< 1691628101 740014 :razetime!~quassel@117.254.36.178 JOIN #esolangs * :razetime > 1691628147 228762 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Kotnen 5* 10New user account > 1691628353 519811 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113363&oldid=113296 5* 03Kotnen 5* (+197) 10i (rax) introduced myself < 1691628979 185930 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space QUIT :Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere. < 1691629013 946441 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space JOIN #esolangs SoniEx2 :Genders: Autgender, 💜🖤💚; Soni L. < 1691629034 458754 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space QUIT :Client Quit < 1691629073 938410 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space JOIN #esolangs SoniEx2 :Genders: Autgender, 💜🖤💚; Soni L. < 1691630441 57732 :razetime!~quassel@117.254.36.178 QUIT :Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere. < 1691632294 283843 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in < 1691632323 82952 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron < 1691635020 946005 :SGautam!uid286066@id-286066.ilkley.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs SGautam :Siddharth Gautam < 1691635155 567224 :FreeFull!~freefull@46.205.213.202.nat.ftth.dynamic.t-mobile.pl QUIT : < 1691635186 847095 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1691635264 707907 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron < 1691635614 743150 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1691635856 196630 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :I found a page where ESR calls Amiga cooperative, even though it's usually called pre-emptive. Is that ESR just using Linus Torvalds's argument or is he just wrong? < 1691635897 314447 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/taouu/html/ch02s05.html < 1691635959 756939 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron < 1691638300 843959 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1691638868 773971 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron < 1691639786 243229 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1691640203 993288 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron < 1691640454 990910 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1691640836 260679 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron < 1691641840 367383 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I notice in the picture, it says: "Red-Copy, Yel-Copy/Rename, Blue-Delete". Are there colours of mouse buttons? < 1691642138 949284 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :And, I think the device on the left is used for chorded input (perhaps similar to the Baudot code, although maybe it uses a different code), and not a touch tablet. (Actually I think I read somewhere that is what it is, but I do not remember the details) > 1691642199 697559 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07StupidStackLanguage14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113364&oldid=82888 5* 03Lebster 5* (-4) 10/* Hello World */ > 1691642233 144229 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages (N-Z)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113365&oldid=112939 5* 03Lebster 5* (-4) 10/* StupidStackLanguage */ < 1691643025 101840 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1691643456 514377 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron > 1691643515 783244 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07StupidStackLanguage14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113366&oldid=113364 5* 03Lebster 5* (-71) 10Remove C++ interpreter (it was missing some instructions and a new version will be created soon) < 1691644481 418267 :bgs!~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net JOIN #esolangs bgs :bgs < 1691648786 730899 :SGautam!uid286066@id-286066.ilkley.irccloud.com QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1691649335 177869 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1691649351 925758 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse < 1691649581 691570 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User > 1691651518 36243 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Psychairefatback (Archive)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113367&oldid=68846 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+24) 10Category < 1691652616 130490 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1691655172 255781 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1691657158 106839 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1691658180 455443 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron < 1691661030 597960 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1691661062 640278 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord > 1691663567 272204 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages (N-Z)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113368&oldid=113365 5* 03None1 5* (+61) 10/* Qugord */ QuineFuck > 1691663706 991341 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BFFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113369&oldid=113362 5* 03None1 5* (+5) 10It is WIP, but still quite powerfull > 1691663813 823194 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BFFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113370&oldid=113369 5* 03None1 5* (+28) 10Tell that collaborators are welcomed > 1691663929 559166 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BFFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113371&oldid=113370 5* 03None1 5* (+36) 10/* How it works */ < 1691663977 16122 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.29.147 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds > 1691664106 152873 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113372&oldid=113332 5* 03None1 5* (+82) 10 > 1691664266 957353 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113373&oldid=113292 5* 03None1 5* (+16) 10/* Q */ > 1691668590 281893 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BFFuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113374&oldid=113371 5* 03None1 5* (+932) 10/* Examples */ Added Finite Fibonacci sequence > 1691668606 771194 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BFFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113375&oldid=113374 5* 03None1 5* (+0) 10/* Fibonacci sequence */ > 1691668748 979983 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BFFuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113376&oldid=113375 