< 1672790494 837010 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-183.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :though 6502 isn't quite a good example because it at least has instructions to push/pop registers to the stack to save them < 1672790525 499477 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-183.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but even so it mostly uses registers < 1672790540 133579 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-183.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :effectively the 256 null page bytes work as the most easily accessible global registers < 1672791046 70974 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-183.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :these days we don't really do this, partly because current CPUs and languages support stack-relative access or other way to do local variables well, plus we don't want to code to break if a function is called twice at the same time from potential recursion or multithreading < 1672791080 559489 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-183.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :multithreading in the broad sense < 1672791092 198201 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-183.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :cooperative threads count too < 1672791295 868882 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1672792306 187126 :immibis_!~immibis@i689751E6.versanet.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1672792321 251201 :immibis_!~immibis@i689751E6.versanet.de JOIN #esolangs immibis :realname > 1672795791 825759 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Skim machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105910&oldid=105909 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (+1) 10Inserted a missing space following a comma (,) in the EBNF in order to promote consistency in the formatting. < 1672799949 445234 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :How do multi-stage games work in game theory? < 1672799967 712078 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :e.g. the players take an action, they see the results, then take more actions < 1672799993 211470 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :Which... I guess is most games more complicated than prisoner's dilemma or rock-paper-scissors < 1672810680 832264 :slavfox!~slavfox@93.158.232.111 QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in < 1672810984 261634 :slavfox!~slavfox@93.158.232.111 JOIN #esolangs slavfox :slavfox < 1672813284 739153 :bgs!~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net JOIN #esolangs bgs :bgs > 1672814629 798825 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Octogeddonling 5* 10New user account > 1672815233 675148 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105911&oldid=105890 5* 03Octogeddonling 5* (+128) 10/* Introductions */ > 1672815302 543443 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105912&oldid=105911 5* 03Octogeddonling 5* (+30) 10Sorry i forgot to scan all of the informations above > 1672815710 638064 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Raplan14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105913 5* 03Phao 5* (+7571) 10Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=SYCPOL |paradigms=procedural, imperative |author=[[Phao|User:Phao]] |year=[[:Category:2023|2023]] |memsys=variable-based |dimensions=one-dimensional }} '''''WARNING:This file is formatted use markdown, so it have not styles in [[Main Page|esolangs.o < 1672815804 54448 :bgs!~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1672818446 474874 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-183.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sgeo: as in games that aren't complete information or have randomness? < 1672818608 811723 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :Which does a game like rock-paper-scissors count as? < 1672818785 22262 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-183.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sgeo: that's one with non-complete information, but games with randomness might best be regarded as a subset of games with non-complete information < 1672818798 180045 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-183.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's just that you might think of the latter as a special case of the former < 1672818968 455426 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-183.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :think, if you wish, of Scrabble or card games like contract bridge or Magic: the Gathering, which have both randomness and hidden information; and adversarial mastermind/hangman/wordle or twenty question where an opponent tries to choose a hard solution to guess, or Starcraft or Warcraft or Age of Empires as examples for games with hidden information (the word to be guessed or the state behind fog of < 1672818974 491640 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-183.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :war if you wish) < 1672819047 867610 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-183.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the randomness doesn't really add much new once you have hidden information, because random strategies naturally arise as the best often in games with hidden information < 1672819399 590429 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-183.