←2023-06-14 2023-06-15 2023-06-16→ ↑2023 ↑all
00:04:56 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
00:06:05 -!- chiselfuse has joined.
00:20:08 <esolangs> [[User:BoundedBeans/INTERCAL Tic-Tac-Toe]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=109954 * BoundedBeans * (+12704) Created page with "I wrote Tic-Tac-Toe in INTERCAL. It is a two-player game with alternating input, not a tic-tac-toe AI (I have no idea how to even make one). ==How to use== The game will display the board, then whose turn it is. Enter the X coordina
00:22:15 <esolangs> [[User:BoundedBeans]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109955&oldid=109736 * BoundedBeans * (+115)
00:25:18 <esolangs> [[Sprupine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109956&oldid=109734 * BoundedBeans * (+43) Added comment
02:26:01 <esolangs> [[Eod]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=109957 * Icecream17 * (+3682) create language eod
02:30:27 <esolangs> [[Super Mario 64]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109958&oldid=83097 * Icecream17 * (+5) complete parenthetical
04:16:56 -!- Goblin42 has joined.
04:17:02 -!- Goblin42 has quit (Client Quit).
05:25:44 -!- perlbot_ has joined.
05:26:00 -!- perlbot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
05:26:45 -!- simcop2387_ has joined.
05:26:48 -!- perlbot_ has changed nick to perlbot.
05:27:21 -!- simcop2387 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
05:28:02 -!- simcop2387_ has changed nick to simcop2387.
05:58:24 -!- wpa has joined.
06:00:05 -!- wpa has changed nick to earend1.
06:00:15 -!- earend1 has changed nick to earend11.
07:41:25 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
07:49:46 -!- earend11 has changed nick to wpa.
09:09:56 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
09:10:13 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
09:40:31 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
09:55:49 -!- razetime has joined.
10:18:44 -!- wpa has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
10:28:10 -!- Franciman has joined.
12:28:56 -!- __monty__ has joined.
12:59:24 -!- HackEso has joined.
13:05:48 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109959&oldid=109908 * Cinnamony * (+46)
13:06:11 <esolangs> [[Robotic Smiley Face]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=109960 * Cinnamony * (+28) Created page with "REDIRECT Robotic smiley face"
13:06:36 <esolangs> [[Robotic Smiley Face]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109961&oldid=109960 * Cinnamony * (+4)
13:25:32 <esolangs> [[QWERTYUIOP]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=109962 * Cinnamony * (+1879) Created page with "QWERTYUIOP is a semi-joke esoteric programming language created by [[User:Cinnamony|Cinnamony]]. QWERTYUIOP is designed to look like keyboard mashing. ==Commands== Q - Print ascii of memory slot W - Clear memory slot to 0 E - Increase memory slot by 1 R - Increase
13:25:53 <esolangs> [[QWERTYUIOP]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109963&oldid=109962 * Cinnamony * (+1) /* =99 Bottles of Beer */
13:28:51 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109964&oldid=109959 * Cinnamony * (+17) /* Q */
13:37:45 -!- ais523 has joined.
13:38:41 <ais523> FortyTwo (for the logs): I'm not sure exactly how the language you're describing works: what is n? if it's the number of ticks since the start of the program, what happens if a clock goes below 0 (rather than to 0)?
13:39:45 <ais523> my immediate reaction to what you've described is "when n gets large enough, won't 2^n be higher than all the zeroing triggers, meaning all the counters zero every step, thus it obviously isn't TC?", but I suspect I've misunderstood the specification
13:40:21 <esolangs> [[H+]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=109965 * Cinnamony * (+1176) Created page with "H+ (Or HWorld+) is a joke esoteric programming language that is an extension of [[H]]. The extended parts were made by [[User:Cinnamony|Cinnamony]]. ==Commands== h - Prints out "Hello!". w - Prints out "World!". hw - Prints out "Hello, world!". hh - Prints out "Hello,
13:41:17 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109966&oldid=109901 * Cinnamony * (+13)
13:44:34 <ais523> ooh, I just realised you're probably talking about a flooding variant with 2^n decreases
13:46:24 <ais523> that seems hard to analyze (and I'm not sure specifically how to calculate the value that gets added)
13:50:18 <ais523> it'd be easier to work on this sort of thing if the behaviour of the counters was given in a more programming-language-like way (i.e. with two variables, one is the value of the counter, one is the "floodiness" of the counter, and rules for when each gets incremented and by how much)
13:50:26 <ais523> but even then it might be too difficult
13:50:56 <esolangs> [[Bgt]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=109967 * Cinnamony * (+427) Created page with "Bgt is a joke esoteric programming language speedran by [[User:Cinnamony|Cinnamony]]. Let's see how long it takes to write this one. ==Commands== P - prints the character infront of it K - prints the input L - prints 99 bottles of beer on the wall J - prints fizzbuzz
13:51:33 <ais523> fwiw, I've also been thinking about M:tG Turing-completeness recently from the point of view of "what's the minimum number of cards needed in a sideboard to set up a TC gamestate, assuming you're starting with sufficient mana and wishes"
13:52:00 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109968&oldid=109966 * Cinnamony * (+41)
13:52:30 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109969&oldid=109968 * Cinnamony * (+0)
13:53:39 <esolangs> [[Talk:C@]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109970&oldid=101971 * Cinnamony * (+154) /* i did it in less than 3 minutes */ new section
13:54:00 <esolangs> [[Bgt]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109971&oldid=109967 * Cinnamony * (+2) /* =Cat */
13:54:09 <esolangs> [[Bgt]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109972&oldid=109971 * Cinnamony * (+1) /* 99 Bottles of Beer= */
13:56:22 -!- FortyTwo has joined.