5* 03None1 5* (+259) 10/* How it works */ > 1691668994 355330 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113377&oldid=113372 5* 03None1 5* (+178) 10A refactor of my user page because it is too messy > 1691669008 519782 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113378&oldid=113377 5* 03None1 5* (+30) 10/* My GitHub Profile */ > 1691669053 332922 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113379&oldid=113378 5* 03None1 5* (+27) 10/* My Esolangs */ > 1691669121 299963 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07LstackG14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113380&oldid=111263 5* 03None1 5* (+0) 10/* Offline Interpreters */ ambiguity > 1691669483 541580 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113381&oldid=113379 5* 03None1 5* (+424) 10Added a part that introduces what I like and hate > 1691669602 850747 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113382&oldid=113381 5* 03None1 5* (+28) 10/* What I like */ > 1691669609 931658 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113383&oldid=113382 5* 03None1 5* (+1) 10/* What I like */ > 1691669645 3695 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113384&oldid=113383 5* 03None1 5* (+24) 10/* What I dislike */ > 1691669660 293132 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113385&oldid=113384 5* 03None1 5* (-19) 10/* BFFuck (WIP) */ > 1691670111 701044 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainfuck algorithms14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113386&oldid=113353 5* 03None1 5* (+263) 10/* while (x) { code } */ Added brainfuck do-while loop > 1691671425 919041 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BFFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113387&oldid=113376 5* 03None1 5* (+3260) 10/* External Resources */ Added online interpreter > 1691671531 385463 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BFFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113388&oldid=113387 5* 03None1 5* (-30) 10/* External Resources */ Fixed > 1691671546 938578 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BFFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113389&oldid=113388 5* 03None1 5* (+2) 10/* External Resources */ > 1691671564 693487 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BFFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113390&oldid=113389 5* 03None1 5* (+16) 10/* External Resources */ > 1691671596 40581 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BFFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113391&oldid=113390 5* 03None1 5* (+8) 10/* External Resources */ > 1691673551 762077 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BFFuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113392&oldid=113391 5* 03None1 5* (+60) 10/* Syntax */ Horray, BFFuck now has one-branch if statements! > 1691673681 96120 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BFFuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113393&oldid=113392 5* 03None1 5* (+839) 10/* Examples */ Added a [[Truth Machine]] example > 1691673707 536575 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BFFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113394&oldid=113393 5* 03None1 5* (+16) 10/* Truth Machine] */ > 1691673849 456451 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BFFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113395&oldid=113394 5* 03None1 5* (+67) 10/* External Resources */ < 1691673910 414935 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas > 1691674039 942208 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BFFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113396&oldid=113395 5* 03None1 5* (+189) 10/* External Resources */ Fixed online compiler link since the compiler has changed < 1691674061 752919 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sgeo: I'm not sure because I only know Amiga from rumors, never used one, but I think it has normal programs that aren't even cooperative multitasking with each other because only the one in the active window is ever running (I don't know how they multitask towards the kernel, but I presume that is preemptive using hardware interrupts); but also < 1691674062 254022 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :applets which I think are preemptive towards each other and the one running normal program, but I think in exchange they can use a more restricted OS interface. < 1691674084 275914 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you'll have to find someone who actually knows the Amiga to know for sure. plus perhaps this might differ between versions of the OS too. < 1691674262 272335 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :from the article that you listed "Cooperative multitasking was an economy measure. It meant the hardware platform could omit an expensive MMU (memory-management unit) from its parts list." that is ridiculous, memory protection vs pre-emptive time sharing are orthogonal, and you need hardware interrupts for pre-emption, not a memory management < 1691674262 717448 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :units, and almost all computer hardware support hardware interrupts for ages. < 1691674288 270458 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I wouldn't trust that article if it writes something like that < 1691674408 311935 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"On the other hand, it meant that the latency of interfaces was minimal and constant, never disturbed by random interrupts or scheduler-introduced jitter. This made for a smooth, predictable user experience even on relatively underpowered hardware." if there were no interrupts then the mouse cursor would be updated on the display only when the < 1691674408 838969 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :application is idle, which would be the opposite of "a smooth, predictable user experience". try, if you wish, Age of Mythology on a slow computer, make it lag, and you'll see what it's like when you can only see your mouse cursor move once every redraw and the lag causes redraws only 10 or 20 times a second. it makes it really hard to use the < 1691674409 318345 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :mouse! > 1691674417 538070 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BFFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113397&oldid=113396 5* 03None1 5* (+0) 10/* External Resources */ Typo, fixed > 1691674453 661159 