←2023-06-08 2023-06-09 2023-06-10→ ↑2023 ↑all
01:18:37 <esolangs> [[Bullshit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109787&oldid=109786 * Ashli Katt * (+47)
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01:53:03 <esolangs> [[Bullshit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109788&oldid=109787 * Ashli Katt * (+7)
02:04:07 <esolangs> [[Bullshit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109789&oldid=109788 * Ashli Katt * (+46)
02:31:10 <esolangs> [[Bullshit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109790&oldid=109789 * Ashli Katt * (+780) /* Examples */
02:41:05 <esolangs> [[Bullshit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109791&oldid=109790 * Ashli Katt * (+18)
02:51:44 <esolangs> [[Tupilled]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109792&oldid=106824 * Proxxa * (-3) /* Piecewise Functions */ Fix isPeano example
02:52:11 <esolangs> [[Tupilled]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109793&oldid=109792 * Proxxa * (+0) /* Piecewise Functions */ Add necessary syntax for catch-all branch of isPeano
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05:17:54 <esolangs> [[Bullshit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109794&oldid=109791 * Ashli Katt * (+85) /* Overview */
05:18:27 <esolangs> [[Bullshit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109795&oldid=109794 * Ashli Katt * (+1) /* Defined Expressions */
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05:19:55 <esolangs> [[Bullshit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109796&oldid=109795 * Ashli Katt * (-1) /* Defined Expressions */
05:23:40 <esolangs> [[Bullshit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109797&oldid=109796 * Ashli Katt * (+93) /* Examples */
05:34:19 <esolangs> [[Xeroxer]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=109798 * Pro465 * (+773) Created page with "{{stub}} '''Xeroxer''' is an [[OISC]] by [[User:Pro465]]. it has only one command: <br> <pre> cpy idx, len | copies the instructions from idx..idx + len to the end of the program, then goto the next instruction. </pre> == Properties == it kinda is like a [[Cyclic tag sys
05:34:33 <esolangs> [[Bullshit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109799&oldid=109797 * Ashli Katt * (+88) /* Examples */
05:36:48 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109800&oldid=109747 * Pro465 * (+14) /* X */ add xeroxer
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07:30:54 <esolangs> [[Xeroxer]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109801&oldid=109798 * Pro465 * (-455) i was wrong
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08:06:58 <esolangs> [[Unfair]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109802&oldid=82788 * Gilbert189 * (+520) Grammar fix
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09:42:07 <esolangs> [[Marbles]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109803&oldid=109627 * Vxgmichel * (-2)
09:43:59 <esolangs> [[Marbles]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109804&oldid=109803 * Vxgmichel * (+1)
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10:18:06 <river> https://termbin.com/ohi3 I just saw this
10:18:17 <river> https://asciinema.org/a/buK3Lx61fEYvgMYI0yfjoxEdZ
10:18:43 <river> that is really cool
10:22:26 <int-e> . o O ( now golf it )
10:23:47 <int-e> Hmm actually if you perform the moves backwards you can use y/// for the permutations.
10:33:12 <river> I can't think how that would work
10:42:29 <int-e> river: like this: https://paste.debian.net/1282467/
10:43:03 <river> ahh nice one!!
10:44:29 <int-e> it's working on the inverse of the permutation... that's what swapping the roles of the labels and the places gets you
10:44:57 <river> that is really neat
10:45:35 <int-e> and it has to work backwars because of (pq)^-1 = q^-1 p^-1
10:45:40 <int-e> *backwards
10:49:36 <int-e> of course once you do that you can also intialize the pattern space with the already-formatted cube and only leave the coloring to the very end.
10:49:42 <wib_jonas> int-e: one method to golf rubik's cube code is to represent the cube by a 5x5x5 array of colors, where the inner 3x3x3 is all zeros representing the cubies, and the adjacent six 3x3 parts represent the stickers. this way you can do a side rotation by permuting elements of a 2 thick slice with a rotation.
10:49:54 <int-e> getting rid of lines 53-60 (in my paste)
10:50:02 <wib_jonas> (the edges and corners of the 5x5x5 cube will also be all zeros)
10:50:49 <int-e> wib_jonas: cute but not applicable to this sed script :)
10:51:25 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck with while 0 loops]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=109805 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+865) Created page with "This page is proof that brainfuck with unbounded tape and cells and while 0 loops is Turing complete. Which is proven by simulation of Cyclic Tag: ==Initialise data== put <code>+>></code> at the start of a program then initialise program with
10:52:48 <wib_jonas> int-e: yeah, that would be awkward to do in sed
10:53:42 <wib_jonas> by the way I mostly thought of this not for golf, but for a reference implementation to compare to to test an optimized rubik's cube implementation
10:54:57 <int-e> It's a good way to get close to the "obviously correct" ideal.
10:55:10 <wib_jonas> I had some very old rubik's cube code that I've now lost and where the implementation involved large hand-written tables of numbers describing the side rotations, which was of course both a bad idea and not very optimized, and I definitely won't repeat it the next time I write rubik's cube code.