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :whereas eg. go=baduk is a finite game with perfect information, no randomness, which means if the parties have unlimited computational power then it's not necessary to use random strategies, because in every state the outcome with both players playing best is predetermined < 1672819675 463889 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1672822045 137268 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105914&oldid=105556 5* 03Octogeddonling 5* (+100) 10/* General languages */ > 1672822147 867715 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Treee14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105915 5* 03Octogeddonling 5* (+2588) 10created > 1672822254 325574 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Treee14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105916&oldid=105915 5* 03Octogeddonling 5* (+1) 10/* Grammar */ < 1672825322 540075 :EnergyAlp!uid568065@user/utoneq QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1672825794 132106 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas < 1672828571 856149 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1672828720 148817 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1672829703 455082 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: Oh I see, the avatar where googlemail has the sign out button is invisible to me. < 1672829732 754885 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :as a result of me blocking googleusercontent.com < 1672829836 480386 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: oops, I don't think I've encountered that for google in particular, but I've seen that kind of nonsense in other webpages plenty of times. like in the in-house developed work time keeping web application in our previous job, where you could suddenly change your password iff your browser window is wide enough, because it has some kind of CSS < 1672829836 979254 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :nonsense that helpfully hides some of the UI elements on normal sized windows so the rest would fit more easily < 1672829901 285229 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: just to confirm, does the hidden avatar happen also in google search and google drive, or only google mail? < 1672829918 135478 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :heck, or even youtube < 1672829941 240769 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn JOIN #esolangs toonn :Unknown < 1672829974 704347 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, youtube might be different, at least I get a different avatar with just a letter in a circle because I have customized my displayed username on youtube < 1672830244 274766 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: which is a me problem, but the UI doesn't even look like anything is missing in that corner: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/hidden_avatar.png < 1672830265 254909 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(because they also put icons to the right < 1672830361 725218 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: I don't know. The whole point of logging out is that there'll be no avatar in search or youtube < 1672830412 608885 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: it's kind of an us problem, I use browser plugins in a way that invisibly break some webpages. though you can also blame web developers for it, because some of these webpages can also break in a way where if a script or other resources is missing, even if not because you block it with a plugin, but because of a network error, then it caches < 1672830413 107704 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the missing thing and behaves in silently incorrect ways, such as invisible icon or "search found no results" instead of "search couldn't connect to server", even when the resource later becomes reachable, unless you force-refresh < 1672830476 871405 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: yeah, I should probably make a separate for-work account, so that when used for work, youtube or google search doesn't suggest results based on personal searches when someone else can see my monitor < 1672830533 186897 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :google suggestions are to some extent helpful enough so as to not pressure you to do that, but still < 1672830936 705207 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh well, I generated an app password. Maybe that'll make me happier in the future. < 1672830952 762528 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :It always feel weird when you land on Wikipedia's mobile site (en.m.wikipedia.org for example) on a desktop browser, for example though a link somewhere else. Like, something's just... off. < 1672831041 685154 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :only 7 "security alerts" < 1672831050 919014 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :aka crying wolf < 1672831106 337777 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: yeah, for someone running a website there's always a tradeoff there. do you allow URLs to override the views (whether in a parameter or part of the path or host)? if yes, then people will share such links to others for which the view is wrong, like mobile view or wrong language etc. if no, then people are required to use cookies or https to < 1672831106 836991 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :set the view correctly, they can't use GET parameters as a fallback when they don't want to accept a cookie but want to change the view. neither choice is good. < 1672831165 570061 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh I see, I literally get every alert twice. < 1672831192 678586 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Once to the google mail account, and once to the linked email address. But the former is forwarded to the latter... < 1672831224 398792 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :At least Wikimedia doesn't have a choice, there are lots of custom reformatted mirrors of their sites so people can already link to one to force the wrong view. < 1672832962 783335 :bgs!~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net JOIN #esolangs bgs :bgs < 1672834932 574230 :linux!~linux@94-43-110-156.dsl.utg.ge JOIN #esolangs * :Live-CD User < 1672834970 214783 :linux!~linux@94-43-110-156.dsl.utg.ge NICK :IdfbAn < 1672835092 617504 :IdfbAn!