> 1688174293 661987 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esoasm14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110955&oldid=110952 5* 03Dadsdy 5* (+0) 10
> 1688175272 749216 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:SMG4: Mario Gets His PINGAS Stuck In The Door14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=110956 5* 03BoundedBeans 5* (+795) 10Created page with "This arrangement tests if the input is zero without using doors. <pre> 'V0;!8+P         > "Non-zero"R::::::::          >"Zero"R:::: </pre> It puts a downward arrow either at X=8 or X=9, depending on a value. The IP then mov
< 1688176184 86753 :Chasyxx!~IceChat95@2601:681:6600:29c0:195:7bac:bb69:31c7 JOIN #esolangs * :The Chat Cool People Use
> 1688176777 529137 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07SOAP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110957&oldid=110885 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (+616) 10Supplemented two examples concerning the use of the variable %.
> 1688176844 951094 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07SOAP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110958&oldid=110957 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (-2) 10Deleted erroneously introduced backslashes from the second variable example.
< 1688179968 729099 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.33.222 QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1688184032 199358 :leah2!~leah@2001:1410:200:eea::1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1688184822 957515 :leah2!~leah@vuxu.org JOIN #esolangs leah2 :Leah Neukirchen
< 1688187809 909717 :Chasyxx!~IceChat95@2601:681:6600:29c0:195:7bac:bb69:31c7 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1688193603 376771 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1688194608 634643 :m5zs7k!aquares@web10.mydevil.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1688194935 61266 :m5zs7k!aquares@web10.mydevil.net JOIN #esolangs m5zs7k :m5zs7k
> 1688197475 135685 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Neucomp14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=110959 5* 03Benett0222 5* (+1032) 10Created page with "Neucomp is short for Neumann stiled Computer  ==Examples for a Computer== ===Add 2 and 2===    Let 1 2   Let 2 2   ALU 1 2 + 3   Out 3   Outputs 4   Cmds  {| class="wikitable" !Intruction !Description |- | style="text-align:center"| <code>Let a b</code> |Let a in mem
< 1688197628 104532 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1688198168 678811 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1688198968 917210 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Neucomp14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110960&oldid=110959 5* 03Benett0222 5* (+390) 10
> 1688200410 547303 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Benett022214]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110961&oldid=110945 5* 03Benett0222 5* (+21) 10
< 1688203438 849364 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
< 1688203439 646556 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1688203604 92239 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 NICK :Lord_of_Life
> 1688203665 659644 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bundle14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110962&oldid=108836 5* 03Lanksy 5* (+12) 10corrections
< 1688204304 505470 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
> 1688206418 496678 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ptolomaea14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110963&oldid=110612 5* 03MinekPo1 5* (+126) 10/* Environment */ - I forgor to write how the value is initialized my bad
> 1688206606 865082 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ptolomaea14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110964&oldid=110963 5* 03MinekPo1 5* (+247) 10/* The Ant */ yeah forgor my bad
< 1688206704 518735 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.12.202 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
> 1688207026 77881 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ptolomaea14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110965&oldid=110964 5* 03MinekPo1 5* (+0) 10/* The Beetle */ formatting
> 1688207254 381058 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ptolomaea14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110966&oldid=110965 5* 03MinekPo1 5* (+100) 10/* The Beetle */ formatting, typo
> 1688207322 748390 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ptolomaea14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110967&oldid=110966 5* 03MinekPo1 5* (+0) 10/* The Beetle */ formatting, again
< 1688208443 983368 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.12.202 QUIT :Quit: quit
< 1688210622 653302 :Argorok!uid195487@id-195487.hampstead.irccloud.com QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1688212056 830607 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn JOIN #esolangs toonn :Unknown
> 1688214145 626785 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Neucomp14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110968&oldid=110960 5* 03Benett0222 5* (+283) 10
> 1688217452 659724 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Badcode14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110969&oldid=110839 5* 03D 5* (+105) 10
< 1688218071 547762 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1688219970 572196 :A_Dragon!A_D@libera/staff/dragon QUIT :Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1688220002 289617 :A_Dragon!A_D@libera/staff/dragon JOIN #esolangs ad :Roy Mustang, The Flame Alchemist
< 1688220572 505032 :A_Dragon!A_D@libera/staff/dragon QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1688220789 867558 :A_Dragon!A_D@libera/staff/dragon JOIN #esolangs ad :Roy Mustang, The Flame Alchemist
< 1688221445 972359 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1688222497 614522 :FreeFull!~freefull@46.205.213.148.nat.ftth.dynamic.t-mobile.pl JOIN #esolangs FreeFull :FreeFull
< 1688223738 612265 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
< 1688224588 911045 :SGautam!uid286066@id-286066.ilkley.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs SGautam :Siddharth Gautam
< 1688224919 261756 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`learn The password of the month is on fire.
