2023-01-01:

00:00:07 <b_jonas> Happy New Year to everyone with +0 timezone offset, in Portugal, UK, Ireland, Iceland etc.
00:15:44 <fizzie> Lotsa fireworks in London.
00:16:01 <fizzie> (Official ones.)
00:17:47 <b_jonas> there were lots of unofficial ones here
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04:42:47 <zzo38> On Linux, if I use the "date" command to tell it to display a date in the distant past, then it displays the time zone as "LMT"; what is "LMT"?
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04:58:14 <b_jonas> zzo38: check in the source code of tzdb, there are lots of comments in there 
05:06:28 <b_jonas> zzo38: https://data.iana.org/time-zones/theory.html#abbreviations specifically
05:14:54 <zzo38> O, it says "Use 'LMT' for local mean time of locations before the introduction of standard time" so I suppose that is what it is.
05:17:10 <zzo38> However, it lists multiple meanings for some abbreviations, which I think can be confusing.
05:31:40 <b_jonas> Happy New Year americans 
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08:28:58 <esolangs> [[Textile]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105875&oldid=105820 * Dtp09 * (+124) 
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10:08:28 <esolangs> [[Neural circlejerk]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105876 * Transoptimal * (+1274) Create neural circlejerk language page
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10:11:07 <esolangs> [[User:Transoptimal]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105877 * Transoptimal * (+133) Create transoptimal user page
10:12:14 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105878&oldid=105857 * Transoptimal * (+24) Add neural circlejerk to list
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15:38:00 <esolangs> [[OZZo]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105879&oldid=105677 * Fly * (-20) 
15:38:46 <esolangs> [[OZZo]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105880&oldid=105879 * Fly * (-12) 
15:40:40 <esolangs> [[MindFuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105881&oldid=105671 * Fly * (-4) 
15:57:40 <esolangs> [[OZZo]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105882&oldid=105880 * Fly * (-21) 
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17:35:38 <esolangs> [[OZZo]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105883&oldid=105882 * Fly * (+2266) 
17:40:03 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * MathIsAlwaysRight *  New user account
17:42:00 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105884&oldid=105873 * MathIsAlwaysRight * (+191) 
17:43:08 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105885&oldid=105884 * MathIsAlwaysRight * (+112) 
17:58:33 <esolangs> [[CLAG]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105886&oldid=94881 * QuarticSushi * (-110) /* CLAGy */
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21:35:05 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * RatCoffee *  New user account
21:44:05 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105887&oldid=105885 * RatCoffee * (+402) /* Introductions */
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23:52:47 <esolangs> [[OZZo]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105888&oldid=105883 * Fly * (+30) 

2023-01-02:

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02:17:32 <esolangs> [[BitQueue]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105889&oldid=105691 * DivergentClouds * (-4) fixed caption text
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05:54:31 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Maydolina *  New user account
05:59:19 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105890&oldid=105887 * Maydolina * (+225) /* Introductions */
06:02:41 <esolangs> [[User:Maydolina]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105891 * Maydolina * (+163) Created page with "i have no idea what to write here (skull emoji) but it is funny to have a page dedicated to me so I will find something  everything for the funny sincerely 1000101"
06:04:30 <esolangs> [[User:Maydolina]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105892&oldid=105891 * Maydolina * (+49) 
06:05:43 <esolangs> [[User:Maydolina]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105893&oldid=105892 * Maydolina * (-40) 
06:08:40 <esolangs> [[Whenever]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105894&oldid=104181 * Ricky42069 * (+131) 
06:09:19 <esolangs> [[Whenever]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105895&oldid=105894 * Ricky42069 * (+0) 
06:10:45 <zzo38> Now I made up a list of cards (all of which are listed in Scryfall) which are now legal in Extended-Pseudo-Vintage. A few require extra rules (that I have written), and one of them is only legal in puzzles and computer games.
06:40:11 <esolangs> [[Whenever]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105896&oldid=105895 * Ricky42069 * (+13) 
06:43:10 <esolangs> [[HQ9+]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105897&oldid=104634 * Earthrulerr * (+1047) /* Implementations */
06:43:49 <esolangs> [[User:Earthrulerr]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105898&oldid=105800 * Earthrulerr * (+30) /* Implementations: */
06:44:45 <esolangs> [[*]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105899&oldid=105838 * Earthrulerr * (+119) /* C++ */
06:49:18 <esolangs> [[Tech Support Scam]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105900&oldid=94732 * Earthrulerr * (+27) /* Example programs */
06:49:34 <esolangs> [[Tech Support Scam]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105901&oldid=105900 * Earthrulerr * (+0) /* Example programs */
06:51:22 <esolangs> [[User:Earthrulerr]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105902&oldid=105898 * Earthrulerr * (+130) /* Implementations: */
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16:44:25 <esolangs> [[UpDown]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105903&oldid=105870 * IdfbAn * (+322) Add UD++
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2023-01-03:

04:12:04 <zzo38> One way to make a bit interleaving in a JavaScript code is:  (x=>parseInt(x.toString(2),4))  (I don't know what is the way to do it with the big integer type, though)
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06:16:02 <Sgeo> Are there any game theory analyses of Ahyoheek/Ayoheek?
06:49:07 <zzo38> I don't know what is "Ahyoheek/Ayoheek"
07:06:56 <Sgeo> https://archive.guildofarchivists.org/wiki/Ahyoheek (it's pen beats page beats beetle, not sure why that's unclear on here)
07:07:21 <Sgeo> Sort of a rock/paper/scissors game except 2-5 player, and the goal is to win with one object 3 times
07:09:31 <Sgeo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr7Mwrb5vAE
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07:55:21 <zzo38> OK
08:59:02 <Sgeo> Suppose my opponent has two Pens. If they throw Pen and I throw Book, they win. So I should throw either Beetle or Pen, right? Random? Or should I still have a chance of throwing Book in case they try to go Beetle to catch me throwing Pen?
08:59:53 <Sgeo> And then in larger games there can be a prisoner's dilemma and tragedy of the commons, where people should block someone who might be about to win, but individuals might choose to throw whatever would beat that
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09:56:13 <int-e> odd that there aren't 5 objects :-P
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10:04:41 <wib_jonas> ``` datei # is it just me, or are you in the future too, HackEso?
10:04:43 <HackEso> 2023-01-03 10:04:42.369 +0000 UTC January 3 Tuesday 2023-W01-2
10:04:55 <wib_jonas> 2023. crazy.
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10:39:17 <int-e> Oh right, it's that time of the year again where I want to send an email from my gmail account and it has automatically re-re-re-re-re-enabled the setting that disallows so-called less secure apps from sending email.
10:41:17 <int-e> Err what now. "This setting is no longer available. Learn more"
10:42:01 <int-e> I have no words.
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10:46:17 <int-e> Whatever. It took me 7 months to notice the change. I guess I just won't bother.
10:52:38 <fizzie> I've never really understood why (a) "app passwords" are only available for accounts with two-factor auth turned on (as opposed to being an option for any account, instead of providing your actual password), and (b) why you can't set the same limited scopes for them that you can for actual OAuth clients.
10:52:40 <fizzie> Although I guess the most likely reason for (b) is that choosing the scopes is something only developers are expected to understand.
10:54:35 <int-e> Oh right, "app passwords" are a thing. They aren't even visible to me.
10:54:53 <fizzie> That'd be due to (a) most likely.
10:57:02 <int-e> And the OAuth crap requires a developer account in my context.
11:00:29 <int-e> fizzie: Right but you also said that you don't understand (a) :-)
11:00:57 <esolangs> [[Barely]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105904&oldid=65412 * Salpynx * (+4) correct capitalisation, and link
11:01:57 <int-e> And finally, where is your fucking logout button...
11:02:27 <int-e> (Apparently that's only an option for *other* sessions, not the "current" one.)
11:03:06 <int-e> Though I bet that there's still some well-hidden link that continues to work, but it's not advertised anywhere.
11:03:54 <wib_jonas> int-e: logout for what, the web interface or for an app using app password?
11:04:13 <int-e> the google account
11:04:42 <int-e> the web thing
11:05:00 <fizzie> There's a "Sign out" button in the account "disc" for me, at least.
11:05:17 <int-e> Hmm
11:05:29 <wib_jonas> int-e: top right round face/avatar picture in gmail, opens a menu, click "Sign out" in that
11:06:02 <int-e> Maybe I missed it. I did read the "Sign out of Gmail" help page though, and that sent me to the account/devices thing.
11:06:33 <int-e> Anyway. Sorry for the rant, this upsets me more than it should.
11:07:36 <int-e> 2FA may be the path of least resistance for me actually, since U2F is an option.
11:11:25 <int-e> Will app passwords even work the way I want though? Or does using an app password without being logged into the google account before trigger the whole 2FA process?
11:40:52 <fizzie> As far as I know, they work in the expected way -- as in, they're pretty much an exemption from 2FA. I used to use them for mutt and Thunderbird. But I've not used them for the last year or so. And given the same "less secure apps" vs. "more secure apps" phrasing in the help pages about app passwords, I wouldn't be incredibly surprised if they got the same deprecation too.
11:43:48 <fizzie> Coincidentally, I just got the December Search performance report for esolangs.org in my Gmail inbox.
11:43:59 <fizzie> It continues to be underwhelming.
11:44:25 <fizzie> "brainfuck" is still the top performing query, driving a total of 12 (!) clicks.
11:58:26 <wib_jonas> out of how many total clicks?
12:02:47 <fizzie> 95, I think.
12:02:58 <fizzie> That's over three a day.
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15:04:40 <esolangs> [[CTFuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105905&oldid=104693 * Pro465 * (-10) remove specification of bijective base 10
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15:43:20 <Melvar> Thought: an esolang that’s a concatenative language but the implicit data structure is a map/dict rather than a stack. All the builtins have hardcoded keys that they take their arguments and leave their results at. Primitive “push” commands include a key, e.g. `a:6` to set entry `a` to `6`. Currently pondering whether having a primitive for movement/reassignment is necessary or if a builtin
15:43:22 <Melvar> will work.
15:44:37 <Melvar> (If you need to tell a procedure to do something at a variable key, you need to pass the variable key as the value at a hardcoded key.)
15:49:26 <Melvar> Hmm. I guess to store lists, you do kind of need some ways to manipulate keys as values?
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17:09:18 <esolangs> [[Skim machine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105906&oldid=68223 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+177) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the Skim machine programming language on GitHub and changed the category tag Unimplemented to Implemented.
17:11:47 <esolangs> [[Skim machine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105907&oldid=105906 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+270) Added an examples section with an addition program as its incipient member.
17:16:50 <esolangs> [[Skim machine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105908&oldid=105907 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+1831) Added further information regarding the syntax.
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18:49:55 <b_jonas> `slashlearn password//The password of the month is non-(mint-flavored) dental floss.
18:49:58 <HackEso> Relearned 'password': The password of the month is non-(mint-flavored) dental floss.
19:19:13 <esolangs> [[Skim machine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105909&oldid=105908 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+585) Relocated the instruction pattern into the newly introduced command section.
20:44:45 <shachaf> Melvar: That sounds a lot like registers?
20:45:05 <shachaf> I guess the idea here is that you have an addressing mode for talking about registers dynamically, which is maybe less common.
20:45:35 <shachaf> I guess AVR or something has that?
20:45:54 <int-e> the more registers, the better the organ?
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22:30:25 <Melvar> shachaf: I suppose it does, but there’s an unbounded number of registers and operations can’t have something that looks like the arguments of an asm instruction, they just have to hardcode what registers their args are in.
22:33:56 <Melvar> Also, the closest thing to a pointer is to put a map key / register name into another register, at least that’s what I’m thinking at the moment.
22:36:44 <b_jonas> bwahahaha! spam email in HTML that has the text of a link starting with "https;//", presumably to work around antivirus or antispam measures that trigger on when the link text is an URL but very different from the target
22:37:30 <Melvar> Another way to look at it is that literally everything is a global variable and procedures just have to read globals for their inputs and write globals for their outputs.
22:37:45 <int-e> ARGH. Firefox does autocorrect that.
22:40:27 <Melvar> So basically it becomes a challenge of not clobbering something you still need while putting everything where the procedures you’re using expect it. I suppose getting anything done would devolve into figuring out how to implement a stack on top of this.
22:47:32 <b_jonas> Melvar: traditional BASIC and I think INTERCAL only have parameterless subroutine calls, so you generally use global variables to pass arguments. the same happens in machine-code programs on 6502 and other old processors because they don't have efficient stack-relative access, so it's easier to pass arguments in the null page or other fixed addresses, or in registers for processors with more registers.
22:48:54 <b_jonas> technically my scan esolang also doesn't have function parameters, but that's mostly an accident because it was just a toy experiment that I abandoned before I implemented function parameter passing
23:06:24 <Melvar> Interesting and good to know.

2023-01-04:

00:01:34 <b_jonas> though 6502 isn't quite a good example because it at least has instructions to push/pop registers to the stack to save them
00:02:05 <b_jonas> but even so it mostly uses registers
00:02:20 <b_jonas> effectively the 256 null page bytes work as the most easily accessible global registers
00:10:46 <b_jonas> these days we don't really do this, partly because current CPUs and languages support stack-relative access or other way to do local variables well, plus we don't want to code to break if a function is called twice at the same time from potential recursion or multithreading
00:11:20 <b_jonas> multithreading in the broad sense
00:11:32 <b_jonas> cooperative threads count too
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01:29:51 <esolangs> [[Skim machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105910&oldid=105909 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+1) Inserted a missing space following a comma (,) in the EBNF in order to promote consistency in the formatting.
02:39:09 <Sgeo> How do multi-stage games work in game theory?
02:39:27 <Sgeo> e.g. the players take an action, they see the results, then take more actions
02:39:53 <Sgeo> Which... I guess is most games more complicated than prisoner's dilemma or rock-paper-scissors
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06:43:49 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Octogeddonling *  New user account
06:53:53 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105911&oldid=105890 * Octogeddonling * (+128) /* Introductions */
06:55:02 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105912&oldid=105911 * Octogeddonling * (+30) Sorry i forgot to scan all of the informations above
07:01:50 <esolangs> [[Raplan]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105913 * Phao * (+7571) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=SYCPOL |paradigms=procedural, imperative |author=[[Phao|User:Phao]] |year=[[:Category:2023|2023]] |memsys=variable-based |dimensions=one-dimensional }} '''''WARNING:This file is formatted use markdown, so it have not styles in [[Main Page|esolangs.o
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07:47:26 <b_jonas> Sgeo: as in games that aren't complete information or have randomness?
07:50:08 <Sgeo> Which does a game like rock-paper-scissors count as?
07:53:05 <b_jonas> Sgeo: that's one with non-complete information, but games with randomness might best be regarded as a subset of games with non-complete information
07:53:18 <b_jonas> it's just that you might think of the latter as a special case of the former
07:56:08 <b_jonas> think, if you wish, of Scrabble or card games like contract bridge or Magic: the Gathering, which have both randomness and hidden information; and adversarial mastermind/hangman/wordle or twenty question where an opponent tries to choose a hard solution to guess, or Starcraft or Warcraft or Age of Empires as examples for games with hidden information (the word to be guessed or the state behind fog of 
07:56:14 <b_jonas> war if you wish)
07:57:27 <b_jonas> the randomness doesn't really add much new once you have hidden information, because random strategies naturally arise as the best often in games with hidden information
08:03:19 <b_jonas> whereas eg. go=baduk is a finite game with perfect information, no randomness, which means if the parties have unlimited computational power then it's not necessary to use random strategies, because in every state the outcome with both players playing best is predetermined
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08:47:25 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105914&oldid=105556 * Octogeddonling * (+100) /* General languages */
08:49:07 <esolangs> [[Treee]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105915 * Octogeddonling * (+2588) created
08:50:54 <esolangs> [[Treee]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105916&oldid=105915 * Octogeddonling * (+1) /* Grammar */
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10:55:03 <int-e> b_jonas: Oh I see, the avatar where googlemail has the sign out button is invisible to me.
10:55:32 <int-e> as a result of me blocking googleusercontent.com
10:57:16 <wib_jonas> int-e: oops, I don't think I've encountered that for google in particular, but I've seen that kind of nonsense in other webpages plenty of times. like in the in-house developed work time keeping web application in our previous job, where you could suddenly change your password iff your browser window is wide enough, because it has some kind of CSS
10:57:16 <wib_jonas> nonsense that helpfully hides some of the UI elements on normal sized windows so the rest would fit more easily
10:58:21 <wib_jonas> int-e: just to confirm, does the hidden avatar happen also in google search and google drive, or only google mail?
10:58:38 <wib_jonas> heck, or even youtube
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10:59:34 <wib_jonas> hmm, youtube might be different, at least I get a different avatar with just a letter in a circle because I have customized my displayed username on youtube
11:04:04 <int-e> wib_jonas: which is a me problem, but the UI doesn't even look like anything is missing in that corner: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/hidden_avatar.png
11:04:25 <int-e> (because they also put icons to the right
11:06:01 <int-e> wib_jonas: I don't know. The whole point of logging out is that there'll be no avatar in search or youtube
11:06:52 <wib_jonas> int-e: it's kind of an us problem, I use browser plugins in a way that invisibly break some webpages. though you can also blame web developers for it, because some of these webpages can also break in a way where if a script or other resources is missing, even if not because you block it with a plugin, but because of a network error, then it caches
11:06:53 <wib_jonas> the missing thing and behaves in silently incorrect ways, such as invisible icon or "search found no results" instead of "search couldn't connect to server", even when the resource later becomes reachable, unless you force-refresh
11:07:56 <wib_jonas> int-e: yeah, I should probably make a separate for-work account, so that when used for work, youtube or google search doesn't suggest results based on personal searches when someone else can see my monitor
11:08:53 <wib_jonas> google suggestions are to some extent helpful enough so as to not pressure you to do that, but still
11:15:36 <int-e> Oh well, I generated an app password. Maybe that'll make me happier in the future.
11:15:52 <fizzie> It always feel weird when you land on Wikipedia's mobile site (en.m.wikipedia.org for example) on a desktop browser, for example though a link somewhere else. Like, something's just... off.
11:17:21 <int-e> only 7 "security alerts"
11:17:30 <int-e> aka crying wolf
11:18:26 <wib_jonas> fizzie: yeah, for someone running a website there's always a tradeoff there. do you allow URLs to override the views (whether in a parameter or part of the path or host)? if yes, then people will share such links to others for which the view is wrong, like mobile view or wrong language etc. if no, then people are required to use cookies or https to
11:18:26 <wib_jonas> set the view correctly, they can't use GET parameters as a fallback when they don't want to accept a cookie but want to change the view. neither choice is good.
11:19:25 <int-e> Oh I see, I literally get every alert twice.
11:19:52 <int-e> Once to the google mail account, and once to the linked email address. But the former is forwarded to the latter...
11:20:24 <wib_jonas> At least Wikimedia doesn't have a choice, there are lots of custom reformatted mirrors of their sites so people can already link to one to force the wrong view.
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12:55:54 <wib_jonas> question. what's the first programming language where, in a function body, you don't need an explicit return statement to return the last expression (like in perl), but *only* if you don't put a semicolon after the expression, and if you put a semicolon then it's a void function (ignores the expression before the semicolon and returns some null
12:55:55 <wib_jonas> value)? Mathematica and rust are like this, but perhaps there are earlier examples
12:57:49 <FireFly> I think it stems from ML
12:58:08 <FireFly> possibly older, but that already goes back a bit ig
12:59:59 <FireFly> I know matlab does too, but that's basically concurrent with mathematica
13:00:51 <wib_jonas> I don't think matlab does it
13:01:12 <wib_jonas> what matlab does is that a semicolon suppresses printing the result; a comma or no separator prints the result to the console, even inside a function
13:01:16 <FireFly> ohh right
13:01:19 <wib_jonas> but I could be wrong
13:01:28 <FireFly> yeah you're right, I misremembered
13:04:42 <wib_jonas> python is funny about this: if you type for _c in range(10): 4; in the interactive console then the 4 and 5 both get printed 10 times, but this doesn't happen for statements inside a subroutine, only inside ifs/loops. matlab is worse because the values are printed even inside a function and even in non-interactive mode, so you need semicolons
13:04:43 <wib_jonas> everywhere. we just don't notice that because we're C programmers so we're used to putting semicolons after every expression-statement.
13:04:55 <wib_jonas> I'll look up how ML works, I don't recall this
13:05:41 <FireFly> I remember matlab's behaviour being really frustrating when I had to use it for class
13:06:10 <FireFly> I'd so often use it the wrong way around (use a semicolon when it would've been useful to have the result interactively, and then forget it when I don't
13:06:54 <wib_jonas> it's hard because SML doesn't have an open language specification anywhere (worse than C and C++, whose official specs are sold for money only, but the final draft that's almost the same is public for free)
13:07:21 <wib_jonas> (organizations still need the spec that costs money so they can claim that they are compliant, but normal people don't)
13:07:55 <wib_jonas> but from what I can see so far I don't think Standard ML is like this
13:13:56 <wib_jonas> Firefly: I'm not sure, but from my web search it seems that in Standard ML you put semicolons after declarations, but not between expressions like a C comma operation. kind of like in Haskell, though in Haskell they separate a bit more than just declarations, but still not expressions except kind of in a do-block
13:15:20 <FireFly> hm okay
13:15:24 <FireFly> I misremember then
13:17:20 <wib_jonas> hmm,  https://people.mpi-sws.org/~rossberg/sml.html says you can put semicolons between expressions in SML, or in whatever dialect that describes, though even that seems to imply no trailing semicolon after an expression
13:17:42 <wib_jonas> https://learnxinyminutes.com/docs/standard-ml/ same
13:19:33 <FireFly> yeah, I guess I was thinking of the general idea of "sequence of semicolon-separated expressions and returning the last one"
13:19:49 <wib_jonas> to my defense, the Olvashato compiler uses standard ML as an almost pure functional language (not quite as much as Haskell is, because I still used throw/catch), so it doesn't have a progn expression and doesn't need to emit C-like comma
13:19:52 <FireFly> but that's slightly different from the thing of having semicolon at the end imply returning an empty value
13:20:34 <wib_jonas> right, perl and more have just the implicit return in function bodies, the tricky part that I'm asking about is when the trailing semicolon suppresses that
13:21:07 <int-e> In Rust it does.
13:21:50 <int-e> The value of { 2 } is 2; the value of { 2; } is ()
13:22:06 <wib_jonas> int-e: yes, I started from "Mathematica and rust are like this" and am asking for examples earlier than rust, ideally earlier than Mathematica
13:22:26 <int-e> Hmm, Mathematica is ancient.
13:22:45 <wib_jonas> int-e: yes it is, though I don't know how ancient the semicolon operator is but I suspect that's ancient too
13:22:48 <int-e> (Not Lisp-ancient, of course)
13:23:08 <wib_jonas> https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2022-12.html#lnP
13:23:25 <wib_jonas> but I would like to see other examples older than rust even if they aren't older than Mathematica
13:23:56 <wib_jonas> int-e: not Plankalkül-ancient
13:24:29 <fizzie> I kind of vaguely recalled Scala was like that, but at least on a cursory inspection it doesn't seem to do semicolons at all, and the value of a block is always the value of its last expression.
13:24:43 <int-e> gp's semicolon doesn't suppress the return value
13:24:43 <wib_jonas> I'm absolutely unfamiliar with Scala
13:24:55 <wib_jonas> int-e: what "gp"?
13:25:00 <int-e> pari/gp
13:25:04 <wib_jonas> oh, pari/gp, right
13:26:03 <int-e> (a truly offensive language actually because it's utterly whitespace-blind)
13:27:09 <int-e> (so `co s(0)` evaluates to 1.0)
13:29:20 <wib_jonas> I know very little about PARI/GP toio
13:29:36 * JAA gets flashbacks to FORTRAN.
13:29:54 <wib_jonas> int-e: why is that offensive? FORTRAN and some dialects of BASIC are like that too
13:30:10 <wib_jonas> AX OR BX gets parsed as A XOR BX
13:31:15 <int-e> well, that is also offensive
13:31:35 <wib_jonas> folklore is that FORTRAN syntax is bad because people didn't understand parsers and grammars yet and so couldn't design a good syntax, in particular asyntax that works with whitepace-blindness, properly, but I'm not sure if that's actually true or a story invented later
13:32:14 <int-e> Some old software has excuses for that though, having to work with stringent resource constraints and all that.
13:33:03 <wib_jonas> you could design syntaxes where whitespace-blindness isn't a problem, eg. because you never put two letter-thingies or number-thingies next to each other, it just doesn't happen too often except in special-purpose languages
13:33:57 <wib_jonas> int-e: they have an excuse for not requiring whitespace between A and XOR, so the source code can be compact; do they also have an excuse for misparsing AX OR with the space so the ROM can be compact too?
13:34:26 <wib_jonas> you might be right\
13:34:39 <int-e> they  have an excuse for not storing the whitespace in memory
13:35:12 <wib_jonas> int-e: BASIC does store the whitespace if you type it\
13:36:30 <wib_jonas> I mean the folklore also says that old languages don't have lexical scoped local variables, so let a = 4; function f() { return a; } function g() { let b = 5; return f(); } g() returns 5 instead of 4, because people didn't understand how to implement lexically local variables, but I think that's false and it's also because of resource constraints
13:36:54 <int-e> I'm not convinced that they ever had an excuse for ignoring whitespace on input so that "AX OR BX gets parsed as A XOR BX"
13:36:57 * int-e shrugs
13:37:55 <int-e> not having a systematic approach to parsing is a plausible reason though I guess
13:39:29 <fizzie> Actually, looking at the lanugage reference, Scala *does* work like that, it's just one of those languages where the semicolons almost never get used because newlines mostly act as implied ones.
13:39:46 <int-e> that reminds me of how Knuth goes into subroutine linking (where they'd patch the final branch in a function's implementation) that didn't support recursion
13:40:13 <fizzie> "A block expression {s1; ……; sn; e} is constructed from a sequence of block statements s1,…,sn and a final expression e. -- The final expression can be omitted, in which case the unit value () is assumed."
13:40:26 <wib_jonas> int-e: I think that's realistic on some old cpus that don't have built-in stack even for return addresses
13:40:44 <fizzie> Scala dates back to 2004, so older than Rust but not older than Mathematica.
13:40:50 <int-e> Scala is a lot like SML
13:41:18 <int-e> wib_jonas: it is
13:41:37 <wib_jonas> int-e: and look, he only does that on MIX, and even of that he says its J register is quirky, MMIX has a modern recursive calling convention; though his full view we'll only find out in one of the next volumes
13:41:50 <int-e> self-modifying code was also a pretty good idea for a long time
13:42:22 <int-e> (multi-threading? preemption? what are those?)
13:43:23 <wib_jonas> int-e: TAOCP chapter 8 is about Recursion, so that'll tell more about that; though mind you, we already have an example with cooperative coroutines with the self-modifying calling convention in chapter 1, because even though it's coroutines switching contexts, no function is active more than once at the same time
13:44:56 <wib_jonas> int-e: yep. and people even do preemptive interrupts and memory-safe operating system interrupts without a stack, where they just ensure that the interrupt routine doesn't get called inside an interrupt, see TAOCP chapter 1 for an example, or at least there are only a few (compile-time constant) levels of interrupts where an interrupt can only
13:44:57 <wib_jonas> interrupt a lower-level interrupt
13:46:34 <wib_jonas> incidentally, does anyone happen to have a plot of Knuth's estimated completion time of TAOCP volume 5, as shown on https://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/taocp.html#vol4 , as a function of time? it used to say 2020 but now it says 2025.
13:46:58 <wib_jonas> I'll have to ask the wayback machine
13:48:53 <int-e> Volume 5? Somehow I don't expect that to happen.
13:49:22 <wib_jonas> I'm hopeful but afraid
13:49:30 <wib_jonas> s/afraid/scared/
13:49:48 <fizzie> When I started at my current employer (early 2015), the new office building they're building was supposed to be ready in four years. Now it's supposed to be ready in... two or three, I think.
13:50:44 <wib_jonas> int-e: oh, I'm not talking about it being ready in 2025
13:50:54 <int-e> wib_jonas: me neither
13:52:15 <int-e> I'm just looking at volume 4 and see a long road ahead just for that. And Knuth is not getting any younger.
13:56:50 <wib_jonas> int-e: he is managing to remove distractions from TAOCP better than he used to. and volume 4B got published much quicker after 4A than 4A after 3 second edition, hasn't it? hmm, 11 years between 4A and 4B, so perhaps 4C in 2030 and 4D in 2040... yeah, that doesn't sound good unless the rest of 4 fits in 4C
14:05:53 <wib_jonas> I bisected, https://web.archive.org/web/20151110202229/http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu:80/~uno/taocp.html says "estimated to be ready in 2020", https://web.archive.org/web/20160106022059/http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu:80/~uno/taocp.html says "in 2025" about volume 5
14:06:31 <wib_jonas> let me see if there's a captured version that says earlier than 2020
14:06:52 <wib_jonas> yes there is, https://web.archive.org/web/20030501185133/http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~uno/taocp.html predicts 2010
14:07:09 <wib_jonas> and https://web.archive.org/web/20021013094543/http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~uno/taocp.html predicts 2009
14:07:30 <wib_jonas> we should make the full plot from this
14:08:29 <wib_jonas> that earliest capture from 2002 also says "If all goes as planned, Volumes 4A, 4B, and 4C will be ready in the year 2007."
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15:25:00 <wib_jonas> I was wondering if the password or channel topic should mention something about how the ex-pope Benedict XVI died right before the end of the year, which sounds like the start of a horror movie about an undead apocalypse that starts (or is revealed to the protagonist) right at the chime of midnight when the year starts, and a prophecy is found
15:25:00 <wib_jonas> about a ritual to banish the undead, but the ritual needs to be performed by two (or three) popes
15:31:24 <fizzie> On an unrelated note, if a pope and an antipope ever meet, do they annihilate each other and emit a... bishop? Or something.
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15:39:23 <wib_jonas> fizzie: I heard the annihilition part, it's probably folklore, but I don't think the result can be a bishop
15:40:13 <wib_jonas> https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Antipope mentions the annihilation but in a clause that's crossed out
15:40:14 <fizzie> Yeah, I'm not sure what the liturgical equivalent of a photon is.
15:40:39 <FireFly> there's tim pope, is there also a tim antipope
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15:55:20 <wib_jonas> I'm visualizing the ritual with three popes rather than two because of the Casey & Andy storyline from http://www.galactanet.com/comic/view.php?strip=461 where they urgently need to perform a ritual that needs three monarchs, but some people want to stop the ritual so they kidnap the queens of the three kingdoms unavailable, so now they quickly
15:55:21 <wib_jonas> have to find three monarchs as replacements
16:01:26 <wib_jonas> and it's mostly Jules Verne's "Hector Servadac" that I'm thinking of for the apocalypse that happens exactly at the chime of midnight, especially the one at the middle of the book
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20:03:11 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Angrylad *  New user account
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20:05:38 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105919&oldid=105918 * Angrylad * (+30) /* Introductions */
20:12:44 <esolangs> [[User:Angrylad]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105920 * Angrylad * (+113) anrubfiankc
20:15:51 <esolangs> [[User talk:Angrylad]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105921 * Angrylad * (+67) made it
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20:17:09 <esolangs> [[User talk:Angrylad]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105925&oldid=105924 * Angrylad * (+5) 
20:30:42 <zzo38> About views in URLs, I should think that what might be helpful (although I do not know how to actually implement such a thing) would be "data-oriented URLs" (which is not the same as the "data:" scheme), that you can specify what data is being accessed independently from any views, and also to be independent of e.g. Scryfall vs Gatherer, or NNTP vs HTTP, etc.
20:53:51 <b_jonas> oh, unrelated question. you know how Python is shipped not only with bigints, but also with a library for rational numbers and one for decimal bigfloats, but not one for binary bigfloats? I just realized why that is. the main point isn't that the rational and bigdecimal libraries are useful directly. it's that python wants to harmonize hashing so that two numbers of always hash to the same hash if they 
20:53:57 <b_jonas> are numerically equal even if they're different types, and they don't just want to document the spec for that, but also give you reference code that you can look up and compare your hash function to. that rationals and bigdecimals are weirder than bigfloats means you're more likely able to use them as examples for a hash function.
20:55:19 <b_jonas> of course you can still use external libraries that implement any of bigint, bigrat, bigfloat, bigdecimal, and complexes and more, there's enough operator overload and similar defined so that multiple libraries can implement them independently and with different performance characteristics
21:38:29 <esolangs> [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105926 * Rehydratedmango * (+1733) just a thing i thought of
21:38:48 <esolangs> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105927&oldid=105926 * Rehydratedmango * (+0) 
21:39:11 <FireFly> now that looks cursed
21:40:16 <FireFly> the actual article title is "′" but I guess the bot might strip non-ascii from the reported title?
21:40:37 <fizzie> Yeah, I should really fix that some day.
21:41:17 <fizzie> The intent was to strip just control characters, but I think there was a mishap about signedness, and the <32 condition also stripped everything with a high bit set.
21:41:21 <fizzie> Or something along those lines.
21:41:36 <FireFly> I was thinking for a moment it was an article named a zwsp or something
21:42:49 <fizzie> `unidecode ′
21:42:50 <HackEso> ​[U+2032 PRIME]
22:58:09 <esolangs> [[Treee]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105928&oldid=105917 * Rehydratedmango * (+18) Adding to category "2023"
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2023-01-05:

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02:27:48 <b_jonas> the robot in today's xkcd sounds very much like it just stepped out of smbc. the two comics have very similar themes but different recurring characters.
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06:38:14 <zzo38> What program can be used to decode the data in TrueType files, including the character encoding (allowing any encoding, e.g. not limited to Unicode, or to any other defined set of encodings)?
06:44:11 <zzo38> I can write one if there is not already such a thing, but I wanted to see if there is one
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07:21:21 <zzo38> O, I found that the program "ttfdump" can be used. However, I think they misspelled "EncodingID" in the output?
07:51:04 <zzo38> I have a file containing something like this:  http://sprunge.us/TZmT3H  It seems similar to TrueType but different, e.g. the names of the tables do not seem to be in a font directory format with sixteen bytes each.
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08:49:37 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * Username1234 *  uploaded "[[File:010C+3C+2dC.png]]": The correct title of 010C+3C+2dC.
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12:21:56 <esolangs> [[010C+3C+2dC]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105943 * Username1234 * (+108) Created page with "{{WIP}}  {{wrongtitle|title=[[File:010C+3C+2dC.png|150px]]}}  (C+3C+2)dC"
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13:41:00 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105944&oldid=105004 * Orisphera * (+128) 
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15:16:58 <esolangs> [[USERA]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105945&oldid=78891 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+188) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the User:A (USERA) programming language on GitHub and added the category tag Implemented.
15:17:40 <esolangs> [[USERA]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105946&oldid=105945 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+0) Slightly improved the formatting of the command table.
15:19:49 <esolangs> [[USERA]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105947&oldid=105946 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+215) Added a second Hello, World! example which relies on the addition and subtraction instructions.
15:23:00 <esolangs> [[USERA]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105948&oldid=105947 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+284) Added an apostil to the Common Lisp interpreter anenst its limitations in clearing the display.
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16:35:18 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105949&oldid=105944 * Orisphera * (+163) /* Ideas for Names */
16:38:41 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105950&oldid=105949 * Orisphera * (+56) /* Joke/Silly Ideas */
16:53:41 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * FractalDiane *  New user account
16:58:01 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105951&oldid=105919 * FractalDiane * (+214) 
17:01:34 <esolangs> [[User talk:Angrylad]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105952&oldid=105925 * Angrylad * (+221) /* Fun Codes */ new section
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17:02:36 <esolangs> [[User talk:Angrylad]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105953&oldid=105952 * Angrylad * (+20) made codes bolded
17:34:45 <esolangs> [[AntiDupCall]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105954 * Orisphera * (+1536) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=AntiDupCall |paradigms=imperative |author=[[User:Orisphera]] |year=[[:Category:2023:2023]] |memsys=[[:Category:Stack-based|Stack-based]] |dimensions=one-dimensional |class=[[:Category:Turing complete|Turing complete]] }}  '''AntiDupCall'''
17:55:02 <esolangs> [[UpDown]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105955&oldid=105903 * IdfbAn * (+173) Add example to UD++ section
19:51:45 <esolangs> [[THROBOL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105956&oldid=104694 * BoundedBeans * (+0) Fixed another mistake in proof
19:54:28 <esolangs> [[THROBOL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105957&oldid=105956 * BoundedBeans * (+0) Revert - it actually was fine
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21:12:12 <esolangs> [[Talk:THROBOL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105958 * BoundedBeans * (+289) Created page with "The computational class is in jeopardy because dequeuing enqueues 0 2 as well. I'm not exactly sure how to fix this, but it would likely involve ignoring 0 2 and dequeuing it when encountered. ~~~~"
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21:56:06 <esolangs> [[User:Rehydratedmango]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105959&oldid=105477 * Rehydratedmango * (+12) Adding 
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2023-01-06:

