masalt * (+31) /* Examples */
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06:24:48 <zzo38> In Magic: the Gathering, what happens when a suspended Attraction runs out of counters? Does it go to the junkyard, or remain exiled? Can it trigger anything that triggers when casting a spell, if it is even possible to cast it in this way?
06:26:07 <esolangs> [[Marble Machine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105529&oldid=105528 * Masalt * (+101) /* Examples */
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08:47:01 <int-e> fizzie: I rewrote yesterday's solution in Rust and it takes just under 5s on my input. (I wonder how different the instances difficulties are... https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/aoc-2022-16.txt is mine)
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11:45:06 <fizzie> int-e: I tweaked my implementation (not much the algorithm) a little, and it now runs in 3.3s on my input, and apparently 3.1s on yours.
11:45:46 <int-e> nice
11:46:07 <fizzie> https://0x0.st/on5M.txt is my puzzle input if you want to check if it's the same way around for you.
11:48:45 <int-e> wow that takes 9s for me.
11:49:59 <int-e> My pruning is less effective for your instance.
11:51:13 <int-e> http://paste.debian.net/1264371/
11:54:12 <int-e> I could still improve that.
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16:55:40 <esolangs> [[Shakespeare]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105530&oldid=104250 * A casual user * (-8) 
17:01:48 <esolangs> [[Shakespeare]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105531&oldid=105530 * A casual user * (+69) Made it a little clearer
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17:04:36 <esolangs> [[THIS PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE IS LITERALLY ALL NUMBERS]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105532&oldid=105402 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+25) Category
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19:04:20 <esolangs> [[Marble Machine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105533&oldid=105529 * Masalt * (+40) /* Factorial */
19:28:45 <fizzie> ChatGPT is just bizarre when you try to ask it for maths stuff. Even if it says something wrong, and you call it out on it, it's all "oh, right, sorry, my mistake", and then produces an even more nonsense answer: https://zem.fi/tmp/badmath.png
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19:49:06 <zzo38> What would be the result when asking a nonexisting programming language, a nonexisting version of a programming language, a not very well known programming language (old or new), a code for something that the programming language doesn't have, an obscure file format or character encoding, a language not in Unicode, etc?
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20:01:46 <fizzie> I think some people have asked it to come up with nonexisting programming languages successfully, at least. But sometimes it just says "I don't know anything about that, and I can't browse the Internet for more information".
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20:41:20 <esolangs> [[Marble Machine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105534&oldid=105533 * Masalt * (+122) /* Examples */
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21:12:27 <esolangs> [[Marble Machine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105535&oldid=105534 * Masalt * (+35) /* Examples */
21:16:27 <esolangs> [[User:Masalt]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105536&oldid=105502 * Masalt * (+33) /* Languages */
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21:16:59 <esolangs> [[User:Masalt/]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105537&oldid=97521 * Masalt * (+29) /* masalt's top languages: */
21:17:11 <esolangs> [[User:Masalt/]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105538&oldid=105537 * Masalt * (+0) /* masalt's top languages: */
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21:59:20 <esolangs> [[A?b.]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105539&oldid=97823 * Masalt * (-20) 
22:04:41 <esolangs> [[Sailing By]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105540&oldid=105521 * Ecatmur * (+73) /* Syntax */ warnings of gales in all areas (unlikely, but...)
22:17:43 <esolangs> [[Bruhfunk]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105541&oldid=105500 * Nurdle * (+2) 
22:21:26 <esolangs> [[ABFC (Another BrainFuck Clone)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105542&oldid=105470 * Nurdle * (-281) 
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22:24:49 <esolangs> [[Triliteral]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105543&oldid=105459 * Ecatmur * (+14) /* Overview */
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22:52:46 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * Ecatmur *  uploaded "[[File:UK shipping forecast zones.png]]": By Emoscopes - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=1978309
22:53:45 <esolangs> [[Sailing By]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105545&oldid=105540 * Ecatmur * (+142) /* Syntax */ add map
22:54:30 <esolangs> [[Sailing By]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105546&oldid=105545 * Ecatmur * (+0) move map to semantics
22:55:05 <esolangs> [[Sailing By]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105547&oldid=105546 * Ecatmur * (+13) /* Semantics */
22:57:46 <esolangs> [[Sailing By]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105548&oldid=105547 * Ecatmur * (+247) /* Syntax */ sub-area exceptions
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2022-12-18:

00:07:57 <esolangs> [[///]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105549&oldid=102941 * Tanner Swett * (+266) Additional language name: Slashalash
00:08:20 <esolangs> [[Slashalash]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105550 * Tanner Swett * (+17) Redirected page to [[///]]
01:09:21 <esolangs> [[lang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105551&oldid=104885 * Salpynx * (+3) /* Reqiurements */ fix typos
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08:14:55 <esolangs> [[Shakespeare]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105552&oldid=105531 * A casual user * (+155) Making the commands easier to understand and fixing a "your" instead of "you" spelling mistake. I'll add more to this language in the future.
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08:25:34 <esolangs> [[Shakespeare]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105553&oldid=105552 * A casual user * (+152) Adding more examples of if conditions in Shakespeare to eliminate much confusion.
08:27:51 <esolangs> [[Shakespeare]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105554&oldid=105553 * A casual user * (+1281) Made the link to the interpreter go directly there
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12:00:22 <esolangs> [[How to learn this language]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105555 * Username1234 * (+865) Created page with "== Introduction ==  '''How to learn this language''' is a joke language.   Actually, the name of the language is of infinity length. You can use "How to learn this language" to replace the "this language" in the name. So '''How to learn "How to le
12:02:45 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105556&oldid=105386 * Username1234 * (+76) 
12:05:19 <esolangs> [[How to learn "How to learn this language"]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105557 * Username1234 * (+40) Redirected page to [[How to learn this language]]
12:10:56 <esolangs> [[How to learn this language]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105558&oldid=105555 * Username1234 * (+55) 
12:16:36 <esolangs> [[How to learn this language]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105559&oldid=105558 * Username1234 * (+574) 
12:18:33 <esolangs> [[How to learn this language]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105560&oldid=105559 * Username1234 * (-9) 
12:18:52 <esolangs> [[How to learn this language]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105561&oldid=105560 * Username1234 * (+12) /* Output the name of the language (Whithout the quotation mark) */
12:19:47 <esolangs> [[How to learn this language]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105562&oldid=105561 * Username1234 * (+1) /* Output the name of the language (IN CAPITAL, Whithout the quotation mark) */
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12:46:12 <esolangs> [[User:Username1234]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105563&oldid=102828 * Username1234 * (+39) 
13:16:11 <myname> TIL: the artist "master boot record" has literal hidden tracks in its releases since "interrupt request"
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14:36:40 <b_jonas> fungot, in the Disney movie, how anywhere is Hercules ready to go to find where he belongs?
14:36:40 <fungot> b_jonas: " 4" the true fnord?) of the book
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17:31:30 <int-e> `"
17:31:32 <HackEso> 1/1:6) <oerjan> what, you mean that wasn't your real name?  <Warrigal> Gosh, I guess it is. I never realized that. \ 885) <shachaf> Taneb: STOP TRYING TO GET LENS INTO EVERYTHING  <shachaf> Bike: You should use lens!  <Taneb> NEVER  <Bike> shachaf: i'm getting mixed messages here
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18:05:50 <esolangs> [[How to learn this language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105564&oldid=105562 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+115) Categories
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18:27:55 <esolangs> [[Talk:Underload]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105565&oldid=100109 * BoundedBeans * (+246) 
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19:12:09 <int-e> fungot: do you prefer your ints singed or unsinged?
19:12:09 <fungot> int-e: so you fnord change the dynamic environment of the macro's definition." isn't ctcp. " fnord
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21:30:52 <b_jonas> fungot: and what he go?
21:30:53 <fungot> b_jonas: ( well a theorem prover for purpose other than seeing what the hell does that description comes from? :)
21:31:16 <esolangs> [[Gar]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105566&oldid=105488 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+24) /* Implementations */ category
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21:37:55 <b_jonas> ``` hg log --removed -T "{rev}|{date|shortdate}\n" /hackenv/wisdom/password | tail # I was wondering how old the password is
21:37:58 <HackEso> 7526|2016-04-24 \ 7525|2016-04-24 \ 7370|2016-04-12 \ 7083|2016-03-05 \ 6625|2016-01-29 \ 5052|2014-10-14 \ 5006|2014-10-02 \ 5002|2014-10-02 \ 5001|2014-10-02 \ 4901|2014-09-28
21:41:00 <b_jonas> looks like it started to be a password of the month in 2016
21:46:23 <esolangs> [[McCulloch's third machine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105567&oldid=62988 * B jonas * (+115) external link
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23:19:02 <b_jonas> oh nice
23:19:42 <b_jonas> that series starting with 42 that I'm trying for decades not to learn, it's apparently not in the OEIS
23:20:50 <b_jonas> despite that it would fit because it's a sequence of integers with at least four terms (I think there are even OEIS sequences with only three terms, even though that's against the rules)

2022-12-19:

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01:16:28 <esolangs> [[G arD^EN CorUtY@rD]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105568&oldid=101950 * Salpynx * (-1) /* See also */ fix indent
01:25:47 <FireFly> what is the series?
01:28:44 <b_jonas> FireFly: the numbers on the eye test chart that used to be used the most commonly in the middle two decades of my life. or just the numbers in the middle column. 42 is the biggest number on the top, and I'm trying very hard not to permanently remember what any of the other numbers are.
01:29:07 <FireFly> heh fair
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01:29:17 <b_jonas> it's not as critical now because the optometrist is now using a different set of charts
01:29:28 <b_jonas> which of course now I'm also trying not to remember
01:29:55 <FireFly> I guess there's an argument to make for standardising charts, but there's probably an argument to make for not doing so, too
01:30:01 <b_jonas> the 42 series is only used as an entrance exam for the eye doctor that I or the eye doctor don't actually care about
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02:03:05 <zzo38> For unofficial rules of Magic: the Gathering, do you think it would make sense for instants to gain flash as an intrinsic? (The rules already grant intrinsics to planeswalkers, and to lands that have basic land subtypes)
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03:13:11 <esolangs> [[Footsteps]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105569&oldid=91616 * Salpynx * (+229) /* Implementations */ Terse Python 3 implementation
03:19:11 <esolangs> [[G arD^EN CorUtY@rD]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105570&oldid=105568 * Salpynx * (+176) /* See also */ add python implementation
03:29:00 <esolangs> [[Thue-Mirr]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105571&oldid=75059 * Salpynx * (+0) /* External resources */ update link from Gist to github location
03:58:54 <esolangs> [[Talk:Footsteps]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105572&oldid=52161 * Salpynx * (+1082) Questioning why start 0 is 'undefined'
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08:12:56 <int-e> fizzie: Oh I figured out how to do day 16 in ~50ms. Today though... well, at least I got there.
08:21:12 <shachaf> Wow, I wouldn't even be able to read the question in 50ms. Very impressive.
08:38:56 <int-e> :-P
08:39:12 <int-e> I'd complain but I do this all the time too.
09:05:45 <int-e> (A quick reimplementation of today's part 2 in Rust takes 1m6s on the sample, 17s on my actual input. Surely there's some clever trick left to find...)
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10:30:11 <fizzie> I eventually did day 16 in 0.55s, but not with any particularly clever trick. Today I've not even looked at.
10:49:05 <int-e> > (3/4)^15
10:49:06 <lambdabot>  1.3363461010158062e-2
10:58:50 <int-e> In retrospect I made part 2 of day 16 too complicated, not realizing that one can build pretty directly on top of part 1.
10:59:13 <int-e> (without changing the part 1 code significantly)
10:59:56 <int-e> I have a bit manipulation trick for the additional code though.
11:00:09 <int-e> I'll leave it at this level of vagueness :)
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12:19:22 <fizzie> Well, if you're curious, what I did in day 16 was basically https://0x0.st/o5KY.txt (it's a mess).
12:21:32 <int-e> Ah, I considered doing that first thing but never got around to it. I did all the rest for my 5s-9s solution.
12:21:46 <int-e> I scrapped the last two steps to get under 1s.
12:22:36 <int-e> ("never got around to it"... as you point out, it makes a bit of a mess elsewhere in the pipeline)
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12:48:45 <esolangs> [[Shakespeare]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105573&oldid=105554 * A casual user * (+29) Fixing a mistake I made while editing
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13:26:17 <esolangs> [[Shakespeare]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105574&oldid=105573 * A casual user * (+168) /* Computational class */
13:29:04 <esolangs> [[Shakespeare]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105575&oldid=105574 * A casual user * (+2) 
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14:00:31 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105576&oldid=105486 * Olive * (+45) /* Lua */
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15:15:01 <esolangs> [[+]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105577&oldid=100875 * Olive * (+239) /* External resources */
15:21:19 <esolangs> [[+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105578&oldid=105577 * Olive * (+15) /* XENBLN */
15:24:46 <esolangs> [[+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105579&oldid=105578 * Olive * (+2) /* Lua */
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16:53:12 <wib_jonas> I've seen http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/ earlier about how small native executables can be, but http://www.phreedom.org/research/tinype/ is new to me
16:55:49 <int-e> Do the breadbox tinys still work? I seem to recall that the Linux kernel got pickier and started to reject them.
16:56:41 <int-e> `' bread
16:56:43 <HackEso> 97) <fungot> [...] i'm a law student so i am loving my bread machine
16:58:00 <wib_jonas> int-e: I don't know
17:18:00 <esolangs> [[Talk:Footsteps]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105580&oldid=105572 * Keymaker * (+1294) Reply.
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18:35:02 <tromp> regarding https://research.ibm.com/haifa/ponderthis/solutions/November2022.html does anyone know how to convert that equation into Pell form?
19:57:16 <esolangs> [[Quudo]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105581&oldid=105289 * SwitchU42 * (+13) 
20:06:07 <esolangs> [[Quudo]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105582&oldid=105581 * SwitchU42 * (+179) 
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22:33:01 <fizzie> int-e: I'm not feeling clever about today either. I did get it to run in 2.5s for my input (with a bit of cehavat hfvat na hccre obhaq rfgvzngr bs "nqq bar zber trbqr ebobg rirel zvahgr" naq n ybjre obhaq rfgvzngr bs "jung lbh'q trg ol xrrcvat rirelguvat gur fnzr ohg ohvyqvat arj trbqr ebobgf rirel gvzr lbh pna sbe gur erznvavat gvzr"), but that's all.
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2022-12-20:

