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01:33:47 <esolangs> [[COVID-19]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117497&oldid=84059 * Lilchiky * (-7) Missing some formatting
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01:56:02 <esolangs> [[Bawkbawk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117498&oldid=117477 * Lilchiky * (-1) /* 99 bottles of beer */
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02:27:12 <esolangs> [[Bawkbawk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117499&oldid=117498 * Lilchiky * (+4) /* 99 bottles of beer */ +2
02:31:53 <esolangs> [[99 bottles of beer]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117500&oldid=117284 * Lilchiky * (+1125) /* List of implementations */ Adding [[Bawkbawk]] implementation
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02:35:18 <esolangs> [[Talk:Bawkbawk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117501&oldid=116799 * Lilchiky * (+9) 
02:37:25 <esolangs> [[Bawkbawk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117502&oldid=117499 * Lilchiky * (+23) /* Memory */
02:39:01 <esolangs> [[Bawkbawk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117503&oldid=117502 * Lilchiky * (+73) /* 99 bottles of beer */ aha
02:39:59 <esolangs> [[Bawkbawk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117504&oldid=117503 * Lilchiky * (-37) /* Text to Bawkbawk */ eehe
02:45:54 <esolangs> [[Bawkbawk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117505&oldid=117504 * Lilchiky * (+10) /* invisible */ visible
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06:26:37 <esolangs> [[For The Worthy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117506&oldid=116049 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+25) Category
06:27:52 <esolangs> [[Dropsort]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117507&oldid=44547 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+23) Category
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08:28:39 <cpressey> <cpressey> You can combine distributions in various ways, but you have to keep normalizing the result so that it sums to 1, and that is a buzzkill, algebraically speaking <------ I had a thought late last night that make me seriously question this.  Of course, I don't know if I should trust that thought.  But I need to investigate this again.
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08:48:59 <cpressey> Instead of making sure the result sums to 1 always, can we not let the result sum to whatever (positive) value n, and divide by n only when necessary?  And our operations that combine probabilities would also have to combine n's.
08:49:17 <cpressey> s/result/distribution/
08:59:07 <cpressey> The two operations I care about are AND or OR, naturally.  For AND you multiply probabilities.  To extend it to this should be easy: it's just multiplying fractions instead.  Really, just another way of looking at the numbers you're multiplying.
08:59:36 <cpressey> OR is a little more involved, I need to go look it up
09:01:48 <cpressey> P(A∪B)=P(A)+P(B)−P(A∩B)
09:04:06 <Taneb> That AND assumes the probabilities are independent
09:04:23 <cpressey> I'm happy with getting something that works with only independent probabilities
09:04:57 <Taneb> OK
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09:17:51 <cpressey> It sort of came from stuff I was doing with Markov chains, and every transition in a Markov chain is independent.
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09:45:25 <cpressey> OK, I see where my thinking is wrong
09:51:39 <cpressey> It doesn't matter whether you normalize the probability to 1 or whether you maintain it as a ratio.  It doesn't change the fact that there are a number of laws that multiplication of ratios doesn't obey.
10:00:56 <cpressey> If we arbitrarily say that AND is min and OR is max, then we get more laws, and we can form a distributive lattice, even.  But these operations don't correspond with anything in practice.
10:01:49 <cpressey> But I think that is not a showstopper for my purposes.  It would be nice if they corresponded with something in practice.  But it's not critical.  I'd rather have the lattice
10:13:22 <cpressey> This does raise the question for me, of what does it mean intuitively, to apply min and max to probabilities, which is a bit vexing.  But I can try to ignore that
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10:22:37 <cpressey> Well, OK, it means "as least as probable that", doesn't it?  Flipping a coin and getting heads is as least as probable as rolling a 1 on a 6-sided die.  min() and max() are, like, picking one of the two events based on a ranking, rather than combining them to form a new probability.
10:24:38 <cpressey> s/a ranking/their rank according to their probabilities/
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11:09:31 <esolangs> [[Bawkbawk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117508&oldid=117505 * Lilchiky * (+0) moving `see also` to the bottom
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11:10:50 <Europe2048> Hi everyone! If I made yet another IPA esolang, will it be cell-based or stack-based?
11:11:47 <Europe2048> Should it be turing-complete or not?
11:12:00 <Europe2048> Will it be based on another esolang or not?
11:19:22 <cpressey> Europe2048: In this context, soes IPA mean International Phonetic Alphabet?
11:19:28 <cpressey> *does
11:19:33 <Europe2048> Yes.
11:21:06 <cpressey> Europe2048: Thanks.  Re your questions, I don't know if I can give you any answer besides "Follow your heart".
11:21:52 <Europe2048> cpressey: So you can't give me an answer for yourself?
11:23:36 <cpressey> Well, I've never made an esolang based on IPA, so I can't say.  I did design one where every program element was pronounceable, years and years ago, but I shelved it.  I don't clearly remember what its semantics were, I'd have to dig it up and puzzle over it.
