< 1696465921 613732 :Guest71!~Guest71@lhgh-8-208-126-202-129.dsl.netins.net JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Guest71 < 1696465921 658854 :Guest71!~Guest71@lhgh-8-208-126-202-129.dsl.netins.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :hi < 1696465961 758671 :Guest71!~Guest71@lhgh-8-208-126-202-129.dsl.netins.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :hi < 1696465972 497809 :Guest71!~Guest71@lhgh-8-208-126-202-129.dsl.netins.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :bye < 1696465975 473147 :Guest71!~Guest71@lhgh-8-208-126-202-129.dsl.netins.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1696466857 17766 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1696466912 60181 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1696468025 613652 :Zefoo!~Zefoo@2601:282:8600:e20:7dc4:d464:88d:1269 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Zefoo < 1696468051 876129 :Zefoo!~Zefoo@2601:282:8600:e20:7dc4:d464:88d:1269 QUIT :Client Quit < 1696468430 417525 :raz3time!~razetime@sd202148.hung.ab.nthu.edu.tw JOIN #esolangs razetime :realname < 1696468468 605645 :raz3time!~razetime@sd202148.hung.ab.nthu.edu.tw QUIT :Client Quit < 1696468485 390254 :razetime!~razetime@sd202148.hung.ab.nthu.edu.tw JOIN #esolangs razetime :realname < 1696471979 84404 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot QUIT :Killed (lead.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services)) < 1696471981 18215 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@sourcehut/user/noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron < 1696471986 763928 :user3456_!user3456@user/user3456 JOIN #esolangs user3456 :user3456 < 1696472018 904440 :user3456!~user3456@user/user3456 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1696472054 204408 :user3456_!user3456@user/user3456 NICK :user3456 < 1696479628 432014 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: The plot thickens: https://github.com/icculus/mojosetup/commit/1ad762b82a7dbd435285afd74fca9f334d6c5930 is newer than GOG, so if they forked mojosetup they may not have ZIP64 support. < 1696479781 625359 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I know you had mention before the "So Broken" sokoban game. Is this the proper rules? http://sprunge.us/h6Sk6W (I have not actually played the game, so I guessed) < 1696479952 591170 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :how does that differ from sokoban? < 1696479990 311717 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :The main point of So Broken is that undo/redo do not move the player, only the boxes. < 1696480073 502142 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(And it's okay for the player to be on the same square as a box; the player just can't move then.) < 1696480211 643958 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm, did you play Tres Undos? < 1696480213 471605 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Other than that... hmm I seem to recall colored boxes and targets? I don't remember all the mechanics. < 1696480217 364358 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess I mentioned it in here before? < 1696480222 989920 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Maybe that's the context the other one came up in? < 1696480260 531456 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Anyway I can't read zzo38's paste. < 1696480279 535722 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Is the player supposed to not move if the box is in the same position than player? < 1696480324 721867 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Does the paste not work, it works but is unreadable? < 1696480360 591750 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I do not know what it does. I do not know what language that is. < 1696480418 243251 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :It is the Free Hero Mesh programming language, and it is (intended to be) a implementation of So Broken game. < 1696480427 350375 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :In the original game, if the player is on the same square as a box, then only the box is displayed; the player is hidden and trying to move has no effect. < 1696480497 91842 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :One way this happens is that you push a box one square and then "undo"... the box will revert to its previous position, and the player will stay there. < 1696480521 352297 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :This implementation uses S and R to save/restore the position of the boxes, by creating a invisible (and non-interacting) object to save its position. (VisualOnly means it is non-interacting with movement; Invisible is implied because Image is not specified for that class.) (The game engine has undo/redo function but its meaning cannot be changed like that.) < 1696480571 101660 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :You can move through a box by pushing it twice (provided there is enough space) and then "undo" twice. < 1696480593 351760 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION shrugs.