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05:56:05 <zzo38> If there are any things in Magic: the Gathering which are still unclear even with my changed rules (see http://www.magicmultiverse.net/cardsets/4009/details_pages/3275 for the most recent version), please mention what it is and suggest what changes to be made to correct those problems. This is also true if there are other problems with the rules that are no good in some other way.
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07:42:03 <esolangs> [[TapeRun]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105960 * Asra * (+3136) Add the language
07:43:37 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105961&oldid=105935 * Asra * (+14) Add language to list
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12:10:27 <esolangs> [[5iasm]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105962 * Xyzzy * (+925) Created page with "{{Stub}} {{WIP}} '''5iasm''' stands for "'''5''' '''I'''nstruction '''AS'''se'''M'''bly language". Like the name suggests, it has 5 commands. {| class="wikitable sortable" |+ Caption text |- ! Mnemonic !! Meaning !! What it does |- | <code>inc [register]</code> || INCrement 
12:16:37 <esolangs> [[5iasm]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105963&oldid=105962 * Xyzzy * (+388) 
12:25:04 <esolangs> [[5iasm]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105964&oldid=105963 * Xyzzy * (+951) 
12:45:21 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * UniqueName12345 *  New user account
12:46:18 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105965&oldid=105951 * UniqueName12345 * (+105) 
12:55:09 <esolangs> [[User:Orisphera/Completeness]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105966 * Orisphera * (+5551) Created page with "[[User:Orisphera]] finds the definitions for [[Turing completeness]] that they've found vague. This page shows the definition that they think best matches the examples they've found and some other definitions.  ==What is a programming language?== O
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15:17:09 <esolangs> [[Flasmi]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105967 * Orisphera * (+6060) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Flasmi |paradigms=imperative |author=[[User:Orisphera]] |year=[[:Category:2022|2022]] |class=[[:Category:Turing-complete|Turing-complete]] }} '''Flasmi''' is a language where each command operates on the commands right after it. It doesn't have
15:19:45 <esolangs> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105968&oldid=105961 * Orisphera * (+13) /* F */
15:25:00 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105969&oldid=105950 * Orisphera * (+12) /* Ideas for Names */
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16:10:43 <esolangs> [[Talk:ALWCIDFEC]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105970&oldid=103015 * PkmnQ * (+185) /* Computational class */
16:22:52 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105971&oldid=105969 * Orisphera * (+365) /* Ideas for Names */
16:24:24 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105972&oldid=105971 * Orisphera * (-69) /* Ideas for Names */
16:37:39 <esolangs> [[User:Angrylad]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105973&oldid=105920 * Angrylad * (+114) 
16:40:12 <esolangs> [[User:Angrylad]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105974&oldid=105973 * Angrylad * (+125) codes
16:48:06 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105975&oldid=105972 * Orisphera * (+1) /* Ideas for Names */
16:57:39 <esolangs> [[AnruBfiankc]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105976 * Angrylad * (+919) created it.
17:01:51 <esolangs> [[AnruBfiankc]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105977&oldid=105976 * Angrylad * (-32) 
17:03:14 <esolangs> [[User talk:Angrylad]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105978&oldid=105953 * Angrylad * (-41) 
17:03:55 <esolangs> [[User:Angrylad]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105979&oldid=105974 * Angrylad * (+87) signatur
17:08:52 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105980&oldid=105968 * Angrylad * (+18) added anruBfiankc
17:10:41 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105981&oldid=105980 * Angrylad * (+0) grammatical edit
17:10:41 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105982&oldid=105975 * Orisphera * (+167) /* Looks Like */
17:11:44 <esolangs> [[AnruBfiankc]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105983&oldid=105977 * Angrylad * (-1) grammatical edit
17:18:25 <esolangs> [[Flasmi]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105984&oldid=105967 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+75) /* Trivia */ Categories
17:19:01 <esolangs> [[Flasmi]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105985&oldid=105984 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-26) Fix link
17:20:41 <esolangs> [[Turing-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105986&oldid=98783 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+32) /* See also */ Link to relevant category
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18:11:50 <esolangs> [[Talk:Sadako]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105987 * Olive * (+418) /* Truth-Machine wrong? */ new section
18:16:37 <esolangs> [[Talk:Sadako]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105988&oldid=105987 * Olive * (+78) /* Truth-Machine wrong? */ forgot signature
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2023-01-07:

06:21:33 <esolangs> [[Textile/brainfuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105989&oldid=105818 * Dtp09 * (+0) fixed an oversight where input would start reading at 255 characters max and then start reading input from the beginning of the source
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12:39:39 <esolangs> [[AntiDupCall]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105990&oldid=105954 * Orisphera * (-21) 
12:43:35 <esolangs> [[Ting Vit]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105991&oldid=105649 * Xyzzy * (+35) 
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16:19:28 <esolangs> [[Self-modifying BrianPh*ck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105992 * Orisphera * (+1708) Created page with "{{infobox proglang |name=Self-modifying BrianPh*ck |paradigms=imperative |author=[[User:Orisphera]] |year=[[:Category:2023:2023]] |dimensions=one-dimensional }}  '''Self-modifying BrianPh*ck''' is a joke language by [[User:Orisphera]].  ==Commands== 
16:26:14 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105993&oldid=105940 * Orisphera * (+32) /* Brainfuck derivatives */
16:39:29 <esolangs> [[Talk:Unhappy]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105994 * Orisphera * (+159) Created page with "== Cat program? == It seems like the example is actually a cat program. ~~~~"
16:40:22 <esolangs> [[Self-modifying BrianPh*ck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105995&oldid=105992 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+87) Categories
16:40:52 <esolangs> [[Self-modifying BrianPh*ck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105996&oldid=105995 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+28) /* Examples */ Category
17:19:29 <int-e> `"
17:19:31 <HackEso> 1/1:1268) <prooftechnique> I mean, that's just the bare function. You throw some concurrency primitives in there and you're off to the races \ 1210) <Dulnes> Anyways i actually do have food in my house and this time its not coffee based
17:21:41 <FireFly> `'
17:21:42 <HackEso> 252) <elliott> ais523: quick, say something funny  <oklopol> something funny hagrea:D  <oklopol> can'tä sopt laughitn
17:25:29 <esolangs> [[Self-modifying BrianPh*ck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105997&oldid=105996 * Orisphera * (+0) 
17:27:25 <esolangs> [[Self-modifying BrianPh*ck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=105998&oldid=105997 * Orisphera * (-5) 
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19:17:53 <esolangs> [[Post-Unified HQ9+]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=105999 * Orisphera * (+7501) Created page with "'''Post-Unified HQ9+''', or alternatively, '''HQ9+++-*TCIX13BG2DidcoshwNZLEAR7UJ<>_()[]{}0.,&~:#''', is a language made by [[User:Orisphera]] to extend [[Unified HQ9+]], a language made by [[User:Cortex]] to unify all HQ9+ variants. It includes all the comma
19:18:39 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106000&oldid=105993 * Orisphera * (+24) /* Example-based languages */
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21:46:24 <esolangs> [[Treee]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106001&oldid=105928 * Octogeddonling * (+319) 
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2023-01-08:

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04:13:27 <esolangs> [[Numbers]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106002&oldid=91219 * Xorol * (+28) 
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11:40:39 <esolangs> [[Dragostea din tei]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106003&oldid=102804 * Leomok2009 * (+0) Fixed mistake
12:32:41 <esolangs> [[CTFuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106004&oldid=105905 * Pro465 * (+94) /* Commands */
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12:53:50 <esolangs> [[010C+3C+2dC]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106005&oldid=105943 * Username1234 * (+2300) 
12:58:33 <esolangs> [[User:Username1234]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106006&oldid=105941 * Username1234 * (+42) /* Non-Alphabet */
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13:52:00 <esolangs> [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106007&oldid=97017 * Xyzzy * (+554) 
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15:35:53 <int-e> > let step (n,n',a,b,c) = (n+1,n'+2,(a+b)*n',b*n,c*n'); go = go' . step . step; go' (n,n',a,b,c) = (a `div` c `mod` 2) : go (n,n',2*a,2*b,c) in go (1,3,0,1,1) >>= show
15:35:55 <lambdabot>  "110010010000111111011010101000100010000101101000110000100011010011000100110...
15:47:16 <int-e> (*probably* pi in binary)
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02:42:51 <esolangs> [[User:UniqueName12345]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106008 * UniqueName12345 * (+128) Created page with "Hello! I am the person who makes a lot of hypothetical esolangs, like [[DATES]] (Date-dependent Automated Task Execution System)"
02:43:12 <esolangs> [[User:UniqueName12345]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106009&oldid=106008 * UniqueName12345 * (-9) 
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05:58:06 <esolangs> [[Treee]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106010&oldid=106001 * Octogeddonling * (-41) 
06:10:27 <orin> does the signal handler itself have a redzone?
06:11:49 <orin> what suppose to happen if I call functiosn by sending myself signals
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06:27:14 <esolangs> [[Treee]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106011&oldid=106010 * Octogeddonling * (+0) the new version is too bad to be taken care of so I don't know how to at least check its turing complete
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12:33:02 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Tentacle Therapist *  New user account
12:47:34 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106012&oldid=105965 * Tentacle Therapist * (+315) 
12:48:01 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106013&oldid=106012 * Tentacle Therapist * (+115) 
13:05:45 <esolangs> [[ACCUMULATOR]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106014&oldid=105669 * UndoneStudios * (+4) The link was leading to 404 because UndoneStudios changed it
13:39:04 <esolangs> [[C = theNextIntegerThatComesAfterAnotherIntegerWithTheValueOf(c)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106015&oldid=83120 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+23) Category
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14:31:18 <int-e> fungot: is div a c not true?
14:31:18 <fungot> int-e: http://www.emacswiki.org/ cgi-bin/ fnord :) ( sorry, just asking
14:32:54 <int-e> (context: https://github.com/tromp/AIT/blob/9a476928cea0d2121c701881369abd477889ffdc/mpi.lam#L37 )
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14:55:12 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106016&oldid=105982 * Orisphera * (+137) /* General Ideas */
15:06:16 <esolangs> [[O o]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106017&oldid=103152 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+256) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the O_o machine programming language on GitHub and changed the category tag Unimplemented to Implemented.
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15:17:00 <int-e> `? hyperlink
15:17:05 <HackEso> hyperlink? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
15:17:27 <int-e> (nothing wrong with the term, except that it feels anachronistic)
15:21:16 <fizzie> For some reason "hypertext" feels more dated than "hyperlink" to me.
15:21:42 <esolangs> [[O o]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106018&oldid=106017 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+364) Replaced the Hello world example program, which was inflicted with a supernumerary back (]) instruction and thus invalid, by a working version.
15:21:56 <int-e> fizzie: oh defintely
15:22:03 <fizzie> `` wn hyperlink -over | grep -- --
15:22:04 <HackEso> 1. hyperlink -- (a link from a hypertext file to another location or file; typically activated by clicking on a highlighted word or icon at a particular location on the screen)
15:22:16 <int-e> unless you're in the habit of spelling out HTTP I guess.
15:22:27 <int-e> @wn hyperlink
15:22:28 <lambdabot> *** "hyperlink" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
15:22:28 <lambdabot> hyperlink
15:22:28 <lambdabot>     n 1: a link from a hypertext file to another location or file;
15:22:28 <lambdabot>          typically activated by clicking on a highlighted word or
15:22:28 <lambdabot>          icon at a particular location on the screen
15:22:40 <fizzie> I like longer lines.
15:22:53 <int-e> fizzie: I was checking whether that command still worked
15:23:06 <int-e> lambdabot has some corners that have bitrotted
15:23:24 <fizzie> Doing it on HackEso was mostly an excuse to use `grep -- --`, which looks funny.
15:23:36 <int-e> ah
15:23:58 <int-e> I also prefer the HackEso output here
15:27:11 <esolangs> [[O o]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106019&oldid=106018 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+334) Reformatted the encoding listing.
15:29:51 <esolangs> [[O o]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106020&oldid=106019 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+125) Reformatted the I* (stack) operations.
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15:39:18 <wib_jonas> I'd recommend (grep -e --) instead, but sure
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23:43:37 <esolangs> [[LispSpace]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106021&oldid=100636 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+23) Category

2023-01-10:

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00:34:57 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Mujk *  New user account
00:41:11 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106022&oldid=106013 * Mujk * (+96) /* Introductions */
01:01:38 <esolangs> [[User:Mujk]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106023 * Mujk * (+160) Created page with "Hi  == my languages == * [[trainfck]]  == my interpreters and compilers == * [https://github.com/Mujk/trainfck trainfck] -> a trainfck interpreter written in Go"
01:10:15 <esolangs> [[Trainfck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106024 * Mujk * (+1531) Created page with "Trainfck is a language designed by [[User:Mujk|Mujk]]. It's a concurrent, brainfuck inspired esoteric programming language with trains.  == language == Trainfck is an esoteric programming language using a 2D map where trains run on rails. Trains depart from stations (+) a
01:10:35 <esolangs> [[Trainfck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106025&oldid=106024 * Mujk * (+8) /* language */
01:12:01 <esolangs> [[Trainfck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106026&oldid=106025 * Mujk * (+108) /* language */
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01:23:11 <esolangs> [[Trainfck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106027&oldid=106026 * Mujk * (+38) /* language */
01:27:45 <esolangs> [[Trainfck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106028&oldid=106027 * Mujk * (-2) /* language */
01:30:44 <esolangs> [[Trainfck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106029&oldid=106028 * Mujk * (+8) /* operators */
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01:52:06 <esolangs> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106030&oldid=105981 * Mujk * (+15) /* T */
02:40:17 <esolangs> [[Cipher]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106031&oldid=100179 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+162) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the Cipher programming language on GitHub and changed the category tag Unimplemented to Implemented.
02:43:03 <esolangs> [[Cipher]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106032&oldid=106031 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+0) Modified the 87 command's effect to calculate the quotient b/a, as the original operation b/1 appears erroneous.
02:44:35 <esolangs> [[Cipher]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106033&oldid=106032 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+342) Added an examples section with two initial members, the first demonstrating an addition, the second realizing a countdown from 4 to 1.
02:47:01 <esolangs> [[Cipher]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106034&oldid=106033 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+1) Rectified the Common Lisp interpreter description, having lapsed by retaining the nominal Muppp reference from the provenance of its copying.
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03:37:25 <zzo38> How can I check that a .gitattributes file is correct if it is not in a git repository?
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04:09:22 <esolangs> [[Miscmisc2]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106035&oldid=105191 * Transoptimal * (+5) Fix mistake in hello world example
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10:22:46 <esolangs> [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106036&oldid=106007 * Xyzzy * (-216) 
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10:29:41 <wib_jonas> https://www.bigmessowires.com/2022/12/15/mysteries-of-macintosh-high-density-mfm-disks/ some impressive reverse engineering of badly documented low-level floppy disk drive hardware and disk driver details using a logic analyzer
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14:46:37 <esolangs> [[Talk:&brainfuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106037 * Pro465 * (+84) Created page with "was it not having IO intentional? ~~~"
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15:09:31 <wib_jonas> apparently gitlab requires me to register an account to do a search among bug tickets in a project's bug tracker
15:10:45 <GregorR> That's annoying and yet somehow unsurprising.
15:13:07 <wib_jonas> jesus, just how many forms do I have to fill in to sign up for this site?
15:23:45 <wib_jonas> it gives me a mandatory form with something like "In what role you want to sign up to Gitlab" where the choices are all managerspeak job titles, and "Why are you signing up to Gitlab", none of which seem suitable either. I just want to report a fricking bug to a project, and search first whether there's already a bug ticket, darn you!
15:34:15 <GregorR> Yup, that sounds like Gitlab to me.
15:44:36 <wib_jonas> my boss asked everyone in the company that for company email we should use email signatures formatted to this weird overlong (10 lines) template that includes the company HQ site address (yes, you absolutely need that in every fricking email) and my job title in both Hungarian and English. my supervisor also told me to use that template. so I asked
15:44:36 <wib_jonas> him what my job title is but he refused to answer that.
15:44:49 <wib_jonas> not that that's relevant to gitlab because I am filing a bug report not for work
15:48:28 <GregorR> Pretty sure if your manager refuses to tell you a job title, that means you choose your own job title.
15:48:41 <GregorR> "King"? Too grandiose? "Duke"?
15:49:04 <fizzie> Chief Twit is popular, I hear.
15:50:01 <wib_jonas> GregorR: sure, but I want to know what to put in the email signature specifically.
15:50:12 <wib_jonas> and now, I don't want one that implies royalty or nobility
15:50:51 <fizzie> I have a role and a job level and other things along those lines, but I'm not sure if I have a job title.
15:51:17 <wib_jonas> I'm not even sure I'd be allowed. Hungary banned the use of nobility titles during the soviet rule, though I'm not sure if they're still banned or not.
15:52:30 <wib_jonas> the CEO who asked this has "okl. villamosmérnök / Electrical Engineer (MSc)" as his job title
15:53:00 <fizzie> Apparently I have an (editable) "Business Title" shown in the company intranet, and a (non-editable) "Job Profile" which is automatically derived from the other stuff and gets written on official papers like the "prove you're employed" letter you can request and suchlike.
15:53:23 <wib_jonas> I don't know if this is a job level or job title or role or what the difference is between those
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15:57:19 <wib_jonas> there's an in-company phonebook on the network, maintained with a large delay by the CEO, which contains the name of most employees, their email address, the phone number for their company-provided phone if they have one, and sometimes their private mobile phone number if they use it for work. that table also have a job title, but the whole table s
15:57:19 <wib_jonas> badly maintained so I don't trustu it, and it's not clear if it's the same job title as the one I should put in this email template anyway
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16:13:39 <esolangs> [[User:TheEyeOfAr3s]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106038&oldid=98248 * TheEyeOfAr3s * (+529) 
16:25:46 <esolangs> [[RESOI]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106039 * TheEyeOfAr3s * (+574) Created page with "[https://github.com/The-Eye-of-Ar3s/RESOI RESOI] is a [https://www.rust-lang.org Rust] based application designed to be shipped in a single binary and be able to run a variety of Esolangs.  == Usage ==  Usage:     resoi --file <file> --lang <lang>  Flags:     -h, --he
16:27:10 <esolangs> [[User:TheEyeOfAr3s]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106040&oldid=106038 * TheEyeOfAr3s * (-423) 
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18:56:48 <zzo38> There are other problem with GitLab, such as it requires JavaScripts to view. Due to that and other problem you mention, I do not recommend the use of Gitlab; yyou can use GitHub, Codeberg, Sourcehut, etc, instead. But, that won't help if you want to access a project which is already on Gitlab.
18:57:13 <zzo38> I had never tried to register for Gitlab so I did not know it ask such question like that. So, I do not know what are the choices in the form, either.
19:05:02 <sknebel> gitlab has gone full "we need to sell stuff"-mode
19:06:17 <sknebel> and gitlab.com has clearly failed to meaningfully challenge github.com in the open-source/free department, and post-MS-aquisition trying to compete with latter means competing with essentially infinite money for freebies... 
19:12:10 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * Joaozin003 *  uploaded "[[File:Multidodecoordinates diagram.png]]": A diagram I made for my Multidodecagony language.
19:12:48 <zzo38> Fortunately it seems to me that the damage that Microsoft had made to GitHub isn't too much (yet)
19:16:18 <esolangs> [[Multidodecagony]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106042 * Joaozin003 * (+4758) Created page with "Multidodecagony is a language made by [[User:Joaozin003|Joaozin003]] inspired by [[Hexagony]], which is laid out in dodecahedrons. Ugh!  == Etymology ==  This language's name was derived from Hexagony: multi means multiple, dodeca means dodecahedrons, agony j
19:16:58 <esolangs> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106043&oldid=106030 * Joaozin003 * (+22) 
19:21:02 <zzo38> Do you know how to make on GitHub so that the search for issues/pull-requests with "involves:zzo38 sort:updated" will include "user:zzo38" as well, in the same list?
19:22:15 <zzo38> Now I have set up a mirror of the Free Hero Mesh project on GitHub (git is rather confusing, so it took about a day to set it up). Someone might add issues there, although unlike using the NNTP or IRC, you will require a GitHub account to use the issues in GitHub (although fortunately you can read them without an account, unlike Gitlab)
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19:48:10 <GregorR> Microsoft couldn't do more damage to GitHub than git's general terribleness does ;)
19:52:13 <zzo38> Yes, git is rather confusing like I said, which is why I use fossil for my own projects. Nevertheless, I did manage to set up a git mirror too.
19:53:33 <zzo38> (One problem was that the output "fossil export" was wrong, that it had the wrong email address and I could not figure out how to configure fossil to fix that, so I used sed instead to change them to the email address that GitHub expects to be mentioned.)
20:24:48 <esolangs> [[OOOOL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106044&oldid=68170 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+9) Stub
20:40:24 <b_jonas> zzo38: I would have thought that although git is confusing, it's confusing exactly the way that you zzo38 like, so it would conufse you less than most people
20:41:15 <b_jonas> I mean your farbfeld utilities has command-line utilties with rather tricky syntax for how to invoke them, which is just what git does
20:42:01 <b_jonas> and you invent that command-line syntax, you don't just cope with it
20:44:41 <esolangs> [[RESOI]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106045&oldid=106039 * TheEyeOfAr3s * (+66) /* Supported Languages */
20:46:31 <esolangs> [[RESOI]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106046&oldid=106045 * TheEyeOfAr3s * (+168) 
20:46:43 <esolangs> [[RESOI]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106047&oldid=106046 * TheEyeOfAr3s * (-4) /* Usage */
20:57:28 <zzo38> Well, it did seem to confuse me less than most people, although the documentation does not seem to be all in one place easily to be found. The file formats also seem to be strange. With fossil, I was easily able to find all of the documentation for the file formats and protocols, and they are well documented (there were some problems with it that I reported and got corrected, e.g. it did not previously mention that it uses nonstandard b
20:59:31 <zzo38> Still, it did not take me that long to set it up. The git init documentation does not mention what is a "bare repository", but says that it can be used. I found out that it is what I needed though, so I did set up a bare repository. When asking for the password, entering the password did not work but I figured out that what is needed at that prompt is not the password but rather is the access token.
21:11:34 <zzo38> The format for blob files is easily enough, but the format for tree files and commit files is different, and the documentation does not seem to make it clear enough where to find these documents that describe these formats, as well as the other files (e.g. HEAD). I found the HEAD file it created said "ref: refs/heads/master", but I changed "master" to "trunk" and that does not seem to have cause any problems.
21:14:15 <zzo38> The documentation says that HEAD is "Your working tree is normally derived from the state of the tree referred to by HEAD. HEAD is a reference to one of the heads in your repository, except when using a detached HEAD, in which case it directly references an arbitrary commit." However, there is no working tree, so I am not sure what it is.
21:20:37 <zzo38> One thing that I cannot figure out how to do is how to make "git check-attr" to work independently of a repository, for only checking that a specified .gitattributes file is correct.
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21:51:43 <b_jonas> aren't all the docs for git in man pages that are installed if you install git on linux? 
21:52:22 <b_jonas> to be clear, I also don't much like git for multiple reasons
21:53:02 <b_jonas> git is good for its original purpose, which is for kernel devs to handle the kernel source tree, but git is overused for lots of things as a general vcs that it's very unsuitable for
21:53:26 <zzo38> Yes they are, although some parts of the documentation are hard to find.
21:55:56 <zzo38> And, I also dislike git for multiple reasons. Maybe you are right about its original purpose, though.
21:57:50 <b_jonas> the three main things that I don't like about git are the following. (1) It embraces history rewriting, anyone can submit commits in anyone else's name and with any date and any history. (2) The tools don't support partial clone well, as in, cloning only some subdirectories or only the later revisions. Afaik this one is fixable, the network protocol does support this, so they could fix it in future 
21:57:56 <b_jonas> versions of git, but that doesn't help me. (3) It fails when the repo has objects with identical SHA-1 checksum. Because of that, you can't use it to store files whose content you cant't completely trust. 
21:58:54 <b_jonas> none of these three is a problem for developing the linux kernel source tree
21:59:24 <zzo38> I agree with you about those things, although (3) is a problem with fossil as well as git (although with fossil you can use hard SHA-1 or SHA3-256, to try to mitigate the problem).
21:59:33 <b_jonas> and yes, I know that none of the other vcses are perfect
22:00:45 <b_jonas> zzo38: if you can use SHA3-256 that's good enough. git has some experimental support for a better hash function, but it's still experimental even though this is a known issue for years so again that doesn't help me
22:01:05 <zzo38> About partial clones, this should be possible in fossil as well as git, although again it is not implemented. Actually in fossil it should be easy enough to make it work, although the xfer protocol will send deltas, so you will still need the originals to download them; if you download the undeltaed data then it is easier to do though (e.g. using the raw protocol, although it only supports one file at a time)
22:01:14 <b_jonas> I mean as long as fossil can change the hash function again in the future when SHA3 is broken
22:03:27 <b_jonas> as for git has arcane command-line syntax, the worst of this one is fixed because they added a new git switch command, so you no longer have to switch your checkout to a different branch or commit with git checkout. I actually had to rename my alias because of that, because it was also called git switch.
22:04:44 <b_jonas> the rest of the arcane syntax you can also fix with a bunch of command aliases to add options that you use often. I have six more of these in my per-user git config
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22:49:20 <zzo38> In fossil you can have multiple hash algorithms in the same repository, so you do not need to rewrite everything if you change the hash algorithm. Both git and fossil use a blockchain which makes it necessary to do this if it is not possible to use multiple hash algorithms at the same time; fortunately in fossil you don't need go, but in git it is necessary, I think.
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23:22:11 <JAA> b_jonas: (1) Agreed on the rewriting part, but submitting commits in another's name is something you can't prevent in a DVCS in general; it's something that only a shared hub repository can block (which is possible e.g. by requiring GPG signatures matching the account that pushes commits).  (2) is mostly a thing already; `git clone` has `--single-branch` and `--depth` options. Path filtering I'm unsure 
23:22:17 <JAA> about though.  (3) Agreed.
23:24:46 <zzo38> Fortunately fossil does allow to include GPG signatures to be included on each commit (PGP clearsigning).
23:29:30 <esolangs> [[*]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106048&oldid=105899 * Earthrulerr * (-23) /* C++ */
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2023-01-11:

00:01:46 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
00:06:37 <fizzie> Oh, right, fungot.
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00:46:24 <b_jonas> JAA: re submitting commits in another's name, kind of, it happens even in a single-server repository when one employee merges a sequence of commits by another employee to a different branch. but when that happens the VCS should still show clearly in the log who did those actual commits, even if it also shows which commit was merged and who made that commit. like when you view the log of a merge commit. 
00:46:30 <b_jonas> git doesn't have the decency to do that.
00:47:30 <JAA> Well yeah, if you do all merges with a merge commit, it'll work exactly like that.
00:48:55 <b_jonas> 2. hmm, the shallow might be useful, but in practice for things that co-workers do at work with the vcses, I really need path filter too. also don't git shallow commit have some kind of serious limitations, like you can examine but can't push from it or something?
00:49:16 <JAA> Some people have been saying everyone should be using `--no-ff` with `git merge`, and this is one of the reasons I suppose.
00:49:23 <b_jonas> zzo38: I think git allows gpg signatures too
00:50:55 <b_jonas> JAA: I don't think you should always use --no-ff, sometimes squashing commits is appropriate, and I would like the vcs to be able to do that. and even for a squash the vcs can show which commits were squashed so you can look those up. this comes up mostly when you squash commits that you use locally as a single user.
00:51:35 <JAA> Sure, I wasn't saying that I would advocate always using it.
00:51:40 <b_jonas> I do have additional complaints about git as a general-purpose VCS, but they don't come up for what we do at my dayjobs.
00:51:59 <JAA> In any case, Git gives you the option to force a merge commit, so it's hardly the tool's fault if people don't use it.
00:52:52 <JAA> But yeah, handling rebases etc. while preserving the original commits is a bit messy and definitely not well-supported by the tooling, although you can do it (by creating a separate branch for the squashed commits, for example).
00:54:41 <b_jonas> JAA: what I'd need is that the server records who pushed the commit, not as in who created the commit, but who set what the branch points to, and when, as in kind of what the reflog stores. this is kind of orthogonal from who creates the commit. this is important for auditing reasons when you don't completely trust your coworkers.
00:55:29 <b_jonas> if a co-worker sets the trunk to a bad commit, even if he didn't create that commit but just took it from another branch where someone else committed and it's just a fast-forward to the trunk, I want to know who to blame that he broke the trunk.
00:55:44 <b_jonas> and I also want to know when this happened.
00:56:02 <b_jonas> does the reflog store this information in git?
00:57:15 <b_jonas> this is something that the server can't just copy from the pushing repo, believing it, it has to set that info itself from the current time and from the authentication info
00:57:49 <b_jonas> because it's the reflog, which is local to the refs in that repository
01:01:29 <JAA> Well, that's something the server needs to do really, which usually isn't even straight Git but something custom.
01:02:09 <JAA> But even if it is Git (e.g. on Gitea), no, the reflog wouldn't contain information on who did it, because that information never reaches Git.
01:02:24 <b_jonas> yes, it's something the server needs to do. it also needs to do authentication. that's important for repositories at a dayjob where we don't even want to give read access to just anyone on the local network.
01:03:33 <JAA> Yup, but that's kind of out-of-scope for Git itself.
01:04:56 <JAA> I know that at least Gitea does log part of this information in some sense. That's how the activity feed can work ('X pushed N commits to R').
01:06:26 <JAA> But that log is definitely very incomplete. I'm not even sure it'll catch pushes to branches other than the primary one.
01:22:41 <b_jonas> I see
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06:16:59 <zzo38> Why is GitHub saying more commits in a repository than there actually are on the contribution activity list? If it is actually selected, then the correct number of commits is displayed. (Note that many of the commits predate the creation of the repository, although those are many more than are specified here, and are listed on the pages for other years but are still more than they actually are.)
06:39:32 <esolangs> [[Treee]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106049&oldid=106011 * Octogeddonling * (+129) /* Version 2 */ but adding back the Xi2 equivalent and also making triggers possible
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10:36:53 <esolangs> [[RESOI]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106050&oldid=106047 * TheEyeOfAr3s * (+32) 
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14:35:25 <esolangs> [[Template:Wip]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106051 * Grs * (+4833) Created page with "{{WIP}}  Terrain is an esoteric programming language by ~~~ that's meant to resemble (somewhat) natural looking terrain. It's written as text, though, so it could be considered as an ASCII drawing (or multiple) too.  == Code structure ==  The code consists of ASCII dra
14:36:45 <esolangs> [[Template:Wip]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106052&oldid=106051 * Grs * (-4833) Delete this template please.
14:37:11 <esolangs> [[Terrain]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106053 * Grs * (+4833) Created page with "{{WIP}}  Terrain is an esoteric programming language by ~~~ that's meant to resemble (somewhat) natural looking terrain. It's written as text, though, so it could be considered as an ASCII drawing (or multiple) too.  == Code structure ==  The code consists of ASCII drawing(
14:39:28 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move  * Grs *  moved [[Template:Wip]] to [[TemplateWipAccedentallyCreatedTemplate]]: Template was accedentally created and I don't want this page to cause trouble.
14:40:50 <esolangs> [[Template:Wip]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106056&oldid=106055 * Grs * (-28) Removed redirect to [[TemplateWipAccedentallyCreatedTemplate]]
14:41:02 <esolangs> [[Template:Wip]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106057&oldid=106056 * Grs * (+4) 
15:03:36 -!- Guest14 has joined.
15:04:00 <Guest14> Please help me what is this?
15:04:05 <esolangs> [[Terrain]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106058&oldid=106053 * Grs * (+1456) 
15:05:22 <Guest14> could some one print the answer of 5x=x+50
15:05:39 <Guest14> Could some one print the answer of "5x=x+50"?
15:05:46 <Guest14> Could someone print the answer of "5x=x+50"?
15:06:06 <Guest14> Please write this exact line to this channel.
15:06:26 -!- Guest14 has quit (Client Quit).
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15:06:54 <Guest14> Please write this exact line to this channel.
15:07:00 <wib_jonas> fungot, please print x equals twelve and a half for our guest
15:07:00 <fungot> wib_jonas: zce annotated 16466 with " sample output" at http://paste.lisp.org/ display/ 15927
15:07:28 <wib_jonas> ^echo Please write this exact line to this channel
15:07:29 <fungot> Please write this exact line to this channel Please write this exact line to this channel
15:07:36 <wib_jonas> @echo Please write this exact line to this channel
15:07:36 <lambdabot> echo; msg:IrcMessage {ircMsgServer = "libera", ircMsgLBName = "lambdabot", ircMsgPrefix = "wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu", ircMsgCommand = "PRIVMSG", ircMsgParams
15:07:36 <lambdabot> = ["#esolangs",":@echo Please write this exact line to this channel"]} target:#esolangs rest:"Please write this exact line to this channel"
15:07:45 <wib_jonas> `echo Please write this exact line to this channel
15:07:47 <HackEso> Please write this exact line to this channel
15:08:04 <wib_jonas> @run symbol "Please write this exact line to this channel"
15:08:07 <lambdabot>  error:
15:08:07 <lambdabot>      • Variable not in scope: symbol :: [Char] -> t
15:08:07 <lambdabot>      • Perhaps you meant ‘isSymbol’ (imported from Data.Char)
15:08:13 <wib_jonas> @run var "Please write this exact line to this channel"
15:08:15 <lambdabot>  Please write this exact line to this channel
15:08:24 <wib_jonas> wasn't there a simpler command in lambdabot for this?
15:08:32 <Guest14> Please say the person on top of you
15:08:32 <wib_jonas> perlbot echo Please write this exact line to this channel
15:08:32 <perlbot> wib_jonas: Please write this exact line to this channel
15:08:48 <int-e> @echo it's not @echo
15:08:48 <lambdabot> echo; msg:IrcMessage {ircMsgServer = "libera", ircMsgLBName = "lambdabot", ircMsgPrefix = "int-e!~noone@int-e.eu", ircMsgCommand = "PRIVMSG", ircMsgParams = ["#esolangs",":@echo it's not @echo"]}
15:08:48 <lambdabot> target:#esolangs rest:"it's not @echo"
15:08:59 <wib_jonas> Guest14: the person on top of me? our office isn't *that* cramped luckiy
15:09:19 <int-e> > text "abc"
15:09:21 <lambdabot>  abc
15:09:48 <Guest14> Please nuke the mars for heating
15:09:48 <wib_jonas> int-e: ok, but is there also an echo command in lambdabot, so you don't have to mess with escaping?
15:09:50 <int-e> (`text` and `var` are more or less the same for this purpose, but `var` is more obscure)
15:10:09 <int-e> @rot13 abc
15:10:09 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
15:10:12 <wib_jonas> perlbot has one, so does HackEso, and I thought fungot had one but apparently no
15:10:13 <perlbot> wib_jonas: No factoid found. Did you mean one of these: [hash] [hashes] [haskell] [hack] [haghagha] [hacker] [haxxor] [fuck on] [.hk] [hs]
15:10:13 <fungot> wib_jonas: you can give the next talk fo kings. :p
15:11:01 <wib_jonas> my honored friend fungot, this isn't *that* council, this is the parliament
15:11:02 <fungot> wib_jonas: fair enough. for me it's easier in most languages than it si in english. i spent a lot of
15:11:37 <int-e> @@ abc
15:11:37 <lambdabot>  abc
15:11:55 <wib_jonas> @@ (@run 1+1)
15:11:57 <lambdabot>  2
15:12:03 <wib_jonas> that isn't a literal echo command, but good try
15:13:09 <int-e> Anyway, I don't actually know.
15:13:17 <Guest14> Typo: Message the next person (alphabetically) with the body of this message except if you are Guest14.
15:13:31 <wib_jonas> that's a compose command that can call into other lambdabot commands multiple times and use the result of one as the input of another. only it has a somewhat limited syntax. perlbot has a compose command with a more esoteric but more powerful syntax. I added that command.
15:13:59 <Guest14> Please greet each other
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15:14:36 <int-e> @help @
15:14:36 <lambdabot>  @@ [args].
15:14:36 <lambdabot>  @@ executes plugin invocations in its arguments, parentheses can be used.
15:14:36 <lambdabot>  The commands are right associative.
15:14:36 <lambdabot>  For example:    @@ @pl @undo code
15:14:36 <lambdabot>  is the same as: @@ (@pl (@undo code))
15:14:52 <int-e> @help .
15:14:52 <lambdabot> . <cmd1> <cmd2> [args].
15:14:52 <lambdabot> . [or compose] is the composition of two plugins
15:14:52 <lambdabot>  The following semantics are used: . f g xs == g xs >>= f
15:20:07 <int-e> @id abcdef
15:20:08 <lambdabot>  abcdef
15:20:11 <int-e> @id @abcdef
15:20:11 <lambdabot>  @abcdef
15:20:24 <int-e> duh
15:21:32 <int-e> Anyway, that really has no surprises (unless you count the prepended space)
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15:30:43 <wib_jonas> thank you! @id seems to work
15:32:09 <wib_jonas> j-bot echo: also I forgot about j-bot
15:32:09 <j-bot> wib_jonas, pong: also I forgot about j-bot
15:32:19 <wib_jonas> echo: 1*1
15:32:22 <wib_jonas> j-bot echo: 1*1
15:32:22 <j-bot> wib_jonas, pong: 1*1
15:37:08 <int-e> Hmm... j-bot, let's see. lambdabot ignore j-bot. Good.
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15:40:53 <fizzie> ^ignore
15:40:53 <fungot> ^(HackEso|lambdabot|metasepia|idris-bot|blsqbot|j-bot|esolangs|velik|perlbot)!
15:42:27 <fizzie> Interesting, both "fo" and "si" as apparent typos of "of" and "is" respectively in consecutive fungot lines.
15:42:27 <fungot> fizzie: that's ok with me; although my guess is fizzie, like most people, i assume you'll keep a lot of
15:43:10 <fizzie> Of course fungot's ^echo printing the output twice is a joke. See, it's an echo.
15:43:10 <fungot> fizzie: that's just plain incorrect. i quote: the operator and operands are evaluated. for instance, implement append-reverse thus:
15:43:14 <fizzie> ^reverb hello
15:43:14 <fungot> hheelllloo
15:44:41 <wib_jonas> ^ping ltK2k3DyciA8 I don't find that joke funny. let's see if it does that for a ping too.
15:44:41 <fungot> That Pong alone cannot stop!
15:45:27 <wib_jonas> it's still an echo if it says only once what you say. your line is one, fungot's line is another, the two together are two similar lines, that's good enough for an echo
15:45:28 <fungot> wib_jonas: two orders, if you're using fnord, not sure
15:46:11 <int-e> ^echo echo
15:46:11 <fungot> echo echo
15:46:18 <int-e> ^echo ^echo
15:46:18 <fungot> ^echo ^echo
15:46:28 <int-e> easy quine.
15:47:41 <wib_jonas> yes, that's kind of like the quine 5252 on McCulloch's second machine. it works that easily because 5 is opcode for a built-in operation that repeats a slice twice.
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18:08:24 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite  * Hakerh400 *  uploaded a new version of "[[File:Multidodecoordinates diagram.png]]"
18:09:14 <esolangs> [[Multidodecagony]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106060&oldid=106042 * Hakerh400 * (-24) Added a better quality image
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21:54:09 <esolangs> [[Multidodecagony]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106061&oldid=106060 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+49) Categories
21:55:27 <esolangs> [[Hexagony]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106062&oldid=102803 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+38) /* Computational class */ See also
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2023-01-12:

