< 1697501083 567446 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Also, is there a name for a category of the walks of a undirected graph such that if you walk backward along the same path that you had just done then it cancels it out? (For example, if you have a graph which is a triangle with notes A B C then A-B-C-A-B-A has the final A-B and B-A canceling each other out being considered equal to A-B-C-A.)
< 1697504159 502739 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1697504199 509228 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
> 1697506200 930617 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Deadfish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117972&oldid=117612 5* 03Dnm 5* (+472) 10/* Umka, now for Umka 1.2 */
< 1697507366 271932 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-092-074-060-232.092.074.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
> 1697507514 259306 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Counting14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117973&oldid=117585 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (+0) 10Amended an instance of cacography.
< 1697508131 271189 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-002-200-068-007.002.200.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN #esolangs Melvar :melvar
> 1697513413 515216 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:PixelatedStarfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117974&oldid=117175 5* 03PixelatedStarfish 5* (+31) 10/* Logo suggestions */
> 1697513579 483527 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03PixelatedStarfish 5*  10uploaded "[[02File:DeadFishPlusPlus.png10]]": logo!
> 1697513701 269194 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:PixelatedStarfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117976&oldid=117974 5* 03PixelatedStarfish 5* (+25) 10/* Logo suggestions */
> 1697513726 146252 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:PixelatedStarfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117977&oldid=117976 5* 03PixelatedStarfish 5* (-56) 10/* Logo suggestions */
> 1697513753 67172 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Deadfish++14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117978&oldid=117260 5* 03PixelatedStarfish 5* (+68) 10
> 1697513786 964039 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Deadfish++14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117979&oldid=117978 5* 03PixelatedStarfish 5* (-68) 10/* Logo */
> 1697513809 425159 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Europe204814]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117980&oldid=117933 5* 03PixelatedStarfish 5* (+61) 10
> 1697515102 893705 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07?14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117981&oldid=117962 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+49) 10Categories
> 1697515169 800271 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07?14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117982&oldid=117981 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+19) 10Category
> 1697518745 839890 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainbits14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117983&oldid=117598 5* 03Yb1 5* (-15) 10thanks None1
< 1697523551 164998 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 JOIN #esolangs arseniiv :the chaotic arseniiv
< 1697531829 566775 :Koen!~Koen@dvx62-h01-176-145-78-176.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr JOIN #esolangs * :Koen
< 1697534728 907964 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1697535871 461297 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn JOIN #esolangs toonn :Unknown
> 1697537952 567073 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Snowflake14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117984&oldid=107486 5* 03PkmnQ 5* (+405) 10/* Segmented transposition */ new section
> 1697539348 427501 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Deadfish++14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117985&oldid=117494 5* 03None1 5* (+41) 10
< 1697539636 875286 :craigo__!~craigo@2403:5815:da48:0:a1aa:83b:a8a5:bab4 JOIN #esolangs * :realname
< 1697539811 696141 :craigo_!~craigo@180-150-36-21.b49624.bne.nbn.aussiebb.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1697540193 801395 :craigo__!~craigo@2403:5815:da48:0:a1aa:83b:a8a5:bab4 QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1697542276 121374 :Thelie!~Thelie@2a03:2260:300c:400:61bd:fe2e:1f3c:b90a JOIN #esolangs Thelie :Thelie
> 1697543201 749670 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hsamsniarb14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117986&oldid=116387 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (+1) 10Rectified an orthographic mistake.
> 1697543251 226583 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hsamsniarb14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117987&oldid=117986 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (+1) 10Rectified an orthographic mistake.
> 1697543334 802578 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Imput14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117988&oldid=115793 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (+1) 10Rectified an orthographic mistake.
> 1697543473 217383 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07...14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117989&oldid=114873 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (-3) 10Amended an erroneous statement in the Common Lisp implementation's documentation concerning the memory's componency.
> 1697543713 731522 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Skim machine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117990&oldid=105910 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (-1) 10Rectified an orthographic mistake.
> 1697543795 135663 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07O o14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117991&oldid=106020 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (+0) 10Rectified an orthographic mistake.