< 1696480610 15403 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :This one doesn't prevent the player from moving where there is a box, although it could be changed to prevent that easily enough if it is desired. (Although, I thought it would be necessary to be in the same position due to one of the screenshots?) < 1696480662 584626 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(The player can't move into the same cell as a box except by pushing R to move the box where there is the player, but if that is the case, the player can then move out of that cell.) < 1696480668 192513 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I actually forgot... I seem to recall that the undo/redo stack is unaffected as long as the player moves without pushing a box? < 1696480690 331757 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Been a while. < 1696481064 364909 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Making the player invisible if there is a box in the same cell would also be possible, but I think merely to prevent being movement would be good enough) < 1696481110 911827 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Making many colour of boxes also would be possible to do but also I had not done; none of the screenshots shown there have colours of boxes, anyways) < 1696481751 42733 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Do you like to make up the puzzle game, too? < 1696481780 200069 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :shachaf: oh god, how many levels of "really" does that game add to "undo"? < 1696481952 713360 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: The name is a hint. < 1696482048 315599 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :So it is. < 1696482156 464022 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :What I had read a comment of Tres Undos says four undo levels, but only three are actually used < 1696483127 372256 :razetime!~razetime@sd202148.hung.ab.nthu.edu.tw QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1696483282 453802 :razetime!~razetime@sd202148.hung.ab.nthu.edu.tw JOIN #esolangs razetime :realname < 1696483741 517391 :Hooloovoo!~Hooloovoo@hax0rbana.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1696483809 457778 :Hooloovoo!~Hooloovoo@hax0rbana.org JOIN #esolangs hooloovoo :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1696484513 532030 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :hats?! < 1696484532 971473 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh I see. FANCY < 1696485133 561614 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm missing the point of the puzzle though. < 1696485367 856599 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1696485385 746092 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse < 1696485489 454674 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :There's only one puzzle with hats, right? < 1696485516 738895 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm guessing it's more to show the idea. < 1696485524 114119 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh, no, there's also a "Player Pack" with extra puzzles. < 1696485604 289941 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :And they also have another new element, hmm. < 1696485642 134283 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'll get back to it later but for the time being I'm stuck on that one, hmm, "official" hat level. < 1696489025 313864 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah, I misunderstood. < 1696490187 78002 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.172 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: which game is the hat in? I'm confused among all these games mentioned now < 1696490220 10652 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :The Tres Undo one < 1696490226 130824 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :+s < 1696492065 201254 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah, got it... basically forgot a trick. < 1696493036 869004 :user3456!user3456@user/user3456 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1696493796 386254 :razetime!~razetime@sd202148.hung.ab.nthu.edu.tw QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1696494491 508608 :razetime!~razetime@sd202148.hung.ab.nthu.edu.tw JOIN #esolangs razetime :realname < 1696494877 438873 :user3456!user3456@user/user3456 JOIN #esolangs user3456 :user3456 < 1696495403 626682 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1696498083 417744 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn JOIN #esolangs toonn :Unknown < 1696498130 626220 :cpressey!~cpressey@45.136.108.105 JOIN #esolangs cpressey :[https://web.libera.chat] cpressey < 1696498549 246003 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 JOIN #esolangs arseniiv :the chaotic arseniiv > 1696500146 735007 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Counting14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117463&oldid=117462 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (+781) 10Introduced a section treating of the involved data types. < 1696500492 801082 :cpressey!~cpressey@45.136.108.105 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hi arseniiv < 1696500502 191284 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hi! < 1696500738 820452 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :shachaf: the player pack looks difficult... I have solved *one* of those so far < 1696501571 70995 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: what are you and shachaf playing? Sorry I missed the start of discussion < 1696501608 922218 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :we have logs :P < 1696501629 283226 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 PRIVMSG #esolangs :IDK what to search for :') < 1696501680 321966 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 PRIVMSG #esolangs :don’t want to read them, I’ll won’t know how to stop and will eventually forget what I look for < 1696501730 474657 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 PRIVMSG #esolangs :btw were it some of you here who’ve suggested to play Patrick’s Parabox? It was absolute masterpiece < 1696501749 526045 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 PRIVMSG #esolangs :very much liked the experience < 1696501850 362515 