< 1675473574 185534 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-167.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`learn password The password of the month is Bear this torch against the cold of the night. < 1675473577 486326 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Relearned 'password': password The password of the month is Bear this torch against the cold of the night. > 1675474602 152048 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07TimeWaste14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106643&oldid=106642 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+33) 10Stub, category < 1675477234 505785 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1675477260 89369 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1675478017 97261 :razetime!~Thunderbi@117.193.5.54 JOIN #esolangs razetime :razetime < 1675483051 84286 :razetime!~Thunderbi@117.193.5.54 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1675483692 689636 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in < 1675483813 451945 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron < 1675484684 301841 :razetime!~Thunderbi@117.193.5.54 JOIN #esolangs razetime :razetime < 1675487233 483221 :craigo!~craigo@180-150-37-12.b49625.bne.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN #esolangs craigo :realname < 1675488105 409152 :slavfox!~slavfox@93.158.232.111 QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in < 1675488289 127550 :slavfox!~slavfox@93.158.232.111 JOIN #esolangs slavfox :slavfox < 1675497666 387520 :razetime!~Thunderbi@117.193.5.54 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1675497691 52595 :razetime!~Thunderbi@117.193.5.54 JOIN #esolangs razetime :razetime < 1675497951 945138 :razetime!~Thunderbi@117.193.5.54 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1675498840 780448 :razetime!~Thunderbi@117.193.5.54 JOIN #esolangs razetime :razetime < 1675500482 562463 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm is running `kissat` also a kitten game? < 1675500697 924277 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I never got past year 71) < 1675504337 200520 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal JOIN #esolangs Vorpal :Vorpal < 1675504408 161178 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :It has probably been a decade or so since I was active here. I however recently did a thing relevant to esolangs, thought I should mention it here in case anyone is interested: https://github.com/VorpalBlade/brainoxide < 1675504424 799924 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :optimising brainfuck compiler, really though it was just an excuse to learn rust < 1675504451 580869 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :Compiles to C or interprets directly. Seems to work on all the programs I tested it on. < 1675504537 902491 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :I most likely won't do anything else with it (except maybe a bug fix if anyone finds anything), but move on to some completely different, and non-esolang related. < 1675504592 438267 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :Though I am curious as to what the state-of-the-art compiler for Brainfuck is these days. I know for sure that I could do a lot better than what I did above, by building more of a proper flow graph, doing loop induction etc < 1675504635 844947 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe converting the (balanced) code blocks to SSA form. Etc < 1675505532 313997 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :There are too many implementations. A survey would be nice, but would also be a lot of work. < 1675505593 776661 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :Agreed, by the way has anything interesting happened in Befunge in recent years? < 1675505594 752427 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I mean just look at https://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_implementations ...and I'd bet that there's quite a few more. Heck I don't even know whether https://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck#Notable_implementations is a subset of that list. < 1675505603 216672 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :Been a long while since I wrote cfunge < 1675505621 953010 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot: maybe you can answer that? < 1675505622 702565 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: you're really confused about mathematics and exactness vs. domains??? fnord fnord juttuja jotka uskoo fnord! :p) < 1675505631 925289 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh! Is fungot still running on cfunge? < 1675505632 237053 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :Vorpal: definitely need parens around arguments is an inconsistency to me, < 1675505636 512041 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(just kidding, but to my mind fungot is peak befunge) < 1675505637 75093 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: lagging like shit) and no white skies. have you gotten to the part where he's searching online for information while on the command line < 1675505655 158471 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Vorpal: pretty sure it does < 1675505665 312008 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :or is, to match the question < 1675505683 512733 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :Cool. Someone should write a rustfunge or something. Too much work for me personally. < 1675505716 753897 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah, Befunge is a bit enterprisey... so many extensions. < 1675505751 581237 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :hehe < 1675505762 485107 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :also good luck writing something like fungot in bf < 1675505762 634373 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :Vorpal: shutting up.) < 1675505790 592063 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm probably going to go write a low level (and possibly async) daemon next. I want to control the keyboard backlight on my laptop to have a timeout when I'm not typing on it. I have a older laptop with that feature in firmware, and it is neat. < 1675505792 432512 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :we have a guy with a (subset of) C to bf compiler < 1675505801 155778 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh that is cool < 1675505859 421336 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :hm, is there any esolang with *proper* (non-synchronous) threads? I made an extension in efunge that added that (though the shared funge-space was still atomicly accessed) < 1675505877 176054 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :every esolang with threads I can think of have them running in lock step < 1675505920 83998 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :What was the name... grep says kspalaiologos. I don't know when they were last around. < 1675505955 274645 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: so I could use brainoxide