< 1697158428 414593 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1697158486 358638 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord > 1697159078 540418 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07^!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117820&oldid=117776 5* 03Ninesquared81 5* (+774) 10/* Examples */ > 1697159391 269353 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages (nonalphabetic and A-M)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117821&oldid=117131 5* 03McChuck 5* (+44) 10Listack > 1697159543 581340 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages (nonalphabetic and A-M)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117822&oldid=117821 5* 03McChuck 5* (+78) 10/* Listack */ > 1697159589 349730 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages (nonalphabetic and A-M)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117823&oldid=117822 5* 03McChuck 5* (+32) 10/* Listack */ < 1697160506 566941 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: Is it PuzzleScript? < 1697160572 931147 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :No, it is not PuzzleScript. < 1697160971 362943 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I had made up a different one, which in my opinion is much better in many ways, although it could be arguable. < 1697161775 579100 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1697162434 622466 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo JOIN #esolangs craigo :realname > 1697163077 229161 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07^!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117824&oldid=117820 5* 03Ninesquared81 5* (+8) 10/* Get number */ < 1697164441 391785 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Although, different programs have their own advantages and disadvantages, anyways.) < 1697165088 483759 :awewsomegamer!~awewsomeg@S0106484bd46b6d3d.vn.shawcable.net JOIN #esolangs * :awewsomegamer < 1697167258 613913 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-82-205.as13285.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds > 1697167370 948141 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Funge-9814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117825&oldid=107314 5* 03BoundedBeans 5* (+2171) 10Fixed rcfunge links < 1697169091 612839 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1697170698 724875 :awewsomegamer!~awewsomeg@S0106484bd46b6d3d.vn.shawcable.net QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 4.0.5 < 1697171311 904386 :simcop2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1697171312 94256 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1697171343 587142 :simcop2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 JOIN #esolangs simcop2387 :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1697171664 576312 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot JOIN #esolangs perlbot :ZNC - https://znc.in > 1697173847 830023 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07MemPanic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117826&oldid=70862 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+26) 10Wayback > 1697174221 36250 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Multiprogramming14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117827&oldid=69312 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+28) 10Wayback > 1697174624 154496 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07YoptaScript14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117828&oldid=110150 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+124) 10Categories > 1697174690 927071 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117829&oldid=117817 5* 03None1 5* (+174) 10/* Is Category:Unimplemented really neccessarry? */ > 1697175150 737448 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07!!Fuck Python interpreter14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117830&oldid=113539 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+34) 10Link, category > 1697175458 262184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117831&oldid=117829 5* 03None1 5* (+85) 10/* Is Category:Unimplemented really neccessarry? */ > 1697176035 522384 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07lang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117832&oldid=117796 5* 03None1 5* (+29) 10/* Specs */ > 1697176073 607962 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07No-code esolang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117833&oldid=115873 5* 03None1 5* (+57) 10 > 1697176886 813569 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07lang14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117834&oldid=117832 5* 03None1 5* (+31) 10/* Specs */ < 1697177368 30060 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 JOIN #esolangs arseniiv :the chaotic arseniiv < 1697177895 495650 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 PRIVMSG #esolangs :holá > 1697178286 361412 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=117835 5* 03None1 5* (+410) 10Created page with "Brainfuck is an esolang invented by [[User:None1]], it is very stupid. ==Commands== The only valid program - Brainfuck increases the accumulator. ==Examples== ===Increase the accumulator=== Brainfuck ==Interpreter== ===[[Python]]=== a,x=input(),0 if a==' > 1697178763 676756 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117836&oldid=117835 5* 03None1 5* (+21) 10/* Interpreter */ < 1697178834 615806 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-82-205.as13285.net JOIN #esolangs cpressey :[https://web.libera.chat] cpressey > 1697178915 115765 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117837&oldid=117761 5* 03None1 5* (+64) 10/* General languages */ > 1697178944 586435 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117838&oldid=117766 5* 03None1 5* (+64) 10/* My Esolangs */ > 1697178976 863533 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117839&oldid=117836 5* 03None1 5* (+32) 10 > 1697179137 137326 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117840&oldid=117839 5* 03None1 5* (+119) 10 > 1697179247 196666 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07This esolang is a brainfuck derivative14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117841&oldid=117788 5* 03None1 5* (+17) 10/* Interpreter */ > 1697179833 749049 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Chefs Kiss14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117842&oldid=117809 5* 03None1 5* (+11) 10 < 1697180741 385662 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.149.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN #esolangs arseniiv :the chaotic arseniiv < 1697180762 498998 :shikhin!~shikhin@2607:5300:60:36::1 CHGHOST ~shikhin :offtopia/offtopian < 1697180878 45335 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1697181855 521738 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-82-205.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: I once started designing a language where the domain objects were tabletop game elements (cards, dice, counters, ...) < 1697181950 270712 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-82-205.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :And then the programs would've been instructions that the players followed, like "If the card on the top of the discard pile is a queen, move the yetllow counter to the'"go' square" < 1697181991 583402 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-82-205.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :I never finished it because I couldn't think of a satisfying way to make it TC given that the number of objects on the table would be finite < 1697182013 997986 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :. o O ( What if the card on the top of the discard pile is a pawn... ) < 1697182467 655953 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-82-205.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :An unsatisfying way to make it TC: say there can be a board with an infinite number of numbered squares. < 1697182562 215184 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-82-205.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :This leads me to think, it's not enough to have an infinite set of something.  All the things in the set have to stand in relation to one another < 1697182598 727896 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :. o O ( Ooh what if the discard pile is a Jenga tower... and you have MtG-like abilities to recover, well, blocks from the discard pile, but only if you manage to get it without knocking over the tower... ) < 1697182657 209030 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(not programming related... just following the idea of having non-cards on a discard pile, which can lead to questionable stability.) < 1697183249 417114 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-82-205.