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00:23:39 <b_jonas> FireFly: you think so? how do you spell the options that make tar not chown and not chmod when extracting files as root?
00:26:07 <FireFly> I'd check the manpage for that, it doesn't usually come up :p
00:28:16 <b_jonas> funnily I didn't use to have a problem with the compression options. -z for gzip, -j for bzip2, those were all the formats I encountered
00:31:08 <b_jonas> also I almost always type xvf instead of just xf
00:49:39 <zzo38> I usually just use separate program for compression if that is what I want when using tar, such as gzip/zcat
00:50:46 <JAA> --auto-compress <3
00:55:58 <JAA> Although I actually usually use unar(1) for extracting. Even easier and has been able to handle pretty much any 'archive' file format I've thrown at it so far.
00:58:08 <zzo38> What file formats can it read? There are some files that are rarely implemented.
01:00:17 <zzo38> There are some TRON files which seem to be archive files but I do not know what they are and cannot find much information or other stuff. (I could decode some TRON files which are not archive files, such as ones with diagrams, and could decode the outer framing even of the files that I did not otherwise know, but not always the application data)
01:04:53 <b_jonas> zzo38: sure, my backup script does (tar -c --null --no-recursion -T | 7z a $filename.t7z -t7z -mx=3 -si$filename.tar) but that's in a config file, I don't try to remembe it
01:06:50 <zzo38> For backups I use several other switches as well, including --numeric-owner and --one-file-system
01:08:40 <JAA> zzo38: They're listed half-way down the page here: https://theunarchiver.com/
01:09:27 <JAA> (No, it's not a macOS-exclusive thing, even though the website looks like it at first glance.)
01:14:09 <zzo38> There are some self-extracting EXE files that 7-Zip could list but not extract. There are some files that I could not find listed here nor with other programs in my computer, or elsewhere.
01:14:59 <zzo38> Although there are many file formats listed there, they are not nearly all of them.
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03:38:51 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Bbrk24 * New user account
03:40:45 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107026&oldid=107013 * Bbrk24 * (+209)
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03:55:18 <JAA> There are always more obscure formats that aren't covered, yeah, but it covers pretty much anything that's reasonably common.
04:03:54 <esolangs> [[Trilangle]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=107027 * Bbrk24 * (+2268) Create page with initial information
04:07:22 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107028&oldid=106931 * Bbrk24 * (+16) /* T */ Add Trilangle
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04:36:55 <esolangs> [[Trilangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107029&oldid=107027 * Bbrk24 * (+1774) /* Instruction set */ Added brief overview of instructions
04:38:08 <esolangs> [[Trilangle]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107030&oldid=107029 * Bbrk24 * (+0) /* Instruction set */ Wrote the wrong value for 0/3
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05:27:44 <zzo38> There are also such things in some formats such as unusual metadata, unusual encodings, etc. Furthermore, some files can be parsed as multiple formats, or cannot be auto-detected, so being able to specify explicitly which format you want, should be a good idea.
05:30:25 <zzo38> Can some of these many formats program to read Famicom Disk System files?
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05:31:51 <zzo38> Also there is consideration of different features of file systems and operating systems. For example, on Windows, file names are Unicode and some characters are not allowed (e.g. question marks) and are case-insensitive, but UNIX can have any sequence of bytes other than null and slash, and are case-sensitive. TRON will use TRON character code. Macintosh can have resource fork and data fork.
05:32:22 <zzo38> And then, permissions work differently on different systems, too.
05:33:21 <zzo38> One format that I had once asked someone making another library to consider is the Hamster archive format, but they did not add it.
06:07:24 <shachaf> So say I want to do k/n secret sharing. I have some secret which is an element of a finite field.
06:08:16 <shachaf> Does the following work? Fix any n×k matrix such that any set of k rows is linearly independent.
06:08:39 <shachaf> To split a secret up, pick k-1 random field elements uniformly. Then apply your matrix to the vector (s,r1,r2,...)