< 1688224922 805770 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Relearned 'password': The password of the month is on fire.
< 1688225164 955921 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1688225930 935796 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1688226628 561557 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://github.com/kirjavascript/quine-howto just want to put this Quine webpage by Kirjava into the history somewhere
< 1688226656 175299 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1688227445 187088 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`python3 -c(lambda d,f,b:print(b+d+b+d+f))(chr(34),chr(41),"`python3 -c(lambda d,f,b:print(b+d+b+d+f))(chr(34),chr(41),")
< 1688227446 251447 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​`python3 -c(lambda d,f,b:print(b+d+b+d+f))(chr(34),chr(41),"`python3 -c(lambda d,f,b:print(b+d+b+d+f))(chr(34),chr(41),")
< 1688227530 953328 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1688228541 235806 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1688230545 788006 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07HGFTSNOA/Turing-Completeness proof14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=110970 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+7157) 10Make page
> 1688230548 185395 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07HGFTSNOA14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110971&oldid=110840 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+4331) 10Rewrite
< 1688232124 115404 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :> chr 41
< 1688232125 822666 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esolangs : ')'
< 1688232325 23907 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`python3 -c(lambda d,b:print(b+d+b+d+')'))(chr(34),"`python3 -c(lambda d,b:print(b+d+b+d+')'))(chr(34),")
< 1688232326 323716 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​`python3 -c(lambda d,b:print(b+d+b+d+')'))(chr(34),"`python3 -c(lambda d,b:print(b+d+b+d+')'))(chr(34),")
< 1688232534 429670 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1688232752 585144 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, that works too, but then you can't easily type it in a bash command line or a cmd command line because apostrophe or double quote needs to be escaped
< 1688232840 13192 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, you're already in trouble with the ()
< 1688232909 552767 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :no, you can quote the whole argument
< 1688232911 423276 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like 
< 1688232928 290900 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :sure
< 1688232941 13876 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :``` python3 -c'(lambda d,f,b:print(b+d+b+d+f))(chr(34),chr(41),"(lambda d,f,b:print(b+d+b+d+f))(chr(34),chr(41),")'
< 1688232942 320846 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​(lambda d,f,b:print(b+d+b+d+f))(chr(34),chr(41),"(lambda d,f,b:print(b+d+b+d+f))(chr(34),chr(41),")
< 1688232950 724326 :SGautam!uid286066@id-286066.ilkley.irccloud.com QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1688232975 309087 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and yes, that'll remove the escape hatch for smuggling in thayt ')'
< 1688232977 240749 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :admittedly it gets much longer if you want to reproduce the full sh command as the output
< 1688232977 520020 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :-y
< 1688233017 869832 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-151-216-176.range86-151.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs impomatic :john
< 1688233126 953492 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I was originally wondering if you can write a nice python quine that uses str.replace to replace some characters so you don't have to represent them by themselves, in the style of the sqlite quine SELECT replace(s,char(33),'''')||s||'''s);'FROM(SELECT'SELECT replace(s,char(33),!!!!)||s||!!!s);!FROM(SELECT!'s);
< 1688233173 360390 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-151-216-176.range86-151.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hi, does anyone have a copy of Esowar please? The links on the wiki page are dead and it hasn't been captured by the Wayback Machine :-( https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esowar
< 1688233273 183021 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-151-216-176.range86-151.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :Quite a few other Esolang implementations used to be there too.
< 1688233430 701119 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Funny, apparently I looked at this? (I have an edit in the history) I have no recollection or record of it though.
< 1688233474 10796 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I love this take on a spelling alphabet: https://notalwaysright.com/s-like-sesquipedalian/293451/
< 1688233504 329422 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1688233534 751366 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-151-216-176.range86-151.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :Filename would be esowar-master.zip (or tar.gz, or tar.bz2)
< 1688233587 816203 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah I looked (`locate -i esowar`), nothing.
< 1688233625 8653 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Which isn't out of the ordinary... I may have just browsed the source code online or deleted it all after I was done.
< 1688233627 73184 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I haven't heard of that Esowar thing
< 1688233770 983471 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
< 1688233802 101411 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :words that start with double consonants the first of which are silent, a peculiar feature of English that always seems weird to me because almost all pairs of consonants used in them are pronouncable, and indeed probably come from another language where they were pronounced. I have the list at https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:B_jonas#Silent_initial_consonants
< 1688233857 829607 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :impomatic: maybe I didn't even get that far: https://logs.esolangs.org/freenode-esoteric/2020-05-08.html#lZc ff.