to compile a bf program to C, then compile that back to brainfuck. < 1675505974 908829 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :or the other way around < 1675505981 102855 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that... sounds marvellous. not. < 1675506033 573622 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Anyway, this channel has slowed down a lot. < 1675506042 321159 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :still, I would be interested in an esolang with proper threads. That sounds like an interesting challenge to implement < 1675506064 311612 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :People get older, less time. Young people don't use irc any more. < 1675506066 682527 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :uh-oh... there's threaded intercal < 1675506077 440513 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: I thought it ran the threads in lock step too? < 1675506086 702721 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :also I do *not* want to try to implement intercal. No way. < 1675506105 253210 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I thought it was specified with actual parallelism < 1675506120 887259 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh? Maybe it is just C-INTERCAL that run them in lock step then? < 1675506132 642398 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I do not know what the c-intercal implementation does. < 1675506210 43522 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I just don't know what other multithreaded languages we have :) < 1675506287 168714 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :as I said, I did add an experimental extension to efunge (erlang funge) that added free running threads. It was a separate branch iirc. Because I think the performance was quite bad (even on non-threaded stuff). Since every funge-space access needed to be done in thread safe ways < 1675506349 417441 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :I seem to have lot most of the docs for it... < 1675506351 28707 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://github.com/VorpalBlade/efunge/blob/feature/supervisor-tree/src/fingerprints/ATHR.spec < 1675506371 212248 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :It abstracted locks as borrowing books from a library iirc < 1675506417 842275 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, at least nobody will starve < 1675506444 655359 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :uh? < 1675506446 752415 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm scared to ask what the memory model for this is < 1675506461 22681 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Vorpal: starvation only happens if you pick up forks < 1675506468 220258 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :;) < 1675506470 97085 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah, lol < 1675506481 82919 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :so... (this has been over a decade... details fuzzy) < 1675506510 743774 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(or rather, fail to pick up forks) < 1675506511 566767 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :memory model was that reads/writes to funge space were atomic and sequential order. I think < 1675506535 133653 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :but, read+write would not be atomic unless every thread used the features from the fingerprint for accessing that address < 1675506583 154113 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :good old sequential memory < 1675506619 738260 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :this was basically implemented by having an ETS shared table between the erlang threads. Then all the "atomic" operations were done by RPC calls to a server thread. < 1675506628 104057 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://github.com/VorpalBlade/efunge/blob/feature/supervisor-tree/src/efunge_fungespace.erl seems to have the logic for that < 1675506687 843778 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :the server implementation would be at handle_call() in that file < 1675506722 702761 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :erlang uses message passing as it's primary form of communication between threads. So everything had to be mapped on top of that < 1675506748 404638 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :except, well stuff like ETS tables, which is specifically a shared in-memory key-value database < 1675506800 882753 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I barely know enough to read that < 1675506820 633110 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: it reads like prolog. All pattern matching and multiple-dispatch < 1675506843 793140 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh that's totally fine... it's similar to pattern matching in Haskell. < 1675506861 354530 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I realize that the semantics are a bit different. < 1675506867 16445 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm going to say that pattern matching in erlang is way more powerful than haskell < 1675506880 175143 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :it does not use prolog semantics (it doesn't use unification) < 1675506947 432698 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think the code itself is not too bad, but knowing the standard library abstractions and patterns is probably the sticking point I would guess < 1675506954 669122 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :like "what the heck is a gen_server" < 1675506995 334976 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :(basically it is a pattern making it easy to implement a server-like thing in erlang with RPC over message passing, all the boring boilerplate bits are handled over in the standard library) < 1675507104 66262 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :When you can't use that) (e.g. for the main threads running funge code), you end up having to do a lot of extra yourself: https://github.com/VorpalBlade/efunge/blob/feature/supervisor-tree/src/efunge_thread.erl < 1675507118 429037 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :(see loop/5) < 1675507150 904537 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Eh, https://www.erlang.org/doc/man/gen_server.html#Module:handle_call-3 is readable. < 1675507173 101080 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah I can read it < 1675507184 772256 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :even though it has been a decade or so since i wrote erlang code < 1675507209 362857 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've never written erlang code? Maybe a hello world at some point. < 1675507274 661436 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :right. I found that jumping between programming languages is actually not difficult, once you know a couple. < 1675507275 442210 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :But I did encounter CCS and CSP in my