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03:17:16 <esolangs> [[Ditch]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106063 * BoundedBeans * (+2922) Created page with "Ditch is an esolang by [[User:BoundedBeans]] where syntax is irreversibly changed periodically.    ==Syntax== Ditch is a bit like Forth. It has a stack and words that operate on it, though you cannot define your own. However, in Ditch, all data is strings. Strings ar
03:18:30 <esolangs> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106064&oldid=106043 * BoundedBeans * (+12) 
03:18:53 <esolangs> [[User:BoundedBeans]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106065&oldid=105132 * BoundedBeans * (+11) 
03:20:53 <esolangs> [[Ditch]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106066&oldid=106063 * BoundedBeans * (+61) if else works with strings just like everything else
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05:23:33 <esolangs> [[2 bytes :^)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106067 * Username1234 * (+395) Created page with "'''2 bytes :^)''' is similar to [[3 bytes :v)]], [[25 bytes o:]] and [[16 bytes :P]] but shorter. By [[User:Username1234]]. ==Description== No matter what program is it it will output the original code. ==Example== === Hello, World! ===  Hello, World! === Quine 
05:24:32 <esolangs> [[User:Username1234]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106068&oldid=106006 * Username1234 * (+18) /* Non-Alphabet */
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07:36:13 <zzo38> Now they added sqlite3_is_interrupted function, which is something that I had wanted before, too, but someone else also seems like they will want it too.
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10:25:34 <esolangs> [[Nuova]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106069 * Palaiologos * (+4542) Created page with "'''Nuova''' is an esoteric programming language defined by the following C implementation:  '''WARNING: THE "AFTERMATCH" SECTION CONTAINS SPOILERS.'''  == The language ==  <code> #include <stdio.h> #include <stdlib.h> #include <stdint.h>  #define P(a,b) {u32 x=a;x^=x>
10:26:07 <esolangs> [[Nuova]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106070&oldid=106069 * Palaiologos * (+4) 
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14:10:19 <esolangs> [[5iasm]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106071&oldid=105964 * Xyzzy * (+222) 
14:11:04 <esolangs> [[Aesthetics]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106072 * Xyzzy * (+44) Redirected page to [[]]
15:05:04 <esolangs> [[Mukha]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106073&oldid=102370 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+213) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the Mukha programming language on GitHub and added the category tags Stack-based and Implemented.
15:05:48 <int-e> fizzie: thanks for the app password reminder... I had an opportunity to test it out and it worked without jumping through anyhoops.
15:08:47 <esolangs> [[Mukha]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106074&oldid=106073 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+241) Extended the preamble section's content.
15:10:00 <esolangs> [[Mukha]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106075&oldid=106074 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+130) Improved the instruction table's formatting.
15:10:30 <fizzie> Yay.
15:11:22 <int-e> `? anyhoop
15:11:24 <HackEso> anyhoop? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
15:11:32 <int-e> `"
15:11:33 <HackEso> 1/1:44) <Warrigal> I think hamsters cannot be inert. \ 117) <Gregor> <badgood> GOODBAD! Your watered down brand of evil conflicts with my botched attempts at dogoodery!
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15:18:28 <esolangs> [[User:Grs]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106076&oldid=101763 * Grs * (-15) Terrain
15:20:50 <esolangs> [[Mukha]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106077&oldid=106075 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+465) Added an examples section with two initial members, the first demonstrating a loop for decrementing the accumulator, the second applying conditional skipping for incrementing and decrementing it in both directions.
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16:56:12 <esolangs> [[Hotel]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106078&oldid=105508 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+52) /* Implementations */ Categories
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18:45:37 <GregorR> I have no memory of saying this thing...
18:59:10 <int-e> Well the logs say you did: https://logs.esolangs.org/freenode-esoteric/2010-08-02.html#l6b
18:59:17 <int-e> Of course that's all part of the conspiracy.
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19:13:21 <esolangs> [[Cipher]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106079&oldid=106034 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+25) Added the category tag Output only.
19:47:54 <fizzie> They™ have gotten to the logs! We should have put that on the blackchain.
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20:16:46 <b_jonas> ``` \? they; \? blackchain
20:16:49 <HackEso> they? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ \ blackchain? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
20:16:55 <b_jonas> `? it
20:16:57 <HackEso> It would have been certainly so, but `8ball refused to coöperate.
20:25:57 <zzo38> Blackchain? Is that similar to blockchain, or is it different?
20:42:20 <fizzie> It was a reference to https://wiki.kittensgame.com/en/general-information/resources/blackcoin
20:44:02 <FireFly> oh more kittens game enjoyers
20:48:30 <b_jonas> `coins
20:48:33 <HackEso> ​qwhiumcoin lenge/indecoin manacecoin vegnanacoin pacadocoin mecleacoin 960028coin bachcoin litespearncoin soulderlincoin listlicemhebaucoin mumcoin treatcoin ingcoin atterccoin somskjcoin neshediumcoin malbercoin rispcoin negantialtilocoin
20:48:37 <b_jonas> that kind of blackcoin?
20:49:46 <FireFly> none of those seem black to me
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22:00:52 <fizzie> I don't think I play Kittens Game "right", but I've got a run. It's the first one I've ever done, and I've kind of decided to never reset (because I'd feel bad for the current crop of kittens) or do any time skips either. So it's just kind of... plodding along.
22:01:51 <FireFly> I played it once upon a time
22:02:15 <FireFly> my first run was a long one (for the time), basically getting to the point where I couldn't really feasibly progress any further
22:02:38 <FireFly> my first reset was at 240 kittens.. after getting to somewhere in space
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22:08:09 <fizzie> I have 255 kittens right now (I've not really been maxing them out, even though it would probably make sense numerically speaking), in year 5571, and they've reached everywhere in space except for Furthest Ring (which will take 22910 or so more years).
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22:09:13 <FireFly> intense
22:09:24 <fizzie> I think the main cap on progress right now is antimatter storage capacity, which I've got at 2500. Comments on the interwebs suggest people generally rely on the paragon bonuses on storage caps to get significant amounts of that.
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22:11:34 <fizzie> A few things cost 5000+ AM, and my back-of-envelope math suggests I'd need something like 130M science at a given time to build enough containment chambers, and I've got a cap of... 5.59M.
22:12:07 <fizzie> Anyway, will probably get bored eventually. But so far I've liked the flavor text.
22:12:20 <fizzie> And unlocking color schemes, that's a good progress indicator.
22:15:31 <FireFly> I got bored eventually, but I did reset a couple times before I did
22:16:18 <FireFly> but as long as it's fun I guess :p
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22:40:45 <esolangs> [[AttoASM]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106080&oldid=70628 * Tux1 * (+123) 

2023-01-13:

00:41:52 <b_jonas> er what is that game called? Kittens Game?
00:42:14 <int-e> that's what they said
00:42:16 <b_jonas> when did esolangs start to play this? I didn't notice
00:42:33 <int-e> I still haven't figured out how many seconds a season is
00:42:38 <b_jonas> weren't they playing N-step Steve?
00:42:39 <int-e> me neither
00:43:07 * int-e finished n-step steve part 2
00:43:19 <int-e> oh noes, a cold spring
00:44:27 <int-e> I didn't know either, I only started an hour or so ago.
00:45:58 <FireFly> IIRC a kittens game year is ~15 min
00:46:14 <FireFly> maybe? it's been years since I played
00:46:27 <FireFly> might be ~an hour, in which case a season is ~15 min :p
00:46:32 <b_jonas> lol
00:47:17 <int-e> looks like 200 seconds
00:47:32 <int-e> (100 days, 2 seconds per day)
00:47:47 <int-e> a *year* is about 15 minutes then
00:47:48 <FireFly> oh, yeah that checks out, then a year is 13.34 minutes, so my ~15 min memory was right
00:47:50 <FireFly> yeah
00:48:49 <FireFly> I played it at some point in the pre-covid times, so that's at least >3 years ago :p
00:49:15 <FireFly> maybe should replay it sometime and see what's been added since
00:50:09 <fizzie> I don't think it's as... interactive, as the puzzle games.
00:50:34 <int-e> it's funny that farming can feed a bit over one kitten regardless of the season
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00:52:28 <fizzie> I've got 6 farmers (and 152 catnip fields) feeding my 255 kittens.
00:52:40 <FireFly> well you have a couple upgrades :p
00:53:03 <int-e> I have 6 kittens.
00:53:14 <int-e> It's year 4, winter
00:54:06 <fizzie> Production +95/s, (:3) village +130.31/s, |-> tools +80%, buildings +85%, solar revolution +982%, (:3) demand -2351.80/s, net surplus +4246.06/s.
00:54:18 <fizzie> It's mostly the solar revolution bonus, I guess.
00:54:39 <int-e> obviously I have no clue what that is.
00:55:29 * FireFly starts playing too
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00:55:57 <int-e> But it's definitely more interesting and less clicky than the notorious cookie clicker
00:56:51 <FireFly> I haven't played a lot of them (and haven't played cookie clicker), but I think kittens is the only infinite idle game I've really enjoyed
00:57:18 <FireFly> there are some neat finite ones though, like A Dark Room (which kittens borrowed the aesthetic/visual design from a bit)
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00:57:49 <int-e> There's the JS programming one, Bitburner.
00:57:56 <FireFly> don't think I've seen that one, hm
01:02:28 <b_jonas> do you have, like, links to these?
01:02:48 <FireFly> kittens game is http://kittensgame.com/
01:02:58 <FireFly> a dark room is http://adarkroom.doublespeakgames.com/
01:06:13 <b_jonas> thanks
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01:32:02 <GregorR> `help
01:32:02 <HackEso> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch [<output-file>] <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $HACKENV are persistent, and $HACKENV/bin is in $PATH. $HACKENV is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert, https://hack.esolangs.org/repo/ to browse. $PWD ($HACKENV/tmp) is persistent but unversioned, /tmp is ephemeral.
01:32:33 <GregorR> This is actually still a derivative of HackEgo, all these years on, innit?
01:33:12 <fizzie> Sure.
01:33:18 <fizzie> I did rewrite the init, I think.
01:33:37 <fizzie> To use protos for getting the config from the Python script, for no real reason.
01:34:17 <FireFly> it's still doing UML things, I guess?
01:34:33 <fizzie> https://github.com/fis/hackbot / https://github.com/fis/umlbox / https://github.com/fis/multibot -- they're all forks of your repos.
01:34:45 <GregorR> `cat /proc/version
01:34:46 <HackEso> Linux version 4.9.82 (root@techne.zem.fi) (gcc version 6.3.0 20170516 (Debian 6.3.0-18+deb9u1) ) #6 Sat Apr 7 13:45:01 BST 2018
01:35:13 <GregorR> Hm, thought that might say something about UML. Not sure how that gets translated :)
01:35:30 <GregorR> Well, how delightful to see that's still kickin'
01:35:40 <FireFly> `uname -a
01:35:41 <HackEso> Linux (none) 4.9.82 #6 Sat Apr 7 13:45:01 BST 2018 x86_64 GNU/Linux
01:36:10 <fizzie> I think maybe distribution UML kernels sometimes put "-uml" or something in there, but I probably just built that from the sources.
01:36:44 <fizzie> `` cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep model
01:36:46 <HackEso> model name: UML
01:36:58 <GregorR> There we go
01:48:33 <int-e> Ah, a second unicorn.
01:53:53 <fizzie> Thanks for reminding, I need to use up my unicorns.
01:54:10 <fizzie> What's the collective noun for a bunch of unicorns? 
01:54:44 <fizzie> A blessing, suggests the Internet.
01:54:54 <fizzie> I guess that makes sense.
02:04:33 <int-e> `? uml
02:04:35 <HackEso> uml? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
02:06:09 <int-e> `learn UML is short for "Umlaut". It powers Häckesö.
02:06:12 <HackEso> Learned 'uml': UML is short for "Umlaut". It powers Häckesö.
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02:39:05 <zzo38> Do you like the puzzle games like Hero Hearts? Many of the newer games you will need Steam or Windows or iPhone or something else, and have some problems, that is why I wrote my own instead. Many other people on here had play other game, but I had play a different games than anyone else did because they don't like it, I suppose
02:45:42 <zzo38> Do you like ZZT game?
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07:38:20 <b_jonas> fizzie: herd
07:38:45 <b_jonas> or town
07:42:47 <zzo38> Do you have mathematically-oriented ideas about custom cards of Magic: the Gathering? (e.g. prime numbers, Fibonacci sequence, etc, and maybe even such things not directly related to numbers, e.g. category theory)
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09:59:57 <wib_jonas> zzo38: you don't need to. mathematics is concerned with natural objects that already exist and pop up everywhere without you having to add them. that's why for example M:tG can do Turing-complete computations (and maybe more depending on what the infinite loop rules mean) even though Wizards didn't specifically aim to add a Turing-complete computer
09:59:57 <wib_jonas> in there.
10:01:18 <wib_jonas> sometimes non-mathematical coworkers are confused on why we're using mathematics to solve something, it's not because we like mathematics so much that that we use it as a tool for everything, it's because mathematics is already the right tool and was hiding behind the natural problems that we want to solve
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11:14:47 <wib_jonas> wait, so 13 inch floppy disks never existed, they started with the 8 inch ones? what kind of weird computer history is that?
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13:06:24 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106081&oldid=106016 * Orisphera * (+88) /* Ideas related to esoteric operating systems, esoteric processors and esoteric computers */
13:07:35 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106082&oldid=106081 * Orisphera * (+53) /* Ideas related to esoteric operating systems, esoteric processors and esoteric computers */
13:49:21 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * ElBe *  New user account
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14:28:52 <int-e> . o O ( +69.00 science! )
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18:14:23 <esolangs> [[User:Joaozin003]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106083&oldid=103058 * Joaozin003 * (+48) /* Links */
20:27:10 <esolangs> [[AnruBfiankc]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106084&oldid=105983 * Angrylad * (+79) added see also
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21:39:58 <b_jonas> oh wow, this Workshop offers some very expensive but powerful improvements
21:40:54 <int-e> Everything in this game is expensive.
21:41:32 <int-e> (Not currently playing, but I did start a run in my other browser profile that keeps state.)
21:42:13 <int-e> "We've noticed that you like expensive things so here's something even more expensive!" -- the game in a nutshell?
21:42:25 <b_jonas> yeah, I can get improvements that improve improvements that improve the speed of workers that produce materials
21:42:32 <int-e> The science tree also sounds a lot like Civilization.
21:43:10 <int-e> (There's Writing (if you haven't seen that yet... you'll see it soon. I'm only at year 20 or so.)
21:43:33 <b_jonas> will there be an improvement that gives cats minimal intelligence so if they would starve they abandon what they're working on and start farming instead?
21:43:43 <b_jonas> extra cold winters suck
21:44:19 <fizzie> Sadly, I don't think there's such an improvement.
21:44:30 <int-e> I don't know. Since I started over I've actually managed to plan ahead for the winters with catnip to spare. I'm also keeping cat numbers relatively low.
21:44:39 <int-e> My first run I killed 3 kittens the first year.
21:44:58 <int-e> But the record of that is gone ;-)
21:44:59 <fizzie> Though there's enough boosts to catnip production that it's no trouble keeping the number positive even in cold winters without allocating many kittens to farming.
21:45:36 <int-e> The solution is to invest catnip in spring.
21:45:53 <int-e> Or, well, at the start of winter when you know how bad it is.
21:46:13 <int-e> Though I guess there's a chance that it gets more complicated again.
21:46:28 <b_jonas> isn't this supposed to be an idle game? why should I pay attention at every winter?
21:46:29 <int-e> (Adding emergencies.)
21:46:33 <fizzie> Personally, I just kept the number positive at all times, because I'd've felt real bad for a dead kitten.
21:47:04 <int-e> b_jonas: It doesn't have to be the next spring.
21:47:04 <b_jonas> I guess I will be able to after some farming improvements
21:47:32 <fizzie> It's summer now, so not exactly comparable, but my 6 farmers (out of 255) are producing a net +4403.42/s catnip.
21:47:50 <int-e> I'm not sure how much of an actual idle game this is early on. Though I looked at the dark room thing and it seemed *terribly* attention-grabbing in comparison.
21:48:10 <int-e> fizzie: what's your year?
21:48:27 <fizzie> It's currently year 5655 here.
21:48:29 <int-e> also, do kittens die of old age?
21:48:48 <fizzie> They don't.
21:48:57 <b_jonas> I think if they die of old age, the hut just immediately replace them with a new younger kitten that can do just as much work
21:49:08 <b_jonas> the young ones are just as good scholars as the old wise ones
21:49:13 <b_jonas> they are born wise
21:49:26 <fizzie> No, they're canonically the same kittens. There's a tech that gives you a list of names, ages, traits and ranks of all your kittens in the second tab.
21:49:48 <b_jonas> ah
21:49:51 <fizzie> So my kitten leader, Lily Fur, was 11 years old already over five millennia ago.
21:49:55 <fizzie> Which is a bit weird.
21:50:28 <b_jonas> furs and ivory? what the heck are those?
21:50:35 <fizzie> (As far as I'm aware, the names and ages are absolutely meaningless. The traits and ranks do have a gameplay effect.)
21:50:42 <b_jonas> oh no, the cats are eating i
21:50:54 <int-e> it makes them happy
21:50:54 <fizzie> Yeah, the cats consume luxury resources. :/
21:51:05 <int-e> also, happy kittens need more food
21:51:12 <b_jonas> huh
21:51:16 <int-e> that almost killed me at least once. well, not me.
21:51:23 <int-e> just a kitten
21:52:02 <fizzie> Current resource stats, which I guess might qualify as mild spoilers in terms of what's to come: https://zem.fi/tmp/res.png
21:52:03 <int-e> "need more food"... it's not a whole lot more food... just noticable when you're balancing food production and consumption
21:52:11 <fizzie> (Not a complete list.)
21:52:38 <b_jonas> I'm in year 15 currently
21:53:30 <fizzie> I think I found happiness a bit tricky to manage earlier on, actually. There's a fairly strict overpopulation penalty past... some number of kittens, maybe 20? 
21:54:05 <fizzie> But there's two different building types later on to partially mitigate that penalty, so my kittens are currently 268% happy.
21:54:15 <int-e> fizzie: it already ramps up at 10
21:54:26 <fizzie> Ah, that early. Yeah, it was a thing.
21:54:57 <int-e> It's 1% per kitten up to 10, then 2%... I wouldn't be surprised if it grows further, but I haven't grown beyond 12.
21:55:32 <fizzie> I think it's flat 2% forever, actually. Well, or at least for the first 255.
21:56:04 <fizzie> Because my happiness score lists a penalty base of -500%, and 10*1+245*2 is that.
21:56:12 <int-e> I have unicorns so the baseline is now 96%.
21:56:14 <FireFly> kittens is a game that really punishes you if you don't spend the time/investment to boost the multipliers for other resources (like mines for minerals, workshops especially for all the derived resources)
21:56:23 <fizzie> (Of which, 499% is mitigated.)
21:56:47 <FireFly> fizzie: I miss BTs :p
21:57:22 <fizzie> Yeah, that was a worthwhile upgrade. The others that trade catnip for energy, more of a mixed sword.
21:57:48 <fizzie> I think I combined a two-edged sword and a mixed blessing together accidentally.
21:57:51 <FireFly> (I kinda wanna be a bit conservative with building/etc names, because I think at least for me I really enjoyed the exploration side of my first run)
21:58:00 <FireFly> so I don't wanna spoil that for others :p
21:58:10 <int-e> FireFly: I actually do like the fact that I started playing and starved 3 kittens... mixing in detrimental effects sets this game apart from other incremental games.
21:58:26 <FireFly> mm
21:58:29 <b_jonas> I find it odd that the first research is Calendar, described as "Develops the ability to predict when the seasons will change." yet the game still doesn't tell me how many seconds more of winter I have. It only says how many days the winter has lasted so far, but nothing else is measured in days.
21:58:43 <fizzie> A real mixed sword, or as some people call it, a two-edged blessing.
21:58:48 <int-e> FireFly: Well, that I've seen. I haven't really played that many.
21:59:12 <int-e> fizzie: You have two-edged unicorns (pural)?
21:59:28 <FireFly> ah, duocorns
21:59:32 <b_jonas> two-headed unicorns
21:59:44 <FireFly> (or bicorns?)
22:00:50 <fizzie> Odd, the game displays a year of 5655, but with a tooltip saying the real year is 5661, even though I haven't done any time shenanigans.
22:01:02 <fizzie> Maybe that's just from the negative days.
22:01:08 <FireFly> oh
22:01:11 <FireFly> I think it is probably
22:01:17 <b_jonas> "negative days"?
22:01:18 <FireFly> they work in paradoxical ways after all
22:01:27 <int-e> spoilers!
22:01:39 <fizzie> Yeah, it's a fine line to tread, discussing this stuff.
22:01:53 <fizzie> Well, there's "time stuff", let's leave it at that.
22:02:09 <fizzie> I mean, I guess the time tab is there from the very beginning.
22:02:10 <b_jonas> yeah, the time tab is probably not just for the single button
22:02:30 <int-e> two?
22:03:19 <b_jonas> yeah, two, there's Reset as well
22:04:44 <b_jonas> ok, I reached the stage where the next catnip field is so expensive that I need to improve storage to buy it. I have to decide if I want to buy a barn or if I want to buy the much more expensive upgrade that makes my barns bigger
22:05:26 <FireFly> <int-e> I'm not sure how much of an actual idle game this is early on. Though I looked at the dark room thing and it seemed *terribly* attention-grabbing in comparison.  <- yeah, I think ADR gets a bit idle-y too at a point, but it's also a bit different in that it takes maybe a day or two to finish, and there's like, a definitive end with credits and things
22:05:45 <FireFly> so it's not really quite an idle game in the same way? I think it's one of the first ones in that genre of webgames
22:06:54 <b_jonas> apparently I need all my barns full of wood to but this barn size upgrade
22:07:17 <int-e> You need 4 barns to upgrade barns.
22:07:21 <int-e> Guess how many barns I have atm.
22:07:21 <b_jonas> yep
22:07:51 <b_jonas> 6
22:08:06 <int-e> Nah, 4.
22:08:40 <b_jonas> making iron from wood is odd
22:08:50 <b_jonas> oh right, the wood is for heating the furnace
22:08:51 <b_jonas> sorry
22:09:01 <b_jonas> so apparently the minerals don't include coal
22:09:35 <int-e> FWIW: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/kittens-buildings.png (There may be two or three building types there that you don't have yet.)
22:10:37 <FireFly> oh fun
22:11:21 <FireFly> I think it's probably still worth getting more kittens btw, though yeah, it's a balance act with the happiness stuff
22:11:56 <int-e> Well I can see that I need more catpower soon-ish.
22:12:19 <int-e> And at this point that means more huts and/or houses.
22:12:58 <FireFly> you have a building at your disposal to help fight the overpopulation problem
22:13:15 <FireFly> I think it's fine if you're in the like, 90+ happiness range consistently
22:13:29 <int-e> It's still very early in the game.
22:13:34 <FireFly> sure
22:13:36 <int-e> I'm not overly worried :)
22:13:53 <fizzie> I think I was trying to shoot for 90+%, yeah.
22:13:56 * FireFly nods
22:14:13 <fizzie> And once that building you mention upgraded to the other building you alluded to, it stopped really being a problem at all.
22:15:00 <FireFly> the game does like doing those things where after a while you just get a hammer to deal with a problem once and for all
22:15:05 <FireFly> not for _every_ problem, but for many of them
22:15:05 <int-e> FireFly: I also have only one smelter which means anything that needs gold is excruciatingly slow. I have not spent any gold yet.
22:15:39 <b_jonas> but a second smelter isn't too expensive, so you can invest into that if you need lots of gold
22:16:00 <FireFly> yep, priorities though :)
22:16:00 <int-e> So you can see that gold was discovered 446.5 days ago. ;-)
22:16:28 <int-e> Yeah, priorities. I have tons of other things that don't need any gold yet.
22:17:59 <fizzie> Ooh: "Color scheme permanently unlocked: Vintage"
22:18:09 <fizzie> (Not a spoiler, because you can see the full list of them in settings.)
22:18:29 <int-e> Yes, spoiler: You can unlock color schemes? ;-)
22:18:46 <int-e> (I don't care. It doesn't affect the game. Well, I hope.)
22:18:55 <fizzie> No, it's entirely cosmetic.
22:19:00 <FireFly> pretty sure it's quite literally just cosmetic yea :p
22:19:24 <fizzie> It's in the Options menu, and it also says "Relock Themes" which kind of implies you can *un*lock them too.
22:19:32 <fizzie> Well, maybe that only shows up once you have some unlocked.
22:19:57 <FireFly> speaking of options menu, might be worth giving it a look-over, there's some useful ones that can be tweaked to one's preferene
22:20:10 <FireFly> like hiding sell buttons :p
22:20:36 <fizzie> I turned web worker on, because at least in my Chrome otherwise switching to a different virtual desktop froze the game.
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22:26:41 <b_jonas> I do want to be able to sell huts
22:27:01 <int-e> You can?
22:27:28 <int-e> But the kittens don't just leave... and I don't know what happens to their happiness.
22:27:53 <fizzie> I would think a homeless kitten would be a sad one.
22:27:57 <fizzie> (Haven't tried.)
22:28:07 <int-e> Because in my case they starved before I could figure that out.
22:28:51 <int-e> (Story from my first ill-fated run. I couldn't farm yet.)
22:29:58 <FireFly> I think many first-time players have bad experiences with winter in their first run
22:30:07 <FireFly> especially if they get unlucky with a cold one, heh
22:30:41 <int-e> I just did the normal thing... spend all my resources, max out on workers.
22:30:46 <int-e> ;)
22:31:00 <int-e> *can* you even get unlucky the first year?
22:31:23 <int-e> I kind of doubt it, but my sample size is small. Three runs.
22:32:00 <int-e> (I had the first run, then a better experimental run yesterday up to year 10, but on the forgetful browser.)
22:32:02 <FireFly> oh hm
22:32:20 <FireFly> yeah you're right, I think the cold/warm might only kick in after a few years
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22:37:10 <b_jonas> yay, expanded barns!
22:37:31 <b_jonas> FireFly: yes, starting from year 4. my winter in year 4, winter in year 5, and the spring after winter in year 5 were all cold.
22:40:04 <b_jonas> oh... even with the expanded barns I can't buy the next catnip field
22:40:17 <b_jonas> wow
22:40:39 <b_jonas> there's something wrong with that. does the extnded barns not store more catnips?
22:40:54 <b_jonas> it only increases the other capacities?
22:44:35 <b_jonas> ah yes, the description says "Expanded Barns. 75% more storage space for wood and iron"
22:44:44 <b_jonas> oops
22:45:01 <b_jonas> ooh, happiness can go above 100%
22:47:05 <b_jonas> hmm, now I can build warehouses
22:47:28 <FireFly> for housing all your warez
22:54:32 <b_jonas> ooh, a new tab too. Trade
22:54:39 <b_jonas> I can trade with hostile Griffins
22:55:01 <b_jonas> that's fun because they have almost as many different English spellings as Phoenixes
22:55:45 <b_jonas> and I could discover new lands if I had more catpower capacity, though I have no idea how to increase my catpower capacity
22:56:31 <b_jonas> there's also a Stats page, showing that I starved 8 kittens near the start of the game
22:57:04 <fizzie> Ugh, Griffins.
22:57:10 <fizzie> The Griffins hate you for no reason.
22:57:12 <b_jonas> ooh! census
22:57:25 <FireFly> the real bastards are the zebras..
22:57:36 <fizzie> Well, yes.
22:57:49 <b_jonas> "Leader: %username%"
22:58:00 <FireFly> oh yeah, that's a silly bug
22:58:13 <FireFly> I think the only reason it hasn't been fixed is it's literally only a problem before one selects their first leader
22:58:47 <fizzie> The only policy set I've not made a choice between that I've been eligible to is Zebra Relations, because neither of the two options really appealed to me.
22:58:56 <fizzie> For everything else, I've picked something.
23:00:05 <b_jonas> hmm, does buying a second workshop unlock more researches that I can buy in the workshop and/or more craftable materials?
23:00:10 <b_jonas> I have to try
23:00:36 <fizzie> It improves your craft effectiveness.
23:00:46 <b_jonas> yeah, I know that part, it says so
23:01:01 <fizzie> That's "all" it does, but that's not an unimportant benefit.
23:01:09 <fizzie> Since a lot costs craftable resources.
23:01:44 <fizzie> I'm at +786% craft effectiveness, for example.
23:01:47 <b_jonas> sure, and there are multi-depth crafting recipes where you get the productivity bonus multiple times
23:01:54 <FireFly> it's one of those things that'll end up having-- yeah
23:02:01 <FireFly> it pays off heavily
23:03:58 <fizzie> FireFly: Did you start making spreadsheets? I understand that's kind of a thing to do with these things.
23:04:00 <fizzie> I've done a few little things, but nothing really major.
23:04:44 <FireFly> I remember taking some notes around trading with the different trading partners at least
23:04:51 <FireFly> but yeah, only minor things for me I think
23:04:54 <b_jonas> I have written my own calculator tool for Factorio, and have more TODO how I should improve it. does that count?
23:04:55 <FireFly> I'm not _that_ much of a minmaxer
23:05:24 <fizzie> Different game, but definitely the same sort of thing.
23:06:11 <b_jonas> I don't think I'll get very deep in Kittens
23:07:09 <b_jonas> ok, that might have been the last catnip fields that I bought
23:07:58 <fizzie> Some of those things really ramp up in cost. Huts in particular.
23:08:22 <b_jonas> I have 71 catnip fields and 5 barns, and I'd need to buy another barn to buy the catnip fields, and I could probably only buy like two or three before the next barn after that
23:08:48 <b_jonas> so I guess I'll just have to invest into science until I discover better food production methods
23:09:07 <FireFly> that's a lotta catnip fields
23:09:38 <fizzie> I've got 156 catnip fields, but the six farmers still outperform them in terms of catnip production.
23:10:40 <fizzie> And of course aren't affected by seasons, which is maybe not very realistic.
23:11:05 <b_jonas> whoa, log house, I didn't notice that
23:11:31 <FireFly> ! I came across my first new game mechanic (since I last played)
23:12:43 <FireFly> (Lbhe xvggraf ner fhssrevat ab vyy rssrpgf sebz cbyyhgvba.)
23:13:42 <fizzie> Vg cebonoyl pbhagf nf purngvat, ohg V whfg 'abcr'q gung. Naq sebz jung V ernq, gur vagebqhpgvba bs vg jnf n yvggyr pbagebirefvny gbb.
23:14:38 <fizzie> (Gurer'f n gbttyr va bcgvbaf / zber sbe vg. Gubhtu V qvq vg ol QVL.)
23:15:06 <FireFly> *nod*
23:17:38 <fizzie> V guvax zl znva fghzoyvat oybpx va gur ab-erfrgf nccebnpu evtug abj vf, lbh qba'g trg npprff gb frpbaq-gvre havpbea eryvtvba fghss jvgubhg Zrtnybinavn, juvpu pbfgf 5+10 cnentba (jvgu gur cererdhvfvgr), fb V yvgrenyyl pna'g qb zhpu zber orsber jnvgvat gra gubhfnaq zber lrnef.
23:18:24 <fizzie> Playing without resets is probably objectively nonsensical, but eh.
23:18:48 <FireFly> ow
23:19:07 <FireFly> I think at least if you continue that approach you'll get an achievement after silly amounts of time
23:19:13 <FireFly> but..
23:19:23 <FireFly> yeah I'm not sure it's worth it :p
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23:20:12 <fizzie> I suspect I'll leave it in the background for extended periods of time eventually.
23:23:08 <b_jonas> huh, the workshop lists a craftable material that is crafted from a material that I don't know yet
23:23:30 <b_jonas> oh, more than one in fact
23:23:35 <b_jonas> but this one isn't red
23:23:46 <b_jonas> it's just gray
23:23:50 <b_jonas> I don't know how this works
23:24:14 <fizzie> I suspect it means the initial storage capacity of the thing you don't have yet is sufficient to craft whatever it is it's for.
23:24:46 <b_jonas> ah
23:25:31 <fizzie> Or maybe it's a craftable resource that has no caps. But in any case, I think red's reserved for the case where you couldn't possibly build something because of the caps.
23:34:10 <b_jonas> ooh! I got a new way to get more catnip
23:35:57 <fizzie> Now that I think of it, I'm not sure it's healthy for kittens to subsist only on catnip.
23:38:02 <b_jonas> maybe the catnip is a game simplification for multiple plant-based cat food
23:38:45 <FireFly> yeah, it pretty much is
23:38:51 <b_jonas> ooh! free items from the workshop productivity
23:39:56 <FireFly> "catnip" just sounds more fun than "food" (and I guess works better with the refinement to wood.. well kinda, I mean it's the kind of game where you need to suspend some disbelief I guess :p)
23:40:23 <fizzie> I guess it's a catnip forest, after all, that's already a bit odd.
23:46:23 <fizzie> Heh, I just realized I kind of stopped building warehouses a long time ago (there's so much bigger storage upgrades), and now they're relatively speaking really cheap.
23:46:30 <fizzie> Like, at the count I'm on (62 warehouses), the price is ~2k beam and slab, and I've got a stockpile of 4.71G beam and 3.13G slab. I guess I could throw a hundred million each at it, for something like... 70 more warehouses, if my math was right.
23:47:15 <fizzie> Yeah, ended up at 137 warehouses before the slab count dipped to 2.99G.
23:47:42 <fizzie> Didn't actually boost the resource caps very much though.
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23:56:02 <b_jonas> ooh! so this new thing boosts catnip production both on the fields and by farmers
23:56:31 <FireFly> oh yeah
23:56:34 <FireFly> those are very useful
23:57:46 <fizzie> The tooltips about bonuses are sometimes kinda hard to interpret.
23:58:27 <fizzie> They've got some |-> notation sometimes which I've inferred is trying to indicate what bonuses apply to what.
23:58:52 <b_jonas> hmm, refine catnip to wood doesn't benefit from the workshop bonus?
23:59:17 <fizzie> For catnip, I think it's (fields * weather + village * tools) * buildings * other things.
23:59:23 <fizzie> I thought it did? 
23:59:42 <fizzie> Maybe that one was special, actually.