< 1688233865 194912 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :are there any words that start dj- with a pronounced d? that said, it isn't that common a prefix
< 1688233867 913684 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that one mentions pterodactyl though, I should add that to the list if it's really pronounced with the p
< 1688233923 109581 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you mean like djinn?
< 1688234014 649319 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes
< 1688234028 447426 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :is that pronounced with the d? I think most people pronounce it without, although it's hard to tell
< 1688234070 343234 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :well the usual "j" already has a bit of a "d" doesn't it
< 1688234083 723791 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so it becomes[3~[3~[3~[3~[4~ tellgets hard to 
< 1688234098 48506 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also interesting is that no English words (apart from possibly obscure loanwords) start ng- even though the consonant ng exists in the language (and has its own mouth/tongue position for pronouncing it that isn't the same as either n's or g's)
< 1688234136 204136 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(isn't it wonderful what a lag spike does to editing in irssi when you hit return too soon)
< 1688234243 345746 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I'm not sure why, maybe it triggers the heuristics for pasting text?)
< 1688234458 199862 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: ng is not one consonant but two, the second being the ordinary g, the first is a nasal with the same velar position of articulation as g. given that, it's not too surprising that there are no words beginning it, because there are lots of consonant pairs that don't occur at the start of a word
< 1688234464 793509 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-151-216-176.range86-151.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :It looks like that website (code.forder.cc) belonged to Orby. Other esolangs on there included skiforth and trml.
< 1688234601 9741 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I mean there are lots of consonant pairs that occur after a vowel but not at the start of a word, like "nt" 
< 1688234654 979669 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: ng is generally pronounced with the tongue in retroflex position, which is very different from g – you get an 'n' sound as the tongue is held there and a 'g' sound as it moves away
< 1688234679 848110 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if you try pronouncing ng with the normal tongue positions for n and g then the g comes out ridiculously loud compared to the n
< 1688234691 701282 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :unless you leave a large gap in between
< 1688234709 295885 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :presumably that's why the different tongue position is used
< 1688235043 309427 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: maybe they're not pronounced with the same tongue movement, though I don't think I pronounce it retroflex. they're still in roughly the same position of articulation, and they follow the whole series of pairs where an n before another consonant often changes its place of articulation of the stop, where nb can be pronounced as mb, nf can be pronounced with a labiodental ɱ, and nɟ in hungarian 
< 1688235049 276261 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :is pronounced with palatal ɲ
< 1688235069 694223 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this happens much more in Hungarian admittedly, but English does it for ng at least, you'd rarely pronounce ng with a normal n
< 1688235247 495359 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I don't speak slavic languages that have like twenty different tongue positions for variants of the same consonant so I probably don't understand the full subtleties here
< 1688235266 12724 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I was in Wales a couple of weeks back, and couldn't pronounce any of the place names.
< 1688235297 236743 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :On the other hand, neither could the speech synthesis of the car's navigation system (I'm pretty sure), so maybe that's all right.
< 1688235324 965781 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :It made Betws-y-Coed into something pretty strange, and did Llanberis with just a regular 'l'.
< 1688235328 29862 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: wait, aren't you british? I thought people who live in britain have some experience in welsh place name
< 1688235338 911969 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I just live here, I'm Finnish by background.
< 1688235343 859463 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I see
< 1688235365 849125 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :whereas australians know how to pronounce place names that come from all sorts of aborigine languages
< 1688235387 293308 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :which I guess is more impressive because the aborigine languages are way more varied than the celtics they have in britain
< 1688235559 705713 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Apparently the Welsh word for "out" is "allan", so there were a lot of signs that said "ALLAN OUT" (parking lot exits in particular), which was always amusing, because I've got a coworker named Allan. "Look, they really hate him here."
< 1688235597 622151 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I thought those would say "EXIT" instead of "OUT"
< 1688235645 9177 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :There were a few "ALLAN EXIT"s as well. But usually here you've got "OUT" and "IN".
< 1688235667 808636 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :do you see "OUT" in England as well?
< 1688235713 949290 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yes. At least when it's like a front driveway kind of a thing rather than a multi-story parking structure.
< 1688235786 384940 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :do you have "PULL H5U9" signs on doors?
< 1688235800 748804 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :It says "OUT" at least on the street side to let you know that you're not supposed to drive in that way. It might say "EXIT" inside. I don't drive much.