CS studies. < 1675507282 2310 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and the pi calculus too. < 1675507293 512454 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :Probably a bit more work between imperative and functional, but eh < 1675507304 33254 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :So the execution model of Erlang is not completely alien. < 1675507329 222536 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm sure I could get into it if needed. < 1675507330 481188 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :remind me, which one was which of CCS and CSP? < 1675507336 701802 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :continuation something passing? < 1675507369 933159 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :calculus of communicating systems and communicating sequential processes < 1675507382 413355 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :CPS is continuation passing style, that's different. < 1675507390 404248 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, I was completely off < 1675507393 102286 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :right < 1675507400 551243 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :"actor model" might be relevant too < 1675507413 792577 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah it is < 1675507430 5369 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :it is just lots of threads sending messages between each other. Way easier than shared memory actually < 1675507444 201138 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :(and sometimes you wait for a reply) < 1675507452 222552 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the actor model is far less formal < 1675507459 290527 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah < 1675507467 375341 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah I never studied CCS or CSP < 1675507472 252092 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :CCS and CSP have actual syntax and semantics < 1675507501 734397 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :And, again, the pi calculus. I keep leaving that out because it's so much to type. < 1675507524 402889 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm self taught on erlang. I have come to realise I'm more of an engineer than a formal mathematician. I'd rather read some clear code than a formal mathematical model any day < 1675507531 243233 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :There's a bunch of others too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calculus_of_communicating_systems#Related_calculi,_models,_and_languages < 1675507622 809070 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hm I wonder if you can make an esolang out of this. E.g you only have message passing < 1675507641 800199 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :Maybe message passing and conditionals, but no actual variables < 1675507647 954905 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :I wonder if that would be TC < 1675507683 922148 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :you could have a "system provided" actor for doing IO < 1675507717 352891 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's kind of what these calculi are < 1675507723 699780 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah < 1675507737 366455 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :are the calculi TC though? < 1675507791 564347 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :This one definitely is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi-calculus#Turing_completeness < 1675507835 514014 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah < 1675507886 748763 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :well then, nothing interesting to invent there < 1675507974 233986 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I realize that I never went into depth with these calculi. I can't tell you whether CCS or CSP are TC. < 1675507983 760711 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :I was thinking to encode the infinite state into unbounded message queues, rather than by having processes being able to replicate themselves. < 1675508066 943547 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Well, communication is synchronous here; there are no queues. < 1675508068 920637 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1675508073 796269 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah < 1675508119 783919 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :But you can simulate queues by spawning a dedicated thread for each message that sends the message and then passes a token to the next message thread. < 1675508121 563262 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :I was thinking async, proper multi-threaded: Then you could just have a infinite "delay line" style memory basically having an echo process that echos things back to you. If you can do pattern matching on your incoming messages you can choose when to read from that process < 1675508175 815064 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :sounds similar to what I suggested? < 1675508183 572368 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :a bit < 1675508282 153449 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :If you have a queue you can do cyclic tag system stuff. (e.g. https://esolangs.org/wiki/Bitwise_Cyclic_Tag) < 1675508339 521983 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, cool. Yeah so what I was thinking of would *likely* be TC then. < 1675508360 842686 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I wouldn't be surprised if (simulated) queues actually feature in TC-ness proofs for the pi-calculus. It sounds like a natural building block. < 1675508371 652175 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Though I guess you can also, alternatively, simulate counters. < 1675508401 33413 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :which might be a bit simpler :) < 1675508466 634260 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :I kind of want to come up with some interesting multi-threaded turing tarpit that uses shared memory now < 1675508485 154071 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't see how it make it interesting without also being TC with just a single thread though < 1675508529 527664 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe only some threads can do some operations? E.g. thread 1 can not do additions, but thread 2 cannot do loops? Or something like that < 1675508585 263244 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :and they can only communicate via some rather simple and annoying atomic operation(s) (e.g. something simpler than CAS) < 1675508652 586693 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :but all the interesting operations that they can do are non-atomic. So you have to come up with a way to ask the other thread to do things via this horrible atomic communication < 1675508701 861427 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: does that sound plausible to