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Random14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113398&oldid=46912 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (+190) 10Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the Random programming language on GitHub. > 1691674480 262532 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BFFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113399&oldid=113397 5* 03None1 5* (+1) 10/* Reson why creating it */ Typo, fixed < 1691674501 252945 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :sounds like a journalist who doesn't know much about retrocomputing (ChatGPT being the prime suspect) wrote the article. < 1691674547 23053 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can have interrupts and cooperative multi-tasking > 1691674560 808450 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BFFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113400&oldid=113399 5* 03None1 5* (+1) 10/* Reson why creating it */ Typo, fixed > 1691674620 932711 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BFFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113401&oldid=113400 5* 03None1 5* (+16) 10/* How it works */ < 1691674648 633041 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :So nothing is really stopping you from having a smooth mouse cursor. It helps dramatically if it's a hardware sprite. < 1691674778 809261 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess when you write "no interrupts" and mean "no interrupts that cause noticable latency" then technical accuracy is no longer part of the picture. < 1691674803 828543 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: yes, but it specifically says that the user interface was "never disturbed by random interrupts" < 1691674852 393401 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, you can have interrupts to the kernel, but cooperative multitasking among programs < 1691674914 935519 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can even have cooperative multitasking among some programs but preemptive to others, which is what you get in Windows 3.1 in 386 mode: cooperative among 16-bit Windows programs, preemptive to DOS windows, but in exchange the DOS windows can't use Windows system calls and so can't really interact with windows programs such as use the clipboard < 1691674971 156517 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I remember that you could hang that with `cli; hlt` in a dosbox... not so preemptive or sandboxed < 1691674980 592106 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :probably more of the latter than the former < 1691674990 870617 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and then this got more complicated in Windows 95 OSR2 or Windows 98 (I don't recall which) which allows you to use that model for 16-bit windows programs but also allows to sandbox a 16-bit windows program so it runs preemptive < 1691674996 724167 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(i.e., it's more about lack of isolation) < 1691675014 984337 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: that's in 268 mode (which you can still start on a 386 with a command-line argument); in 386 advanced mode it won't happen\ < 1691675037 16842 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: you can tell the difference because 386 advanced mode is the only one that can run dos programs in windowed mode instead of full screen < 1691675039 111639 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm, are you sure? < 1691675043 872871 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :not quite < 1691675075 184337 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm not sure either though... it's been a long time. I /think/ I tried this on an i386 at home and it hung the system. < 1691675078 898218 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm sure there are two modes, out of necessity since boxing the programs needs a 386, but I'm not sure how cli|hlt behaves < 1691675107 560963 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's quite possible that cli|hlt does hang a DOS program even in 386 advanced mode < 1691675108 2590 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :But the only instance I actually remember was on a computer I don't know the processor model of. < 1691675147 651569 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: that's why I'm telling about the windowed mode. on 286 you only get full screen, since the DOS program will often want to access the real video buffer directly < 1691675175 37093 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :The model must be preemptive of course, but as I recall it, it was tied to the timer interrupt (what else) and `cli` wasn't emulated but simply allowed. < 1691675179 648316 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION shrugs
< 1691675184 12825 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :possible < 1691675186 796807 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :It was in windowed mode, that I'm certain of. < 1691675197 655263 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :okay > 1691675212 196954 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bffuck14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=113402 5* 03None1 5* (+20) 10Redirected page to [[BFFuck]] < 1691675232 330158 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname < 1691675232 675785 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :As I also said, this is really a failure of isolating the host from the client, rather than a lack of preemption. < 1691675249 517357 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, so it's preemptive, but it's not a full memory protection box, just accidentally protects memory accesses because of virtual-8086 mode < 1691675281 573075 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the 16-bit programs don't get any memory protection at all, a stray pointer can crash the whole system, also changed in I think Windows 98 < 1691675463 684505 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :also there's additional magic so that Windows 3.1 in 386 advanced mode can run not only real-mode DOS programs, but also mostly real-mode DOS programs that use extended memory, and even programs running in a 32-bit DOS extender. this too, of course, requires some co-operation between the himem / dos extender drivers and windows, which may be why < 1691675464 206156 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Windows ships with an