> 1686273517 131724 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bullshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109787&oldid=109786 5* 03Ashli Katt 5* (+47) 10
< 1686274298 234709 :FreeFull!~freefull@46.205.215.106 QUIT :Quit: goodnight
> 1686275583 508849 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bullshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109788&oldid=109787 5* 03Ashli Katt 5* (+7) 10
> 1686276247 343367 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bullshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109789&oldid=109788 5* 03Ashli Katt 5* (+46) 10
> 1686277870 313860 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bullshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109790&oldid=109789 5* 03Ashli Katt 5* (+780) 10/* Examples */
> 1686278465 20430 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bullshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109791&oldid=109790 5* 03Ashli Katt 5* (+18) 10
> 1686279104 127648 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Tupilled14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109792&oldid=106824 5* 03Proxxa 5* (-3) 10/* Piecewise Functions */ Fix isPeano example
> 1686279131 461769 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Tupilled14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109793&oldid=109792 5* 03Proxxa 5* (+0) 10/* Piecewise Functions */ Add necessary syntax for catch-all branch of isPeano
< 1686286427 923941 :bgs!~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net JOIN #esolangs bgs :bgs
< 1686287017 460546 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
> 1686287874 766067 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bullshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109794&oldid=109791 5* 03Ashli Katt 5* (+85) 10/* Overview */
> 1686287907 617436 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bullshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109795&oldid=109794 5* 03Ashli Katt 5* (+1) 10/* Defined Expressions */
< 1686287946 642057 :Cale!~cale@cpe80d04ade0a03-cm80d04ade0a01.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN #esolangs Cale :realname
> 1686287995 139106 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bullshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109796&oldid=109795 5* 03Ashli Katt 5* (-1) 10/* Defined Expressions */
> 1686288220 550024 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bullshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109797&oldid=109796 5* 03Ashli Katt 5* (+93) 10/* Examples */
> 1686288859 664851 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Xeroxer14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=109798 5* 03Pro465 5* (+773) 10Created page with "{{stub}} '''Xeroxer''' is an [[OISC]] by [[User:Pro465]]. it has only one command: <br> <pre> cpy idx, len | copies the instructions from idx..idx + len to the end of the program, then goto the next instruction. </pre>  == Properties == it kinda is like a [[Cyclic tag sys
> 1686288873 609504 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bullshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109799&oldid=109797 5* 03Ashli Katt 5* (+88) 10/* Examples */
> 1686289008 357825 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109800&oldid=109747 5* 03Pro465 5* (+14) 10/* X */ add xeroxer
< 1686291716 668081 :bgs!~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
> 1686295854 58239 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Xeroxer14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109801&oldid=109798 5* 03Pro465 5* (-455) 10i was wrong
< 1686296672 807501 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
> 1686298018 95786 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Unfair14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109802&oldid=82788 5* 03Gilbert189 5* (+520) 10Grammar fix
< 1686301478 586370 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
< 1686301512 576643 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1686301557 904661 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 NICK :Lord_of_Life
> 1686303727 861782 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Marbles14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109803&oldid=109627 5* 03Vxgmichel 5* (-2) 10
> 1686303839 126686 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Marbles14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109804&oldid=109803 5* 03Vxgmichel 5* (+1) 10
< 1686304167 557031 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas
< 1686305886 894437 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://termbin.com/ohi3 I just saw this
< 1686305897 782688 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://asciinema.org/a/buK3Lx61fEYvgMYI0yfjoxEdZ
< 1686305923 677680 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :that is really cool
< 1686306146 109108 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :. o O ( now golf it )
< 1686306227 811047 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm actually if you perform the moves backwards you can use y/// for the permutations.
< 1686306792 105353 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :I can't think how that would work
< 1686307349 544658 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :river: like this: https://paste.debian.net/1282467/
< 1686307383 983307 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :ahh nice one!!
< 1686307469 761046 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's working on the inverse of the permutation... that's what swapping the roles of the labels and the places gets you
< 1686307497 969758 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :that is really neat 
< 1686307535 591795 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and it has to work backwars because of (pq)^-1 = q^-1 p^-1
< 1686307540 972488 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :*backwards
< 1686307776 102473 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :of course once you do that you can also intialize the pattern space with the already-formatted cube and only leave the coloring to the very end.