you? < 1675508763 674608 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Vorpal: if you have asynchronous communication you can use a message queue to send messages to yourself. < 1675508792 383594 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Which really should be enough for a single thread to work out. < 1675508796 700684 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: you would only have a pre-declared set of atomic variables (finite, not growable at runtime) < 1675508828 374108 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :and they would be like atomic bytes or maybe even atomic bits < 1675508837 612460 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess there's the question on how you do conditionals. < 1675508902 23134 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :So you may be right... in those calculi, a single thread cannot do conditional computations. < 1675508908 386879 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, only thread 1 can do conditionals. But thread 1 can't do arithmetics. So you need to come up with a way to ask thread 2 to do arithmetics for you, even though thread 2 can't do conditionals. < 1675508913 275119 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :not sure if that would work out < 1675508967 155193 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm feeling like this is heading in the direction of malbolge though... A not particularly interesting language that is just difficult to do things in practically < 1675508983 353273 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, encode values as sequences of bits and don't bother thread 2 at all? < 1675509015 227164 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :hm, yeah getting something interesting out of this *would* be rather difficult < 1675509019 452033 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(a target for compilers) < 1675509024 470950 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(malbolge, that is)\ < 1675509041 403363 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :right < 1675509121 443332 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :The amazing thing about Malbolge is that people managed to tame it. The first proper 99 bottles of beers program was amazing. After that was achieved... it's just more of the same. < 1675509124 206560 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :what if all you have is conditionals and set-if-written-by other thread? < 1675509134 420627 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :E.g. you can't write to a value again until the other thread has done so < 1675509171 552859 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :that basically forces you to use two threads < 1675509178 742597 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :not sure what you mean by "write to value"... my current mental model only has a finite set of atoms and unbounded queues. < 1675509189 925077 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: this is a shared memory tarpit < 1675509193 284332 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :not message passing < 1675509194 720155 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :at all < 1675509199 262489 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :[12:01] I kind of want to come up with some interesting multi-threaded turing tarpit that uses shared memory now < 1675509208 512445 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh I missed the change in context then < 1675509213 41960 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah < 1675509258 13289 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(that only happens to me all the time) < 1675509266 462686 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: now, re-evaluating it in that context. How would one make a horrible but shared shared-memory turing tarpit < 1675509276 29976 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :horrible but interesting* < 1675509326 34207 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :. o O ( add time travel where a value can be read before it's written ) < 1675509326 135621 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm thinking compare-and-set-if-written-by-other-thread where it just won't do anything unless the other thread was the last writer < 1675509336 406819 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :forcing you to ping-pong between threads < 1675509373 193536 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :right but the danger is that one thread will just be an unglorified echo server < 1675509373 902991 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: that sounds difficult to implement. There was that whole time travel extension to funge (that I never implemented) that would roll back and re-execute state. CBBI had support iirc < 1675509383 464309 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :hm true < 1675509432 394546 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's pretty hard to make a language interesting by design < 1675509456 712676 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the usual way seems to make a minimal language of sorts and even that isn't foolproof. < 1675509496 705461 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :by the way, how the heck does my crate (rust term for package) for the BF compiler already have 17 downloads? I published it yesterday. https://crates.io/crates/brainoxide Maybe some are like automated virus scanners or something? And the automatic documentation generation is probably one of those. But 17? < 1675509527 284784 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :(it's at the bottom of the page) < 1675509536 72057 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :crawlers < 1675509552 687309 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :that download the *package* too? Not just view the page. < 1675509583 352878 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :There's also "New Crates" on https://crates.io/ so somebody may have seen it there. < 1675509589 895992 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :true < 1675509598 875603 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :but who would care about a bf compiler? < 1675509607 446514 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :as you said, there are way too many of them < 1675509607 862578 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :somebody who's bored < 1675509634 974003 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :I didn't even include any example programs (because I didn't write them, so no clue about licenses in general) < 1675509655 433518 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :The "Downloads over the last 90 days" graph is silly. < 1675509671 122790 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :you mean the smoothing thing it does? Yes it is rather silly < 1675509687 182566 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :also the fact that it starts at 0 < 1675509712 42797 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :I mean, it makes sense for older popular crates: https://crates.io/crates/syn < 1675509724 132489 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it would probably be interesting to see timestamps for the downloads < 1675509727 22497 :razetime!