updated HIMEM.SYS that differs from the one that ships with DOS < 1691675532 501351 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and the fun part when you emulate it on modern machines is that nothing can make use of more than 64 megabytes of memory, because why would anyone make the APIs more complicated to support a hypothetical configuration that no computer has < 1691675537 209222 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :XMS was so arcane < 1691675576 183725 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the XMM doesn't surprise me as much as the dos extenders < 1691675661 417947 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :also the program that runs dos extender can change to SVGA video modes, and Windows can correctly switch between those video modes and Windows's own fancy video SVGA modes. it's really well executed. < 1691675743 700571 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :imagine trying to save and restore a video mode back when video cards were all different, needing separate Windows drivers per brand, and they were so primitive that you often couldn't just autodetect them, the user had to tell the configuration, like how much RAM the video card has, to the Windows setup, or else Windows will just use the video < 1691675744 181825 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :card wrong < 1691675755 513978 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Emulating int 10h and int 15h APIs. I'm hazy on whether DOS extenders really worked... I guess whatever API EMM386 implemented could also be emulated. < 1691675776 192446 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :But hmm. < 1691675828 608739 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess you can also have magic for detecting common implementations? Like dos4gw.exe... < 1691675831 696973 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION shrugs
< 1691675831 784240 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: *some* DOS extender programs work. possibly not all. I know because back when I emulated OpenTTD in Bochs, it only worked if I ran it in Windows 3.11, program because of some bug in Bochs or in the rom that it sues < 1691675841 822726 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I forgot a lot of that stuff. < 1691675859 43575 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: or windows support in dos4gw itself, I honestly don't know how all that magic works < 1691675864 743974 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :There was a second very common one and I can't remember. < 1691675886 252139 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(besides dos4gw I mean) < 1691675910 167678 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :just search the channel logs for dos4gw, it's probably come up at some point < 1691676024 384481 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :emx was another... probably not /that/ common but I was exposed to it because of (La)TeX < 1691676112 366100 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh, right... "DPMI" is the keyword... that standardized interface which was also provided by Windows. < 1691676133 735061 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I found https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOS_extender#DOS_extenders ) < 1691676222 985822 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :So I guess CauseWay was the other common one I couldn't remember. < 1691676266 754808 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and I've seen cwsdpmi too < 1691676404 770981 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so can you answer Sgeo's OQ about Amiga? < 1691676431 851422 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I never had an Amiga. < 1691676440 735922 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :So no incentive to look at internals. < 1691676456 784687 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you could have emulated it to run games... < 1691676468 169329 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but okay < 1691676519 463005 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :there must be other retrocomputing experts on the channel < 1691676914 569385 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I had an Amiga enthusiast friend, but never got too deeply involved. < 1691676960 365978 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :But I think ESR was just generally muddling together the coöperative vs. preëmptive multitasking distinction with having or not having memory protection between programs. < 1691676990 87537 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :From the same sentece you quoted about the MMU. < 1691677184 956144 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :If you trust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exec_(Amiga) it sounds like it would be fair to say Amiga(OS) had preëmptive multitasking, even if it would have just supported one "main" application (don't know if that was really the case) and if it does allow the application to opt out from being preëmpted for an indefinite period (which seems to be the case). > 1691677737 674569 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113403&oldid=113385 5* 03None1 5* (+2) 10/* My Article */ plural > 1691677999 990812 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BFFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113404&oldid=113401 5* 03None1 5* (+0) 10/* How it works */ > 1691678166 124431 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BFFuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113405&oldid=113404 5* 03None1 5* (+194) 10/* How it works */ > 1691678199 834688 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BFFuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113406&oldid=113405 5* 03None1 5* (-1) 10/* How it works */ < 1691679044 896756 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot, is a "weatherspoon" the propeller thing under a weathercock that spins to show how fast the wind is? < 1691680702 41095 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :well fungot isn't here < 1691681008 633527 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oof. It refuses to obey me, because I've picked up a ~ in my username. < 1691681032 723390 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :(The "who's your admin" check is just an exact string equality test, not a pattern match.) < 1691681091 6157 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :My VPS was having some network trouble, probably the indent check just failed temporarily. < 1691681961 161241 :razetime!