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :arseniiv: it's literally in the past 10 messages, well, was, before your monolog < 1696501853 365844 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs ::P < 1696501884 926884 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: oh sorry I thought it was earlier this week or something < 1696502046 276205 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 PRIVMSG #esolangs :found it, thankso < 1696502095 85170 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: then was it a different game that I seem to remember you discuss a week or so earlier? < 1696502112 508161 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 PRIVMSG #esolangs :idle curiosity < 1696502278 620758 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 PRIVMSG #esolangs :btw have I written anything about microtonal music here? No themed esolang though, I don’t think there can be a fruitful idea to marry the two < 1696502313 340527 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :a week ago? < 1696502321 8857 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(there is plenty of esomath though: linear algebra applications, including exterior algebra; and some other things) < 1696502355 400424 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh, speaking of linear algebra, what's going on with cyclic codes? < 1696502361 192733 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: if you don’t remember then I either synthesized something that wasn’t, or bad with time. No problem then < 1696502361 305171 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Why are people into them? < 1696502412 561333 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(cyclic codes looked pretty esoteric to me last time I’ve seen them, but I have barely an understanding) < 1696502439 818146 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :So one thing is codes generated by a polynomial. Fix some field, and take a polynomial p of degree k in that field, and consider strings of length n > k. The code words are exactly the multiples of p. < 1696502444 271549 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Right? < 1696502489 119404 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :And one property of cyclic codes is that they're always generated by a polynomial -- specifically the (unique) lowest-degree monic polynomial in the code -- and also that polynomial divides x^n - 1 < 1696502542 832323 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've gathered this much. < 1696502570 972930 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :And these things aren't that hard to prove. < 1696502583 71827 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh, and also any polynomial that divides x^n - 1 generates a cyclic code. < 1696502632 441599 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :arseniiv: There was that Niagara board game discussion < 1696502638 927333 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm confused about why people call CRC on variable-length messages -- where there's no particular n -- "cyclic redundancy check", since it seems like it's only cyclic for some message lengths. But maybe people are just being general. < 1696502653 350267 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: aah < 1696502732 232358 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`? like < 1696502735 171845 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :like? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1696502843 522523 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :arseniiv: and before that the last thing I remember is me discussing shapez.io and its puzzle DLC < 1696502847 181999 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION shrugs
< 1696503057 512466 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: Remind me, did you play SquishCraft? < 1696503100 441355 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :doesn't ring a bell < 1696503115 913238 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(i.e. I don't even recall a recommendation or anything) < 1696503123 662888 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Uh oh! < 1696503138 68161 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :I should get back to that one, I only played a bit. < 1696503163 670138 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :But I suspect it's up your alley? < 1696503165 480749 :cpressey!~cpressey@45.136.108.105 PRIVMSG #esolangs :shachaf: I never found that name too confusing; I took it to mean that the check cycles at n even if the message is shorter or longer than n (or 2n or whatever) < 1696503181 521699 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :we did have a square-squishing puzzle game though. < 1696503236 44932 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :cpressey: Fair enough. < 1696503244 251356 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so hmm < 1696503247 837388 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm, is there always some n for any polynomial? < 1696503255 821035 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :shachaf: that looks familiar, I must have forgotten the name < 1696503291 238784 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah, OK. < 1696503324 760772 :razetime!~razetime@sd202148.hung.ab.nthu.edu.tw PRIVMSG #esolangs :squishcraft has an interesting promotional video on steam. < 1696503326 581340 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://bcat112a.itch.io/squishcraft was in my browser history < 1696503349 881778 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh, that's the demo. < 1696503384 168624 :razetime!~razetime@sd202148.hung.ab.nthu.edu.tw PRIVMSG #esolangs :there's a "full" version for 259 rupees. < 1696503432 630107 :cpressey!