~Thunderbi@117.193.5.54 QUIT :Quit: See You Space Cowboy < 1675509759 982493 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the first 10 downloads were all within a minute of the crate being published. < 1675509760 791078 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :it is interesting that you can see dips during weekends for popular crates < 1675509791 10521 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :and a big christmas dip < 1675509793 742428 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :The #brainfuck tag is quite popular too :P < 1675509812 293399 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(35 results!) < 1675509816 52720 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes I noticed there were a lot < 1675509843 643634 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :brainoxide was not my first name choice lets say < 1675509851 37185 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :I wonder if there is a macro one that runs bf during compile time < 1675509857 217904 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :you could absolutely do that in rust < 1675509901 453140 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :let mystring = bf!(+++[>++++<-] other code to do bf here ); < 1675509901 682195 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"An optimizing brainfuck interpreter with helpful errors." < 1675509915 304352 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :um, like "unbalanced loops?" < 1675509918 932076 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :"?* < 1675509931 112431 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah, exactly. Kind of weird for a language where the only error you can make is mismatched brackets. < 1675509953 192381 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :like I tell the user if there are too many [ or ] (I don't tell them where that is in the code though. so not helpful I guess) < 1675509953 968868 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :But I haven't looked closely. < 1675509964 925793 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :and "tape pointer went negative" < 1675509967 219013 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :I do that too < 1675509968 292066 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's this one: https://crates.io/crates/brainfrick < 1675510042 49538 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :none of the #brainfuck tagged ones mention macro in their title at least < 1675510051 723037 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :so there might be an unexploited niche < 1675510054 132922 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Anyway, none of these synopsises sound like they provide a macro for compile time use. < 1675510062 882386 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :exactly < 1675510071 316995 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :not that I'm particularly keen on learning proc macros next < 1675510093 934626 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :and I doubt you can do it in macro_rules declarative macros due to recursion limits < 1675510164 80816 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://sdleffler.github.io/RustTypeSystemTuringComplete/ (though that is TC in type system, not in macros themselves) < 1675510184 852163 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://github.com/Purpzie/brainfrick/blob/main/src/error.rs#L10-L16 ...yeah missing brackets (with offset, presumably either the offset of an extra ] or the end of the input) and IO errors. > 1675510225 245228 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07List of ideas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106644&oldid=106605 5* 03Orisphera 5* (+211) 10/* Ideas related to esoteric operating systems, esoteric processors and esoteric computers */ < 1675510369 358351 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: so (except for telling you the offset) stuff my implementation has too < 1675510395 187094 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :and IO errors are indeed reported (except for EOF on input, which has defined semantics in bf) < 1675510767 300621 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Vorpal: Just to confirm, yes, it's still running on cfunge. < 1675510792 593583 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: oh hi! Was just about to leave and take a nice walk in the sun. Before that though. How have you been this past decade or so? < 1675510831 811529 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :still doing panorams and working at google (in UK?) < 1675510833 610968 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :? < 1675510931 480362 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't think I've done many panoramas lately, actually. But still with Google UK, yeah (given recent layoff news, let's see how long). Haven't done really anything esolang-related in ages, beyond keeping the infra (wiki, HackEso, etc.) running. < 1675510981 562625 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah < 1675510994 36829 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :I hear it is a mess in UK these days though? < 1675510994 919897 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh, I guess I've been doing Advent of Code in Burlesque, that's something. < 1675511043 424372 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh cool < 1675511072 215323 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :looks very golfy < 1675511121 43635 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah, though not quite as golfy as something like GolfScript. It was made by a former #esoteric regular. < 1675511156 546801 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :anyway, I'm going out into the sun. Have a nice day. < 1675511170 661384 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Cheers, as the say here. < 1675511184 368150 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :s/the/they/ < 1675511450 459566 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot: Have you ever thought about starting to post on the fediverse? < 1675511450 828640 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: but the heuristics required to make that assessment?) scheme code markup < 1675511474 192854 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :(It has a defunct Twitter account, which I every now and then think about reviving, but with Elon's latest API news that's not going to be an option.) > 1675512196 938033 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Grocery List14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106645&oldid=16619 5* 03Orisphera 5* (+359) 10/* Popping the result (a) */ new section < 1675512940 149503 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: I have not followed the twitter debacle in recent weeks. What is this API news? < 1675513062 749750 