06:09:12 <shachaf> To recover a secret, invert the matrix consisting of the rows for the shards you have.
06:09:29 <shachaf> The answer is no, because "any n×k matrix" is too broad -- for example you don't want the row [1 0 0 ...]
06:09:56 <shachaf> Is "any n×k matrix with no nonzero elements" sufficient?
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07:32:04 <shachaf> It's not necessary, because, for instance, [[0 1 0] [0 0 1] [a b c] [d e f] [g h i]] can be a valid 3/5 secret-sharing scheme, right?
08:13:12 <esolangs> [[MoonScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107031&oldid=106972 * ThisIsTheFoxe * (+416) Add Turing completeness paragraph written by @ChatGPT
08:13:24 <esolangs> [[MoonScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107032&oldid=107031 * ThisIsTheFoxe * (+1)
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09:59:13 <b_jonas> shachaf: that sounds like you're trying to generalize the method that uses polynomials
09:59:45 <shachaf> Right, the Shamir polynomial method uses a Vandermonde matrix, e.g. [[1 1 1] [1 2 4] [1 3 9] ...]
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11:01:33 <b_jonas> it's funny how 5-bit hollerith code didn't originally have a defined bit endianness among the 5 bits of its characters: it was represented as either 5 holes on a tape or 5 bits on a serial line, neither of which per se decide which bit is the least significant, and digits or letters of the alphabet aren't represented in anything resembling the contiguous arrangements of ascii or ebcdic, so you can't
11:01:39 <b_jonas> tell from those encodings either which bit is least significant. it does kind of have a canonical endianness *now*, because the same serial lines were later used to transfer ascii-related encodings with least significant bit first.
11:04:01 <b_jonas> I guess Morse is like that too, though I personally consider Morse code as most significant bit first so the table is ETIANMSURWDKGOHVF.L.PJBXCYZQ.. modulo typos
11:20:40 <b_jonas> I guess https://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/programs/tpk.i also acknowledges or defines a bit endianness for hollerith
11:23:30 <b_jonas> s/hollerith/baudot/ argh
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13:23:19 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Thorben3 * New user account
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14:25:42 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * RixTheTyrunt * New user account
14:27:45 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107033&oldid=107026 * RixTheTyrunt * (+163) /* Introductions */
14:41:33 <esolangs> [[Hexcellent]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=107034 * RixTheTyrunt * (+272) Added my esolang B)
14:42:24 <esolangs> [[Hexcellent]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107035&oldid=107034 * RixTheTyrunt * (-3)
14:42:41 <esolangs> [[Hexcellent]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107036&oldid=107035 * RixTheTyrunt * (-28)
14:46:44 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107037&oldid=107028 * RixTheTyrunt * (+17) Hexcellent!
14:49:31 <esolangs> [[Hexcellent]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107038&oldid=107036 * RixTheTyrunt * (+73)
14:50:14 <Taneb> Hello! What's new-ish in the world of esolangs?
14:59:44 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107039&oldid=107033 * RixTheTyrunt * (+2) /* Introductions */
15:07:52 <esolangs> [[User:RixTheTyrunt]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=107040 * RixTheTyrunt * (+201) Created page with "Hey, uuhh... I'm a Tyrunt , I like [[Main Page|Esolangs]] , I programmed [[Hexcellent]] , I have a [https://replit.com/@RixTheTyrunt/ Replit] account , and... I like emojis !"
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15:31:36 <int-e> b_jonas: The important thing about endianness is that octets are transmitted with the lsb first, but multi-byte words re big endian. That's how it has to be. ;)
15:33:40 <int-e> (As you might know, that's the Ethernet reality, despite https://www.rfc-editor.org/ien/ien137.txt warning of exactly that outcome.)
15:35:53 <int-e> (TBF, that article was probably a reaction to Ethernet, which was introduced the same year.)