> 1697544220 779062 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainbits14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117992&oldid=117983 5* 03None1 5* (+10) 10Fixed truth machine
> 1697544402 192196 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainbits14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117993&oldid=117992 5* 03None1 5* (+137) 10/* Examples */
> 1697544755 597624 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117994&oldid=117927 5* 03None1 5* (+145) 10/* Related languages */
> 1697545201 801887 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None1/InDev14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117995&oldid=117956 5* 03None1 5* (+288) 10/* Commands */
> 1697545252 283411 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None1/InDev14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117996&oldid=117995 5* 03None1 5* (+3) 10/* Errors */
> 1697545267 95167 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None1/InDev14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117997&oldid=117996 5* 03None1 5* (+4) 10/* Example programs */
> 1697545729 733001 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None1/InDev14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117998&oldid=117997 5* 03None1 5* (+107) 10
> 1697545823 132806 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Programming abillities of different esolangs14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=117999&oldid=117572 5* 03None1 5* (+304) 10/* B */
< 1697546266 526017 :Koen!~Koen@dvx62-h01-176-145-78-176.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr PRIVMSG #esolangs :!msg cpressey I've read the first half of the first half of "counterexamples in topology". it's fun. but "Don't worry if you don't know topology -- it's not the topology that makes this a worthwhile read" seriously? this can be read by someone who hasn't studied topology? there are so much formal symbols everywhere and so many abstract words describing different kinds of abstract topologies!!
< 1697546297 571522 :Koen!~Koen@dvx62-h01-176-145-78-176.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr PRIVMSG #esolangs :!send cpressey I've read the first half of the first half of "counterexamples in topology". it's fun. but "Don't worry if you don't know topology -- it's not the topology that makes this a worthwhile read" seriously? this can be read by someone who hasn't studied topology? there are so much formal symbols everywhere and so many abstract words describing different kinds of abstract topologies!!
< 1697547500 417496 :Thelie!~Thelie@2a03:2260:300c:400:61bd:fe2e:1f3c:b90a QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
> 1697547642 314234 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None1/InDev14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118000&oldid=117998 5* 03None1 5* (+115) 10
> 1697547670 375403 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None1/InDev14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118001&oldid=118000 5* 03None1 5* (+0) 10/* Reverse Cat program */
> 1697547711 108668 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None1/InDev14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118002&oldid=118001 5* 03None1 5* (+13) 10/* Jump */
> 1697547891 642221 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None1/InDev14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118003&oldid=118002 5* 03None1 5* (+130) 10/* Example programs */
> 1697547939 164377 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None1/InDev14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118004&oldid=118003 5* 03None1 5* (-3478) 10
> 1697548328 319394 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stack-based14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=118005 5* 03None1 5* (+3718) 10Created page with " Stack-based is a stack-based esolang invented by [[User:None1]]. ==Commands== They are case-insensitive.  Legend: ''x'', ''y'' and ''z'' are variables, ''integer'' is an integer literal, ''string'' is a string literal without quotes. ===Declaration===  VAR ''x'' Decl
> 1697548588 726736 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118006&oldid=117965 5* 03None1 5* (+13) 10/* B */
> 1697548676 414215 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118007&oldid=118006 5* 03None1 5* (+18) 10/* S */
> 1697548707 920197 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118008&oldid=117942 5* 03None1 5* (+44) 10/* My Esolangs */
> 1697548757 538914 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stack-based14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118009&oldid=118005 5* 03None1 5* (+80) 10/* Errors */
> 1697548814 330782 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages (N-Z)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118010&oldid=117773 5* 03None1 5* (+38) 10/* Spoon */
> 1697548856 554415 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Nope.14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118011&oldid=115845 5* 03None1 5* (+35) 10/* Setlang */
> 1697548910 547466 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Truth-machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118012&oldid=117599 5* 03None1 5* (+56) 10/* Squishy2K */
< 1697548937 385520 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.149.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru JOIN #esolangs arseniiv :the chaotic arseniiv
> 1697548969 528421 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07A+B Problem14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118013&oldid=117606 5* 03None1 5* (+74) 10/* Sokolang */
> 1697549002 993195 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Looping counter14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118014&oldid=113543 5* 03None1 5* (+123) 10/* Examples */
> 1697549027 915698 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Looping counter14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118015&oldid=118014 5* 03None1 5* (+2) 10
< 1697549034 316630 :Thelie!~Thelie@2a03:2260:300c:400:61bd:fe2e:1f3c:b90a JOIN #esolangs Thelie :Thelie
> 1697549043 103903 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Looping counter14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118016&oldid=118015 5* 03None1 5* (-1) 10
< 1697549132 893432 :arseniiv!~arseniiv@188.64.15.98 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
> 1697549141 455580 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Looping counter14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118017&oldid=118016 5* 03None1 5* (+1) 10
< 1697549635 477267 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :"BB(745) requires proving the consistency of ZFC"
< 1697549637 915650 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't understand this
< 1697549650 532268 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :can't you just calculate BB(n)?