~quassel@117.254.36.178 JOIN #esolangs * :razetime < 1691682087 815753 :razetime!~quassel@117.254.36.178 QUIT :Client Quit < 1691682473 719151 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1691684470 874030 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1691686595 677839 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ooh nice! I sent a non-software bug report to someone and they replied, on the same day, not only that they have fixed the mistakes, but also that they just realized they hadn't acted on my previous bug report but now they fixed that too < 1691687940 463994 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1691688429 196497 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1691689466 56063 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :A library I wrote was audited negatively because of unresolved issues. I should probably do something about that. < 1691689737 818739 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1691690204 737378 :gugu256!~gugu256@162.87.95.79.rev.sfr.net JOIN #esolangs * :realname < 1691690371 429753 :gugu_!~gugu256@162.87.95.79.rev.sfr.net JOIN #esolangs * :realname < 1691690398 213909 :gugu_!~gugu256@162.87.95.79.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1691691505 767852 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1691691651 710663 :gugu256!~gugu256@162.87.95.79.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1691691659 52987 :SGautam!uid286066@id-286066.ilkley.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs SGautam :Siddharth Gautam < 1691692032 4150 :FreeFull!~freefull@46.205.213.202.nat.ftth.dynamic.t-mobile.pl JOIN #esolangs FreeFull :FreeFull < 1691692822 442528 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1691693366 871592 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.148 JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :b_jonas < 1691693560 448832 :gugu256!~gugu256@162.87.95.79.rev.sfr.net JOIN #esolangs * :realname < 1691694462 395682 :gugu256!~gugu256@162.87.95.79.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1691695331 149991 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1691695494 934755 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.148 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sgeo: close them all with not a bug status! < 1691695537 140315 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :close as "inactive" because there hasn't been any activity on them for 3 days < 1691695590 485789 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm my latest instance was "closed because the package is being deprecated". It was a 2 year old ticket that I rememebred nothing about :) < 1691695627 201283 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Which... is good, really. It means that I wasn't personally affected. < 1691695705 195727 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.148 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so closed as wontfix status? < 1691695744 864630 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.148 PRIVMSG #esolangs :is it deprecated because nobody wants to maintain it, or because it's obsolete or badly designed and it's not worth to use even if someone maintained it? < 1691695746 610811 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :Taking a look, it's a potential resource leak in an API no one uses because my crate is only know for a different function < 1691695806 755963 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :...the person didn't file an issue, just a pull request < 1691695934 722272 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.148 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so you know that the C++ standard standardized an interface for the Mersenne Twister mt19937 random generator, which was previously available with a simlar interface from boost and a different interface from GSL, right? only, TIL that the standardized interface isn't complete, it doesn't support the method to initialize the generator from a variable length array, so either you initialize it with a < 1691695940 645551 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.148 PRIVMSG #esolangs :32-bit seed (clearly inadequate), or in a nonstandard way different from what was specified for the original mt19937. < 1691695965 963110 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.148 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's possible that I'm misunderstanding this, but this seems rather silly. the workaround is obvious, just use the boost version and pass it an array of eight integers. < 1691695982 491748 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1691695990 874417 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.148 PRIVMSG #esolangs :boost does have the initializing constructor, though I haven't verified that it does the same as the original mt19937. < 1691697277 258851 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1691697803 417027 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1691698078 488673 :gugu256!~gugu256@162.87.95.79.rev.sfr.net JOIN #esolangs * :realname < 1691698369 797481 :mla!~mla@198.57.44.222 JOIN #esolangs * :mla < 1691698478 669745 :bgs!~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1691698711 142858 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1691699302 298899 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1691700311 556912 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Which library did you write and what is the unresolved issue? < 1691700351 574254 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :For my own projects, hardly anyone had ever added any issue reports at all < 1691700496 893749 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1691701326 454198 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1691701666 945842 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1691702042 109160 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :"Infeasible", "Obsolete", "Not reproducible" and "Intended behaviour" are our four not-a-bug statuses. < 1691702092 805390 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.148 PRIVMSG #esolangs :isn't "infeasable" a wontfix status? < 1691702275 966921 :gugu256!~gugu256@162.87.95.79.rev.sfr.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1691702332 99980 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yes, maybe "not-a-bug" wasn't a good word. < 1691702363 678777 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1691702377 683502 :FireFly!