< 1688235831 503709 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, we just use the round red one-way sign for that
< 1688235868 75492 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :. o O ( no-way sigh )
< 1688235873 340178 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :*sign
< 1688235898 397375 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I know the UK has traffic signs that are different from the Eu ones, and somewhat similar to the US ones though not *that* extreme
< 1688235904 720445 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :including some yellow diamond signs
< 1688235916 568069 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :entrance/exit is more common in england IME, but in/out is possible
< 1688235939 769338 :impomatic!~impomatic@host86-151-216-176.range86-151.btcentralplus.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION is now grepping word lists for words starting with a double consonant!

< 1688235945 648283 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also I don't think we have yellow diamond road signs in England? there are white diamond signs for trams, and orange diamond signs which are political advertising for the Liberal Democrats
< 1688235952 466044 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :The road markings I think might usually read "NO ENTRY" instead. That's a bit inconsistent I guess.
< 1688235991 455420 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you do see "NO EXIT" on the inside of buildings sometimes, for symmetry
< 1688235992 306742 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't think we have "EXIT" often to try to tell you you're going the wrong way
< 1688235995 694832 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: the thing is, when you see one of those round red signs, how doi you know that there isn't another onme of those at the other end of the street, just to mess with people?
< 1688236002 208415 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"EXIT" is for when you're goint the right way
< 1688236021 329774 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I don't know if you're still in Birmingham, but we stopped there as well on the way to Wales and back (to rent a car without having to drive all the way from London).
< 1688236040 699543 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: because if it's no entry both ways then it's the round white sign with red border instead. 
< 1688236051 811178 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also, Welsh is confusing as someone who's used to English because the correspondence between letters and sounds is very different, even though it's written in ASCII
< 1688236068 693633 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: I'm splitting my time between Birmingham and Norfolk atm, and am currently in Norfolk
< 1688236091 551269 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: only if you take the rules around traffic signs as axiomatic
< 1688236092 858915 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :because I don't currently have a job, so no need to stay in one place
< 1688236117 822838 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: we have lots of important invariants in traffic signs like this, the most important is that if you're going straight and you had priority in the previous crossing then either you'll still have priority in the next crossing or there'll be a sign indicating otherwise, so you don't need to constantly look for the triangle or octagon signs in the roads crossing you at each crossing when you're on a 
< 1688236123 899661 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :priority road
< 1688236141 923217 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :There's a Black Sabbath (the band) themed bench in Birmingham which keeps saying "Black Sabbarh" in Google Maps despite attempts to submit a crowd-sourced edit to fix it.
< 1688236142 782181 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: apparently they've started using the no-entry sign even for roads that aren't one-way the other way, because drivers are apparently more likely to obey it than they are to obey the "no vehicles" or "no motor vehicles" signs
< 1688236162 57014 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the latter two are kind-of obscure, so maybe some drivers don't know what they mean
< 1688236219 520333 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: the UK approach is generally that, if you don't have priority, to have a downward-pointing triangle sign and two dashed lines across the road (in very minor roads sometimes the triangle is omitted)
< 1688236233 19708 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sometimes a backwards-pointing triangle is painted onto the road too, to make it even clearer
< 1688236236 890886 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :to be clear, if you have priority, that's not necessarily indicated by a sign on your road, instead it can be indicated by just triangle or octagon yield signs in the crossing roads that yield to you, and those signs have unique shapes so you can identify them from the back, and they're put close to the crossing, and if there's a stack of signs there then it's on the top
< 1688236264 461176 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :since this is hard and if you're on a priority road you don't want to slow down at every crossing to see the backs of signs, we have this invariant
< 1688236267 486093 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but yes, the principle of using downward-pointing triangle for give way and octagon for stop was invented so that you can recognise the signs from behind
< 1688236279 880330 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :UK seems to have this thing where there's pretty few explicit speed limit signage, rather just relying on the "default" limits of 30/60/70 mph.