< 1686307782 984908 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: one method to golf rubik's cube code is to represent the cube by a 5x5x5 array of colors, where the inner 3x3x3 is all zeros representing the cubies, and the adjacent six 3x3 parts represent the stickers. this way you can do a side rotation by permuting elements of a 2 thick slice with a rotation.
< 1686307794 605356 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :getting rid of lines 53-60 (in my paste)
< 1686307802 213641 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(the edges and corners of the 5x5x5 cube will also be all zeros)
< 1686307849 670190 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: cute but not applicable to this sed script :)
> 1686307885 785692 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainfuck with while 0 loops14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=109805 5* 03ChuckEsoteric08 5* (+865) 10Created page with "This page is proof that brainfuck with unbounded tape and cells and while 0 loops is Turing complete. Which is proven by simulation of Cyclic Tag: ==Initialise data== put <code>+>></code> at the start of a program then initialise program with
< 1686307968 441218 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: yeah, that would be awkward to do in sed
< 1686308022 805560 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :by the way I mostly thought of this not for golf, but for a reference implementation to compare to to test an optimized rubik's cube implementation
< 1686308097 900158 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's a good way to get close to the "obviously correct" ideal.
< 1686308110 189234 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I had some very old rubik's cube code that I've now lost and where the implementation involved large hand-written tables of numbers describing the side rotations, which was of course both a bad idea and not very optimized, and I definitely won't repeat it the next time I write rubik's cube code.
< 1686308519 173078 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://store.steampowered.com/bundle/29913/Brilliant_Boxes_Bundle/
< 1686308525 645513 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've played 3/4 of these
< 1686308752 281448 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn JOIN #esolangs toonn :Unknown
< 1686308785 65350 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Only 2/4 here. Moncage looks more like an escape room type of game?
< 1686308864 66600 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :which other one have you not tried?
< 1686308865 707027 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I played the Parabox demo, and despite being just a few levels it felt a bit repetititve.
< 1686308869 769322 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh okay
< 1686308887 705769 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I might get the full game if it ever drops below $7 or so.
< 1686308894 296995 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :The thing I like about parabox was gur rkcybengvbaf bs gur qvssrerag glcrf bs vasvavgl
< 1686308900 369355 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :im not sure if the demo does it justice
< 1686308913 777629 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :I skipped a lot of levels, I kinda did the minimum to progerss
< 1686308930 426096 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I still thought it was pretty special. it's different to recursed
< 1686309005 430106 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I still have stuff left in Recursed (because of the community-made levels from https://recursed-ice-palace.github.io/ which are quite hard)
< 1686309072 934544 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :I didn't quite 100% recursed, but I got very close
< 1686309085 613456 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :I sort of want to revisit it
< 1686309094 115069 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :I didn't dare touch ice palace though
< 1686309167 650364 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think I did it for the main game? Though I did look up which levels feature rubies and diamonds.
< 1686309201 479625 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :including secret keveks?
< 1686309208 493258 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :oops
< 1686309354 967714 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think the first set of puzzles in the ice palace is quite manageable still... though I'm missing some levels there too: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/cursedice1.png (compare to https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/cursedice2.png which is far more sparse)
< 1686309367 130751 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :river: yes, including all the hidden levels
< 1686309388 39773 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :i got very stuck on a hidden..
< 1686309406 728145 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :btw if you like shapez you might like factorio with the pyanodons mod
< 1686309412 197702 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :they are harder
< 1686309709 521700 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I actually played Recursed to 100% achievement completion, though a couple of the achievements are really weird (I looked at a guide for the last 2 or 3 achievements I was missing.)
< 1686309833 623047 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Anyway. I think I'll play Parabox eventually.
< 1686309873 299177 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Factorio, probably not, because it's not minimalistic.
< 1686309979 953776 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :which was the main appeal of shapez.io to me
< 1686310497 291560 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait, ice palace? oh, that one isn't about Patrick's Parabox
< 1686310518 585115 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :river: eww no thanks
< 1686310681 331506 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :why
< 1686310798 176936 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :river: pyanodon is horribly long and so it gets boring for most players, even the ones who play other mods that extend the playtime of factorio, because pyanodon just takes that and dials it up to twenty.
< 1686310809 147032 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's the point
< 1686310822 315445 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't see why you'd recommend it to a shapez player.