~linux@94-43-110-156.dsl.utg.ge PART :#esolangs < 1672836954 558320 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :question. what's the first programming language where, in a function body, you don't need an explicit return statement to return the last expression (like in perl), but *only* if you don't put a semicolon after the expression, and if you put a semicolon then it's a void function (ignores the expression before the semicolon and returns some null < 1672836955 66259 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :value)? Mathematica and rust are like this, but perhaps there are earlier examples < 1672837069 608660 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think it stems from ML < 1672837088 471641 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :possibly older, but that already goes back a bit ig < 1672837199 766457 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :I know matlab does too, but that's basically concurrent with mathematica < 1672837251 903039 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't think matlab does it < 1672837272 828203 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :what matlab does is that a semicolon suppresses printing the result; a comma or no separator prints the result to the console, even inside a function < 1672837276 917120 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :ohh right < 1672837279 51749 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I could be wrong < 1672837288 80944 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah you're right, I misremembered < 1672837482 644144 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :python is funny about this: if you type for _c in range(10): 4; in the interactive console then the 4 and 5 both get printed 10 times, but this doesn't happen for statements inside a subroutine, only inside ifs/loops. matlab is worse because the values are printed even inside a function and even in non-interactive mode, so you need semicolons < 1672837483 143077 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :everywhere. we just don't notice that because we're C programmers so we're used to putting semicolons after every expression-statement. < 1672837495 870393 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'll look up how ML works, I don't recall this < 1672837541 493819 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :I remember matlab's behaviour being really frustrating when I had to use it for class < 1672837570 738506 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'd so often use it the wrong way around (use a semicolon when it would've been useful to have the result interactively, and then forget it when I don't < 1672837614 373163 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's hard because SML doesn't have an open language specification anywhere (worse than C and C++, whose official specs are sold for money only, but the final draft that's almost the same is public for free) < 1672837641 133946 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(organizations still need the spec that costs money so they can claim that they are compliant, but normal people don't) < 1672837675 821758 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but from what I can see so far I don't think Standard ML is like this < 1672838036 332653 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Firefly: I'm not sure, but from my web search it seems that in Standard ML you put semicolons after declarations, but not between expressions like a C comma operation. kind of like in Haskell, though in Haskell they separate a bit more than just declarations, but still not expressions except kind of in a do-block < 1672838120 275505 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :hm okay < 1672838124 772576 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :I misremember then < 1672838240 209509 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm,  https://people.mpi-sws.org/~rossberg/sml.html says you can put semicolons between expressions in SML, or in whatever dialect that describes, though even that seems to imply no trailing semicolon after an expression < 1672838262 267090 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://learnxinyminutes.com/docs/standard-ml/ same < 1672838373 33020 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, I guess I was thinking of the general idea of "sequence of semicolon-separated expressions and returning the last one" < 1672838389 692928 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :to my defense, the Olvashato compiler uses standard ML as an almost pure functional language (not quite as much as Haskell is, because I still used throw/catch), so it doesn't have a progn expression and doesn't need to emit C-like comma < 1672838392 643628 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :but that's slightly different from the thing of having semicolon at the end imply returning an empty value < 1672838434 616041 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :right, perl and more have just the implicit return in function bodies, the tricky part that I'm asking about is when the trailing semicolon suppresses that < 1672838467 858976 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :In Rust it does. < 1672838510 789744 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :The value of { 2 } is 2; the value of { 2; } is () < 1672838526 541546 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: yes, I started from "Mathematica and rust are like this" and am asking for examples earlier than rust, ideally earlier than Mathematica < 1672838546 377692 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm, Mathematica is ancient. < 1672838565 872570 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: yes it is, though I don't know how ancient the semicolon operator is but I suspect that's ancient too < 1672838568 109372 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Not Lisp-ancient, of course) < 1672838588 45809 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2022-12.html#lnP < 1672838605 857412 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I would like to see other examples older than rust even if they aren't older than Mathematica < 1672838636 92458 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: not Plankalkül-ancient < 1672838669 971133 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I