< 1688236287 944071 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the UK markings make it fairly clear when you have priority because you can see the double dashed white lines across the side roads
< 1688236296 156043 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: it saves money on signs
< 1688236301 844408 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :which is a serious expense, sometimes
< 1688236304 473410 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :when you no longer have priority, either you get a triangular yield or octagonal stop sign, or a black cross in white triangle with red border sign to indicate a yield to right crossing
< 1688236318 966765 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there is nearly always a sign at the change, and you also get reminders whenever the speed doesn't match the default
< 1688236348 267092 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: the road lines sometimes help, but they're often not there in small streets, and they can be covered by snow
< 1688236373 266077 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: when I was in Hungary, the main road-related thing that surprised me is how motorway junctions worked – they gradually reduced the speed limit for the outside lane on the approach to the junction and gradually sped it up after the junction, and the junction itself was just a direct turn on or off the motorway
< 1688236428 343611 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah, snow explains it – here, small roads will have the lines painted on them even if there are no markings elsewhere, because they're for the benefit for the large roads; and if there is enough snow to cover the markings than everyone will be driving so slowly that the priority is mostly irrelevant
< 1688236436 67226 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the triangle is never omitted when there are road lines in Hungary. both can be omitted when it's clear that you're entering a public road from a fenced private property, or from an unpaved road form a paved road
< 1688236463 959376 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh yes, the double dashed lines get omitted for that sort of minor access here, too
< 1688236480 578475 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there are other cases when it's only the road lines that indicate something, but not for yield
< 1688236512 396323 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but normally those accesses would go directly across the (sidewalk (en_US) / pavement (en_GB)) if there is one, which is another way of marking the lack of priority
< 1688236536 100904 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :for zebra crossing the sign is always there and the road marking is usually there but not necessarily, and it's often missing for some time after the road is repaved
< 1688236573 88821 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but solid lane lines to mean no overtaking are very often not indicated by signs on slow roads, only on faster roads
< 1688236598 552506 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :here, official zebra crossing have a flashing yellow light on a tall pole to indicate that they're zebra crossings, but there are also quite a few unofficial zebra crossings where someone just painted stripes on the road
< 1688236601 618291 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :middle lines are omitted on lots of roads in Hungary
< 1688236653 894926 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :here too
< 1688236679 641244 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :actually, there was a campaign to erase the middle lines in villages, in order to encourage drivers to slow down and not run over the pedestrians
< 1688236682 369348 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm not sure whether it worked
< 1688236687 554686 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1688236711 599645 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also my brother pointed out that speed limit signs work differently in Sweden vs Hungary: in Hungary the speed limit has effect until the next crossing (or the next sign that overrides it), whereas in Sweden the speed limit continues its effect on a straight road sequence so you might not know what the speed limit is if you're turning into it from a crossing road
< 1688236776 808613 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hungary also occasionally has signs surrounding an area to limit its speed to 30, where all entrances have the sign. this used to be less common than the every crossing signs, but I think it's getting more and more common
< 1688236822 429560 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in the UK the speed limits are defined legislatively, every road or group of related roads has its own minor law to say what the speed limit should be
< 1688236832 526467 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and then the speed limit signs are put up to tell people what the rules for that road are
< 1688236846 726101 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but the signs don't normally actually determine the limits, they just inform of them
< 1688236872 975976 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but, there's supposed to be a sign whenever the limit changes, and reminder signs if you go a long time at a non-default limit
< 1688236974 55683 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: as for no vehicles signs, if drivers disobey it and they want them enforced, they just put up physical barriers. these can range from just slightly inconvenient to enter to basically impossible to cross.
< 1688237064 115292 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1688237168 68619 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :we sometimes have no-vehicles-with-exceptions signs that make putting up physical barriers awkward
< 1688237177 887930 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"no vehicles apart from buses on this one bus route", for example
< 1688237201 215306 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(this is signed as "no vehicles except local buses" and then they work with the local bus companies to make sure that only buses that are supposed to go that way can)
< 1688237258 942428 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also on non-small roads they can use white arrow on blue circle sign or arrow road markings or arrow-shaped green light in a traffic sign (the third one has extra semantics) to compliment either a wrong way or no entry road
< 1688237354 797573 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm. there aren't many no vehicles other than buses roads here, though there's one notable one close to here in Népliget, which has really bad foundation so the paving kept getting destroyed by the buses, but it was impossible to fix the road because it had constant traffic of metro replacement buses
< 1688237395 210120 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there are bus lanes, and the occasional paved tram tracks with buses allowed but other vehicles not
< 1688237583 713652 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :as for default speed limits, they're used a lot in Hungary. a lot of roads in cities just don't need any traffic signs or markings, the defaults work. 
> 1688237775 51922 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ptolomaea14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=110972&oldid=110967 5* 03MinekPo1 5* (+112) 10added extern. link, updated categories
< 1688237796 712940 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1688237925 422157 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :as for motorway junctions, yes, the exit or entry lane is sometimes very short. the exit poses a problem mostly when there's a queue waiting for it. using short entries and speeding up quickly while joining the traffic of a fast road is one of the things I found very hard when learning to drive.