~cpressey@45.136.108.105 QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1696503477 216907 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm, it costs about twice as many rupees here! < 1696503511 762225 :razetime!~razetime@sd202148.hung.ab.nthu.edu.tw PRIVMSG #esolangs :seems like a nice way to spend a few hourse < 1696503691 796096 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess polynomial codes, or maybe cyclic codes, are much easier to do error correction with? < 1696504167 679931 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: hmmmmmmm < 1696504198 851584 :razetime!~razetime@sd202148.hung.ab.nthu.edu.tw PRIVMSG #esolangs :reasoning about how these squishes skew the blocks is getting quite difficult. < 1696504837 156528 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas < 1696505035 418549 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :shachaf: it's a matter of taste but I'd say no. zip uses crc32 checksum while gzip uses adler checksum, and if you have one corrupted bit it's easier to find which one it is with adler than with crc, because for crc you need to find the logarithm of a polynomial in your field < 1696505072 931293 :Koen!~Koen@2a01:e34:ec7c:30:582e:ee88:dac5:c85b JOIN #esolangs * :Koen < 1696505439 260214 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :crc32 is linear in GF(2**32), the byte in position n is weighted with the nth power of some generator; while Adler is linear in GF(65521)**2, the byte in position n is weighted with (1, n), except I think the position is counted backwards from the end of the file < 1696506205 81485 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :arseniiv: oh did you ever see this: https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2023-09-18.html#lgd ff. (not sure whether that's still of interest after 2 weeks...) < 1696506323 2304 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I forgot except that somehow, CRC32 has now come up once again) < 1696506428 251038 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: I ended up rediscovering it myself but thanks! My implementation was without prepending 0xff bytes though, I think I might have been used something else instead < 1696506466 681452 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :That's just a weirdly easy trick to change the internal state back to 0. < 1696506536 480579 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I played with that for a bit that time, was satisfied crcs are now all right, timed it in a cheap way, tinkered for a bit with different speed improvements and left as is, as I wasn’t in need to extract ogg tracks from anything anymore :D < 1696506615 264793 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"weirdly easy"... I spent those 30-40 minutes trying various more complicated variations because I thought it should be harder. Silly me. < 1696506670 572360 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :also don't trust what I say above, I have only very little understanding of error-correcting codes, and may be wrong about the specifics above < 1696506699 953012 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 PRIVMSG #esolangs :eyah I get why all that xoring with 0xff and nonzero intial state to make zero-run-prepending errors catchable, and I get why OGG doesn’t need that (because each chapter should already start with fixed nonzero bytes) but why oh why OGG and zlib are bit-backwards to each other < 1696506717 54581 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: yes, that's normal in programming, the hard part is to find the simple solutions < 1696506741 127415 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ha < 1696506766 406707 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :arseniiv: Because of Gulliver's Travels of course. < 1696506811 196085 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 PRIVMSG #esolangs :before reading about backward bits I checked I think 8 or 16 variations in code, and only after all of them were wrong did I try to search for anything < 1696506853 971516 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: what wh… ah yes I remember. I didn’t read that part myself but I read about that after < 1696506914 950703 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :arseniiv: AIUI this, hmm, essay is the actual origin of the term "endianness": https://www.rfc-editor.org/ien/ien137.txt < 1696507018 631289 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Well, not the term, but its application to computers and networking technology.) < 1696507049 413955 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :arseniiv: zlib is ancient but I think CRC32 is older still than it, and CRC32 is kind of a simple mathematical idea, so zlib doesn't get to define one canonical version for it. we talked on #esolangs earlier on how x86 has three different unrelated instructions for multiplication in a two-power finite field like you need for CRC, they use two or < 1696507049 914528 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :three different encodings that differ in the choice of generating polynomial, and that while these all represent the field element as a polynomial of a generator, there are two other ways to represent elements of these fields, the logarithmic one that https://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=862789 uses, and the one that David Madore's IOCCC entry uses < 1696507128 875930 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the representation that David Madore's IOCCC entry uses is still linear, but the coeffs aren't powers of a generating polynomial < 1696507205 352801 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 PRIVMSG #esolangs : x86 has three different unrelated instructions for multiplication in a two-power finite field => ow ow < 1696507557 161820 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :arseniiv: PCLMULQDQ , GF2P8AFFINEQB , and CRC32. search the chat logs for it, we discussed them two or three times. < 1696507954 615176 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: thanks! < 1696509181 641900 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed > 1696510556 607334 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None1/InDev14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117464&oldid=117133 5* 03None1 5* (+100) 10 > 1696510619 886008 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None1/InDev14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117465&oldid=117464 5* 03None1 5* (+101) 10 < 1696510783 497157 :razetime!