←2023-09-14 2023-09-15 2023-09-16→ ↑2023 ↑all
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02:29:59 <esolangs> [[Bedtime]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=115973&oldid=109774 * PixelatedStarfish * (+25) /* Dictionary Sources */
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08:41:39 <b_jonas> I just found out that the fact that we can multiply medium-long integers or polynomials in less than quadratic time was only discovered in 1960. I'd have thought that this was known since at least the 19th century, and Euler or Gauss would have told you if you asked. How did people even do those big computations like computing fifty digits of pi before that? TAOCP even has a note on this in 4.3.3:
08:41:45 <b_jonas> “Curiously, this idea does not seem to have been discovered before 1960: None of the ‘calculating prodigies’ who have become famous for their ability to multiple large numbers mentally have been reported to use any such method, although […] would seem to lead to a reasonably easy way to multiply eight-digit numbers in one's head.”
08:42:58 <b_jonas> I'll probably assume that this is another of those things that Gauss knew but never bothered to write down, and people forgot because before public key cryptography there just weren't many applications.
08:43:19 <FireFly> heh
08:44:34 <b_jonas> pi was calculated to hundreds of digits in the 19th century, surely some form of fast multiplication would speed that up
08:45:27 <b_jonas> I can understand if they didn't do fourier transform multiplication because that's only worth for very large numbers if done by hand, and also understand if they didn't discover the three-way Karatsuba multiplication and just used the two-way split, but no fast multiplication is just amazing
08:47:34 <b_jonas> and yes, fifty years from now people will find this ironic because there's also some very simple ideas that we should have discovered ages ago and could be applying right now
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09:33:43 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=115975&oldid=115953 * None1 * (+190) /* Delete image containing private information */
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10:01:54 <ais523> two minutes after I log on, and I'm already being asked to take admin actions :-)
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10:03:37 <ais523> also, for whatever reason, edits to my user talk page aren't triggering the Orange Bar Of Doom any more?
10:03:43 <ais523> do other people have the same problem?
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10:11:41 <esolangs> [[MediaWiki:Uploadtext]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=115990 * Ais523 * (+1573) a big warning on the upload form, in the hope of reducing the number of images that get uploaded against policy
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10:30:56 <esolangs> [[Rhokell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=115991&oldid=115897 * Pro465 * (+1003) /* Cat */ add Kolakoski sequence example
10:32:30 <wib_jonas> dunno, I only asked for non-admin actions, which is to recategorize https://esolangs.org/wiki/UT19 as a Language
10:33:31 <esolangs> [[Timesplitter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=115992&oldid=115969 * GUAqwq * (-4)
10:37:46 <ais523> wib_jonas: I was wondering about appropriate categories for that
10:38:04 <ais523> I guess you could define the language it interprets as a language (although UT19 itself is the interpreter, not the language it interprets)
10:38:42 <ais523> but, it is just Brainpocalypse II with a really weird encoding (the tag machine was constructed specifically to be a Brainpocalypse II interpreter, although of course you can give it input that doesn't correspond to a Brainpocalypse II program)
10:38:52 <ais523> so Examples seemed like a better fit
10:39:04 <wib_jonas> ais523: I only claim that the *page* should be categorized into Language, not that UT19 itself is a language.
10:39:20 <wib_jonas> the page is not only about the implementation
10:39:38 <ais523> I'm not sure that the page actually does describe the language, though?
10:39:41 <ais523> just how the language can be used
10:39:45 <esolangs> [[Timesplitter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=115993&oldid=115992 * GUAqwq * (+948)
10:40:14 <ais523> like, it doesn't give a clear view of the behaviour of UT19 inputs that aren't Brainpocalypse II programs
10:40:55 <ais523> e.g. although there is a clear split of the commands into Command/Parity/Reset global cycles, and you're only supposed to use one at the time, there is nothing actually preventing you mixing them
10:41:01 <ais523> * use one at a tie
10:41:06 <ais523> ** use one at a time
10:41:15 <wib_jonas> hmm
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10:42:35 <ais523> I am reminded of the time when Keymaker wrote a quine in Acyclic Tag, which was a case of making a use of the language that was entirely unrelated to the situation for which it was designed
10:43:31 <ais523> which is fine, of course – a common esoprogramming activity is using languages for things they were never designed for
10:44:01 <ais523> but I was very surprised
10:51:47 <esolangs> [[Timesplitter]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=115994&oldid=115993 * GUAqwq * (+215) /* All the keywords */
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10:59:33 <esolangs> [[User talk:GUAqwq]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=115998 * GUAqwq * (+20) Created page with "This is a talk page."