00:23:42 <esolangs> [[Marble Machine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105583&oldid=105535 * Masalt * (+6) /* Factorial */
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04:34:19 <int-e> fizzie: The thing I realized for day 16 is that gur gjb ntragf npg vaqrcraqragyl (trarengvat frcnengr sybjf), nf ybat nf gurl arire bcra gur fnzr inyir, naq gung vf fbzrguvat bar pna rafher nsgre rahzrengvat gur orfg svany fgngrf sbe n fvatyr ntrag. Naq sbe n fvatyr ntrag, gur ahzore bs fgngrf qbrf abg rkcybqr arneyl nf zhpu (nf jr xabj sebz cneg 1).
04:40:44 <esolangs> [[Feta]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105584&oldid=83241 * Masalt * (+196) 
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08:31:19 <int-e> Ah, pointers are so much fun. (I managed to get today's part 2 down to 30ms. Not in Rust, in C++, because of excessive use of (raw) pointers.)
09:24:03 <int-e> fizzie: I found a few additional pruning opportunities for day 19, now it's 14ms for part 2 (sample and input). But yeah, nothing nice. Also everything I have is hard-coded for the particular dependency graph in that problem.
09:28:05 <fizzie> I ended up with ~350ms for day 19 altogether.
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09:38:20 <fizzie> As for day 16, I did notice gung vs lbh xarj va nqinapr juvpu fhofrg bs inyirf ner tbvat gb or bcrarq ol bar ntrag, lbh pbhyq eha cneg 1 hazbqvsvrq (sbe gung fhofrg bs inyirf), naq gura ntnva va gur pbzcyrzrag, naq nqq gur gjb ahzoref. Ohg gurer frrzrq gb or fb znal qvssrerag cnegvgvbavatf, gung qvqa'g vzzrqvngryl uryc.
09:41:00 <int-e> fizzie: Lrnu vg bayl cnlf bss orpnhfr lbh pna erhfr gur shyy frnepu erfhygf sbe gur frpbaq ntrag, vs lbh erzrzore gur frg bs bcrarq inyirf.
09:41:30 <int-e> (With some caveats concerning pruning... I have no pruning anymore.)
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12:17:54 <fizzie> For day 20 I got 170 ms total in Go from the fgenvtug-sbejneq qbhoyl yvaxrq yvfg ba gbc bs na neenl bs abqrf, naq vgrengvat gb gur orggre qverpgvba. All those pointer safety checks, I guess. Unless there's something better.
12:18:21 <fizzie> Also reminded me of https://adventofcode.com/2020/day/23 a bit.
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12:24:09 <fizzie> (I do wonder if you could use a fxvc yvfg fbeg bs n guvat though.)
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12:39:53 <int-e> V hfrq n ovanel gerr jvgu svkrq abqrf sbe gur yrnsf naq hc-yvaxf. N zrff...
12:40:17 <int-e> (but (ohg vg nibvqf gur yvarne fpna)
12:41:33 <int-e> Also that was the post-mortem; I did something way more naive for the first solution. The usual trade-off between writing code fast and writing fast code...
12:42:46 <int-e> V qvq abg gel gb onynapr gur gerr gubhtu, rkprcg qhevat vavgvnyvmngvba; gur vachgf frrzrq enaqbz rabhtu.
12:44:42 <int-e> I wonder whether your idea is simpler, hmm.
12:46:42 <fizzie> My input is exactly 5000 items; I was thinking V'q whfg nqq na nqqvgvbany ceri/arkg cbvagre gb rirel gubhfnaqgu abqr, hfr gubfr va gur yvarne fpna, naq gura svkhc gur nssrpgrq barf.
12:47:19 <fizzie> I don't think it's going to end up pretty, implementation-wise. And, well, will have to save that to post-workday.
12:48:13 <int-e> That doesn't sound so bad actually.
12:49:06 <fizzie> I guess you could also vafgrnq bs gelvat gb xrrc gur fxvc cbvagref rdhnyyl fcnprq, whfg erpbeq gur qvfgnapr gurl fxvc naq svk gubfr hc, zvtug or fvzcyre gb vzcyrzrag.
12:49:17 <int-e> (Don't think of it as a skip-list; rather, think of it as a fixed-size uniform index into the doubly linked list. I'd s/thousand/hundred/.)
12:49:20 <int-e> argh
12:49:30 <int-e> I meant to rot13 that
12:50:34 <int-e> fizzie: I think the first idea is a tad simpler, as long as you don't mind having sqrt(n) instead of log(n) asymptotically.
12:50:43 <int-e> (expected)
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15:26:35 <fizzie> int-e: Couldn't leave it alone, and it does seem to work; with a spacing of 50 (a little better than 100; a lot better than 1000) the Go code takes 14 ms. Had quite a bit of trouble getting the edge cases where the item being moved is part of the index either before or after the move (or both) correct.
15:26:59 <int-e> cool
15:27:12 <int-e> > sqrt 5000
15:27:14 <lambdabot>  70.71067811865476
15:27:53 <int-e> yeah, 100 makes sense if you pick the closer... fencepost, I guess
15:28:06 <fizzie> `factor 5000
15:28:07 <HackEso> 5000: 2 2 2 5 5 5 5
15:28:14 <int-e> hmm
15:29:05 <int-e> Oh wait that would suggest 50, but maintaining the lower part is more expensive per item. Yeah, 100 makes sense.
15:30:17 <int-e> I'm not thinking straight.
15:31:30 <int-e> Should've been "Oh wait that would suggest 100, but maintaining the lower part is more expensive per item. Yeah, 50 makes sense."
15:35:09 <int-e> fizzie: I have separate delete and insert operations, which reduces the risk of messing up the edge cases. In your context that would probably be a bit more expensive though.
15:35:50 <int-e> But at least today we had an interesting underlying data structure problem. :)
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15:42:09 <fizzie> Numbers just for completeness: https://0x0.st/o5mv.txt
15:43:17 <int-e> neat
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17:27:08 <esolangs> [[Shut up]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105585 * Masalt * (+103) Created page with "{{lowercase}}{{stub}} {{WIP}} '''shut up''' is a joke [[brainfuck]] derivative made by [[User:masalt]]."
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18:07:59 <Sgeo> OCaml 5 released. Is its effect handlers a good excuse to learn OCaml?
18:09:42 <Sgeo> ...I'd have to learn OCaml itself to get to the fun stuff
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18:28:43 <esolangs> [[Shut up]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105586&oldid=105585 * Masalt * (+657) 
18:34:17 <esolangs> [[Shut up]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105587&oldid=105586 * Masalt * (-4) 
19:53:47 <zzo38> If I want to make up a new escape code in a terminal emulator to switch the code page to a specified code page number, what code should be used?
19:55:51 <zzo38> Is there an escape code to switch into or out of doorway mode? If not, what code should be used?
20:00:01 <zzo38> There is a switch for doorway mode, which is CSI=255h
20:02:13 <zzo38> (In doorway mode, a null prefix can be used to treat the next character as a graphic character even if it would ordinarily be a control character, which is necessary for some code pages.)
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21:43:54 <esolangs> [[EsoFur]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105588&oldid=105398 * TaserTheFox * (-8) 
21:49:07 <esolangs> [[Quudo]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105589&oldid=105582 * SwitchU42 * (+63) 
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23:48:18 <esolangs> [[Flame]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105590&oldid=80601 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+96) Stub, categories, unpipe

2022-12-21:

00:29:12 <esolangs> [[BitQueue]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105591&oldid=105142 * DivergentClouds * (+25) added file extension
00:33:19 <esolangs> [[BitQueue]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105592&oldid=105591 * DivergentClouds * (+64) added * instruction
00:39:23 <esolangs> [[Shut up]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105593&oldid=105587 * Masalt * (+46) /* One time Cat program */
00:40:25 <esolangs> [[Shut up]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105594&oldid=105593 * Masalt * (+12) 
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07:18:55 <int-e> Oh well, another day where I overcomplicated my quick&dirty AoC solution for part 2...
07:19:09 <int-e> ...also, didn't we have pretty much this exact problem in a porevious one?
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08:48:30 <int-e> (day 24 last year... well, not quite, but close)
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10:19:25 <fizzie> I was kind of expecting the graph to be a DAG, not a tree.
10:19:46 <fizzie> Okay, a tree *is* a DAG, but you know what I mean.
10:22:46 <int-e> fizzie: same!
10:23:46 <int-e> Oh well, no harm done except I dropped about 1000 ranks between part 1 and part 2.
10:24:26 <int-e> And the only real problem with that is that I care, at least a little bit :-P
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10:25:39 <fizzie> The good part about waking up ~4-5 hours after the puzzle gets published is, can't really care about that.
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12:00:06 <esolangs> [[Fash]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105595 * TJC games * (+3149) Fash
12:01:45 <esolangs> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105596&oldid=105510 * TJC games * (+11) 
12:02:27 <esolangs> [[Fash]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105597&oldid=105595 * TJC games * (-5) 
12:02:47 <esolangs> [[Fash]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105598&oldid=105597 * TJC games * (+1) /* Examples */
12:03:18 <esolangs> [[Fash]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105599&oldid=105598 * TJC games * (+43) /* .fashp */
12:07:17 <esolangs> [[Fash]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105600&oldid=105599 * TJC games * (+98) true though
12:11:54 <esolangs> [[Fash]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105601&oldid=105600 * TJC games * (+30) 
12:12:27 <esolangs> [[Fash]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105602&oldid=105601 * TJC games * (+1) 
12:13:05 <esolangs> [[Fash]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105603&oldid=105602 * TJC games * (+48) 
12:13:55 <esolangs> [[Fash]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105604&oldid=105603 * TJC games * (+4) 
12:14:02 <esolangs> [[Fash]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105605&oldid=105604 * TJC games * (+1) 
12:16:37 <esolangs> [[User:TJC games]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105606&oldid=102371 * TJC games * (+15) 
12:19:10 <esolangs> [[Fash]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105607&oldid=105605 * TJC games * (+74) Q
12:19:51 <esolangs> [[Fash]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105608&oldid=105607 * TJC games * (-74) Undo revision 105607 by [[Special:Contributions/TJC games|TJC games]] ([[User talk:TJC games|talk]])
12:21:21 <esolangs> [[Fash]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105609&oldid=105608 * TJC games * (+70) /* Basic subroutines */
12:22:42 <esolangs> [[Talk:Fash]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105610 * TJC games * (+219) /* What is computational class? */ new section
12:35:05 <esolangs> [[Fash]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105611&oldid=105609 * TJC games * (+108) /* Subroutines */
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12:44:35 <wib_jonas> `xkcdwhatif 162
12:44:37 <HackEso> xkcdwhatif? No such file or directory
12:44:42 <wib_jonas> `xkcdwhatiflist 162
12:44:44 <HackEso> xkcdwhatiflist 162: oerjan b_jonas Taneb
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13:54:45 <esolangs> [[Fash]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105612&oldid=105611 * TJC games * (-12) 
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19:17:15 <esolangs> [[Tinytalk]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105613&oldid=104245 * Rdococ * (+138) Include mutable variable semantics
19:23:51 <esolangs> [[Tinytalk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105614&oldid=105613 * Rdococ * (-39) /* Semantics */
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2022-12-22:

00:48:44 <fizzie> int-e: Added TikZ support to the "images-to-embed-in-Markdown" utility I've got in the AoC repo so that I can spend far too much time fiddling with illustrations like https://0x0.st/o52y.png
00:50:21 <FireFly> nice
00:50:25 <fizzie> Also plotted the day 20 benchmark results in a neat plot [ https://0x0.st/o52t.png ] and made a diagram to illustrate the day 15 coordinate transformation [ https://0x0.st/o52v.png ].
00:50:36 <fizzie> Think I might have LaTeX withdrawal or something.
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01:19:41 <esolangs> [[Fetch]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105615 * Masalt * (+166) Created page with "{{stub}} {{WIP}} Fetch is a programming language made by [[User:masalt]] ==[[Popular problem|Examples]]== ===[[Hello, World!]]===  Throw Hello, World!  Fetch 13  Drop"
01:21:18 <esolangs> [[User:Masalt]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105616&oldid=105536 * Masalt * (+49) 
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02:57:43 <esolangs> [[Fetch]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105617&oldid=105615 * Masalt * (-166) Blanked the page
02:58:33 <esolangs> [[Fetch]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105618&oldid=105617 * Masalt * (+166) Undo revision 105617 by [[Special:Contributions/Masalt|Masalt]] ([[User talk:Masalt|talk]])
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06:29:12 <shachaf> int-e: Oh, N-Step Steve part 2 is coming out on Friday.
06:29:30 <int-e> hmm
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06:33:26 <int-e> Kind of ironic because n-step Steve was part 2 of 5-step Steve
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09:30:59 <int-e> fizzie: Btw, belated realization: For yesterday's part 1, I should've just copied the input to a Haskell file, replaced : by = and / by `div` and finally added `main = print root`
09:35:19 <int-e> And then https://hackage.haskell.org/package/simple-reflect-0.3.3 for part 2.
09:35:55 <int-e> (that's enough to produce an expression that can be fed into a CAS)
09:36:20 <int-e> that would've been really fast, had I thought of it :)
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09:53:07 <esolangs> [[Fash]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105619&oldid=105612 * TJC games * (+40) OK I'll add pointers
09:54:03 <esolangs> [[Fash]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105620&oldid=105619 * TJC games * (+29) /* .fashp */
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10:35:12 <int-e> Oh cool, github has a syntax highlighter for objdump outputs.
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10:44:00 <int-e> Also... poor programmer here tried to write branch-less code, should've used `if` instead. https://github.com/Neptune-Crypto/twenty-first/pull/70#issuecomment-1362677843
10:44:26 <int-e> (ultimately that may be a shortcoming in LLVM)
10:46:46 <int-e> (The code they wrote was  `let (r, c) = xh.overflowing_sub(b); r.wrapping_sub(0u32.wrapping_sub(c as u32) as u64)`; I rewrite the second instructions as `if c { r.wrapping_sub(0xFFFFFFFF) } else { r }`
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11:30:26 <wib_jonas> int-e: er, so that's not in a context where the code should be constant time to avoid side channel attacks, and that's why the programmer used branchless code?
11:30:58 <int-e> wib_jonas: I dunno, I think at this point they just want it to be fast.
11:31:41 <int-e> But that's a guess, it's just as well possible that you're right.
11:32:19 <wib_jonas> it's some cryptography stuff, and most of cryptography wants to be constant time unless it's a cryptanalytic attack
11:34:45 <int-e> They're sword_smith on this server and they're in #crypto; you could ask ;-)
11:34:50 <wib_jonas> as far as I understand, in theory you basically can't make anything constant time on normal consumer processors and consumer operating systems, but in practice all the symmetric crypto is trivial to make constant-time as long as you just use constant-time comparisons when you compare digests, while public key cryptography is hard to make constant
11:34:50 <wib_jonas> time and designing primitives that can reasonably be implemented constant time is a significant part of the dark art of cryptography
11:38:01 <int-e> Actually... AIUI the context is zero-knowledge proofs; I don't think constant time is a requirement for that.
11:40:01 <wib_jonas> what? it's not zero-knowledge if you're leaking timing information
11:40:54 <int-e> oh, non-interactive zero-knowledge proofs, I should say
11:41:19 <int-e> The fact that those exist is absolutely mindboggling to me.
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12:43:18 <FireFly> I need to read up on how they work, but I recently learned about zero-knowledge VMs and RISC zero, which definitely boggles the mind
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14:05:46 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Iamduckm *  New user account
15:12:06 <esolangs> [[Jackass]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105621&oldid=43927 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+148) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the Jackass programming language on GitHub.
15:18:13 <esolangs> [[Jackass]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105622&oldid=105621 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+466) Added an examples section with three initial members, composed of a numeric cat program, a Hello, World! printer, and a truth-machine.
15:18:53 <esolangs> [[Jackass]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105623&oldid=105622 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+25) Added the category tag Stack-based.
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15:38:24 <esolangs> [[Talk:Right bracket]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105624 * TJC games * (+85) /* Erors */ new section
15:44:59 <esolangs> [[Jackass]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105625&oldid=105623 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+678) Remodeled the operation listing as a table.
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17:04:58 <esolangs> [[Fetch]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105626&oldid=105618 * Masalt * (+140) 
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17:20:44 <esolangs> [[Fetch]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105627&oldid=105626 * Masalt * (+51) /* Examples */
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17:44:48 <esolangs> [[Half-Broken Car in Heavy Web Traffic]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105628&oldid=105161 * BoundedBeans * (-38) Changed specification to require "@evaljs" to run javascript function calls.
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19:24:30 <esolangs> [[Gbbprosk!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105629&oldid=103322 * Someone668 * (+14) 
19:41:49 <esolangs> [[Pythile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105630&oldid=104677 * Someone668 * (+72) 
19:42:16 <esolangs> [[Brainfault]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105631&oldid=105363 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+0) Amended an orthographic mistake in the encode.fault example by changing the word ourput to output.
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21:04:35 <esolangs> [[Har(d)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105632 * LEOMOK * (+1961) Created page with "Har(d) is an esolang created by [[User:LEOMOK]]. It is inspired by the constructed language [https://crazyninjageeks.wordpress.com/2015/11/28/introduction-to-kayfdanfsantaptvlirtsangbesputvombngagtvlimpkayfsnafkayfgaf-boptvegpdaffshofbompvlimpgafvlimpgaf/ Kay(f)bop(t)]. I
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2022-12-23:

00:25:05 <fizzie> Huh, today's actually leading the one-star-only ratio chart.
00:25:37 <fizzie> (And twistiness, for this year.)
00:25:50 <fizzie> Oh, not quite, day 18 has it beat on that score.
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01:59:05 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * HelloWorldGangHere *  New user account
02:20:27 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105633&oldid=105462 * HelloWorldGangHere * (+255) 02:20, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
02:21:09 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105634&oldid=105633 * HelloWorldGangHere * (+30) 
02:21:22 <esolangs> [[User:HelloWorldGangHere]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105635 * HelloWorldGangHere * (+9003) Created page with "'''Hello World Gang''' ''We are proud of ourselves and will be even prouder when we figure out how to print Hello World in Malbolge without searching on Google''   {| |+ Caption text |- | Example || Example || Example || Example || Example || 
02:23:21 <esolangs> [[User talk:HelloWorldGangHere]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105636 * HelloWorldGangHere * (+8854) Created page with "Talk to us here. {| |+ Caption text |- | Example || Example || Example || Example || Example || Example || Example || Example || Example || Example || Example || Example || Example || Example || Example || Example || Example || Example ||
02:24:56 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105637&oldid=105634 * HelloWorldGangHere * (+4) 
02:27:47 <esolangs> [[Talk:(1) Grace sent you a message]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105638&oldid=73226 * HelloWorldGangHere * (+86) 
02:28:54 <esolangs> [[Talk:(1) Grace sent you a message]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105639&oldid=105638 * HelloWorldGangHere * (+30) 
02:31:49 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hakerh400]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105640 * HelloWorldGangHere * (+244) Created page with "Hello. I'm Hakerh400. Wanna talk to me? This is the right page. (Page created by [[User:HelloWorldGangHere|Hello World Gang]]([[User Talk:HelloWorldGangHere|talk]]). Also, we at Hello World Gang think you're very cool, alright? You're welcome.)"
02:33:23 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105641&oldid=104976 * HelloWorldGangHere * (+103) 
02:33:50 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105642&oldid=105641 * HelloWorldGangHere * (+32) 
02:34:01 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105643&oldid=105642 * HelloWorldGangHere * (-1) 
02:35:21 <fizzie> Um.
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10:04:39 <esolangs> [[User:Hakerh400]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105644&oldid=105643 * Hakerh400 * (-134) Undo revision by User:HelloWorldGangHere
10:05:46 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hakerh400]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105645&oldid=105640 * Hakerh400 * (-244) Undo revision by User:HelloWorldGangHere. Please sign your comments.
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12:09:30 <esolangs> [[Ting Vit]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105646 * Xyzzy * (+164) Created page with "{{Stub}}{{WIP}} '''Ting Vit''' is a programming language where programs look like Vietnamese text.  To code in Ting Vit, you need a Vietnamese keyboard."
12:11:53 <esolangs> [[IXY]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105647 * Xyzzy * (+24) Redirected page to [[]]
12:16:06 <esolangs> [[Ting Vit]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105648&oldid=105646 * Xyzzy * (+447) 
12:18:51 <esolangs> [[Ting Vit]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105649&oldid=105648 * B jonas * (+51) cat
12:29:00 <esolangs> [[ACCUMULATOR]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105650 * UndoneStudios * (+1090) ACCUMULATOR page
12:29:10 <esolangs> [[ACCUMULATOR]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105651&oldid=105650 * UndoneStudios * (-19) /* ACCUMULATOR */
12:36:16 <esolangs> [[ACCUMULATOR]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105652&oldid=105651 * UndoneStudios * (+102) /* The official JavaScript interpreter */
12:36:55 <esolangs> [[ACCUMULATOR]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105653&oldid=105652 * UndoneStudios * (-23) /* The official JavaScript interpreter */
12:37:35 <esolangs> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105654&oldid=105596 * UndoneStudios * (+18) added ACCUMULATOR
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17:23:35 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Mikrzak44 *  New user account
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17:27:57 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105655&oldid=105637 * Mikrzak44 * (+141) /* Introductions */
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17:47:15 <esolangs> [[MindFuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105656 * Fly * (+1584) Created page with "MindFuck is a BrainFuck inspired language.  The difference between the two is that MindFuck doesnt have an interpreter and everything is manual, the initialization of the program and the initialization of the cells.  So basically MindFuck is if BrainFuck was almost useless
17:47:43 <esolangs> [[MindFuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105657&oldid=105656 * Fly * (-3) 
17:51:29 <esolangs> [[MindFuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105658&oldid=105657 * Fly * (-6) 
17:51:43 <esolangs> [[MindFuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105659&oldid=105658 * Fly * (+1) /* Commands */
17:52:53 <esolangs> [[MindFuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105660&oldid=105659 * Fly * (+34) /* Commands */
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19:24:02 <zzo38> What is your idea that a new keyword ability in Magic: the Gathering should be called if its effect is: As this object enters the battlefield, or gains this ability due to merging or being faced up, it gains the ability specified by this keyword ability's parameter and loses this keyword ability, as a layer 6 effect.
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2022-12-24:

00:08:01 <esolangs> [[ACCUMULATOR]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105661&oldid=105653 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+131) Categories
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01:33:31 <fizzie> Heh, I got a day 21 part 2 Burlesque answer that takes two minutes to evaluate the number. :)
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04:40:12 <int-e> Hmmm interpretation overhead, list-based lookups, repeated evaluation of subtrees... I guess there's ways to make it this slow ;)
04:42:02 <int-e> How hard is it to prove that day 23 part 2 always terminates, I wonder.
04:47:43 <int-e> (well, assuming it does... which seems more likely than the alternative, but without proof, who knows :) )
04:58:19 <shachaf> int-e: Uh oh, some of these N-Step Steve levels are pretty tricky.
05:40:04 <int-e> the original?
05:54:03 <int-e> fungot: is it V or v?
05:54:03 <fungot> int-e: or is it, a bit easier to read
05:54:28 * int-e struggled for probably 10 minutes to figure that out. Sigh.
05:54:54 <int-e> OTOH I got away with a wrong solution for part 2.
05:59:07 <shachaf> I mean part 2.
06:01:03 <int-e> The first n-step Steve wasn't exactly easy either, so that's not a surprise.
06:02:14 <shachaf> Right.
06:02:34 <int-e> Oh wait, no, my part 2 solution was actually correct, I just didn't understand why :-P
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06:07:54 <int-e> Let's see if I can get that thing to work.
06:09:12 <int-e> ("it runs in the browser" - but not in my default profile even with a JS exception)
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06:14:27 <int-e> the wormholes are a cute QoL improvement
06:15:55 <shachaf> Definitely.
06:16:08 <shachaf> Though I'm not sure there'd be a downside of just letting you teleport to any of them directly?
06:16:37 <shachaf> I'm pretty early, though, only 4 kittens and 1 star.
06:18:09 <shachaf> Oh man, it wasn't until you said that that I realized the mysterious spirals turn into wormholes. That's what they're for.
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08:28:06 <int-e> "collect 22 more stars"
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09:16:00 <esolangs> [[Fash]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105662&oldid=105620 * TJC games * (+0) spelling mistake
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10:26:03 <b_jonas> `f2c 30
10:26:05 <HackEso> f2c? No such file or directory
10:26:14 <b_jonas> `ftoc 30
10:26:15 <HackEso> 30.00°F = -1.11°C
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10:29:10 <b_jonas> zzo38: it's usually not worth to keyword an ability unless it's one you can have on several cards, either several in one set/block, or several spread throughout blocks by making it evergreen like protection or menace, and that one sounds a niche ability that you won't use on many cards, if at all
10:34:11 <b_jonas> unless you want to refer to it from another ability, such as on another card
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12:13:20 <int-e> shachaf: Well, I've rescued enough crew to launch the ship. Stars though... 5 so far. Time for a break.
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12:52:30 <fizzie> int-e: Yeah, I keep the tree nodes in a list, so every step involves an O(n) scan to find an element in it. And nothing is memoized, so the "find the human" code (which does a full traversal of the current subtree) keeps getting repeated.
12:52:38 <fizzie> So it's at least an O(n^2) operation for each level as it descends towards the human. Although I guess since the size halves each time, that's... still just O(n^2)? Given that n^2 + (n/2)^2 + (n/4)^2 + ... = n^2 * (1 + 1/4 + 1/16 + ...) <= n^2 * 2.
13:08:14 <int-e> I imagine the lookup time doesn't go down. But that doesn't change the result.
13:14:01 <fizzie> Right, I guess that just changes the constant from 4/3 to 2.
13:16:08 <fizzie> For part 1 I prepend "." and then `pe` (parse+eval) to do the math, because conveniently Burlesque builtins for + - * / are .+ .- .* ./ respectively.
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18:47:30 <zzo38> b_jonas: You might want to refer to other abilities on other cards, but even without that, if you have many copy effects and text changing effects (especially on the card that has this keyword ability, if something copies it or it copies something else, but also even if not), that is another thing, if making ones that use it
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20:19:24 <esolangs> [[BitQueue]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105663&oldid=105592 * DivergentClouds * (+28) added turing tarpits category
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23:19:19 <b_jonas> `? swift
23:19:22 <HackEso> swift? ¯\(°​_o)/¯

2022-12-25:

01:07:47 <esolangs> [[!!Fuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105664&oldid=94877 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+253) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the !!Fuck programming language on GitHub and added the category tag Implemented.
01:09:32 <esolangs> [[!!Fuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105665&oldid=105664 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+171) Added an infinite cat program as a further example.
01:12:20 <esolangs> [[!!Fuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105666&oldid=105665 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+214) Improved the instruction table's formatting.
01:34:34 <shachaf> int-e: Hmm, I'm back to it and currently pretty puzzled about room 7,13.
01:34:41 <shachaf> This one doesn't even have a star.
01:56:36 <esolangs> [[Wepmlrio]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105667&oldid=42856 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+134) Categories
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03:16:56 <fizzie> Aw. The simple Burlesque solution for day 20 part 1 works for the sample, but not for the full input. :/
03:17:28 <fizzie> Guess the numbers aren't unique in the actual input.
03:19:30 <fizzie> Also made a version that implements a doubly linked list using a {{value prev-idx next-idx} ...} block, which worked for the sample too, but didn't halt in 10 minutes for the actual input. It had a whole lot of accessing lists by index.
03:20:44 <fizzie> Maybe the simple solution will work if I just append an index to each value to make them unique.
03:26:39 <fizzie> Yep. Pleasantly simple for once in these later days: psziJ+]{S1jS0jFiS2g0jRAsag2g1[~.+j.%g1jia}r[sas1S0{[~z?}fi{1000.+g1.%Jg0j!![~Pp}3E!p\CL++
04:06:45 <shachaf> int-e: Ugh, that one was obvious as soon as I thought about it enough.
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04:36:27 <int-e> Which one... oh I see, the ohqql flfgrz one.
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05:25:03 <int-e> > 173/879
05:25:05 <lambdabot>  0.19681456200227532
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07:46:15 <int-e> Oh, that was the last kitten (18 rescues). Only 6 stars though.
07:47:59 <int-e> I also found a cheesy sign that starts with "Nice try".
08:04:31 <int-e> > 1100/3375
08:04:32 <lambdabot>  0.32592592592592595
08:04:52 <int-e> (day 25 is shaping up to be as twisty as usual)
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11:02:26 <b_jonas> so you know how some buildings have three rooms connected in a loop by three doors so the floorplan is not simply connected, right? I live in a smaller apartment that doesn't have such a feature. but I just realized, the state space of where I can walk in the apartment is not simply connected anyway, because I can just do a full rotation in place, and there's no way to contract that to identity no 
11:02:32 <b_jonas> matter how athletic I am. mathematics forbids it.
11:02:59 <b_jonas> (I am not athletic)
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12:00:03 <b_jonas> how do you spell the adjective form of Poisson for naming mathematical concepts, like Hamiltonian and Lagrangian? is it "Poissonian"?
12:53:28 <esolangs> [[ACCUMULATOR]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105668&oldid=105661 * UndoneStudios * (+35) 
12:56:46 <esolangs> [[ACCUMULATOR]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105669&oldid=105668 * UndoneStudios * (+373) /* Interpreters */
12:57:23 <fizzie> int-e: Probably the first time I've done a Burlesque solution (@-/r~@=.r~ln{XX)**48?-5ug}ms5dg{0+]J{3>=}m[RTj{2.+5.%2.-}m[?+}{>]3>=}w!{z?}jdw48?+)L[@/-r~@.=r~\[) *first*.
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13:35:13 <fizzie> int-e: As for twistiness, the numbers suggest that there's again a lot of people who either don't realize or care that there's that link to click to get the last star.
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16:05:51 <int-e> > map ord "=-0"
16:05:52 <lambdabot>  [61,45,48]
16:12:13 <int-e> fizzie: Hmm do you have a nicer way for day 22 than writing down a separate case for the 14 ways that one can fall off an edge, hard-coded to the given input?
16:25:31 <fizzie> Mm, I guess you could say this isn't hardcoded to the input, but it's got more cases than that: https://0x0.st/o5EC.txt
16:25:40 <fizzie> I use that map to (a) when assembling the cube from faces, map the face and its orientation to a "canonical" cube, and (b) when walking, if the bounds are exceeded, computing the new face, direction, and position from (x', y') = (mxx*x + mxy*y + mxs*(S-1), myx*x + myy*y + mys*(S-1)).
16:26:30 <int-e> I did this: http://paste.debian.net/1265255/
16:26:54 <int-e> Keeping things 2D.
16:27:20 <fizzie> Well, so do I (keep things 2D, I mean).
16:27:24 <fizzie> More or less, anyway.
16:27:49 <fizzie> In theory what I've got should work for any net of a cube, though I've only tested it on the sample and my puzzle input.
16:28:51 <int-e> Oh I guess you can walk on the given input to map that to your default cube.
16:31:05 <fizzie> Yeah, here's a comment from the source: https://0x0.st/o56s.txt
16:32:12 <int-e> (map that = map those walks)
16:32:24 <fizzie> I start from an arbitrary face that I call face 0, orientation 0 (the one that has the starting position), and do a recursive thing that finds all the neighbors (in the input) and uses that map to put them to the right place in the canonical cube, and record how the input data is rotated in relation to that.
16:33:22 <fizzie> Out of curiosity, was your puzzle input net the same as mine? Mine was ⡼⠁
16:33:22 <int-e> Right. Yeah, and that'll work for all nets.
16:33:34 <int-e> yep, same one
16:34:16 <int-e> (I drew a diagram on a sheet of paper for this, it's still around.)
16:34:30 <fizzie> Right. Since the sample and the input weren't the same, I thought it might vary. (I guess it could still be just a coincidence we've got the same one.)
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16:37:54 <int-e> There are at least 48 possible nets though... so it's already a pretty big coincidence.
16:38:29 <int-e> (this includes symmetric versions)
16:42:29 <int-e> 60 might be the actual count, but it's easy to miss a case.
16:43:02 <fizzie> I think we got less "esolangy" puzzles this year than is usual. I mean, the Intcode year was kind of exceptional, but there's usually still at least a couple of ones around an assembly-ish language of some sort.
16:56:29 <int-e> yeah all we got was day 10
17:02:01 <int-e> Eh it was fine. And I got exactly 333 global leaderboard points which is kind of neat.
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17:42:11 <fizzie> I had already forgotten about day 10.
17:43:41 <fizzie> I got exactly 0 points, which is a very round number.
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17:50:01 <int-e> Yeah those points are largely meaningless. I mean... 1) you have to start when the problem unlocks 2) you basically can't hit any roadblocks (parsing the problem, approach to solving, possinle misinterpretations, bugs)... and even then you need to be kind of fast. For me, it gets a bit easier towards the end as people drop out and problems become harder.
17:50:30 <int-e> But getting into the top 100 is definitely not something I plan for :P
17:52:20 <int-e> Surprisingly I got points today... the problem felt way too standard for that. But maybe it isn't, and my previous exposure to balanmced base 3 is kind of special.
17:54:23 <int-e> (I also lost a rank between part 1 and part 2 today... 6 seconds was too slow!)
17:55:32 <fizzie> I definitely thought "oh, like balanced ternary but for base 5" as soon as I saw today's puzzle, but maybe I'm in the minority too.
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18:47:41 <esolangs> [[Talk:PDAsephone]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105670&oldid=100100 * BoundedBeans * (+209) 
19:09:36 <b_jonas> fungot, if a dollop is the same as a scoop, does that imply that a doll is the same as a sco?
19:09:36 <fungot> b_jonas: even then, somehow i forgot those, i guess. ( but i don't know to what extend this might be interesting
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20:23:06 <fizzie> Meh. When a Burlesque program takes long, it's so hard to know if it's just being slow, or if it has in fact ended up in an infinite loop of some kind.
20:23:29 <fizzie> Would be convenient if it had some sort of interactive output facility for debugging.
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20:49:09 <esolangs> [[MindFuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105671&oldid=105660 * Fly * (-107) 
20:58:37 <fizzie> "real 19m21.351s" guess it was just slow. (Part 1 of day 24...)
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22:11:58 <esolangs> [[OZZo]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105672 * Fly * (+787) Created page with "Created by Fly aka Cristian Cestola, oZZo (that stands for "one zero zero one" or "1001") is an esoteric programming language that uses instructions made of binary numbers.  ==Instructions==  {| class="wikitable" !Command !Description  |- |1111  |sets memory to true |- |0000  |
22:12:55 <esolangs> [[OZZo]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105673&oldid=105672 * Fly * (+21) /* Instructions */
22:21:29 <esolangs> [[User:Fly]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105674 * Fly * (+49) Created page with "All my esolangs:  * [[MindFuck]]  * [[Ozzo|oZZo]]"
22:22:16 <esolangs> [[User:Fly]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105675&oldid=105674 * Fly * (+0) 
22:23:34 <esolangs> [[OZZo]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105676&oldid=105673 * Fly * (+4) /* Instructions */
22:25:34 <esolangs> [[OZZo]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105677&oldid=105676 * Fly * (+63) /* Hello World */
22:34:43 <esolangs> [[Solbofuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105678&oldid=51968 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+269) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the Solbofuck programming language on GitHub and added the category tag Implemented.
22:37:07 <esolangs> [[Solbofuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105679&oldid=105678 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+138) Added further categories to the page.
22:39:10 <esolangs> [[Solbofuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105680&oldid=105679 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+214) Added an infinite cat program as a further example.
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2022-12-26:

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00:44:03 <esolangs> [[Solbofuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105681&oldid=105680 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+237) Added a section header to the instruction table and improved the table's formatting.
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04:20:35 <fizzie> Man, this day 15 part 2 quadtree thing must be the most commented and structured Burlesque program I've written: https://0x0.st/o5l_.txt
04:20:57 <fizzie> Also does part 2 for the actual puzzle input in 0.1s, which is refreshing for a Burlesque solution.
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07:49:34 <int-e> Oooh, readable string constants
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11:21:58 <esolangs> [[6chars]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105682 * Username1234 * (+901) Created page with "== Introduction ==  '''6chars''' is an esolang with exactly 6 characters. (Count by yourself! '6', 'c', 'h', 'a', 'r', 's'.)  == Commands ==  6 Unicode characters (0x0000 ~ 0xFFFF) has 24 hexadecimal bits, which are 96 binary bits altogether.   This language is based
11:22:36 <esolangs> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105683&oldid=105654 * Username1234 * (+13) /* Non-alphabetic */
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11:51:29 <esolangs> [[Talk:Cvlemar]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105684&oldid=8199 * Rdococ * (+423) /* Circuit/dataflow paradigm? */ new section
11:52:38 <esolangs> [[Image]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105685&oldid=104006 * Rdococ * (+33) /* Computational Class */
11:54:02 <esolangs> [[Image]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105686&oldid=105685 * Rdococ * (+21) /* Overview */ correct timeline error
11:54:49 <esolangs> [[C()]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105687&oldid=98943 * Rdococ * (-62) 
12:02:22 <esolangs> [[Talk:Loose Circular Brainfuck (LCBF)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105688 * Rdococ * (+184) Created page with "== Not Turing-complete == There's a bounded memory size and no way to grow it, pretty sure it's not TC. ~~~~"
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13:33:34 <b_jonas> `ioccclist 2022-11-19, 2022-11-29, 2022-12-18, but no contest announced yet, just some infrastructure and social media nonsense
13:33:36 <HackEso> ioccclist 2022-11-19, 2022-11-29, 2022-12-18, but no contest announced yet, just some infrastructure and social media nonsense: b_jonas rain2 rain1 Taneb
14:32:28 <int-e> cute: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2oKediz0lc
14:33:16 <int-e> Did anyone else notice youtube being more aggressive with autoplay or is that just me? (I used to have to disable that once per session, now it's every video)
14:41:09 <b_jonas> hmm, this is a video that says its creator is making an esoteric language called Gottlob https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmYO8oD9Hdw 
14:42:11 <b_jonas> int-e: I don't have to disable it again, but I think it has a bug where it sometimes autoplays one video after a playlist, conditions unclear
14:42:28 <b_jonas> but maybe I just don't pay attention and disable autoplay
14:42:47 <b_jonas> also I noticed that the button to subscribe channel has changed color from red background to black background
14:47:37 <b_jonas> apparently https://www.attoparsec.com/artifacts/gottlob/index.html has more info
14:54:06 <shachaf> int-e: I got back to the thing today.
14:54:20 <shachaf> I have 18 kittens, 3 stars, and 1 cryptid.
14:54:25 <shachaf> Time to find more stars, I guess.
14:54:45 <int-e> there are cryptids?
14:55:48 <shachaf> Apparently!
14:56:11 <int-e> 18+7+0 then
14:56:55 <int-e> Did part 1 have the viewfinder thingy too? I forgot.
14:57:04 <shachaf> I don't think so.
14:57:47 <shachaf> The only cryptid I found was onon sebz onon vf lbh. I don't know whether there are others.
14:58:16 <shachaf> Some of these stars seem clearly impossible.
14:58:26 <int-e> ah, the credits suggest that there are more
14:59:08 <shachaf> I gather there's some way you can open a wormhole that lets you get two cats.
14:59:24 <shachaf> Or maybe there's another way to get two cats, but when you manage to do it it opens the wormhole to save you time later.
14:59:51 <int-e> gurer'f n srngher jurer lbh pna jnyx vagb n jnyy be n qrnqyl fcnpr sebz n arvtuobevat ebbz, juvpu V guvax rkcynvaf n ybg bs gur fgnef
15:00:32 <shachaf> Ah, I noticed that.
15:01:26 <int-e> but anyway, it does look hard
15:01:57 <shachaf> I also found the nice try sign, maybe that's related to the thing you just said.
15:02:05 <shachaf> Because it seems tricky any other way.
15:03:20 <b_jonas> uh, I'm having trouble finding an esolang thing. what was that old programming language, probably not completely realized, where source code is written as a tree drawn in two-dimensions where some things are composed next to each other and some things under each other, and that is *not* by Ken Iverson?
15:03:23 <int-e> of the kittens, this part gave me the most trouble: gurer'f n srngher jurer lbh pna jnyx vagb n jnyy be n qrnqyl fcnpr sebz n arvtuobevat ebbz, juvpu V guvax rkcynvaf n ybg bs gur fgnef
15:03:27 <int-e> argh
15:03:32 <int-e> https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/steve.png
15:03:51 <int-e> (the bottom left part)
15:04:01 <b_jonas> Plankalkül apparently. why don't we have an article about that on the wiki?
15:05:56 <shachaf> Yes, I was stuck at that one for a while.
15:06:37 <shachaf> I kept thinking gur guvat unq gb tb yrsg.
15:09:19 <int-e> yeah, and it almost works too
15:09:58 <shachaf> Of course.
15:11:03 <esolangs> [[Gottlob]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105689 * B jonas * (+779) Created page with "'''Gottlob''' is an imperative programming language with unusual syntax created by Matthew Dockrey in 2019.  It has unusual syntax, based on Gottlob Frege's logic notation from his 1879 book Begriffsschrift: A formula language, modeled on that of arithmetic, of pure thou
15:11:44 <FireFly> b_jonas: oh interesting, I thought Plankalkül was relatively straightforward but I guess not really
15:12:04 <esolangs> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105690&oldid=105683 * B jonas * (+14) Gottlob
15:14:18 <b_jonas> FireFly: I have no idea whether it's straightforward or not. the similarity with APL is striking: they're both originally intended as mathematical notation for easier formal writing, without having to run them on computers, and had planar source code syntax, but Plankalkül is *much* older
15:15:18 <b_jonas> APL lost its planar syntax when it got adapated to a programming language for computers, though it gained backspaced combined characters instead so that it can be input and output on a Selectric with custom type element 
15:16:43 <FireFly> overstriking is such an elegant thing that's just lost to time now, heh
15:19:44 <shachaf> int-e: I think the star in your screenshot is the one that leads to the cryptid I found.
15:19:50 <b_jonas> FireFly: I think it lost because it didn't work well with punch cards, Intercal notwithstanding. being able to edit your program as a stack of cards, as opposed to having to glue tape ticker tape together, is very useful
15:20:36 <b_jonas> but of course digraphs, as in sequences of two characters with a unique meaning, are alive and well in modern languages
15:21:04 <b_jonas> because you want more things in a language than keys on a keyboard or type elements in a printer
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15:21:39 <b_jonas> (well, two times type elements in a printer, since each one has a base character and a shifted character)
15:25:16 <FireFly> true, I guess boolean operators would be the prime example of digraphs surviving in modern programming languages
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15:25:50 <FireFly> and it kind of remains in general in text in the form of combining characters and such
15:30:15 <b_jonas> of course backspaced combinations are still more practical than the traditional form of mathematical manuscripts, where you type out the letters and digits and other symbols that you have on the typewriter, then use a pen to write the symbols that you don't have on the keyboard and underlines and double underlines to mark bold and italic letters
15:32:43 <b_jonas> wait.. the "Plan" in the name of Plankalkül isn't because the source code is planar?
15:32:46 <b_jonas> huh
15:32:58 <b_jonas> I guess that would have made no sense historically
15:34:27 <b_jonas> btw, the wiki main page says "complete list of languages". should we remove "complete" because it's a blatant lie and we shouldn't have such a lie on the main page?
15:34:37 <shachaf> Also, https://slbkbs.org/tmp/su/2022-12-26-173240_1316x1313.png seems so close, but I don't think I can get them both out from this setup?
15:40:15 <int-e> I don't think so either
15:41:24 <shachaf> Hmm, I guess it's impossible even if you had unlimited steps.
15:41:42 <shachaf> I was really hoping this was how you get two cats in the main area.
15:41:56 <shachaf> Maybe it's behind a star or something.
15:43:15 <int-e> I'm currently trying to collect a global map... a bit tedious
15:43:55 <int-e> well, not trying so much as actually doing it
15:44:18 <shachaf> Global map?
15:45:16 <b_jonas> the dictionary kind of map or the collect kind of map?
15:48:03 <int-e> https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/steve-map-small.png (spoiler? I don't know)
15:49:33 <int-e> I also think I'll slowly replace those by actual screenshots rather than the viewfinder ones
15:50:05 <shachaf> Oh, fancy.
15:50:43 <int-e> but it already looks helpful because one can see how the paths match up
15:51:09 <shachaf> It would be nice if there was a built-in map that did that.
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16:36:21 <int-e> shachaf: the game also looks much bigger this way :P
16:37:59 <shachaf> Have you figured out how to get two cats in the main area yet?
16:38:02 <shachaf> I haven't.
16:38:20 <shachaf> I should probably just get more stars and see if that makes it all work.
16:39:24 <int-e> No I have not.
16:42:45 <int-e> It seems obvious where they will come from though... but the corresponding wormholes aren't active.
16:42:53 <int-e> emphasis on "seems", of course.
16:43:31 <int-e> I don't think I'll get any more stars today... it'll take long enough to just revisit every room I've seen before
16:44:24 <shachaf> My vague guess is that those wormholes are a shortcut that opens up after you get them the "proper" way.
16:44:30 <int-e> with the extra step of taking a screenshot
16:44:34 <shachaf> Which is why I was looking west of that room.
16:47:20 <shachaf> I got a couple more, 18+5+1 now.
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17:22:46 <int-e> hmpf, I forgot a trick already
17:26:53 <int-e> Ah, found it again.
17:33:31 <esolangs> [[BitQueue]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105691&oldid=105663 * DivergentClouds * (+74) clarified matching parentheses
17:35:03 <int-e> And I "accidentally" got two more stars.
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18:15:22 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Gon-CJ *  New user account
18:24:09 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105692&oldid=105655 * Gon-CJ * (+202) /* Introductions */
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18:34:35 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Aartaka *  New user account
18:45:06 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105693&oldid=105692 * Aartaka * (+235) /* Introductions */
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18:58:05 <int-e> shachaf: Oh well, the map is all nice and colorful now and I also found Baba. 18+10+1
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19:06:27 <int-e> shachaf: Oh there is at least one open warp gate that leads to a room that I've never seen. (In 9,12, leading to 9,11 according to the viewfinder).
19:46:39 <shachaf> 9,12? I don't think I've been there, I don't see anywhere that would go to it.
19:47:14 <shachaf> Which map is nice and colorful?
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20:24:07 <int-e> shachaf: this one https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/steve-map-small.png (re-uploaded)
20:24:23 <int-e> it's no longer all green.
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20:39:18 <esolangs> [[Gottlob]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105694&oldid=105689 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+9) Stub
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21:25:13 <b_jonas> fungot, how many footages are there in a mileage? and do you call them footages or feetage?
21:25:13 <fungot> b_jonas: then a list of instructions for another task, that you read sicp?!" talk.
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21:27:33 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Alidonis *  New user account
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21:33:47 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105695&oldid=105693 * Alidonis * (+265) Introduced myself !
21:34:49 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105696&oldid=105695 * Alidonis * (-2) Fixed a typo on my introduction, sorry!
21:38:03 <esolangs> [[User:Alidonis]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105697 * Alidonis * (+187) Created page with "Hello ! i'm an (joke) esolang maker that barely usable esolang as fun projects. i'll update this page as i create them so you can see and comment on my work.  Created esolangs : None yet!"
21:49:13 -!- perlbot has joined.
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22:09:06 <esolangs> [[User:Alidonis/sandbox]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105698 * Alidonis * (+2320) Created page with "This is a sandbox page. It is divided into sections with different esolangs i may or may not add in the end.  == Alidonis' Instructions ==  Instruction is a BrainFuck-Inspired language that has to be separated by newlines, altough it has a vast ammount of
22:12:21 <esolangs> [[User:Alidonis]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105699&oldid=105697 * Alidonis * (+54) 
22:12:52 <esolangs> [[User:Alidonis/sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105700&oldid=105698 * Alidonis * (-2212) moving instructions to a subpage
22:13:18 <esolangs> [[User:Alidonis/sandbox/instructions]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105701 * Alidonis * (+2180) Created page with "Instruction is a BrainFuck-Inspired language that has to be separated by newlines, altough it has a vast ammount of variations away from BrainFuck. it has various quality of life features such as not having to increment cells to do anything, 
22:15:07 <esolangs> [[User:Alidonis/sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105702&oldid=105700 * Alidonis * (+73) 
22:16:23 <esolangs> [[User:Alidonis]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105703&oldid=105699 * Alidonis * (+74) 
22:16:34 <esolangs> [[User:Alidonis]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105704&oldid=105703 * Alidonis * (+1) 
22:17:13 <esolangs> [[User:Alidonis]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105705&oldid=105704 * Alidonis * (-53) Final edit for now i hope.
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22:18:07 <Guest71> hi
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22:28:41 <esolangs> [[Tautologos (Archived)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105706&oldid=86428 * Rdococ * (-502) Refurbish and make uncomputable
22:29:47 <esolangs> [[Tautologos (Archived)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105707&oldid=105706 * Rdococ * (+5) /* Solving the halting problem */
22:30:13 <esolangs> [[Tautologos (Archived)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105708&oldid=105707 * Rdococ * (+29) /* Comparing for equality */
22:31:49 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move_redir  * Rdococ *  moved [[Tautologos (Archived)]] to [[Tautologos]] over redirect: Dearchive
22:31:49 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move_redir  * Rdococ *  moved [[Talk:Tautologos (Archived)]] to [[Talk:Tautologos]] over redirect: Dearchive
22:31:49 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete_redir  * Rdococ *  Rdococ deleted redirect [[Tautologos]] by overwriting: Deleted to make way for move from "[[Tautologos (Archived)]]"
22:31:49 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete_redir  * Rdococ *  Rdococ deleted redirect [[Talk:Tautologos]] by overwriting: Deleted to make way for move from "[[Talk:Tautologos (Archived)]]"
22:32:30 <esolangs> [[Tautologos]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105713&oldid=105709 * Rdococ * (+6) Semicolonize
22:33:51 <esolangs> [[Talk:Tautologos]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105714&oldid=105711 * Rdococ * (+129) 
22:34:16 <esolangs> [[User:Rdococ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105715&oldid=104007 * Rdococ * (+68) /* Refurbished languages */
22:35:35 <esolangs> [[!Tautologos]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105716&oldid=103979 * Rdococ * (+72) 
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22:45:17 <esolangs> [[Rule]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105717&oldid=86458 * Rdococ * (+122) /* Sections */ Add instruction pointer as a slidable segment
22:47:32 <esolangs> [[Rule]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105718&oldid=105717 * Rdococ * (+68) /* Overview */
22:49:55 <esolangs> [[Rule]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105719&oldid=105718 * Rdococ * (+128) /* Overview */
22:52:13 <esolangs> [[Rule]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105720&oldid=105719 * Rdococ * (+60) /* Overview */
22:53:06 <esolangs> [[Rule]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105721&oldid=105720 * Rdococ * (+7) /* Overview */
23:19:38 <esolangs> [[Rule]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105722&oldid=105721 * Rdococ * (+1714) Simplify, add IP, esoterify and conjecture about computational class
23:26:33 <esolangs> [[Rule]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105723&oldid=105722 * Rdococ * (+2) /* Computational class */
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23:58:40 <esolangs> [[6chars]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105724&oldid=105682 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+24) Category