< 1697549676 683699 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :i guess not because some turing machines may not terminate, but it wont be obvious
< 1697549682 111645 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://www.sligocki.com/2023/10/16/bb-3-3-is-hard.html
< 1697549712 875759 :river!river@tilde.team/user/river PRIVMSG #esolangs :so BB(n) isnt just something you can calculate, you actually have to prove termination for every turing machine of a certain length
> 1697550389 300916 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainbits14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118018&oldid=117993 5* 03None1 5* (+1) 10/* Truth Machine */
> 1697550408 876169 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainbits14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118019&oldid=118018 5* 03None1 5* (-1) 10/* Cat program */
> 1697550932 232663 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainbits14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118020&oldid=118019 5* 03None1 5* (+615) 10/* Examples */
> 1697550975 715284 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainbits14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118021&oldid=118020 5* 03None1 5* (+77) 10No longer unimplemented!
> 1697551001 222252 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118022&oldid=118008 5* 03None1 5* (+22) 10/* My Implementations */
> 1697551075 480843 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainbits14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118023&oldid=118021 5* 03None1 5* (+4) 10/* Hello World! */
> 1697551100 246985 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages (nonalphabetic and A-M)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118024&oldid=117823 5* 03None1 5* (+534) 10/* BoolX */
> 1697551339 297813 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainbits14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118025&oldid=118023 5* 03None1 5* (-29) 10/* Interpreter */  It's not TC
< 1697555962 165369 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas
< 1697556069 113018 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`dontaskdonttelllist
< 1697556070 497878 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :dontaskdonttelllist: q​u​i​n​t​o​p​i​a​ m​y​n​a​m​e​ i​n​t​-​e​
< 1697556084 479336 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Koen: try @tell
< 1697556098 494248 :Koen!~Koen@dvx62-h01-176-145-78-176.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr PRIVMSG #esolangs :thanks
< 1697556107 232514 :Koen!~Koen@dvx62-h01-176-145-78-176.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr PRIVMSG #esolangs :@tell cpressey I've read the first half of the first half of "counterexamples in topology". it's fun. but "Don't worry if you don't know topology -- it's not the topology that makes this a worthwhile read" seriously? this can be read by someone who hasn't studied topology? there are so much formal symbols everywhere and so many abstract words describing different kinds of abstract topologies!!
< 1697556107 275840 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esolangs :Consider it noted.
< 1697556107 929776 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :river: proving termination is the easier hard part, the hard (or impossible for larger n) part is proving non-termination
> 1697556131 258453 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Codeguy9 5*  10New user account
< 1697556240 126514 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok, so the C++ function std::regex_search and the python function re.search tries to find how a regex matches any infix of a string; the python function re.match tries to find how a regex matches any prefix of a string; the C++ function std::regex_match and the python function re.fullmatch tries to find how a regex matches a whole string. that's
< 1697556240 605227 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :another annoying naming conflict.
> 1697556933 622113 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118026&oldid=117790 5* 03Codeguy9 5* (+177) 10/* Introductions */
> 1697556987 408406 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Codeguy914]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=118027 5* 03Codeguy9 5* (+98) 10Created page with "I make programming languages for fun and then post them as open source projects on my Google Drive"
< 1697557659 466630 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed
> 1697557674 287961 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Codeguy914]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=118028 5* 03Codeguy9 5* (+12) 10Created page with ""
> 1697560990 244948 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[078-Bit14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=118029 5* 03Infinitehexagon 5* (+911) 10Created page with "'''8-Bit''' is an esolang created by [[User:Infinitehexagon]] in hopes of making his first Turing tarpit using Binary numbers, but it is unknown whether this is Turing-complete due to the fact that the cells are NOT unbounded and are limited to 8 cells. This langua
> 1697561040 209069 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[078-Bit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118030&oldid=118029 5* 03Infinitehexagon 5* (+204) 10
> 1697561061 629997 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[078-Bit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118031&oldid=118030 5* 03Infinitehexagon 5* (+1) 10
> 1697561078 678061 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[078-Bit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118032&oldid=118031 5* 03Infinitehexagon 5* (+0) 10/* Hello World */
> 1697561172 898823 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[078-Bit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118033&oldid=118032 5* 03Infinitehexagon 5* (+212) 10
> 1697561225 79810 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[078-Bit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118034&oldid=118033 5* 03Infinitehexagon 5* (-12) 10