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11:11:32 <esolangs> [[Talk:Tetrastack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116004&oldid=116001 * GUAqwq * (+520) Undo revision 116001 by [[Special:Contributions/GUAqwq|GUAqwq]] ([[User talk:GUAqwq|talk]])
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11:27:06 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116006&oldid=115621 * None1 * (+0) Move BrainFexec to optimizing implementations group
12:30:54 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116007&oldid=115521 * None1 * (+875) New esolang: 1
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12:32:40 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116009&oldid=116008 * None1 * (+51) /* Examples */
12:32:58 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116010&oldid=116009 * None1 * (-1) /* Random Decimal number between 0 and 255 */
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12:39:11 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116013&oldid=116012 * None1 * (+156) Improve formatting
12:39:30 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116014&oldid=116013 * None1 * (+9) /* Commands */
12:41:02 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116015&oldid=116014 * None1 * (+62) /* Commands */
12:41:03 <esolangs> [[Rhokell]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116016&oldid=115991 * Pro465 * (+28) /* Peano multiplication and exponentiation */ add explanation
12:43:05 <esolangs> [[Tetrastack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116017&oldid=116003 * Hakerh400 * (+45) Fix the "Hello, World!" program and add the "Cat program"
12:43:48 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116018&oldid=116015 * None1 * (+59) /* Examples */
12:45:42 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116019&oldid=116018 * None1 * (+43) /* A+B Problem */
12:46:57 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116020&oldid=116019 * None1 * (+15) /* Commands */
12:49:14 <esolangs> [[Rhokell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116021&oldid=116016 * Pro465 * (+239) /* Peano multiplication and exponentiation */ add text to cons list transformer
12:50:09 <esolangs> [[Tetrastack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116022&oldid=116017 * GUAqwq * (+102) /* Computational class */
12:55:21 <esolangs> [[Talk:Tetrastack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116023&oldid=116004 * GUAqwq * (+299)
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13:06:47 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116026&oldid=116020 * None1 * (+0) /* Random bit */
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13:44:12 <esolangs> [[Talk:KnightJump]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=116027 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+119) Created page with "Holy hell--~~~~"
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14:20:32 <esolangs> [[Albanian Laundry Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116028&oldid=115913 * ALBANIAN-LAUNDROMAT * (+31)
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14:50:33 <wib_jonas> ok, I just found out yet another crazy thing about English words. so "weary" the adjective meaning exhausted is not pronounced like "wear" the verb that means to have clothes on, and they're likely etymologically unrelated. instead, there's a different adjective "wary" meaning cautious, which is pronounced as if it came from that verb.
14:52:20 <wib_jonas> apparently English just has too many words and that's why there are too many coincidences like this, where two words look like they're related but they're not, and you might never know until they look them up
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15:01:18 <wib_jonas> I'm not sure about this, but IIUC this is not one of those cases like "sign" vs "signal", "cycle" vs "bicycle", "finite" vs "infinite" where the words are related in the way you think but the vowels change, instead "weary" is unrelated to "wear" despite what you'd think
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15:07:37 <arseniiv> anybody have ideas on making a game using plain old text UI? I think it can be a bit easier than using graphics. But I’m not talking about classic text adventures too. Something with puzzley puzzles. But I don’t know what exactly do I want. I return to this distraction time to time and still it had to bear any fruit. So maybe you know anyone with ideas in this vein
15:15:07 <esolangs> [[@everyone]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116029&oldid=103689 * ALBANIAN-LAUNDROMAT * (+930) /* Basic examples */ added 99 bottles
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15:28:42 <wib_jonas> arseniiv: I was thinking about making an impelementation of Niagara the board game with IRC interface. the Niagara game state and game actions are rather small and simple, so this could work without any special support on client side.