< 1686310837 139848 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :because conveyer belts move items around
< 1686310918 874202 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1686311028 990766 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm I never finished my 6-factory shapez design. Probably won't happen either. But I wish the puzzle DLC was on itch.io... I'm not sure whether it's actually good but I was intrigued.
> 1686311067 803987 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Xeroxer14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109806&oldid=109801 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+18) 10Category
< 1686311366 789271 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I mean, https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-v5x6-wip.png is 9 months old now, and that's the last time I touched it.
< 1686311381 567951 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :it looks like a cpu
< 1686311450 492519 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-v4-footprint.png actually worked
< 1686311634 797347 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :river: The thing is, every shape is a stack of (up to) four slices, and each slice is composed of 4 quadrants. So the design is built on top of a slice maker, https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-V5%3F.png , replicated 4 times for a full shape. And then that is replicated 6 times in that design.
< 1686311651 848860 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs ::D
< 1686311660 831837 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so you get that regular pattern
< 1686311703 490101 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and in the other dimension there's regularity because it's selecting from 7 colors (so that's a regular-ish grid) and 4 shapes (another regular-ish grid)
< 1686311802 434857 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and on the outside there is a bit of chaos because resources are scattered across the grid and have to be brought to the, well, processing core.
< 1686312024 752838 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :river: and of course a big part of that resemblence is the simplified graphics when things are zoomed out like that
< 1686312458 961547 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :for example, the very top part to the left of https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-V5%3F.png looks like this when zoomed in: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-combined-mixer.png
< 1686312476 190984 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :or no, it's the version to the right
< 1686312476 588608 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas
< 1686312514 818781 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I haven't played it, but I suspect that the puzzle DLC is just hoping that unpayed players can come up with good puzzle levels and they can resell those to you
< 1686312542 150406 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :not a very good recipe, it only ever works when you have a really good game with already excellent level design
< 1686313025 617197 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I thought they had their own set of puzzles
< 1686313124 225983 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess I could take advantage of the current sale on steam to get the DLC basically at its nominal price
< 1686313298 421853 :isabella!izabera@user/izabera JOIN #esolangs izabera :izabera
< 1686313326 285030 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: sure, I just don't know whether their puzzles are good
< 1686313391 752149 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess you could look for reviews online. that's the good part about video games, lots of other people have already played it and are telling their opinions an reviews in youtube videos and elsewhere
< 1686313587 398082 :isabella!izabera@user/izabera PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://github.com/izabera/cube.sed
< 1686313591 924750 :isabella!izabera@user/izabera PRIVMSG #esolangs :does sed count as esoteric
< 1686313635 664522 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: Well I bought it. But I think it will be a few days at least before I get around to testing it out.
< 1686313676 308438 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: If it sucks I'll be okay with that too... the main game gave me enough entertainment to justify the extra tip, so to speak.
< 1686313710 989835 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :isabella: we discussed that earlier, well the 2x2x2 version
< 1686313717 701283 :isabella!izabera@user/izabera PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah
< 1686313719 236568 :isabella!izabera@user/izabera PRIVMSG #esolangs :sorry
< 1686313733 804009 :isabella!izabera@user/izabera PRIVMSG #esolangs :haven't been in here for a bit
< 1686313736 821732 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :isabella: don't worry.
< 1686313744 898179 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that was a "yes"
< 1686313751 753913 :isabella!izabera@user/izabera PRIVMSG #esolangs :"nice"
< 1686313761 143573 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION came up with this variant on performing the moves: https://paste.debian.net/1282467/

< 1686313800 941357 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :isabella: https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2023-06-09.html#lC ff.
< 1686313846 109767 :isabella!izabera@user/izabera PRIVMSG #esolangs :didn't think of doing it like that
< 1686313847 247933 :isabella!izabera@user/izabera PRIVMSG #esolangs :nice
< 1686313957 478193 :isabella!izabera@user/izabera PRIVMSG #esolangs :kind of humbling that it took me like a day of iterations to get there and you did it in a minute
< 1686314024 110280 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's just one trick. and debugging is much easier when there's a reference implementation. (No, I didn't get the permutations correct on the first try.)
< 1686314092 678225 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :And if I hadn't had the idea we wouldn't have this discussion.
< 1686314393 581221 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, transforming the inverse with y///. nice.
