< 1679529603 264399 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :err < 1679529610 599681 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :2^48 bytes, 48 bits addresses < 1679529648 156088 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :mmap has its own problems, though. < 1679529656 220102 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :of course < 1679529669 739611 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :computers don't have free lunches < 1679529674 459804 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :or offer < 1679529693 614467 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think few programs that use mmap to read a file correctly handle the case where the file is concurrently truncated while reading. < 1679529716 367492 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1679529718 366607 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Where you get a SIGBUS.) < 1679529736 740305 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :don't do that then (tm) < 1679529804 911517 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :And won't that also be a problem if you manage positions in userspace? < 1679529845 489357 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :I mean, it's possible to handle in both cases. < 1679529849 966927 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :though I guess with a far nicer channel for the error < 1679529859 600780 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :But one will just return an error from a particular call, and the other will raise a global signal. < 1679529883 543713 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :If Linux had local signal handlers like Windows that could make handling nicer in this case. < 1679530942 270830 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think they're up to 57 bits of address space now. < 1679530984 216881 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, all usable by userspace? < 1679531001 610052 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't know about operating systems, but hardware-wise, on x86-64, by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_5-level_paging < 1679531058 610475 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think one benefit of the current file offset being a part of the OS file API is so that the same API can be used for files and for pipes. < 1679531073 846534 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah. Another 9 bit level on top of those 48 bits would do it indeed. < 1679531123 67935 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Intel-only, maybe? On my relatively modern 3000-series Ryzen, /proc/cpuinfo says "43 bits physical, 48 bits virtual".) < 1679531296 63247 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm, a quick search found nothing more recent than https://www.phoronix.com/news/AMD-5-Level-Paging-KVM < 1679531334 635003 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I imagine demand for that isn't too big yet. < 1679531376 475079 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Here's something I learned about Plan 9 the other day: it has (at least) two uncommon file mode bits, which make it possible at the filesystem permissions level to mark files as "append-only" (ignores offsets in all writes and places the data at the end of the file) and "exclusive use" (may be opened by at most one client at a time). Supposedly convenient for log files. < 1679531651 709877 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Append-only is something that I had thought before too < 1679532581 15152 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1679532593 528951 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse > 1679533560 80307 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03EZcoder3000 5* 10New user account < 1679534402 40447 :genpaku!~gen@107.191.100.185 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1679534411 457608 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[074Head14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=107592 5* 031hals 5* (+1561) 10create this page > 1679534555 257952 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[074Head/AuthorImplementation.c14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=107593 5* 031hals 5* (+6149) 10create C implementation page > 1679534587 287227 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[074Head14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107594&oldid=107592 5* 031hals 5* (+32) 10Add a link to my implementation < 1679534879 549894 :simcop2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 JOIN #esolangs simcop2387 :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679534970 234839 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot JOIN #esolangs perlbot :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679535117 78689 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: hm interesting < 1679535134 612917 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :append-only as a filesystem permission... makes a lot of sense really < 1679536315 742399 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-29-3.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: I think linux's ext driver has that too < 1679536330 179842 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-29-3.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the append-only bit that is < 1679536471 714485 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-29-3.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :see https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man1/chattr.1.html , the attribute a is append-only, supported by the ext4 driver < 1679536558 62009 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-29-3.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't think there's an "exclusive use" thing as such, but there's kind of a bit for mandatory locks where you can lock the file for exclusive use, see https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/fcntl.2.html under "Mandatory locking", it just doesn't work very well < 1679536586 362823 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-29-3.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :honestly that sounds much less useful than append-only < 1679536606 587366 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-29-3.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :append-only you can imagine like when you send log files to a line printer so they can't be modified easily later < 1679536627 753888 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-29-3.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :of course an alternative is sending the log lines to another computer that stores them < 1679536642 604179 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Linux also has leasing, although that does not prevent accessing the file for very long. You can lease a file that you are writing to so that if anyone reads it, you can ensure that the file is written before anyone else reads it < 1679536749 842250 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-29-3.