15:34:00 <esolangs> [[Albanian Laundry Machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116030&oldid=116028 * ALBANIAN-LAUNDROMAT * (+36) added example
15:35:23 <arseniiv> wib_jonas: oh, I seem to remember you telling about that one! That’s an interesting kind of project too though I was pointed more to a single-player games with narration/investigation
15:37:56 <arseniiv> will take a skim through the rules to decide if I’m going to try my hand at it too
15:38:14 <wib_jonas> well, you could have the computer play the other players so you can play it single player as well
15:40:20 <arseniiv> right
15:42:05 <wib_jonas> as for single player, I think you could make a dungeon explorer game, of the kind that nethack and dcss and adom represent, with a dumb terminal UI. nethack and dcss need a full screen display because they use a map, but we know that you can explore dungeons without a map, the way you do it in card games like Munchkin. some monsters are in your
15:42:05 <wib_jonas> room, and many you add a mechanic where each turn you choose which monsters to run away from, by default one per turn but your speed bonuses and the monsters' speed can avoid that too, and you have to fight the rest. I was wondering if something like that could exist, mostly as a card game, but a text adventure game might be possible too. Kingdom
15:42:06 <wib_jonas> of Loathing might be relevant.
15:43:46 <esolangs> [[Yo]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116031&oldid=71035 * ALBANIAN-LAUNDROMAT * (+46) added cats
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15:48:06 <esolangs> [[Albanian Laundry Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116032&oldid=116030 * ALBANIAN-LAUNDROMAT * (+72)
15:48:37 <arseniiv> the rules of Niagara seem quite extensive. I think I’ll try to figure them out at least for myself even if I won’t decide to code anything
16:04:14 <esolangs> [[Albanian Laundry Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116033&oldid=116032 * ALBANIAN-LAUNDROMAT * (+524) /* Examples */
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16:28:36 <esolangs> [[Albanian Laundry Machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116034&oldid=116033 * ALBANIAN-LAUNDROMAT * (+85) /* Commands */
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16:45:10 <esolangs> [[Rhokell]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116035&oldid=116021 * Pro465 * (+29) /* text to cons list */ fix infinite loop bug
16:58:18 <esolangs> [[Rhokell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116036&oldid=116035 * Pro465 * (+786) /* Peano multiplication and exponentiation */ add hello world example
17:07:47 <esolangs> [[PINAPL]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116037&oldid=68126 * ALBANIAN-LAUNDROMAT * (+23) added category
17:08:33 <esolangs> [[Lhooq]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116038&oldid=70827 * ALBANIAN-LAUNDROMAT * (+23)
17:09:45 <esolangs> [[Kinetosis]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116039&oldid=49998 * ALBANIAN-LAUNDROMAT * (+23)
17:25:32 <b_jonas> arseniiv: similar to Niagara, Poker card games can probably be played through an IRC bot
17:27:14 <esolangs> [[Rhokell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116040&oldid=116036 * Pro465 * (+377) /* Cat */ add reverse cat
17:28:00 <arseniiv> b_jonas: yeah! Though they’d need a randomization method agreed upon to be fair by every player
17:29:38 <b_jonas> arseniiv: Niagara is similar. it doesn't need random dice rolls, but the players need to make their moves simultaneously without knowing the other players' moves. a trusted IRC bot can do either of these.
17:32:10 <arseniiv> b_jonas: ah yeah parallel moves, now I remember!
17:33:53 <arseniiv> still haven’t read the rules properly. I put it off because I need to read two sources simultaneously, to both be able to read legible text and knowing what names refer to what on the board or among the pieces
17:34:18 <esolangs> [[Rhokell]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116041&oldid=116040 * Pro465 * (-12) /* Kolakoski sequence */ be less hand-wavy
17:35:17 <b_jonas> yes, the simultaneous moves are an essential feature in Niagara, just like in rock-paper-scissors or diplomacy
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17:48:24 <arseniiv> that’s a good game element
18:01:46 <esolangs> [[Rhokell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116042&oldid=116041 * Pro465 * (+374) /* Difference between variable and function names */ improve explanation
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18:30:29 <esolangs> [[Talk:Jail system makes no sense]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116043&oldid=115926 * Pro465 * (+195) /* Hope is lost */ request explanation
19:01:56 <zzo38> There are games with plain old text UI, and one idea I had is to make up Pokemon battle simulator game with text only (which has simultaneous commands, although the order of execution is then decided by priority and speed), although my idea was to make the engine in C with API and then the front-end will be a program calling that API and might be a telnet server, perhaps
19:02:23 <river> it sounds like a good idea to use telnet
19:03:30 <zzo38> Pokemon requires both simultaneous commands without the other player knowing, as well as randomness (for accuracy checks, probability of secondary effects, random damage factor, check for attacks failing due to confusion and paralysis, duration of sleeping, and many other effects are decided at random)
19:05:00 <zzo38> (And, if you want to be assigned teams at random, then there is that too; although normally players would upload their teams.)