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :huh I seem to be having some internet slowness. < 1675513066 665017 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1675513136 446418 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :packet loss < 1675513238 215208 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :"Starting February 9, we will no longer support free access to the Twitter API, both v2 and v1.1. A paid basic tier will be available instead" < 1675513298 530587 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse < 1675513320 374944 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :So unless fungot becomes profitable somehow (that'd be the day), it's not going to be tweeting. < 1675513320 477413 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: i want to < 1675513336 878728 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot: Look, make your own money, then you can use it any way you like. < 1675513337 614420 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: you use erc, there's also `s' ( for example, can lead to corner-to-corner or completeness, and corner-to-corner can lead only to completeness.... some other direction < 1675513401 324845 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-230-207.bredband.tele2.se QUIT :Excess Flood < 1675513479 719783 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-230-207.bredband.tele2.se JOIN #esolangs olsner :Got ZNC? < 1675514870 984122 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-230-207.bredband.tele2.se QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1675516002 496120 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :how am I still connected to irc? I have 60% packet loss, and varying response times of 0.1 - 20 *seconds*. < 1675516074 75427 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: hm does fungot not reply to CTCP PING? < 1675516074 215842 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :Vorpal: burn in hell < 1675516083 859394 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot: whoa! calm down there < 1675516084 130520 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :Vorpal: i got version 360, i'm not sure what would be the < 1675516368 768698 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah, I don't think it has any CTCP replies. < 1675516461 718273 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: what model is it using atm? < 1675516465 432379 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :I forgot how to check < 1675516484 196405 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :^style < 1675516484 906657 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp ukparl youtube < 1675516496 18620 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah < 1675516537 753267 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :also something weird is going on with my speakers. Seem to be glitchy, Only when I put pressure on the connector do I get sound on the left side. < 1675516553 421325 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess it is time to dig out the soldering iron. Probably a cracked solder joint < 1675516746 998708 :razetime!~Thunderbi@117.193.5.54 JOIN #esolangs razetime :razetime < 1675516971 700044 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-230-207.bredband.tele2.se JOIN #esolangs olsner :Got ZNC? < 1675518569 664276 :razetime!~Thunderbi@117.193.5.54 QUIT :Quit: See You Space Cowboy > 1675518651 757714 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainfuck implementations14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106646&oldid=104205 5* 03B jonas 5* (+74) 10+optimizing compiler by Vorpal < 1675519438 936714 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-167.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :" we have a guy with a (subset of) C to bf compiler" => don't we have like two or three? one of whom programmed machines in a casino with it and only gave the bf code or some silly story like that? < 1675519529 812766 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-167.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"It abstracted locks as borrowing books from a library iirc" => is that like the perl maintainer pumpkin? < 1675519573 404396 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-167.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"starvation only happens if you pick up forks" => there are other ways to starve, but sure < 1675519596 344839 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-167.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :library books work because the library has a fixed time limit after which you have to return the books even if you haven't been able to used them < 1675519899 783951 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :[15:05] "It abstracted locks as borrowing books from a library iirc" => is that like the perl maintainer pumpkin? <--- don't know perl, no idea < 1675519938 483892 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :huh, I could not see any cracks, but resoldered anyway. Seems to have fixed the issue < 1675519993 715952 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I don't remember how the books/library was supposed to work, but that part of the code was never implemented. And I can't find the spec < 1675520134 488098 :bgs!~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net JOIN #esolangs bgs :bgs > 1675520426 773339 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Vorpal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106647&oldid=22878 5* 03Vorpal 5* (+146) 10Update my user page. It was super outdated. < 1675520860 53471 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-167.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Vorpal: I want to specify a small part of an optional multithreading extension for Consumer society. I don't want to specify or implement creating threads or specify what kind of threads they are, so this isn't really an answer. What I do want is specify an optional feature that lets you easily implement functions like the ones in the arithmetic library (you know, adding or multiplying or comparing < 1675520866 62771 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-167.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :integers) as threadsafe, because the most obvious implementation isn't threadsafe. This counts as an optional extension because the core language is tiny, but it's a really small one, trivial to implement in a single-threaded implementation, and almost certainly very easy to implement in any multithreading implementation, but it needs support from the multithreading extension, you can't just implement < 1675520872 72107 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-167.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it portably without knowing how the threading works, which is why I want to specify it. < 1675520908 452836 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-167.