13:57:15 <FortyTwo> looking at the logs yeah thats basically it ais523
13:58:15 <ais523> am I correct that the "original" flooding version works like this: whenever a counter becomes zero, each counter increases by (value of the appropriate zeroing trigger) × (number of cycles since the start of the program)?
13:58:32 <FortyTwo> no
13:59:08 <FortyTwo> its appropriate zeroing trigger * number of cycles since it last zeroed
13:59:26 <ais523> ah, since this counter last zeroed
13:59:41 <FortyTwo> neither variant is tc though
13:59:44 <ais523> and your modification uses the same value for the increases? but the decreases are larger?
14:00:33 <FortyTwo> basically this variant is normal waterfall but using max +c instead of addition
14:00:58 <ais523> it is normally very hard to prove something not-TC, except in cases where it's very easy to prove it nont-TC
14:01:02 <ais523> * not-TC
14:01:07 <FortyTwo> which means that once every non halting clock has tripped, the number of states is bounded
14:01:29 <ais523> ah yes, a bounded number of states woudl do it
14:01:47 <FortyTwo> which also proved flooding waterfall not TC as well
14:03:49 <ais523> is there a forum thread on this, btw? might be easier for me to check the background there
14:05:03 <ais523> I've been popping into the max-non-infinite-damage thread from time to time, just to read it, although it can take a while for me to get my head around it
14:05:20 -!- razetime has quit (Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.).
14:05:21 <ais523> (although I haven't checked it recently)
14:05:47 <FortyTwo> yeah it recently siffered a massive blow due to how dependency loops work
14:05:51 <FortyTwo> suffered
14:07:26 <FortyTwo> basically if you hack dranlu's crusades into a loop, A->B B->C C->D D->A and you have say a C its a ABCD and gets +4/+4 But making another type can actually shrink it!
14:07:40 <ais523> fwiw my main interest in that hasn't been so much iterating busy beaver functions, as trying to get the highest possible confidence that a setup that runs a busy beaver even once doesn't have any infinites hiding in it
14:08:27 <ais523> but wow, are layers being even more unintuitive than usual there?
14:09:24 <FortyTwo> yeah because if there's a conflict, then instead of it resolving in a normal way, the whole loop is locked and applied in timestamp order
14:09:43 <ais523> although, the TCness construction with Dralnu's Crusade doesn't require any loops, or even dependencies, does it? so the only problem would be if you could somehow use a dependency loop to construct an infinite
14:10:03 <FortyTwo> so if you make a D and already have a C, the first crusade to be applied, could be A->B, which does nothing
14:10:40 <FortyTwo> but breaks the loop for the future, and now the C shrinks and could die.
14:11:22 <esolangs> [[Tjr min]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=109973 * Cinnamony * (+731) Created page with "Tjr min (stylized "tjr min") is a joke esoteric programming language created by [[User:Cinnamony|Cinnamony]]. The only goal for this language was to be turing complete. ==Commands== read(slot) - Prints out the number in a slot. input(slot) - Asks for a user input and
14:11:29 <FortyTwo> and if C is your halting clock you just gave the opponent a choice when to halt it, (because the tokens are made 1 by 1)
14:11:54 <ais523> ah right, that was what I was wondering about (i.e. whether it gives a player a choice)
14:11:59 <FortyTwo> if they make a bunch of Cs first, then a D the halting clock is kept alive via coat of arms
14:12:29 <FortyTwo> but if they make the D first, then the halting clock shrinks and could die before the C is made
14:13:20 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109974&oldid=109969 * Cinnamony * (+71)
14:15:24 <ais523> "Goblin creatures get +1/+1. All Goblins are black and are Zombies in addition to their other creature types."
14:15:26 <ais523> hmm
14:15:33 <ais523> `card-by-name Dralnu's Crusade
14:15:35 <HackEso> Dralnu's Crusade \ 1BR \ Enchantment \ Goblin creatures get +1/+1. \ All Goblins are black and are Zombies in addition to their other creature types. \ PS-R
14:15:48 <ais523> ooh, we do have a cardbot in here (although its database is probably a bit out of date by now)
14:15:51 <FortyTwo> yeah if it didn't give a buff we'd be fine
14:16:20 <ais523> isn't the buff ability in the P/T layer, and the second ability in the type layer, though
14:16:34 <ais523> so all the creature types are determined first, and only then is the P/T layer calculated?