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :right, it's just that there's usually no point for that or mandatory locking, because locking doesn't work well when only one party uses locks, the other party could already have started to access the file before you lock it < 1679536773 176007 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-29-3.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :these are implemented because they are something the kernel can do, but they aren't practically useful < 1679536913 120606 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yes, although if the operating system is designed differently then there are ways to be done using transactions, etc. (I had ideas relating to operating system design, and one of them is transactions for I/O capabilities including multiples at once) < 1679536943 180372 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Since, one at a time may be insufficient) > 1679537077 388322 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Codon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107595&oldid=107586 5* 03Dtp09 5* (+210) 10 < 1679537142 617977 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-29-3.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: even so most of the time both processes that access the file need to be aware of transactions and access the file with them, and you can already use locking to emulate such transactions in user-space. < 1679537171 454982 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-29-3.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :kernel support for transactions, which I think Windows has to some extent, can be nice, but I think it's orthogonal to the mandatory locking thing > 1679537257 524405 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Codon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107596&oldid=107595 5* 03Dtp09 5* (+81) 10 < 1679537711 832000 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :You may be right, but depending how the operating system and also how the program is designed (and on which kind of security features you intend), you can improve some uses. < 1679540018 289450 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :What are your ideas relating to operating system design (including low-level and high-level features)? (Whether or not they are compared to other operating systems, and whether or not they could be added on to another one) < 1679540748 825051 :razetime!~Thunderbi@117.193.0.31 JOIN #esolangs razetime :razetime < 1679543190 772593 :razetime!~Thunderbi@117.193.0.31 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1679543774 653095 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679544193 483161 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net JOIN #esolangs * :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679545373 415587 :razetime!~Thunderbi@117.193.0.31 JOIN #esolangs razetime :razetime < 1679546912 491552 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679547235 168375 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net JOIN #esolangs * :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679549398 458367 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1679549534 977418 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname < 1679549991 371302 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679550380 385202 :slavfox!~slavfox@93.158.232.111 QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in < 1679550624 950826 :slavfox!~slavfox@93.158.232.111 JOIN #esolangs slavfox :slavfox < 1679552641 30171 :bgs!~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net JOIN #esolangs bgs :bgs < 1679552855 465534 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net JOIN #esolangs * :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679553091 394877 :razetime!~Thunderbi@117.193.0.31 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1679553193 352797 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1679553366 790749 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname < 1679554281 859923 :A_Dragon!A_D@libera/staff/dragon QUIT :Ping timeout: 624 seconds < 1679554737 815689 :razetime!~Thunderbi@117.193.0.31 JOIN #esolangs razetime :razetime < 1679555466 134424 :razetime!~Thunderbi@117.193.0.31 QUIT :Quit: See You Space Cowboy < 1679555494 820860 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679555547 413693 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net JOIN #esolangs * :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679556955 52290 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1679557237 276222 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1679557527 188066 :A_Dragon!A_D@libera/staff/dragon JOIN #esolangs ad :Roy Mustang, The Flame Alchemist < 1679558259 911734 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679559022 621604 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net JOIN #esolangs * :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679559175 35683 :razetime!~Thunderbi@117.193.0.31 JOIN #esolangs razetime :razetime < 1679560403 461979 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1679560431 419328 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679562318 706598 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net JOIN #esolangs * :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679565040 701575 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679565118 397544 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn JOIN #esolangs toonn :Unknown > 1679569749 650792 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Codon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107597&oldid=107596 5* 03Dtp09 5* (-53) 10/* Syntax */ < 1679570556 697033 :razetime!~Thunderbi@117.193.0.31 QUIT :Quit: See You Space Cowboy < 1679572263 775530 :slavfox!~slavfox@93.158.232.111 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1679572673 414115 :slavfox!~slavfox@93.158.232.111 JOIN #esolangs slavfox :slavfox < 1679573281 435316 :slavfox!~slavfox@93.158.232.111 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1679573445 89013 :slavfox!~slavfox@93.158.232.111 JOIN #esolangs slavfox :slavfox > 1679574044 624254 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Codon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107598&oldid=107597 5* 03Dtp09 5* (+4) 10 > 1679581526 695398 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Codon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107599&oldid=107598 5* 03Dtp09 5* (+1) 10/* Opcodes */ < 1679581816 645866 :wpa!uid568065@id-568065.helmsley.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs WeepingAngel :wpa > 1679581880 972995 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Codon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107600&oldid=107599 5* 03Dtp09 5* (-10) 10/* Opcodes */ > 1679581942 212546 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Codon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107601&oldid=107600 5* 03Dtp09 5* (-14) 10/* Syntax */ < 1679582071 434468 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1679582159 25089 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1679582225 581789 :razetime!