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: I eventually got the queen/pawn joke, but "MtG-like abilities to recover blocks" is quite beyond me -- but then, I don't MtG. < 1697183478 83610 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esolangs :I _think_ you might be able to get Turing completeness in the same way MtG is claimed to achieve it, by abusing the action stack (don't quote me on this) < 1697183488 102156 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :The discard pile in MtG is called the graveyard (because cards that represented killed monsters go there), and there are some spells that get cards back from the graveyard into your hand or into play. (There's also a concept of removing a card from game completely.) < 1697183507 397520 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :cpressey: and I used "block" because Jenga doesn't have cards. < 1697184628 407338 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn JOIN #esolangs toonn :Unknown < 1697184803 628741 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: you mean https://scryfall.com/card/und/2/awol ? < 1697184868 458167 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I think you read more into "completely" than I intended :P < 1697184926 673637 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ante zone? chaos confetti? < 1697184933 145517 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hehe < 1697184987 397601 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :There's also this kind of permanent "removal": https://scryfall.com/card/ugl/70/blacker-lotus < 1697185024 813021 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-82-205.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :I remember being impressed by this distinction In a very old D&D game for 8-bit computers, where characters could be Conscious, Unconscious, Dead or Gone < 1697185039 412522 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-82-205.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :If they were Gone they couldn't be resurrected < 1697185599 282423 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: yes, that's the chaos confetti one < 1697185644 398341 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah < 1697185670 133022 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :cpressey: yeah, some D&D variants have an extra step, because if you have at least a small part of the body then it's easier to resurrect the dead, and if they died only a few times ago then it's even easier and more importantly they might not even lose a level from the resurrection then < 1697185727 13058 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"a few times ago" is kind of cute too < 1697185733 967071 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(turns, I guess) < 1697185789 830549 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oops, a few turns ago < 1697185856 698399 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and these days there are all sorts of programs, like email clients, that have the concept of deleting an object to the trashcan or recycle bin, and deleting it completely so it's not even in the trashcan < 1697185915 973483 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, and I think D&D has a weird three-way distinction between conscious with positive hitpoints, unconscious on zero hitpoint, and unconscious on negative hit points < 1697188015 326984 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1697188976 349134 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1697189672 601174 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-82-205.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :It should make a weird two-way distinction on having +0 hit points and having -0 hit points too.  I will write Wizards of the Coast a strongly-worded letter on this matter. < 1697189711 788022 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-82-205.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :In other news, I have written a (not-actually-)Scheme to (not-actually-)JavaScript compiler, in Lua < 1697189747 146304 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-82-205.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's (not-actually-), but it's quite close. < 1697189800 374451 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :. o O ( At least the Lua is real. ) < 1697190067 347752 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1697190198 475104 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-82-205.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :I realize a lot of my language ideas aren't weird enough to be "esolangs" anymore, but they're too weird for the "proglangdesign" channel.  (Which seems to be more about pet languages and complaining about systems issues, anyway.) < 1697190268 574796 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-82-205.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1697190797 613206 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-83-134.as13285.net JOIN #esolangs cpressey :[https://web.libera.chat] cpressey < 1697191314 163728 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas < 1697191338 964951 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, and D&D creatures can also have the status where they died of old age or their soul is destroyed so even True Resurrection can't fix them < 1697191403 4434 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :apparently there's another condition, True Resurrection can't resurrect creatures who have been dead for longer than 10 years. odd. < 1697191441 627357 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :probably there so you don't try to resurrect famous people who died like fifty years ago < 1697191905 191316 :Thelie!~Thelie@2a03:2260:300c:400:61bd:fe2e:1f3c:b90a JOIN #esolangs Thelie :Thelie < 1697193052 194768 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-83-134.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1697193712 614702 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-84-229.as13285.net JOIN #esolangs cpressey :[https://web.libera.chat] cpressey < 1697193959 327871 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-84-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :I found a very interesting quote about Lisp in a book about Modula-3: < 1697193959 827612 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-84-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :"Lisp is the hybrid of the lambda calculus and the theory of a pairing function" < 1697193993 226205 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-84-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :I wouldn't but it that way exactly, myself, but it's an interesting take < 1697193996 362032 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-84-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :*put < 1697194259 961331 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot, why does worm not rhyme with dorm? < 1697194429 210656 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-84-229.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot's not here, man < 1697194700 102893 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :sword doesn't rhyme with word either > 1697194835 989128 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Listack14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117843&oldid=117485 5* 03McChuck 5* (+125) 10/* Advanced Control Flow */ < 1697194975 839689 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :That sword alone can't stop. < 1697195033 762527 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Why is it that 'prospect', 'prospective' and 'perspective' are all words, but 'perspect' is not. < 1697195138 860329 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: because some idiot brand named plexiglass as perspex and perspect conflicts with that > 1697196480 299548 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hello++14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117844&oldid=94015 5* 03Harumafuji Kohei 5* (+213) 10I hope this works < 1697197896 895866 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-84-229.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1697197970 108479 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that said, I think it's fine if you use "perspect" as a verb instead of "project perspectively" < 1697198230 749760 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1697198375 615071 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net JOIN #esolangs cpressey :[https://web.libera.chat] cpressey < 1697198439 73050 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1697198762 372849 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.149.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds > 1697199240 718816 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Harumafuji Kohei14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=117845 5* 03Harumafuji Kohei 5* (+23) 10ok < 1697199564 377110 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 JOIN #esolangs arseniiv :the chaotic arseniiv < 1697199755 471744 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs : An unsatisfying way to make it TC: say there can be a board with an infinite number of numbered squares. => what about unbounded card piles? < 1697200177 781707 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :arseniiv_: That's slightly better, but it would need an unbounded card deck.  I play the 18,091,716 of Clubs. < 1697200300 215504 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Maybe the positions between objects could be measured in real numbers with unlimited precision, and those distances... nah, see, tabletop games are supposed to abstract things like that away.  They're more topological than geometrical. < 1697200366 861428 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esolangs :Not only are tabletops topological, they're often discrete < 1697200441 293974 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 NICK :arseniiv < 1697200501 643148 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :cpressey: why are unbounded card ranks needed? Like, one can encode something just in the sequence of cards stacked < 1697200516 100594 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :arseniiv: OK, true. < 1697200537 928255 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :. o O ( But card counters are much cooler. ) < 1697200627 70921 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :You still need an unbounded number of cards though, that was my sticking point.  