11:23:58 <Europe2048> Some other people made IPA esolangs too!
11:24:40 <cpressey> Actually, I believe one of the attributes of standardized FORTH was that every symbol had a standardized pronounciation
11:25:26 <cpressey> You don't want some programmers saying "dupp" and others saying "doop", do you.  Makes debugging over the telephone harder than it needs to be.
11:26:49 <Europe2048> To fix that problem, I'll make a sound for each example program.
11:30:30 <Europe2048> Also, I'll also make sure every program is pronouncable in my esolang.
12:05:27 <Europe2048> Anyone?!
12:09:50 <int-e> doop dee dup
12:38:24 <esolangs> [[Template:Quote]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=117509 * Lilchiky * (+32) shortcut4quotes
12:42:52 <esolangs> [[Bawkbawk]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117510&oldid=117508 * Lilchiky * (+757) /* Implementations */ a big discovery 
12:43:38 <esolangs> [[Bawkbawk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117511&oldid=117510 * Lilchiky * (-14) fixiy
12:46:16 <esolangs> [[Bawkbawk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117512&oldid=117511 * Lilchiky * (-9) small grammar mistake
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13:06:34 <Europe2048> Hello, int-e!
13:14:06 <Europe2048> ANYONE?!!?!?!??!?
13:18:53 <Taneb> Are cell-based and stack-based the only two options?
13:33:01 <razetime> not really.
13:33:14 <razetime> you'll find a lot more if you try a little bit.
13:33:41 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117513&oldid=117467 * None1 * (+324) /* Commands */
13:34:26 <Europe2048> Hi razetime, should I make an IPA esolang?
13:35:56 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117514&oldid=117513 * None1 * (+110) /* Commands */
13:36:58 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117515&oldid=117514 * None1 * (+56) /* Commands */
13:39:36 <razetime> you should make whatever you like.
13:40:18 <razetime> it doesn't matter if it's unoriginal. we have a lot to go around. just make something.
13:52:31 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117516&oldid=117515 * None1 * (+643) /* Commands */  Add examples
13:52:51 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117517&oldid=117516 * None1 * (+1) /* Examples */  Close open brackets
13:53:03 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117518&oldid=117517 * None1 * (+1) /* =Hello World */
13:53:48 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117519&oldid=117518 * None1 * (+105) 
13:54:23 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117520&oldid=117519 * None1 * (-1574) Moved out of sandbox
13:55:17 <esolangs> [[Wsad]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=117521 * None1 * (+1712) Created page with " {{bf}} wsad is a [[brainfuck]] derivative, that uses only 4 characters. ==Commands== Every command consists of two characters in {{cd|w, s, a, d}}, for example: {{cd|wa}} is equivalent to the {{cd|+}} command in brainfuck.  It is case insensitive. {|class=wikitable ! First 
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13:56:13 <esolangs> [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117522&oldid=117330 * None1 * (+11) /* W */
13:57:37 <esolangs> [[WCDA]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117523&oldid=76373 * None1 * (+23) 
13:59:54 <esolangs> [[User:None1]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117524&oldid=117184 * None1 * (+76) /* My Esolangs */
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14:07:35 <esolangs> [[4 esolang + Python polyglot]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117525&oldid=117073 * None1 * (+764) /* External Resources */
14:07:50 <esolangs> [[4 esolang + Python polyglot]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117526&oldid=117525 * None1 * (-1) /* External Resources */
14:12:31 <esolangs> [[User:None1/InDev]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117527&oldid=117520 * None1 * (+302) 
14:15:09 <esolangs> [[Wsad]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117528&oldid=117521 * None1 * (+13) 
14:15:57 <esolangs> [[Wsad]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117529&oldid=117528 * None1 * (+14) 
14:16:37 <esolangs> [[Wsad]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117530&oldid=117529 * None1 * (+2) 
14:17:48 <esolangs> [[User:XKCD Random Number]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117531&oldid=116446 * None1 * (+27) /* WeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeBasic */
14:20:25 <esolangs> [[User:XKCD Random Number]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117532&oldid=117531 * None1 * (+8666) /* JSFuck */
14:21:15 <esolangs> [[User:XKCD Random Number]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117533&oldid=117532 * None1 * (+45) /* JSFuck */
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15:46:43 <Europe2048> Hi everyone!
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15:57:26 <river> hello
16:04:49 <Europe2048> Hi river!
16:04:55 <Europe2048> Should I make an IPA esolang?
16:04:59 <river> yes
16:05:17 <Europe2048> Would it be cell-based, stack-based, or something else?
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16:55:44 <arseniiv> int-e: finally got my hands on Tres Undos, some funny moments there
16:58:24 <Europe2048> Hi, arseniiv!
16:58:43 <Europe2048> If I made an IPA esolang, would it be cell based, stack based, or something else?