14:17:23 <ais523> this is one of those cases where I need to find the exact wording of the comprehensive rules
14:17:46 <FortyTwo> something something because dependency so when C loses its B type by making a D it loses the +1/+1
14:18:49 <FortyTwo> and we can have a bunch of B->B so it shrinks by more
14:19:48 <ais523> I think there isn't a problem because of rule 613.1: the "interaction of continuous effects" rules are used to calculate the characteristics of a specific object
14:20:05 <ais523> so say we have an A→B B→C C→D D→A loop
14:20:44 <ais523> then if we try to work out the characteristics of any specific C (for example), we discover it's also a D, thus also an A, thus also a B; then that it's black; then that it gets +4/+4
14:20:53 <ais523> and this is true regardless of which other objects exist
14:21:19 <ais523> 613.6. If an effect should be applied in different layers and/or sublayers, the parts of the effect each apply in their appropriate ones.
14:22:10 <ais523> so the "goblins are zombies" effect is applied separately from "goblins are black" and from "goblins get +1/+1", and all "goblins are zombies" effects get applied before all the color changes, then the P/T boosts are calculated at the end
14:22:17 <ais523> but I'm not a Magic judge so I might be misunderstanding this
14:22:34 <ais523> we used to have a couple of judges in here but I haven't seen them around recently
14:22:46 <FortyTwo> 613.8
14:22:56 <FortyTwo> is the dependency loop rule
14:23:10 <FortyTwo> it gets applied to effects, not creature by creature
14:23:25 <FortyTwo> which is what sinks us
14:23:49 <ais523> "613.8b An effect dependent on one or more other effects waits to apply until just after all of those effects have been applied. If multiple dependent effects would apply simultaneously in this way, they’re applied in timestamp order relative to each other. If several dependent effects form a dependency loop, then this rule is ignored and the effects in the dependency loop are applied in timestamp order."
14:24:09 <ais523> I think it is applied creature by creature: "613.1. The values of an object’s characteristics are determined by starting with the actual object. For a card, that means the values of the characteristics printed on that card. For a token or a copy of a spell or card, that means the values of the characteristics defined by the effect that created it. Then all applicable continuous effects are applied in a series of layers in the following order:"
14:24:48 <ais523> 613.8 specifically says "Within a layer or sublayer," which implies that it's inside the scope of 613.1
14:25:45 <FortyTwo> hmm, that's actually kind of a good point, but I'm not a judge either so IDK
14:25:45 <ais523> the wording does seem to be ambiguous, though…
14:26:01 <ais523> now that Reddit has collapsed, it's harder to find a judge in an emergency
14:26:54 <FortyTwo> are you in the rules guru mtg discord? https://discord.gg/NPqkSNhx
14:27:13 <ais523> I don't use Discord
14:27:22 <FortyTwo> fair enough
14:29:26 <ais523> this is the sort of thing that it might be possible to check MTGO/MTGA for but I don't have those either
14:29:44 <ais523> admittedly they get things wrong sometimes, but at least MTGO is normally pretty good at layers
14:30:23 <FortyTwo> MTGA doesnt have the cards needed for it, and I haven't touched MTGO in years
14:30:38 <ais523> fair enough
14:31:15 <ais523> I haven't played M:tG in ages, but I follow Legacy, which means that I'm more familiar with MTGO than any other interface for the game
14:31:33 <ais523> (Legacy the format, not the tournament organiser)
14:32:14 <FortyTwo> theres the #magicjudges-rules irc, but thats mostly for simpler questions
14:33:53 <FortyTwo> I mostly play draft and watch vintage kinda on the extremes of the power spectrum. standard has been awful for a long time
14:33:58 <ais523> much of my interest in this sort of direction recently has been trying to prove Netrunner TC – there have been a number of obstacles, including things like badly-written rules, but I was mostly able to change constructions to work around them
14:34:36 <ais523> I have been following draft of Standard-legal sets, too – I think it's also fairly awful (not as bad as constructed Standard), but it can be entertaining to watch the trainwreck from a distance
14:34:55 <ais523> although, the fault seems to primarily lie with the balancing teams rather than the design teams
14:35:48 <ais523> Vintage can be fun but suffers from a lack of variety
14:36:13 <FortyTwo> draft has been pretty good, though there have been a few sets that miss.
14:36:47 <esolangs> [[EasyFlakes]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=109975 * Cinnamony * (+876) Created page with "EasyFlakes is a derivative of [[Brainfuck|Branflakes]] that is easyish. ==Commands== right - Moves the pointer to the right. left - Moves the pointer to the left. up - Increment the memory cell at the pointer. down - Decrement the memory cell at the pointer. ou
14:37:24 <FortyTwo> I mainly like seeing the insanely powercrept new cards just barely shift the metagame one by one
14:38:04 <ais523> the primary issue seems to be color/archetype balance (in many of the recent sets) – there are lots of strategies available, but many of them require incredible luck with pulls to keep up with the more powerful strategies
14:39:44 <FortyTwo> thats kind of more up to reading the table and finding an open lane, but yeah it can be easier to get shafted than in a format like cube where the powerlevel is more flat and every card is intended to fit in many strategies
14:41:11 <ais523> I guess my primary complaint is that there are fewer open lanes available than there should be, because some strategies which were intended to be high-viability end up being low-viability and decrease the total number of lanes available, open or not
14:41:34 <FortyTwo> yeah red white equipment never actually works for example
14:43:03 <FortyTwo> to answer your sideboard question, 'card-by-name soul collector does a passable dranlu's crusade impersonation
14:43:23 <ais523> `card-by-name Soul Collector
14:43:25 <HackEso> Soul Collector \ 3BB \ Creature -- Vampire \ 3/4 \ Flying \ Whenever a creature dealt damage by Soul Collector this turn dies, return that card to the battlefield under your control. \ Morph {B}{B}{B} (You may cast this card face down as a 2/2 creature for {3}. Turn it face up any time for its morph cost.) \ SCG-R, TSP-S
14:43:29 <ais523> the bot only looks at lines that start with `
14:43:51 <ais523> also that looks like the wrong card?