For whatever reason I was thinking of it very much in concrete terms.  And no one could afford that many cards. (This was all many years ago.) < 1697200688 742479 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1697200715 42594 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Maybe cards could be like "fuel" that's used to ensure computations terminate in some contexts < 1697200744 564908 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I'd be less concerned with it being TC or not these days.) < 1697200768 699275 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1697201176 197375 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :cpressey: no, you'd just have an unbounded number of copies of a finite number of different cards, like as many Forests as the players need < 1697201221 544500 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it wouldn't be the 18091716 of clubs, unless perhaps you want to represent that with an ace of clubs with 18091715 +1 counters on it < 1697201255 637093 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :btw on fungot not being available: why? < 1697201295 396916 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :something about fizzie not wanting to troubleshoot something about identd, or something < 1697201310 631583 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :arseniiv: he is implemented in an esoteric language and so is hard to change < 1697201312 288210 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :or maybe I'm confusing that with another bot < 1697201325 176641 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: Docker < 1697201331 981110 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Docker is the solution to everything < 1697201386 253720 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Actually, I had a bot here once too < 1697201434 886122 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Adapting it to work with "ircs" was something I had to research, but in the end, not black magic or anything < 1697201447 410721 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :one of my friends thinks the same about Docker; also another one asks right now what’s a pairing function. I think it’s probably that Cantor ℕ × ℕ → ℕ bijection? < 1697201514 665458 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: ah, I probably get it now, libera.chat expects this new more secure login < 1697201555 591265 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :arseniiv: Yes, Cantor, and later others: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pairing_function  -- I think in that book they were talking more abstractly, about cons cells < 1697201593 123566 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :thanks I’ll relay! < 1697201694 967566 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :now that the topic of board games giving rise to esolangs was established, it occurred to me if one could somehow make a game with entities forming an inductive data type (or an inductive family of types) < 1697201731 683773 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :something less mundane like trees of some kind < 1697201852 15129 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"no one could afford that many cards" => the M:tG solution to this is threefold. (1) normally you need to own a physical copy of a card manufactured by Wizards if you want to use it in a tournament-legal game, even if you use a proxy to represent that card in game instead. a card moved to a zone is an object. you can't create cards or add new cards < 1697201852 521693 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :during tournament-legal gameplay, only move cards that are already in the game or in the sideboard, but when the rules want to create a new object regardless, it instructs you to create a token or a copy of a spell. tokens and copies of spells don't have an underlying card that they reference, and so an unlimited number of them can be created < 1697201853 14996 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :during the game without owning cards that you buy from M:tG. (2) the number of cards in your deck is bounded. the rules don't give a specific number, but they say that the deck should be small enough that one person can shuffle it. that's a small enough limit that I have more (cheap) cards than I could put in a deck. (3) in limited tournaments, the < 1697201853 517227 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :tournament organizer must provide an unlimited number of the five eternal basic lands, and during deckbuilding you can add as many of them into your deck. (you may have to return the lands to the organizer afterwards of course). < 1697202011 747619 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :arseniiv: hard to be sure without context, but I think no, that's just the cons function that makes an ordered pair, where the car of the resulting pair is the first argument of the function, and the cdr of the resulting pari is the second argument to the function. this is useful only in a language that has multi-argument functions (or at least < 1697202012 271232 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :curried ones) < 1697202116 366390 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :arseniiv: doesn't basically any discrete but potentially infinite game work with inductive types? < 1697202117 318003 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: might be this too, yeah < 1697202162 404344 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs : doesn't basically any discrete but potentially infinite game work with inductive types? => I mean, in a sufficiently transparent way. A puny deck of cards doesn’t feel like a value of an inductive type! > 1697202173 998361 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Miser14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117846&oldid=113132 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (+179) 10Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the Miser programming language on GitHub, changed the category tag Unimplemented to Implemented, and supplemented the category 2023. < 1697202246 678340 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :arseniiv: sure, but this is about the game state, not just a deck of cards packed away < 1697202291 567211 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :some games like Poker have a very simple type for game states, but games like M:tG have ridiculously complicated ones < 1697202330 910993 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: hmmmmmm. But again, the whole state feels like too much too, yeah your note about M:tG shows this exactly < 1697202363 402524 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what I intended is for players to manipulate data like they manipulate single cards, pieces and other things < 1697202380 319871 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :of course a lot of it is hard to manipulate freely in game, so attempts for simulations with M:tG: like the ones ais523 does usually use very restricted subsets of the states < 1697202398 963335 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this would probably be clumsy in most cases, of course, with practicality and interestingness being the heart of the question < 1697202488 982229 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :btw I sometimes try to invent algebraic-y combinatory decks of cards which would allow interesting simple games with that deck (something like what was done with Set, but Set is too simple) > 1697202544 32354 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Miser14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117847&oldid=117846 5* 03None1 5* (+25) 10/* Interpreter */ < 1697202580 332172 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Set is a bounded game (if the number of players is bounded at least), I specifically said unbounded games to avoid that sort of thign < 1697202598 694169 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I had a peculiar result with Möbius like ranks which allow for there to be ranks that are opposite to each other, or for each rank there to be two opposites, depending on where do we try to draw a prism or antiprism on a Möbius strip < 1697202625 306838 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah this is not about Turing-complete games and inductive types, I digressed < 1697202921 916104 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :arseniiv: Yeah, the problem was/is that it only accepts "admin" commands with a specific "user@cloak" suffix, and due to some inexplicable indentd breakage I'm now "~user@cloak" instead, so it refuses to obey me and join the channel. < 1697202925 853791 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :It'd be quite easy to just patch that ~ in there, but I wanted to fix that identd situation, just haven't gotten around to it. < 1697203086 33124 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a JOIN #esolangs fungot :fungot-0.1 < 1697203096 674738 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I just added the ~.) < 1697203110 436757 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot: How was your extended vacation off the channel? < 1697203111 453922 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: good lord, mr fnord has gained... uh... something warp flux thingy worked. answer: " quite well, the u of o dominates eugene or, but, which one shows more idle time? < 1697203120 856598 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :interesting < 1697203126 555431 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Maybe