16:59:45 <arseniiv> Europe2048: well if that’s IPA, it won’t be of any justice to not make it phonetics-based in some way. Stacks and tapes are too mundane for that
17:00:27 <Europe2048> So you're saying it should be cell-based?
17:00:44 <arseniiv> so one’d better investigate computational capabilities of human articulatory system, of course, why should it be cell-based
17:01:34 <Europe2048> So you're saying it should be stack-based?
17:01:43 <arseniiv> creaky voice can be a source of computational units, then oral-nasal distinction can be used for branching
17:03:29 <arseniiv> Europe2048: no it shouldn’t. What makes you believe that
17:03:31 <arseniiv> (I’m just curious a bit how it all works)
17:04:08 <arseniiv> also, lateral consonants are of utmost importance, moreso lateral affricates
17:04:10 <Europe2048> Just say cell- or stack-based already! I can't understand!
17:04:55 <arseniiv> Europe2048: I’m not keen on either, why should it be cell- or stack-based when it can be so much more, like monkey paw based
17:05:29 <arseniiv> or Yog-Sothoth based, I probably minced the name but that’s for the best
17:05:40 <arseniiv> the possibilities!
17:06:02 <Europe2048> Should it be based on conlangs or something?
17:07:17 <arseniiv> even better, Yog-Sothoth over a field of characteristic two. Can’t do spicier than that, char 2 makes all sorts of ridiculous nuisances
17:07:22 <arseniiv> or Ithkuil, yes
17:07:28 <arseniiv> (that’s a conlang)
17:07:44 <arseniiv> I’d be very pleased to look at an esolang which does Ithkuil a justice
17:08:55 <Europe2048> OK, anyways, tell me what should it be based on in particular.
17:11:30 <arseniiv> Ithkuil, bonus points for a quine which translates from Ithkuil as “this program is licenced under LGPL, MIT and CC0 and is a valid excuse to learn some Lojban in turn”
17:11:53 <arseniiv> but each valid program should be a valid Ithkuil sentence
17:12:14 <arseniiv> even more bonus points: each Ithkuil sentence is a valid program
17:12:22 <Europe2048> How can I do that? Ithkuil is literally the hardest language to learn!
17:12:38 <arseniiv> that’s where the challenge lies!
17:12:45 <arseniiv> maybe not the hardest though
17:14:05 <arseniiv> Ithkuil 3 should be simpler than Өłð Ɨṱħķüįɫ
17:14:30 <arseniiv> (which should not be mentioned by its true name either)
17:14:56 <Europe2048> Are there digraphs in New Ithkuil (2023)
17:14:58 <Europe2048> ?
17:15:39 <arseniiv> Europe2048: don’t know, sorry
17:16:34 <Europe2048> I found out that no.
17:18:28 <Europe2048> Anyways, do you mean to make an Ithkuil language?
17:41:22 <arseniiv> Europe2048: using valid Ithkuil grammar but endowing it with computational semantics, hopefully somehow related to what the original constructs mean
17:42:19 <Europe2048> "valid Ithkuil grammar" How the heck would I do that?
17:47:52 <esolangs> [[Rotary]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117534&oldid=43218 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+1380) Add examples and category, link to interpreter
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20:00:35 <esolangs> [[Bukkake]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117536&oldid=117535 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+1) /* Further reading */ Category
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20:34:09 <b_jonas> "Should it be based on conlangs or something?" => I would say no, there are already too many of those
20:34:34 <Europe2048> Hi b_jonas!
20:34:51 <Europe2048> Should I make an IPA esolang? If yes, would it be cell-based or stack-based?
20:37:45 <b_jonas> sure, but probably only if you're at least drinking age
20:38:11 <Europe2048> I'm 9...
20:38:21 <Europe2048> But I can pronounce many IPA sounds.
20:40:26 <b_jonas> do not brew ale if you are younger than drinking age. it could get you into trouble.
20:41:07 <Europe2048> "brew ale" What's ale?
20:41:49 <b_jonas> ale is alcoholic drink with low alcohol content, provided it's not brewed from grapes (because then it's called wine) or cereal (because then it's called beer instead)
20:42:12 <Europe2048> Don't you know that IPA is International Phonetic Alphabet?
20:42:27 <b_jonas> or honey (because then it's called mead instead). English is weird, why do you need so many names for spirits?
20:42:38 <b_jonas> Europe2048: no, IPA is a type of ales
20:43:08 <Europe2048> That's your opinion.
20:43:26 <Europe2048> Also, IPA for International Phonetic Alphabet is more widely used.
20:43:40 <Europe2048> I meant this definition when I said "I can pronounce many IPA sounds.".
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21:38:56 <Europe2048> Hi everyone!
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22:18:05 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * MagmaMcFry *  New user account
22:21:48 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117537&oldid=117401 * MagmaMcFry * (+130) o/
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22:23:21 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117538&oldid=117537 * MagmaMcFry * (+69) uh i copied the nowiki tags by accident
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