> 1697561402 778488 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[078-Bit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118035&oldid=118034 5* 03Infinitehexagon 5* (+131) 10
> 1697561552 995389 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[078-Bit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118036&oldid=118035 5* 03Infinitehexagon 5* (+53) 10
> 1697561754 492471 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[078-Bit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118037&oldid=118036 5* 03Infinitehexagon 5* (+159) 10
> 1697561850 726888 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[078-Bit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118038&oldid=118037 5* 03Infinitehexagon 5* (+46) 10
> 1697562055 927592 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[078-Bit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118039&oldid=118038 5* 03Infinitehexagon 5* (+24) 10
> 1697562088 28095 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Infinitehexagon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118040&oldid=117722 5* 03Infinitehexagon 5* (+2) 10/* Things I might do */
> 1697562127 551248 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Infinitehexagon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118041&oldid=118040 5* 03Infinitehexagon 5* (+14) 10/* My Esolangs (chronological order) */
> 1697562338 90221 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[078-Bit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118042&oldid=118039 5* 03Infinitehexagon 5* (+75) 10
> 1697562361 63713 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[078-Bit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118043&oldid=118042 5* 03Infinitehexagon 5* (+6) 10
< 1697562485 499626 :Koen!~Koen@dvx62-h01-176-145-78-176.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr QUIT :Quit: Leaving...
< 1697566873 504830 :arseniiv_!~arseniiv@136.169.149.238.dynamic.ufanet.ru QUIT :Quit: gone too far
< 1697567814 782094 :Wryl-o-the-wisp!sid553797@user/wryl QUIT :
< 1697568404 121709 :Wryl-o-the-wisp!sid553797@user/wryl JOIN #esolangs Wryl :Wryl
< 1697568681 612914 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-14-126.as13285.net JOIN #esolangs cpressey :[https://web.libera.chat] cpressey
> 1697569799 211645 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Deadfish++14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118044&oldid=117985 5* 03Europe2048 5* (+20) 10Changed syntax: /x\  mx
< 1697570447 725994 :rodgort!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Write error: Connection reset by peer
< 1697571448 434734 :rodgort!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de JOIN #esolangs * :rodgort
< 1697572043 865119 :sprout_!~quassel@2a02-a448-3a80-0-f008-d723-753e-6614.fixed6.kpn.net JOIN #esolangs * :sprout
< 1697572239 120270 :sprout!~quassel@2a02-a448-3a80-0-fc0c-d252-d543-cf0d.fixed6.kpn.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1697572573 529028 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-14-126.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)
< 1697573247 83048 :sprout_!~quassel@2a02-a448-3a80-0-f008-d723-753e-6614.fixed6.kpn.net NICK :sprout
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< 1697575140 622364 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-14-126.as13285.net JOIN #esolangs cpressey :[https://web.libera.chat] cpressey
> 1697575493 680608 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Blackberry14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118045&oldid=46427 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+32) 10Stub, category
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< 1697576719 852236 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo JOIN #esolangs craigo :realname
< 1697576962 411154 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-14-126.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :<b_jonas> ah yes, that's a good way to get an esoteric language. plan a domain-specific language that you want to use for some particular purpose, then find that you don't want to use it after all, ends up unused and esoteric  <-- Yes, this is a good design metholodology for esolangs.
< 1697577076 840911 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-14-126.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :My compiler's not a write-off but was driven off the road by the fact that Scheme is a bad fit for what I need.  I'll probably change the source language someday, try to salvage something from it.
< 1697577428 930252 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-14-126.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :@tell Koen There are lots of nice pictures in it you can look at if you don't like puzzling over math symbols.
< 1697577428 978813 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esolangs :Consider it noted.
< 1697577526 500768 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I have invented some domain-specific language and had some intention of others that I had not yet designed (I have a few ideas but not enough). I could also consider that too, though
< 1697577992 466203 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Specifically, I had made up one for puzzle games (like Sokoban, Hero Hearts, etc); and I thought to also make one for specifying rules of variants of mahjong.)
< 1697578056 334793 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(And, PostScript is both general-purpose and domain-specific programming language, as well as both text and binary, and I seem to remember also reading somewhere that it is also both esoteric programming and not esoteric programming at the same time, too.)
< 1697578408 687870 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-14-126.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :I owned this book on PostScript, once, a long time ago: https://archive.org/details/postscriptlangua00adobrich
< 1697578409 203239 :cpressey!~cpressey@host-2-102-14-126.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't think I would call PostScript truly esoteric, but it definitely has its moments.