~Thunderbi@117.193.0.31 JOIN #esolangs razetime :razetime < 1679582977 129817 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname > 1679583744 909799 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Codon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107602&oldid=107601 5* 03Dtp09 5* (+819) 10awesomesauce < 1679585744 131626 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas < 1679585826 586442 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :on the wiki, should [[Category:Implemented]] apply to a language if there's a credible claim that there is or was a working implementation, even if we can't get a copy of that implementation, such as with BANCStar? I'm asking because I found another language where this may be the case < 1679585912 659306 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm thinking of contacting the programmer and asking for a copy. But I'm somewhat scared because the person who claimed that he'll try to get the BANCStar interpreter from some old floppies disappeared, with only a user on github with recent commits remaining, and I don't want to vanish like that.\ < 1679586090 226144 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :never mind, I found the interpreter, it was merely misplaced, not entirely missing < 1679586562 263077 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :how do we still not have a bancstar implementation.. < 1679586594 838761 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :feels like surely one must've remained from the 90s, it's not _that_ long ago and was like, used in industry < 1679586713 11925 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :FireFly: either because the user who tried to get one got distracted and forgot about it and none of us tried to contact them (eg. through github), or because the floppy was unreadable. the more sinister possibility is that that user sent a copy to mroman but that caused mroman to disappear, but there's evidence against this because mroman < 1679586713 508091 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :disappeared way too late for that < 1679586739 354299 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION nods
< 1679586745 927228 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :also right now I'm trying not to disappear after I said I have a copy of this other language < 1679586750 667002 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :implementation < 1679586759 885275 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly PRIVMSG #esolangs :best of luck with not disapperaing! < 1679586762 175959 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :because I realize what it looks like from your site < 1679586986 541163 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :quick question. if a C function delcares a local variable of char type but doesn't initialize it like `char foo;` then in some code path it doesn't initialize it and then runs onto an if statement like `if (foo) yesfoo(); else nofoo();` then does that code path cause undefined behavior on the C level? < 1679586998 888867 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(yes, I'm reading typical 90s code) < 1679587186 185128 :joast!~rick@cpe-98-146-180-36.natnow.res.rr.com JOIN #esolangs joast :purple < 1679587440 719706 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :C11 6.3.2.1p2: "If the lvalue [undergoing lvalue conversion, i.e., being read] designates an object of automatic storage duration that could have been declared with the `register` storage class (never had its address taken), and that object is uninitialized --, the behavior is undefined." < 1679587522 599675 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok, looks like it is UB. not too surprising in a 1990s program, just wanted to know for sure < 1679587599 940724 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :If you *do* take its address somewhere, then that rule won't apply, and (I think) it merely has an indeterminate value, and whether it is (or could be) undefined behavior depends on whether the type in question has any trap representations. If `char` is an unsigned type, it can't have any. If it's signed, it might, unless that's specifically disallowed for the character types. < 1679587662 283755 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: I presume in that case some other similar rule might apply, about uninitialized memory < 1679587818 347806 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Maybe, but I don't think there is a similar general "automatically-undefined" rule about reading uninitialized memory. `malloc` in particular is explicitly called out to give you "an object -- whose value is indeterminate". < 1679587844 94148 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :(An indeterminate value is either an unspecified value or a trap representation.) < 1679587920 165457 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :And indeed (per C11 6.2.4p6-7) the initial values of uninitialized objects are also indeterminate. < 1679587926 663143 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok. malloc can be a problem elsewhere, but not for this function-local char variable < 1679588152 633518 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :There *is* a non-normative note in J.2p1 that "-- behavior is undefined [when:] The value of an object with automatic storage duration is used while it is indeterminate", with no additional qualifiers. But the normative sections it refers to are 6.2.4, 6.7.9 and 6.8, and I don't think any of those make it, shall we say, "unconditionally undefined". < 1679588179 550124 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Accessing it if it does happen to be a trap representation is undefined, of course.) < 1679588235 218011 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net JOIN #esolangs * :ZNC - https://znc.in > 1679589099 729428 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Codon14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107603&oldid=107602 5* 03Dtp09 5* (-1) 10/* Opcodes */ spellong error > 1679589427 619580 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Legasm14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=107604 5* 03B jonas 5* (+3207) 10Created page with "The '''Legasm''' Virtual Machine is a RISC virtual machine implemented in software, invented by Philippe Clavel and [[David Madore]] in 1998. The machine was originally intended to serve some purpose in the Legendes II game engine, but eventually got abandonned, then la > 1679589576 257435 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07David Madore14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107605&oldid=94169 5* 03B jonas 5* (+13) 10[[Legasm]] < 1679589633 760868 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in > 1679589634 290909 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Legasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107606&oldid=107604 5* 03B jonas 5* (+22) 10/* Links */ > 1679589643 625896 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107607&oldid=107549 5* 03B jonas 5* (+13) 10[[Legasm]] < 1679589867 113151 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :documented. hopefully someone downloads the implementation from http://www.madore.org/~david/legendes/versions/l980904.tgz as insurance against me disappearing < 1679589887 239004 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net JOIN #esolangs * :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679589897 828906 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I find it funny how this machine has 256 registers, of which all but the 8 bottom and 16 top ones are general-purpose registers < 1679590051 79264 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed > 1679590698 857415 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07While(true)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107608&oldid=94260 5* 03Aonodensetsu 5* (+0) 10new link < 1679591062 926052 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh no, wib_jonas disappeared. < 1679591067 777309 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :The conspiracy got to them. < 1679592913 697711 :razetime!