14:43:52 <FortyTwo> assuming your maindeck has 6 dual typed creatures that dont share a type
14:44:49 <ais523> I was mostly looking at this from the point of view of creating Turing-equivalent gamestates in a competitive game of Magic
14:45:20 <ais523> my original plan was Omnitell, but it's shifted with the metagame and can no longer run enough wishes to make it work, also it doesn't draw its deck nowadays
14:46:06 <ais523> so my new plan is to use Ruby Storm, which can easily impulsive-draw its entire deck, wish for its entire sideboard, and make a few thousand treasure tokens
14:46:30 <ais523> but sideboard slots are pretty valuable there so the hard part is finding room for the construction
14:46:53 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: sorry about my connection).
14:47:07 -!- ais523 has joined.
14:48:40 <FortyTwo> Yeah the current min cards challenge is at like 20 cards to do computation
14:49:27 <ais523> it's probably easier when you don't have to worry about preventing infinites
14:49:39 <FortyTwo> but thats starting from nothing and trying to prevent infinites
14:49:51 <ais523> (although, there are no infinites in stock Ruby Storm, so it might be possible to make a competitive deck that can create busy beaver numbers but can't go infinite…)
14:51:21 <ais523> funnily enough, if Kaervek's Spite were red, it might actually be a viable finisher for Ruby Storm – a common kill there is to cast Fiery Confluence in "6 damage to each opponent" mode and copy it an additional three times
14:51:34 <FortyTwo> the highest noninfinie tournament winning standard deck was broken recently
14:51:55 <ais523> as in, someone found an infinite?
14:53:33 <FortyTwo> no the record was broken, esper legends uses ratadrabrik (when your legend dies make a 2/2 nonlegendary copy of it) and a legend with doubling season's token text
14:54:14 <FortyTwo> so playing the extra copies starts making x^^x 2/2 version
14:54:55 <ais523> ah, I see – presumably this is a competition to find the largest non-infinite in decks that have actually won tournaments?
14:55:00 <FortyTwo> its not a big number by our standards, but is big in terms of tournament winning decks
14:55:06 <ais523> right
14:57:17 <FortyTwo> so because you are fine allowing potential infinite setups, you can just setup the crusades so they dont form a loop, and use bishop of wings to keep players alive while arcbond pings everything
14:57:34 <FortyTwo> oh thats a user in this chat
14:57:48 <FortyTwo> who i didn't mean to ping lol sorry
14:58:55 <ais523> `card-by-name bishop of wings
14:58:56 <HackEso> No output.
14:59:00 <ais523> too new
14:59:33 <FortyTwo> when an angel dies make a spirit and when an angel etb gain 4
14:59:34 <ais523> ah, "Whenever an Angel enters the battlefield under your control, you gain 4 life." "Whenever an Angel you control dies, create a 1/1 white Spirit creature token with flying."
15:00:09 <ais523> I seem to remember there was some sort of trigger order requirement for all the "when X dies, create Y" triggers to be on opponents' permanents, in which case that would only keep one player alive?
15:00:21 -!- Sgeo has joined.
15:00:47 <FortyTwo> but you can set it up so you don't have that option once computation starts
15:00:50 <ais523> or, no, it's fine, you just make the death trigger create a creature type that isn't involved in the computation
15:01:08 <ais523> then you can have a bishop of wings where only the first aiblity is relevant
15:01:32 <FortyTwo> yeah you can have the option to kill yourself in the computation, but you dont want to lose
15:02:08 <ais523> actually this is an interesting improvement – you can use life totals, rather than creature counts, as a couple of halting waterclocks
15:02:17 <ais523> that way, you can have two halt states, you winning and opponent winning
15:03:32 <FortyTwo> well you can always inturrupt your half of the computation so you can't use your own life total like that
15:03:48 <esolangs> [[Pixilartil]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=109976 * Cinnamony * (+963) Created page with "Pixiliartil is a 100x100 esoteric programming language created in 2023. ==Commands== Remember to use the default color pallete. Black (color 1) - Terminate program Red (color 3) - Move pointer right Purple (color 5) - Move pointer left Blue (color 8) - Print out
15:04:52 <FortyTwo> and if you are using bishop of wings then the opponent is going to be gaining a lot of life whenever a clock trips
15:05:17 <ais523> so the main problem in preventing choices is the stacking order of two triggers: the arcbond trigger "whenever this creature is dealt damage" and the bishop of wings trigger "whenever an angel dies"
15:05:59 <ais523> both those triggers go onto the stack in the same state-based ability check, and if you can control the order you can screw up the computation
15:06:12 <ais523> so, the arcbond trigger has to be owned by the active player, and the bishop trigger by the opponent
15:06:30 <FortyTwo> yeah, so if you just have one that says when an angel dies make an angel and gain 4, you stay alive and if angels dont affect the computation the order doesnt affect the computation either
15:07:17 <ais523> actually, I think it might be a problem? if you consistently put the arcbond triggers on top, you can intentionally fail to heal yourself, which serves as a way to break the loop
15:07:47 <FortyTwo> yeah but you don't want to lose
15:07:57 <FortyTwo> so you never make that choice
15:09:00 <FortyTwo> so the question of "can you win the game from this state?" is BB hard
15:09:27 <ais523> right, but that's less interesting than "if I let all the triggers resolve, do I win the game?"