kind of vaguely recalled Scala was like that, but at least on a cursory inspection it doesn't seem to do semicolons at all, and the value of a block is always the value of its last expression. < 1672838683 20121 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :gp's semicolon doesn't suppress the return value < 1672838683 615452 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm absolutely unfamiliar with Scala < 1672838695 727886 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: what "gp"? < 1672838700 748635 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :pari/gp < 1672838704 314099 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, pari/gp, right < 1672838763 739270 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(a truly offensive language actually because it's utterly whitespace-blind) < 1672838829 179953 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(so `co s(0)` evaluates to 1.0) < 1672838960 886077 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I know very little about PARI/GP toio < 1672838976 776424 :JAA!~JAA@user/jaa PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION gets flashbacks to FORTRAN.
< 1672838994 640801 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: why is that offensive? FORTRAN and some dialects of BASIC are like that too < 1672839010 113071 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :AX OR BX gets parsed as A XOR BX < 1672839075 389929 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, that is also offensive < 1672839095 865350 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :folklore is that FORTRAN syntax is bad because people didn't understand parsers and grammars yet and so couldn't design a good syntax, in particular asyntax that works with whitepace-blindness, properly, but I'm not sure if that's actually true or a story invented later < 1672839134 621514 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Some old software has excuses for that though, having to work with stringent resource constraints and all that. < 1672839183 169381 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you could design syntaxes where whitespace-blindness isn't a problem, eg. because you never put two letter-thingies or number-thingies next to each other, it just doesn't happen too often except in special-purpose languages < 1672839237 950431 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: they have an excuse for not requiring whitespace between A and XOR, so the source code can be compact; do they also have an excuse for misparsing AX OR with the space so the ROM can be compact too? < 1672839266 519303 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you might be right\ < 1672839279 81231 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :they have an excuse for not storing the whitespace in memory < 1672839312 485985 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: BASIC does store the whitespace if you type it\ < 1672839390 407411 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I mean the folklore also says that old languages don't have lexical scoped local variables, so let a = 4; function f() { return a; } function g() { let b = 5; return f(); } g() returns 5 instead of 4, because people didn't understand how to implement lexically local variables, but I think that's false and it's also because of resource constraints < 1672839414 370770 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm not convinced that they ever had an excuse for ignoring whitespace on input so that "AX OR BX gets parsed as A XOR BX" < 1672839417 800685 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION shrugs
< 1672839475 592392 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :not having a systematic approach to parsing is a plausible reason though I guess < 1672839569 10525 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Actually, looking at the lanugage reference, Scala *does* work like that, it's just one of those languages where the semicolons almost never get used because newlines mostly act as implied ones. < 1672839586 291182 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that reminds me of how Knuth goes into subroutine linking (where they'd patch the final branch in a function's implementation) that didn't support recursion < 1672839613 211089 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :"A block expression {s1; ……; sn; e} is constructed from a sequence of block statements s1,…,sn and a final expression e. -- The final expression can be omitted, in which case the unit value () is assumed." < 1672839626 337062 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: I think that's realistic on some old cpus that don't have built-in stack even for return addresses < 1672839644 746513 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Scala dates back to 2004, so older than Rust but not older than Mathematica. < 1672839650 853665 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Scala is a lot like SML < 1672839678 91879 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: it is < 1672839697 876679 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: and look, he only does that on MIX, and even of that he says its J register is quirky, MMIX has a modern recursive calling convention; though his full view we'll only find out in one of the next volumes < 1672839710 481455 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :self-modifying code was also a pretty good idea for a long time < 1672839742 140954 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(multi-threading? preemption? what are those?) < 1672839803 235194 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: TAOCP chapter 8 is about Recursion, so that'll tell more about that; though mind you, we already have an example with cooperative coroutines with the self-modifying calling convention in chapter 1, because even though it's coroutines switching contexts, no function is active more than once at the same time < 1672839896 739337 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: yep. and people even do preemptive interrupts and memory-safe operating system