~razetime@sd202148.hung.ab.nthu.edu.tw QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds > 1696510918 850187 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None1/InDev14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117466&oldid=117465 5* 03None1 5* (+64) 10/* Commands */ > 1696510933 14653 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None1/InDev14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117467&oldid=117466 5* 03None1 5* (+3) 10/* Commands */ < 1696511382 614230 :cpressey!~cpressey@45.136.108.105 JOIN #esolangs cpressey :[https://web.libera.chat] cpressey < 1696511467 927243 :cpressey!~cpressey@45.136.108.105 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I tried to learn more about probability theory over the summer. < 1696511601 40246 :cpressey!~cpressey@45.136.108.105 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I learned that Kolmogorov's 2nd axiom, while indisputably necessary, also prevents probability distributions from having nicer algebraic properties < 1696511701 167092 :cpressey!~cpressey@45.136.108.105 PRIVMSG #esolangs :You can combine distributions in various ways, but you have to keep normalizing the result so that it sums to 1, and that is a buzzkill, algebraically speaking < 1696511838 99844 :cpressey!~cpressey@45.136.108.105 PRIVMSG #esolangs :So I started thinking, maybe you can apply operations to underlying "populations" of some sort, something more concrete, and then derive the probability distribution from that, only when you need a probability distribution, at the end of some sequence of operations. < 1696511852 125459 :cpressey!~cpressey@45.136.108.105 PRIVMSG #esolangs :That seems to work more nicely. < 1696512060 927423 :cpressey!~cpressey@45.136.108.105 PRIVMSG #esolangs :But it also seems likely that it's too artificial to have much practical use. < 1696512197 285137 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1696512412 604736 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117468&oldid=117310 5* 03Infinitehexagon 5* (+60) 10 < 1696512624 727691 :cpressey!~cpressey@45.136.108.105 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh, I also learned that the philosophical basis for probability theory is far from uncontroversial. > 1696512736 556751 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Alpha14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117469&oldid=117399 5* 03Infinitehexagon 5* (+24) 10 > 1696512851 586939 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Alpha14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117470&oldid=117469 5* 03Infinitehexagon 5* (+126) 10 > 1696512865 356939 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Alpha14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117471&oldid=117470 5* 03Infinitehexagon 5* (+15) 10/* Input Problem */ > 1696513444 809688 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beta14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=117472 5* 03Infinitehexagon 5* (+1169) 10Created page with "'''Beta''' is an esoteric programming language that is part of a series by User:Infinitehexagon on Greek esolangs that will be a derivative of the previous esolang with more commands, less commands, or modified commands. It has 4 more extra commands than Alpha. ==C > 1696513474 350437 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beta14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117473&oldid=117472 5* 03Infinitehexagon 5* (+0) 10 < 1696514256 347096 :Koen!~Koen@2a01:e34:ec7c:30:582e:ee88:dac5:c85b QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1696514258 662872 :cpressey!~cpressey@45.136.108.105 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds > 1696514436 448482 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beta14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117474&oldid=117473 5* 03Infinitehexagon 5* (+376) 10 > 1696514465 862130 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beta14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117475&oldid=117474 5* 03Infinitehexagon 5* (+2) 10 > 1696514491 839113 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beta14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117476&oldid=117475 5* 03Infinitehexagon 5* (+4) 10 > 1696514548 780958 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bawkbawk14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117477&oldid=117442 5* 03Lilchiky 5* (+2) 10/* 99 bottles of beer */ +1 > 1696514767 728006 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beta14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117478&oldid=117476 5* 03Infinitehexagon 5* (+12) 10 > 1696514938 485460 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beta14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117479&oldid=117478 5* 03Infinitehexagon 5* (+75) 10 < 1696515057 613993 :cpressey!~cpressey@45.136.108.105 JOIN #esolangs cpressey :[https://web.libera.chat] cpressey < 1696515141 416911 :razetime!