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Technically you can also implement thread-safe arithmetic functions without this extension, but it would be more complicated and likely have worse performance.) < 1675521080 389416 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :not familiar with this language < 1675521130 632153 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I can't find "Consumer society" on esolangs. Any link to it? < 1675521277 64650 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-167.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"calculus of communicating systems and communicating sequential processes' => isn't CSP constraint satisfaction problem? < 1675521320 757151 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hm, what about an esolang where things are found at addresses? As in "load variable from Main Street 142 using a pickup truck". And you have to care about distance to the CPU address, and avoid traffic congestion? Multi threading could be multiple CPU building at different addresses that load and store things independently < 1675521329 963178 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: TLAs are overloaded < 1675521419 785347 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh and atomic operations could be done by things like "send package to Side Street 12, if already full, leave package with neighbour to the left" < 1675521433 958091 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :this avoids overwriting existing memory < 1675521472 222597 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :I imagine the syntax would be this sort of very high level English looking thing. Probably with optional words allowed to make it sound more natural < 1675521509 877144 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-167.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :" I kind of want to come up with some interesting multi-threaded turing tarpit that uses shared memory now" => yeah, maybe Consumer society will help in that, as in you can invent a suitable threading model over it < 1675521513 786575 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :You would basically need a map to be able to program this < 1675521529 842192 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: again as I said, I could not find that. Could you provide a link to it? < 1675521540 450694 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :or are you just reading scrollback and ignoring new messages? < 1675521575 710435 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :anyway I will be leaving shortly, so it would perhaps be better for you to jump ahead and answer recent questions first instead < 1675521761 219774 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :1630811154 544040 :b_jonas!~x@catv-176-63-11-154.catv.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Consumer Society doesn't have a wiki page because I haven't published its definition yet and I didn't want to create a completely useless stub < 1675521774 206766 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh I didn't see that < 1675521790 554697 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :eh that's a message from 2021-09-05 < 1675521791 393345 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :;) < 1675521800 607763 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: oh well, duh < 1675521802 584282 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :But I suspect it's still up-to-date < 1675521850 123123 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :Anyway. I like the idea of an esolang based on driving instructions for package delivery/pickup. Where you have to factor in the time it takes to move between addresses. And traffic congestion matters. < 1675521865 273798 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe ditch the CPU buildings, and do all computations in the driving instructions < 1675521929 275078 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: another idea for concurrency in esolangs: Look at VHDL/Verilog. Where everything is concurrent, and sequential is kind of hard < 1675521937 999965 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe someone could steal that for an esolang < 1675521961 955737 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :it is all about electrical signals and states < 1675522068 748959 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :for the package delivery esolang I imagine the implementation will basically run a simulation at some granularity t (e.g. 10 seconds at a time). So it will be abstracted over. Not an actual traffic simulation. < 1675522101 753231 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :Now I wonder if you can do computation in actual multi-agent traffic simulations based on the interaction between "things" (car, people, etc) in the simulation. < 1675522127 581668 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :I mean, fizzie did and/or gates etc in OpenTTD iirc. So why not < 1675522134 567783 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-167.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm not even sure what actual threading model a multi-threading Consumer society should have. Maybe there's more than one good one, maybe there's none. I just wanted to know that if I specify the arithmetic library I don't write myself into a corner where you have to throw the whole thing out for multithreading. < 1675522170 373223 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: it would be very helpful to know what the heck Consumer society actually *was* to be able to follow this < 1675522178 523045 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal PRIVMSG #esolangs :anyway, leaving now. See you. < 1675522184 556737 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@user/Vorpal QUIT :Quit: Konversation terminated! < 1675522317 369342 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-167.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :" Though I guess you can also, alternatively, simulate counters." => would that involve n threads when the value of the counter is n? < 1675523121 152238 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-167.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"Kind of weird for a language where the only error you can make is mismatched brackets." => isn't running off the left of the tape <+ an error, though supported as an extension in some impls? < 1675523158 213926 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-167.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :an right, Vorpal says that a few lines later < 1675523561 987142 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-167.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: re fungot and twitter, if fungot was already a member of the EU or UK parliament then you could just rely on other people tweeting what interesting things he said in the parliament. but if he's not already a member then he won't be able to campaign without twitter, so that's hard to solve. < 1675523562 445439 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: oh. hm. so there should be a breeze then. g x returns 3 fnord i have: fnord/ archives/ fnord < 1675523630 703212 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-167.