a little more incoherent than normal. < 1697203190 224673 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :“mr fnord” is interesting too, though it should be by all means the expected state transition > 1697203192 341267 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None1/InDev14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117848&oldid=117602 5* 03None1 5* (+371) 10 < 1697203192 494561 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`style < 1697203194 423858 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :style? No such file or directory < 1697203202 132790 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`prefix < 1697203203 214651 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :prefix? No such file or directory < 1697203205 491267 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :If it was written in a proper language I'd probably just make it do the IRCv3 `account-tag` thing for command authentication. < 1697203207 106366 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :`prefixes < 1697203208 951268 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :uh my poor memory < 1697203209 572198 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? or > , thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =, velik \. < 1697203212 592959 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :thanks < 1697203220 297119 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :^style < 1697203220 317733 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld elon enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp ukparl youtube < 1697203230 488425 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hm what is the current one < 1697203236 18741 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :"irc" < 1697203240 506479 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :That's why there's a * next to it. < 1697203251 314106 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :(A very easy-to-miss *.) < 1697203267 772968 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah ah now I see; uh < 1697203288 221313 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I thought it was one of parliaments < 1697203314 497825 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :though then mr fnord is not as expected < 1697203320 120226 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :They may not talk that much about warp flux thingies in the parliaments. < 1697203329 202845 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Although who knows, maybe they do. < 1697203341 282103 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :^style ukparl < 1697203341 302613 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :Selected style: ukparl (UK Parliament debates from brexit referendum to late 2018) < 1697203341 495512 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :reasonable < 1697203350 58292 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I overlooked that part too < 1697203354 597337 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot: What do you think of the tax rate nowadays? < 1697203355 601029 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: government new clause 1. one interesting point from the hon. and learned friend the minister for that. i have an opportunity to make the government think of themselves as dictators, but < 1697203381 103748 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it’s so homey < 1697203495 60082 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot: I think someone told me that freezing the income tax bands like they did instead of updating them in line with inflation is in fact effectively a rather large tax increase, just in a more sneaky fashion. What do you think about that? < 1697203495 907155 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: he has the better cakes, i may, from september, we have the right to the protection of a british citizen, to whom governments should have a direct opportunity to do the right things, local developers to do precisely that. < 1697203516 956910 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh, well, if we get the better cakes I guess it's worth it. > 1697203681 924335 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None1/InDev14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117849&oldid=117848 5* 03None1 5* (+319) 10 < 1697203710 39171 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :🎂 > 1697203765 342154 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None1/InDev14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117850&oldid=117849 5* 03None1 5* (+69) 10/* I/O */ > 1697203795 776772 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None1/InDev14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117851&oldid=117850 5* 03None1 5* (+4) 10 < 1697203806 105281 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`? fungot < 1697203806 251293 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: to the hon. and learned friend the member for leeds north through the northern ireland < 1697203808 205539 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot is our beloved channel mascot and voice of reason. > 1697203813 942632 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:/w/wiki/index.php/Talk:index.php/Main page14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117852&oldid=116181 5* 03PaxtonPenguin 5* (+103) 10 < 1697203818 156631 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :<3 > 1697203845 654241 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None1/InDev14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117853&oldid=117851 5* 03None1 5* (+66) 10/* Commands */ < 1697203919 95794 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :arseniiv: would you count Hercules and the hydra as a game? it works on trees. http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2008-03-27.1537.html http://www.madore.org/~david/weblog/d.2008-03-16.1534.ordinaux-et-hydres.html#d.2008-03-16.1534 http://www.madore.org/~david/math/hydra0.xhtml http://www.madore.org/~david/math/hydra.xhtml (these are two < 1697203919 593799 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :different games, the hydra and the dire hydra) > 1697203929 530207 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Chefs Kiss14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117854&oldid=117842 5* 03PaxtonPenguin 5* (+18) 10 < 1697203934 885279 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :or do the lambda crocodiles count as a game? < 1697203967 820518 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lambda crocodiles sound familiar hmm < 1697204001 675249 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :http://worrydream.com/AlligatorEggs/ explicitly calls it a game, but of course they might be using that word differently from what youw ant < 1697204056 577372 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1697204112 903344 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait, fungot returned? hi fungot < 1697204113 280059 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: i have to be clear, the government i have nothing good going fnord and grieving families to have the best of the public sector. > 1697204114 982041 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07AMONGUSISABIGSUSSYBAKAHAHAHAHAHATHISLANGUAGEISREALLYCOOLPLEASEUSEITMYLIFEDEPENDSONITORELSEPLSPLSPLSPLSPLSPLSPLSkahyghdfhm14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117855&oldid=114132 5* 03PaxtonPenguin 5* (+17) 10 < 1697204122 920681 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`? prefixes < 1697204124 986561 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Bot prefixes: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? or > , thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =, velik \. < 1697204218 830229 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :arseniiv: According to WP the game of Nim has been adaptedto graphs ("The starting board is a disconnected graph, and players take turns to remove adjacent vertices." is all it says though?)  So I wonder if it could be adapted to inductive types.  I don't know. < 1697204226 528019 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :perlbot prefixes < 1697204226 763861 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: fungot ^, HackEso `, EgoBot !, lambdabot @ or ? or > , thutubot +, metasepia ~, idris-bot ( , jconn ) , j-bot [ , bfbot =. < 1697204281 74187 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 PRIVMSG #esolangs :cpressey: oh huh < 1697204298 936761 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :If we get a ,-prefixed bot, it'll look a little confusing in that list, no matter whether it's `..., commabot ,, ...` or `..., commabot , , ...`. < 1697204347 130200 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot, why does worm not rhyme with dorm? int-e wanted to know < 1697204347 441007 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: is the hon. and learned friend the member for glasgow north, for the scottish government the powers to the tenant to the county, the proud and justified. it and the associated secretary of states and government < 1697204367 1269 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I've been thinking of (re)using ! for `esolangs` if it ever gets any functionality that's user-triggerable, like logsearching or something.) < 1697204367 727397 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot: When will Unicode become Turing complete? < 1697204368 321092 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: i have a number, has a capacity of about 690 people in my local police, i have to make a public statement, which may have a sustained and at what amazon, we are a country of only 5.5 million. through the bill, < 1697204380 550507 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot, have you ever decried anything? < 1697204380 786486 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: to fnord part of the uk, creating a new, integrated and fully support the government, < 1697204391 470308 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot, is a "weatherspoon" the propeller thing under a weathercock that spins to show how fast the wind is? > 1697204394 723087 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PaxtonPenguin14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117856&oldid=117807 5* 03PaxtonPenguin 5* (+23) 10Me when < 1697204408 407107 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's a good list of things to decry tbh < 1697204432 618497 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :arseniiv: I very much do not understand most of the things in type theory.  