interrupts without a stack, where they just ensure that the interrupt routine doesn't get called inside an interrupt, see TAOCP chapter 1 for an example, or at least there are only a few (compile-time constant) levels of interrupts where an interrupt can only < 1672839897 237905 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :interrupt a lower-level interrupt < 1672839994 545039 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :incidentally, does anyone happen to have a plot of Knuth's estimated completion time of TAOCP volume 5, as shown on https://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/taocp.html#vol4 , as a function of time? it used to say 2020 but now it says 2025. < 1672840018 215731 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'll have to ask the wayback machine < 1672840133 291780 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Volume 5? Somehow I don't expect that to happen. < 1672840162 956929 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm hopeful but afraid < 1672840170 539642 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :s/afraid/scared/ < 1672840188 357060 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :When I started at my current employer (early 2015), the new office building they're building was supposed to be ready in four years. Now it's supposed to be ready in... two or three, I think. < 1672840244 981397 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: oh, I'm not talking about it being ready in 2025 < 1672840254 220985 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: me neither < 1672840335 322030 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm just looking at volume 4 and see a long road ahead just for that. And Knuth is not getting any younger. < 1672840610 529861 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: he is managing to remove distractions from TAOCP better than he used to. and volume 4B got published much quicker after 4A than 4A after 3 second edition, hasn't it? hmm, 11 years between 4A and 4B, so perhaps 4C in 2030 and 4D in 2040... yeah, that doesn't sound good unless the rest of 4 fits in 4C < 1672841153 261143 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I bisected, https://web.archive.org/web/20151110202229/http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu:80/~uno/taocp.html says "estimated to be ready in 2020", https://web.archive.org/web/20160106022059/http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu:80/~uno/taocp.html says "in 2025" about volume 5 < 1672841191 715079 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :let me see if there's a captured version that says earlier than 2020 < 1672841212 385254 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes there is, https://web.archive.org/web/20030501185133/http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~uno/taocp.html predicts 2010 < 1672841229 154544 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and https://web.archive.org/web/20021013094543/http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~uno/taocp.html predicts 2009 < 1672841250 936812 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :we should make the full plot from this < 1672841309 44420 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that earliest capture from 2002 also says "If all goes as planned, Volumes 4A, 4B, and 4C will be ready in the year 2007." < 1672843784 672381 :simcop2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1672843798 960623 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1672843894 703481 :simcop2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 JOIN #esolangs simcop2387 :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1672843985 401737 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot JOIN #esolangs perlbot :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1672845041 562971 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1672845702 130275 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas < 1672845900 404066 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I was wondering if the password or channel topic should mention something about how the ex-pope Benedict XVI died right before the end of the year, which sounds like the start of a horror movie about an undead apocalypse that starts (or is revealed to the protagonist) right at the chime of midnight when the year starts, and a prophecy is found < 1672845900 903847 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :about a ritual to banish the undead, but the ritual needs to be performed by two (or three) popes < 1672846284 869567 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :On an unrelated note, if a pope and an antipope ever meet, do they annihilate each other and emit a... bishop? Or something. < 1672846340 567454 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1672846710 133269 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas < 1672846763 756195 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: I heard the annihilition part, it's probably folklore, but I don't think the result can be a bishop < 1672846813 805262 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Antipope mentions the annihilation but in a clause that's crossed out < 1672846814 255896 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah, I'm not sure what the liturgical equivalent of a photon is. < 1672846839 696228 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :there's tim pope, is there also a tim antipope < 1672846991 243335 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname > 1672847422 207481 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Treee14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105917&oldid=105916 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+116) 10/* Miscellaneous */ Categories < 1672847720 805252 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm visualizing the ritual with three popes rather than two because of the Casey & Andy storyline from http://www.galactanet.com/comic/view.php?strip=461 where they urgently need to perform a ritual that needs three monarchs, but some people want to stop