< 1697578520 777222 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think you are probably correct
< 1697578638 332068 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :PostScript is one of the programming languages that I use, although I think some improvements could be made, such as adding a /Environment resource, non-buffered pipes, alpha transparency, setting the encoding separately from the font, auto-allocation for some operators, string concatenation, and some others
< 1697578788 640519 :b_jonas!~x@89.134.28.176 PRIVMSG #esolangs :cpressey, zzo38: re unused domain-specific language, https://esolangs.org/wiki/Legasm is the main example that I was thinking of
< 1697579571 414275 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
< 1697580386 304515 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :My opinion is that, nevertheless, PostScript is much better designed than many newer programming languages. One advantage of PostScript is that it does not use Unicode strings.
< 1697580665 322783 :sprout_!~quassel@2a02-a448-3a80-0-a518-4d18-54ef-95d2.fixed6.kpn.net NICK :sprout
< 1697580699 564273 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :And, the PostScript binary object sequence format is good but is not very good if you want 64-bit values.
< 1697581049 587992 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Other than that, it has the advantage of not needing parsing the entire structure to find one part
< 1697581256 390838 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
< 1697581288 119757 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1697581461 900622 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :for the logs (for if FortyTwoBB reads them, or someone can otherwise link this portion of the logs if they show up):
< 1697581479 747523 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :my Flooding Waterfall Model compile+simulation on the same program gives:
< 1697581481 199506 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Waterclock values: 11×260+36 11×260+36 11×260+37 11×260+36 11×260+36 11×260+36 11×260+35 11×260+36 1 1 1 19 27 3 1 0 1 1 0 19 27 3 260^318-11 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 260^318-13 0 0 0 0 0 260^318-13 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
< 1697581586 825051 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :260^318-11 is a 768-digit number starting with 9152182143
< 1697581598 97589 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so I suspect we have the same result and you just miscounted the digits
< 1697581632 664395 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also, I realised I was slightly wrong when saying a constant toughness boost wouldn't affect the Flooding Waterfall Model compiler output
< 1697581651 202067 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it actually does affect one part of it: the halt counter, which won't work correctly if you add a constant toughness boost and the program is otherwise unmodified
< 1697581672 771334 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this isn't a major issue, it is possible to change the baseline a little to compensate for the constant toughness boost
< 1697581774 242914 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also I get 3989 floods, just like you do
< 1697581890 295826 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :as for the Massacre Girl construction, when using Bishop of Wings it can be halted very simply by using the Bishops (whose creature types are unique) as the halt counter (the halt counter is formed of the Bishops + lots of tokens), when the program halts all the Bishops die so there are no token-creation triggers left
< 1697581934 773405 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :however, I prefer your approach, because it makes it possible to use Xathrid Necromancer instead, meaning that we don't have to give the opponent life (making it possible to have a lethal Grapeshot on the stack immediately below the damage source, also a Grapeshot, that starts off the combo)
< 1697581990 696356 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :on another side note, Spiral Rise can interpret n-tag directly, you don't have to go via 2-tag
< 1697582313 325687 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(sorry for not being online yesterday – I am often busy on Mondays)
> 1697582857 915754 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:8-Bit14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=118046 5* 03None1 5* (+144) 10Created page with "If the data in a language is bounded, then its definitely not TC. --~~~~"
> 1697583054 554021 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Springboard14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118047&oldid=94912 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+74) 10Categories
< 1697583301 614795 :FortyTwoBB!~FortyTwoB@155.190.3.7 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] FortyTwoBB
< 1697583319 979820 :FortyTwoBB!~FortyTwoB@155.190.3.7 PRIVMSG #esolangs :just read the logs Thanks @ais523
< 1697583337 751852 :FortyTwoBB!~FortyTwoB@155.190.3.7 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I did miscount, there was a comma and a space at the end i counted
> 1697583420 699652 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Pity14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118048&oldid=12157 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+84) 10Stub, WIP, categories
> 1697583431 493719 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainbits14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118049&oldid=118025 5* 03None1 5* (+2) 10/* Interpreter */
< 1697583497 788478 :FortyTwoBB!~FortyTwoB@155.190.3.7 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the problem with using the bishops as the halt counter is that killing all of the halting type makes a ton of massacre girl triggers that will wipe out any output from the computation.