I'm not sure if I want to go down that road or not. < 1697204909 988971 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: my plan, if I ever again make a queryable IRC bot (that doesn't just take over a full channel and answer there) is to again respond to their irc nick, but also have six three-character shortcuts for the six most frequent commands, namely -0= -=0 0-= 0=- =-0 =0- ; unless it's a bot that implements Niagara, in which case the shortcut is the < 1697204910 489312 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :three-character waterfall ~|_ or the shorter two-character waterfall ~| for brevity < 1697204975 982201 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :single-character prefixes are annoying, HackEso and lambdabot both get triggered by accident two often < 1697204983 841867 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :even when it's two characters but the second is space < 1697205069 137535 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and yes, I'm saying that despite that I first programmed jevalbot to be triggerable by a single character plus space, and then, when someone asked, I added a setting to make the space optional, and that option was used for whatever instance used ) as its invocation shortcut > 1697205384 976441 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117857&oldid=117191 5* 03None1 5* (+246) 10/* Delete a page */ new section < 1697205418 922704 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1697205577 614686 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net JOIN #esolangs cpressey :[https://web.libera.chat] cpressey > 1697205795 720792 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117858&oldid=117838 5* 03None1 5* (+318) 10/* My projects about esolangs */ > 1697205914 996364 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117859&oldid=117858 5* 03None1 5* (+34) 10/* jitbf */ > 1697206009 275838 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117860&oldid=117859 5* 03None1 5* (+0) 10/* jitbf */ WTF Jul. is July not June > 1697206048 97410 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117861&oldid=117860 5* 03None1 5* (+1) 10/* jitbf */ > 1697206150 204365 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117862&oldid=117742 5* 03Lilchiky 5* (+169) 10/* */ > 1697206165 765468 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:/w/wiki/index.php/Talk:index.php/Main page14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117863&oldid=117852 5* 03None1 5* (+84) 10/* Commands */ > 1697206478 705131 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:/w/wiki/index.php/Talk:index.php/Main page14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117864&oldid=117863 5* 03None1 5* (+217) 10/* Commands */ > 1697206500 7907 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:/w/wiki/index.php/Talk:index.php/Main page14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117865&oldid=117864 5* 03None1 5* (+0) 10/* Commands */ > 1697206572 28254 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:/w/wiki/index.php/Talk:index.php/Main page14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117866&oldid=117865 5* 03None1 5* (-11) 10/* Commands */ > 1697206733 14598 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117867&oldid=117862 5* 03None1 5* (+373) 10/* Recursion */ > 1697207376 321092 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Category:Accumulator-based14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117868&oldid=116430 5* 03Lilchiky 5* (+85) 10adding onto this > 1697207440 863670 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bawkbawk14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117869&oldid=117258 5* 03Lilchiky 5* (+31) 10a new cat > 1697207460 833484 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Category:Accumulator-based14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117870&oldid=117868 5* 03Lilchiky 5* (-1) 10 < 1697208364 395631 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :"Inductive types usually come with a function to prove properties about them." (WP again) -- I dunno about "usually" -- I don't know what you'd call an inductive type that doesn't support proof by induction -- isn't that just a recursive type? < 1697209110 91071 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1697209148 159450 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas > 1697209181 390399 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Chefs Kiss14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117871&oldid=117854 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+114) 10Stub, categories < 1697209313 63288 :Thelie!~Thelie@2a03:2260:300c:400:61bd:fe2e:1f3c:b90a QUIT :Remote host closed the connection > 1697209499 731358 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:B jonas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117872&oldid=112607 5* 03B jonas 5* (+216) 10/* Todo */ pointer machine < 1697209746 808457 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname < 1697210347 870323 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1697211124 392136 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1697211358 106654 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 JOIN #esolangs arseniiv :the chaotic arseniiv < 1697211395 583533 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah, craziness!  I just discovered by accident that L. C. Paulson has a blog on GitHub: https://lawrencecpaulson.github.io/ < 1697211790 326721 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :nice > 1697212202 660762 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Swapfuck/Implementation14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117873&oldid=86422 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+4) 10Back, category < 1697212289 212140 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://quoteme.github.io/posts/sheaves_in_minecraft < 1697212464 542377 :Cale!~cale@cpe80d04ade0a03-cm80d04ade0a01.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN #esolangs Cale :realname < 1697213030 698081 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :OK I *kind of* followed that :) > 1697213164 709791 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Arraything14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117874&oldid=117819 5* 03PaxtonPenguin 5* (+186) 10 > 1697213174 675968 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Arraything14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117875&oldid=117874 5* 03PaxtonPenguin 5* (+1) 10 > 1697213202 241629 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Arraything14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117876&oldid=117875 5* 03PaxtonPenguin 5* (+6) 10 < 1697213244 233716 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Client closed > 1697213303 255557 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Parrot14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117877&oldid=11377 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+23) 10Category < 1697213558 612889 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net JOIN #esolangs cpressey :[https://web.libera.chat] cpressey < 1697214181 686913 :Franciman!~Franciman@mx1.fracta.dev PART #esolangs :WeeChat 3.8 < 1697214694 782975 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1697217026 753391 :Thelie!~Thelie@2a03:2260:300c:400:61bd:fe2e:1f3c:b90a JOIN #esolangs Thelie :Thelie < 1697218243 637400 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo JOIN #esolangs craigo :realname < 1697218258 247665 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1697219055 110283 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1697221001 877331 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo JOIN #esolangs craigo :realname > 1697221818 589311 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5* 10deleted "[[02Python program which generates code that prints the certain text10]]" > 1697221901 95764 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117878&oldid=117857 5* 03Ais523 5* (+134) 10/* Delete a page */ deleted < 1697222003 273332 :Thelie!