< 1686314408 316347 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I mean storing the inverse
< 1686314602 554331 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :isabella: Also if you look at the timestamps it took me 20 minutes from the idea to actual working code. That's... well neither slow nor fast I guess.
> 1686314618 189557 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07GotoStart Turing-completness proof14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109807&oldid=109307 5* 03ChuckEsoteric08 5* (+0) 10Fix Typo
< 1686314893 352908 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't remember in which context I've used this trick for working with permutations before... but I have used it.
> 1686314938 1185 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:ChuckEsoteric0814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109808&oldid=109759 5* 03ChuckEsoteric08 5* (+34) 10
< 1686314945 665004 :isabella!izabera@user/izabera PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'll keep it in mind, it's a good trick 
< 1686314947 146872 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Because even in other programming contexts it's generally easier to translate entries of a list according to a table than to shuffle them.
> 1686315502 293770 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07VarStack14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109809&oldid=108639 5* 03ChuckEsoteric08 5* (-1) 10
< 1686315703 890919 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: no, that's a false dichotomy in this case, because you're composing two permutations, so translating the elements of the first permutation using the second is exactly the same as permuting the elements of the second according to the first, both just do for(k) r[k] = a[b[k]], only in one case you think of a as describing the translation that
< 1686315704 354819 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you apply to each element of the array b, while in the second case you think of b as the permtation according which you shuffle the array a
< 1686316187 293552 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I should've specified that I meant doing this in-place.
< 1686316307 99640 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: you don't need to do it in place for a rubik's cube, unless perhaps you're using one of these silly large big cubes that only exist in computer-generated videos and you're rotating just one slice so you have to modify only a small part of the array
< 1686317103 507229 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that doesn't invalidate a point about in-place operations
< 1686317238 614328 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :The opposite is also sometimes true; when representing permutations compactly (say 16 4-bit values for a permutation of 16 numbers) doing table lookups is more involved than permuting the bits.
< 1686317288 465694 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok, but even then you just get that for(k) r[k] = a[b[k]] works fine when you output in place to b==r but not when you try to output in place to a
< 1686317420 621491 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I still don't understand how that works, those are still the same operation with the input arguments swapped, why would one be better than the other? unless you mean that only one of the two arrays is represented compactly (or is just long) and you're composing them in opposite directions
< 1686317534 615625 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :well in our case, one of the arguments is fixed and can't be overwritten
< 1686317542 52038 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so it really matters which one is updated
< 1686317610 273374 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :So in this view, the trick is that you can swap the arguments (and thus which of them you can conveniently update) if you represent the permutations by their inverses instead.
< 1686317847 132709 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: yes, I agree with that
< 1686319131 820791 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron
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< 1686322941 412962 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://btm.qva.mybluehost.me/building-arbitrary-life-patterns-in-15-gliders/
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< 1686328782 478934 :Soni!~quassel@autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :proposal: 3SQL, it's just SQL but you can only use 3 columns (can use as many tables and rows as you want tho)
< 1686330793 478527 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"any pattern that has a glider synthesis" ...okay that answers the question about garden of Eden patterns
< 1686331031 894453 :FreeFull!~freefull@46.205.215.106.nat.ftth.dynamic.t-mobile.pl JOIN #esolangs FreeFull :FreeFull
< 1686331434 508462 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :related: https://conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=140269#p140258
< 1686332354 493815 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :3SQL hehe
< 1686332360 917016 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :is that NP hard?
< 1686332378 277509 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :np complete*
< 1686333806 650866 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.114 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Soni: that's kind of how key-value databases work as opposed to relational databases
< 1686333832 921674 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.114 PRIVMSG #esolangs :key-value databases have a bit more restrictions beyond that, but still
< 1686334344 623676 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :there's also a cool thing called tuple spaces
< 1686335309 835665 :Soni!~quassel@autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: but can you use FKs and all the other good stuff?
> 1686337069 80909 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Lightura 5*  10New user account
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> 1686340251 836945 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bullshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109811&oldid=109799 5* 03Ashli Katt 5* (+1) 10/* About */
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> 1686352303 801371 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bullshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109812&oldid=109811 5* 03Ashli Katt 5* (+9) 10/* Overview */
> 1686352376 86286 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bullshit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109813&oldid=109812 5* 03Ashli Katt 5* (+137) 10/* Defined Expressions */
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