15:36:37 <int-e> (And been in development for some years before that.)
15:38:48 <int-e> Taneb: I have the feeling that we (this channel) may be out of the loop. There's some addition to the esolangs wiki. Some attempts to strike up chats about them here but the channel is a) extremely slow and b) some people (tm) are bad at joining small talk.
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16:17:49 <Taneb> int-e: I'm definitely very out of the loop. Haven't been looking at the wiki or here for a long time. Decided to open my IRC client up again recently
16:19:10 <int-e> Taneb: I guess what I'm saying is that looking at the wiki (recent changes) may be a better bet than asking here :)
16:19:34 <Taneb> And I guess what I'm saying is "people here please tell me interesting things that you've been working on"
16:19:40 <int-e> I hear there's a Discord guild now.
16:20:23 <int-e> ("guild" - it was a much more honest term than "server")
16:21:41 <int-e> There's a sequel to n-Step Steve that kept us busy over christmas, does that count?
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17:12:05 <b_jonas> ok wait, so first I have to figure out which way the bits of baudot are even transmitted on serial line.
17:14:13 <b_jonas> apparently the bits of the five-bit baudot byte are numbered in at least three different ways
17:15:23 <b_jonas> and yes, there's been a discord guild for esolangs or two for a while
17:15:49 <b_jonas> you can tell because https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Community_portal links to it
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17:21:18 <b_jonas> IIUC baudot on serial port transmits the bits starting from the side of the tape to which the tiny cog hole is closer. the circuit is closed by default and for the stop bit and for where there's a hole on the tape, the circuit is open for the start bit and where there's solid paper on the tape
17:24:05 <b_jonas> but there's something strange here
17:29:34 <b_jonas> ok, so if https://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/programs/tpk.i gives the order of the letters then those bits are transmitted from least significant bit first, which matches how we transmit ASCII IIUC
17:32:32 <b_jonas> but I could have gotten something wrong here, I haven't cross-verified this
17:47:12 <esolangs> [[User:Joaozin003]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107041&oldid=106083 * Joaozin003 * (+1)
17:53:29 <esolangs> [[Addbig]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107042&oldid=105109 * Joaozin003 * (+12) /* Memory Mapping */
17:57:49 <esolangs> [[Addbig]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107043&oldid=107042 * Joaozin003 * (-13) /* The full Addbig instruction */
17:58:17 <esolangs> [[Addbig]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107044&oldid=107043 * Joaozin003 * (-12)
17:58:53 <esolangs> [[Addbig]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107045&oldid=107044 * Joaozin003 * (+6) /* The full Addbig instruction */
18:23:52 <zzo38> I have not been working on many esolangs things recently, but I have done other stuff
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19:41:04 <zzo38> I had invented some alternative encodings for the TRON character set, including TRON-5, TRON-6, TRON-6A, TRON-7, TRON-8, TRON-16BE, TRON-16LE, TRON-32BE, TRON-32LE, EUC-TRON, UNI-TRON. (the last one is inefficient and is only intended to use with programs that insist to use Unicode)
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22:41:11 <esolangs> [[Hexcellent]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107046&oldid=107038 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+58) Stub, categories
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22:45:38 <TheFloatingPixel> Hello! I'm new here. I almost finished my first esolang, and wanted to get started on the wiki page. I'm wondering if i should use the {{infobox proglang}} template on my page, or is it something reserved for just some specific langs? I'm wondering because not many pages use this template.
22:47:21 <int-e> Looks very generic to me... I'm not sure how many people are aware of its existence. I wasn't :)
22:48:46 <TheFloatingPixel> I plan on putting all the info that would be there in the text anyway, but was thinking it would be kind of a summary.
22:49:50 <int-e> Yeah.
22:50:57 <int-e> It's definitely nice to have.
22:55:08 <int-e> It's used on 416 pages, that's quite a lot.
22:57:13 <TheFloatingPixel> That's more than i thought '=D
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