~Thelie@2a03:2260:300c:400:61bd:fe2e:1f3c:b90a QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1697222136 285235 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name) < 1697222187 644995 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: there's a TCness construction for Magic: the Gathering where the only game object you need unlimited quantities of is +1/+1 counters (although the program is represented by tokens, you only need finitely many of them to represent any given program) < 1697222213 875664 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although, the current "best" (=simplest and most flexible) construction stores data in the quantity of tokens and in the amount of damage marked on them, so needs arbitrarily many tokens < 1697222285 120467 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :incidentally, there's no rule saying that the five land-typed-and-non-snow basic lands have to be always available – they do have to keep being reprinted in order to remain legal in Standard < 1697222448 260989 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: isn't there now a new rule that you can replace a card in your deck with one of the five basic lands in *constructed* if you registered with a deck but it turns out you can't play one of your cards because the physical card is damaged or some similar problem? < 1697222526 383481 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't think that rule's new, I remember it from the first time I looked at the tournament rules < 1697222549 669198 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I'm not sure specifically which lands it allows < 1697222566 566400 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 JOIN #esolangs arseniiv :the chaotic arseniiv < 1697222596 695954 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Netrunner also has a rule allowing cards to be replaced in order to make a deck legal, but the prescribed replacement cards actually don't exist in the game < 1697222640 296513 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :e.g. if your deck doesn't have enough agenda points, you have to replace cards with vanilla 4/2 agendas until you have enough, but there are no vanilla 4/2 agendas printed < 1697222643 648141 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what do you mean by "don't exist in the game"? < 1697222648 848772 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think the idea is that you proxy one < 1697222655 262934 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I see < 1697222710 474785 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(a vanilla 4/2 agenda would be really bad and numerous cards are strictly better than it – I think the intention is for the replacement card to be worse than any card you might play intentionally) < 1697222784 555014 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think I've seen something like that in casual to define how goldfishing work. My preference is that the goldfish player has a deck of 60 cards of Forest (or whatever number of cards is normal in the format); but other people prefer 60 cards with no type or mana cost < 1697222810 979899 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that got updated to 60 Wastes at one point, because the basic land types on the opponents' lands ended up mattering sometimes < 1697222824 249903 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :* at some point < 1697222862 482333 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and, well, it's more symmetrical to pick the basic land that isn't part of a cycle < 1697222987 621023 :Europe2048!~Europe204@fableness-hydrant.volia.net JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Europe2048 < 1697222997 609548 :Europe2048!~Europe204@fableness-hydrant.volia.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hi everyone! < 1697223030 590399 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I think the principled solution would be to use Plains because there are almost no creatures with plainswalk; I prefer Forests, but if I play a deck with cards with forestwalk then I would use Plains instead < 1697223031 297781 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this reminds me, I proved a language Turing-complete for a team of people working on M:tG Turing-completeness, simplifying the construction, but haven't been able to tell them about it because they communicate via a forum that needs a Twitch account to log into < 1697223059 398855 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: that must be the Scryfall forum < 1697223062 966885 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :forestwalk doesn't usually matter against an all-land deck, unless you're giving the opponent creatures to block with < 1697223067 427424 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: actually no, MTG Salvation < 1697223075 231091 :Europe2048!~Europe204@fableness-hydrant.volia.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Please finish this: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Nice < 1697223076 474757 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :right, that one < 1697223166 950713 :Europe2048!~Europe204@fableness-hydrant.volia.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :So you agree with me? < 1697223205 84659 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Europe2048: the page *was* finished, but it was using images illegally stolen from other websites < 1697223206 677215 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so they had to be deleted < 1697223227 218171 :Europe2048!~Europe204@fableness-hydrant.volia.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :So now you have to remake 'em, all by yourself. < 1697223232 850046 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :no I don't < 1697223250 214093 :Europe2048!~Europe204@fableness-hydrant.volia.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Why? < 1697223277 741553 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :because that isn't how obligations work < 1697223281 278633 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: so why can't you get an account on twitch? have they started to require phone verification for all new accounts or some such nonsense? < 1697223289 826916 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I don't agree with their terms of service < 1697223318 400112 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :including parts that would impact you if you don't stream? < 1697223325 692083 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :s/would/would not/ < 1697223347 301369 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :their terms of service is quite weird for sure < 1697223358 248977 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but most of the weird rules are for streaming or for twitch chat < 1697223369 739659 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: last time I looked they had a rather overreaching indemnification clause > 1697223371 689860 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Nice14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117879&oldid=117372 5* 03Europe2048 5* (+183) 10 < 1697223381 770643 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, I'll look at that < 1697223417 844361 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I imagine the entire ToS has changed since – those things tend to have a lot of churn – but it's still not something I particularly want to get involved with < 1697223454 485513 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Is there any newsgroup on Usenet that is suitable to write about Turing-completeness of Magic: the Gathering? < 1697223478 846181 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: technically yes, but it's unlikely anyone is still reading it < 1697223511 616617 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Usenet used to be the primary forum for discussing Magic: the Gathering a couple of decades ago, and as such there's at least one newsgroup for general M:tG discussion < 1697223519 459911 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although I'm not 100% confident about what it was called < 1697223573 635803 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think it started rec.games., but there's a chance it was in alt. < 1697223634 470498 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh the ToS definitely keeps changing and growing for sure < 1697223712 765938 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Wizards hosted a web forum about M:tG and more for a while, but they sadly removed it from the web since. that forum did contain a lot of useful information. < 1697223733 929765 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :they also turned off Gatherer comments < 1697223741 984194 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@37.128.204.107 QUIT :Quit: gone too far < 1697223955 933668 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://www.twitch.tv/p/en/legal/terms-of-service/#a-indemnification ah, this is probably what you're talking about < 1697224041 956150 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wow, yes, that clause is *still* ridiculous < 1697224046 384126 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes it is < 1697224066 697194 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess in that case you'll have to find other contacts for someone involved < 1697224096 760893 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I have been trying < 1697224115 848601 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :at this point the easier approach seems to be to find someone who already has a Twitch account and would be willing to relay the message < 1697224121 749826 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or write up on http://nethack4.org/pastebin/unfinished-mtg-tc-combo.html and hope they read it < 1697224134 391034 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it seems weird to edit a pastebin < 1697224145 810480 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, that's a pastebin < 1697224145 880707 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :even though I can do it, due to having control of the server it's implemented on < 1697224146 622279 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm < 1697224164 896823 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I