2023-01-14:

00:00:11 <fizzie> Yeah, there's a different kind of (much later) building that affects the catnip refine bonus separately.
00:00:20 <b_jonas> I clicked on the refine 100 catnip button and got only 100 wood
00:00:29 <fizzie> Yeah, that's probably right.
00:01:09 <b_jonas> I know there's a workshop upgrade that makes it costs only 50 catnip per wood, and I got that already
00:01:42 <fizzie> (With +4372/s catnip production and +242K/s of wood production, there isn't really much sense in refining catnip to wood.)
00:02:23 <b_jonas> anyway, it looks like producing wood with woodcutters is faster than with farmers, that's what I wanted to know, that's why I was trying to understand how all these confusing numbers work
00:02:25 <FireFly> I think there was a period in which farmers + refining catnip paid off better than woodcutters
00:02:39 <FireFly> but probably only temporarily and only borderline
00:02:46 <FireFly> probably not worth optimising for :p
00:05:02 <b_jonas> yeah, but the numbers were so hard to understand that I didn't know it even though it's not even close now, woodcutters are much better
00:07:16 <fizzie> I would like to get a bit more (moderate spoilers) snvgu, orpnhfr bs gubfr ercrngrq eryvtvba obahfrf + yrff obahf ybff sebz nqbengvba, ohg vg qbrfa'g frrz ernyyl cenpgvpny, orpnhfr NSNVPG bayl grzcyrf fgber snvgu, naq ng 69 grzcyrf, gur arkg bar pbfgf 125X tbyq.
00:08:21 <shachaf> Hmm, I don't remember any catnip in N-Step Steve.
00:08:41 <fizzie> (Bxnl, abg fb zhpu yrff FE obahf ybff, zber yvxr orvat noyr gb erfgber vg snfgre ol fnivat hc zber snvgu.)
00:11:01 <FireFly> mmm
00:11:12 <FireFly> it's kind of designed around having reset at that point I think
00:11:20 <FireFly> (but yes, them kittens..)
00:12:50 <b_jonas> ok, I think I can capture more kittens
00:13:56 <fizzie> In my headcanon, they're joining of their own volition, not really get captured.
00:14:09 <b_jonas> yeah
00:14:16 <b_jonas> let's say I can attract more kittens
00:27:19 <int-e> . o O ( the cheat code is "c'mere kitty" )
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00:48:34 <b_jonas> you were right, some of these things that I can buy are very expensive
00:49:51 <b_jonas> well I can't buy them yet
00:50:08 <b_jonas> but they're offered from sale 
00:52:05 <fizzie> "13.05Z havpbeaf unir orra fnpevsvprq. Lbh'ir tbg 167.04X havpbea grnef!" At some point these stop feeling like real things and just become numbers.
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01:01:37 <b_jonas> I hope I eventually get something that gives zber cebqhpgvivgl gb fzrygvat veba
01:02:03 <b_jonas> year 29, 11 kittens by the way
01:13:25 <int-e> > 28 * 800 / 3600
01:13:27 <lambdabot>  6.222222222222222
01:14:37 <FireFly> frig, accidentally had some kittens die :(
01:14:43 <FireFly> so much for keeping that zero
01:15:09 <FireFly> should've kept more of a safety margin
01:15:30 <int-e> . o O ( just use the "wipe" button and all will be forgotten )
01:18:26 <b_jonas> what's the difference between wipe and reset?
01:19:06 <int-e> For now, the statistics tab.
01:19:26 <int-e> Apparently there's some boni that carry over between runs later one? Not sure, just sounds like it.
01:19:40 <int-e> Wipe gets rid of all that too.
01:19:57 <FireFly> doesn't the 'Time' tab expand on that in the reset section?
01:20:19 <int-e> It's explained somewhere in the game, yeah.
01:20:20 <FireFly> (but yeah, that seems right)
01:20:28 <int-e> I don't have it open :P
01:20:36 <int-e> (So I'm still 21)
01:20:45 <FireFly> oh to still be 21..
01:20:48 * FireFly ducks
01:21:15 <b_jonas> FireFly: "Resetting the timeline will start the game from scratch. You will keep all your statistics and achievements. You receive various game bonuses."
01:21:44 <FireFly> right
01:21:54 <b_jonas> two more minutes and I'll be able to buy the expensive thing that will make the kittens very happy
01:23:45 <int-e> you'd think catnip would be enough
01:23:48 <b_jonas> bought it
01:32:41 <b_jonas> I just got my first unicorn
01:33:06 <b_jonas> clearly the expensive thing was worth
01:33:14 <int-e> huh
01:33:54 <int-e> hunters brought unicorns home for me in the first decade in two runs
01:33:59 <int-e> was I lucky?
01:34:14 <fizzie> Regarding fzrygvat veba, there's n qvssrerag ohvyqvat gung unf n zhpu ovttre onfr engr bs veba cebqhpgvba, cyhf inevbhf hctenqrf, but really what matters are the zber be yrff tybony cebqhpgvba obahfrf. For example, I'm cebqhpvat +11390/f veba, sebz n onfr cebqhpgvba svther bs zreryl +86.19/f, jvgu +333%, +175% naq +1010% obahfrf nccyvrq zhygvcyvpngviryl.
01:34:37 <fizzie> I don't think I needed to hunt _too_ long to get my first 'corn.
01:35:32 <int-e> Plural, btw, I got the unicorn pasture too. I saw a third one, but that took a long while.
01:35:59 <fizzie> Ah, if you've got a unicorn pasture, then you've seen its flavor text, I liked that one.
01:36:01 <int-e> But I guess it's still a matter of sparing a worker for hunting.
01:36:25 <int-e> Some of the flavor texts are funny.
01:36:31 <fizzie> I'm getting +188.10/s plain 'corns at the moment.
01:37:13 <int-e> I liked the aqueduct one too.
01:37:25 <fizzie> I don't think I can see it any more. :/
01:37:40 <int-e> "No swimming"
01:37:47 <fizzie> Ah, heh.
01:37:59 <fizzie> Wouldn't think a kitten community would need that sign.
01:38:09 <fizzie> Well, some cats do like to swim, I've seen them on YouTube.
01:38:14 <int-e> Heh, that didn't cross my mind.
01:38:31 <int-e> Though I've heard that *some* cats like water.
01:39:26 <int-e> Does the game also do the Civilization thing where a certain technology renders buildings obsolete?
01:39:43 <fizzie> That may or may not be the reason why I can't see the text any more. (Yes.)
01:40:23 <fizzie> Although... the way it works is, when you choose to "upgrade" a building type, you lose all the old ones you've built, and the new ones aren't in all cases just "same, but better".
01:40:43 <fizzie> Sometimes they do a different thing. And it's not done to everything, just a handful of things.
01:41:33 <fizzie> I think I stalled quite long before getting rid of aqueducts, because of having to allocate a lot of kittens for farming to compensate for the loss of catnip production.
01:42:35 <b_jonas> ooh, so now I have to craft in the workshop parchment from furs, while the kittens are quickly eating the furs to make this hard
01:42:46 <int-e> Okay, so not quite the same... Civilization had you scramble and rebuild everything.
01:43:05 <int-e> (well, "scramble"... it's turn-based after all)
01:43:15 <fizzie> By the way, on unicorns, there's one whole game mechanic that (from what I've read) a lot of people take a long long time to find, owing to the fact that the game doesn't actually show buildings you have already unlocked until you've got some sufficient fraction of the resources to build them.
01:43:20 <fizzie> So if a building needs some craftable resource, and you don't have any other reason to craft it, and it's an expensive one, you might never learn the building exists in the first place.
01:43:39 <fizzie> That's kind of bad design-wise, for anyone who doesn't just get spoiled by the internet.
01:43:43 <int-e> Oh.
01:43:55 <b_jonas> ah, I didn't know that
01:44:38 <int-e> That's pretty bad if you always decide what to build next and build it as soon as possible.
01:44:56 <int-e> (Which is even encouraged by the building queue.)
01:45:21 <fizzie> I don't think there's many cases where that's likely to happen, and it's not super relevant for the early game I guess, but still.
01:45:46 <int-e> There's also the resource tab to the left where you can convert stuff directly... but only if you've converted it before.
01:45:56 <int-e> I missed the "workshop" tab for a while.
01:46:27 <fizzie> Says somewhere you need to have available 30% of the resources needed for building a thing before the thing shows up in the bonfire tab.
01:47:06 <int-e> 30%. Yeah that feels consistent with what I've seen.
01:47:30 <b_jonas> wait, what increases catpower storage capacity?
01:47:46 <b_jonas> I used to have only 400, now I have 525
01:47:54 <fizzie> The number of kittens. Or housing, rather.
01:48:00 <b_jonas> I see
01:48:08 <int-e> (I've experienced that a) buildings don't show up when they're unlocked and b) that they show up way before I have enough resources to build them.
01:48:16 <fizzie> (And one more thing.)
01:49:18 <FireFly> oh yeah, the building queue is also new for me
01:49:23 <b_jonas> this first building I've seen that requires parchment showed up before I ever crafted parchment. probably because it also costs other resources which I had and those count into that 30%
01:49:43 <fizzie> It actually says the catpower increase in the hut / log house tooltips; it's not exactly the same catpower/kittens ratio between the two of them.
01:49:59 <b_jonas> indeed ti does
01:52:40 <fizzie> If you're worried about the one "missable" building and don't mind just its existence spoiled, it's n mvttheng, naq gur svefg bar pbfgf svsgl zrtnyvgu naq fpnssbyq (dhvgr rkcrafvir rneyl ba), naq vf haybpxrq ol pbafgehpgvba (gur fnzr nf r.t. ybt ubhfrf, fb cerggl rneyl).
01:53:19 <fizzie> It might not even do much before some other milestone, don't remember.
01:56:45 <b_jonas> I'm more worried about missable upgrades or research in the workshop, perhaps those also show up only if I have resources, though most seem to be locked behind other researches
02:00:11 <b_jonas> this game is very well done by the way. you can tell that from how there's an undo button.
02:14:52 <int-e> ideally it should have a way to export and import the state :P
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02:17:18 <b_jonas> int-e: there is a way to export and import the game state, bottom of the options menu 
02:17:45 <int-e> Oh?!
02:17:48 <int-e> I'll have to check that.
02:18:57 <fizzie> Yeah, I've been doing Export → File (full name) as a way of backing up every now and then.
02:19:23 <fizzie> (Which was good, because it turned out I had configured the browser to forget all state when it gets closed, and then I had to reboot.)
02:19:53 <fizzie> That would've been a tragic tragedy.
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04:49:45 <zzo38> Do you know why sometimes I am unable to send on the internet even though I can receive (therefore, can continue to download files that are being downloaded but cannot initiate a download, and can receive IRC messages and eventually get a ping timeout, etc)?
05:22:23 <b_jonas> hmm, there's now a promote button, it complains "not enough gold" if I try to use it, but it doesn't tell how much gold I need
05:22:27 <b_jonas> odd mystery mechanic
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11:59:23 <int-e> Hah, https://xkcd.com/2724/ (yesterday's) reminds me a bit of this channel.
12:20:25 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106085&oldid=106022 * Xyzzy * (+127) 
12:21:10 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106086&oldid=106085 * Xyzzy * (-72) 
12:25:07 <esolangs> [[User:Xyzzy]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106087&oldid=102963 * Xyzzy * (+230) 
12:25:31 <esolangs> [[User:Xyzzy]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106088&oldid=106087 * Xyzzy * (+12) 
13:13:10 <int-e> b_jonas: Ah "the bottom of the options"... I didn't see the scroll bar in the options box. (It auto-hides. Grumble.)
13:16:26 <int-e> But the two `file` buttons don't work for me? Hmm.
13:17:07 <int-e> The text box is fine, I suppose.
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13:19:18 <esolangs> [[Terrain]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106089&oldid=106058 * Grs * (+118) 
13:30:50 <esolangs> [[Terrain]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106090&oldid=106089 * Grs * (+983) 
13:32:33 <esolangs> [[Terrain]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106091&oldid=106090 * Grs * (+143) 
13:34:29 <esolangs> [[Terrain]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106092&oldid=106091 * Grs * (+99) 
13:34:47 <esolangs> [[Terrain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106093&oldid=106092 * Grs * (+0) 
13:36:08 <esolangs> [[Terrain]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106094&oldid=106093 * Grs * (+15) 
13:39:34 <esolangs> [[Terrain]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106095&oldid=106094 * Grs * (+272) 
13:40:26 <esolangs> [[Terrain]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106096&oldid=106095 * Grs * (+6) 
13:41:46 <esolangs> [[Terrain]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106097&oldid=106096 * Grs * (+3) 
13:55:02 <esolangs> [[Terrain]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106098&oldid=106097 * Grs * (+1113) 
13:55:33 <esolangs> [[Terrain]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106099&oldid=106098 * Grs * (+0) 
14:12:49 <esolangs> [[Terrain]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106100&oldid=106099 * Grs * (+515) 
14:15:50 <esolangs> [[Terrain]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106101&oldid=106100 * Grs * (+44) 
14:23:30 <esolangs> [[Terrain]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106102&oldid=106101 * Grs * (+715) 
14:28:51 <esolangs> [[Terrain]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106103&oldid=106102 * Grs * (+599) 
14:29:20 <FireFly> (kittens) whei, new tab
14:30:12 <esolangs> [[Terrain]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106104&oldid=106103 * Grs * (+63) 
14:30:35 <esolangs> [[Terrain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106105&oldid=106104 * Grs * (-1) 
14:33:44 <b_jonas> int-e: at least one of the file buttons to export the save worked for me. 
14:36:34 <b_jonas> also I was stupid, turns out I'm stuck in science because I didn't have enough science storage capacity. 
14:37:11 <b_jonas> they're not even expensive to build or anything, I just wasn't looking at that possibility: the 9000 storage capacity seemed so high compared to previous science upgrades that I thought I'd never run out of it
14:38:06 <b_jonas> also yay! while I was idle my village attracted its second unicorn, so now I can finally start unicorn industry. 
14:40:10 <b_jonas> oh wow, I made my cats too happy
14:40:49 <esolangs> [[Terrain]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106106&oldid=106105 * Grs * (+406) 
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14:49:50 <int-e> Well you need to store a lot of books for philosophy
14:58:44 <int-e> b_jonas: I'm still baffled why those unicorns eluded you for so long. Surely you sent out hunters?
15:05:16 <fizzie> I've got a red science update because it needs 23.75M science, which is quite a bit more than anything else has so far (my current cap is 9.37M). :/
15:09:49 <fizzie> There's a point at which science updates start including other things in addition. Because those other things are science-related, the game displays a very high science requirement, so there's even an extra hint text in the description about how you don't need all that science at once.
15:12:52 <GregorR> You haven't done enough science mining?
15:13:01 <GregorR> Didn't send the science miners to the science mine to collect enough science?
15:13:41 <fizzie> The problem is more on managing to keep all that science rather than collecting enough.
15:14:52 <FireFly> int-e: I think the rate for those is very low, so maybe you got lucky and b_jonas got unlucky :p
15:14:55 <GregorR> Ahhh, you need more or more reliable science silos, or you have science rats eating your science stock or something. I see. Maybe you need some science cats to eat the science rats, assuming you have enough science to unlock science cats. (I have no idea what we're talking about)
15:15:27 <FireFly> GregorR: http://kittensgame.com/ seems to have sniped some of the channel
15:16:02 <GregorR> So... talking about science unlocking science cats was more prescient than I could've imagined.
15:16:14 <FireFly> yes :p
15:18:05 <fizzie> Aww, turns out Ibvq Evsgf qba'g nssrpg gur nagvznggre fgbentr pncnpvgl. Jnf ubcvat gurl'q qb. Whfg ohvyg gur svefg bar.
15:18:39 <FireFly> *nod*
15:20:14 <b_jonas> int-e: I sent out hunters, but not very often, usually had only one hunter working at a time, and the expensive Hunting Armor improvement was one of the last things I researched
15:21:02 <int-e> I don't have that one yet.
15:21:36 <int-e> I did send out hunters early though and usually had 2 of them. They brought two unicorns back the first decade.
15:21:46 <int-e> But... maybe I was lucky.
15:22:21 <int-e> I finally have culture though.
15:22:48 <b_jonas> fungot, compared to typical lions, how much more difficult is a pack of carillions?
15:22:48 <fungot> b_jonas: probably. but now tabbed browsing doesn't work properly
15:22:54 <int-e> (I wish they'd display the stat when it's researched rather than when you produce it for the first time)
15:23:27 <b_jonas> GregorR: I think you just can't store science outdoors, they have to be catalogued in libraries and academies
15:24:43 <int-e> Year 27 now btw.
15:29:24 <int-e> Yeah the hunting armor thing is starting to look attractive now.
15:34:54 <esolangs> [[Terrain]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106107&oldid=106106 * Grs * (+335) 
15:38:43 <b_jonas> well now I have over 15000 science storage, so I can research for the next sciences, but of course the science tab has already revealed technologies that take more science storage than that
15:39:17 <fizzie> FireFly: By the way, do you happen to know jurer oynpxpbva fcrphyngvba unccraf? V erfrnepurq gur Oynpxpunva, ohg pna'g svaq nal arj ohggbaf, rira gubhtu lbh'er fhccbfrq gb or noyr gb genqr eryvpf sbe oynpxpbva.
15:40:30 <esolangs> [[Terrain]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106108&oldid=106107 * Grs * (+2275) Truth-machine
15:41:03 <FireFly> I think it's haqre genqvat jvgu yrivngunaf
15:42:17 <fizzie> Ah, okay. Then I guess I can't do it orsber zrrgvat Yrivngunaf, juvpu vf tngrq ol ohvyqvat n Oynpx Clenzvq, juvpu erdhverf haybpxvat Zrtnybznavn svefg. So another of those things I'll look into at year 15000.
15:42:35 <esolangs> [[Terrain]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106109&oldid=106108 * Grs * (+38) Truth-machine is yet unfinished
15:42:50 <esolangs> [[Terrain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106110&oldid=106109 * Grs * (+1) 
15:42:55 <fizzie> I've been thoroughly spoiled by the wiki at this point. :)
15:45:46 <b_jonas> I don't understand this unicorn industry yet, but I think more things connected to it will be revealed later
15:46:45 <b_jonas> so far I can use unicorns only on ohlvat havpbea cnfgherf, juvpu cebqhpr zber havpbeaf naq erqhpr gur xvggraf' abezny sbbq cebqhpgvba
15:47:33 <fizzie> There's zber havpbea fghss uvqqra oruvaq gung bar rnfvyl zvffnoyr ohvyqvat V zragvbarq lrfgreqnl.
15:47:53 <b_jonas> I see
15:48:22 <FireFly> fizzie: ah right... yeah, so that entire branch is gated for you
15:49:07 <b_jonas> that thing actually has a reasonable cost now, so I'll probably invest in revealing it
15:49:27 <b_jonas> not right now but soon enough
15:49:56 <FireFly> oh the kittens wiki looks Weird now :P
15:50:10 <fizzie> Well, ten kiloyears is not so long, it's... 40M real-world seconds, or 462 days. Okay, it's a bit long.
15:50:10 <FireFly> I guess the wiki software was upgraded at some point
15:51:11 -!- b_jonas has set topic: Welcome to the twentieth international hub of esoteric programming language analysis, adoption, anniversary, and kittens! | https://esolangs.org | logs: https://logs.esolangs.org/.
16:04:10 <fizzie> Hmm. Vs lbh (n) trg lbhe cnentba cbvag rirel 1000 pnyraqne lrnef engure guna erny lrnef, naq (o) ner fgvyy ryvtvoyr sbe gur vafnar irefvba 40X lrne npuvrirzrag whfg ol ernpuvat erny lrne 40X, gura V thrff V pbhyq pbzohfg n srj GP'f gb fubegra gung hc.
16:07:47 <FireFly> I don't think both of those hold (but I don't remember very well to be honest)
16:14:28 <b_jonas> huh, V pensgrq n fpnssbyq ohg gur rkcrafvir ohvyqvat vf abg erirnyrq ba gur Obasver gno. qb V arrq gb pnfg n Zrtnyvgu gbb?
16:16:25 <fizzie> b_jonas: Vg pbfgf 50 bs obgu, fb vg zvtug arrq zber bs obgu gb fubj hc. Abg fher rknpgyl.
16:16:52 <b_jonas> ah.
16:17:15 <fizzie> (Naq bar oyhrcevag.)
16:18:37 <b_jonas> well then I'll pensg bar zrtnyvgu gb frr vs gung erirnyf vg, naq vs abg, gura V'yy errinyhngr zl cevbevgvrf. vs gung'f gur pbfg vaqrrq gura V'yy arrq zber jbexfubcf.
16:22:16 <fizzie> FWIW I'm not sure if the thing it unlocks is terribly relevant early on, other than n punapr gb trg bar zber erfbhepr glcr gung tvirf gur +10% unccvarff obbfg ohg vfa'g rngra ol gur terrql pngf.
16:23:32 <b_jonas> the game already revealed another super-expensive thing: gur pbzcraqvhz
16:26:01 <b_jonas> yeah, pensgvat n zrtnyvgu gbb qvqa'g erirny gur rkcrafvir ohvyqvat
16:27:35 <fizzie> Aw. Well, the cost is what it is, and it's not too important now. Qbvat nalguvat jvgu vg gnxrf n ybg bs havpbeaf gbb; ng yrnfg 2500.
16:30:32 <b_jonas> the other expensive thing does promise a relevant bonus, but it's too expensive for now
16:31:49 <b_jonas> I'll look around for what less expensive thing I should go for next
16:36:02 <esolangs> [[Terrain]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106111&oldid=106110 * Grs * (+245) 
16:37:08 <int-e> Oh god, decisions.
17:08:55 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106112&oldid=106082 * Orisphera * (-9) /* Ideas related to esoteric operating systems, esoteric processors and esoteric computers */
17:30:10 <b_jonas> ooh! this technology unlocks multiple things!
17:32:30 <b_jonas> reduces my what? do I even have that?
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17:47:08 <FireFly> :o
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20:01:05 <b_jonas> `? kittens
20:01:07 <HackEso> kittens? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
20:07:57 <int-e> @where kittens
20:07:57 <lambdabot> I know nothing about kittens.
20:11:30 <b_jonas> perlbot kittens is Kittens Game "https://kittensgame.com/", a contagious video game that #esolangs caught in 2022-01
20:11:30 <perlbot> b_jonas: Stored kittens is Kittens Game "https://kittensgame.com/", a contagious video game that #esolangs caught in 2022-01
20:12:01 <b_jonas> perlbot kittens
20:12:01 <perlbot> b_jonas: Kittens Game "https://kittensgame.com/", a contagious video game that #esolangs caught in 2022-01
20:30:59 <fizzie> 2022-01? 
20:31:17 <int-e> it's a long incubation period
20:31:22 <fizzie> I see.
20:33:53 <b_jonas> uh
20:33:54 <b_jonas> `datei
20:33:56 <HackEso> 2023-01-14 20:33:55.573 +0000 UTC January 14 Saturday 2023-W02-6
20:34:02 <b_jonas> yeah, haven't got used to that yet
20:35:21 <b_jonas> perlbot compose @echo fact kittens is @@quote d @fact kittens^^=~s/22/23/r^^
20:35:22 <perlbot> b_jonas: Compose failed to find a plugin named: "Kittens
20:35:50 <b_jonas> perlbot compose @echo fact kittens is @quote d @fact kittens^^=~s/22/23/r^^
20:35:50 <perlbot> b_jonas: Error: unmatched closing parenthesis in compose
20:36:03 <b_jonas> perlbot compose @echo fact kittens is @quote d @fact kittens^=~s/22/23/r^^
20:36:03 <perlbot> b_jonas: fact kittens is "Kittens Game \x22https://kittensgame.com/\x22, a contagious video game that \x23esolangs caught in 2022-01=~s/22/23/r"
20:36:13 <int-e> <3
20:36:14 <b_jonas> perlbot compose @echo fact kittens is @quote d @fact kittens^^=~s/22/23/r^
20:36:14 <perlbot> b_jonas: fact kittens is "Kittens Game \x22https://kittensgame.com/\x22, a contagious video game that \x23esolangs caught in 2022-01"=~s/22/23/r
20:36:50 <int-e> (What is this, quoting for beginners?)
20:36:50 <b_jonas> perlbot compose @echo fact kittens is @eval @quote d @fact kittens^^=~s/22/23/r^^
20:36:51 <perlbot> b_jonas: fact kittens is Kittens Game "https://kittensgame.com/", a contagious video game that #esolangs caught in 2023-01
20:37:01 <b_jonas> perlbot compose @fact kittens is @eval @quote d @fact kittens^^=~s/22/23/r^^
20:37:02 <perlbot> b_jonas: Stored kittens is Kittens Game "https://kittensgame.com/", a contagious video game that #esolangs caught in 2023-01
20:37:11 <b_jonas> that shouldn't have taken so many tries
20:38:14 <b_jonas> perlbot kittesn
20:38:15 <perlbot> b_jonas: No factoid found. Did you mean one of these: [kitties] [kthx] [k thx] [klaxon] [kaitlyn] [bitcoin] [ehtsham] [patogen] [kingemer] [botsnack]
20:38:19 <b_jonas> perlbot kittens
20:38:19 <perlbot> b_jonas: Kittens Game "https://kittensgame.com/", a contagious video game that #esolangs caught in 2023-01
20:38:40 <b_jonas> there's probably already a macro for this, a sedlearn or something
20:39:36 <leah2> oh no
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20:55:06 <b_jonas> apparently a lot of things are locked behind fgrry
20:59:14 <int-e> I probably won't get far in this game... I closed it again in year 31.
21:00:57 <int-e> I was about halfway in my research towards fgrry.
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21:06:31 <int-e> we have pastures but they don't produce fur
21:10:56 <esolangs> [[Cathain]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106113 * Nurdle * (+1893) Created the article
21:13:58 <fizzie> There's a building type that consumes gold and catpower, and produces furs and ivory.
21:14:10 <fizzie> Which is effectively what sending hunters does, except as a passive effect.
21:14:25 <esolangs> [[User:Nurdle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106114&oldid=105469 * Nurdle * (+53) /* Esolangs */
21:15:20 <esolangs> [[User:Nurdle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106115&oldid=106114 * Nurdle * (+109) /* Implementations */
21:15:40 <fizzie> Oh, I guess sending hunters doesn't actually cost any gold.
21:15:54 <fizzie> Anyway.
21:16:40 <fizzie> Maybe the in-universe rationale is, the cats working in the building get paid in gold? Though you'd think hunters have to get paid too. Hmm.
21:18:18 <b_jonas> maybe they're making luxury items, gilded, that are effectively equivalent consumables as furs and ivory, just not made from real hunted animals?
21:18:28 <b_jonas> nah, that would be weird for cats
21:19:16 <int-e> FWIW, https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/kittens-buildings2.png ...I may be a bit too focussed on science. I don't know.
21:20:08 <b_jonas> I'm not hurrying the science right now, I'm doing science slowly and spending most of my resources on buildings to get bonuses
21:20:44 <fizzie> I was pretty focused at going through the science tree, FWIW.
21:20:53 <b_jonas> like I just got enough academies and libraries to have 20_000 science storage space, a bunch of lumber mills, mines, warehouses, and now I want to spend more on workshops
21:21:10 <b_jonas> workshops before warehouses would have been more logical... oh well
21:22:17 <int-e> You're forced into the rest anyway. Some interesting stuff is locked behind 1000 cat power, and other stuff is locked behind getting furs en masse (where I kind of hope steel will help... maybe you get better knifes or something)
21:23:44 <int-e> Eh. I think I'll slowly push this to year 101 and then maybe stop, unless I still find it interesting. I can go to wiki and/or dissect the source code to see what I'm missing.
21:23:56 <fizzie> Can't build more workshops, because the next one would need 20.74M minerals (and 5.19M wood), and my cap is just 18.67M minerals (and 15.54M wood). There's always something.
21:24:03 <fizzie> Guess that's just how it goes though. The storage cap increases from adding buildings are linear, but the price growth is exponential.
21:24:05 <int-e> I don't really enjoy having stuff run constantly in the background.
21:24:16 <int-e> Or being forced to wait, really.
21:25:32 <int-e> I'm not made for this. If it's running I have to check every minute that nothing catastrophic happened. Kittens might die!
21:26:42 <fizzie> I'd just roll back to a previous save if any did die. :) Anyway, as long as all the production rates have a + sign in them even in a cold winter, there's not much that can go wrong.
21:27:09 <int-e> I've had negative food production in every winter so far.
21:28:34 <fizzie> It's probably more optimal to do that, otherwise you waste effort in other seasons, but yeah, it's kind of worrying.
21:29:02 <b_jonas> "locked behind 1000 cat power" => I don't think I can increase catpower storage without admitting a lot more kittens, and I don't want that yet. 
21:29:05 <b_jonas> "
21:29:20 <int-e> fizzie: Oh there's also the fact that I send a party of hunters out every 100 seconds.
21:29:30 <int-e> b_jonas: sme
21:29:33 <int-e> +a
21:30:21 <b_jonas> "locked behind getting furs en masse" => that helps for making parchments. I already did some of that, but you don't need all that much because you can store parchments and manuscripts, I don't have to spend all the furs at the same time. unless there's something else requiring furs other than parchment that I don't know of yet. 
21:30:35 <fizzie> There's a thing that can make a building contribute to the maximum catpower, but it's quite a bit later.
21:30:39 <b_jonas> oh right, it's trade that's locked behind lots of catpower
21:30:58 <int-e> All the parchments I've had went into amphitheatres. I have two.
21:31:38 <int-e> Anyway. The fact is I can't keep this running in the background as is, so I won't get very far unless that changes drastically.
21:31:39 <fizzie> If you want to keep the happiness up but still have a bunch of kittens, amphitheatres are kind of a must-have.
21:32:51 <b_jonas> I researched steel
21:33:12 <fizzie> (Amphitheatres do have a diminishing returns kind of thing going on though.)
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21:35:14 <b_jonas> hmm. will steel let me craft locks so I can build huts or log houses closed to new kittens, used only for storing catpower?
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21:35:31 <b_jonas> I don't want so many new kittens as would be needed for 1000 catpower
21:35:39 <b_jonas> but also I'm not too interested in trade at the moment eithr
21:36:21 <fizzie> So you'd want to build some housing not for anyone to live in, just for investment purposes? Quite... modern.
21:36:28 <int-e> Hmmmmmm. Sell the huts, make log houses instead. (Unrealistic, that's way too much wood.)
21:37:54 <int-e> But, I'd have 150 extra catpower capacity if I did that.
21:38:35 <b_jonas> fizzie: they'd be storehouses. I get enough running water and heating in them so they can later easily get reconfigured to living quarters without having to tear down everything, but they'd be storehouses for now.
21:38:56 <int-e> b_jonas: I think the idea is that the power comes from the kittens though.
21:39:10 <int-e> The houses are just a proxy for that.
21:39:39 <int-e> It's very political, singles are more powerful than couples taken as two individuals.
21:40:03 <b_jonas> hmm
21:40:16 <b_jonas> so it charges the kitten's fur with electricity and that stores the power?
21:40:22 <b_jonas> they're capacitors
21:40:27 <int-e> hehe
21:40:47 <int-e> electrostatic charges can be very painful... beware
21:40:55 <int-e> err, discharges rather
21:41:24 <b_jonas> ok, so I researched steel, but I can't use it until I get the coal furnace improvement in workshop
21:41:53 <int-e> That... makes sense, technologically.
21:42:18 <int-e> (I don't think I've seen that upgrade.)
21:42:21 <b_jonas> yes, but was coal furnace even unlocked before steel?
21:42:26 <int-e> But I imagine you're 20 years ahead of me or so.
21:43:26 <b_jonas> I had a lot of things unlocked that require steel, and at least one thing that required coal, so I was looking for coal, and I don't think that was unlocked, but maybe I just wasn't looking
21:44:09 <fizzie> Yeah, I don't think you can get any coal before researching Steel.
21:45:10 <b_jonas> I've had things that cost gears unlocked for a while, and even gears was unlocked, but I couldn't make them without steam
21:46:01 <int-e> I imagine that's "steel". Actually, I've seen gears, so I know it's steel.
21:46:24 <int-e> Though I guess that without steel they *are* vaporware.
21:46:26 <b_jonas> yes, s/without steam/without steel/
21:49:29 <b_jonas> also I have fgrnzjbexf unlocked, and that's not usable without coal, but it won't be usable even with coal and steel available, because it needs oyhrcevagf. I think I get that from researching cevagvat cerff, but I'm not entirely sure because the description for that says it lets you nhgbzngvpnyyl cevag znahfpevcgf, which is odd because I can already make znahfpevcgf, and so I'm confused what the 
21:49:35 <b_jonas> relation between znahfpevcgf and oyhrcevagf is.
21:50:25 <int-e> if the effects are similar (I haven't seen oyhrcevagf) maybe the diminishing effects are separate?
21:50:42 <b_jonas> now I have several different upgrades unlocked in the workshop and I'll have to pick from among them. after coal furnace presumably. some of them look reasonable, some look very expensive.
21:51:08 <fizzie> Yeah, the cevagvat cerff just makes znahfpevcgf. It just gives you them automatically, from nowhere, instead of crafting them.
21:51:14 <b_jonas> int-e: but it's not just the side effects that I care about, oyhrcevagf are used as direct cost in the fgrnzjbexf
21:51:17 <int-e> I have to make a policy choice and I don't like it.
21:51:43 <b_jonas> fizzie: but if that's not it, then how do I get oyhrcevagf?
21:51:53 <fizzie> Mostly by trade, early on.
21:52:00 <b_jonas> ok
21:52:16 <int-e> Ah, so a bit like unicorns?
21:52:22 <b_jonas> so I'm not just missing a button hidden somewhere, and they definitely aren't free like Factorio blueprints
21:52:41 <fizzie> Any trade (with anyone) can occasinally give you one oyhrcevag.
21:52:42 <esolangs> [[Cathain]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106116&oldid=106113 * Nurdle * (-121) fixed the output
21:52:43 <int-e> "You have to do that weird thing that has no immediate use, otherwise you're not going to get this other thing that's not even mentioned)
21:52:46 <int-e> "
21:53:16 <b_jonas> yeah, "You have a small chance of getting rare resources.", says trade
21:53:27 <int-e> (The similarity is quite direct: Any hunt will occasionally give you a unicorn.)
21:54:04 <b_jonas> ok, I'll ignore the fgrnzjbexf for now then, and concentrate on the workshop uprgades, as well as buying a few more workshops
21:54:23 <fizzie> You can in fact eventually craft oyhrcevagf in the workshop, but it's quite expensive, and not actually unlocked until approximately halfway through the tech tree.
21:54:25 <b_jonas> I'm going to need more and more crafting so it's worth to buy workshops
21:54:53 <b_jonas> "approximately halfway through the tech tree." => I have no indication of how long the tech tree is so I don't know what that means
21:56:32 <b_jonas> hmm wait, there's another workshop upgrade that can produce coal
21:56:36 <b_jonas> deep mining
21:56:59 <fizzie> Yeah, those are both unlocked by the steel tech, you get two ways to make coal.
21:56:59 <b_jonas> I probably want both
21:57:08 <b_jonas> hehe, the flavor text for Deep Mining is fun
21:57:23 <int-e> does it allude to scamcoins?
21:57:47 <b_jonas> no
21:58:52 <b_jonas> Factorio and Mindustry both give you two ways to get coal, and Factorio Industrial Revolution 3 gives you three ways, so this is a popular arrangement
22:00:49 <fizzie> If I read the boxes right, my base coal production is 1.53/s from mines, 3.51/s from smelters, and 18.24/s from a third thing, plus a couple of general production bonuses giving a total of 8660.18/s.
22:01:49 <fizzie> It's really those multiplicative bonuses that tend to make the numbers meaningfully bigger.
22:02:00 <b_jonas> (technically in IR one of the three ways gives you charcoal, which is not quite the same as coal)
22:02:33 <b_jonas> yes, this game is very much dominated by all the bonuses
22:05:56 <fizzie> int-e: By the way, you don't *have* to make policy choices, you can just leave them hanging.
22:06:21 <fizzie> I still have one (from the 5000 culture cost tier) where I've picked neither option.
22:06:36 <b_jonas> fizzie: that's also what I'm thinking, I don't like almost any of the policies that are offered to me
22:09:46 <int-e> fizzie: Hmm, for liberty/traditionalism there seems to be no downside, except for blocking the alternative.
22:10:09 <fizzie> Yeah, I think many of them (at least later on) are just straight bonuses, with no downsides, where the only reasons why you might not pick one would be what you might call "roleplaying". Just because you can only pick one beneficial thing doesn't mean you shouldn't still pick one.
22:10:49 <int-e> I did punt on strip mining and deforestation.
22:11:19 <int-e> (That's the earliest decision you can make.)
22:11:28 <FireFly> fizzie: still requires making a choice :p
22:11:32 <FireFly> (that's permanent for that run)
22:11:36 <b_jonas> fizzie: yeah, Stoicism is the one that's silly from the role-playing perspective
22:12:04 <fizzie> Yes. Also some of them have "downstream" effects in the policy tree, in terms of what you can pick later on. Which is a bit rude.
22:12:17 <int-e> fizzie: exactly!
22:12:38 <int-e> I don't mind the choice so much as the downward effect of reducing later choices.
22:12:43 <int-e> err, downstream
22:13:11 <fizzie> There's also one policy that costs 7500 culture, has the description text of "Has no effect", and to my knowledge in fact has no effect.
22:13:13 <int-e> Though story-wise this does make sense.
22:13:21 <fizzie> Other than of course subtracting 7500 culture.
22:13:29 <int-e> But it hinders exploration.
22:13:35 <b_jonas> and locking out other 7500 cultures I presume
22:13:42 <fizzie> There are no others.
22:13:48 <fizzie> It's just on its own.
22:14:15 <b_jonas> fizzie: are you sure? sometimes cultures are not unlocked at the same time, and that's the case for the third 2000 cost one next to strip mining and clear cutting
22:14:23 <b_jonas> s/cultures/policies/
22:15:22 <fizzie> Yes. I mean, later versions of the game could hypothetically change that. But at least according to the wiki, it has no counterparts, and also no effect.
22:15:58 <FireFly> I should pick some policies
22:16:05 <fizzie> I did still "choose" it at the point when I just naturally had sufficient culture for other reasons.
22:16:33 <b_jonas> a lot of these policies are annoying because the role-playing aspect clashes with what the mechanics want to make me choose
22:18:22 <fizzie> The zebra thing is the only one I've not picked either option for. Although it'd be nice if they had a "no effect except blocking the other two" choice for that, just to get rid of the button.
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22:22:12 <b_jonas> huh, so Deep Mining has mines produce coal without kittens working in it
22:22:22 <b_jonas> the miner kittens only mine the minerals
22:22:32 <b_jonas> only the shiny things
22:22:33 <int-e> very mechanical
22:22:52 <int-e> I mean the coal mining must be very mechanical, perhaps even automated.
22:23:11 <fizzie> There's also one technology thing that gets unlocked relatively early on (after the thing that requires 20K science), and then it itself requires 650K of science and 5 of a thing that will take a very long time to get to, meaning that button will just hang out there, teasing.
22:23:14 <b_jonas> coal powered probably
22:23:34 <fizzie> (Pretty sure that's really there for subsequent, post-reset runs, for people keeping resources from past runs.)
22:24:25 <b_jonas> it makes sense, Catnip fields, Amphitheatres, Unic. Pastures all produce resources without kittens driving them
22:24:47 <b_jonas> and I think Pastures effectively do too, though it's not quite clear if they do or if they give a per kitten production
22:27:15 <FireFly> fizzie: I think that's an intentional tease that has one question whether it's obtainable :p
22:29:59 <fizzie> Possibly that, too. But AIUI gur pelcgbgurbybtl hctenqrf fgvpx nebhaq cbfg-erfrg (ohg gur pelcgbgurbybtl grpu vgfrys qbrfa'g), fb V jnf guvaxvat vg'f nyfb gurer fb lbh pna haybpx vg rneyl jvgu lbhe fnirq eryvpf.
22:30:53 <FireFly> ah yeah, probably
22:31:09 <FireFly> (and that's accurate)
22:34:28 <FireFly> I'm slowly approaching one of the first big walls in the game :P
22:34:35 <FireFly> kinda
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22:42:51 <b_jonas> also one of the workshop upgrades that got revealed costs 25 scaffolds
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22:43:21 <b_jonas> and the scary thing is that that only seems very expensive to me, not so expensive that I should just ignore that upgrade
22:44:04 <b_jonas> I may run out of workspace upgrades so I have to consider that, depending on what Theology unlocks
22:47:16 <fizzie> That's in fact the thing that unlocks the other thing that you can't unlock in a long while. (Among many other things.)
22:49:19 <b_jonas> wait, Theology costs 35 manuscripts
22:49:30 <b_jonas> that sounds like I won't get that until printing press
22:50:46 <b_jonas> most things that I have access to now are very expensive, a few are just expensive
23:06:48 <fizzie> Yeah, they start adding more things than just pure science into the technologies.
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23:13:43 <b_jonas> yeah, the pasture says "Catnip demand reduction: -0.5%" so it's likely per kitten
23:14:14 <b_jonas> I wonder if that means that 200 pastures would make the kittens not eat at all. but maybe the 200th has an infinite cost.
23:17:26 <int-e> the unicorn pastures also reduce food consumption
23:18:25 <int-e> b_jonas: Also, if you get 201, will the kittens start producing food?
23:19:54 <fizzie> Most things like that have a "diminishing returns" adjustment applied at some point, with (situation-specific) caps at which point it starts/ends.
23:21:30 <fizzie> So it'll work the way that up to (for example) 75% the actual effect is the same as the one shown, but then it'll start to scale so that at "100%" it's actually a bit under 90%, and it'll approach (but never reach) 100%.
23:22:09 <fizzie> Not that that really matters for unicorn pastures, because their cost in unicorns really ramps up, and the benefit in catnip demand reduction really isn't all that relevant after some point.
23:22:55 <b_jonas> fizzie: no, I mean this for normal pastures, not unicorn pastures
23:23:20 <b_jonas> but you have a point, unicorn pastures provide the same bonus, so you need less than 200 normal pastures
23:23:50 <int-e> b_jonas: I rather suspect the author has done the math
23:24:34 <fizzie> Oh, right. I think pastures have the same diminishing returns thing, though they're definitely more relevant than unicorn pastures, and the price ramps up much more slowly.
23:24:54 <fizzie> I don't remember how many pastures I had at the peak, but I think it was somewhere between 100-200.
23:25:29 <int-e> One easy thing to do would be to apply all reductions multiplicatively.
23:25:46 <fizzie> (They're one of those buildings that has an "upgrade", that I at least postponed for quite a while because of the tradeoffs. The upgraded building doesn't do anything to catnip demand.)
23:26:14 <int-e> But then you don't get round numbers, and there are plenty of different ways to limit the reduction.
23:26:44 <fizzie> As for unicorn pastures, they definitely have a higher-than-normal price multiplier, because I've only built 25 of them, and the next one already costs 1.63 million 'corns.
23:27:09 <b_jonas> by the way, I got both coal techs, plus I now have 26 workshops, and that's where I put the game away for today
23:27:44 <int-e> Which year are you at?
23:28:17 <b_jonas> tomorrow I'll buy a few more workshops, think of how many more cats I want to admit to the village (it's hard because I don't dare to just kick them out or starve them if it's too many), and look at which of the expensive or very expensive things I want to get
23:28:45 <fizzie> Death is the only way out for kittens, I believe.
23:28:49 <b_jonas> int-e: year 129, but some of that was just leaving the game running last night even though it just filled up everything to the storage limit and then did nothing
23:29:21 <int-e> Yeah that's part of what I meant when I said that the early game isn't much of an idle game.
23:29:25 <b_jonas> and a false start at the start of the game where I somehow had 8 kittens total starve 
23:29:42 <int-e> It kind of wants your attention... hmm... every 5 minutes or so where I am.
23:29:48 <b_jonas> int-e: yeah
23:31:03 <int-e> I kind of want a version of this game that lets you skip ahead to the next event, keeping track of the time you *would* have taken.
23:31:15 <b_jonas> it promises to be more of an idle game later, with Something Automation and Steamworks perhaps
23:31:59 <fizzie> It takes a bit, but you can definitely make it so that it'll at least keep increasing all your craftable stuff without paying any attention to it.
23:33:27 <fizzie> (And since those don't have caps, it's not "wasted".)
23:33:51 <b_jonas> part of the annoyance is that I want less than a whole kitten on hunting, and the catpower storage limit is too low so I have to swap jobs quickly
23:40:55 <b_jonas> so yes, that building that you mention earlier might help in the future
23:45:21 <fizzie> Yes. Though not for putting a fractional kitten for catpower generation. But by adjusting the number of those buildings, you can use up the catpower generated.
23:48:42 <b_jonas> yep, it's another outlet to spend catpower so I can keep one whole cat on hunting for a longer time without filling up the storage
23:49:23 <b_jonas> I could of course also spend a ton of furs on manuscripts, but it doesn't seem like that's worth now
23:49:43 <b_jonas> right now I'd prefer to have half a cat on hunting and the other half on the more common tasks like mining or woodcutting