the ritual so they kidnap the queens of the three kingdoms unavailable, so now they quickly < 1672847721 296476 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :have to find three monarchs as replacements < 1672848086 104457 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and it's mostly Jules Verne's "Hector Servadac" that I'm thinking of for the apocalypse that happens exactly at the chime of midnight, especially the one at the middle of the book < 1672853693 329680 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1672855314 32658 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3+b3 - https://znc.in < 1672855314 32884 :simcop2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3+b3 - https://znc.in < 1672855479 377229 :simcop2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 JOIN #esolangs simcop2387 :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1672855570 129522 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot JOIN #esolangs perlbot :ZNC - https://znc.in > 1672862591 829276 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Angrylad 5* 10New user account > 1672862694 185229 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105918&oldid=105912 5* 03Angrylad 5* (+80) 10/* Introductions */ > 1672862738 533776 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105919&oldid=105918 5* 03Angrylad 5* (+30) 10/* Introductions */ > 1672863164 811904 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Angrylad14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105920 5* 03Angrylad 5* (+113) 10anrubfiankc > 1672863351 91164 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Angrylad14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105921 5* 03Angrylad 5* (+67) 10made it > 1672863371 26061 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Angrylad14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105922&oldid=105921 5* 03Angrylad 5* (-9) 10 > 1672863397 795155 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Angrylad14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105923&oldid=105922 5* 03Angrylad 5* (-2) 10 > 1672863409 108529 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Angrylad14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105924&oldid=105923 5* 03Angrylad 5* (-3) 10 > 1672863429 891616 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Angrylad14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105925&oldid=105924 5* 03Angrylad 5* (+5) 10 < 1672864242 111666 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :About views in URLs, I should think that what might be helpful (although I do not know how to actually implement such a thing) would be "data-oriented URLs" (which is not the same as the "data:" scheme), that you can specify what data is being accessed independently from any views, and also to be independent of e.g. Scryfall vs Gatherer, or NNTP vs HTTP, etc. < 1672865631 253458 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-183.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, unrelated question. you know how Python is shipped not only with bigints, but also with a library for rational numbers and one for decimal bigfloats, but not one for binary bigfloats? I just realized why that is. the main point isn't that the rational and bigdecimal libraries are useful directly. it's that python wants to harmonize hashing so that two numbers of always hash to the same hash if they < 1672865637 256095 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-183.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :are numerically equal even if they're different types, and they don't just want to document the spec for that, but also give you reference code that you can look up and compare your hash function to. that rationals and bigdecimals are weirder than bigfloats means you're more likely able to use them as examples for a hash function. < 1672865719 674564 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-183.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :of course you can still use external libraries that implement any of bigint, bigrat, bigfloat, bigdecimal, and complexes and more, there's enough operator overload and similar defined so that multiple libraries can implement them independently and with different performance characteristics > 1672868309 787111 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105926 5* 03Rehydratedmango 5* (+1733) 10just a thing i thought of > 1672868328 1320 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105927&oldid=105926 5* 03Rehydratedmango 5* (+0) 10 < 1672868351 100893 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :now that looks cursed < 1672868416 681570 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :the actual article title is "′" but I guess the bot might strip non-ascii from the reported title? < 1672868437 895343 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah, I should really fix that some day. < 1672868477 518609 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :The intent was to strip just control characters, but I think there was a mishap about signedness, and the <32 condition also stripped everything with a high bit set. < 1672868481 399211 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Or something along those lines. < 1672868496 146452 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :I was thinking for a moment it was an article named a zwsp or something < 1672868569 537153 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :`unidecode ′ < 1672868570 571331 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​[U+2032 PRIME] > 1672873089 318980 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Treee14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105928&oldid=105917 5* 03Rehydratedmango 5* (+18) 10Adding to category "2023" < 1672873109 265505 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1672873197 126539 :stazarzxy!~stazarzxy@cpe-98-14-155-39.nyc.res.rr.com JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] stazarzxy < 1672874524 34915 :stazarzxy!~stazarzxy@cpe-98-14-155-39.nyc.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Client closed