thought you had something outside of the pastebin < 1697224171 431193 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's on the wiki < 1697224175 80413 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://esolangs.org/wiki/Flooding_Waterfall_Model < 1697224205 535931 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh lovely indeed. I especially like "[...] Twitch reserves the right, at your expense, [...]" > 1697224250 693458 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117880&oldid=117119 5* 03Ais523 5* (+55) 10link [[Flooding Waterfall Model]], not my language but relevant to the M:tG discussion < 1697224323 257616 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if they ever tried to enforce that clause in full, they would be destroyed by the media < 1697224331 930091 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I got a badge on our intranet team page from having had a source control client named after a M:tG card, but it was completely accidental. < 1697224335 541673 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I think it was just "knight" or something, named after a project/group/thing.) < 1697224382 293342 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :just "Knight" isn't an M:tG card. it's an M:tG creature type. < 1697224397 868742 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: it was the name of a token, until the rule change to token names < 1697224404 671269 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but yes, tokens are not cards < 1697224441 213263 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :It was probably pulled from some database of some kind by someone who didn't pay attention good. < 1697224458 206712 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there are M:tG cards with very generic names admittedly. < 1697224480 163677 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also Slay the Spire seems to have proportionally more generic names than M:tG apparently < 1697224515 458515 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Slay the Spire naming is weird, many of the names are generic but many of them aren't < 1697224521 684202 :Europe2048!~Europe204@fableness-hydrant.volia.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Also, I'm building a bf interepter in Scratch. < 1697224532 897538 :Europe2048!~Europe204@fableness-hydrant.volia.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :It will have 256 memory cells. < 1697224546 628224 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :incidentally, when I went onto a Netrunner forum to tell people about the TCness proof, it turned out that the creator of Slay the Spire was owner of the forum < 1697224583 822307 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(the forum came first) < 1697224640 776608 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh they also have one of those lovely "symmetric" arbitration clauses that aren't symmetric at all when you're a consumer and the other party is a billion dollar company. < 1697224701 288421 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: the funny thing there is, the asymmetry actually ends up benefiting the consumer usually, there's at least one case semi-recently of a company ending up hugely burdened by their own arbitration caluse < 1697224701 428383 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Apparently it was for having one called "knight" but also for having one called "launch", which does appear -- https://scryfall.com/card/usg/82/launch is what the 'why I have this badge?' script links to -- to be an actual card. < 1697224721 192824 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`card-by-name Launch < 1697224723 267872 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Launch \ 1U \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant creature \ Enchanted creature has flying. \ When Launch is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, return Launch to its owner's hand. \ US-C \ \ Launch Party \ 3B \ Instant \ As an additional cost to cast this spell, sacrifice a creature. \ Destroy target creature. Its controller loses 2 life. \ RTR-C \ \ Launch the Fleet \ W \ Sorcery \ Strive -- This spell costs {1} more to cast for each target beyond the < 1697224744 968806 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`card-by-name Rancor < 1697224746 139377 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Rancor \ G \ Enchantment -- Aura \ Enchant creature \ Enchanted creature gets +2/+0 and has trample. \ When Rancor is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, return Rancor to its owner's hand. \ UL-C, ARC-C, PC2-C, M13-U, EMA-U, PCA-C, E02-U, A25-U, DDD-C < 1697224757 25436 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah, I was wondering if it was a cycle, apparently not though < 1697224766 639298 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :would be a *very* unbalanced cycle if so :-) < 1697224852 736867 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I'm not sure whether I agree with the conclusion... to my mind that case was an outlier where the company (I forgot which one) actually lost in arbitration. I don't have any data though. < 1697224868 932286 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: it was more about the costs to the company < 1697224880 501809 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think it was some "arbitration rather than class action" thing < 1697224897 572614 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and the class action would have been *much* cheaper for the company than a huge number of individual arbitration cases < 1697224909 454844 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :which they had to deal with individually < 1697224917 364730 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah, I don't think I saw that. < 1697224951 8753 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I think Rancor is a cycle < 1697224954 190684 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :is in a cycle < 1697224960 566695 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :The case I saw was a company who lost in arbitration and tried to appeal and found that their ToS said they couldn't do that... so they lost. < 1697224989 735864 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :But it was a while ago and I forgot all the details. :-/ > 1697225097 965545 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Placement14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117881&oldid=97071 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+79) 10Categories < 1697225111 583678 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1697225242 759734 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: hmm, it looks like it might be two different cycles, one is Cessation, Slow Motion, Sleeper's Guile, Sluggishness, Rancor; the other is Brilliant Halo, Launch, Despodency, Fiery Mantle, Fortitude. < 1697225253 484504 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I have multiple of these cards < 1697225268 400087 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and I did remember that Rancor is a cycle < 1697225287 722695 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :they come from old sets so unbalanced cycles aren't unlikely < 1697225369 970679 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ooh, I think I have a Reddit account for one of the people in the thread, it surely has to be the same person < 1697225453 20581 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wow, the Reddit send private message thing isn't working any more < 1697225457 511007 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :how much have they managed to break that site < 1697225479 107421 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :shift-refresh fixed it < 1697225481 32185 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :still, wow < 1697225551 804659 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: https://www.irregularwebcomic.net/draakslair/viewtopic.php?p=179213&hilit=atog#p179213 is relevant for how easy it is to accidentally name something the same as a M:tG card, so I can easily believe that you named a software the same as a card, it's just that "Knight" doesn't match > 1697225609 62003 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Arraything14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117882&oldid=117876 5* 03PaxtonPenguin 5* (+23) 10When the h < 1697225630 268858 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe you called it Minamo, School at Water's Edge instead < 1697225652 51250 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :let's see if this works < 1697225729 224622 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh yeah, ais523's version control system shares its name with an M:tG card < 1697225751 597532 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so does Apache's < 1697225756 55284 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wow < 1697225808 212002 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: mine also shares its name with a Yu-Gi-Oh! card, which is more notable because it's one of the most famous cards in the game – an entire format is named after it < 1697225838 47527 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :nice < 1697225841 616472 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net JOIN #esolangs cpressey :[https://web.libera.chat] cpressey < 1697225874 783390 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :next we need to find a collectible card game that has a card named "Mercurial" < 1697225913 138880 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :M:tG has Mercurial Spelldancer, but I don't think it has Mercurial as a single word < 1697225921 142072 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, that reminds me, what's the Knight card in Settlers of Catan called? is it "Knight"? < 1697225988 750820 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :looks like it is "Knight" < 1697225990 579690 :Europe2048!