~Thunderbi@117.193.0.31 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1679594712 95645 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-29-3.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :no, he's still there > 1679594763 346237 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Legasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=107609&oldid=107606 5* 03B jonas 5* (+82) 10carry bit < 1679595052 328467 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679595646 956229 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net JOIN #esolangs lagash :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679597056 22947 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679597066 424489 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net JOIN #esolangs * :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679598422 578273 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679598508 146372 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net JOIN #esolangs * :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679598888 725780 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think LLVM has a "freeze" instruction to force something to have a value even though it was undefined, without needing to specify what value. < 1679599002 638324 :ManDeJan!3da94070ba@user/mandejan QUIT :Write error: Connection reset by peer < 1679599003 690681 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :About BANCStar and [[Category:Implemented]], I should think that the implementation should need to be known in order to use that category. However, if an implementation of BANCStar is found, then perhaps some of the things that were guessed, we can figure out which guesses are correct and incorrect, and which things were previously not known, might have possibility to figure out < 1679599156 11824 :ManDeJan!3da94070ba@user/mandejan JOIN #esolangs ManDeJan :ManDeJan < 1679599933 173316 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679600001 14115 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-29-3.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: ok, but what does "known" mean? for example, if you can buy the implementation but it's rather expensive, imagine Matlab or Mathematica or Dyalog APL but without student discounts or trial versions, does that count as known? < 1679600146 140996 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-29-3.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :or if eg. we have a copy of the interpreter, but it only runs on some rare ancient hardware for which we don't have working hardware or emulator, or only runs on a very expensive Playstation 6, or in Adobe Flash < 1679600284 971781 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-29-3.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :or only on windows-based mobile phones or whatnot < 1679600307 446667 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net JOIN #esolangs * :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679600377 389929 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-29-3.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess if it only runs on PS6 then we just wait for ten years, which is not that long for the esolangs community, and the problem solves itself because by then people will both make emulators and figure out how to dump games on that console < 1679600384 682758 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-29-3.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and then we tag < 1679600846 200635 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-14-22.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think that you could count all of the situations that you describe as "known", although perhaps it might be sensible to define a separate category for implementations which are not commonly accessible due to reasons such as that, maybe. (But, then, how to decide exactly the line, if any?) < 1679600997 365072 :wpa!uid568065@id-568065.helmsley.irccloud.com QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1679601009 931659 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-29-3.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: in questionable cases we can just not apply any tag < 1679601042 908590 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-29-3.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and yes, I don't know of any esolangs with a weird implementation status right now, but if I can imagine it then someone can make an esolang that's deliberately like one of these < 1679602475 815545 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :I just re-read isaac asimov the last question < 1679602526 943699 :b_jonas!~x@adsl-89-134-29-3.monradsl.monornet.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, did I prompt that with the 2**63 seconds thing? < 1679604281 738015 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679604292 634026 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net JOIN #esolangs * :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679606927 513629 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679606941 654809 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net JOIN #esolangs lagash :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679608343 138799 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679608364 433960 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net JOIN #esolangs * :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679609759 791225 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679609789 808188 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net JOIN #esolangs * :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679611258 50562 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname < 1679611423 279878 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1679611583 447739 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname < 1679611609 142753 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1679611686 50005 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1679611855 758847 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1679612466 706544 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1679612491 389671 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1679612957 117213 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname < 1679614919 579068 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net QUIT :Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in < 1679615182 248830 :lagash!lagash@lagash.shelltalk.net JOIN #esolangs * :ZNC - https://znc.in