< 1688238027 285311 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :here, most motorway junctions have speed-up and slow-down lanes which are separate from the motorway itself
< 1688238036 598886 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :between the motorway and the road it connects to
< 1688238056 445601 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :all of them are supposed to be like that, although there's one infamous junction on the M50 which is an exception
< 1688238086 561288 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :a separate doesn't help much because you don't easily see the lane into which you have to enter to know when you don't collide with the vehicles already there
< 1688238130 742385 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 QUIT :Quit: sorry about my connection
< 1688238148 941416 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
< 1688238168 954781 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah, here it's set up so that you can see the lane you're merging into for quite some distance, then are given some more distance where you can drive alongside it in order to find a gap
< 1688238205 691751 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also it's quite common for drivers to move away from the outside lane near junctions, in order to make it easier for approaching drivers to merge in
< 1688238255 244255 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, that's also why you have to see
< 1688238269 904809 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it usually only happens for long vehicles entering
< 1688238627 85151 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think there were some relatively short merge lanes on my trip. But at least they had some.
< 1688238667 970849 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Had to drive through 11 roundabouts on the A5 when circling around Shrewsbury, which felt a little excessive.
< 1688238675 422065 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the basic issue is that we have lots of rules intended to make things as safe as possible, but often they have unrealistic requirements and have to be ignored as a consequence
< 1688238707 607187 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also, people use roundabouts as the default for everything here, whether or not they're the best option; I think they're easier to get approved or something
< 1688238736 922386 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but roads like the A5, which used to be the most important road going in that direction and nowadays have been bypassed, tend to end up full of roundabouts
< 1688238760 505589 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Some of my colleagues who've gone through UK driver license education & tests (I'm just using my EU license, which is still good without a time limit) said they were told off for using the indicator lights when turning when there was a separate lane for turning, because it apparently just confuses people when you use the indicator lights while doing the only thing you are allowed to do.
< 1688238771 626939 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Which is a little weird; back home you'd just always indicate when turning.
< 1688238802 409238 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :my issue with indicator lights is that there are only really three things you can indicate (left, right, or neither) and yet there are often a lot more than three options for what you might want to do
< 1688238862 994149 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or, well, you can flash both but the intended meaning of that is along the lines of "I am unable to move / control my vehicle" and deviating too far from that would be dangerous
< 1688238887 127767 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(it's also sometimes repurposed as "watch out" when used by a vehicle that obviously isn't in distress – I'm not sure whether that's an approved use of the signal or not)
< 1688238976 405037 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :aiui roundabouts are safe and fast, but they have lots of drawbacks. they need more space that we don't have in towns between buildings, they are more expensive to build than just a plain road crossing, and we culturally look down on them because they are American, as Americans are so bad at driving that they can't use normal yield right crossings and they have to use low speed limits and expensive cars 
< 1688238982 454151 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :to compensate for their bad driving
< 1688238999 723674 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :plus they're just new, there used to be much fewer of them when I was young
< 1688239032 745508 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also they usually have vegetation in the middle so we can shake our walking stick at them and say "get out of my lawn you new-fangled crossings"
< 1688239081 258946 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :another weird thing is that Sweden often has zebras right at the entrances/exits of roundabouts, which never happens here
< 1688239199 27449 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :At least in Finnish we have separate words for those mini-"roundabouts" that don't have a large central island and definitely not multiple lanes and that you see in more built areas ("kiertoliittymä", lit. something like circular junction), and for proper larger roundabouts ("liikenneympyrä", lit. traffic circle).
< 1688239214 727105 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the former in English is "mini-roundabout"
< 1688239226 454729 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Well, that makes sense.
< 1688239283 169130 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also "gyratory" for really big roundabout-like things where the roundabout acts more like a road of its own that just happens to be shaped like a circle
< 1688239296 962189 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and all the exits act like their own independent junctions
< 1688239307 167449 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
< 1688239337 483061 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Right, that's a funny word. There's a Wandsworth gyratory nearby that they've been trying to get redesigned for ages, but it just keeps getting delayed with the local council blaming Transport for London for it.
< 1688239355 794415 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I get the impression it's about money.
< 1688239407 600764 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think I already mentioned that Sweden was hard to navigate as a pedestrian first because the cars stop to let you pass very often whenever you're even facing the road. in Hungary, cars don't do that, most of them react only when you've already stepped in their way and you have priority, or if they think they can't intimidate you to stop anymore if you don't have priority. public transport buses stop 
< 1688239409 608566 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh, they were having some sort of a convoy/demonstration about the planned expansion of the London ULEZ (Ultra Low Emission Zone), lots of cars with beeping horns and posters hung up on the sides.
< 1688239413 674008 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :earlier, though still not as early as the cars in Sweden; and student drivers stop even earlier. this is because the bus driver or the instructor rightly fears that they can lose their job if they get into an accident that's not clearly not their fault, and the instructor fears the same and that they can lose their job if they tolerate their cars doing rule violations.