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10:53:00 * FireFly constructing Bofreingbevrf
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13:35:55 <b_jonas> whoa. I have 26 workshops, and one more is not possible right now because of my minerals storage capacity, even though I've been building warehouses and even a barn. the minerals storage limit never came up so far.
13:39:15 <b_jonas> I need to go for the printing press now because a lot of things cost manuscripts, including Theology, Temple
13:41:34 <b_jonas> heck this printing press is very expensive. I might be missing somethign
13:41:55 <b_jonas> maybe I just need more smelters
13:51:03 <b_jonas> hmm, this still says I need over three hours to get enough coal for printing press
13:51:35 <b_jonas> does that mean I should increase my mineral storage even further so I can build more workshops?
13:52:29 <b_jonas> yeah, I should probably go for reinforced warehouses first
13:54:39 <FireFly> more storage and more workshops never hurt
13:54:57 <b_jonas> my minerals lstorage limit is 15_040
13:55:04 <FireFly> but idk how much printing press would help over crafting manuscripts at that point
13:55:36 <b_jonas> but yes, that's what I have to do. I can get the Reinforced Warehouses workshop upgrade in less than an hour, and that'll increase minerals storage significantly, and then I can build a few more warehouses and barns
13:55:51 <fizzie> I imagine it helps if you plan to idle a lot.
13:56:40 <b_jonas> I don't see how I'd get enough fur to craft so many manuscripts
13:57:08 <b_jonas> though I guess at this point I should consider increasing my population a bit too
13:57:13 <FireFly> probably
13:57:27 <FireFly> how many kittens do you have?
13:58:01 <FireFly> happiness shouldn't really be that much of an issue at that point I don't think
13:59:07 <b_jonas> yeah, I can increase my population. I have 11 only and I want to be conservative because I don't want to have to kill kittens. 
13:59:44 <fizzie> Hmm, these kitties are 276% happy, I think that's changed from last I saw it and I'm not entirely sure why.
14:00:07 <FireFly> b_jonas: yeah, you probably want a lot more kittens than that.. as long as you have some farmers I don't see why the worry
14:00:29 <b_jonas> I don't know how overpopulated they'll feel
14:00:34 <FireFly> you can definitely still be conservative and ensure positive catnip even in a cold winter if you want to be sure to not kill anyone off
14:00:39 <FireFly> mm fair
14:00:51 <FireFly> amphitheatres should help address that
14:01:09 <b_jonas> I don't need positive catnip in the winter. I have 50_000 catnip storage, I can survive more than a winter with no catnip income
14:01:23 <b_jonas> most of the time I don't have farmers at all
14:02:37 <fizzie> I have 56.45M catnip storage and still keep it positive in all circumstances. :)
14:03:04 <FireFly> I have.. 55 kittens now and 30 workshops/catnip limit 62.5K (but I think maybe a bit further ahead wrt science)
14:03:11 <b_jonas> I'll just have to remember not to go as low when refining catnip
14:04:15 <FireFly> you're probably better off to build some more huts and just allocate some woodcutters over refining catnip at that point (and probably add some farmers to compensate for more kittens, esp since farmers aren't affected by season/weather)
14:05:14 <b_jonas> yeah, I just built more huts. and I do get the majority of my wood from woodcutters, but I refine catnip because it reaches the max storage quickly and it's pointless to just let it go to waste
14:05:34 <FireFly> yeah fair
14:05:52 <FireFly> I've been doing that but only down to maybe 30K to have a pretty big safe buffer
14:06:07 <b_jonas> I have 16 kittens now, they're at 112% happiness with furs and ivory and consume 63/s food then, which means max storage catnip is enough for close to two years. I'll see in a moment what happiness they get with no furs and no ivory.
14:06:57 <FireFly> each of those should add +10%
14:07:02 <FireFly> well, percentage points
14:07:31 <fizzie> So 102% with one, and 92% with none.
14:07:42 <b_jonas> the extra loghouses have the secondary advantage of a bit more catpower storage
14:07:47 <b_jonas> (I built loghouses, not huts)
14:07:52 <int-e> none being one, because unicorns always count
14:08:06 <int-e> (unless, maybe, you see the unicorn pastures and spend all the unicorns somehow)
14:08:06 <fizzie> Right.
14:08:12 <int-e> see -> sell
14:08:15 <FireFly> hovering over the orange happiness thing should give you the breakdown
14:08:35 <fizzie> "Rare resources: +99%"
14:08:36 <b_jonas> by the way, should I be promoting kittens more often? mine are only rank 1 and rank 2
14:08:59 <b_jonas> orange happiness thing where?
14:09:14 <FireFly> in the top bar, where it says 112%
14:09:19 <b_jonas> I'll have more gold now because I'm mass smelting
14:09:22 <b_jonas> ah
14:09:28 <FireFly> with an outline of a cat (that used to be saying (:3) in a previous version, heh)
14:09:33 <b_jonas> thank you
14:10:00 <b_jonas> anyway, yes, 91% without furs
14:10:07 <fizzie> The production tooltips still use "(:3) Village".
14:10:07 <b_jonas> so they aren't too overpopulated
14:10:55 <FireFly> it'll probably quickly go down as you get more kittens, but amphitheatres should also quickly counter that if you try to build some of those
14:11:25 <FireFly> with my 55 kittens I have 118% happiness currently (penalty base: -104%, penalty mitigated: 75% -> population penalty: -29%)
14:11:47 <fizzie> My 276% is from base 100% + buildings 70% + rare resources 99% - population 540% + mitigated 539% + environment 8%.
14:12:00 <b_jonas> I'll go with just 16 kittens now, I can still more easily attract more later than send them away
14:12:06 <FireFly> that's fair
14:12:32 <FireFly> I'm trying to convince  mroenf  to give me  gvgnavhz
14:12:40 <b_jonas> now I just have to pay attention to all the crafting
14:12:58 <FireFly> (to be honest, that's probably parseable even without de-rot13, or at least inferrabel)
14:13:00 <FireFly> inferrable*
14:13:08 <b_jonas> probably some trade thing
14:13:43 <fizzie> FireFly: I've finally got mroenf gb or arhgeny, abj gung vg ernyyl qbrfa'g znxr zhpu bs n qvssrerapr.
14:14:37 <FireFly> oh I didn't know it's possible to get them to that point, I think that might also be new
14:15:03 <fizzie> I think it's from having sufficient tradeposts and/or embassies, not sure which.
14:15:16 <fizzie> I guess I could cvpx Mroen Eryngvbaf: Oryyvpbfvgl whfg gb fcvgr gurz abj.
14:15:26 <FireFly> I think I saw the embassies, but only when previously like, taking a look to see if anything changed since I played properly
14:15:41 <FireFly> so I'm still a bit fuzzy on the mechanics of those
14:15:49 <FireFly> fizzie: :p
14:16:37 <b_jonas> also don't tempt me, I'm trying to not learn any rot13, just as I'm trying to not learn the digits and letters of the vision test charts, and both are hard
14:17:19 <FireFly> oops
14:18:12 <b_jonas> they're at least no longer using the 42 chart for serious purposes on me anymore, which helps, but the new vision test chart also only has 30 letters and 30 numbers, 10+10 in each of three sizes, so that doesn't sound like I can keep not learning it for my whole lifetime
14:18:35 <b_jonas> hopefully by then technology gets cheaper so they can get new sets of letters and digits in the projectsr
14:21:57 <fizzie> Back home the vision tests all used this thing which only contains the letter E, but it's in the four possible orientations.
14:22:14 <fizzie> And then you just say "up", "down", "left", "right", depending.
14:22:31 <fizzie> I guess you could still learn the directions though.
14:22:55 <fizzie> Assuming they don't have a set of differently randomized ones.
14:23:06 <b_jonas> yes, there's a set of three charts with the same layout as the 42, one is the 42 one with digits, one with letters, and one with hands in three different rotations (so young children that don't yet know digits or even left and right can show the directions on their hand)
14:23:11 <int-e> . o O ( especially if you have trouble keeping left and right apart )
14:23:14 <b_jonas> forks or epsilons really
14:23:38 <b_jonas> all three have been used for decades
14:23:56 <int-e> Isn't there also a circle-with-gap one?
14:25:04 <b_jonas> not with the same layout as these as far as I recall
14:27:57 <fizzie> "These include Snellen Chart, LogMAR Chart, Jaeger Chart, E Chart, and Landolt C Chart."
14:28:15 <fizzie> The last one is apparently circle-with-a-gap.
14:29:26 <int-e> Ah that explains the C name.
14:37:14 <b_jonas> am I missing something for how to increase my coal production? I don't have a steamworks yet
14:37:59 <b_jonas> I have both coal-producing Workshop upgrades
14:38:10 <b_jonas> I guess coal is just slow
14:41:52 <b_jonas> I could buy even more smelters I guess, but I have 17 now
14:44:12 <b_jonas> more workshops will help I guess, since the productivity applies twice to gears but only once to plates
14:44:37 <fizzie> It's pretty slow. Most of my coal production is from not-a-building, but that gets unlocked later.
14:45:59 <fizzie> (Also turning steamworks on has a really hefty penalty on coal production.)
14:46:21 <b_jonas> I don't have a steamworks yet, it seems like I couldn't use it yet
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15:08:48 <b_jonas> fizzie: I can understand why you want to keep catnip production positive: the crafting section of the left column has a button to refine all your catnip to wood, so if I clicked that in the winter that would be an almost instant starve all kittens button. (almost instant because technically I'd have up to 50 catnip left, so I may have more than a second of grace time to start farming)
15:24:24 <FireFly> at some point it's just a nice insurance to put like one or two kittens on farming when it's enough to sustain your hundreds of kittens
15:24:30 <FireFly> even if there's a slight "waste"
15:25:30 <b_jonas> yeah, but right now I'd need 3 out of 16 kittens to guarantee that
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15:33:36 <b_jonas> bam! Reinforced Warehouses
15:37:51 <fizzie> Oh, hey, it's year 6008, welcome to the new millennium.
15:50:08 <int-e> b_jonas: . o O ( aka storage tanks )
15:51:32 <fizzie> Ohh, it's the leader's trait that the little symbol in the tab titles is indicating.
15:51:38 <fizzie> I've pretty much permanently had a scientist leader, and was wondering why there's a small atom symbol next to the "Science" tab.
15:52:34 <fizzie> Now I switched to something else because there isn't really any science to buy, except for one upgrade that costs 25M science that I can't afford any time soon.
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16:06:43 <b_jonas> I had to produce extra iron with the coal, so I'm now buying two Lumber Mills
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16:11:04 <b_jonas> then I'll buy workshops now that I have the larger mineral storage limit, and might also buy a barn, and then once the warehouses make crafting cheaper I'll buy more warehouses 
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16:19:18 <b_jonas> I guess I may as well hunt a bit more and craft some manuscripts, since my culture storage is full
17:01:39 <fizzie> I've got culture pretty much permanently at cap, with culture production wasted, since there isn't really an obvious sink for it.
17:03:47 <int-e> (Nor a way to limit its production.)
17:03:58 <fizzie> Incidentally, speaking of those percent effects, I've built 83 tradeposts, each gives -4% reduction in furs/ivory/spice consumption, shift-hovering on the building indicates all three are "X demand reduction: -332.00%", but the kittens are still consuming a little bit.
17:04:15 <fizzie> Instead of having started paradoxically to produce those things.
17:06:56 <b_jonas> oops, I forgot that steel production also unlocks this Steel Axe upgrade. I should have researched that long ago.
17:07:41 <b_jonas> well, not very long ago, but earlier today, before Reinforced Warehouses and Steel Armour
17:51:33 <b_jonas> nice! this is the first time in game that I have barns maxed out in that I can't buy another barn because the wood storage capacity isn't enough for the next one
17:52:09 <b_jonas> I think this is only temporary because I can still buy warehouses
17:52:32 <b_jonas> but also now I have enough storage space to buy yet another workshop
17:52:36 <b_jonas> I have 28 right now
17:55:29 <b_jonas> ok, so next I want to build workshops and warehouses and buy Printing Press
17:55:34 <b_jonas> the upgrade that is
18:00:02 <b_jonas> er... maybe I shouldn't have waited till the start of spring to buy the catnip field?
18:00:50 <b_jonas> it didn't go bad, but I should think before I click that button
18:29:13 <b_jonas> warehouses are technically infinite because they're built from resources that don't have a storage limit
18:31:35 <b_jonas> but of course their price rises so there's a practical limit
19:11:09 <b_jonas> drat, I misclicked
19:11:22 <b_jonas> sold a bunch of smelters
19:12:10 <b_jonas> now I can see why the options has a setting to hide the sell button
19:12:45 <FireFly> there's rarely a reason to sell buildings, so I just keep the button disabled apart from the off-chance that I want it for some reason
19:13:04 <FireFly> you might be able to undo the sale though?
19:13:05 <FireFly> not sure
19:13:12 <b_jonas> you can undo only one step
19:13:15 <FireFly> ah yeah
19:13:25 <b_jonas> I was trying to click on the minus button several times to turn off some smelters
19:13:51 <b_jonas> doesn't matter, they aren't too expensive
19:14:06 <b_jonas> not the worst misclick
19:14:18 <b_jonas> ok I bought all of them back now
19:17:40 <FireFly> that was quick
19:17:56 <b_jonas> selling them does return part of the cost
19:18:09 <b_jonas> I think I sold five or six, and could immediately buy back like half of it
19:18:35 <b_jonas> I had 17 total and that's what I bought back up to
19:19:03 <b_jonas> anyway, I'm starting to collect coal and steel for the expensive Print Works upgrade now
19:19:27 <b_jonas> this will take more than an hour for the steel
19:20:00 <b_jonas> also the coal storage limit is low so I have to spend it on steel regularly
19:21:27 <esolangs> [[Post-Unified HQ9+]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106122&oldid=105999 * Ais523 * (-31) is usable for programming because +-,.<>[] all have the same functionality as in brainfuck, thus it's trivial to compile brainfuck programs into this language
19:24:01 <b_jonas> my kittens are now all at least rank 2
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20:43:06 <esolangs> [[User:Nurdle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106123&oldid=106115 * Nurdle * (+15) /* Esolangs */
21:04:15 <b_jonas> ok, I've got the Printing Press research, but I can't use it until I get a blueprint from trade
21:04:26 <b_jonas> so I have to look into trade now, I haven't done any of that yet
21:10:27 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Fallow64 *  New user account
21:16:24 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106124&oldid=106086 * Fallow64 * (+144) me!
21:16:37 <b_jonas> hmm, I must have misclicked on Log House while trying to build academies because I suddenly have 17 kittens
21:17:57 <esolangs> [[Trivial brainfuck substitution]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106125&oldid=105737 * Fallow64 * (+1) typo: changed "replace" to past tense
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21:46:15 <b_jonas> hehe, I found a minor bug
21:47:11 <b_jonas> I built a warehouse, which raised my mineral storage limit enough that I can now collect for the next workshop (I have 30), but the workshop button remained red text until I switched away and back to bonfire
21:48:32 <int-e> hmm did you pawse?
21:48:40 <b_jonas> no, I didn't try pawse
21:49:04 <b_jonas> also why is that spelled pawse instead of paws? isn't it paws traditionally since Lemmings?
21:49:16 <b_jonas> hmm wait, Lemmings doesn't actually spell it out, it just has a paws icon
21:51:02 <int-e> wait, is that why lemmings had that button
21:53:03 <b_jonas> yes
22:05:34 <b_jonas> ok, so now I just have to trade until I get a blueprint
22:06:51 <b_jonas> I got spice
22:06:55 <b_jonas> from trade
22:14:31 <b_jonas> hmm, I wonder if I should invest in a temple
22:20:25 <b_jonas> I probably should.
22:24:56 <b_jonas> do trading posts make it more likely to get rare resources from trade?
22:26:46 <b_jonas> heck, so I need 1 blueprint to build the (first) Steamworks, and 5 more blueprints to research High Pressure Engine
22:27:17 <b_jonas> also lots of more manuscripts
22:33:25 <fizzie> I don't think tradeposts affect the blueprint or spice success rate, or the blueprint amount (it seems to always stay at 1), but the trading efficiency they boost might give you more spice per trade.
22:35:16 <b_jonas> I bought a temple and will buy a few more amphitheatres
22:35:35 <b_jonas> then I'll go grind all the culture and fur and science that I need for Theology
22:36:09 <b_jonas> I'm leaving the trade for blueprint to after that
22:36:49 <b_jonas> Theology might open up something new of course
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22:41:34 <b_jonas> current stats: 17 kittens in village. year 170. buildings: 77 catnip field, 32 pasture, 30 aqueduct, 5 hut, 7 log house, 37 library, 29 academy, 11 barn, 27 warehouse, 30 mine, 27 lumber mill, 0 steamworks, 17 smelter, 8 amphitheatre, 1 temple, 31 workshop, 4 tradepost, 12 unic. pasture. I have no policies, all science before Theology, many workshop updates where the missing ones shown are: Titanium 
22:41:40 <b_jonas> barns (needs titanium), Ironwood huts (needs much more science storage), Workshop automation (I'll be able to get this soon enough but currently have no need of it), High pressure engine (needs 5 blueprints).
22:42:52 <b_jonas> ok, now I need to create 19 more manuscripts for Theology. the craft productivity bonus from the 31 workshops will help here.
22:44:09 <fizzie> https://zem.fi/tmp/buildings.png but it's of course heavily spoilerrific.
22:44:37 <fizzie> Oh, it's a cold winter going on in the screenshot.
22:45:33 <b_jonas> yeah, those are nice hard numbers
22:45:51 <b_jonas> eh, cold winters aren't that har
22:45:54 <b_jonas> aren't that rare
22:46:20 <b_jonas> fungot, your previous answer wasn't satisfying, so let's try again. compared to typical lions, how dangerous is a pack of carillions?
22:46:20 <fungot> b_jonas: we could add a test ( or a hash table using its location in memory is found to be effective. for bipolar disorder they've used even bigger doses.
22:47:03 <fizzie> There's a pub hereabouts called The Cat's Back, just noticed recently while walking past it their upstairs function room is called The Lion's Den.
22:47:22 <fizzie> The thing about The Cat's Back, though, is that despite the name, they don't have a pub cat.
22:47:36 <fizzie> In fact I think they advertise themselves as dog-friendly.
22:47:44 <b_jonas> the cat has them instead?
22:47:46 <b_jonas> oh...
22:47:52 <fizzie> (Though I guess that's fair enough, some cats are friendly to dogs.)
22:48:55 <b_jonas> oh heck this is the annoying part, I have to click on the send 8 hunters button and then the buy all parchments button about every minute, because with all 17 kittens hunting, the 825 cat power fills up in like 70 seconds
22:49:15 <b_jonas> I mean I could parallelize it so half of the cats research science, so it's self-inflicted annoyance
22:51:41 <fizzie> The building that kind-of obsoletes hunting (though I think you still get a better (furs+ivory)/catpower efficiency from hunting, at least to start with) is three science updates away from Theology, if you go straight there (of course you can't tell in advance the direction).
22:52:04 <b_jonas> wait, I can stop, I have enough parchment
22:52:15 <b_jonas> I've had enough parchment for a while in fact
22:52:18 <b_jonas> I just wasn't paying attention
22:52:33 <b_jonas> I made 55 extra
22:52:52 <b_jonas> now I just have to wait for the culture, which is kind of slow 
22:53:09 <b_jonas> oh right, I should buy extra temples then
22:53:22 <b_jonas> or... hmm
22:53:33 <b_jonas> I'm not sure if a second one would help
22:56:26 <b_jonas> meh, it's worth for the long term anyway, I'll get a second temple
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23:08:46 <b_jonas> ok, so I got a second temple, but of course since I spent half my manuscripts, I need to wait just as much for the culture until I get theology
23:11:38 <b_jonas> ok, so I'm waiting for culture, and in the meantime I'll try the trade randomness
23:11:48 <b_jonas> "Griffins hate you for no reason" typical
23:12:01 <b_jonas> at least they didn't *kill* any of my envoy
23:13:23 <fizzie> If you trade with a friendly race, sometimes they're all "X think your kittens are adorable".
23:13:45 <fizzie> Which I can identify with.
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23:22:46 <b_jonas> they gave me spice again
23:24:28 <b_jonas> I'll try a Tempus Fugit
23:25:11 <b_jonas> er I don't understand
23:25:17 <b_jonas> where do I see the status of the Temus Fugit?
23:25:43 <b_jonas> ah
23:25:55 <b_jonas> I have to click on the on/off button, not the Temus Fugit button
23:28:38 <fizzie> Yeah. It collects temporal flux when you've paused the game, and then you can spend it to effectively speed up time (although I think it's maybe just a production bonus?) to get some of that back.
23:28:54 <b_jonas> yeah, just the UI is confusing
23:29:35 <b_jonas> BLUEPRINT!
23:30:12 <fizzie> There's a different offline progression thing that's toggleable from the options menu, which I've only read about, not turned on, since I've pretty much just kept the game running since I learned of it.
23:30:23 <b_jonas> I got a blueprint, so I'll be able to build the steamworks. I'm definitely going for Theology irst though
23:31:53 <fizzie> But AIUI when the offline progression is turned on, when you get back to the game from it being paused or closed, you'll get the regular resource production you've "missed" (up to a cap).
23:32:16 <fizzie> Though I don't know if it applies to craftable stuff; if not, it's kind of pointless, since everything would probably just hit the resource caps.
23:36:33 <b_jonas> also hey look, Ziggurat is now revealed
23:36:46 <b_jonas> and it also costs a blueprint
23:38:02 <b_jonas> and now the Griffins give me a second blueprint
23:38:17 <b_jonas> they also cheated me out of the iron that we agreed on several times, but I don't care, I don't need iron right now
23:38:45 <b_jonas> I didn't even bother to send envoys in the months when they give the most iron
23:41:05 <b_jonas> "Your kittens return empty-pawed"
23:41:19 <b_jonas> at one point they also gave me spice only with no iron
23:41:32 <b_jonas> also I'll get Theology in two minutes
23:46:16 <b_jonas> I got Theology. my temple now produces faith.
23:46:45 <b_jonas> also there's a religion tab with a "Praise the sun!" button

2023-01-16:

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00:05:43 <b_jonas> so anyway, the Theology gives me faith and worship, which don't seem to be immediately useful, plus opened up two researches, an expensive and a horribly expensive one, even the expensive one requires more science storage space than I currently have
00:06:43 <b_jonas> so now I have to produce all the steel to build a Steamworks
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00:09:20 <b_jonas> wait!
00:09:23 <b_jonas> I missed something
00:09:31 <b_jonas> I can assign kittens as priest
00:10:46 <fizzie> I think I didn't focus too much on priests, but there's definitely useful stuff down the line of converting your faith into worship by praising.
00:11:10 <fizzie> (Reaching specific levels of worship will unlock more things in the tab.)
00:11:30 <b_jonas> I presume so, worship can't be an entirely useless resource this early in the game without a warning
00:11:58 <b_jonas> but it's not a priority at this point
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09:14:41 <b_jonas> hehe, ebay.com has new localization to hungarian, which it keeps switching back to even after I tell it to display the page in English, and it displays euro currency in the checkout as "U+20AC"
09:17:45 <b_jonas> I mean I can't blame it about switching back to hungarian language, because that's what the http request headers tell it
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09:49:47 <b_jonas> huh, so Steamworks only reduces the coal production from mines, not that from smelters
10:29:36 <esolangs> [[Treee]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106126&oldid=106049 * Octogeddonling * (+522) 
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14:11:41 <esolangs> [[Literally every golflang ever/Esopage]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106128&oldid=106127 * Xyzzy * (+524) 
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14:17:18 <esolangs> [[Literally every golflang ever/Esopage]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106133&oldid=106132 * Xyzzy * (-72) 
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15:47:04 <esolangs> [[2DChanger]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106136&oldid=93349 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+362) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the 2DChanger programming language on GitHub and added the category tag Implemented.
15:48:08 <esolangs> [[2DChanger]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106137&oldid=106136 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+65) Amended an orthographic mistake and improved the command table formatting.
15:48:10 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Ulises *  New user account
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15:54:56 <esolangs> [[2DChanger]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106138&oldid=106137 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+888) Added an examples section with an initial member in the form of a Hello, World! program.
16:04:40 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106139&oldid=106124 * Ulises * (+90) /* Introductions */
16:05:13 <esolangs> [[BF instruction minimalization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106140&oldid=92369 * Ulises * (+266) 
16:11:00 <esolangs> [[Talk:BF instruction minimalization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106141&oldid=98801 * Ulises * (+135) /* 1 bit bf to my bf instruction minimalization */ new section
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18:10:30 * FireFly praises the sun \o/
18:15:34 <esolangs> [[Talk:Airline Food]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106149&oldid=85872 * Ulises * (+389) /* short syntax? */ new section
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18:46:37 <b_jonas> I'll have to give in and allow a 18th kitten so I can start to explore for trade
18:47:30 <b_jonas> I already sold all but one hut for log houses
18:47:59 <FireFly> huh.. why?
18:48:27 <FireFly> oh you really want to minimize number of kittens huh
18:48:44 <b_jonas> Send explorers needs 1000 catpower, and huts and log houses are the only things that provide catpower storage
18:57:52 <int-e> I have 18 kittens and no coal :-/
18:58:01 <int-e> (But I see how to get there)
18:58:49 <int-e> FireFly: it's less of minimizing kittens and more of maximizing the power they wield, I think. But... looking at my game... I do think 18 is low for where I think b_jonas is at (a bit ahead of me)
18:59:02 <int-e> Year 35 here.
19:00:17 <int-e> Basically I decided that I'll never run out of fur again.
19:00:27 <int-e> So I can add more kittens based on that.
19:01:10 <b_jonas> I found a new civilization!
19:01:51 <int-e> Yay
19:02:08 <b_jonas> but they want the tribute in ivory, that's not good business
19:02:16 <int-e> I can't, not with 800 max cat power. :)
19:02:16 <Joao003> beep boop hi im here again
19:02:20 <Joao003> after months
19:10:05 <esolangs> [[Braindead]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106150&oldid=105076 * Leothetechguy * (-409) made this readable (no offense)
19:13:50 <esolangs> [[Braindead]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106151&oldid=106150 * Leothetechguy * (-111) more readability improvements
19:44:51 <FireFly> int-e: but as a general rule more kittens is better, so I find it odd to be selling huts :p
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19:45:19 <FireFly> (with the exception of at the very beginning when happiness is a bit of a problem)
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19:51:07 <int-e> FireFly: happiness is a problem. even food is still a problem.
19:51:21 <int-e> manageable, but it needs to be managed :P
19:52:31 <int-e> -31/s in winter (not cold).
19:55:16 <b_jonas> ok, I now have enough science storage for Astronomy, but science storage is just half the problem. it costs 65 manuscripts. I need to figure out how Printing Press works.
19:55:22 <FireFly> well, it's easier to manage with more farmers since they produce strictly more catnip than they consume :p
19:56:20 <int-e> I only have two farmers... better things to do :P
19:56:40 <int-e> spring is +42/s, fwiw. (also not cold)
19:56:52 <int-e> so it balances with some food to spare.
19:57:02 <b_jonas> I keep clicking on Priest by mistake because I'm so used to Miner being the last one in the list of jobs
19:57:05 <FireFly> I mean, food shouldn't hinder getting more kittens since you can always assign more farmers
19:57:16 <FireFly> happiness is more of a hindrance in that case I think
19:58:00 <int-e> right
19:58:22 <b_jonas> I need a fifth blueprint from the darned Griffons
19:58:41 <b_jonas> well, sixth, I spent one to build the steamworks
19:58:44 <int-e> amphitheatres are expensive (I have 3); religion is a distant dream
19:59:05 <b_jonas> I have 9 amphitheatres
19:59:07 <fizzie> "As a general rule, more kittens is better." Not limited to the game.
19:59:37 <FireFly> p
19:59:39 <FireFly> :p*
19:59:40 <int-e> beware of the tribbles effect
19:59:50 <int-e> aka cute overload
20:01:31 <fizzie> Hmm, I think I'm capped on ivory rather than the other thing for... those things that take ivory and the other thing to build.
20:02:35 <int-e> Ah I see the Deep Mining flavor text.
20:02:38 <int-e> `canary
20:02:39 <HackEso> canary? No such file or directory
20:02:51 <int-e> `? canary
20:02:53 <HackEso> A canary is a small bright yellow chicken that dwells in deep caves. Unlike bats, canaries are oriented right way up, unless they're pining for the fjords.
20:03:10 <b_jonas> I want to research Hihg pressure engine. It needs 5 blueprints, and I already have 4, so I have to keep trading with the gryphons until they give me a fifth one
20:03:22 <fizzie> `cat canary
20:03:23 <HackEso> cat: canary: No such file or directory
20:03:28 <fizzie> `cat /hackenv/canary
20:03:29 <HackEso> Why are you taking Polly down into the mine? Polly's a parrot, not a canary! And where's my cracker?
20:03:41 <fizzie> I guess the working directory change ruined that a little.
20:03:51 <b_jonas> then I'll have to figure out how the Printing press works, because Astronomy needs a ton of manuscripts
20:04:05 <b_jonas> heh
20:04:46 <b_jonas> ``` cp -vi /hackenv/canary .
20:04:47 <HackEso> ​'/hackenv/canary' -> './canary'
20:04:50 <b_jonas> `cat canary
20:04:51 <HackEso> Why are you taking Polly down into the mine? Polly's a parrot, not a canary! And where's my cracker?
20:05:25 <b_jonas> Griffins still hate me
20:05:38 <int-e> I have... 1.36 manuscripts. Should've waited with crafting it.
20:06:05 <int-e> cold winter. -38/s
20:06:23 <fizzie> Griffins turned neutral earlier than the other hateful race. Not sure if they ever turn friendly, though. Could be neutral is as good as it gets.
20:06:24 <b_jonas> I did manage to handcraft enough manuscripts for the Theology science and two temples 
20:06:41 <FireFly> I have 176... but I need 550 z.z
20:07:13 <fizzie> I have 546.27K, but I don't think I can really gift them to anyone.
20:07:30 <FireFly> alas :p
20:08:16 <b_jonas> they gave me spice 
20:08:35 <fizzie> Cut off your nose to spice your face. No, that's not exactly how the saying goes.
20:09:03 <b_jonas> just spice, not the iron that we agreed on. not that I need iron, but still, they're always like this
20:09:13 <FireFly> yes indeed
20:10:29 <fizzie> Since I don't know exactly what I'd need out of manuscript/compendium/blueprint, I've got it wired roughly so that I'm stockpiling twice as many manuscripts as I have compendia, and 100x as many compendia as I have blueprints, kind of vaguely except not really in line with their crafting ratios.
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20:13:22 <b_jonas> found a third civilization: lizards, friendly, and ask for minerals, which is more reasonable than asking for ivory
20:13:41 <b_jonas> should I see if they have blueprints or should I stick to the Griffins?
20:14:06 <fizzie> I think they all have just as much blueprints.
20:14:24 <fizzie> Except for the hate-you-for-no-reason aspect.
20:14:27 <b_jonas> I'll try the lizards then, they're friendly
20:15:00 <int-e> I has coal
20:15:54 <int-e> (Well, a little bit)
20:17:05 <b_jonas> "Lizards think your kittens are adorable"
20:21:09 <fizzie> Oof, I think it's time to genafpraq, nqber naq cenvfr, naq jurer V nz pheeragyl vg'f nyjnlf dhvgr n qebc va cebqhpgvivgl sbe n juvyr. Pheeragyl ng +1075% fbyne eribyhgvba, naq jvgu n 56X snvgu pnc V guvax gung'yy qebc gb yvxr 150%, snpgbevat va gur rkcrpgrq cenvfr obahf.
20:21:15 <fizzie> It's always a shame when a number goes down.
20:21:25 <int-e> I guess I'll go for some more amphitheatres next
20:22:39 <fizzie> Hmm, my monitoring says the wiki is down.
20:22:56 <fizzie> "Host esolangs.org not found: 2(SERVFAIL)"
20:23:03 <fizzie> Must be some kind of a DNS thing.
20:23:37 <fizzie> Works from this other server, so maybe just for my local network then.
20:24:55 <int-e> esolangs.org has address 46.43.2.108
20:25:33 <fizzie> Yeah. Following the chain with dig works from home too, so I suspect it's just dnsmasq on the router or something.
20:26:17 <fizzie> Odd that it's just esolangs.org so far, though.
20:26:27 <fizzie> I wonder if it caches negative results or something.
20:26:34 <fizzie> I think DNS does do that.
20:33:47 <b_jonas> I got the blueprint! I have high pressure engine now
20:34:17 <b_jonas> ok, so time to figure out how the steamworks printing manuscript works
20:36:37 <b_jonas> ok, so I just enable steam works, it reduces the coal production of mines, and produces manuscripts with a fixed speed?
20:36:58 <b_jonas> I mean it does also say that it will be able to do more things from later upgrades
20:37:12 <b_jonas> also "Energy production: 1Wt", I don't know what that is
20:38:24 <fizzie> Yeah. You don't have to worry about your total energy production until you find something that actually *consumes* energy.
20:38:32 <b_jonas> sure, but what is Wt
20:38:37 <b_jonas> cat watts? 
20:39:30 <fizzie> I think it's canonically just watts. Not sure what the 't' is doing there.
20:39:32 <b_jonas> sharks! (new civilization discovered. I figured I'd explore more. they want iron as tribute, that's good.
20:40:17 <b_jonas> well, this is a very slow way to produce manuscripts. I guess I'm supposed to build multiple steamworks to speed it up.
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20:41:21 <b_jonas> hmm, I have enough science to research Ironwood Huts, but that seems a completely useless workshop ugprade
20:41:36 <FireFly> I think the hut upgrades are some of the most powerful ones :p
20:42:01 <b_jonas> not when I have very few kittens and sold all my huts
20:42:03 <FireFly> but I find the difference in approach interesting
20:42:06 <FireFly> yeah indeed
20:43:07 <b_jonas> I might research it anyway in case it unlocks something, but I think workshop upgrades usually don't do that
20:43:26 <FireFly> sometimes I think there's upgrades as prerequisites for others, but more later on
20:43:39 <b_jonas> "Your explorers failed to find anyone. *** Maybe you should try to reach other continents."
20:44:25 <esolangs> [[CrashFunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106152&oldid=45704 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+106) Categories
20:44:36 <fizzie> Yeah, those exploration hints are _really_ vague.
20:45:01 <GregorR> Something something Brainfuck something something Malbolge something something Befunge something something.
20:45:03 <b_jonas> that's concrete enough. it means I'll need to research ships good enough to cross the atlantic
20:47:27 <int-e> I didn't think I'd ever say this... but I have too much science.
20:47:54 <b_jonas> I've had enough science for a while, it's science storage that was a problem
20:51:39 <FireFly> I have enough science, I just need another hour's worth of culture for manuscripts..
20:53:39 <b_jonas> by the way, I got two new reigious abilities revealed
20:53:55 <b_jonas> ooh, this is useful
20:54:37 <b_jonas> or religious upgrades, I'm not sure
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21:17:01 <int-e> Well, hello, lizards!
21:20:09 <int-e> though wood for minerals isn't the greatest trade for me...
21:21:34 <b_jonas> int-e: consider it a trade for the occasional blueprint and spice. the mineral tribute is not too relevant.
21:22:26 <b_jonas> ok, so I have to grind this Solar chant thing so that my priests can work faster
21:23:07 <int-e> b_jonas: sure
21:23:28 <int-e> But for the stuff I'm building, minerals are the bottleneck.
21:28:26 <b_jonas> ah no
21:28:35 <b_jonas> its price is growing up very quickly
21:29:03 <b_jonas> and Solar chant is a one-time upgrade apparently
21:32:12 <fizzie> It kind of is and isn't, which is why IIRC it shows a cost even after being bought.
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21:43:11 <int-e> what... sharks!
21:44:17 <b_jonas> int-e: yep, I just mentioned them above
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22:13:36 <FireFly> sharks!
22:19:23 <b_jonas> Sharks!
22:19:30 <b_jonas> fungot, Sharks!
22:19:31 <fungot> b_jonas: these days, there are several problems in xemacs that are hard to find a widget to focus on using shift reset in a different order
22:19:58 <b_jonas> sorry? 
22:24:51 <b_jonas> I'll run out of culture
22:28:15 <int-e> Year 51 snapshot: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/kittens-buildings3.png
22:28:29 <int-e> I have 9 Amphitheatres. I need more.
22:30:02 <b_jonas> I have 9 Amphitheatres too
22:30:39 <b_jonas> but I also have 2 Temples, those help a lot
22:30:49 <FireFly> I have 15 amphis
22:30:59 <int-e> b_jonas: temples are still quite far away
22:30:59 <FireFly> it's enough for my 60 kitties
22:31:34 <int-e> 2h worth of culture in manuscripts, if I focus on the temple.
22:31:43 <FireFly> 9 amphitheatres feels like a good start
22:32:28 <int-e> But there are other sinks for culture too. It'll be a while.
22:32:42 <FireFly> but the temple produces a lot more culture
22:32:53 <FireFly> I suspect it's worth 2h worth of culture
22:35:15 <int-e> It'll be shorter if I get more amphitheatres :P
22:36:13 <int-e> Anyway, it's still not an idle game so that'll be it for me for today.
22:38:43 <b_jonas> Astronomy!
22:38:49 <b_jonas> I just researched Astronomy
22:39:26 <int-e> you can count your lucky stars
22:40:22 <b_jonas> and of course the next Science tech that it unlocks requires even more science storage capacity. 
22:40:42 <b_jonas> heck, the building that this unlocks is expensive
22:41:08 <b_jonas> 50 scaffolds? where will I get 50 scaffolds?
22:41:12 <fizzie> I've built 121 of them so far.
22:41:23 <int-e> b_jonas: from your heavily upgraded workshop
22:41:52 <fizzie> The 122nd would cost 267480 scaffolds.
22:41:57 <int-e> (the bonus applies in both steps, wood -> beams -> scaffolds)
22:42:46 <b_jonas> int-e: I have 31 workshops. I can't build more right now because of my minerals storage limit. and I can't build more barns because of the wood storage limit, so I need to build a lot of warehouses to break through this
22:43:13 <int-e> I see
22:44:15 <b_jonas> Firefly is probably right and I'll have to dramatically increase my kitten population so I can get more income of everything and build buildings faster
22:45:41 <b_jonas> also there's now a green greek letter psi in the calendar line with the tooltip "Umbra (Year 2)"
22:48:35 <fizzie> I'm not in a point yet where those would be more than decorative, but it's Redmoon here now.
22:50:51 <b_jonas> let me see if I can get Solar Chant a second time. it says "(complete)" but also gives a higher price than the first time which is suspicious
22:57:51 <b_jonas> nope. I can't research it again, despite that I have enough faith now. 
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22:58:43 <b_jonas> I revealed a third religious upgrade, but it requires a third temple or something
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23:04:31 <b_jonas> and now it's a purple greek small letter psi
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2023-01-17:

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00:51:26 <fizzie> Oh, it's a DNSSEC issue that's afflicting esolangs.org. I wonder if setting that up in the first place was a mistake. Just felt like it's The Future.
00:52:03 <fizzie> I think my bind installation has rotated the KSK, and now the delegation from org. to esolangs.org. is bogus.
00:52:24 <fizzie> I should look into having a less mysterious DNS server.
00:53:50 <fizzie> Yeah, it had a five-year validity period (from 20180110125025 to 20230116125025), and so it got deleted when that expired.
00:54:06 <fizzie> I should have updated it myself before that was up, but of course there were no alerts.
01:05:50 <fizzie> Looks like I got it fixed by (for future reference) executing a `dnssec-settime ...` on the key file and then running `rndc loadkeys ...`, without having to regenerate new keys. Although it would probably be good practice to *sometimes* rotate them.
01:06:11 <fizzie> Still, it resolves again, and that's the main thing.
01:15:25 <b_jonas> thanks for debugging it
01:34:29 <fizzie> Mm. I did find out during the debugging that Google's public DNS server has a web lookup interface at https://dns.google/query?name=esolangs.org that gives a more useful error message ("DNSSEC validation error") than I got from just dig ("SERVFAIL"). With a handy link to the dnsviz.net validator, which made the problem quite clear. So that was nice.
01:57:49 <b_jonas> useful\
02:19:17 <esolangs> [[Ars]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106153 * Nurdle * (+469) Created the article
02:45:23 <b_jonas> the sharks seem more reliable in honoring their part of the deal than the griffons. they didn't rip me off by not giving the food for the iron yet. and they even gave me a blueprint just now
02:46:57 <b_jonas> and now they gave spice besides catnip
03:00:36 <wpa> fungot: please translate what b_jonas is saying
03:00:36 <fungot> wpa: and me going to implement my queue? ( hee, that sounds good, i can just lisppaste it :) +inf. -inf.
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04:51:52 <esolangs> [[User:Ulises]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106154 * Ulises * (+11) Created page with "[[ulilang]]"
05:07:40 <esolangs> [[Ulilang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106155 * Ulises * (+287) Created page with "==commands==  ulilang     |c  0,l         |goto l  1,l         |l:  2,x,y,l     |if x==y{goto l}  3,x,y,l     |if x>y{goto l}  4,x,n       |x=n  5,x,y       |x=y ===io=== there is none ==examples== ===truth-machine===  4,0,0  4,input,0(or 1)  2,0,input,skipper  1,loop  0,
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05:37:09 <esolangs> [[Ulilang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106156&oldid=106155 * Ulises * (+436) /* examples */
05:38:01 <esolangs> [[Ulilang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106157&oldid=106156 * Ulises * (+23) /* logic gates */
05:40:39 <esolangs> [[Ulilang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106158&oldid=106157 * Ulises * (+28) 
05:41:40 <esolangs> [[Ulilang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106159&oldid=106158 * Ulises * (+19) 
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05:51:59 <esolangs> [[Talk:BF instruction minimalization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106160&oldid=106145 * Ulises * (-1) /* 1 bit bf to my bf instruction minimalization */
05:54:15 <esolangs> [[BF instruction minimalization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106161&oldid=106143 * Ulises * (-37) /* 1 step,1 line */
05:55:16 <esolangs> [[Talk:BF instruction minimalization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106162&oldid=106160 * Ulises * (+4) /* 1 bit bf to my bf instruction minimalization */
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08:41:53 <esolangs> [[Listack]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106163 * McChuck * (+7175) Listack: a stackless, stack based concatenative language
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08:42:48 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106164&oldid=106163 * McChuck * (-2) /* Features */
08:43:54 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106165&oldid=106164 * McChuck * (+2) /* Features */
08:45:21 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106166&oldid=106165 * McChuck * (+17) /* Features */
08:47:41 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106167&oldid=106166 * McChuck * (-9) /* See also */
08:51:42 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106168&oldid=106167 * McChuck * (+1) /* Stacklist: A stackless, stack based concatenative language */
08:53:39 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106169&oldid=106168 * McChuck * (-19) /* Stacklist: A stackless, stack based concatenative language */
08:54:44 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106170&oldid=106169 * McChuck * (+39) /* Stacklist: A stackless, stack based concatenative language */
08:55:45 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106171&oldid=106170 * McChuck * (+6) /* Stacklist: A stackless, stack based concatenative language */
08:56:55 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106172&oldid=106171 * McChuck * (+0) /* Stacklist: A stackless, stack based concatenative language */
08:57:30 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106173&oldid=106172 * McChuck * (-12) /* Stacklist: A stackless, stack based concatenative language */
08:58:27 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106174&oldid=106173 * McChuck * (+2) /* Stacklist: A stackless, stack based concatenative language */
09:00:06 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106175&oldid=106174 * McChuck * (+0) 
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09:45:27 <esolangs> [[Listack]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106176&oldid=106175 * McChuck * (+500) Added example program
09:51:01 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106177&oldid=106176 * McChuck * (+30) /* Example program */
09:55:31 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106178&oldid=106177 * McChuck * (+153) /* Example program */
09:57:53 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106179&oldid=106178 * McChuck * (+41) /* Example program */
09:58:04 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106180&oldid=106179 * McChuck * (+1) /* Example program */
10:02:04 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106181&oldid=106180 * McChuck * (+27) /* Example program */
10:04:15 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106182&oldid=106181 * McChuck * (+0) /* Example program */
10:10:31 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106183&oldid=106182 * McChuck * (+0) /* Example program */
10:12:22 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106184&oldid=106183 * McChuck * (+3) /* Example program */
10:12:32 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106185&oldid=106184 * McChuck * (+1) /* Example program */
11:03:47 <esolangs> [[Literally every golflang ever/Esopage]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106186&oldid=106135 * Xyzzy * (+1150) 
11:06:44 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106187&oldid=106185 * McChuck * (+366) /* Example program */
11:14:07 <esolangs> [[Literally every golflang ever/Esopage]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106188&oldid=106186 * Xyzzy * (+1197) 
11:19:10 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106189&oldid=106187 * McChuck * (+22) /* Example program */
11:21:03 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106190&oldid=106189 * McChuck * (+0) /* Example program */
11:22:38 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106191&oldid=106190 * McChuck * (-45) /* Example program */
11:24:37 <esolangs> [[Literally every golflang ever/Esopage]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106192&oldid=106188 * Xyzzy * (+925) 
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11:46:47 <esolangs> [[Literally every golflang ever/Esopage]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106193&oldid=106192 * Xyzzy * (+1232) 
12:03:27 <esolangs> [[Literally every golflang ever/Esopage]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106194&oldid=106193 * Xyzzy * (+429) 
12:03:57 <esolangs> [[Literally every golflang ever/Esopage]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106195&oldid=106194 * Xyzzy * (+17) 
12:04:39 <esolangs> [[Literally every golflang ever/Esopage]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106196&oldid=106195 * Xyzzy * (-63) 
12:05:12 <esolangs> [[Literally every golflang ever/Esopage]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106197&oldid=106196 * Xyzzy * (+219) 
12:06:22 <esolangs> [[Talk:Literally every golflang ever/Esopage]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106198 * Xyzzy * (+43) Redirected page to [[Literally every golflang ever]]
12:06:57 <esolangs> [[Talk:Literally every golflang ever/Esopage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106199&oldid=106198 * Xyzzy * (+5) Changed redirect target from [[Literally every golflang ever]] to [[Talk:Literally every golflang ever]]
12:07:32 <esolangs> [[Talk:Literally every golflang ever]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106200 * Xyzzy * (+117) Created page with "This is my first comment is this page! --~~~~"
12:09:03 <esolangs> [[User:Xyzzy]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106201&oldid=106088 * Xyzzy * (+116) 
12:09:14 <esolangs> [[User:Xyzzy]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106202&oldid=106201 * Xyzzy * (+4) 
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14:36:03 <esolangs> [[User:Nurdle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106203&oldid=106123 * Nurdle * (+13) /* Esolangs */
14:36:48 <esolangs> [[Ars]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106204&oldid=106153 * Nurdle * (+8) /* Truth Machine */
14:39:16 <esolangs> [[Table]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106205&oldid=105839 * Rdococ * (+79) /* Semantics */
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14:58:27 <esolangs> [[International Phonetic Esoteric Language]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106206&oldid=105012 * Bigyihsuan * (+113) 
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15:04:56 <esolangs> [[UpDown]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106207&oldid=105955 * IdfbAn * (+20) Fix "Hello, World!"
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15:34:56 <esolangs> [[Second Airline Food Turing-completeness Proof]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106208 * Ulises * (+637) Created page with "lets begin all programs with  u ever notice 1  for 60001 variables zero em  whats the deal with tapecell  not like tapecell when the pointer moves left this happens  lets talk about tapecell60001  not like tapecell60001  kinda like ta
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15:51:44 <esolangs> [[Ars]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106209&oldid=106204 * Nurdle * (+4108) 
16:16:20 <esolangs> [[Ars]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106210&oldid=106209 * Nurdle * (+18) /* Timestamps */
16:16:34 <esolangs> [[Ars]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106211&oldid=106210 * Nurdle * (-1) /* Timestamps */
16:17:06 <esolangs> [[Ars]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106212&oldid=106211 * Nurdle * (+18) 
16:17:49 <esolangs> [[Cathain]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106213&oldid=106116 * Nurdle * (+44) 
16:19:19 <esolangs> [[Ars]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106214&oldid=106212 * Nurdle * (+38) /* Syntax */
16:21:25 <esolangs> [[Ars]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106215&oldid=106214 * Nurdle * (+55) 
16:22:54 <esolangs> [[Cathain]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106216&oldid=106213 * Nurdle * (+94) 
16:25:21 <esolangs> [[Ars]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106217&oldid=106215 * Nurdle * (+75) 
16:25:59 <esolangs> [[Ars]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106218&oldid=106217 * Nurdle * (+0) 
16:26:51 <esolangs> [[Cathain]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106219&oldid=106216 * Nurdle * (+39) 
16:39:26 <esolangs> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106220&oldid=106064 * Nurdle * (+26) /* C */
16:40:53 <esolangs> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106221&oldid=106220 * Nurdle * (+62) /* A */
16:42:01 <esolangs> [[Cathain]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106222&oldid=106219 * Nurdle * (+3) /* See Also */
16:45:18 <esolangs> [[Ars]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106223&oldid=106218 * Nurdle * (+198) /* See Also */
16:48:44 <esolangs> [[Ars]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106224&oldid=106223 * Nurdle * (+135) 
16:48:58 <esolangs> [[Ars]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106225&oldid=106224 * Nurdle * (+0) /* Computational Class */
16:50:17 <esolangs> [[Ars]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106226&oldid=106225 * Nurdle * (+53) 
16:50:31 <esolangs> [[Ars]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106227&oldid=106226 * Nurdle * (+1) 
16:54:22 <esolangs> [[Cathain]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106228&oldid=106222 * Nurdle * (+244) 
17:01:41 <olsner> fungot: fnord?
17:01:42 <fungot> olsner: don't know if anyone has 6 and a half a ton of magic to initialise all the errors and accumulators just for 1st octant
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17:17:23 <fizzie> That's a lot of magic.
17:26:04 <esolangs> [[1L1D]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106229 * Ulises * (+211) Created page with "like [[ulilang]] but unary (using #) everything else is a nop which means either   , or  [newline] depending on the opcode like  ####__ ####_#_ ##__#_ _# #_# #_ <-- a truthmachine --!> [[category:language list]]"
17:26:13 <esolangs> [[1L1D]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106230&oldid=106229 * Ulises * (+1) 
17:26:29 <esolangs> [[1L1D]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106231&oldid=106230 * Ulises * (+0) 
17:31:00 <esolangs> [[Ars]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106232&oldid=106227 * Nurdle * (+28) 
17:34:38 <esolangs> [[Cathain]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106233&oldid=106228 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+23) /* External Resources */ Category
18:12:41 <esolangs> [[Talk:Burn]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106234&oldid=100557 * SpaceByte * (+762) 
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18:54:02 <int-e> Oh kittensgame can export to files but not import from files. Fun.
18:55:44 <int-e> Oh! And I complained about the file export not working, but it actually did work... it dumped it all into my home directory because that's the Firefox default behavior. (Rather than asking for a target directory.)
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19:47:28 <int-e> huh. "Color scheme permanently unlocked: Minimalist"
19:47:41 <int-e> I'm not sure whether that's a compliment :P
20:16:02 <fizzie> I just unlocked the last remaining color scheme the other day.
20:16:32 <fizzie> Minimalist was probably the first one I got too, it's from 10 warehouses.
20:28:18 <fizzie> "Lbh unir genafpraqrq gur zbegny yvzvgf. G-yriry: 9"
20:31:33 <b_jonas> I now have 12 barns and 32 workshops. I had to build like ten additional warehouses to be allowed to build a barn. the next barn will require 34 warehouses.
20:32:03 <b_jonas> that or an improvement like that titanium barns thing that the game has been teasing me for a very long time – I have no idea what titanium is
20:32:14 <b_jonas> on the plus side, I also have a third temple now
20:32:23 <b_jonas> this is still about https://kittensgame.com/
20:32:45 <b_jonas> oh hey look! there's a new research opened up now called Silos
20:32:49 <b_jonas> where did this come from?
20:33:03 <b_jonas> it's rather far though with a high science requirement
20:59:43 <int-e> ...first temple.
21:00:29 <int-e> in the end the bottleneck turned out to be furs/parchments
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21:57:49 <esolangs> [[Cathain]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106235&oldid=106233 * Nurdle * (+41) 
21:58:29 <esolangs> [[Ars]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106236&oldid=106232 * Nurdle * (+41) 
22:00:54 <esolangs> [[Ars]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106237&oldid=106236 * Nurdle * (+23) 
22:03:39 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106238&oldid=106000 * Nurdle * (+1) /* Lesser known programming languages */
22:24:12 <int-e> oh lol, you can enqueue a policy change but it will still pop up the "are you sure" dialog
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23:18:13 <esolangs> [[Ars]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106239&oldid=106237 * Nurdle * (-46) 
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2023-01-18:

00:00:46 <zzo38> I had made up a kind of ADPCM variant, but so far only the decoder and not the encoder and I am not sure how good it is yet
00:01:22 <zzo38> It has variable 2 or 4 bits per sample, and there is also a copy command.
00:05:59 <zzo38> In GitHub, are you allowed to mix other commands with the "Co-authored-by" commands at the end of the commit message? (I don't know if GitHub implements any other such commands, but they could be used by software other than GitHub; I am just asking if GitHub will still pay attention to the "Co-authored-by" command even if other commands are there too, and if any other program that implements "Co-authored-by" does so.)
00:09:55 <zzo38> O, I found a list of other commands that can be used there. (I don't know which ones are implemented by which software, but that's OK)
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02:17:38 <esolangs> [[Talk:5iasm]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106240 * Xyzzy * (+145) Created page with "hello guys, xyzzy-the creator here, this is my first comment ever. --~~~~"
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10:50:57 <wib_jonas> https://dpaste.com/3TFZFRZ2W.txt rectangular grid, random cells selected with a set minimum distance between any two, saturated. is there a searchable name for the continuous (non-gridded) version of this random process?
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14:00:55 <wib_jonas> hehe. apparently there are two different definitions of the lcm (least common multiple) on integers with respect to sign. J defines it so that lcm(a,b)*gcd(a,b) = a*b always, eg. lcm(4,-6) = -12.
14:00:56 <wib_jonas> whereas python's math library, gmp, libtommath, C++17's numeric library, the boost integer library, these all define it as the absolute value of J's lcm.
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15:09:50 <esolangs> [[Hello++++]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106241&oldid=86056 * SpaceByte * (+187) batch interp
15:10:10 <esolangs> [[User:SpaceByte]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106242&oldid=103967 * SpaceByte * (+14) 
15:10:34 <esolangs> [[User:SpaceByte]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106243&oldid=106242 * SpaceByte * (+2) 
15:21:55 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * No *  New user account
15:22:47 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106244&oldid=106139 * No * (+46) 
15:23:10 <esolangs> [[User:No]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106245 * No * (+44) Created page with "i am [[User:No]] userno esolangs coming soon"
15:23:45 <esolangs> [[User talk:Yes]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106246&oldid=105848 * No * (+114) 
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15:58:38 <wib_jonas> `olist 1273
15:58:40 <HackEso> olist <https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1273.html>: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
16:07:19 <esolangs> [[Talk:Number]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106247 * SpaceByte * (+148) Created page with "== last esolang == this was the last esolang in 2022 lmao --~~~~"
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17:31:40 <esolangs> [[SubScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106248&oldid=103808 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+4) Fix redirect
17:32:59 -!- SGautam has joined.
17:36:19 <esolangs> [[Esolang Quality Rating System]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106249&oldid=78766 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+17) Stub, WIP
17:49:03 <esolangs> [[SuperScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106250&oldid=103805 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+106) Categories
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18:45:04 <esolangs> [[Talk:Esolang Quality Rating System]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106251 * Nurdle * (+711) Created page with "I don't think this is a great idea considering the vagueness of "quality" and the insane difficulty that comes with defining which features are good and which are bad. Furthermore I believe purely original ideas may seem like a good way to measu
18:54:29 <esolangs> [[Talk:Esolang Quality Rating System]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106252&oldid=106251 * Nurdle * (-711) Blanked the page
18:54:46 <esolangs> [[Talk:Esolang Quality Rating System]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106253&oldid=106252 * Nurdle * (+696) /* Issues */ new section
18:55:04 <esolangs> [[Talk:Esolang Quality Rating System]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106254&oldid=106253 * Nurdle * (+7) /* Issues */
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19:55:22 <b_jonas> ok, so it's time to collect materials for an expensive building. I can pick either Ziggurat or Observatory. which one should I build first? Ziggurat is more expensive, but not by much
19:58:38 <esolangs> [[Talk:Esolang Quality Rating System]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106255&oldid=106254 * Olus2000 * (+604) /* Computational Class points revamp */ new section
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21:32:28 <esolangs> [[OZZo]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106256&oldid=105888 * Fly * (-2) /* Implementation */
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22:56:26 <b_jonas> what the heck. I bought the ziggurat. this gives a button to sacrifice unicorns, but doesn't seem to give an option on which color of unicorns to sacrifice. that's very unsafe.

2023-01-19:

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08:07:16 <myname> ah, somebody is playing kittens
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08:56:47 <b_jonas> myname: four of us simultaneously, it seems
08:56:57 <b_jonas> it's contagious
08:57:54 <myname> i used to play it some years ago and i do like kittens-likes, but i felt like progress got to slow at some point. but i semi-regularly pick it up again
08:58:27 <myname> also, evolve is another nice contestant in that realm, it is missing a mobile app, though
09:26:52 <b_jonas> myname: someone mentioned a game called a dark room http://adarkroom.doublespeakgames.com/ instead as an alternative
09:27:00 <b_jonas> https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2023-01.html#lit
09:27:16 <myname> also a classic, but a bit short
09:29:14 <myname> i also did enjoy realm grinder to an extent, but sadly, it started shifting to a point where you basically had to follow strategy guides in order to progress
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10:16:07 <esolangs> [[ETA]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106257&oldid=84498 * Xyzzy * (+1105) 
10:17:01 <esolangs> [[User:Xyzzy]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106258&oldid=106202 * Xyzzy * (+54) 
10:17:12 <esolangs> [[User:Xyzzy]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106259&oldid=106258 * Xyzzy * (+5) 
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13:21:04 <esolangs> [[Listack]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106260&oldid=106191 * McChuck * (+48) /* Example program */
13:21:55 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106261&oldid=106260 * McChuck * (+6) /* Example programs */
13:22:38 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106262&oldid=106261 * McChuck * (-1) /* Example programs */
13:26:34 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106263&oldid=106262 * McChuck * (+3) /* Example programs */
13:28:15 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106264&oldid=106263 * McChuck * (+66) /* Example programs */
13:30:06 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106265&oldid=106264 * McChuck * (-2) /* Stacklist: A stackless, stack based concatenative language */
13:31:05 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106266&oldid=106265 * McChuck * (+8) /* Stacklist: A stackless, stack based concatenative language */
13:33:14 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106267&oldid=106266 * McChuck * (+0) /* Stacklist: A stackless, stack based concatenative language */
13:33:58 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106268&oldid=106267 * McChuck * (+0) /* Stacklist: A stackless, stack based concatenative language */
13:37:03 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106269&oldid=106268 * McChuck * (+37) /* Stacklist: A stackless, stack based concatenative language */
13:38:01 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106270&oldid=106269 * McChuck * (+7) /* Stacklist: A stackless, stack based concatenative language */
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13:38:55 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106271&oldid=106270 * McChuck * (-14) /* Features */
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13:43:17 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106272&oldid=106271 * McChuck * (-75) /* Features */
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13:54:06 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106273&oldid=106272 * McChuck * (+167) /* Features */
13:56:19 <esolangs> [[Listack]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106274&oldid=106273 * McChuck * (+24) /* Features */
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14:57:44 <esolangs> [[Esolang Quality Rating System]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106275&oldid=106249 * Nurdle * (-32) /* Computational Class */
14:57:59 <esolangs> [[Esolang Quality Rating System]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106276&oldid=106275 * Nurdle * (+0) /* Computational Class */
14:58:22 <esolangs> [[Esolang Quality Rating System]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106277&oldid=106276 * Nurdle * (+0) /* Talk Page */
14:59:41 <esolangs> [[Esolang Quality Rating System]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106278&oldid=106277 * Nurdle * (+49) /* Implementation */
14:59:50 <esolangs> [[Esolang Quality Rating System]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106279&oldid=106278 * Nurdle * (+1) /* Implementations */
15:00:08 <esolangs> [[Esolang Quality Rating System]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106280&oldid=106279 * Nurdle * (+2) /* Computational Class */
15:01:42 <esolangs> [[Brainless]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106281 * SpaceByte * (+4934) bad brainfuck clone with no function, uncomputable
15:02:07 <esolangs> [[Esolang Quality Rating System]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106282&oldid=106280 * Nurdle * (+17) /* Base Score */
15:02:28 <esolangs> [[Brainless]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106283&oldid=106281 * SpaceByte * (-2) 
15:02:59 <esolangs> [[Brainless]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106284&oldid=106283 * SpaceByte * (-1) 
15:03:21 <esolangs> [[Brainless]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106285&oldid=106284 * SpaceByte * (+1) 
15:03:48 <esolangs> [[Talk:Esolang Quality Rating System]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106286&oldid=106255 * Nurdle * (+165) /* Computational Class points revamp */
15:04:12 <esolangs> [[User:SpaceByte]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106287&oldid=106243 * SpaceByte * (+33) wow uncomputable lang
15:04:46 <esolangs> [[Brainless]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106288&oldid=106285 * SpaceByte * (+28) 
15:05:02 <esolangs> [[Brainless]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106289&oldid=106288 * SpaceByte * (+0) 
15:06:07 <esolangs> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106290&oldid=106221 * SpaceByte * (+16) add brainless
15:07:01 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106291&oldid=106238 * SpaceByte * (+16) brainless
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15:09:07 <esolangs> [[Talk:Esolang Quality Rating System]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106292&oldid=106286 * Nurdle * (+490) /* Possible Name Change */ new section
15:11:39 <esolangs> [[User:Nurdle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106293&oldid=106203 * Nurdle * (+22) 
15:12:17 <esolangs> [[User:Nurdle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106294&oldid=106293 * Nurdle * (+16) 
15:44:08 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * Bil-joodusstudios *  uploaded "[[File:Helloworldgrpe.png]]"
15:44:29 <esolangs> [[Talk:Hello++++]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106296&oldid=50660 * SpaceByte * (+64) 
15:44:40 <esolangs> [[Talk:Hello++++]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106297&oldid=106296 * SpaceByte * (+91) forgor sig
15:47:41 <esolangs> [[EPL Main]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106298&oldid=94112 * SpaceByte * (+941) Undo revision 94112 by [[Special:Contributions/Timofeyka|Timofeyka]] ([[User talk:Timofeyka|talk]])
15:50:23 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * Bil-joodusstudios *  uploaded "[[File:Mandelbrotsetgrpe.png]]"
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16:48:57 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * Bil-joodusstudios *  uploaded "[[File:Grpecolorspaceslices.gif]]"
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16:59:47 <esolangs> [[GRPE]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106301 * Bil-joodusstudios * (+8175) A detailed explanation of an esolang which only produces images.
17:01:35 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106302&oldid=106290 * Bil-joodusstudios * (+11) /* G */ GRPE added
17:23:06 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106303&oldid=106274 * McChuck * (+7) /* Example programs */
17:55:55 <esolangs> [[Hello++++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106304&oldid=106241 * SpaceByte * (+5) fixed interp
18:05:10 <esolangs> [[Hello++++++++]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106305 * SpaceByte * (+1593) Hello++++ but better
18:05:27 <esolangs> [[Hello++++++++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106306&oldid=106305 * SpaceByte * (-9) 
18:05:57 <esolangs> [[User:SpaceByte]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106307&oldid=106287 * SpaceByte * (+20) hello++++++++
18:06:40 <esolangs> [[Hello++++++++]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106308&oldid=106306 * SpaceByte * (+99) 
18:08:19 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106309&oldid=106291 * SpaceByte * (+51) add hello++++++++
19:05:34 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106310&oldid=106303 * McChuck * (+252) /* Example programs */
19:06:28 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106311&oldid=106310 * McChuck * (+3) /* Example programs */
19:09:53 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106312&oldid=106311 * McChuck * (-1) /* Example programs */
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19:22:51 <esolangs> [[Talk:Javagony]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106313 * SpaceByte * (+471) Created page with "== Infinite Recursion == Isn't removing while kind of redundant when you can just use recursion, and catch the stack overflow exception lol. Example: <pre> public void bruh() {     try {         bruh(;     } catch (StackOverflowException) {         bruh();     } 
19:29:39 <esolangs> [[Talk:Javagony]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106314&oldid=106313 * Myname * (+197) /* Infinite Recursion */
19:36:16 <esolangs> [[User talk:Yes]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106315&oldid=106246 * SpaceByte * (+387) 
19:38:42 <esolangs> [[!lyriclydemoteestablishcommunism!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106316&oldid=103998 * SpaceByte * (+209) 3 epic interpreters
19:39:17 <esolangs> [[User:SpaceByte]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106317&oldid=106307 * SpaceByte * (+63) 
19:49:41 <esolangs> [[lang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106318&oldid=105551 * SpaceByte * (+194) c++ interpreter
20:24:55 <esolangs> [[AnruBfiankc]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106319&oldid=106084 * Angrylad * (-2) 
20:32:00 <b_jonas> looks like I need lots of faith for most religious functions, and only temples can store faith. that means I'll need to build several more temples.
21:03:02 <fizzie> Yeah, the faith cap is quite an issue.
21:03:17 <fizzie> The problem with building more temples is, gold storage doesn't grow all *that* readily either.
21:04:28 <fizzie> I've got 71 temples (and 56.96K faith), but I can't build any new ones because it would cost 159.05K gold, and I can only hold 156.37K gold.
21:06:13 <b_jonas> my current cap is 381 gold
21:06:36 <b_jonas> I just built a 5th temple, and at this point even a few more will be a big gain in accessing religious abilities I think
21:07:34 <b_jonas> also there's a religious upgrade called Golden Spire which increases faith storage
21:07:54 <b_jonas> which is weird because you'd think a spire should, if anything, *reduce* capacity of the temples
21:08:18 <b_jonas> possibly not affect it if the temple is built properly for storage, but I don't see how it would increase capacity
21:09:03 <fizzie> Maybe faith storage is less about volume and more about some sort of spiritual thing. I don't know how it works.
21:29:23 <b_jonas> just to be clear, I totall support spires on temples, because that's what makes them such useful recognizable landmarks
21:29:39 <b_jonas> and I can also believe that a competent architect can build temple spires that don't affect faith storage
21:29:48 <b_jonas> I'm just surprised that it can increase faith storage at all
21:30:31 <b_jonas> if the upgrade was called "Golden Dome" I'd be less surprised
21:31:19 <b_jonas> apparently there's another upgrade "Sun Altar" that increases faith storage
21:31:33 <b_jonas> ooh! Stained Glass! I must have that one
21:33:43 <esolangs> [[Brainless]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106320&oldid=106289 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-8) Categories, computational class
21:34:03 <esolangs> [[Brainless]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106321&oldid=106320 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+22) /* Hello World */ category
21:36:42 <fizzie> The one that's a Big Deal (eventually, anyway) is the one after that.
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21:39:47 <esolangs> [[Category:Graphical Output]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106322&oldid=79427 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+24) Category
21:46:57 <esolangs> [[Hello++++++++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106323&oldid=106308 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+17) Categories, computational class
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22:32:45 <b_jonas> fizzie: do you mean Fbyne Eribyhgvba?
23:07:05 <b_jonas> funnily with 7 temples I now have more than enoguh faith storage for that, but not enough gold storage
23:41:13 <fizzie> Yeah, the description might make it sound a little meek ("n fznyy obahf") but I'm currently getting +1685.53% bonus to pretty much everything except the most exotic things from it. Although it does take time to ramp up.
23:44:26 <b_jonas> it's Sun Altar that I'm not sure I want. I'm scared that if I choose too many of these then my cats will be too happy.
23:44:43 <b_jonas> I mean I can probably take just this one, but there are so many improvements to happyness
23:54:23 <fizzie> My kitties are 277% happy, and they don't seem to be unhappy about it.

2023-01-20:

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02:20:39 <esolangs> [[Hello++++++++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106324&oldid=106323 * Indigo * (+25) 
03:51:57 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * FiveUnderlines *  New user account
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04:41:20 <esolangs> [[Danicb]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106325 * Squidmanescape * (+3448) Created page with "'''Danicb''', otherwise known as '''ffff f ffffffffffffff fffffffff fff ff''', is a programming language which is based on many other programming languages. This language is most obviously based on a language called '''[[Danica]]''' made by someone who does not wi
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06:21:41 <zzo38> What should it be called in Magic: the Gathering if a keyword ability is meaning that any combat damage that would be dealt to this permanent is dealt to its controller instead?
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08:59:34 <b_jonas> zzo38: unpariah
10:43:05 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106326&oldid=106244 * FiveUnderlines * (+59) /* Introductions */
10:43:26 <esolangs> [[User:FiveUnderlines]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106327 * FiveUnderlines * (+16) Created page with "I will AK IOI!!!"
10:59:23 <esolangs> [[++C+=C++ + ++C;]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106328 * FiveUnderlines * (+981) Created page with "''This is still a work in progress. It may be changed in the future.'' <code>++C+=C++ + ++C;</code> is an esolang by [[User:FiveUnderlines]].Pleas make sure you don't spell any different characters.  ==Description== The name of esolang looks like a classic
11:00:25 <esolangs> [[++C+=C++ + ++C;]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106329&oldid=106328 * FiveUnderlines * (+1) 
11:01:44 <esolangs> [[++C+=C++ + ++C;]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106330&oldid=106329 * FiveUnderlines * (+1) 
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13:48:47 <esolangs> [[User talk:FiveUnderlines]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106331 * SpaceByte * (+102) Created page with "== hi == hi --~~~~"
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14:16:17 <esolangs> [[Brainless]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106332&oldid=106321 * SpaceByte * (-2) 
14:41:57 <esolangs> [[Clickclang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106333&oldid=106119 * SpaceByte * (+41) 
14:54:31 <esolangs> [[Clickclang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106334&oldid=106333 * SpaceByte * (+192) categories
15:00:32 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106335&oldid=99334 * SpaceByte * (+365) 
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15:56:57 <esolangs> [[User:Bil-joodusstudios]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106336 * Bil-joodusstudios * (+699) user page
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19:53:13 <zzo38> It seems a strange name but I suppose that it will do, if there is a not a better name
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20:18:22 <zzo38> Yesterday I had found out that ?: with the middle operand omitted is called the "Elvis operator". It is implemented in GNU C, but will it be included in any version of standard C?
20:43:02 <FireFly> kittens update, I seem to have reached the industrial era of sorts
20:43:11 <FireFly> we'll see how much of a hedaache this pollution mechanic causes me :p
20:43:41 <FireFly> currently pollution causes a -11% penalty to catnip production for me
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20:53:48 <b_jonas> I'm apparently still in the beginning of religion age. I built more temples, I have 8 now and considering the 9th
20:55:20 <b_jonas> ok I have 10 now, but the manuscript cost is still nontrivial so I had to think about whether I wanted temples or something else
20:56:20 <b_jonas> I was wondering if I should get more steamworks for that, but it produces manuscripts so slowly that I don't think it's worth
20:56:28 <FireFly> I kinda feel like this part of the game is slower than I remember, wonder if it's due to things being tweaked or just faulty memory/having gotten used to the goodies speeding things up
20:56:54 <b_jonas> it does feel slow, but also I'm not spending much real time on it now
21:13:46 <b_jonas> wait a moment. so I need more gold storage for the next religion upgrade, but I actually have enough storage for the next Science tab upgrade now, so that's what I should get
21:14:01 <FireFly> makes sense :o
21:14:22 <b_jonas> it does need 100 manuscripts, so not cheap, but I think that's less than what I spent on the 10 temples
21:14:27 <FireFly> I can technically get another science too, it's just... a loot of manuscripts ._.
21:14:59 <FireFly> so I decided to pivot to working on storage and hopefully getting some more workshops to improve the craft ratio
21:15:22 <b_jonas> the science upgrade that I'm talking about is Anivtngvba
21:15:28 <FireFly> helps especially for those science materials requiring several crafting steps
21:15:41 <FireFly> b_jonas: *nod* sounds like a plan :)
21:17:31 <b_jonas> so the loop is, wait about 150 seconds until catpower fills up to 1000, then press Send 10 hunters and quickly after press craft all parchment, before the kittens eat all the furs
21:17:40 <b_jonas> wait a moment, I have 1 starchart. this is new. where did I get that?
21:18:03 <b_jonas> hmm, I'll have to scan the description of upgrades, I think I read something about this
21:18:13 <b_jonas> I haven't built the building yet
21:19:06 <b_jonas> Nfgebabzl, which I have researched, says "unlocks Bofreingbel and Starcharts" so that must be it
21:19:33 <b_jonas> also the description of the science that I'm working for suggest that it will help trade
21:20:02 * FireFly nods
21:20:36 <b_jonas> yeah, it's very specific: "Anivtngvba nyybjf frevbhf nqinaprzragf va fnvyvat naq fuvcohvyqvat grpuabybtl. Vg fubhyq orarsvg rpbabzvpny qrirybczrag naq pna yrnq gb qvfpbirel bs arj pvivyvmngvbaf."
21:21:09 <b_jonas> so yes, that error message that exploration gave wasn't a red herring
21:21:10 <fizzie> I can't get to my kitties for the next six days or so, so I'll just have to hope they'll do something useful.
21:21:50 <FireFly> I was gone for most of this week for work reasons so paged out of kittens a bit :p
21:22:14 <fizzie> Oh well, at least they'll probably collect some ibvq, there's no cap on that.
21:22:53 <FireFly> *nod*
21:23:14 <FireFly> in terms of progress, I have a few bvy jryyf now
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2023-01-21:

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00:25:30 <b_jonas> 99.51 manuscripts. I need just a bit more and I'll be able to research that science
00:33:02 <b_jonas> ooh nice, this unlocks multiple other Science upgades
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03:21:12 <esolangs> [[++C+=C++ + ++C;]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106337&oldid=106330 * FiveUnderlines * (+122) 
03:32:30 <esolangs> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106338&oldid=106302 * FiveUnderlines * (+22) 
03:37:37 <esolangs> [[++C+=C++ + ++C;]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106339&oldid=106337 * FiveUnderlines * (+13) 
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03:40:50 <esolangs> [[++C+=C++ + ++C;]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106340&oldid=106339 * FiveUnderlines * (+46) 
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05:29:54 <esolangs> [[++C+=C++ + ++C;]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106341&oldid=106340 * FiveUnderlines * (-1) 
05:31:51 <esolangs> [[++C+=C++ + ++C;]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106342&oldid=106341 * FiveUnderlines * (+1) 
05:32:46 <esolangs> [[++C+=C++ + ++C;]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106343&oldid=106342 * FiveUnderlines * (-1) 
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11:35:19 <b_jonas> hmm, there are now two workshop improvements that require titanium, which is fine, but why do they show up as white instead of red?
11:36:02 <b_jonas> I guess the game only colors red things where I don't have enough storage capacity, and I have some starting storage capacity for titanium even though I haven't unlocked it
11:37:34 <b_jonas> also that latest science upgrade that I researched unlocks several other science upgrades and workshop upgrades, many of which again require much more science storage than I have now, but at least one that doesn't
11:38:38 <b_jonas> of course, that one workshop improvement that I think I will be able to unlock also isn't cheap, but I expected that much
11:39:35 <b_jonas> anyway, I figure I should max out my Aqueducts and then start to explode my kitten population to much larger
11:40:05 <b_jonas> and start using some farmers regularly so that that can work
11:41:43 <b_jonas> I have 18 kittens right now, and I think my catnip fields and catnip storage can usually support like three times that much, but I think if I get a hot summer, cold autumn, and cold winter or some such combo then suddenly it will fail at much fewer kittens, so I will need farmers to avoid that
11:45:27 <FireFly> there are cases where you can get resources in other ways, so I guess it "makes sense" to have that behaviour wrt starting storage capacities
11:45:34 <FireFly> and them showing up as white rather than red
11:46:58 <FireFly> I'm about halfway to the next science..
11:48:47 <b_jonas> right, maybe I can actually get them from genafngynagvp genqr
11:49:07 <b_jonas> which I have unlocked but haven't crafted any of the necessary item
11:51:25 <b_jonas> I'm going to have to do a hunting streak again later where most of my villagers work as hunters, because that one workshop upgrade that I can develop requires 10000 ivory. it won't be a waste because I still need manuscripts and I'll use the furs from that to craft them
11:51:58 <b_jonas> I made a lot to spend on that latest science upgrade
11:52:01 <b_jonas> and on the temples
11:52:11 <FireFly> not like it's a waste either way, even if you let the kittens consume the luxury resources it still gives +production bonus
11:52:20 * FireFly nods
11:52:49 <FireFly> I'm doing the thing about having most of the kittens on hunting currently to try to reach the next science
11:53:19 <b_jonas> I hope I'll get some way to increase my gold storage capacity
12:19:08 <b_jonas> that reminds me, I have to remove a broken lightbulb, so I'll have to shut down kittens and IRC for that
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12:42:06 <b_jonas> broken lightbulb connector extracted successfully
12:43:17 <b_jonas> huh
12:43:40 <b_jonas> fizzie: https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2023-01-21-raw.txt doesn't show the message where my previous IRC instance QUIT (or PART)
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13:09:51 <b_jonas> I maxed my aquaeducts at 54, at least until I buy more warehouses
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13:46:55 <esolangs> [[2/9 of an esolang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106344&oldid=102747 * Xyzzy * (+201) 
14:32:05 <b_jonas> 7200 out of 10000 ivory now
14:39:35 <b_jonas> yes!
14:39:53 <b_jonas> I got the workshop upgrade that costs 10000 ivory
14:40:34 <fizzie> Hmm. There might be some kind of a bug in the logbot. QUITs don't have channels associated with them, so they're only recorded in a specific channel's log if the bot thinks the nickname in question was currently on the channel, and the code tracking it might get desync'd somehow.
14:40:54 <b_jonas> that sounds possible
14:41:10 <b_jonas> fizzie: make sure you track all four of JOIN, KICK, QUIT, NICK
14:41:17 <b_jonas> maybe you're forgetting to track one of those four
14:41:47 <b_jonas> as far as I understand, nothing else has to be tracked because IRC servers send synthetic versions of these events for everything else so that clients don't have to know about anything else
14:41:54 <b_jonas> but you definitely need all four of these
14:42:36 <b_jonas> I'm not sure whether you need to know the case sensitivity rules or if the server always gives you the same case for the same name
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15:45:46 <FireFly> PART as well for sure?
15:46:13 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * KapitanGamer *  New user account
15:47:27 <int-e> b_jonas: pretty sure they are all tracked in principle (though it's hard to find a nick change... 01-18 has one)
15:49:31 <int-e> But hmm, the perlbot/simcop2387 quits weren't there either.
15:49:32 <int-e> Odd.
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15:59:01 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106345&oldid=106326 * KapitanGamer * (+88) 
15:59:33 <esolangs> [[User:KapitanGamer]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106346 * KapitanGamer * (+89) Created page with "Hello, I'm '''KapitanGamer''' and I programming in Python.  === My esolangs === * [[!*/]]"
16:01:05 <esolangs> [[User:KapitanGamer]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106347&oldid=106346 * KapitanGamer * (+12) 
16:03:17 <esolangs> [[User:KapitanGamer]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106348&oldid=106347 * KapitanGamer * (+41) 
16:05:31 <esolangs> [[User:KapitanGamer]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106349&oldid=106348 * KapitanGamer * (+4) 
16:06:42 <esolangs> [[User:KapitanGamer]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106350&oldid=106349 * KapitanGamer * (+4) 
16:10:13 <esolangs> [[User:KapitanGamer]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106351&oldid=106350 * KapitanGamer * (+2) 
16:13:05 <esolangs> [[User:KapitanGamer]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106352&oldid=106351 * KapitanGamer * (+93) 
16:50:47 <esolangs> [[++C+=C++ + ++C;]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106353&oldid=106343 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+139) Categories
17:22:44 <b_jonas> FireFly: hmm wait, let me look up the list, I thought there were only four
17:27:57 <b_jonas> yeah, apparently it's five statements then, not four. NICK JOIN PART KICK QUIT
17:32:53 <fizzie> I'm tracking those, plus the numeric 353.
17:32:59 <fizzie> (RPL_NAMREPLY)
17:33:10 <fizzie> Which you need for the initial join.
17:34:01 <fizzie> There's also a // TODO comment to do periodic NAMES commands to help fix things if something still gets missed.
17:34:18 <fizzie> But there might be a bug in there somewhere, of course.
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17:37:16 <esolangs> [[Array++]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106354&oldid=105000 * Z Z * (+4) /* Rebinding stuff */
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19:01:57 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * DolphyWind *  New user account
19:13:05 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106355&oldid=106345 * DolphyWind * (+104) 
19:14:44 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106356&oldid=106355 * DolphyWind * (+92) 
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20:54:54 <shachaf> `? nitia
20:54:57 <HackEso> nitia is the inventor of all things. The BBC invented her.
21:05:45 <shachaf> `? bbc
21:05:46 <HackEso> The BBC is the BreadBox Corporation. Its inventions include, without limitation, Muppets, tiny elfs, villages in Norway, and inventors of all things. Taneb invented it.
21:20:13 <esolangs> [[Electra]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106357 * DolphyWind * (+13035) Created page with "= What is Electra? = Electra is a small esolang inspired by AsciiDots. Electra is created by [[User:DolphyWind]]. You can find more about electra on its [https://github.com/DolphyWind/Electra-Lang Github repository].  = How Electra works? =  Electra has Currents whi
21:23:10 <shachaf> `? tanebventions
21:23:12 <HackEso> Tanebventions include necessity, Go, submarine jousting, Fueue, the universe, metar, sand, dragons, persistence, the BBC, _46bit, progress, sanity, the hug, Italian, the grace period, the limerick, ruin, and this sentence. See also tanebventions: maths or tanebventions: foods. He never invents anything involving sex.
21:24:49 <shachaf> `? tanebventions: maths
21:24:51 <HackEso> Mathematical tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Klein bottles, string diagrams, linear logic, the reals, Lambek's lemma, Curry's paradox, Stone spaces, algebraic geometry, locales, and histograms.
21:24:54 <shachaf> `? tanebventions: foods
21:24:56 <HackEso> Culinary tanebventions include automatic squirrel feeders, weetoflakes, mushrooms, nutella, and cognac.
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21:38:08 <b_jonas> histograms? is that new?
21:38:14 <b_jonas> and culinary?
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21:40:24 <b_jonas> none of them are new
21:40:33 <b_jonas> apparently the last change was in 2019
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21:48:51 <shachaf> `? histograms
21:48:53 <HackEso> Histograms are diagrams showing histamine levels. Taneb invented them.
21:49:58 <shachaf> `? locale
21:50:00 <HackEso> Locales are just frames, which are just complete Heyting algebras. Taneb accidentally invented them by asking about lattices. The one true locale in #esoteric is en_NZ.UTF-8.
21:50:21 <shachaf> `slwd locale//s/#esoteric/#esolangs/
21:50:24 <HackEso> locale//Locales are just frames, which are just complete Heyting algebras. Taneb accidentally invented them by asking about lattices. The one true locale in #esolangs is en_NZ.UTF-8.
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22:08:26 <esolangs> [[Electra]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106358&oldid=106357 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+96) /* FizzBuzz */ Categories
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23:11:11 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * K.avi *  New user account
23:15:47 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106359&oldid=106356 * K.avi * (+334) /* Introductions */
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23:42:50 <FireFly> `` grep -r '#esoteric' wisdom
23:42:51 <HackEso> grep: wisdom: No such file or directory
23:42:57 <FireFly> `ls
23:42:58 <HackEso> ​🌱 \ 3 \ a.o \ a.out \ asmbf-1.2.7 \ banana.txt \ bef2 \ bfi \ bin \ Burlesque \ canary \ carrot.txt \ compiled_brachylog.pl \ egel-master \ egel-scripts \ egel.zip \ eGtbSgN68aHU \ foo \ JoaoDir \ just \ karma \ le \ nonoodl \ olist.new \ output.b \ paste \ pd \ pd.c \ pikhqbow_tst \ program \ -.s \ spline \ spout \ stall \ test \ test.sh \ this.py \ tmp \ wisdomls.txt \ xaa
23:43:23 <FireFly> eh wherever it is
23:43:46 <FireFly> `` wc wisdomls.txt
23:43:47 <HackEso> ​ 1599  1880 14278 wisdomls.txt
23:44:35 <FireFly> `` cat $(which slwd)
23:44:36 <HackEso> cd $HACKENV/wisdom; sled "$1" | sed '1s/^Rosebud!$/Roswbud!/'
23:44:56 <FireFly> `` grep -r 'esoteric' $HACKENV/wisdom
23:44:58 <HackEso> ​/hackenv/wisdom/euclid:Euclid is a short geeky game in which the goal is to do Euclidean compass and straightedge constructions in as few steps as possible. It runs in the browser, found at "http://www.euclidthegame.com/". It was popular among #esoteric regulars in 2016-07. \ /hackenv/wisdom/furryscript:FurryScript is the hairiest of all esoteric languages. \ /hackenv/wisdom/#esoteric-blah:#esoteric-blah blah blah. Blah blah, blah blah blah blah. Blah b
23:45:16 <FireFly> `? #esoteric-blah
23:45:18 <HackEso> ​#esoteric-blah blah blah. Blah blah, blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah!
23:45:24 <FireFly> checks out
23:46:14 <FireFly> for some reason I thought /hackenv was the home directory/default pwd of execution
23:46:23 <int-e> it used to be
23:46:28 <FireFly> aha
23:47:25 <int-e> but it meant that a lot of crap got committed to the repo all the time
23:47:33 <FireFly> `pwd
23:47:33 <HackEso> ​/hackenv/tmp
23:47:36 <FireFly> *nod*
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23:58:18 <b_jonas> I was looking too, most of the hits are in wisdom/welcome* where the "#esoteric" is legit because it refers to the other #esoteric

2023-01-22:

00:13:30 <esolangs> [[User:KapitanGamer]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106360&oldid=106352 * KapitanGamer * (+19) 
00:14:15 <esolangs> [[User:KapitanGamer]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106361&oldid=106360 * KapitanGamer * (+6) /* My esolangs */
00:25:37 <FireFly> I guess that's just left for historical reference reasons at this point, since the channel name is unlikely to confuse anyone looking for the other #esoteric at this point
00:36:14 <b_jonas> `? libera
00:36:16 <HackEso> Libera has always been our homeland. The Chännel has been dwelling in it since the beginning of time. Any rumors about another network called "freenode" are compleetely bogus.
01:01:51 <FireFly> `? freenode
01:01:53 <HackEso> The Realm of Freenode used to be our homeland. The Chännel dwelled in it since... Uhm... Quite a few years ago?
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02:24:05 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Proxxa *  New user account
02:30:31 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106362&oldid=106359 * Proxxa * (+198) Introduce myself (Proxxa)
02:32:39 <esolangs> [[User:Proxxa]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106363 * Proxxa * (+94) Add User:Proxxa
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02:55:44 <esolangs> [[TPLTSSPP]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106364&oldid=103535 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+92) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the TPLTSSPP programming language on GitHub, modified the interpreter section text in response to the introduction, and added the category tag Implemented.
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02:56:30 <esolangs> [[TPLTSSPP]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106365&oldid=106364 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+0) Rectified an orthographic mistake in the instruction table.
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03:08:43 <GregorR> The Before Times
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04:07:23 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106366&oldid=106312 * McChuck * (+13) /* Example programs */
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04:11:58 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106367&oldid=106366 * McChuck * (-155) /* Features */
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04:25:29 <zzo38> Do you like "splice onto triggered ability"?
04:28:34 <esolangs> [[Subjective-C]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106368 * Proxxa * (+7532) Create [[Subjective-C]]
04:31:28 <esolangs> [[Talk:Micro]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106369 * Raddish0 * (+81) Created page with "Hey it's been some time. Working on a python based interpreter for this language."
04:33:06 <esolangs> [[Talk:Micro]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106370&oldid=106369 * Raddish0 * (+73) 
04:33:34 <b_jonas> zzo38: heck no. just stick to that un-mechanic where you combine one card that gives the trigger and another card that gives the effect.
04:34:36 <zzo38> Do you mean host/augment?
04:35:14 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106371&oldid=106309 * Proxxa * (+77) /* General languages */
04:35:52 <esolangs> [[Talk:Micro]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106372&oldid=106370 * Raddish0 * (+15) 
04:36:25 <esolangs> [[Talk:Micro]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106373&oldid=106372 * Raddish0 * (+7) 
04:36:59 <esolangs> [[Talk:Micro]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106374&oldid=106373 * Raddish0 * (-7) 
04:47:09 <esolangs> [[Micro]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106375&oldid=55491 * Raddish0 * (-198) 
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07:21:38 <Guest36> hi
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09:23:07 <esolangs> [[User:KapitanGamer]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106376&oldid=106361 * KapitanGamer * (+2) 
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10:03:25 <esolangs> [[ObfuscatedFuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106377 * Xyzzy * (+767) Created page with "'''ObfuscatedFuck''' is a [[Category:Brainfuck equivalents|brainfuck equivalent.]] The program is a list of tokens, each representing a bit string. By concatenating all these tokens together, you get a bitstring that can be turned into [[brainfuck]]. The tokens are:
10:06:49 <esolangs> [[ObfuscatedFuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106378&oldid=106377 * Xyzzy * (+254) 
10:35:22 <esolangs> [[TPLTSSPP]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106379&oldid=106365 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+784) Reformatted the instruction table.
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10:39:30 <esolangs> [[TPLTSSPP]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106380&oldid=106379 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+194) Added two example programs, one related to sorting, the other applying a prime factorization.
10:41:06 <esolangs> [[TPLTSSPP]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106381&oldid=106380 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+8) Improved the preamble's formatting and introduced a hyperlink to the FizzBuzz page.
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14:07:00 <esolangs> [[BooleanFunge]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106382 * KapitanGamer * (+2807) Created page with "'''BooleanFunge''' is a fungeoid by [[User:KapitanGamer]]. Has 2D program and stores data in [[stack]] with booleans. Has file extension '.boolfunge'.  The program is not stopped by borders - after crossing the border of the program, the pointer appears on the
14:14:27 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106383&oldid=106338 * KapitanGamer * (+19) 
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14:38:49 <esolangs> [[User:KapitanGamer]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106384&oldid=106376 * KapitanGamer * (+64) 
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14:40:55 <esolangs> [[User:KapitanGamer]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106385&oldid=106384 * KapitanGamer * (+32) 
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14:55:00 <esolangs> [[BooleanFunge]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106386&oldid=106382 * KapitanGamer * (+243) 
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14:56:26 <esolangs> [[BooleanFunge]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106387&oldid=106386 * KapitanGamer * (+2) 
14:57:05 <esolangs> [[BooleanFunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106388&oldid=106387 * KapitanGamer * (+1) 
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14:59:51 <esolangs> [[BooleanFunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106389&oldid=106388 * KapitanGamer * (+4) 
15:01:31 <esolangs> [[BooleanFunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106390&oldid=106389 * KapitanGamer * (+1) 
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15:30:20 <b_jonas> oh!
15:30:53 <b_jonas> Bofreingbel gives science storage. I have to build one then.
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15:49:33 <FireFly> indeed, quite good for that
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21:46:14 <int-e> > [sin (k*pi) / sin pi | k <- [8..12]]
21:46:17 <lambdabot>  [-8.0,9.0,-10.0,40.010108720931115,-12.0]
21:47:18 <int-e> > [sin (k*pi) / sin pi | k <- [0..7]]
21:47:20 <lambdabot>  [0.0,1.0,-2.0,3.0,-4.0,5.0,-6.0,7.0]
21:47:56 <int-e> "find the next element in the sequence"
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21:55:23 <b_jonas> int-e: those are Chebyshev polynomial constant terms or something?
21:56:33 <b_jonas> not quite that, but something related to Chebyshev polynomials for sure
21:57:25 <int-e> > [toRational (fromIntegral k * pi) - (fromIntegral k) * toRational pi | k <- [8..12]]
21:57:27 <lambdabot>  [0 % 1,0 % 1,0 % 1,(-1) % 281474976710656,0 % 1]
21:58:22 <int-e> It's mostly about this rounding error. As long as its 0, we're looking at sin((pi-epsilon)*k)/sin(pi-epsilon) ~ k * (-1)^k.
21:58:58 <int-e> > sin pi -- where epsilon is approximately this
21:58:59 <lambdabot>  1.2246467991473532e-16
22:02:31 <b_jonas> ah yes, because you're computing 0/0 because you're writing sin instead of cos
22:02:33 <b_jonas> makes sense
22:03:19 <b_jonas> sorry then, Chebyshev polynomials are then irrelevant
22:28:21 <b_jonas> hey look! a genqr fuvc costs 7 fgne punegf, and I have exactly 7 fgne punegf. how fortunate!
22:28:48 <b_jonas> ok now I have 8
22:29:22 <b_jonas> so buying these bofreingbevrf has uses other than increasing science storage
22:32:51 <int-e> `` tr a-z n-za-m <<<"pronouncible rot13?"
22:32:53 <HackEso> cebabhapvoyr ebg13?
23:04:17 <FireFly> `quote rot13
23:04:18 <HackEso> 787) <Gregor> !rot13 Fluttershy  Rainbow Dash  Rarity  Applejack  Twilight  Sparkle  Pinkie Pie  <EgoBot> Syhggreful  Envaobj Qnfu  Enevgl  Nccyrwnpx  Gjvyvtug Fcnexyr  Cvaxvr Cvr  <olsner> oh, they're all named after rot13'd welsh words
23:17:19 <b_jonas> well these genqr fuvc are somewhat expensive, but at least they aren't getting more expensive when I build more
23:23:44 <b_jonas> wait what?
23:24:17 <b_jonas> I must have misread the number because now it says that I need 25 fgne punegf for a genqr fuvc
23:24:20 <b_jonas> that'll be hard
23:24:48 <b_jonas> I have 10 so far
23:25:20 <b_jonas> at least the new buildings, of which I built 5, help
23:26:15 <FireFly> yep
23:26:29 <FireFly> I have some more of those, but not _that_ many more
23:26:31 <FireFly> they definitely help
23:27:15 <b_jonas> the ugly part is that to get more fgne punegf, I need to watch for rare events and click
23:27:21 <b_jonas> beacuse kittens are of course too lazy
23:27:45 <b_jonas> but at least it looks like each time I click at a rare event, I get one, so it will be quick enough
23:27:55 <FireFly> the buildings help a bit with that too (that's the 'auto' bit)
23:28:07 <FireFly> (it's a low% chance but adds up when idling)
23:28:08 <b_jonas> yep
23:28:20 <b_jonas> I need to wait for the wood anyway
23:29:24 <b_jonas> but I'm afraid the genqr fuvc are expendible and I'll need way more than just one
23:33:18 <b_jonas> also the next science upgrade, Nepuvgrpgher is now reachable, even if expensive
23:33:44 <b_jonas> that will probably be useful
23:34:46 <b_jonas> well I'll just get that science and one of the crafted item, and I'll see what they unlock
23:35:23 <FireFly> I have way too many plates
23:35:35 <b_jonas> FireFly: did the steamworks auto-make them?
23:36:05 <FireFly> it's mostly that I keep hitting 'all' on steel then plate, and steel has so many uses but plate less so
23:36:23 <FireFly> (also that the income of iron is higher)
23:36:27 <b_jonas> yeah
23:36:54 <FireFly> I mean I guess it's a good problem to have, there's a decent stockpile of plates.. but still
23:36:57 <b_jonas> you can give the rest of the iron to sharks, but that's limited by how much gold you can make
23:37:09 <FireFly> they'll come in Eventually
23:37:16 <FireFly> come in handy*
23:38:12 <FireFly> can't wait to reach this tech that's two techs away, but.. I need a bunch more science cap for that

2023-01-23:

00:15:22 <b_jonas> ah. so I got the science upgrade, and it unlocks the building that you were talking about
00:16:15 <b_jonas> and it also unlocks another building
00:16:29 <b_jonas> wait, it unlocks three types of buildings total apparently
00:17:18 <b_jonas> ooh, these look useful
00:23:14 <FireFly> wait, which building I was talking about? :p
00:24:03 <b_jonas> FireFly: the one that lets you spend catpower automatically
00:24:32 <FireFly> ah
00:24:32 <b_jonas> Zvag
00:24:34 <FireFly> yeah
00:24:49 <FireFly> it also solves another problem you wanted to address, too ;p
00:25:02 <b_jonas> indeed
00:25:26 <b_jonas> these will be useful toys
00:37:47 <b_jonas> meanwhile I'm slowly finding out about all these ages. previous one was Dune, current one is Piscine
00:37:56 <b_jonas> strange horoscope
00:38:28 <b_jonas> also right now I actually need more plates, because both the craftable item and one of the new buildings need them
00:39:11 <b_jonas> 3 more fgnepunegf for the item by the way
00:43:16 <b_jonas> well I crafted the genqr fuvc but it's not obvious what it did. Either I need more than one to reveal something, or I just have to rkcyber and hope it gives a different message
00:44:16 <FireFly> I find it amusing the rot13 of that contains 'cyber'
00:44:32 <FireFly> probably the closest I've seen to rot13-of-a-word-is-another-word
00:44:45 <FireFly> maybe other than funpuns
00:44:47 <b_jonas> that was probably unnecessary to censor
00:48:26 <shachaf> FireFly: Hmm, the rot13 of "vex" is "irk", is one example people give.
00:49:08 <FireFly> shachaf: does funpuns ping you?
00:49:34 <FireFly> feels like there has to be an example longer than 3 characters in english.. surely...
00:49:47 <shachaf> It does.
00:50:11 <b_jonas> FireFly: hmm, let me check a dictionary
00:51:08 <zzo38> I have seen "abjurer" and "nowhere" as pair of rot13
00:51:45 <FireFly> that is pretty good
00:52:01 <FireFly> right, but I should get some sleep, g'night
00:52:59 <b_jonas> nice, I just had to explore
00:54:42 <shachaf> zzo38's example is the longest good one I see in this words file called "american-english-insane".
00:55:07 <shachaf> There's also "purpura"/"chechen".
00:55:45 <FireFly> b_jonas: congrats on making some new.. friends...
00:56:35 <shachaf> Of course, "funpuns" isn't a single word, presumably you'd be fine with things like that.
00:56:55 <FireFly> sure
00:57:13 <FireFly> I'm not a prescriptivist, I'm liberal with what I'd consider a word
00:57:25 <shachaf> But that's too annoying for a ghci one-liner so I guess it'll remain a mystery.
00:57:37 <shachaf> Hmm, robyn/ebola seems good. I don't think I know any Robyns, though.
00:58:44 <shachaf> anna/naan
01:00:46 <b_jonas> dictionary says the longest rot13 pair is 4 letters long
01:01:21 <b_jonas> envy/rail, sync/flap, gnat/tang, pent/crag, gung/that, onyx/balk
01:02:23 <shachaf> Oh, I like gnat/tang.
01:03:21 <b_jonas> shorter ones include or/be, bar/one, vs/if, fur/she, nan/aha, gel/try, nag/ant (semantically appropriate like the irk/vex)
01:03:32 <shachaf> The longest word I see with the property that rot13 = reverse is tavering
01:04:12 <b_jonas> I didn't search any larger dictionaries but they'd just find rare words, this has all common and uncommon words
01:04:56 <shachaf> zzo38's example abjurer/nowhere seems pretty good.
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01:08:47 <zzo38> I had also figured out some of these before too, working on a paper. Furthermore, "gnat/tang" is also reverse, too (I had then also considered reverse, too)
01:08:50 <b_jonas> right, "abjurer" is just not in the small dictionary
01:10:08 <b_jonas> "Your explorers failed to find anyone. *** Znlor lbh ner abg fpvragvsvp rabhtu. ***" do you mean I need an Nfgebynor, which requires titanium?
01:10:23 <b_jonas> but this hostile civilization that I discovered can give me titanium
01:10:35 <b_jonas> quite slowly, but they can
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05:58:06 <fizzie> The amount of titanium from those folks is affected by the amount of a thing you have.
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07:11:36 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * PavelVoronin *  New user account
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07:19:09 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106391&oldid=106362 * PavelVoronin * (+165) /* Introductions */
07:20:09 <esolangs> [[User:PavelVoronin]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106392 * PavelVoronin * (+65) Created page with "Hi! My name is Pavel, I'm the author of the [[Motherf]] language."
07:29:07 <esolangs> [[Motherf]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106393 * PavelVoronin * (+2953) Motherf language
07:32:19 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106394&oldid=105173 * PavelVoronin * (+143) /* Related languages */
07:34:04 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck derivatives]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106395&oldid=104996 * PavelVoronin * (+165) 
07:42:01 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck extensions]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106396&oldid=95366 * PavelVoronin * (+116) 
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10:54:22 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106397&oldid=106367 * McChuck * (-4) /* Stacklist: A stackless, stack based concatenative language */
11:19:38 <myname> there was an esolang that only consisted of parantheses and implemented lambda calculus, wasn't there?
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12:11:37 <wib_jonas> not quite parenthesis, but are you thinking of https://esolangs.org/wiki/Binary_combinatory_logic ?
12:12:07 <wib_jonas> no wait, I mean https://esolangs.org/wiki/Binary_lambda_calculus
12:32:30 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Duck3456 *  New user account
12:35:21 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106398&oldid=106383 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+14) /* M */ add
12:37:35 <esolangs> [[Motherf]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106399&oldid=106393 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+98) /* External resources */ Categories
12:37:52 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106400&oldid=106391 * Duck3456 * (+94) 
12:38:32 <esolangs> [[Motherf]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106401&oldid=106399 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+64) /* External resources */ Categories
12:43:50 <esolangs> [[Subjective-C]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106402&oldid=106368 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+23) /* Subjectivity */ Category
12:46:37 <esolangs> [[RarVM]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106403&oldid=87919 * Void * (+39) 
13:26:42 <GregorR> myname: That's called Scheme ;)
13:52:16 <esolangs> [[BytePusher]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106404&oldid=70171 * Duck3456 * (+116) 
14:34:50 <esolangs> [[Daniel Brockman]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106405&oldid=8071 * SpaceByte * (+9) 
14:50:49 <esolangs> [[User:SpaceByte]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106406&oldid=106317 * SpaceByte * (+58) mAKE THIs
15:08:15 <esolangs> [[User talk:No]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106407 * SpaceByte * (+149) Created page with "== who == Are you related to [[User:Yes]] in some way lol. --~~~~"
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15:22:40 <esolangs> [[UserNo]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106408 * No * (+1823) good language
15:23:18 <esolangs> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106409&oldid=106398 * No * (+13) 
15:23:46 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106410&oldid=106371 * No * (+13) 
15:24:35 <esolangs> [[UserNo]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106411&oldid=106408 * No * (+28) 
15:25:05 <esolangs> [[User:No]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106412&oldid=106245 * No * (+76) 
15:25:18 <esolangs> [[User:No]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106413&oldid=106412 * No * (+6) 
15:25:34 <esolangs> [[User talk:No]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106414&oldid=106407 * No * (+87) 
15:26:47 <esolangs> [[User:No]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106415&oldid=106413 * No * (+170) 
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17:07:30 <esolangs> [[Category:Audio Output]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106416 * KapitanGamer * (+176) Created page with "Programming languages that have standard support for sounds built into the language or library.  (e.g. C# is not in this category as it can only handle sounds from Unity)"
17:10:11 <esolangs> [[Category:Games]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106417 * KapitanGamer * (+41) Redirected page to [[Category:Programming games]]
17:28:54 <esolangs> [[User:KapitanGamer]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106418&oldid=106385 * KapitanGamer * (+37) /* Coming soon */
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17:30:03 <esolangs> [[BooleanFunge]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106419&oldid=106390 * KapitanGamer * (+12) Fungeoid
17:30:58 <esolangs> [[BooleanFunge]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106420&oldid=106419 * KapitanGamer * (+0) 
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17:34:29 <esolangs> [[BooleanFunge]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106421&oldid=106420 * KapitanGamer * (+90) Coming soon
17:34:50 <esolangs> [[BooleanFunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106422&oldid=106421 * KapitanGamer * (+0) 
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17:58:50 <esolangs> [[BooleanFunge]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106423&oldid=106422 * KapitanGamer * (+0) 
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18:00:29 <esolangs> [[BooleanFunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106424&oldid=106423 * KapitanGamer * (-10) /* Write H */
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18:03:50 <esolangs> [[BooleanFunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106425&oldid=106424 * KapitanGamer * (+1) /* Write H */
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18:11:24 <esolangs> [[Number]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106426&oldid=105939 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+78) /* Interpreter */ Categories
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19:58:37 <esolangs> [[Category:Audio Output]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106427&oldid=106416 * SpaceByte * (-75) Removed the last bit. That is an outlandish claim as you expect it to be impossible to run audio from C# without unity? There are built-in libraries for that.
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20:47:19 <FireFly> \o/ my kittens finally learned the science of Vaqhfgevnyvmngvba
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22:02:08 <int-e> I rather suspect my kittens will be stuck in the year 71 forever.
22:04:13 <int-e> they just got religion
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23:12:58 <FireFly> heh
23:29:19 <esolangs> [[User talk:Yes]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106428&oldid=106315 * Yes * (+81) 
23:30:14 <esolangs> [[User talk:Yes]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106429&oldid=106428 * Yes * (+105) 
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23:53:01 <esolangs> [[Hello++++++++++++++++]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106430 * Yes * (+1425) Created page with "Hello++++++++ is a joke language by [[User:Yes]], made after [[User:SpaceByte]] challenged [[User:Yes]] to adapt [[Hello++++++++]] and make this. <br> It is based on [[Hello++++++++]] which is based on [[Hello++++]] which is based on [[Hello++]] which is based
23:55:01 <esolangs> [[User talk:Yes]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106431&oldid=106429 * Yes * (+164) 
23:55:13 <esolangs> [[User talk:Yes]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106432&oldid=106431 * Yes * (+72) 

2023-01-24:

00:01:55 <esolangs> [[User:Yes]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106433&oldid=104289 * Yes * (+88) 
00:06:19 <esolangs> [[Disk Drive]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106434 * Yes * (+80) Created page with "[[|Disk Drive Redirect Subsitute Thing For Systems That Can't Display ]]"
00:06:43 <esolangs> [[User:Yes]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106435&oldid=106433 * Yes * (+16) 
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02:53:52 <esolangs> [[User talk:Yes]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106436&oldid=106432 * SpaceByte * (+249) 
03:37:47 <esolangs> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106437&oldid=101283 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+124) Categories
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05:28:17 <zzo38> Today I was at a airport and they had a Realistic PRO-2023 radio. I think it could have been better designed; there is no indication of whether it is in scan mode or manual mode, and you cannot select a frequency unless you program that frequency first.
05:30:37 <zzo38> (Also, it has four bands but not the ordinary AM/FM bands.)
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05:53:31 <esolangs> [[Motherf]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106438&oldid=106401 * PavelVoronin * (-39) /* Usage */
05:53:48 <esolangs> [[Motherf]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106439&oldid=106438 * PavelVoronin * (-25) /* Roadmap */
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13:04:55 <esolangs> [[Electra]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106440&oldid=106358 * DolphyWind * (-5) /* Cables (-, |, +, X, \*, \\, /, {, }, U, n) */
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14:39:51 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106441&oldid=106410 * SpaceByte * (+28) added hello++++++++++++++++
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16:22:41 <FireFly> welp.. I think I accidentally commited felinicide whilst afk, I guess my catnip margins were a bit tight
16:22:52 <FireFly> >.<
16:23:03 <FireFly> oh well, the run was already "tainted", otherwise I'd probably restore from backup
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16:45:55 <esolangs> [[OZZo]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106442&oldid=106256 * Zip * (+76) added categories, changed "Fly" to "User:Fly"
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16:51:41 <wib_jonas> so you got the foretold seven bad years and it took more than the catnip you had stored, just like I am so afraid with my kittens
16:51:56 <wib_jonas> or you didn't adjust food supply after all the new advances made your kittens happier than ever
16:52:35 <wib_jonas> and with all the luxury and circuses they had, they couldn't help but remain happy as they died of starvation
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17:39:08 <FireFly> well happier farmers produce more catnip too :p
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18:17:18 <esolangs> [[PRINT]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106443 * SpaceByte * (+3214) Created page with "{{lowercase}} {{infobox proglang |name=pRINT |author=[[User:SpaceByte]] |class=[[:Category:Uncomputable|Uncomputable]] |year=[[:Category:2023|2023]] |majorimpl=[[#Interpreters|Implementations]] |files=<code>none/code> }} '''pRINT''' is an esolang by [[User:SpaceByte]], 
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18:20:41 <esolangs> [[PRINT]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106444&oldid=106443 * SpaceByte * (+27) /* Java Interpreter. By User:SpaceByte */
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18:20:55 <esolangs> [[PRINT]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106445&oldid=106444 * SpaceByte * (-22) 
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18:21:40 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106446&oldid=106441 * SpaceByte * (+12) 
18:22:59 <esolangs> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106447&oldid=106409 * SpaceByte * (+12) /* P */
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18:25:12 <esolangs> [[User:SpaceByte]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106448&oldid=106406 * SpaceByte * (+12) 
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19:37:37 <int-e> `"
19:37:40 <HackEso> 1/1:1315) <Aearnus> i'm sending this from within a computer on minecraft \ 866) <fizzie> GreyKnight: And Gregor itself is kind of a probability distribution spread all over the globe.
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20:00:11 <b_jonas> FireFly: yes, but the problem is not average catnip production but local lows during bad weather, and the catnip storage capacity doesn't increase for happier cats
20:00:29 <b_jonas> also I'm not sure if the happyness increases hunger and production proportionally
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20:04:58 <FireFly> yeah but I'm sure the capacity is sufficient
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20:17:22 <FireFly> I think I'll just abandon this kittens run, I've played it before anyway :p
20:21:03 <esolangs> [[PRINT]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106449&oldid=106445 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+67) Infobox, categories
20:21:45 <esolangs> [[PRINT]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106450&oldid=106449 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+25) /* Java Interpreter. By User:SpaceByte */ Category
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21:59:39 <esolangs> [[OATMEAL]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106451 * BoundedBeans * (+7090) Created page with "OATMEAL ('''O'''at-'''A'''ctivated '''T'''ape-based '''M'''ultiprogramming '''E'''ngine '''A'''t '''L'''ast) is a programming language by [[User:BoundedBeans]] which prides itself on also being a short notation for oatmeal platters (You know, if you're having guest
22:00:10 <esolangs> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106452&oldid=106447 * BoundedBeans * (+14) 
22:04:56 <esolangs> [[User:BoundedBeans]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106453&oldid=106065 * BoundedBeans * (-428) Restored list format instead of language families
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22:39:54 <esolangs> [[OATMEAL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106454&oldid=106451 * BoundedBeans * (+8) Fixed Hi
22:44:01 <esolangs> [[OATMEAL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106455&oldid=106454 * BoundedBeans * (+41) Clarified {@@} and =@=
22:45:03 <esolangs> [[OATMEAL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106456&oldid=106455 * BoundedBeans * (+4) Changed "number" to "position" in =$$=
22:49:16 <esolangs> [[OATMEAL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106457&oldid=106456 * BoundedBeans * (+118) Clarified various things
22:49:58 <esolangs> [[OATMEAL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106458&oldid=106457 * BoundedBeans * (+1) fixed grammar mistake
22:52:48 <esolangs> [[OATMEAL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106459&oldid=106458 * BoundedBeans * (+1) fixed grammar mistake
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23:23:55 <esolangs> [[User talk:Yes]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106460&oldid=106436 * Yes * (+121) 
23:27:44 <esolangs> [[!I!M!P!O!S!S!I!B!L!E!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106461&oldid=104310 * BoundedBeans * (+29) Added turning tarpits category

2023-01-25:

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14:52:28 <esolangs> [[User:SpaceByte/Sandbox]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106462 * SpaceByte * (+37) Created page with "= Sandbox = I'll use this eventually."
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15:38:03 <Koen> hello
15:38:21 <Koen> would anyone recognise which brainfuck derivative on the wiki is closest to the one described there? https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/257017/implement-a-2fuck-interpreter
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16:11:28 <esolangs> [[PRINT]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106463&oldid=106450 * SpaceByte * (+0) 
16:13:02 <esolangs> [[PRINT]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106464&oldid=106463 * SpaceByte * (+151) fixed c#
16:42:16 <GregorR> Koen: It's a fungeoid, so take your pick: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Fungeoid
16:45:07 <GregorR> No it's not, I lie X-D
16:45:16 <GregorR> Somehow it looked so 2-dimensional X-D
16:45:46 <GregorR> No, I'm right. This is a confusingly described language.
16:45:53 <GregorR> Ignore my previous three lines.
16:53:22 <Koen> it is a 2-dimensional brainfuck
16:55:15 <Koen> but only the instructions are on a 2d grid. the data tape is a simple brainfuck data tape.
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18:42:12 <esolangs> [[PRINT]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106465&oldid=106464 * SpaceByte * (+607) next
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19:05:58 <esolangs> [[PRINT]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106466&oldid=106465 * SpaceByte * (+877) 
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20:04:26 <fizzie> I'm back, and while I was gone the kitties had built up a stockpile of 20G beam, 13G slab, 444M plate, 1G steel, 25K ryhqvhz, 2.68M xrebfrar, 2.36M gubevhz, 10K nyvpbeaf, 126K eryvp and 1584 ibvq.
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21:10:24 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106467&oldid=106397 * McChuck * (+2) /* Example programs */
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2023-01-26:

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04:07:49 <esolangs> [[BoolX]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106468&oldid=92297 * Andrea Calligaris * (-7) /* If-else statements example */ fix comment
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06:06:38 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * SophiaCristina *  New user account
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06:10:16 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106469&oldid=106400 * SophiaCristina * (+194) 
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06:49:47 <zzo38> Are there good test cases for Magic: the Gathering? One idea is to do similar than Free Hero Mesh (puzzles = test cases), but there are complications, such as lack of good references, rule changes, and many others.
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07:07:13 <esolangs> [[LRONETWO]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106470 * SophiaCristina * (+4135) Created page with "'''LRONETWO''' is single instruction machine created by [[User: SophiaCristina|SophiaCristina]] that uses a pretty simple logic to work. It was not tested for Turing-completeness, but it is possible to arbitrarily modify each bit, which would render it Turing-co
07:17:06 <esolangs> [[User:SophiaCristina]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106471 * SophiaCristina * (+552) Created page with "Hello world! I'm Sophia Cristina, aka: ySPHAx! I may edit this page to add more stuffs about me.  I love programming, trading, music production and electronic music (all kinds)! I love signal processing! That is my area of programming! I love C++ and m
07:17:35 <esolangs> [[User:SophiaCristina]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106472&oldid=106471 * SophiaCristina * (+10) 
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07:24:55 <esolangs> [[LRONETWO]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106473&oldid=106470 * SophiaCristina * (+156) 
07:27:24 <esolangs> [[LRONETWO]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106474&oldid=106473 * SophiaCristina * (+1) 
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11:00:17 <esolangs> [[LRONETWO]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106475&oldid=106474 * SophiaCristina * (+251) 
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11:08:35 <esolangs> [[LRONETWO]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106476&oldid=106475 * SophiaCristina * (+4) 
11:11:15 <esolangs> [[LRONETWO]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106477&oldid=106476 * SophiaCristina * (-40) 
11:16:28 <esolangs> [[LRONETWO]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106478&oldid=106477 * SophiaCristina * (-47) 
11:17:04 <esolangs> [[LRONETWO]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106479&oldid=106478 * SophiaCristina * (+8) 
11:17:43 <esolangs> [[LRONETWO]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106480&oldid=106479 * SophiaCristina * (-49) 
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13:42:00 <esolangs> [[X7]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106481&oldid=103939 * LyricLy * (-2037) Update syntax
13:44:55 <esolangs> [[User:Imcute]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106482&oldid=103913 * Imcute * (+76) 
14:35:55 <esolangs> [[User talk:BoundedBeans]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106483 * SpaceByte * (+194) Created page with "== Challenge == I challenge you to make an interpreter for [[pRINT]], in any language, esoteric or not. --~~~~"
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14:52:28 <esolangs> [[ETA]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106484&oldid=106257 * Xyzzy * (+0) 
14:53:00 <esolangs> [[ETA]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106485&oldid=106484 * Xyzzy * (+0) 
15:00:43 <esolangs> [[PRINT]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106486&oldid=106466 * SpaceByte * (+4189) yes
15:03:51 <esolangs> [[PRINT]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106487&oldid=106486 * SpaceByte * (+8) 
15:26:49 <esolangs> [[PRINT]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106488&oldid=106487 * SpaceByte * (+629) Updated Interpreters except bf and c. New feature.
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15:55:01 <esolangs> [[PRINT]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106489&oldid=106488 * SpaceByte * (+19) 
15:55:16 <esolangs> [[PRINT]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106490&oldid=106489 * SpaceByte * (+3) 
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16:15:52 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * SMA *  uploaded "[[File:BiTrax Truth machine.png]]"
16:19:31 <esolangs> [[GAXT]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106492&oldid=104872 * Fancryer * (+4) 
16:27:05 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * SMA *  uploaded "[[File:BiTrax Truth machine arrows.png]]"
16:33:23 <esolangs> [[LRONETWO]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106494&oldid=106480 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+44) /* Intuitive explanation */ Categories
16:43:03 <esolangs> [[BiTrax]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106495&oldid=105249 * SMA * (+625) Truth-machine example
16:50:40 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106496&oldid=105512 * SMA * (+81) BiTrax implementation
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19:03:08 <esolangs> [[Javagony/Brainfuck Reduction]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106497 * SpaceByte * (+2123) Created page with ":{{Back|Javagony}} [[Javagony]] has already been proven turing complete by [[User:PythonshellDebugWindow]], through the implementation of a [[brainfuck]] interpreter, however, it would be easy to prove it turning complete by simply reducing it TO 
19:03:44 <esolangs> [[Javagony/Brainfuck Reduction]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106498&oldid=106497 * SpaceByte * (+0) 
19:04:03 <esolangs> [[Javagony]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106499&oldid=74893 * SpaceByte * (+35) 
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19:59:59 <esolangs> [[User:SpaceByte]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106500&oldid=106448 * SpaceByte * (+35) 
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22:02:58 <esolangs> [[X7]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106501&oldid=106481 * LyricLy * (+0) Replace braces with backticks in masking section
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22:13:55 <esolangs> [[Double]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106502&oldid=104361 * Lim95 * (-538) 
22:14:24 <esolangs> [[Double]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106503&oldid=106502 * Lim95 * (-7) 
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22:22:18 <esolangs> [[Double]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106504&oldid=106503 * Lim95 * (-34) 
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10:17:41 <esolangs> [[X7]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106505&oldid=106501 * LyricLy * (+993) Grouping
10:41:36 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * PyGamer0 *  New user account
10:46:17 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106506&oldid=106469 * PyGamer0 * (+212) my introduction
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11:26:53 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * JohnBCoraline *  New user account
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11:41:01 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106507&oldid=106506 * JohnBCoraline * (+506) I cant fucking do this anymore
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12:14:01 <esolangs> [[X7]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106508&oldid=106505 * LyricLy * (-99) Add infobox and link implementation
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12:56:40 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106509&oldid=106507 * JohnBCoraline * (+141) 
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13:05:37 <JohnBCoraline> hey guys
13:06:17 <JohnBCoraline> how are you all doing?
13:06:34 <JohnBCoraline> ...
13:06:37 <JohnBCoraline> Hello?
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13:50:10 <GregorR> JohnBCoraline: Not sure what timezone you're in, but it's 8:45AM in the US/Canada Eastern timezone, and earlier than that in more westerly US timezones, so a lot of people aren't up ;)
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14:14:01 <i-wanna-fkn-stab> i leave 120000 tabs open, so that why y i get pinged out so ften, sry
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14:24:14 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106510&oldid=106467 * McChuck * (+16) /* Features */
14:26:53 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106511&oldid=106510 * McChuck * (+92) /* Listack: A stackless, stack based concatenative language */
14:27:45 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106512&oldid=106511 * McChuck * (+30) /* Listack: A stackless, stack based concatenative language */
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15:13:18 <esolangs> [[Listack]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106513&oldid=106512 * McChuck * (+28) /* External resources */
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16:46:21 <esolangs> [[BooleanFunge]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106514&oldid=106425 * KapitanGamer * (+31) 
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17:02:07 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Woltvint *  New user account
17:06:52 <esolangs> [[BooleanFunge]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106515&oldid=106514 * KapitanGamer * (+196) 
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17:39:00 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106516&oldid=106452 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+15) /* L */ add
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17:54:00 <shachaf> `olist 1274
17:54:01 <HackEso> olist <https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1274.html>: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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18:46:25 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * 4yrka4yro4niy *  New user account
18:47:23 <Guest59> write a advance the wheel! compiler in bf that compiles to bf
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2023-01-28:

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05:34:30 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Example99 *  New user account
05:37:30 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106517&oldid=106509 * Example99 * (+102) /* Introductions */
05:38:22 <esolangs> [[IRP]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106518&oldid=83152 * Example99 * (+1) 
05:43:43 <esolangs> [[Talk:IRP]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106519&oldid=19947 * Example99 * (+133) /* Turing-complete? */
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05:49:24 -!- Guest59 has set topic: Welcome to the twentieth international hub of esoteric programming language analysis!| https://esolangs.org | logs: https://logs.esolangs.org/logs.
05:49:38 -!- Guest59 has set topic: Welcome to the twentieth international hub of esoteric programming language analysis!| https://esolangs.org | logs: https://logs.esolangs.org.
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06:25:07 <esolangs> [[Velocityfuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106520&oldid=104223 * Esolang1 * (+48) Update: Behavior
06:34:20 <esolangs> [[Enrtopy++]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106521&oldid=104244 * Esolang1 * (+0) Fixed typos: I/O
07:04:00 <esolangs> [[User:Esolang1]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106522&oldid=104230 * Esolang1 * (+428) Change layout: Languages
07:06:11 <esolangs> [[User:Esolang1]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106523&oldid=106522 * Esolang1 * (+1) Fix typo: Languages
07:08:55 <esolangs> [[User:Esolang1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106524&oldid=106523 * Esolang1 * (+4) Fixed typos: languages
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09:48:21 <esolangs> [[X7]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106525&oldid=106508 * LyricLy * (+578) Add mnemonics and document !
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10:36:28 <esolangs> [[Leftbracket]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106526 * Otesunki * (+296) Created page with "{{wrongtitle|title=[}}  '''[''' is an esoteric programming language by [[User:Otesunki]] to fulfill an ongoing joke in a discord conversation. It contains exactly one valid source code file: <pre>[</pre>Which on execution destroys the universe.  [[Category:Languages
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13:01:51 <esolangs> [[X7]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106527&oldid=106525 * LyricLy * (+17) Add comparison
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13:19:34 <Guest59> im ok
13:19:40 <Guest59> litterally
13:22:13 <Guest59> ^[ APic
13:22:48 <Guest59> bfdgdsysssmnwBASGJKsbdhadskayhcufvikdfdjkbfdvknfdhgiksnhvkfdlhdjkirefgnck xjmshrefxifivdnjfkvumjdvuik,hdjsfl.c sm,dd djjnjd mfng
13:22:51 <Guest59> fvn+#
13:22:52 <Guest59> hbn mj,
13:22:53 <Guest59> bh
13:23:11 <Guest59> bhjjnnhgfuzjmnh bmuhjbjgum n gtvgzjmn hgjmhn bhjnb vcnhgbvnm vbv ghuzhgnfgzughjnjkoihzjuihfghjgcfghjvcghjcjuzjfzfttvbgtzvgujmhbjhtvdx65tng
13:23:12 <Guest59> bfdefrzjug,jhljlyöowiopÄLKSDÖPLPKÖO,OÖPÖLX,,LAOMIÄKÖLJKDSKJDHEFDSSDJFKCHDJSKAGaKSHJSHKDJGNKHKGHKHVFKJJassdjdffkdhjjhfjrekuhdjsawhfdkshfcxdkashvbjdskjbfdskuhgjsdkfhdkshfbdjsbfdsjfgvbjfdsfcvjxfdhfcvxdsfcfdskuhf
13:25:22 <int-e> uhm
13:26:17 <APic> ☺
13:26:30 * APic wants to see the Interpreter for that Lang 😉
13:27:17 <Guest59> =$ D: (y) :] =# :O =L 8) \O/ X) >.< =( X-P =* ;D =D </3 <3 :b O:3 ;( :@ '=( XD '=D :') -_-
13:27:24 <int-e> my ideas are cleaning keyboard or a cat
13:27:36 <Guest59> =$  D:  (y)  :]  =#  :O  =L  8)  \O/  X)  >.<  =(  X-P  =*  ;D  =D  </3  <3  :b  O:3  ;(  :@  '=(  XD  '=D  :')  -_-
13:28:04 <Guest59> gh
13:28:05 <Guest59> vg
13:28:06 <Guest59> v
13:28:07 <Guest59> hgj
13:28:11 <Guest59> v v v v
13:28:20 <int-e> Guest59: please stop
13:28:24 <Guest59> v int-e man
13:29:20 <Guest59> stop it
13:29:29 <Guest59> int-e
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13:59:30 -!- b_jonas has set topic: Welcome to the twentieth international hub of esoteric programming language analysis, adoption, anniversary, and kittens! | https://esolangs.org | logs: https://logs.esolangs.org/.
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17:57:48 <esolangs> [[X7]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106528&oldid=106527 * LyricLy * (+99) Add while
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19:12:17 <esolangs> [[X7]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106529&oldid=106528 * LyricLy * (+450) Document pairs
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19:48:22 <esolangs> [[Electra]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106530&oldid=106440 * DolphyWind * (+404) 
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20:00:25 <esolangs> [[Apollo Guidance Computer]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106531&oldid=91594 * B jonas * (+0) /* Instruction set */ typo
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20:15:41 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o int-e.
20:15:55 -!- int-e has set channel mode: -bo *!*@2001:9e8:672e:c600:* int-e.
20:16:36 <int-e> (Let's give this another try in case they return.)
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20:26:51 <b_jonas> wait, that irker wasn't from wibchat?
20:27:17 <b_jonas> I assumed because of the nick
20:29:25 <int-e> nope
20:30:09 <int-e> actually, yes they were, but the webchat has gotten better at making users identifiable?
20:30:37 <int-e> Either that, or it was a very broad ban because I didn't think about it.
20:30:44 <b_jonas> int-e: IIRC the webchat always put the user's ip in the realname, and you can match on realname with an extba
20:31:02 <b_jonas> also they were using a german keyboard apparently
20:31:23 <int-e> Right, I saw that too.
20:31:45 <b_jonas> (I was wondering at first if it was german or swedish)
20:31:55 <int-e> I didn't mind that part... I minded the part where it became obvious that it was deliberate and not stopping.
20:32:03 <b_jonas> but the +# gives it away
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22:01:21 <int-e> b_jonas: I just tested it; the webchat puts the client's host as the hostname, not the web server's.
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22:20:11 <b_jonas> int-e: oh, that's changed since I looked at it several years ago back before the 2021 drama
22:20:28 <int-e> yeah, and it's a good change.
22:20:56 <b_jonas> int-e: how do you know which connections are using wibchat then? 
22:22:42 <int-e> /whois knows... I guess the most reliable tell is the irc server name (since the webchat is its own irc server now).
22:23:12 <b_jonas> I mean couldn't they just use a cloak but encode the address of the client into it? there's enough space because hostnames can go up to 63 bytes, whereas an ipv6 address notated in colonned hexa goes up to 39 bytes
22:23:28 <b_jonas> ah I see
22:23:40 <b_jonas> so you just look at the server name from the WHO
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2023-01-29:

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00:59:49 <int-e> hmm impomatic has been unstable for over a week already
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07:50:48 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106532&oldid=105009 * JohnBCoraline * (+3) /* a */
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08:00:16 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106533&oldid=106532 * JohnBCoraline * (+36) making page
08:00:30 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106534&oldid=106533 * JohnBCoraline * (+1) /* Other Other stuff */
08:07:27 <esolangs> [[Monofuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106535 * JohnBCoraline * (+185) monofuck
08:08:43 <esolangs> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106536&oldid=106516 * JohnBCoraline * (+15) /* M */
08:09:51 <esolangs> [[Monofuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106537&oldid=106535 * JohnBCoraline * (+29) 
08:10:05 <esolangs> [[Monofuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106538&oldid=106537 * JohnBCoraline * (+3) 
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10:08:20 <esolangs> [[GAXT]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106539&oldid=106492 * Fancryer * (+160) 
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10:13:17 <esolangs> [[GAXT]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106540&oldid=106539 * Fancryer * (-1) 
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12:25:41 <esolangs> [[Monofuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106541&oldid=106538 * JohnBCoraline * (+7) 
12:27:04 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106542&oldid=106534 * JohnBCoraline * (+15) /* Other Other stuff */
12:27:14 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106543&oldid=106542 * JohnBCoraline * (-1) /* Other Other stuff */
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12:41:37 <esolangs> [[Gototape]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106544 * JohnBCoraline * (+836) Created page with "'''Gototape''' is a [[Turing-complete]] language on a biderectional tape where each cell is a int. every cell is by deafault 0. There is no explicit input or output. At the end of the programme is finished, it prints the entire tape (in the format " int int int in
12:42:07 <esolangs> [[Gototape]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106545&oldid=106544 * JohnBCoraline * (+3) 
12:42:25 <esolangs> [[Gototape]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106546&oldid=106545 * JohnBCoraline * (+11) 
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13:17:52 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106547&oldid=106446 * DockedChutoy * (+79) 7 bytes XD added
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19:04:37 <esolangs> [[Monofuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106548&oldid=106541 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+58) Categories
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14:22:23 <esolangs> [[User:JohnBCoraline]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106549 * JohnBCoraline * (+1) Created page with "x"
14:26:17 <esolangs> [[User talk:JohnBCoraline]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106550 * SpaceByte * (+96) Created page with "=x= x --~~~~"
14:30:20 <esolangs> [[Clickclang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106551&oldid=106334 * SpaceByte * (+26) 
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14:34:31 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106552&oldid=106513 * McChuck * (-7) /* Example programs */
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14:40:05 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106553&oldid=106552 * McChuck * (+95) /* Example programs */
14:41:41 <esolangs> [[Listack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106554&oldid=106553 * McChuck * (+16) /* Example programs */
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20:33:52 <esolangs> [[X7]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106555&oldid=106529 * LyricLy * (+825) Document changes to instruction names and new variables
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21:13:32 <esolangs> [[OISC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106556&oldid=105042 * Tomhe * (+71) Add a more correct & complete summery about OISC2/3
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23:24:00 <esolangs> [[THIS IS NOT A BRAINFUCK DERIVATIVE]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106557&oldid=89428 * Indigo * (+51) Wrap code
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23:28:50 <esolangs> [[X7]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106558&oldid=106555 * LyricLy * (+188) Document pick
23:30:14 <esolangs> [[X7]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106559&oldid=106558 * LyricLy * (+0) Give ne the right mnemonic
23:31:53 <esolangs> [[X7]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106560&oldid=106559 * LyricLy * (+5) Change mnemonics for Q and R
23:33:30 <esolangs> [[X7]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106561&oldid=106560 * LyricLy * (+3) Add missing word
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00:34:34 <esolangs> [[Ars]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106562&oldid=106239 * Nurdle * (+63) /* Computational Class */
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01:52:07 <esolangs> [[The Insane Esolang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106563&oldid=91105 * LyricLy * (+0) Update pronouns
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05:16:54 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * DevBadger *  New user account
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10:16:29 <esolangs> [[User:Palaiologos]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106564&oldid=99200 * Palaiologos * (-942) rephrase a few things and mention inactivity
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11:36:28 <esolangs> [[User talk:JohnBCoraline]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106565&oldid=106550 * JohnBCoraline * (+103) 
11:40:25 <esolangs> [[User talk:JohnBCoraline]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106566&oldid=106565 * JohnBCoraline * (+6) 
12:11:12 <esolangs> [[X7]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106567&oldid=106561 * LyricLy * (+189) Document lift
12:22:19 <esolangs> [[X7]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106568&oldid=106567 * LyricLy * (+0) Use D instead of /
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12:37:52 <razetime> what is the process to become an esolangs.org moderator?
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13:19:25 <wib_jonas> https://i.stack.imgur.com/xgDas.png gratuitious plot of the CDF of some distribution. {0: 0, 0.122: 0.25, 0.325: 0.5, 0.613: 0.75, 1: 1}
13:34:05 <wib_jonas> (the third digit of those quartiles might not be correct)
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14:07:54 <wib_jonas> higher precision quartiles: {0: 0, 0.121: 1/4, 0.325: 2/4, 0.612: 3/4, 1: 1}
14:45:46 <wib_jonas> https://i.stack.imgur.com/0YC1e.png higher precision plot (parts of the curve moved by like two pixels)
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15:28:11 <esolangs> [[PRINT]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106569&oldid=106490 * SpaceByte * (+348) 
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16:15:39 <esolangs> [[PRINT]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106570&oldid=106569 * SpaceByte * (-1790) 
16:16:14 <esolangs> [[PRINT]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106571&oldid=106570 * SpaceByte * (+1790) Undo revision 106570 by [[Special:Contributions/SpaceByte|SpaceByte]] ([[User talk:SpaceByte|talk]])
16:17:28 <esolangs> [[PRINT]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106572&oldid=106571 * SpaceByte * (+2473) 
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16:24:05 <wib_jonas> we should start to prepare to change the featured language on the wiki. we'll have to change it by 2024-06 which is less than 17 months from now, to keep the tradition that we change the featured language every 5 years and a bit more
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18:52:22 <esolangs> [[User:KapitanGamer]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106573&oldid=106418 * KapitanGamer * (-9) 
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19:00:05 <esolangs> [[User:KapitanGamer]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106574&oldid=106573 * KapitanGamer * (-1) 
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19:05:07 <esolangs> [[User:KapitanGamer]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106575&oldid=106574 * KapitanGamer * (+60) /* In development */
19:05:23 <esolangs> [[User:KapitanGamer]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106576&oldid=106575 * KapitanGamer * (+3) /* In development */
19:06:41 <esolangs> [[User:KapitanGamer]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106577&oldid=106576 * KapitanGamer * (+69) 
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20:58:37 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106578&oldid=106517 * DevBadger * (+211) Hopefully it lets me commit this time.
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21:10:03 <esolangs> [[CatCode]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106579 * DevBadger * (+252) Created page with "== CatCode ==  '''CatCode''' is a programming language made by DevBadger10 from 2022 - 2023, as its development started near New Years. More info is available at [https://github.com/DevBadger10/catcode/wiki its GitHub Wiki link]. [[Category:Languages]]"
21:17:29 <esolangs> [[CatCode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106580&oldid=106579 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+27) Stub, category
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