~razetime@sd202148.hung.ab.nthu.edu.tw JOIN #esolangs razetime :realname > 1696515188 993483 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beta14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117480&oldid=117479 5* 03Infinitehexagon 5* (+38) 10 > 1696515216 658662 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Alpha14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117481&oldid=117471 5* 03Infinitehexagon 5* (+33) 10/* Truth machine */ < 1696515291 325007 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 PRIVMSG #esolangs :cpressey: how about probability frameworks à la random matrices? I forget what it was called, dressed as an abstract thing (something like C-algebra); it also was described somewhere at Terry Tao’s blog and might be called “noncommutative probability” or “free probability”. I’ll look at my bookmarks < 1696515306 882859 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that framework might be free from some of Kolmogorov-style pitfails > 1696515325 105421 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Infinitehexagon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117482&oldid=117387 5* 03Infinitehexagon 5* (+9) 10/* My Esolangs (chronological order) */ > 1696515336 186068 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Infinitehexagon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117483&oldid=117482 5* 03Infinitehexagon 5* (+4) 10/* My Esolangs (chronological order) */ < 1696515344 458684 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I don’t remember if one can describe an arbitrary distribution that way, or only, say, ℂ-valued ones > 1696515354 689039 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Infinitehexagon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117484&oldid=117483 5* 03Infinitehexagon 5* (+2) 10/* Things I might do */ < 1696515380 742257 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this post: https://terrytao.wordpress.com/2010/02/10/245a-notes-5-free-probability/ < 1696515443 367047 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it was where I learned that this exists at all, first. But I’ve already forgotten most of it. I just noted it looks quantum-mechanically (because these things are really related in the end) < 1696515961 212882 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, an unital *-algebra and a *-linear functional which sends 1 to 1. The latter should be, I presume, equivalent to the axiom you’ve mentioned, so this would be no way out, then < 1696516040 421529 :razetime!~razetime@sd202148.hung.ab.nthu.edu.tw QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1696516056 373377 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, Tao writes the same right away. 1 is like the whole sample space (its projection operator) < 1696516087 181457 :razetime!~razetime@sd202148.hung.ab.nthu.edu.tw JOIN #esolangs razetime :realname < 1696516146 385649 :Koen!~Koen@2a01:e34:ec7c:30:c025:74ef:97cf:b3ba JOIN #esolangs * :Koen < 1696516928 146258 :cpressey!~cpressey@45.136.108.105 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Mmm that is very interesting though > 1696517304 927366 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Listack14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117485&oldid=117032 5* 03McChuck 5* (+19) 10/* Listack: A symmetric, flat, stack-based, concatenative language */ < 1696517423 74377 :cpressey!~cpressey@45.136.108.105 PRIVMSG #esolangs :way over my head for the most part, but still, very interesting > 1696517497 219945 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:McChuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117486&oldid=104613 5* 03McChuck 5* (+14) 10 > 1696517562 714703 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:McChuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117487&oldid=117486 5* 03McChuck 5* (+99) 10 > 1696517646 942526 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:McChuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117488&oldid=117487 5* 03McChuck 5* (+14) 10 < 1696517749 458610 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname < 1696518153 734547 :razetime!~razetime@sd202148.hung.ab.nthu.edu.tw QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1696518179 493143 :razetime!~razetime@sd202148.hung.ab.nthu.edu.tw JOIN #esolangs razetime :realname > 1696519156 939221 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Beta14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117489&oldid=117480 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+69) 10Link, categories < 1696519459 312378 :Cale!~cale@cpe80d04ade0a03-cm80d04ade0a01.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1696520279 619639 :Cale!~cale@cpe80d04ade0a03-cm80d04ade0a01.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN #esolangs Cale :realname < 1696520592 328125 :razetime!~razetime@sd202148.hung.ab.nthu.edu.tw QUIT :Quit: Go back to your cringe 9 to 5. I'll be gaming. < 1696522333 445201 :cpressey!~cpressey@45.136.108.105 QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1696522979 158829 :wpa!uid568065@id-568065.helmsley.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs WeepingAngel :wpa < 1696524794 329619 :Koen!~Koen@2a01:e34:ec7c:30:c025:74ef:97cf:b3ba QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1696524869 614816 :Europe2048!~Europe204@fableness-hydrant.volia.net JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Europe2048 < 1696524927 676036 :Europe2048!~Europe204@fableness-hydrant.volia.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hi everyone! < 1696524992 524165 :wpa!uid568065@id-568065.helmsley.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :hi < 1696525169 346494 :Europe2048!