~Europe204@fableness-hydrant.volia.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :What are you talking about? < 1697225995 911981 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: ^ < 1697226057 792159 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Europe2048: we're a little offtopic at the moment, talking about cards in card games that have the same name as other things < 1697226111 410205 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the reference to ais's version control software is obscure. it doesn't exist yet and it's called scapegoat. < 1697226140 774310 :Europe2048!~Europe204@fableness-hydrant.volia.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: OK! < 1697226179 3705 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :planning software projects is so much easier than actually writing them < 1697226199 980753 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :especially for me at the moment, I was trying to write more of a program earlier today and just couldn't do it < 1697226348 506209 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :at present, it feels like I'm only able to program for about a week at a time, and then it takes a couple of weeks to recover from it < 1697226371 210505 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1697226542 384517 :Europe2048!~Europe204@fableness-hydrant.volia.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :"> tromp has joined" < 1697226559 765983 :Europe2048!~Europe204@fableness-hydrant.volia.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :This isn't the White House.l < 1697226579 326709 :Europe2048!~Europe204@fableness-hydrant.volia.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :(the l was typed accidentally) < 1697226602 804273 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :turns out that sometimes, some surnames have several letters in common with other surnames < 1697226791 778223 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I spent the week writing a (not-quite-)Scheme to JavaScript compiler.  Which kind of works, but a lot of the library procedures aren't implemented. < 1697226817 234871 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :It also interprets! And it's written in Lua. < 1697226830 270484 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :It cheats very much by leaving out tail recursion. < 1697226863 597161 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :The next step is to implement some esolangs in it. < 1697226873 526912 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh right, being a compiler rather than an interpreter, it isn't trivial to implement tail recursion without support in the host language < 1697226890 593192 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yah. < 1697226895 134197 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :is JavaScript allowed to support tail-recursion? if so, I imagine most of the browser engines would implement it < 1697226913 31541 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :some languages have semantics which make tail-recursion an invalid optimisation for one reason or another < 1697226961 420791 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :out of interest, how good is Lua at writing compilers? I don't think I've ever tried that combination < 1697226996 223923 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :each of "commit", "clone", "clean", "reset", "restore", "status", are both M:tG card names and git subcommands. They should print a "bisect" instant and add an "index" subcommand. < 1697227151 641022 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :isn't "commit" half an aftermath card? which makes the pronounced card name "commit to memory" < 1697227168 468325 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but the names of the halves are treated separately by the game, so I expect it counts < 1697227247 522074 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm not sure but I think the aftermath cards just have the first name as their name unless they're on the stack cast with aftermath < 1697227346 73621 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :cpressey: is this the scheme-like language that you were talking about a few days ago? > 1697227878 578206 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Arraything14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117883&oldid=117882 5* 03PaxtonPenguin 5* (+43) 10 > 1697228361 644412 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Udymts14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117884&oldid=92264 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (-25) 10Link, categories < 1697228408 825917 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think JavaScript is allowed to implement tail-recursion in some cases only, as far as I know < 1697228541 937981 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Planning software project easier than writing it might also depend what plans are being made, I think < 1697228639 143118 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :One thing I wanted to design (and might be good with better discussion of it) is operating system design. < 1697228647 731101 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: What is "bisect" instant going to mean? < 1697228700 212545 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :presumably some sort of removal spell < 1697228721 92767 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although there is already Saw In Half (too new to be in the bot, I think), which changes one creature into two tokens with each have half the stats < 1697228727 246620 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think, at least < 1697228761 672643 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :not 100% sure, it's hard for me to remember all the details of a card that's never been particularly relevant to me < 1697229557 958408 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, I'm thinking it's a creature removal spell > 1697229569 950651 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Fm14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117885&oldid=69397 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+29) 10Category < 1697229692 493181 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or it could be a red removal spell that kills a creature or artifact < 1697230349 283946 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1697230363 613859 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net JOIN #esolangs cpressey :[https://web.libera.chat] cpressey < 1697230435 18618 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Was torn away for a bit there.  ais523: I don't know if tail calls can be optimized in JS - I suspect they can't but only because I can't recall reading about it, and I know I've read about some optimizations JS compilers do.  This is the largest project I've done in Lua, and it's not much worse than using say Python, but it's a bit goofier / < 1697230435 518991 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :less intuitive. < 1697230523 426732 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: Yes, it's that one.  I don't know how similar to actual Scheme it will turn out to be, but it's, erm, "mutually intelligible". < 1697230933 353292 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :According to some web searches, the ES6 spec permits implementations to do TCO, but as of 2023 the only engine that actually does it is Safari.  I wouldn't've guessed that. < 1697230971 541843 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :cpressey: Firefox and Chromium both have very advanced debuggers, maybe they don't implement TCO because it would mess with the debugger < 1697231783 239455 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :It is apparent that they Have Reasons Not To, whatever they exactly are.  Apparently Chromium tried, back in 2016, but then backed out.  Anyway, it's no matter.  The functions I'll be writing in this don't do much recursion at all, and it iteration is needed, it can be done in library functions.  And if I ever DO feel like writing a < 1697231783 740250 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :trampolining compiler, I now have something I can extend in that direction instead of starting from scratch. < 1697231818 734299 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :Actually, if there are recursion schemes, can't there also be iteration schemes?  Instead of fold(), you have iter() < 1697231861 736185 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there's also the compromise where you optimize some tail calls but don't guarantee optimizing all of them < 1697231873 488491 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :real world compilers do that < 1697232517 138897 :Europe2048!~Europe204@fableness-hydrant.volia.net QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1697233635 773985 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-87-108.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1697241562 614299 :Penguin!~Penguin@2600:1014:b035:a8e2:d151:9902:84f4:f2ac JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Penguin < 1697241571 613120 :FortyTwoBB!~FortyTwoB@97-120-159-76.ptld.qwest.net JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] FortyTwoBB < 1697241572 937094 :Penguin!~Penguin@2600:1014:b035:a8e2:d151:9902:84f4:f2ac QUIT :Client Quit