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06:16:02 <Sgeo> Are there any game theory analyses of Ahyoheek/Ayoheek?
06:49:07 <zzo38> I don't know what is "Ahyoheek/Ayoheek"
07:06:56 <Sgeo> https://archive.guildofarchivists.org/wiki/Ahyoheek (it's pen beats page beats beetle, not sure why that's unclear on here)
07:07:21 <Sgeo> Sort of a rock/paper/scissors game except 2-5 player, and the goal is to win with one object 3 times
07:09:31 <Sgeo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr7Mwrb5vAE
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08:59:02 <Sgeo> Suppose my opponent has two Pens. If they throw Pen and I throw Book, they win. So I should throw either Beetle or Pen, right? Random? Or should I still have a chance of throwing Book in case they try to go Beetle to catch me throwing Pen?
08:59:53 <Sgeo> And then in larger games there can be a prisoner's dilemma and tragedy of the commons, where people should block someone who might be about to win, but individuals might choose to throw whatever would beat that
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09:56:13 <int-e> odd that there aren't 5 objects :-P
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10:04:41 <wib_jonas> ``` datei # is it just me, or are you in the future too, HackEso?
10:04:43 <HackEso> 2023-01-03 10:04:42.369 +0000 UTC January 3 Tuesday 2023-W01-2
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10:39:17 <int-e> Oh right, it's that time of the year again where I want to send an email from my gmail account and it has automatically re-re-re-re-re-enabled the setting that disallows so-called less secure apps from sending email.
10:41:17 <int-e> Err what now. "This setting is no longer available. Learn more"
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10:46:17 <int-e> Whatever. It took me 7 months to notice the change. I guess I just won't bother.
10:52:38 <fizzie> I've never really understood why (a) "app passwords" are only available for accounts with two-factor auth turned on (as opposed to being an option for any account, instead of providing your actual password), and (b) why you can't set the same limited scopes for them that you can for actual OAuth clients.
10:52:40 <fizzie> Although I guess the most likely reason for (b) is that choosing the scopes is something only developers are expected to understand.
10:54:35 <int-e> Oh right, "app passwords" are a thing. They aren't even visible to me.
10:54:53 <fizzie> That'd be due to (a) most likely.
10:57:02 <int-e> And the OAuth crap requires a developer account in my context.
11:00:29 <int-e> fizzie: Right but you also said that you don't understand (a) :-)
11:00:57 <esolangs> [[Barely]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105904&oldid=65412 * Salpynx * (+4) correct capitalisation, and link
11:01:57 <int-e> And finally, where is your fucking logout button...
11:02:27 <int-e> (Apparently that's only an option for *other* sessions, not the "current" one.)
11:03:06 <int-e> Though I bet that there's still some well-hidden link that continues to work, but it's not advertised anywhere.
11:03:54 <wib_jonas> int-e: logout for what, the web interface or for an app using app password?
11:04:13 <int-e> the google account
11:05:00 <fizzie> There's a "Sign out" button in the account "disc" for me, at least.
11:05:29 <wib_jonas> int-e: top right round face/avatar picture in gmail, opens a menu, click "Sign out" in that
11:06:02 <int-e> Maybe I missed it. I did read the "Sign out of Gmail" help page though, and that sent me to the account/devices thing.
11:06:33 <int-e> Anyway. Sorry for the rant, this upsets me more than it should.
11:07:36 <int-e> 2FA may be the path of least resistance for me actually, since U2F is an option.
11:11:25 <int-e> Will app passwords even work the way I want though? Or does using an app password without being logged into the google account before trigger the whole 2FA process?
11:40:52 <fizzie> As far as I know, they work in the expected way -- as in, they're pretty much an exemption from 2FA. I used to use them for mutt and Thunderbird. But I've not used them for the last year or so. And given the same "less secure apps" vs. "more secure apps" phrasing in the help pages about app passwords, I wouldn't be incredibly surprised if they got the same deprecation too.
11:43:48 <fizzie> Coincidentally, I just got the December Search performance report for esolangs.org in my Gmail inbox.
11:43:59 <fizzie> It continues to be underwhelming.
11:44:25 <fizzie> "brainfuck" is still the top performing query, driving a total of 12 (!) clicks.
12:02:58 <fizzie> That's over three a day.
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15:04:40 <esolangs> [[CTFuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105905&oldid=104693 * Pro465 * (-10) remove specification of bijective base 10
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15:43:20 <Melvar> Thought: an esolang that’s a concatenative language but the implicit data structure is a map/dict rather than a stack. All the builtins have hardcoded keys that they take their arguments and leave their results at. Primitive “push” commands include a key, e.g. `a:6` to set entry `a` to `6`. Currently pondering whether having a primitive for movement/reassignment is necessary or if a builtin
15:44:37 <Melvar> (If you need to tell a procedure to do something at a variable key, you need to pass the variable key as the value at a hardcoded key.)
15:49:26 <Melvar> Hmm. I guess to store lists, you do kind of need some ways to manipulate keys as values?
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17:09:18 <esolangs> [[Skim machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105906&oldid=68223 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+177) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the Skim machine programming language on GitHub and changed the category tag Unimplemented to Implemented.
17:11:47 <esolangs> [[Skim machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105907&oldid=105906 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+270) Added an examples section with an addition program as its incipient member.
17:16:50 <esolangs> [[Skim machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105908&oldid=105907 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+1831) Added further information regarding the syntax.
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18:49:55 <b_jonas> `slashlearn password//The password of the month is non-(mint-flavored) dental floss.
18:49:58 <HackEso> Relearned 'password': The password of the month is non-(mint-flavored) dental floss.
19:19:13 <esolangs> [[Skim machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105909&oldid=105908 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+585) Relocated the instruction pattern into the newly introduced command section.
20:44:45 <shachaf> Melvar: That sounds a lot like registers?
20:45:05 <shachaf> I guess the idea here is that you have an addressing mode for talking about registers dynamically, which is maybe less common.
20:45:35 <shachaf> I guess AVR or something has that?
20:45:54 <int-e> the more registers, the better the organ?
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22:30:25 <Melvar> shachaf: I suppose it does, but there’s an unbounded number of registers and operations can’t have something that looks like the arguments of an asm instruction, they just have to hardcode what registers their args are in.
22:33:56 <Melvar> Also, the closest thing to a pointer is to put a map key / register name into another register, at least that’s what I’m thinking at the moment.
22:36:44 <b_jonas> bwahahaha! spam email in HTML that has the text of a link starting with "https;//", presumably to work around antivirus or antispam measures that trigger on when the link text is an URL but very different from the target
22:37:30 <Melvar> Another way to look at it is that literally everything is a global variable and procedures just have to read globals for their inputs and write globals for their outputs.
22:37:45 <int-e> ARGH. Firefox does autocorrect that.
22:40:27 <Melvar> So basically it becomes a challenge of not clobbering something you still need while putting everything where the procedures you’re using expect it. I suppose getting anything done would devolve into figuring out how to implement a stack on top of this.
22:47:32 <b_jonas> Melvar: traditional BASIC and I think INTERCAL only have parameterless subroutine calls, so you generally use global variables to pass arguments. the same happens in machine-code programs on 6502 and other old processors because they don't have efficient stack-relative access, so it's easier to pass arguments in the null page or other fixed addresses, or in registers for processors with more registers.
22:48:54 <b_jonas> technically my scan esolang also doesn't have function parameters, but that's mostly an accident because it was just a toy experiment that I abandoned before I implemented function parameter passing
23:06:24 <Melvar> Interesting and good to know.