~firefly@glowbum/gluehwuermchen/firefly JOIN #esolangs FireFly :firefly < 1691702388 71805 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :There are also feature requests. You might also specify "Illogical", "Out of scope for this project", "Deferred", etc < 1691702410 272780 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :In fact, the full names of all four in our tracker might even be "Won't fix (Infeasible)", "Won't fix (Obsolete)", "Won't fix (Not reproducible)" and "Won't fix (Intended behavior)". < 1691702489 958504 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-007-125-234.178.007.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1691702490 82144 :rodgort!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1691702490 82259 :op_4!~op_4@user/op-4/x-9116473 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1691702527 299454 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-007-125-234.178.007.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN #esolangs * :melvar < 1691702565 431445 :op_4!~op_4@user/op-4/x-9116473 JOIN #esolangs op_4 :op_4 < 1691702583 428006 :rodgort!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de JOIN #esolangs * :rodgort < 1691702940 287827 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Is there bug report tracker with NNTP? < 1691703073 932417 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think there's a Jira - NNTP bridge of some sort. < 1691703298 292691 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Although it may no longer exist. < 1691703610 936545 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.148 PRIVMSG #esolangs :many bug trackers can send email, and I assume you can send that to an email to news bridge < 1691703646 670726 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.148 PRIVMSG #esolangs :usually a double conversion like that is a bad idea, but in this case it probably doesn't hurt much < 1691703804 481662 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1691704566 662335 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1691705433 246668 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.148 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wontfix reminds me of https://xkcd.com/1172/ < 1691705524 416117 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.148 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think I appreciate that strip better now that I'm on the other side of it, having to deal with changes that my co-workers make < 1691705620 737533 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1691705978 504019 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Maybe the one should be made up which is designed to use with NNTP > 1691707225 231879 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07)0,1(14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113407&oldid=92578 5* 03Rphii 5* (-1) 10/* Abbreviations */ typo > 1691707977 997343 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113408&oldid=112933 5* 03None1 5* (+33) 10/* Cat */ Added a cat program that never terminates > 1691708009 417501 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113409&oldid=113408 5* 03None1 5* (+1) 10/* Cat */ > 1691708384 906431 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BOOMOP14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113410&oldid=108865 5* 03Rphii 5* (+8) 10fix some typos > 1691708787 995776 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Division14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=113411 5* 03None1 5* (+646) 10Created page with "Division is a stupid language created by [[User:None1]]. ==Syntax== Any valid program in Division looks like this: a/b a and b are non-negative decimal numbers. Any invalid program raises a syntax error: Syntax error For a valid program, if b is 0, it raises an error > 1691709210 495309 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Division14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113412&oldid=113411 5* 03None1 5* (+431) 10Implemented < 1691709270 553134 :FreeFull!~freefull@46.205.213.202.nat.ftth.dynamic.t-mobile.pl QUIT : > 1691709457 51890 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Division14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113413&oldid=113412 5* 03None1 5* (+6) 10/* Interpreter */ > 1691709640 637642 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113414&oldid=113344 5* 03None1 5* (+73) 10/* General languages */ > 1691709907 282262 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113415&oldid=113403 5* 03None1 5* (+73) 10/* My Esolangs */ > 1691710037 135437 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113416&oldid=113414 5* 03None1 5* (-1) 10/* General languages */ > 1691710188 834253 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:AAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaEEEEEEEaaaaaaaaaaaa14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113417&oldid=113305 5* 03Linker-Error 5* (+235) 10 > 1691710210 68467 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:AAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaEEEEEEEaaaaaaaaaaaa14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113418&oldid=113417 5* 03Linker-Error 5* (+2) 10 > 1691710217 799792 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:AAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaEEEEEEEaaaaaaaaaaaa14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113419&oldid=113418 5* 03Linker-Error 5* (-1) 10 > 1691710254 795932 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Linker-Error14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113420&oldid=113321 5* 03Linker-Error 5* (+10) 10 > 1691710340 32177 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Text14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113421&oldid=113109 5* 03None1 5* (+410) 10/* See also */ Added Text compiler to [[StupidStackLanguage]] > 1691710355 588723 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Text14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113422&oldid=113421 5* 03None1 5* (-1) 10/* See also */ > 1691710490 554294 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07SSL14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=113423 5* 03None1 5* (+33) 10Redirected page to [[StupidStackLanguage]] > 1691710635 286151 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Text14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=113424&oldid=113422 5* 03None1 5* (+30) 10/* Development of a compiler */ Added Befunge compiler