2022-12-27:

00:14:32 <zzo38> What word/phrase should be used in Magic: the Gathering for "for a object, that object's controller, or its owner if it has no controller; for a player, that player" (but shorter than that wording)?
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04:45:16 <esolangs> [[Snowflake]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105725&oldid=38305 * CatIsFluffy * (+0) typo
05:08:36 <shachaf> int-e: Hmm, I'm at 18+9+1.
05:09:10 <shachaf> I guess there are at least 24 stars.
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09:28:44 <int-e> shachaf: Oh there's a door for the cryptids too, unlocks at 15 of them...
09:32:17 <shachaf> There are 15 cryptids?
09:32:24 <shachaf> There must be quite a bit of map I haven't explored yet.
09:32:58 <int-e> I've found 2 now.
09:33:17 <int-e> And yes, there is. I also got a pair of kittens roaming the main corridor.
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10:08:05 <esolangs> [[Tautologos]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105726&oldid=105713 * Rdococ * (+34) /* Semantics */
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10:29:27 <esolangs> [[Tinytalk]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105727&oldid=105614 * Rdococ * (+4817) /* Examples */ Improve examples a bit
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10:33:18 <esolangs> [[Tinytalk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105728&oldid=105727 * Rdococ * (+0) 
10:34:42 <esolangs> [[Talk:Powder]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105729&oldid=60761 * Rdococ * (+192) 
10:36:44 <esolangs> [[Talk:Powder]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105730&oldid=105729 * Rdococ * (+155) 
10:37:04 <esolangs> [[Talk:Powder]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105731&oldid=105730 * Rdococ * (+40) /* Fibonacci sequence, factorials etc. */
10:37:33 <esolangs> [[Tinytalk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105732&oldid=105728 * Rdococ * (+0) /* Brainfuck */ LOWERCASIFY
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10:44:26 <shachaf> int-e: Is it the sort of thing where you find one star and it opens up a bunch of new places?
10:44:46 <shachaf> (I haven't looked around since morning.)
10:51:22 <esolangs> [[Tinytalk]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105733&oldid=105732 * Rdococ * (+1257) Conclude
10:52:18 <esolangs> [[Tinytalk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105734&oldid=105733 * Rdococ * (-31) /* Conclusion */
10:52:40 <int-e> shachaf: There's another big area of corridors that you can unlock. They don't lead anywhere though... all exits are blocked, presumably there's other ways to the other side.
10:53:28 <esolangs> [[Human's mind have sex with someone]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105735&oldid=100415 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+8) Rectified the name of the Jump back to the matching left bracket if the cell under the pointer is 0 to Jump back to the matching left bracket if the cell under the pointer is not 0 (please notice the inserted not), as the original name contradicts 
10:54:29 <esolangs> [[Tinytalk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105736&oldid=105734 * Rdococ * (+240) /* Conclusion */
10:54:31 <esolangs> [[Trivial brainfuck substitution]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105737&oldid=96113 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+4) Rectified the name of the Jump back to the matching left bracket if the cell under the pointer is 0 to Jump back to the matching left bracket if the cell under the pointer is not 0 (please notice the inserted not), as the original name contradicts the b
10:54:47 <esolangs> [[Tinytalk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105738&oldid=105736 * Rdococ * (+21) /* Conclusion */
10:55:07 <esolangs> [[Tinytalk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105739&oldid=105738 * Rdococ * (+5) /* Conclusion */
10:55:24 <esolangs> [[Human's mind have sex with someone]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105740&oldid=105735 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+255) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the Human's mind have sex with someone programming language on GitHub and added the category tag Implemented.
10:56:57 <int-e> shachaf: there's deep dependency chains in this game for sure.
10:57:02 <esolangs> [[Tinytalk]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105741&oldid=105739 * Rdococ * (-1492) remove conclusion for now
10:58:31 <shachaf> Just went back to it, I guess I'm at 18+10+1 now but I feel like I'm missing a lot.
11:00:20 <int-e> oh, new mechanic
11:01:10 <esolangs> [[Human's mind have sex with someone]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105742&oldid=105740 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+139) Added a See also section with a reference to the language DetailedFuck.
11:02:39 <esolangs> [[Human's mind have sex with someone]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105743&oldid=105742 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+454) Added an infinite cat program as a further example.
11:02:41 <shachaf> Oh no
11:07:02 <int-e> On the plus side, that was a lot of stars all at once. 18+19+4 now.
11:11:20 <int-e> enough for now
11:12:23 <int-e> shachaf: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/steve.png looks like it may fill the whole screen when it's done. (Just the overview map, no details)
11:13:07 <int-e> Also, there are more than 24 stars.
11:14:17 <shachaf> 18+11+1
11:14:57 <shachaf> It looks like I have one star that you don't.
11:15:21 <int-e> not surprising
11:15:24 <shachaf> Oh, two.
11:15:32 <int-e> still not surprising :)
11:15:44 <shachaf> Which makes me feel even more behind with all the ones you do have, if anything.
11:16:52 <shachaf> For the second star directly below where your cat is in the picture, I guess you just have to come in from another direction, right?
11:17:02 <int-e> yep
11:17:52 <int-e> (from south or west, they way it's laid out)
11:18:38 <shachaf> Right.
11:20:24 <int-e> oh, the 7,16 warp gates do unlock once you get a pair of cats nearby
11:22:51 <shachaf> Oh, right, OK, at least I figured out one new thing.
11:25:27 <shachaf> I should have thought a little more about the area past the first ending door, rather than assume it was just for show.
11:31:42 <shachaf> Not sure what to do with this place, though... So many puzzles.
11:37:54 <int-e> make a map :P
11:38:18 <shachaf> I haven't even reached the map-making stage.
11:38:23 <shachaf> But I have an idea.
11:40:30 <int-e> to me it's been pretty helpful for finding loose ends
11:40:48 <int-e> (of which I still have plenty)
11:42:26 <shachaf> Hmm, even my idea didn't work.
11:43:19 <shachaf> (I'm in room 9,12 trying to figure out how to get anywhere else.)
11:46:00 <int-e> "plenty"... hmm, I see only 3 currently. 9,12 is one of them.
11:46:21 <shachaf> Oh. Well then.
11:46:29 <shachaf> I sort of assumed that was the key to getting anywhere else.
11:46:30 <int-e> And I'm not counting the 24 star door.
11:47:04 <shachaf> (Or rather going right from 10,12 would be.)
11:47:53 <int-e> Oh I'm convinced there's something there.
11:48:21 <shachaf> Oh, your map doesn't even have 10,12, so clearly that's not the key to get where you've gotten.
11:49:10 <int-e> Oh? 10,12 is there.
11:49:19 <int-e> 11,12 isn't.
11:49:22 <shachaf> Sorry, I meant 11,12.
11:51:30 <int-e> Of course I could be wrong about 9,12 but it looks a /tad/ to elaborate to not be a puzzle.
11:51:47 <int-e> I bet that's your feeling as well.
11:53:03 <shachaf> Right.
11:53:42 <shachaf> I've tried exiting it with a bunch of combinations of cats but I just don't see what combination could help get to 11,12.
11:53:55 <shachaf> And, of course, if I just don't see something in this game, that means it's impossible.
12:10:05 <shachaf> Hmm, I guess I'm pretty stuck for now.
12:10:28 <shachaf> Not even sure where to look.
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12:46:29 <shachaf> Oh, well, at least I got two cats to 7,16.
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12:47:19 <esolangs> [[Human's mind have sex with someone]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105744&oldid=105743 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+214) Reformatted the command table to express source code fragments as such.
12:52:48 <shachaf> I guess getting two cats opens some things up.
13:03:33 <esolangs> [[Table]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105745&oldid=104009 * Rdococ * (-7) 
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13:05:13 <esolangs> [[Talk:Powder]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105746&oldid=105731 * Rdococ * (+203) 
13:06:21 <esolangs> [[Table]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105747&oldid=105745 * Rdococ * (+53) /* Semantics */ Make lazy
13:08:15 <esolangs> [[Table]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105748&oldid=105747 * Rdococ * (+38) /* Semantics */ Add table parent attribute
13:08:34 <esolangs> [[Table]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105749&oldid=105748 * Rdococ * (+4) /* Truth machine */
13:11:08 <esolangs> [[Table]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105750&oldid=105749 * Rdococ * (+38) /* Truth machine */ Correct and golf a bit
13:11:20 <esolangs> [[Table]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105751&oldid=105750 * Rdococ * (-4) /* Truth machine */
13:15:18 <esolangs> [[Table]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105752&oldid=105751 * Rdococ * (+292) Add update operator
13:21:01 <esolangs> [[User talk:Yes]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105753&oldid=101578 * Alidonis * (+332) /* Request to add to the storage family */ new section
13:21:18 <esolangs> [[Table]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105754&oldid=105752 * Rdococ * (+101) /* Semantics */
13:34:17 <esolangs> [[Table]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105755&oldid=105754 * Rdococ * (+98) 
13:35:39 <esolangs> [[Table]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105756&oldid=105755 * Rdococ * (-28) /* Semantics */ Clarify updating semantics
13:38:09 <esolangs> [[Table]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105757&oldid=105756 * Rdococ * (+348) /* Examples */
13:38:27 <esolangs> [[Table]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105758&oldid=105757 * Rdococ * (-1) /* Lambda calculus */
13:39:01 <esolangs> [[Table]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105759&oldid=105758 * Rdococ * (+18) /* Semantics */
13:44:37 <esolangs> [[Table]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105760&oldid=105759 * Rdococ * (+457) Add translation from lambda calc
13:45:25 <esolangs> [[Talk:Table]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105761&oldid=43283 * Rdococ * (+128) 
13:45:42 <esolangs> [[Talk:Table]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105762&oldid=105761 * Rdococ * (+26) 
13:46:37 <esolangs> [[Tautologos]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105763&oldid=105726 * Rdococ * (+42) 
13:47:27 <esolangs> [[Tautologos]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105764&oldid=105763 * Rdococ * (+13) 
13:47:52 <esolangs> [[User:Rdococ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105765&oldid=105715 * Rdococ * (+80) /* Refurbished languages */
13:48:27 <esolangs> [[!Tautologos]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105766&oldid=105716 * Rdococ * (+8) 
13:48:59 <esolangs> [[Tautologos]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105767&oldid=105764 * Rdococ * (+8) 
13:55:59 <esolangs> [[DetailedFuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105768&oldid=104218 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+159) Added a See also section with a reference to the language Human's mind have sex with someone.
13:59:42 <esolangs> [[Rule]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105769&oldid=105723 * Rdococ * (+69) Fix erroneous TC conjecture
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14:54:47 <shachaf> int-e: Looking at it again. I haven't solved this one yet, so maybe this is a mechanic I'm missing or something, but does this look like a bug? https://slbkbs.org/tmp/su/2022-12-27-165321_1321x1314.png
14:55:13 <shachaf> I don't think this state should be reachable.
14:55:44 <shachaf> (Notice the pink backgrounds on the two cats that are supposed to be grayed out.)
15:01:25 <int-e> that looks wrong indeed
15:03:11 <int-e> Hmm. Why do I have only 18 stars now...
15:03:43 <esolangs> [[User:Alidonis/sandbox/instructions]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105770&oldid=105701 * Alidonis * (+24) 
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15:21:24 <shachaf> Oh man, the second solution to 11,17 is sneaky.
15:26:33 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move  * Rdococ *  moved [[Fi]] to [[Fi (Archived)]]: archive
15:26:33 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move  * Rdococ *  moved [[Talk:Fi]] to [[Talk:Fi (Archived)]]: archive
15:27:06 <esolangs> [[User:Rdococ]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105775&oldid=105765 * Rdococ * (-88) /* Refurbished languages */ deduplicate
15:27:16 <esolangs> [[User:Rdococ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105776&oldid=105775 * Rdococ * (-92) /* Refurbished languages */ deduplicate 2
15:28:29 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move  * Rdococ *  moved [[!Tautologos]] to [[!Tautologos (Archived)]]: archive
15:30:23 <esolangs> [[User:Rdococ]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105779&oldid=105776 * Rdococ * (-271) mergel anguage lists
15:34:29 <shachaf> OK, I see what you were saying about the map.
15:44:56 <esolangs> [[User:Rdococ]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105780&oldid=105779 * Rdococ * (-111) Describe better
15:45:02 <esolangs> [[User:Rdococ]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105781&oldid=105780 * Rdococ * (-8) 
15:46:39 <shachaf> Oh, this is a lot of new colorful rooms.
15:50:50 <esolangs> [[Talk:Trivial brainfuck substitution]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105782&oldid=69325 * Rdococ * (-18) /* I deleted the count. */
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15:54:22 <int-e> shachaf: can confirm that 9,12 is a puzzle
16:08:22 <shachaf> OK, 18+20+4
16:09:30 <shachaf> int-e: Hmm, but 9,12 doesn't use the (seeming) bug in my screenshot above, does it?
16:09:48 <shachaf> Apparently you can do that in any room that has gray cats and you don't enter onto a pink flag.
16:12:57 <shachaf> Not that it matters because I already know how to get three cats, I guess.
16:14:17 <shachaf> Well, hmm...
16:27:24 <shachaf> Now it says 18+18+4
16:36:54 <shachaf> Hmm, I got the "Nice try" star.
16:37:15 <int-e> shachaf: I have not encountered that bug.
16:38:06 <shachaf> It happens when you quit and continue the game in that state. And not in any room, I'm not quite sure what the conditions are.
16:39:13 <shachaf> Anyway, I assume my solution for the nice try star is correct, but it doesn't seem as hard as several other ones? I'm not sure.
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18:29:40 <int-e> shachaf: well, I haven't figured that one out yet
19:34:18 <int-e> But it's probably the next big thing to do. 18+22+9
21:22:28 <esolangs> [[Pointerfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105783 * Transoptimal * (+1468) Create pointerfuck language page
21:23:35 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105784&oldid=105690 * Transoptimal * (+18) Add pointerfuck
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21:26:11 <esolangs> [[Pointerfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105785&oldid=105783 * Transoptimal * (+26) Add Category:Low-level
21:37:15 <esolangs> [[Pointerfuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105786&oldid=105785 * Transoptimal * (+1187) Add examples
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21:44:52 <esolangs> [[Pointerfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105787&oldid=105786 * Transoptimal * (+155) Mention assumptions of cat example
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23:25:09 <shachaf> 18+22+6
23:25:19 <shachaf> I still have no idea what's going on with this meta thing.
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2022-12-28:

00:11:53 <b_jonas> fungot, is an epitomy painful? do they usually perform it under general anesthesia?
00:11:54 <fungot> b_jonas: and if you put a cond inside of,,, and opcodes can be replaced with any positive integer except 0.
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01:14:19 <esolangs> [[Talk:Easy]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105788&oldid=37333 * CatIsFluffy * (+229) /* Spec deviation in the implementation */ new section
01:56:34 <esolangs> [[Pointerfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105789&oldid=105787 * Transoptimal * (-226) Remove nonsensical example
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04:41:02 <esolangs> [[Talk:To The Top Right Corner]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105790 * Earthrulerr * (+137) Created page with "(I do not know how to use Discussion pages properly when creating them) I am going to work on creating an implementation for this in C++!"
04:41:24 <esolangs> [[Talk:To The Top Right Corner]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105791&oldid=105790 * Earthrulerr * (+18) 
04:41:40 <esolangs> [[Talk:To The Top Right Corner]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105792&oldid=105791 * Earthrulerr * (+2) 
04:41:52 <esolangs> [[Talk:To The Top Right Corner]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105793&oldid=105792 * Earthrulerr * (+0) 
04:48:50 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Captain Quack *  New user account
04:51:36 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105794&oldid=105696 * Captain Quack * (+103) /* Introductions */
04:51:59 <esolangs> [[User:Captain Quack]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105795 * Captain Quack * (+12) Created page with "qwertyuiop[\"
04:52:12 <esolangs> [[User talk:Captain Quack]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105796 * Captain Quack * (+5) Created page with "hello"
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06:35:31 <esolangs> [[*]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105797&oldid=100714 * Earthrulerr * (+418) 
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06:35:55 <esolangs> [[*]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105798&oldid=105797 * Earthrulerr * (+0) /* C++ */
06:36:48 <esolangs> [[User:Earthrulerr]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105799&oldid=105441 * Earthrulerr * (+39) /* Implementations: */
06:38:40 <esolangs> [[User:Earthrulerr]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105800&oldid=105799 * Earthrulerr * (-1) 
07:27:20 <int-e> 18+25+11, and I still don't have the "nice try" star. I got the one above that though which is more important.
07:29:52 <shachaf> Hmm, 18+22+12
07:30:21 <shachaf> There are only two stars on the map.
07:30:34 <int-e> hmm
07:31:30 <int-e> I also have two stars left. That's odd.
07:33:08 <int-e> I suspect something is wrong in the accounting for the bottom right area.
07:33:25 <shachaf> Yes. If you quit and resume, does your star number go down?
07:34:09 <int-e> Nope.
07:34:34 <int-e> That happened before though.
07:34:50 <int-e> https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/steve.png is what my map looks like, FWIW
07:35:07 <int-e> shachaf: maybe check that area to see whether the stars are actually gone?
07:35:38 <int-e> Or maybe go through it again, hmm.
07:35:43 <shachaf> Oh, you got the star in the meta area.
07:36:04 <shachaf> I think the duplicated star might have thrown off the accounting? Not really sure.
07:37:02 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Ian Park *  New user account
07:37:09 <int-e> shachaf: resetting a star down there deducts a star from your total.
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07:38:41 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105801&oldid=105794 * Ian Park * (+141) 
07:38:56 <int-e> So that's an easy way to lose up to 3 stars of progress.
07:39:24 <int-e> but it also puts the star on the map, hmm
07:39:31 <shachaf> Yep, so if I collect the duplicated star, it goes up by 2, then I reset and it goes down by 1, and then I collect a single star to proceed and it goes up by 1.
07:39:59 <shachaf> So that's a net gain of 1. But then if I quit and resume it goes back down.
07:40:46 <shachaf> Which seems like a bug, unless I'm missing something tricky.
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07:42:24 <int-e> Ah. Hmm. I have an idea where I /may/ have gotten extra stars.
07:43:08 <int-e> But I don't know... can you share your map maybe? There's one thing I'd like to check
07:43:45 <int-e> (the overview)
07:43:58 <shachaf> https://slbkbs.org/tmp/su/steve.png
07:44:59 <int-e> Yeah, so I know of one star that you're missing that's not on your map.
07:46:33 <shachaf> Makes sense.
07:47:06 <shachaf> Doesn't explain by itself how you have 25 and I have 22, but maybe there are multiple such stars.
07:47:32 <int-e> Yeah I don't have notes of where the stars were...
07:48:26 <shachaf> I wish it kept track of these things for you, especially for the cryptids.
07:48:32 <shachaf> So many places to search.
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07:51:07 <int-e> Oh wait, I know of two stars actually.
07:51:45 <int-e> We seem to have totally different cryptids too.
07:51:50 <int-e> That's funny.
07:52:52 <shachaf> I kind of wish I'd kept notes about where I found each one.
07:52:59 <int-e> FWIW, I think the meta is kind of like a hotel or prison for cryptids.
07:53:56 <int-e> so you have all those rooms with cryptids in them attached to the main hall/corridor.
07:54:44 <int-e> Anyway, I'll assume the difference in stars is legit.
07:54:56 <shachaf> Right, I sort of figured something like that.
07:55:00 <shachaf> But there is a star there.
07:55:09 <shachaf> Anyway, I'll get back to it later.
07:55:19 <int-e> There's also a door there :P
07:58:13 <shachaf> But I assume you haven't opened that door, whereas you have gotten the star.
08:11:33 <int-e> Right.
08:11:45 <int-e> Okay, bottom left done, one more cryptid.
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09:31:52 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Jazzedpineda *  New user account
09:42:57 <int-e> 18+25+16 and it looks like there are quite a few cryptids left at this point... I have 7 missing rooms.
09:43:36 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105802&oldid=105801 * Jazzedpineda * (+216) Added my introduction
09:44:21 <esolangs> [[ALLSCII]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105803&oldid=60479 * Jazzedpineda * (+159) Added implementation link
09:47:06 <shachaf> How do you know how many are missing?
09:52:07 <int-e> I have missing outlines.
09:52:36 <int-e> So 7 is a lower bound.
09:52:49 <int-e> I've updated https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/steve.png
09:53:04 <int-e> I saw that you have been to one of those rooms.
09:54:09 <int-e> Hmm, did I count correctly? I guess I counted the hole at 12,12
09:54:45 <int-e> So it's 6, not 7.
09:56:21 <int-e> Anyway, I still don't get the "nice try" star. And I think the other one may be literally impossible... there's a tradition for having an impossible star IIRC.
09:56:47 <shachaf> Hmm, you can increase your number of stars arbitrarily by collecting duplicated stars and resetting (but when you quit and continue it goes back down).
09:56:58 <shachaf> I assume this is a bug but I used it to look past the star door.
09:57:15 <shachaf> There was a star we thought was impossible for a while, but turned out to be possible, right?
09:57:45 <int-e> hmm, maybe
09:58:27 <int-e> In any case, it does look impossible to me right now.
09:59:04 <int-e> While the nice try star looks almost possible.
09:59:17 <int-e> So there's a difference :P
09:59:44 <shachaf> Which is the impossible one?
09:59:49 <shachaf> The one in the bottom right of your screenshot?
09:59:51 <int-e> 14,19
10:00:23 <shachaf> Yes, I don't have a story for what getting that one would look like either.
10:05:16 <int-e> I did forget a lot from part 1 though... otherwise I'd have found the second 7,20 star sooner.
10:06:37 <int-e> (V sbetbg gung lbh pna npgvingr frireny cvax syntf ng bapr)
10:07:07 <int-e> Which was heavily used in part 1... much less so this time.
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10:09:51 <shachaf> Hmm, that's true.
10:11:13 <shachaf> I'm pretty confused about where all the cryptids I'm missing could be hiding.
10:11:28 <esolangs> [[ALLSCII]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105804&oldid=105803 * Jazzedpineda * (+29) /* Truth-machine */ Fixed truth-machine program
10:12:03 <int-e> possible spoiler: Qvq lbh ernq nyy gur fvtaf?
10:13:11 <shachaf> I did tb guebhtu gjb jbezubyrf ng bapr rireljurer V svtherq bhg ubj gb.
10:13:15 <shachaf> If that's what you mean.
10:13:39 <shachaf> I'm not sure you can even get to the meta place without that?
10:14:11 <int-e> True
10:14:32 <int-e> Maybe there's more of those places than you think.
10:14:36 <shachaf> There are some screens where that just seems clearly impossible.
10:14:49 <shachaf> I guess this is one of those places where a map would be helpful.
10:14:56 <int-e> (Do you want a number? I've actually kept track.)
10:15:57 <shachaf> I haven't, so I'm not sure a number would help much.
10:16:04 <shachaf> But sure.
10:16:17 <int-e> 11 so far.
10:16:22 <int-e> I suspect I'm missing a couple.
10:18:43 <int-e> There's also a few places jvgu guerr jbezubyrf... V jbaqre...
10:19:59 <shachaf> Yes, I wondered about that too.
10:20:03 <shachaf> I could only do one pair.
10:20:20 <shachaf> I guess in theory you could have 4 outcomes there.
10:20:33 <int-e> Anyway. I think that's enough progress for today, for me.
10:20:49 <int-e> four... oh yes indeed.
10:20:59 <int-e> I didn't even think of that.
10:23:44 <shachaf> I did just get another idea for a thing I thought wasn't possible.
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10:25:48 <esolangs> [[ALLSCII]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105805&oldid=105804 * Jazzedpineda * (+198) /* Print "Antidisestablishmentarianism" */ Fixed antidisestablishmentarianism program
10:30:41 <shachaf> Hmm, no, I think my idea doesn't work.
10:31:14 <shachaf> (The goal is to trg gjb pngf bhg bs 14,17 which I now guess must be possible.)
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10:31:29 <esolangs> [[ALLSCII]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105806&oldid=105805 * Jazzedpineda * (+2) /* Truth-machine */ Fixed another truth-machine program
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10:34:59 <shachaf> Oh, wait, now I figured it out.
10:35:06 <shachaf> It's even a trick that's used elsewhere.
10:35:11 <int-e> :)
10:35:37 <int-e> that one took me a while
10:38:06 <shachaf> So that gets me Issac.
10:38:18 <int-e> yay
10:38:49 <shachaf> I don't even get a wormhole for this?
10:39:14 <int-e> Hmm, in the meta?
10:39:39 <int-e> I don't know when you get new wormholes there.
10:39:40 <shachaf> I just mean to avoid having to do that maneuver again.
10:39:47 <int-e> Ah
10:39:47 <shachaf> In 14,17.
10:39:55 <shachaf> I guess it's not really useful for anything else.
10:39:57 <int-e> There's a pretty short solution for that.
10:40:07 <int-e> And also that.
10:41:36 <shachaf> OK, I also don't know how to do 10,16. I guess it must have to do with the left side of 11,15.
10:41:38 <int-e> something like 20 moves starting from the flag.
10:42:11 <shachaf> Oh, interesting.
10:42:52 <shachaf> So there is.
10:43:46 <shachaf> I did it the pointlessly hard way, gvzvat gur png gheavat tenl va gur evtug cynpr nf nabgure bar fgrccrq bagb gur qhcyvpngbe.
10:43:54 <shachaf> I mean, it's not actually that hard, just a bit annoying.
10:45:10 <shachaf> Hmm... You can also double down in 13,17 when you do this. But I don't *think* that accomplishes anything?
10:50:35 <int-e> one cryptid is a good haul, isn't it ;-)
10:53:15 <shachaf> I don't see any way to get a cryptid out of 14,20
10:54:21 <int-e> Me neither. There's a bunch of rooms like this. Bayl bar pelcgvq tbrf va, naq gurer'f abguvat gung qhcyvpngrf gurz.
10:54:37 <int-e> (as far as my understanding of the game goes)
10:55:53 <shachaf> I guess pelcgvq means png.
10:56:01 <shachaf> Hey, I like png.
10:56:11 <int-e> It does.
10:56:19 <int-e> Of course it's an alien png.
10:56:36 <int-e> (at least to my mind)
10:57:00 <shachaf> One thing I'm not sure about is the exit to the left on 11,15 (the room with the door that gets unlocked by stars).
10:57:21 <shachaf> Maybe I already said that.
10:58:30 <int-e> you did, I chose not to comment
10:59:25 <shachaf> Right. Seems like a good choice.
11:00:02 <shachaf> I'll just wait until I'm legitimately at 24 stars.
11:02:32 <shachaf> It's obviously something.
11:09:07 <shachaf> 4,21 seems really close to a second solution.
11:11:09 <shachaf> <int-e> the wormholes are a cute QoL improvement
11:11:22 <shachaf> The good old days.
11:12:27 <int-e> they are!
11:12:30 <int-e> :)
11:13:25 <int-e> it's not the wormholes' fault that we're chasing cryptids
11:13:38 <shachaf> True enough.
11:17:51 <shachaf> Good thing the viewfinder tells you where every wormhole goes, so you don't need to write it down if you forget.
11:55:36 <shachaf> Oh, interesting, apparently taking notes about cryptids pays off.
11:56:59 <shachaf> Presumably you already noticed the thing I just noticed.
12:00:00 <shachaf> This suggests that some of these places indeed don't have cryptids.
12:00:37 <shachaf> I wish I had better notes.
12:01:32 <shachaf> It also suggests how to get the meta star maybe.
12:19:34 <shachaf> Whew. OK. That was a sneaky place for a cryptid.
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12:43:49 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Phao *  New user account
12:48:44 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105807&oldid=105802 * Phao * (+113) /* Introductions */
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15:18:42 <shachaf> Well, I used a duplicated star to get the meta star which put me over the threshold, retroactively legitimizing my duplicated star.
15:19:18 <shachaf> I can't believe I fell for that "deactivated players can read signs" the first time I looked at that room.
15:19:33 <shachaf> So I'm at 18+24+14
15:31:20 <b_jonas> shachaf: this is still N-step Steve, right? it's starting to sound like Baba is you
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15:54:50 <shachaf> Hmm, Baba is present in this game.
15:54:58 <shachaf> Though not in a very active role.
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16:39:56 <b_jonas> um
16:41:04 <b_jonas> so Baba is technically the main character of Baba is you, but she's not a character with lots of personality or unique superpowers so he isn't really what makes Baba is you unique
16:41:23 <b_jonas> the important characters are the text
16:42:32 <b_jonas> or, if you want to choose one, it's "IS"
17:12:42 <int-e> WHO is YOU?
17:14:29 <int-e> . o O ( BABA is JEOPARDY )
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19:57:43 <esolangs> [[Movi]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105808 * Yousurname * (+3188) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Movi |paradigms=imperative |author=[[User:Yousurname]] |year=[[:Category:2022|2022]] |memsys=[[:Category:Cell-based|Cell-based]] |dimensions=one-dimensional |class=[[:Category:Bounded-storage machine|Bounded-storage machine]] |influence=[[mov]] 
19:58:43 <esolangs> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105809&oldid=105784 * Yousurname * (+11) 
19:59:11 <esolangs> [[User talk:Yes]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105810&oldid=105753 * Yes * (+109) /* Request to add to the storage family */
20:02:04 <esolangs> [[User:Yousurname]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105811&oldid=95081 * Yousurname * (+14) 
20:16:38 <esolangs> [[Calculator fuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105812&oldid=42236 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+186) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the Calculator fuck programming language on GitHub.
20:19:21 <esolangs> [[Calculator fuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105813&oldid=105812 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+4289) Added information regarding the architecture, data types and instructions of the language, based upon the original HTML/JavaScript implementation, and deleted the Stub marker in the preamble.
20:19:53 <esolangs> [[Calculator fuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105814&oldid=105813 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+25) Added the category tag Implemented.
20:39:32 <esolangs> [[Tile/Textile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105815&oldid=105494 * Dtp09 * (+257) /* Compiler */
20:40:39 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move  * Dtp09 *  moved [[Tile/Textile]] to [[Textile]]: It felt like the right thing to do as an almost seperate language
20:43:28 <esolangs> [[Textile/brainfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105818 * Dtp09 * (+6378) Created page with " GET_PTR: { #get the memory address the pointer points to  push $FF,$FE  read  push $FF,$FF  read  }    GET_PTR_VAL: {  [GET_PTR]  read  }    POP: {  push  mul  add  }    DUPE_PTR: {      #store pc lo  push $FF,$FB  write      #store pc hi  add*2  [POP]  push $F
20:44:17 <esolangs> [[Textile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105819&oldid=105816 * Dtp09 * (+29) /* Brainfuck */
20:47:33 <esolangs> [[Textile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105820&oldid=105819 * Dtp09 * (-6) 
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21:11:29 <esolangs> [[Calculator fuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105821&oldid=105814 * Kaveh Yousefi * (-6) Removed the limitation to ASCII characters in printing the variables' values.
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21:55:21 <esolangs> [[Gdelang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105822&oldid=103726 * TJC games * (+30) /* Interpretation */
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23:41:08 <shachaf> b_jonas: If there's a main character text, perhaps it's YOU.
23:52:13 <esolangs> [[Movi]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105823&oldid=105808 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+24) /* See also */ Category
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2022-12-29:

00:31:47 <esolangs> [[Calculator fuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105824&oldid=105821 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+22) Added missing periods to entries in the instruction table.
00:44:06 <b_jonas> shachaf: hmm
00:44:16 <b_jonas> I'm not convinced
00:48:58 <shachaf> int-e: OK, that explains it. I didn't read those signs you said I should read closely enough.
02:55:59 <esolangs> [[*]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105825&oldid=105798 * Earthrulerr * (+76) /* C++ */
02:56:35 <esolangs> [[*]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105826&oldid=105825 * Earthrulerr * (+13) /* C++ */
03:03:52 <esolangs> [[To The Top Right Corner]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105827&oldid=102659 * Earthrulerr * (+158) 
03:21:08 <esolangs> [[To The Top Right Corner]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105828&oldid=105827 * Earthrulerr * (+15) /* Example */
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05:33:30 <shachaf> (Specifically I assumed "teleporter" meant "wormhole".)
07:06:05 <int-e> Oh no, I missed that too. I also missed *another* weird teleport possibility though... let's see if I can find a suitable place
07:07:11 <shachaf> Wait, your extra cryptids aren't from that? Then I'm confused about where they are from.
07:07:28 <shachaf> I'm at 18+24+17
07:09:53 <int-e> have you found the "extra hard" puzzles yet?
07:10:02 <shachaf> Current map: https://slbkbs.org/tmp/su/steve.png
07:10:08 <shachaf> I think the answer is no?
07:10:29 <int-e> it is no indeed. there's a cryptid there, maybe a star, I forgot.
07:10:48 <int-e> (in quotes because they really weren't that hard to my mind)
07:10:51 <shachaf> I've been trying to figure out how to go left in 11,20. There's obviously something there.
07:12:03 <int-e> that is the spot, yeah
07:12:26 <shachaf> Figures.
07:12:36 <shachaf> I've spent a while on that one and I still don't see it.
07:13:03 <int-e> and you're still missing a hint from a sign too
07:13:09 <int-e> which will give you a star
07:14:58 <int-e> (I wonder whether there are more hints that flew over my head)
07:16:33 <shachaf> Other loose ends are the "impossible" star at 14,19, where it's possible (or useful) to exit the meta room with the cryptid-locked door with two cats, and what's going on with the lake.
07:18:23 <shachaf> Hmm, tracking down signs sounds tedious. Maybe it's the one that says something about wormholes being between two barriers?
07:19:07 <int-e> nah it has nothing to do with teleportation
07:19:59 <int-e> Oh damn... the barrier thing might apply elsewhere too. I didn't even consider that.
07:21:55 <int-e> (So far I don't think it does though...)
07:22:53 <shachaf> Hmm, I doubt it's the one about the level editor.
07:23:15 <int-e> yeah I /hope/ that's just a way to find spoilers
07:23:28 <int-e> and maybe one or two extra levels that don't count for anything
07:24:22 <int-e> (for example, there's a level mentioned in the chat arena, though I forgot the coordinates)
07:25:40 <shachaf> Oh, hmm.
07:26:45 <shachaf> OK, current guess is that this applies to 14,8.
07:26:59 <shachaf> Aha, it appeared just after I said that.
07:30:08 <shachaf> Got it.
07:30:18 <int-e> okay, I made my first "hybrid" teleport
07:30:19 <shachaf> OK, I should have noticed that when I first saw the sign.
07:30:42 <shachaf> I've only done two of those.
07:32:35 <shachaf> Please invent a cryptographic protocol for spoiler-free finding the intersections of what we've both solved.
07:33:41 <shachaf> Anyway, 18+25+17
07:35:01 <int-e> You can't get to the lake with two kittens, I think?
07:37:06 <shachaf> Not as far as I know.
07:46:12 <shachaf> I was thinking the lake was a map or something before. It has a few suspicious similarities to the actual map.
07:46:27 <shachaf> But I'm more dubious now.
07:52:24 <shachaf> Man, I don't know what I'm missing in 11,20.
07:54:09 <shachaf> Oh, I think I just got it.
07:57:47 <shachaf> Right, OK.
07:57:53 <shachaf> I keep forgetting about this trick.
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08:19:43 <shachaf> So that brings me to 18+26+19
08:32:26 <int-e> Oh, an optional puzzle with a star!
08:34:30 <int-e> I think that's the one mentioned in the chat.
08:37:21 <shachaf> Is that the one at 8,9?
08:37:38 <shachaf> I haven't figured out how to get there yet.
08:37:52 <int-e> yep
08:40:00 <shachaf> Hmm, it doesn't seem to be via a teleport, at least.
08:58:13 <int-e> it's so easy to miss a teleport
09:28:43 <int-e> 18+26+21 (updated https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/steve.png too)
09:30:16 <int-e> And I still see two places where you've been that I missed. And of course the nice try star.
09:38:02 <shachaf> Which two?
09:39:13 <int-e> 4,16 and 8,11
09:39:14 <shachaf> Oh, you got the teleporter thing from the finale place.
09:39:57 <int-e> Well, I made another scan of my map...
09:40:27 <shachaf> Hmm, I think there's another thing I've figured out that maybe you haven't yet, but even saying anything about it is too much of a clue.
10:14:59 <int-e> another cryptid... and once again one that you don't have
10:15:24 <int-e> (well, when you last uploaded)
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10:15:58 <int-e> shachaf: I /may/ have figured out something that you haven't, as well.
10:17:53 <shachaf> Sounds very likely!
10:22:00 <int-e> one rather weird corner case was needed to get to the blue area (bottom left)
10:22:41 <int-e> There's a sort of tutorial room for that trick though.
10:23:39 <int-e> (gjryirpbzznguvegrra)
10:26:38 <int-e> and another candidate room for shenanigans...
10:27:47 <int-e> that will be annoying
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10:41:26 <int-e> false alarm I think
10:48:31 <shachaf> int-e: That corner case was needed for the bottom star of 7,20, right? Or do you mean something else?
10:55:50 <shachaf> Oh, right, and that star lets you get to the lake, I guess that's what you meant.
11:01:36 <int-e> yes that's what I meant
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11:16:16 <int-e> Okay, that was that star.
11:16:52 <int-e> (nice try)
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11:20:03 <int-e> But I didn't get the idea until I basically already had the star.
11:20:17 <shachaf> It's the only place that mechanic is used in that way, I think.
11:23:29 <shachaf> (Na rzcgl oyhr synt ba n ebbz obhaqnel lbh ragre ba.)
11:24:14 <int-e> yeah I don't see another opportunity for this on the map
11:26:04 <int-e> V jnf *gelvat* gb cerfreir n png gb gur evtug... gung qvqa'g jbex.
11:26:26 <int-e> But I did a better job of exploring the search space this time.
11:26:59 <int-e> So the count is now 18+27+22
11:27:53 <int-e> (and that will be it for now)
11:27:55 <shachaf> I'm still at 18+26+19
11:28:02 <shachaf> I think maybe you have a superset of what I have now?
11:28:39 <int-e> No, I still lack those two rooms I mentioned.
11:28:47 <int-e> Which I assume contain a cryptid each.
11:29:46 <shachaf> Oh, hmm.
11:31:36 <int-e> https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/steve.png still has 3 obvious holes...
11:32:29 <int-e> Anyway except for that star, all I've done today was look for teleportation opportunities.
11:36:02 <int-e> At least it's starting to look complete. What I had previously looked like swiss cheese.
11:37:58 <int-e> Wait, does the map spell out "US" with its walls?
11:39:33 <shachaf> I guess so.
11:43:58 <shachaf> I'm very puzzled by the 14,19 "impossible" star.
11:44:39 <int-e> maybe there's a call-a-friend joker somewhere in the game
11:45:21 <int-e> (an extra kitten is the closest I have to an idea... and there's just nothing there to make it happen)
11:46:01 <int-e> well, actually... now that I say that
11:46:30 <int-e> Nah, I've got nothing. Just hallucinations.
11:48:52 <int-e> Oh, actually... I do have a story.
11:49:26 <int-e> Wow, I need to try this.
11:52:43 <shachaf> Got it.
11:53:16 <shachaf> Whew.
11:53:55 <esolangs> [[Talk:SS]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105829&oldid=19940 * TJC games * (+87) /* Hmmm */ new section
11:54:53 <int-e> That worked.
11:56:05 <shachaf> Man, this is reminiscent of how we both spent a while on 5,15.
11:56:51 <int-e> A bit, yes.
11:58:00 <int-e> Well, that was obvious in retrospect. Typical.
11:59:16 <int-e> Chfuvat fgnef nebhaq whfg qbrfa'g pbzr anghenyyl gb zr :-P
12:00:13 <int-e> But I also hadn't thought of backtracking that far.
12:01:32 <esolangs> [[It Is Not What It Is]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105830&oldid=103164 * TJC games * (+16) /* examples */
12:22:06 <esolangs> [[It Is Not What It Is]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105831&oldid=105830 * TJC games * (+45) /* examples */
12:24:31 <esolangs> [[It Is Not What It Is]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105832&oldid=105831 * TJC games * (-1) /* examples */
12:28:53 <esolangs> [[Geolang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105833&oldid=100254 * TJC games * (+17) /* Links */
12:29:15 <esolangs> [[Geolang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105834&oldid=105833 * TJC games * (-117) /* Links */
12:31:14 <esolangs> [[User:TJC games]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105835&oldid=105606 * TJC games * (-63) 
12:36:07 <esolangs> [[Talk:DimensionDoors]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105836 * TJC games * (+53) /* /* Oh so like the minecraft mod? */ new section */ new section
12:36:16 <esolangs> [[Talk:DimensionDoors]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105837&oldid=105836 * TJC games * (-18) /* /* Oh so like the minecraft mod? */ new section */
14:55:36 <b_jonas>  an impossible star that's obvious in retrospect. yes, I was stuck on two of those in Patrick's Parabox for a while
14:57:02 <b_jonas> it was Wall 7 that seemed impossible for quite a while
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16:50:58 <shachaf> This game is a fair bit harder than Patrick's Parabox, I think.
17:51:59 <int-e> Being obvious in retrospect is really the hallmark of good puzzles. There's a bad kind... "I did nothing special for 257 moves and now it's somehow solved."
18:01:08 <int-e> (Where they make levels hard simply by making them huge with a big search space. Sokoban suffered a bit from that, but at least for the original levels, has the redeeming quality that the levels split into components that can be analyzed separately.)
18:02:11 <int-e> https://store.steampowered.com/app/879850/Box_The_Game/ is a strong offender there to my mind.
18:03:04 <int-e> (There's a demo and the first 20 out of 50 levels are kind of fun.)
18:03:08 <int-e> Oh it has no undo.
18:05:40 <int-e> This thing to the right here is an actual later level and they get even bigger: https://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/879850/header.jpg?t=1633383672
18:08:37 <int-e> What other complaints did I have... the UI is rather clunky, being uselessly 3D and for later levels, only allowing you to view part of it at once. And I dug into the resources and found beauties like a, uh, I forgot, 50MB maybe, sky texture? And levels are actually stored as 3D models, including the floor... they're huge. I never managed to decode them (which was why I went there originally.)
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18:37:17 <zzo38> I have not played that game but I think that you are right, since I do not like those things either, and I have seen other puzzle games that have these problems. It is why I like Hero Hearts and why I made up my own implementation (with, in my opinion, some improvements than the original).
18:39:02 <zzo38> Do you like Hero Hearts?
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20:40:28 <esolangs> [[*]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105838&oldid=105826 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-32) /* C++ */ Formatting
22:14:23 <b_jonas> int-e: yep, that shows it's a good puzzle
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2022-12-30:

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06:59:21 <zzo38> Does any of you make up any puzzle games?
07:10:53 <int-e> shachaf: Oh I realized that I *still* didn't understand the "nice try" star. Something truly weird happens before you get it.
07:14:35 <shachaf> What do you mean?
07:17:51 <int-e> I mean this (spoiler): https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/weird-steve.png ...to my mind, I should die on the next step no matter what I do. But I don't.
07:18:33 <int-e> (weird physics)
07:20:04 <shachaf> You do die, right? But then the gray cat gets pushed up.
07:20:23 <int-e> Yes, but why?
07:20:32 <int-e> I mean, I can model this easily enough.
07:20:38 <int-e> But it's a change of model.
07:20:47 <shachaf> Hmm, is this different from what's happening on 9,17?
07:21:25 <int-e> I mean, gur ebpx vf fghpx!
07:22:00 <int-e> yes, it's different.
07:22:23 <int-e> Or rather, that mechanic isn't the one that confuses me.
07:22:29 <int-e> s/fuses/fused/
07:23:58 <int-e> the second life mechanic is used a lot, gb gur rkgerzr jurer lbh pna hfr gryrcbegref juvyr qrnq.
07:24:32 <int-e> (you'll know this but if anybody else plays the game it would be a spoiler)
07:27:21 <shachaf> Oh, hmm.
07:29:16 <shachaf> I see, you're right, that is subtle.
07:31:45 <int-e> Actually it makes sense if I think of this as a programmer, in terms of the simplest way to implement pushing.
07:32:50 <int-e> (which is: cebcntngr n "fubpx jnir" gb qrgrezvar juvpu vgrzf pbhyq or chfurq, gura erfbyir gur chfurf va erirefr beqre, purpxvat sbe pbyyvfvbaf)
07:33:27 <int-e> quite possibly using recursion?
07:33:37 <int-e> Hmm.
07:34:11 <int-e> How many corner cases could this have ;-)
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08:50:21 <shachaf> Has anyone else here played the game?
08:50:26 <shachaf> Maybe b_jonas or zzo38 should.
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09:17:05 <int-e> Oh no, https://slbkbs.org/tmp/su/steve.png is currently not a map.
10:05:48 <int-e> shachaf: Well, 25 cryptids, and still missing one that you have.
10:20:16 <int-e> Hmm could there be 28 in total?
10:22:55 <int-e> (I have one visibly missing room and two more inactive wormholes in an isolated corner of a room)
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10:32:35 <int-e> omg
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10:33:00 <int-e> I think I got the point of another one...
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11:05:31 <int-e> 27 and still missing one of shachaf's.
11:30:11 <esolangs> [[Table]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105839&oldid=105760 * Rdococ * (+77) /* Semantics */ Patch recursive update semantics
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11:48:20 <int-e> There, finally.
11:50:13 <int-e> shachaf: 18+28+28
11:51:57 <int-e> Apparently that's not the end
11:53:27 <int-e> (There's a screenshot with 29 rescued cryptids and an extra "100% Complete!" label)
12:09:05 <int-e> LOL
12:11:45 <int-e> Okay, that was the 29th cryptid. Tsk, tsk.
12:32:30 <int-e> Also by the 28th cryptid I finally realized that I didn't have to scour the map for opportunities...
12:34:38 <int-e> spoiler: (V fgebatyl oryvrir gung nyy gur qbhoyr jnecf gnxr lbh rknpgyl 5 ebbzf abegu fb lbh pna jbex onpxjneqf sebz gur cbgragvny gnetrgf. Juvpu vf nabgure ernfba jul gubfr vfbyngrq jbezubyrf rkvfg, ncneg sebz vaqvpngvat gb gur cynlre gung gurer'f fbzrguvat yrsg gb svaq.)
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16:58:26 <shachaf> int-e: Yes, that's the thing I said you might not have figured out yet.
16:58:37 <int-e> You were right.
16:58:54 <int-e> Well, I knew everything but didn't put it together.
16:59:03 <int-e> :P
16:59:13 <int-e> That is how these things go.
16:59:28 <int-e> Oh
16:59:50 <int-e> Sorry, I think I messed up the context of this.
17:00:07 <int-e> What I just said applied to the lake area.
17:01:46 <int-e> Where basically, V unq pbaivaprq zlfrys gung V pna'g unir gjb xvggraf nyvir ng gur fnzr gvzr, naq fgbccrq gelvat gurer... jung n sbby V jnf.
17:03:10 <shachaf> Wait, you can teleport from the lake?
17:03:20 <int-e> Nono
17:03:32 <int-e> I mean the whole set of 6 rooms there.
17:04:15 <int-e> 4,21
17:04:16 <shachaf> Oh, you mean 4,21?
17:04:20 <shachaf> Right.
17:04:22 <shachaf> I have that one.
17:04:52 <shachaf> I thought that's the one you were talking about when you said something about three wormholes before.
17:04:57 <int-e> Yeah. You had that one for ages, while for me it was the 28th cryptid.
17:05:17 <int-e> Oh I had no specific room in mind for that.
17:05:59 <int-e> there are at least four such rooms.
17:06:07 <shachaf> So you're at 100% now?
17:06:16 <int-e> Yes
17:06:32 <int-e> 18+28+(28+1)
17:06:44 <shachaf> I guess I'm pretty far behind, I didn't work on it at all today.
17:06:57 <shachaf> Still at 18+27+19
17:07:06 <shachaf> I guess it's just looking for more teleportation opportunities.
17:07:37 <int-e> I must have gone over the whole map half a dozen times.
17:08:40 <int-e> But I guess you basically know where to look.
17:16:59 <int-e> I kind of wish the game had a gallery of collected cryptids.
17:17:40 <int-e> I mean I guess I could replay it and save screenshots *before* collecting each cryptid rather than after (as I actually did)
17:18:07 <int-e> though there's a couple of things I really don't want to do a second time :P
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19:16:02 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * IdfbAn *  New user account
19:21:33 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105840&oldid=105807 * IdfbAn * (+250) 
20:12:13 <zzo38> What are the rules of this game?
20:15:08 <int-e> it's vaguely sokoban-esque, and the big rule is that you have a counter that counts down on each move and cannot drop to 0; there are flags that refresh the counter
20:15:13 <int-e> the rest is up to the player to discover
20:15:37 <int-e> including various way to bend the rules
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20:21:24 <esolangs> [[UpDown]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105841 * IdfbAn * (+1138) Created page with "'''UpDown''' is a programming language made on 30 December 2022 by [[User:IdfbAn]]. UpDown has 26 variables for every letter in the English alphabet (A-Z), and 3 commands: <code>up</code>, <code>down</code>, and <code>print</code>. The values of all the variables are 0 by
20:23:02 <esolangs> [[User:IdfbAn]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105842 * IdfbAn * (+36) Created page with "Hello, I'm IdfbAn. Why are you here?"
20:23:57 <esolangs> [[User:IdfbAn]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105843&oldid=105842 * IdfbAn * (+75) 
20:24:09 <esolangs> [[User:IdfbAn]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105844&oldid=105843 * IdfbAn * (+7) 
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22:07:58 <esolangs> [[User talk:Yes]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105845&oldid=105810 * Alidonis * (+136) /* Request to add to the storage family */ replied to yes' reply
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22:24:58 <esolangs> [[User:Alidonis/sandbox/]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105846 * Alidonis * (+653) Created page with " is a programming language inspired by [[User:Yes]]' Storage Format Family of programming languages. it however, requires a multi-tape recorder with a 6510 CPU and a commodore 64 to opperate properly.<ref>That does not exist, i just made it up.</ref> == C
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22:48:59 <Guest71> hello
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23:29:05 <esolangs> [[User:Alidonis/sandbox/]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105847&oldid=105846 * Alidonis * (+400) 
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2022-12-31:

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00:58:35 <esolangs> [[User talk:Yes]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105848&oldid=105845 * Alidonis * (+73) /* Request to add to the storage family */
00:59:03 <esolangs> [[User:Alidonis/sandbox/]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105849&oldid=105847 * Alidonis * (-77) 
01:00:37 <esolangs> [[User:Alidonis/sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105850&oldid=105702 * Alidonis * (+66) 
01:03:48 <esolangs> [[User:Alidonis/sandbox/]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105851&oldid=105849 * Alidonis * (+39) 
01:11:00 <esolangs> [[User:Alidonis/sandbox/instructions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105852&oldid=105770 * Alidonis * (+130) Replit link
01:11:16 <esolangs> [[Truth Machine (language)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105853&oldid=93252 * Phao * (-6) /* Interpreter in Python */
01:11:24 <esolangs> [[User:Alidonis/sandbox/instructions]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105854&oldid=105852 * Alidonis * (+5) 
01:58:27 <esolangs> [[How to learn "How to learn 'How to learn this language'"]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105855 * Username1234 * (+40) Redirected page to [[How to learn this language]]
02:39:02 <b_jonas> Tom7's video for Pac Tom level 2 complete is released
02:40:20 <b_jonas> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1c8i5SABqwU
02:59:21 <esolangs> [[Ios sync with stdio(false);]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105856 * Username1234 * (+3797) Created page with "{{lowercase}} {{wrongtitle|title=ios::sync_with_stdio(false);}}  == Introduction ==  '''ios::sync_with_stdio(false);''' is an esolang, which only use one command <code>ios::sync_with_stdio(false);</code>.  == Command ==  You can seperate two <co
03:00:33 <esolangs> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105857&oldid=105809 * Username1234 * (+34) /* I */
03:21:54 <esolangs> [[User:Username1234]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105858&oldid=105563 * Username1234 * (+64) /* I */
03:22:53 <esolangs> [[User:Username1234]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105859&oldid=105858 * Username1234 * (+0) 
03:43:59 <zzo38> If a puzzle game is available for NES/Famicom or Game Boy then I might be able to use it on my computer, or if it is a FOSS program written in C then it might be possible, or if the puzzle can be reimplemented in Free Hero Mesh (which many sokoban-like games and Hero-Hearts-like games can, although some might not)
03:44:45 <esolangs> [[Number]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105860 * Username1234 * (+466) Created page with "{{WIP}}  == Introduction == '''Number''' is a joke language.   == Command ==  Any number can be a command. This language is output only.   The output can only contain these characters: <code> !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijk
04:11:17 <esolangs> [[Number]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105861&oldid=105860 * Username1234 * (+409) 
04:11:52 <esolangs> [[Number]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105862&oldid=105861 * Username1234 * (-2) /* Command */
04:12:13 <esolangs> [[Number]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105863&oldid=105862 * Username1234 * (+0) /* Command */
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07:50:46 <esolangs> [[UpDown]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105864&oldid=105841 * IdfbAn * (+374) Add "Hello, World!" and "External resources" sections
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10:29:34 <esolangs> [[Talk:B sharp]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105865 * Rdococ * (+272) Created page with "== Not C? == I tried using a B# compiler for my C programs and got a bunch of strange looking syntax & runtime errors. Are you sure B# is C or is it just incompatible with my 19-TET computer? ~~~~"
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10:43:56 <esolangs> [[3 bytes :v)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105866&oldid=99580 * IdfbAn * (+82) Add interpreter that I made for this language
11:03:09 <esolangs> [[Whyfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105867&oldid=45674 * IdfbAn * (+1) Fix typo
11:52:45 <esolangs> [[Category:2023]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105868 * Hakerh400 * (+11) Category for the new year
11:53:20 <esolangs> [[Template:Yearcats]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105869&oldid=91440 * Hakerh400 * (+26) Category for the new year
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11:59:19 <IdfbAn> Yo! Just curious, why is the wiki logo 3 slices of lime (or whatever they are)?
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12:31:58 <int-e> https://logs.esolangs.org/freenode-esoteric/2005-08-31.html#lqe 
12:34:17 <IdfbAn> int-e so was it just meant to be a placeholder
12:34:20 <IdfbAn> ?
12:35:56 <int-e> Maybe? It was supposed to be different from the default Mediawiki logo. People had been tossing around ideas but nothing really gained traction.
12:37:09 <int-e> In a way it's the perfect logo... it doesn't favor any particular esoteric programming language, nor does it distract from them ;-)
12:37:18 <IdfbAn> ok so basically they chose oranges (and then limes) because why not?
12:38:04 <int-e> (I personally don't think of it as a logo. It's just an image because mediawiki wants an image there :-P)
12:38:35 <IdfbAn> well the favicon is also the image so
12:38:36 <int-e> But regardless, it's safe to say that it has no deep meaning.
12:39:21 <int-e> I keep forgetting that favicons are a thing. (They annoy me so I've disabled them.)
12:39:28 <IdfbAn> alright, thanks for the answer
12:40:04 <int-e> It's also been over 17 years so I don't expect it to change :)
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12:56:25 <fizzie> It's called the "trilime", I believe.
12:57:48 <int-e> that sounds like justification after the fact to me
12:59:23 <fizzie> Yes, I think giving it a name and making it a Thing was the same sort of silliness as that stuff about the matrix of solidity.
13:06:47 <esolangs> [[UpDown]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105870&oldid=105864 * IdfbAn * (+2) 
13:09:41 <int-e> Is it an early prototype of a tricycle?
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15:15:47 <b_jonas> yeah, naming things is hard and choosing logos is hard too
16:09:38 <esolangs> [[Ios sync with stdio(false);]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105871&oldid=105856 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+68) Categories
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18:21:19 <b_jonas> we have very few people who are in east enough timezones, but happy new year to anyone who is already there
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22:18:22 <b_jonas> oh right, Happy New Year to everyone in Finland etc
22:18:30 <b_jonas> I'm late by like 18 minutes
22:18:45 <b_jonas> we actually have regulars in that timezone
22:19:29 <b_jonas> (or those timezones because there are like three of them)
23:03:20 <b_jonas> HNY
23:04:26 <int-e> @metar ZGHY
23:04:33 <int-e> oh right, that stopped working
23:04:41 <lambdabot> Plugin `metar' failed with: <<timeout>>
23:04:50 <b_jonas> Happy New Year to everyone in this timezone, in Spain, France, Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Austria, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary, Slovenia, Serbia, etc
23:05:06 <int-e> (cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hengyang_Nanyue_Airport = HNY = ZGHY)
23:10:57 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Nathan *  New user account
23:12:51 <esolangs> [[SMG4: Mario Gets His PINGAS Stuck In The Door]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105872&oldid=100347 * Leomok2009 * (+54) 
23:14:05 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105873&oldid=105840 * Nathan * (+108) /* Introductions */
23:17:45 <esolangs> [[User:Nathan]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105874 * Nathan * (+9) Created page with "hey there"
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