< 1688239479 184379 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think gyratory is basically just the french word, but of course English has every non-common french word
< 1688239479 714423 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Someone had a proper conspiracy nut car with "wake up, sheeple" style placards all over it, and a mention of a website that sounded entirely ULEZ-unrelated (truthbombs.me, I think).
< 1688239531 113862 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :But the gist of it was that "they" are saying ULEZ is about pollution while in reality it's a dastardly plan to instead do something else (this part was a little unclear).
< 1688239566 941816 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1688239584 165325 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Looking at the website, it's something about how Bill Gates and George Soros are controlling everyone by AI surveillance and "Mass Psychosis And Infiltration".
< 1688239585 576346 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"sheeple" always reminds me of xkcd these days. https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Category:Sheeple
< 1688239621 551555 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Birmingham had to set up an LEZ recently because the air in the centre of the city wasn't within the limits that were legally considered breathable (although it wasn't too far off IIRC)
< 1688239639 393002 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so they put charges on the most polluting vehicles to discourage them from coming in
< 1688239687 290494 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah, we were a little confused about whether that'll affect our car rental plans, because apparently it's the rental company's responsibility for the first day but not for subsequent days; the rental place was literally *just* inside the zone, if they had put the exit on the other side of their lot it'd have been outside.
< 1688239708 806216 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Of course it turns out to have been a non-issue, because rental cars are of course new enough to not fall under the rules.)
< 1688239734 234419 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :<b_jonas> I think I already mentioned that Sweden was hard to navigate as a pedestrian first because the cars stop to let you pass very often whenever you're even facing the road. ← there can be some danger in behaviour like that, pedestrians sometimes assume that if a car has stopped for them it's safe to cross, but maybe there are other cars which aren't stopped for them
< 1688239758 16764 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, but that danger comes up in Hungary more
< 1688239759 730938 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I always double-check even if a car stops for me, which generally causes some amount of awkwardness for everyone and slows everyone down
< 1688239794 155347 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so I prefer cars not to stop unless there's a long continuous stream of traffic where I'd need someone to stop to be able to cross, it is generally much easier and safer for me to pass behind a car than in front
< 1688239811 53558 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hungary can have the other drivers angry and going around and honking when the car stops for a pedestrian
< 1688239856 871433 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :We call the blinky lights in the (relatively rare) UK zebra crossings "magic lanterns" because they make *everyone* stop.
< 1688239866 103721 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: right, and that's easy enough to signal in Hungary, but in Sweden you basically have to face away from the crossing to make the cars not stop. it's weird when you aren't used to it.
< 1688239887 124232 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Back home you have a zebra crossing on literally every single corner of a block in town, and people are less inclined to stop.)
< 1688239921 237319 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: wait, traffic lights can make everyone stops? people (both drivers and pedestrians) disobey them too much in Hungary for that to happen
< 1688239922 204756 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think you legally have to stop at a zebra crossing in the UK, if someone's attempting to cross – I can't remember what precisely counts as an attempt, but in practice people do it if someone is obvously waiting
< 1688239929 110113 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: They're not traffic lights.
< 1688239945 663181 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :They're blinking amber lights that are put up to mark zebra crossings.
< 1688239966 146511 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :they are called Bolisha beacons (IIRC on the spelling, I've mostly heard rather than read the word)
< 1688239980 241595 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :after the person who invented them, I think? less sure on taht
< 1688240047 848737 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :There's also couple of other animal crossings; the pelican (pedestrian traffic lights with buttons), puffin (same but more modern), toucan (pedestrians & cyclists) and pegasus (involves horses) crossings.
< 1688240056 709551 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: yeah, blinky warnings for zebras. those especially barely have an effect here, so they're only used in like long country roads apparently far from buildings where the driver might otherwise miss that there's a zebra at all
< 1688240109 265419 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"pelican" was originally a mispronunciation of an acronym "PeLiCon" for "pedestrian light controlled", then all the other variants got named after birds for consistency
< 1688240138 652257 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :There's blinky lights on almost all zebra crossings (at least in London), but to balance it out there's a lot less of them overall (because if it's small residential roads, there's usually no zebra crossing, and if it's bigger roads they've got lights).
< 1688240149 224283 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: here, in that situation, we'd have warning signs (there's a sign that means "zebra crossing ahead", which comes with a distance)
< 1688240149 818192 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Not sure if a pegasus qualifies as a bird, but maybe.
< 1688240165 385189 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :A flying thing, anyway.