15:10:24 <ais523> you could just give the arcbonded creature lifelink, but that'd need an extra card
15:11:00 <FortyTwo> fair, then you need something like comeuppance to keep yourself alive (until end of turn if a source would deal damage to you, it instead deals that much to itself)
15:11:30 <FortyTwo> lifelink would gain the opponent life
15:11:40 <FortyTwo> because its their creature doing the damage
15:11:52 <FortyTwo> (they have the halting clock)
15:12:08 <FortyTwo> I guess thats not strictly needed in your construction though
15:12:22 <ais523> no, has to be your creature doing the damage – the construction only works because the arcbond triggers go beneath the token creation triggers
15:12:31 <ais523> so active player has to control arcbond, inactive player has to control the tokens
15:12:49 <FortyTwo> yeah arcbond is always ours no matter what creature it is on
15:12:56 <ais523> `card-by-name arcbond
15:12:57 <HackEso> Arcbond \ 2R \ Instant \ Choose target creature. Whenever that creature is dealt damage this turn, it deals that much damage to each other creature and each player. \ FRF-R
15:13:18 <ais523> oh right, it's your trigger even though their creature is dealing the damage
15:13:21 <ais523> that's confusing
15:13:23 <FortyTwo> yeah
15:13:50 <ais523> the hard part for me has been trying to work out how to give the opponent lots of token copies of, say, Bishop of Wings or Hungry Lynx
15:14:02 <ais523> there aren't many cards in Magic that give the opponent token copies of something you own
15:14:36 <ais523> I quite liked the Fractured Identity + Coax from the Blind Eternities setup, but it needs some way to infinitely recast Coax and Artificial Evolution
15:15:09 <ais523> (the reason I liked it is because the same cards can be used to wish for creatures, so it helps get the relevant cards out of your sideboard to start with)
15:15:42 <FortyTwo> well we mostly just use wrong turn to give them tokens we made already
15:18:16 <FortyTwo> 'card-by-name radiate
15:18:37 <ais523> backquote, not quote
15:18:39 <ais523> `card-by-name radiate
15:18:41 <HackEso> Radiate \ 3RR \ Instant \ Choose target instant or sorcery spell that targets only a single permanent or player. Copy that spell for each other permanent or player the spell could target. Each copy targets a different one of those permanents and players. \ TOR-R
15:18:52 <FortyTwo> ah
15:18:55 <ais523> `card-by-name artificial evolution
15:18:57 <HackEso> Artificial Evolution \ U \ Instant \ Change the text of target spell or permanent by replacing all instances of one creature type with another. The new creature type can't be Wall. (This effect lasts indefinitely.) \ ONS-R
15:19:18 <ais523> OK, so Radiate doesn't copy the choice of word to change, so you can choose it separately for each new target
15:20:29 <ais523> I guess there's two ways to go around designing this: an infinite version where you find some way to cast the spells taken from your sideboard infinitely, and a non-infinite version where each spell can only be cast once
15:20:29 <FortyTwo> so you still need two casts, but yeah thats probably easier than finding another infinite,
15:21:31 <ais523> Ruby Storm can't naturally go infinite but it's kind-of trivial to make it go infinite, I think a single Emrakul in the sideboard is enough (and has the benefit that Emrakul is actually a viable sideboard card in Legacy)
15:21:48 <ais523> although it might need to be Ulamog instead, to make it easier to kill
15:22:57 <FortyTwo> what kind of infinite is it? infinite mana? cards? storm? if its storm then thousand year storm easily covers all your needs in terms of setup
15:23:38 <ais523> so just before / as it reaches its finisher, Ruby Storm creates a loop of Inspired Tinkering + Bonus Round
15:24:04 <ais523> Inspired Tinkering is "Exile the top three cards of your library. Until the end of your next turn, you may play those cards." "Create three Treasure tokens."
15:24:08 <ais523> and Bonus Round may be in the bot?
15:24:12 <ais523> `card-by-name Bonus Round
15:24:13 <HackEso> No output.
15:24:16 <ais523> ah no
15:24:23 <ais523> Until end of turn, whenever a player casts an instant or sorcery spell, that player copies it and may choose new targets for the copy.