11:01:59 <river> https://store.steampowered.com/bundle/29913/Brilliant_Boxes_Bundle/
11:02:05 <river> I've played 3/4 of these
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11:06:25 <int-e> Only 2/4 here. Moncage looks more like an escape room type of game?
11:07:44 <river> which other one have you not tried?
11:07:45 <int-e> I played the Parabox demo, and despite being just a few levels it felt a bit repetititve.
11:07:49 <river> oh okay
11:08:07 <int-e> I might get the full game if it ever drops below $7 or so.
11:08:14 <river> The thing I like about parabox was gur rkcybengvbaf bs gur qvssrerag glcrf bs vasvavgl
11:08:20 <river> im not sure if the demo does it justice
11:08:33 <river> I skipped a lot of levels, I kinda did the minimum to progerss
11:08:50 <river> but I still thought it was pretty special. it's different to recursed
11:10:05 <int-e> I still have stuff left in Recursed (because of the community-made levels from https://recursed-ice-palace.github.io/ which are quite hard)
11:11:12 <river> I didn't quite 100% recursed, but I got very close
11:11:25 <river> I sort of want to revisit it
11:11:34 <river> I didn't dare touch ice palace though
11:12:47 <int-e> I think I did it for the main game? Though I did look up which levels feature rubies and diamonds.
11:13:21 <river> including secret keveks?
11:13:28 <river> oops
11:15:54 <int-e> I think the first set of puzzles in the ice palace is quite manageable still... though I'm missing some levels there too: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/cursedice1.png (compare to https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/cursedice2.png which is far more sparse)
11:16:07 <int-e> river: yes, including all the hidden levels
11:16:28 <river> i got very stuck on a hidden..
11:16:46 <river> btw if you like shapez you might like factorio with the pyanodons mod
11:16:52 <int-e> they are harder
11:21:49 <int-e> I actually played Recursed to 100% achievement completion, though a couple of the achievements are really weird (I looked at a guide for the last 2 or 3 achievements I was missing.)
11:23:53 <int-e> Anyway. I think I'll play Parabox eventually.
11:24:33 <int-e> Factorio, probably not, because it's not minimalistic.
11:26:19 <int-e> which was the main appeal of shapez.io to me
11:34:57 <wib_jonas> wait, ice palace? oh, that one isn't about Patrick's Parabox
11:35:18 <wib_jonas> river: eww no thanks
11:38:01 <river> why
11:39:58 <wib_jonas> river: pyanodon is horribly long and so it gets boring for most players, even the ones who play other mods that extend the playtime of factorio, because pyanodon just takes that and dials it up to twenty.
11:40:09 <river> that's the point
11:40:22 <wib_jonas> I don't see why you'd recommend it to a shapez player.
11:40:37 <river> because conveyer belts move items around
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11:43:48 <int-e> Hmm I never finished my 6-factory shapez design. Probably won't happen either. But I wish the puzzle DLC was on itch.io... I'm not sure whether it's actually good but I was intrigued.
11:44:27 <esolangs> [[Xeroxer]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109806&oldid=109801 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+18) Category
11:49:26 <int-e> I mean, https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-v5x6-wip.png is 9 months old now, and that's the last time I touched it.
11:49:41 <river> it looks like a cpu
11:50:50 <int-e> https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-v4-footprint.png actually worked
11:53:54 <int-e> river: The thing is, every shape is a stack of (up to) four slices, and each slice is composed of 4 quadrants. So the design is built on top of a slice maker, https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-V5%3F.png , replicated 4 times for a full shape. And then that is replicated 6 times in that design.
11:54:11 <river> :D
11:54:20 <int-e> so you get that regular pattern
11:55:03 <int-e> and in the other dimension there's regularity because it's selecting from 7 colors (so that's a regular-ish grid) and 4 shapes (another regular-ish grid)
11:56:42 <int-e> and on the outside there is a bit of chaos because resources are scattered across the grid and have to be brought to the, well, processing core.
12:00:24 <int-e> river: and of course a big part of that resemblence is the simplified graphics when things are zoomed out like that
12:07:38 <int-e> for example, the very top part to the left of https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-V5%3F.png looks like this when zoomed in: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-combined-mixer.png
12:07:56 <int-e> or no, it's the version to the right
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12:08:34 <wib_jonas> I haven't played it, but I suspect that the puzzle DLC is just hoping that unpayed players can come up with good puzzle levels and they can resell those to you
12:09:02 <wib_jonas> not a very good recipe, it only ever works when you have a really good game with already excellent level design
12:17:05 <int-e> I thought they had their own set of puzzles
12:18:44 <int-e> I guess I could take advantage of the current sale on steam to get the DLC basically at its nominal price
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12:22:06 <wib_jonas> int-e: sure, I just don't know whether their puzzles are good
12:23:11 <wib_jonas> I guess you could look for reviews online. that's the good part about video games, lots of other people have already played it and are telling their opinions an reviews in youtube videos and elsewhere
12:26:27 <isabella> https://github.com/izabera/cube.sed
12:26:31 <isabella> does sed count as esoteric
12:27:15 <int-e> wib_jonas: Well I bought it. But I think it will be a few days at least before I get around to testing it out.