< 1688240177 3256 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: well the name seems to have been an attempt to name it after a bird that was related to horses, but it may not have succeeded
< 1688240227 665399 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :my experience in central London is that what's technically a crossing is mostly irrelevant – the roads tend to alternate between a bunch of cars that are tightly bunched, and the road being emtpy
< 1688240233 594139 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :because of all the traffic-light-controlled junctions
< 1688240241 122938 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so opportunities to cross are pretty common
< 1688240254 285812 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I assume the situation is less extreme further out
< 1688240269 872968 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Asked a nearby LLM for a bird species with a horse-themed name. The response: "No, there is no bird species whose name is directly related to horses. However, there is a bird species called the Przewalski's horse, which is named after the Russian explorer Nikolay Przhevalsky. The Przewalski's horse is not actually a bird, but a type of wild horse that is native to Central Asia."
< 1688240296 634332 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :is that a self-contradictory answer?
< 1688240296 835563 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there's a very dangerous combination close to where I used to live. a crossing with traffic signs that usually just switch in the simplest two-stage pattern where in one stage the NW and SE entrances can pass then in the other stage the SW and NE entrances can pass; but occasionally a tram has to back into the tram garage next to it, in which case it stops everyone but the SE entrance and the NE zebra 
< 1688240302 736160 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :for a long time, while the tram moves very slowly, and at that point both cars from all four entrances try to drive and pedestrians on all four zebras try to drive. 
< 1688240345 273295 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :here there are a surprising number of crossings where right turns (equivalent of left turns in most countries, we drive on the left) are only possible *as* the lights change phase, because they aren't possible during any of the actual phases
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< 1688240371 456384 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and the same time period, during the change, is the only time at which you can cross the road as a pedestrian
< 1688240389 39712 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I used to use one of those pretty much every workday
< 1688240408 263740 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :to be clear the tram backs up from the SW entrance turning its back to the SE road, then enters forward N on the NW side of the SW road
< 1688240416 330840 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's kind-of surprising how such a high proportion of drivers get it right
< 1688240467 874967 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh, that's probably the biggest traffic difference between London and Helsinki: here (for most of the crossings) traffic lights for pedestrians turn green only after *all* the cars have red lights. In Finland, pedestrians can cross parallel to the direction that cars have green lights, and drivers who are turning are supposed to just watch out for pedestrians.
< 1688240482 124228 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :So the waits for pedestrians are a lot longer.
< 1688240492 988168 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Not that people actually wait for them.
< 1688240506 133041 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :something like that with everyone disobeying happens in many other crossings that have a three-cycle pattern of traffic lights, but there it's worse because there are no vehicles turning but the lone very slowly moving tram, and because most of the time it's just the two-cycle
< 1688240510 12697 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah, so Finland follows the rule that's used in Canada (and presumably the US)
< 1688240528 157384 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that took me a lot of getting used to when I was in Canada
< 1688240540 504261 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and there are more dangerous turning crossings, including one where I go to work now because the buildings and an overpass block the views
< 1688240553 602319 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so people don't realize how quickly the turning cars are entering the crossing
< 1688240592 709190 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: Hungary has very few crossings where the traffic lights have a pedestrian-only cycle
< 1688240610 805424 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the lights are either two-cycle, or three-cycle but the third is for left turns, not for pedestrians
< 1688240638 392588 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, left turn and the opposing right turn
< 1688240646 496869 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or sometimes variants on that
< 1688240654 86345 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :pedestrian-only cycles have been gradually dying out in the UK, I think
< 1688240676 212059 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :we still use them when pedestrians have to cross the whole road at once, but normally junctions are adapted to have a waiting area in the middle
< 1688240681 626987 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there's also three-cycle where in one cycle cars go from S to all three ways, then from N to all three ways, then from W and from E, but this is less common
< 1688240710 200502 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :then, pedestrians get to cross the junction in small increments, whenever all the traffic lights are red for the small part of the junction they're crossing
< 1688240731 624427 :ais523!~ais523@31.94.29.223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it is faster for the vehicles; I'm not sure whether it's faster or slower for the pedestrians, it probably depends on how often the pedestrian cycles would have been
< 1688240767 65464 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess there's the (minor?) benefit that you can cross diagonally when the lights are green only for pedestrians. There's even a small handful of crossings that have diagonal crossings explicitly marked; went through one of them today.
< 1688240779 663583 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :we do have pedestrian crossing broken to two or three parts in some places
< 1688240893 913069 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.66 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't think I've seen diagonal crossings marked in Hungary, but I think I've seen a few abroad
< 1688241401 210060 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :The one I crossed today was https://goo.gl/maps/fCYgZgNLoa2hWJTJ8 but there's really very few of them around.
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