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"how am I still connected to irc? I have 60% packet loss, and varying responsehow am I still connected to irc? I have 60% packet loss, and varying response times" => by the magic of TCP/IP. < 1675523712 250525 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-167.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Vorpal: "don't know perl, no idea" => the pumpkin is described in https://perldoc.perl.org/perlhist#PUMPKIN? < 1675523812 668417 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-167.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :` b_jonas: I can't find "Consumer society" on esolangs. Any link to it?' => there is none, because I haven't released it yet. it's one I've been planning to make for a few years, and the core language is now stabilized but I'm trying to keep it a secret, and my constant fear that someone else discovers the core lanugage before me hasn't yet overcome my lazyness in making it a full language (with < 1675523814 662776 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​? No such file or directory < 1675523818 682368 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-167.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :documentation, library, implementation, example programs, etc) and publishing it < 1675523944 91530 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-167.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :" You would basically need a map to be able to program this" => Mornington Crescent… < 1675523958 909668 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-167.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :" or are you just reading scrollback and ignoring new messages?" => yes, I'm still reading scrollback < 1675524099 273706 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-167.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :no longer, I caught upp < 1675524550 917873 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-167.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :what's the earliest computer program we know of that was first published in Europe and when was it published? I wonder when there will first be programs whose copyright protection has expired. we're in 2023 so we must be getting near < 1675524739 825748 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-167.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :though of course it's tricky because the term is 70 years plus authors' death, and most programs from back then that we still know of will have multiple authors < 1675524767 640450 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-28-167.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but still, there will probably soon exist something somewhere > 1675525432 265820 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Piechicken2014]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106648&oldid=106638 5* 03Piechicken20 5* (+0) 10 > 1675525743 363024 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07X714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106649&oldid=106639 5* 03LyricLy 5* (+238) 10Structure instructions into sections > 1675526195 495487 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07TimeWaste14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106650&oldid=106643 5* 03Nathi1235 5* (+797) 10 > 1675526599 466359 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Yes14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106651&oldid=106435 5* 03Yes 5* (-50) 10/* Wikipedia */ > 1675526644 834440 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Piechicken2014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106652&oldid=106648 5* 03Piechicken20 5* (+230) 10 < 1675527536 858752 :razetime!~Thunderbi@117.193.5.54 JOIN #esolangs razetime :razetime > 1675527598 662759 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07TimeWaste14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106653&oldid=106650 5* 03Nathi1235 5* (+0) 10 > 1675527623 392093 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07TimeWaste14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106654&oldid=106653 5* 03Nathi1235 5* (-1) 10 > 1675527986 5918 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Nathi123514]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=106655 5* 03Nathi1235 5* (+138) 10Created page with "Hi, my name is '''Nathanael''', I'm a Electronics- and Software-Engineering student at HTL in Austria. I am the creator of [[TimeWaste]]." > 1675528012 702982 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Nathi123514]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106656&oldid=106655 5* 03Nathi1235 5* (+2) 10 > 1675528874 431312 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07X714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106657&oldid=106649 5* 03LyricLy 5* (+39) 10Add note about ! not rewinding < 1675530322 354090 :craigo!~craigo@180-150-37-12.b49625.bne.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1675530376 446957 :craigo!~craigo@180-150-37-12.b49625.bne.nbn.aussiebb.net JOIN #esolangs craigo :realname < 1675532416 144259 :razetime!~Thunderbi@117.193.5.54 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1675533872 512595 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1675533983 528156 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse < 1675534156 705187 :simcop2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3+b4 - https://znc.in < 1675534156 705273 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3+b4 - https://znc.in > 1675537338 699153 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07X714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=106658&oldid=106657 5* 03LyricLy 5* (+127) 10 < 1675539828 264359 :immibis_!~immibis@2a02:3032:11:579b:6540:c19d:bcdd:52f0 JOIN #esolangs immibis :realname < 1675546886 703915 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname < 1675548038 293765 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn JOIN #esolangs toonn :Unknown < 1675549152 907481 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1675551474 91166 :chiselfu1e!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse < 1675551557 514827 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1675551819 872614 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1675551824 521469 :chiselfu1e!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1675551859 531169 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse < 1675551864 321165 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu JOIN #esolangs int-e :Bertram < 1675552048 109289 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot JOIN #esolangs lambdabot :Lambda_Robots:_100%_Loyal < 1675552470 201872 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :@bot < 1675552470 245862 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esolangs ::) < 1675553770 892218 :simcop2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 JOIN #esolangs simcop2387 :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1675553861 673273 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot JOIN #esolangs perlbot :ZNC - https://znc.in