12:27:56 <int-e> wib_jonas: If it sucks I'll be okay with that too... the main game gave me enough entertainment to justify the extra tip, so to speak.
12:28:30 <int-e> isabella: we discussed that earlier, well the 2x2x2 version
12:28:37 <isabella> ah
12:28:39 <isabella> sorry
12:28:53 <isabella> haven't been in here for a bit
12:28:56 <int-e> isabella: don't worry.
12:29:04 <int-e> that was a "yes"
12:29:11 <isabella> "nice"
12:29:21 * int-e came up with this variant on performing the moves: https://paste.debian.net/1282467/
12:30:00 <int-e> isabella: https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2023-06-09.html#lC ff.
12:30:46 <isabella> didn't think of doing it like that
12:30:47 <isabella> nice
12:32:37 <isabella> kind of humbling that it took me like a day of iterations to get there and you did it in a minute
12:33:44 <int-e> it's just one trick. and debugging is much easier when there's a reference implementation. (No, I didn't get the permutations correct on the first try.)
12:34:52 <int-e> And if I hadn't had the idea we wouldn't have this discussion.
12:39:53 <wib_jonas> oh, transforming the inverse with y///. nice.
12:40:08 <wib_jonas> I mean storing the inverse
12:43:22 <int-e> isabella: Also if you look at the timestamps it took me 20 minutes from the idea to actual working code. That's... well neither slow nor fast I guess.
12:43:38 <esolangs> [[GotoStart Turing-completness proof]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109807&oldid=109307 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+0) Fix Typo
12:48:13 <int-e> I don't remember in which context I've used this trick for working with permutations before... but I have used it.
12:48:58 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109808&oldid=109759 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+34)
12:49:05 <isabella> I'll keep it in mind, it's a good trick
12:49:07 <int-e> Because even in other programming contexts it's generally easier to translate entries of a list according to a table than to shuffle them.
12:58:22 <esolangs> [[VarStack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109809&oldid=108639 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-1)
13:01:43 <wib_jonas> int-e: no, that's a false dichotomy in this case, because you're composing two permutations, so translating the elements of the first permutation using the second is exactly the same as permuting the elements of the second according to the first, both just do for(k) r[k] = a[b[k]], only in one case you think of a as describing the translation that
13:01:44 <wib_jonas> you apply to each element of the array b, while in the second case you think of b as the permtation according which you shuffle the array a
13:09:47 <int-e> I should've specified that I meant doing this in-place.
13:11:47 <wib_jonas> int-e: you don't need to do it in place for a rubik's cube, unless perhaps you're using one of these silly large big cubes that only exist in computer-generated videos and you're rotating just one slice so you have to modify only a small part of the array
13:25:03 <int-e> that doesn't invalidate a point about in-place operations
13:27:18 <int-e> The opposite is also sometimes true; when representing permutations compactly (say 16 4-bit values for a permutation of 16 numbers) doing table lookups is more involved than permuting the bits.
13:28:08 <wib_jonas> ok, but even then you just get that for(k) r[k] = a[b[k]] works fine when you output in place to b==r but not when you try to output in place to a
13:30:20 <wib_jonas> I still don't understand how that works, those are still the same operation with the input arguments swapped, why would one be better than the other? unless you mean that only one of the two arrays is represented compactly (or is just long) and you're composing them in opposite directions
13:32:14 <int-e> well in our case, one of the arguments is fixed and can't be overwritten
13:32:22 <int-e> so it really matters which one is updated
13:33:30 <int-e> So in this view, the trick is that you can swap the arguments (and thus which of them you can conveniently update) if you represent the permutations by their inverses instead.
13:37:27 <wib_jonas> int-e: yes, I agree with that
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15:02:21 <river> https://btm.qva.mybluehost.me/building-arbitrary-life-patterns-in-15-gliders/
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16:39:42 <Soni> proposal: 3SQL, it's just SQL but you can only use 3 columns (can use as many tables and rows as you want tho)
17:13:13 <int-e> "any pattern that has a glider synthesis" ...okay that answers the question about garden of Eden patterns
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17:23:54 <int-e> related: https://conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=140269#p140258
17:39:14 <river> 3SQL hehe
17:39:20 <river> is that NP hard?
17:39:38 <river> np complete*
18:03:26 <b_jonas> Soni: that's kind of how key-value databases work as opposed to relational databases
18:03:52 <b_jonas> key-value databases have a bit more restrictions beyond that, but still
18:12:24 <river> there's also a cool thing called tuple spaces
18:28:29 <Soni> b_jonas: but can you use FKs and all the other good stuff?
18:57:49 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Lightura * New user account
19:07:01 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109810&oldid=109773 * Lightura * (+194)
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19:50:51 <esolangs> [[Bullshit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109811&oldid=109799 * Ashli Katt * (+1) /* About */
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23:11:43 <esolangs> [[Bullshit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109812&oldid=109811 * Ashli Katt * (+9) /* Overview */
23:12:56 <esolangs> [[Bullshit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109813&oldid=109812 * Ashli Katt * (+137) /* Defined Expressions */
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