15:25:09 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Animeballs * New user account
15:25:15 <ais523> the deck can easily cast three Bonus Rounds, so Inspired Tinkering costs 4R and generates twelve treasure tokens + impulsive-draws twelve cards
15:25:18 <FortyTwo> so you already have infinite copies of any instant or sorcery
15:25:41 <ais523> it gives infinite storm, mana, draw, and permanents with any graveyard reshuffle effect
15:26:16 <FortyTwo> and infinite bonus rounds?
15:26:19 <ais523> the only reason the deck doesn't naturally go infinite is that it has no way to get cards out of its graveyard other than Past in Flames, which exiles
15:26:38 <ais523> so it's naturally limited to casting bonus round 65535 times
15:26:59 <ais523> err, 255 times
15:27:07 <ais523> accidentally allowed for the effect of Past in Flames twice
15:28:00 <ais523> (the bonus rounds copy each other, but they don't re-copy bonus round copies, so the first bonus round isn't copied, the second is copied once, the third is copied three times, and so on)
15:28:02 <FortyTwo> ok, so you don't have eough copies of any spell
15:28:34 <ais523> right, and the question is "do I add Ulamog or the like in order to be able to get infinite copies of my spells, or is it more fun to make a deck that can't go infinite?"
15:29:38 <ais523> Emrakul is better as a sideboard card but you have to find a way to kill it (which is possible, especially if you have Arcbond handy, but tends to cause a lot of collateral damage to the gamestate you're trying to set up)
15:31:39 <ais523> ooh! Past In Flames + Pull From Eternity + Fractured Identity works, I think
15:31:44 <FortyTwo> well once you have one of those and infinite bonus rounds the cards needed is something like artificial evolution, arcbond, bishop of wings, wrong turn, (some way to make copies of permanents), coat of arms, and a ping spell
15:32:09 <ais523> the Pull from Eternity doubles as a) recycling cards exiled to Past in Flames, giving you an infinite; b) recycling cards exiled to Fractured Identity
15:32:18 -!- FortyTwo has quit (Quit: Client closed).
15:33:09 <ais523> so, artificial evolution, arcbond, bishop of wings, coat of arms, pull from eternity, fractured identity, and the deck naturally has past in flames available, and grapeshot as a ping spell
15:33:20 -!- FortyTwo has joined.
15:33:39 <ais523> <ais523> so, artificial evolution, arcbond, bishop of wings, coat of arms, pull from eternity, fractured identity, and the deck naturally has past in flames available, and grapeshot as a ping spell
15:33:47 <ais523> or fiery confluence would also work to start things off
15:33:54 <ais523> five out-of-place cards isn't too bad
15:34:37 <ais523> huh, all this time I thought pull from eternity was green, but I just looked it up and it's white
15:34:45 <ais523> `card-by-name pull from eternity
15:34:46 <HackEso> Pull from Eternity \ W \ Instant \ Put target face-up exiled card into its owner's graveyard. \ TSP-U
15:34:53 <ais523> doesn't matter because we're casting it off treasures anyway
15:35:10 <FortyTwo> yeah fractured identity is super inefficient at making tokens but i guess you dont care about that
15:35:40 <ais523> actually this doesn't work because pull from eternity puts cards into the graveyard, which is fine for the spells but doesn't work for bishop of wings
15:36:06 <ais523> `card-by-name riftsweeper
15:36:07 <HackEso> Riftsweeper \ 1G \ Creature -- Elf Shaman \ 2/2 \ When Riftsweeper enters the battlefield, choose target face-up exiled card. Its owner shuffles it into their library. \ FUT-U, MMA-U
15:36:12 <FortyTwo> you reshuffle it with emrakul?
15:36:34 <ais523> right, emrakul works, but was hoping to get away with just five sideboard slots
15:37:07 <ais523> riftsweeper doesn't work on its own because it's a creature, so bonus round doesn't copy it
15:37:23 -!- esolangs has quit (Server closed connection).
15:38:02 -!- esolangs has joined.
15:38:02 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v esolangs.
15:39:06 <FortyTwo> `card-by-name mirror of fate
15:39:07 <HackEso> Mirror of Fate \ 5 \ Artifact \ {T}, Sacrifice Mirror of Fate: Choose up to seven face-up exiled cards you own. Exile all the cards from your library, then put the chosen cards on top of your library. \ M10-R
15:39:14 <FortyTwo> is close
15:39:27 -!- FortyTwo has quit (Quit: Client closed).
15:39:42 -!- FortyTwo has joined.
15:39:49 <ais523> I've been searching too – I also found that one, but it doesn't work because there's no way to get it back from the graveyard
15:39:50 <FortyTwo> oh im late g2g talk later thanks
15:39:55 <ais523> thank you too
15:39:57 -!- FortyTwo has quit (Client Quit).
15:43:34 -!- FortyTwo has joined.
15:43:57 <FortyTwo> oh one more thing consider a remand?
15:44:02 -!- FortyTwo has quit (Client Quit).