19:07:09 <zzo38> I suppose a front-end with IRC might be possible too; private messages could be used to send commands. however, in the case of Pokemon, uploading teams might not work as well with IRC, which is not intended for long messages.
19:18:54 <zzo38> And, like with the other games you mention, you could also have single-player mode with AI for computer players in Pokemon game too.
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19:46:55 <sknebel> trusted bot/server of some kind is easiest, but you can even do things like randomness or simultanous moves without it. e.g. by making players post hashes for which they then reveal the input
19:56:53 <b_jonas> zzo38: Pokemon teams aren't long messages, are they? I think they have only a small amount of data
19:57:21 <b_jonas> but I'm not sure what you'd upload from, unless it's another IRC bot that plays pokémon
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20:18:07 <zzo38> You could represent a Pokemon team in a compact form. The data needed (although it can vary depending on which generation and other rule options you are using) is: species (and form if applicable), gender, hold item, moves (there are four), IVs (six), EVs (six), and I think in the newest generations there is also Tera types. And then, there are six pokemons in each team, so this data occurs six times.
20:18:33 <zzo38> O, I forgot nature.
20:22:24 <zzo38> And PP Up, although I think that is rarely specified, as far as I know. And also level. There is also nicknames, although it might be better to not use them in order to avoid a problem with being confusing and the wrong one, and some players might also want to specify colours of pokeballs although that is not important in a text-only interface anyways.
20:28:49 <zzo38> If you are playing that items other than hold items are allowed, then you might have to specify which ones (depending on the rule options), and if you play non-Cleric-Clause then also will need current HP, current PP, and non-volatile status. Some rule variants might even require additional details, possibly.
20:29:29 <zzo38> I suppose, we can try and let's see if it will fit into a single IRC message.
20:43:43 <zzo38> What is the longest names for moves, items, species, forms, etc (in ASCII only)? For the species you can also use pokedex numbers though, which is shorter
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20:51:11 <b_jonas> wait, there are six IVs? I thought there were fewer per pokemon
20:51:34 <b_jonas> don't you need the level or XP too?
20:52:03 <zzo38> In generation I and II there are only four (that you can set by yourself; HP is calculated automatically). In later generations all six are independent.
20:52:14 <b_jonas> I see
20:52:34 <b_jonas> ah yes, you mentioned level already
20:52:37 <zzo38> I did specify level above (it is one that I forgot in my first message so I added it in the next one), but XP is not needed since it has no effect.
20:53:32 <b_jonas> it needn't be a single message just a few messages
20:54:23 <b_jonas> anyway, I like Niagara specifically beacuse the game state is so small, even if you represent it in a human-readable way
20:57:05 <zzo38> It is not a game I know the rules of
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22:16:45 <b_jonas> I like this Oxford dictionary but it's so annoying that it doesn't give pronunciation except for very few words so I have to look that up separately.
23:13:55 <zzo38> Can you make up any Hero Hearts levels?
23:16:37 <esolangs> [[Esketit]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116044&oldid=56604 * ALBANIAN-LAUNDROMAT * (+23) added category
23:16:52 <esolangs> [[Tetrastack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116045&oldid=116025 * Hakerh400 * (+168) Fix TC proof
23:18:04 <esolangs> [[Tetrastack]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116046&oldid=116045 * Hakerh400 * (-2) /* Computational class */
23:18:05 <esolangs> [[ErrorFree]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116047&oldid=114214 * ALBANIAN-LAUNDROMAT * (+23)
23:18:25 <esolangs> [[Eod]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116048&oldid=109957 * ALBANIAN-LAUNDROMAT * (+23)
23:21:23 <esolangs> [[For The Worthy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116049&oldid=98604 * ALBANIAN-LAUNDROMAT * (+23)
23:32:32 <esolangs> [[IThinkMyComputerIsDrunk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116050&oldid=109634 * ALBANIAN-LAUNDROMAT * (+23)
23:36:58 <esolangs> [[Unnamed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=116051&oldid=101396 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+2) Categories
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