~Europe204@fableness-hydrant.volia.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm adding escape sequences to my esolang, Deadfish++. < 1696526050 21159 :FreeFull!~freefull@46.205.214.226.nat.ftth.dynamic.t-mobile.pl JOIN #esolangs FreeFull :FreeFull < 1696526314 812376 :Europe2048!~Europe204@fableness-hydrant.volia.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hi FreeFull, check out my esolang, Deadfish++! < 1696526326 794481 :FreeFull!~freefull@46.205.214.226.nat.ftth.dynamic.t-mobile.pl PRIVMSG #esolangs :Alright, lemme have a look at it < 1696526446 498900 :FreeFull!~freefull@46.205.214.226.nat.ftth.dynamic.t-mobile.pl PRIVMSG #esolangs :That's a lot of commands < 1696526475 96214 :FreeFull!~freefull@46.205.214.226.nat.ftth.dynamic.t-mobile.pl PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hm, a good name for Deadfish with input would be Readfish < 1696526931 458779 :Europe2048!~Europe204@fableness-hydrant.volia.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :"Hm, a good name for Deadfish with input would be Readfish" Great idea! > 1696528109 437061 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Deadfish++14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117490&oldid=117455 5* 03Europe2048 5* (+1580) 10Added escape sequences and many more operations. < 1696528151 591626 :Koen!~Koen@2a01:e34:ec7c:30:95e3:8ed1:45d1:3e55 JOIN #esolangs * :Koen < 1696528436 47796 :Europe2048!~Europe204@fableness-hydrant.volia.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Welcome, Koen! Go try out my esolang: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Deadfish++ > 1696529191 19606 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Deadfish++14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117491&oldid=117490 5* 03Europe2048 5* (+476) 10Added errors. > 1696529323 365490 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Deadfish++14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117492&oldid=117491 5* 03Europe2048 5* (+70) 101 new error < 1696531382 912249 :Koen!~Koen@2a01:e34:ec7c:30:95e3:8ed1:45d1:3e55 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1696531408 807413 :Koen!~Koen@2a01:e34:ec7c:30:95e3:8ed1:45d1:3e55 JOIN #esolangs * :Koen < 1696531690 812739 :Koen!~Koen@2a01:e34:ec7c:30:95e3:8ed1:45d1:3e55 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1696532620 198805 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 QUIT :Quit: gone too far < 1696533513 566658 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn QUIT :Quit: leaving > 1696533701 248897 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Deadfish++14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117493&oldid=117492 5* 03Europe2048 5* (+29) 10 > 1696534709 649104 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Deadfish++14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117494&oldid=117493 5* 03Europe2048 5* (+6) 10 < 1696534719 527778 :Europe2048!~Europe204@fableness-hydrant.volia.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :No human is online... < 1696534879 832012 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I am on right now (and, I have seen Deadfish++) < 1696534935 419205 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Do you like Hero Hearts game? < 1696535243 554785 :Europe2048!~Europe204@fableness-hydrant.volia.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't even know what's Hero Hearts. < 1696535544 872827 :wpa!uid568065@id-568065.helmsley.irccloud.com QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1696535696 908811 :Europe2048!~Europe204@fableness-hydrant.volia.net QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1696536155 613006 :Europe2048!~Europe204@fableness-hydrant.volia.net JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Europe2048 < 1696536374 840540 :Europe2048!~Europe204@fableness-hydrant.volia.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :ANYONE? < 1696536876 867484 :Wryl-o-the-wisp!sid553797@user/wryl QUIT : < 1696537552 825118 :Europe2048!~Europe204@fableness-hydrant.volia.net QUIT :Quit: Client closed > 1696538434 570627 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Deadfish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117495&oldid=116836 5* 03Europe2048 5* (+180) 10Added Deadfish++ to interpreter list. < 1696538445 612604 :Europe2048!~Europe204@fableness-hydrant.volia.net JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Europe2048 < 1696540059 165318 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Good Night! < 1696540663 364467 :Europe2048!~Europe204@fableness-hydrant.volia.net QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1696540875 366639 :Koen!~Koen@2a01:e34:ec7c:30:a8a1:2b79:94ca:dfb JOIN #esolangs * :Koen < 1696543285 667647 :Koen!~Koen@2a01:e34:ec7c:30:a8a1:2b79:94ca:dfb QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1696543388 590706 :Koen!~Koen@2a01:e34:ec7c:30:c050:acd3:faf7:3a1 JOIN #esolangs * :Koen < 1696543676 592811 :Koen!~Koen@2a01:e34:ec7c:30:c050:acd3:faf7:3a1 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds > 1696544477 334004 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Deadfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117496&oldid=117495 5* 03Zzo38 5* (-169) 10The implementation in Free Hero Mesh can be done by (Control) to not needing placing objects in the level. < 1696545824 745212 :FreeFull!~freefull@46.205.214.226.nat.ftth.dynamic.t-mobile.pl QUIT : < 1696546377 272714 :[iovoid]!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid JOIN #esolangs iovoid :may exhibit nonlinear behavior < 1696546460 928029 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1696546479 307327 :[iovoid]!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid NICK :iovoid