16:12:13 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Cinnamony * uploaded "[[File:Cat on Nuigurumiato.jpg]]"
16:14:56 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Cinnamony * uploaded "[[File:Truth Machine... I guess? on Nuigurumiato.jpg]]"
16:17:18 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Cinnamony * uploaded "[[File:Hello World on Nuigurumiato.jpg]]"
16:23:07 <esolangs> [[Nuigurumiato]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=109980 * Cinnamony * (+1659) Created page with "Nuigurumiato () is an esoteric programming language made out of plushies. ==Syntax== Archie (Pink axolotl) is the print function. The pink cheetahs are the memory slot. Pippin (Rainbow Pumpkin) is the input function. Chicken is the storer of the value of the memo
16:23:22 <esolangs> [[Nuigurumiato]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109981&oldid=109980 * Cinnamony * (+2) /* =Truth machine... I guess? in text */
16:24:34 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109982&oldid=109964 * Cinnamony * (+45) /* N */
16:34:01 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Cinnamony * uploaded "[[File:Nuigurumiato logo.jpg]]"
16:34:27 <esolangs> [[Nuigurumiato]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109984&oldid=109981 * Cinnamony * (+65)
16:34:31 -!- Guest21 has joined.
16:34:39 <esolangs> [[Nuigurumiato]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109985&oldid=109984 * Cinnamony * (+4)
16:34:53 <esolangs> [[Nuigurumiato]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109986&oldid=109985 * Cinnamony * (-4)
16:35:07 <esolangs> [[Nuigurumiato]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109987&oldid=109986 * Cinnamony * (+4)
16:35:19 <esolangs> [[Nuigurumiato]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109988&oldid=109987 * Cinnamony * (+1)
16:35:25 -!- Guest21 has quit (Client Quit).
16:36:01 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109989&oldid=109982 * Cinnamony * (+47) /* N */
16:37:31 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109990&oldid=109989 * Cinnamony * (+1) /* N */
16:38:26 <esolangs> [[Nuigurumiato]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109991&oldid=109988 * Cinnamony * (+136)
16:40:09 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Cinnamony * uploaded "[[File:Logo of Nuigurumiato except its the whole thing.jpg]]"
16:44:37 <esolangs> [[Nuigurumiato]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109993&oldid=109991 * Cinnamony * (+411)
16:59:01 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Cinnamony * uploaded "[[File:Better truth machine in Nuigurumiato.jpg]]"
17:00:21 <esolangs> [[Nuigurumiato]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109995&oldid=109993 * Cinnamony * (+491)
17:00:43 <esolangs> [[Nuigurumiato]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109996&oldid=109995 * Cinnamony * (+0)
17:01:16 <esolangs> [[Nuigurumiato]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=109997&oldid=109996 * Cinnamony * (-3)
17:21:16 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
17:47:53 <esolangs> [[Rhymolang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=109998 * Cinnamony * (+835) Created page with "Rhymolang is a joke esoteric programming language. You have to Rhyme in Rhymolang. ==Print== For 1 syllable prints, it is: (text) print have mints For 2 syllable prints, it is: (text) print have a mint For 3 syllable prints, it is: (text) print come have a mint
17:52:22 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Cinnamony * uploaded "[[File:Adder in Nuigurumiato.jpg]]"
17:52:48 <esolangs> [[Nuigurumiato]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110000&oldid=109997 * Cinnamony * (+182)
17:55:38 -!- __monty__ has quit (Quit: leaving).
18:00:29 -!- __monty__ has joined.
18:18:57 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Cinnamony * uploaded "[[File:Efghij hello world.jpg]]"
18:23:04 <esolangs> [[Efghij]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110002&oldid=109739 * Cinnamony * (+483)
18:23:22 <esolangs> [[Efghij]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110003&oldid=110002 * Cinnamony * (+1)
18:50:24 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Cinnamony * uploaded "[[File:Truth Machine I guess LBJ.jpg]]"
18:56:08 <esolangs> [[Lbj]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=110005 * Cinnamony * (+1099) Created page with "Lbj (Lego Block Jenga) is an esoterical language created by [[User:Cinnamony]]. ==Commands== * A red 2x2 is a print block, printing what value is on top of it. * A blue 2x2 is a user input block, representing whatever value the user puts in. * A green 2x2 is a forever loo
19:30:30 <esolangs> [[Bgt]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110006&oldid=109972 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+90) Categories
19:30:46 <esolangs> [[Efghij]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110007&oldid=110003 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+1) Fix formatting
19:32:42 <esolangs> [[QWERTYUIOP]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110008&oldid=109963 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+24) Category
19:34:23 <esolangs> [[Tjr min]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110009&oldid=109973 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+109) Categories
19:38:13 <esolangs> [[Nuigurumiato]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110010&oldid=110000 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+49) Categories
19:44:02 -!- b_jonas has joined.
19:45:06 <b_jonas> "<FortyTwo> theres the #magicjudges-rules irc, but thats mostly for simpler questions" => EFNet/#mtgrules may exist
19:48:53 <esolangs> [[Robotic smiley face]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110011&oldid=109952 * Cinnamony * (+42)
19:52:19 <esolangs> [[Lezy]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=110012 * Cinnamony * (+363) Created page with "{{Lowercasetitle}} lezy is a joke esolang created by [[User:Cinnamony]]. The only command is lezy, which prints out "lezy". ==Examples== lezy This prints out "lezy" lezy lezy This prints out "lezylezy" lezy lezylezy lezy lezy Whitespace does not matte
19:52:31 <esolangs> [[Lezy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110013&oldid=110012 * Cinnamony * (+0)
19:53:34 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110014&oldid=109974 * Cinnamony * (+24)
19:56:33 <esolangs> [[Baselang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=110015 * Cinnamony * (+261) Created page with "This esolang looks like it could get some changes, huh? ==Commands== print() - Prints something. No one knows what. input - Does nothing. x - No one knows. [[Category:Languages]][[Category:Joke Languages]][[Category:Baselang Family]][[Category:Unknown Year]]"
19:56:50 <esolangs> [[Baselang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110016&oldid=110015 * Cinnamony * (-1)
19:57:41 <esolangs> [[Baselang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110017&oldid=110016 * Cinnamony * (+0)
19:57:52 <esolangs> [[Baselang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110018&oldid=110017 * Cinnamony * (+1)
20:01:51 <esolangs> [[Baselang Broad]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=110019 * Cinnamony * (+222) Created page with "[[Baselang]] but broader. ==Commands== print() - Does something. No one knows what. input - Does something else. x - [[Category:Languages]][[Category:Joke languages]][[Category:Baselang family]][[Category:Unknown year]]"
20:04:45 <b_jonas> as for the card database in HackEso, that comes from Yawgatog which no longer has up to date card databases. I'd have to format one from Scrycall (or from the new new Gatherer) but I've lost interest in all the new stuff that M:tG does so I won't.
20:07:04 <esolangs> [[Category:Baselang family]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=110020 * Cinnamony * (+38) Created page with "A single language. How do you improve?"
20:12:13 -!- Cale has quit (Server closed connection).
20:12:36 -!- Cale has joined.
20:14:37 <esolangs> [[Vaguest]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=110021 * Cinnamony * (+173) Created page with "Vaguest. > - Go < - Go ! - Do 4 - 4 x - n + - Do <nowiki>== Program == World. !4+>><x+<>>><!4x+<>>>>+>< Pet. x++<!> [[Category:Languages]][[Category:Joke languages]]"
20:15:13 <esolangs> [[Vaguest]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110022&oldid=110021 * Cinnamony * (+77)
21:08:26 <esolangs> [[John H. Conway]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=110023 * Nathan * (+31) Redirected page to [[John Horton Conway]]
21:15:57 <esolangs> [[Category:Themed]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=110024 * Nathan * (+0) Created blank page
21:32:56 <esolangs> [[User:Cinnamony/Did you just yell pigs in branflakes until the lock opened]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=110025 * Cinnamony * (+279) Created page with "This is for all the people who have watched the Stakes Adventure Time Miniseries. +[>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ .-------.--.++++++++++++.----------
21:49:52 -!- bgs has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:50:09 -!- __monty__ has quit (Quit: leaving).
22:27:30 <esolangs> [[User talk:SubleqIsTheBestLeq]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=110026 * SubleqIsTheBestLeq * (+26) Created page with "S U B L E '''EEEEEEEE''' Q"
22:34:15 <esolangs> [[Braincinnamon]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=110027 * Cinnamony * (+654) Created page with "Braincinnamon is a [[Branflakes]] clone, but it's not that obvious. You use a certain amount of "cinnamons", which converts from decimal to base-9 (no 0), with {| class="wikitable" |+ Branflakes to base-8 |- ! Branflakes !! Base-8 |- | < || 1 |- | > || 2 |- | + |
22:34:34 <esolangs> [[Braincinnamon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110028&oldid=110027 * Cinnamony * (+0)
22:59:24 <esolangs> [[Minecode]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=110029 * Cinnamony * (+1967) Created page with "Minecode is an esoteric programming language where you "mine" and find various ores that do things. You also have a Miner's log, which has infinite pages, and infinte data can be stored on one page. ==Writing Types (Data Types)== You can write with: * A crayon (Rando
23:48:10 <esolangs> [[This esoteric programming language has one of the longest titles, and yet it only has one command, which is such a shame, but there is no way to undo it so we may as well stick with it]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=110030 * Cinnamony * (+342) Created page with "This esoteric programming language has one of the longest titles, and yet it only has one co
23:48:50 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110031&oldid=110014 * Cinnamony * (+191)
23:49:16 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110032&oldid=110031 * Cinnamony * (+30)
23:58:45 <esolangs> [[OCDMess]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=110033 * Cinnamony * (+557) Created page with "''If you are diagnosed with OCD, immediately leave this page.'' OCDMess is an esoteric language designed exactly to mess up people with OCD. ==Commands== wecanhearyourthuoghts;8y; - prints out the text between the 8 and y sunriseisat7am - asks for user input hhhhhhh
23:58:57 <esolangs> [[OCDMess]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110034&oldid=110033 * Cinnamony * (+0)
←2023-06-14 2023-06-15 2023-06-16→ ↑2023 ↑all