< 1697583586 382071 :FortyTwoBB!~FortyTwoB@155.190.3.7 PRIVMSG #esolangs :So you need to keep at least some token makers alive to absorb those triggers.
< 1697583635 408638 :FortyTwoBB!~FortyTwoB@155.190.3.7 PRIVMSG #esolangs :though if you don't care about output beyond "does it halt?" then your method is fine
< 1697583878 500511 :FortyTwoBB!~FortyTwoB@155.190.3.7 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm still a bit mystified by the FWC proof but can't deny that it works.
< 1697584995 330643 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if it was easier to understand, it probably wouldn't have taken three years to come up with it :-)
< 1697585003 809674 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(although I wasn't working on it continuously all that time, of course)
< 1697585044 346320 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Turing-completeness doesn't actually require output, although of course a Busy Beaver construction does, and having output is always nice
< 1697585164 157769 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think there's some sort of intermediate language which compiles into FWM, which would make the proof easier to understand
< 1697585181 26478 :FortyTwoBB!~FortyTwoB@155.190.3.7 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that would be nice
< 1697585234 618198 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you have two basic operations on positions (= damage marked): "a = min(b, c, d, …) + constant", and "if e<b, then don't include b in any minimums this cycle"
< 1697585307 7625 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :for the former, you get b's, c's, d's, … flood triggers to create some amount of a, the exact amount doesn't matter, and then use the baseline to get the constant and to get the values correct
< 1697585327 197440 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :for the latter, you get e's flood trigger to boost b within the same cluster (rather than cross-cluster like things normally work)
< 1697585377 688157 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and the baseline is conceptually simple, just a bit fiddly because you have to work out all the non-baseline changes that are happening in the program and compensate for them
< 1697585381 885203 :FortyTwoBB!~FortyTwoB@155.190.3.7 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah you have a lot more control over the valuse than I had been able to get
< 1697585399 699578 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the trick is to never lose control over velocities / token counts ever
< 1697585440 695122 :FortyTwoBB!~FortyTwoB@155.190.3.7 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, that was easier said than done
< 1697585458 877409 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but this is easier than it sounds, because if 1 X token creates a Y tokens, and 1 Y token creates b Z tokens, then one X token always creates ab Z tokens, the flood sequence doesn't matter at all
< 1697585494 207615 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(this is also the reason it's probably impossible to use the token quantities to do meaningful computation, and I had to use the damage marked instead)
< 1697585542 410889 :FortyTwoBB!~FortyTwoB@155.190.3.7 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but the damage marked will be the same as the quantity when it floods
< 1697585559 640311 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, but it controls the timing of the flood
< 1697585600 491607 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there is one counter, that I called "zero", which everything is measured relative to – data is stored in the timing of the floods of that relative to the floods of other things
< 1697585624 858844 :FortyTwoBB!~FortyTwoB@155.190.3.7 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah im wrapping my head around it, its a different way than I had been thinking of them
< 1697585661 769492 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I find that programming in this sort of language is all about finding the right way to think about the problem – what can we control, and is the language still TC if we control it
< 1697585689 224685 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Three Star Programmer was mystifying to me and everyone else when I created it, but if looked at from the right perspective it's almost trivially easy
< 1697585699 695140 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(https://esolangs.org/wiki/Three_Star_Programmer if you're interested)
< 1697585772 32115 :FortyTwoBB!~FortyTwoB@155.190.3.7 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah three star programmer is a cool 1-operation language
> 1697586186 370131 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Three Star Programmer14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=118050&oldid=117917 5* 03Ais523 5* (+960) 10/* Computational class */ explain the right way to think about this language
< 1697586297 779807 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :for what it's worth, my breakthrough in solving FWM Turing-completeness was to observe that the values are hard to control, then "so if we can't control the values we have to control the velocities", then "we can't control the velocity separately from the value if we're ensuring the counters are always nonzero, like in The Waterfall Model, so we have to leave them zero for a while – changing how long they're zero would change things in a possibly 
< 1697586299 176922 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :controllable way"
< 1697586333 867341 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and the simplest construction I could think of where things spend a lot of time at zero was to split into two groups and have each group be zero around half the time
< 1697586357 708213 :FortyTwoBB!~FortyTwoB@155.190.3.7 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah I knew zero-ed counters were useful but I couldn't figure it out.
< 1697586389 77956 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you wrote in the original article that counters were permitted to remain at zero, rather than being undefined behaviour – that may well have been a useful clue
< 1697586446 667757 :FortyTwoBB!~FortyTwoB@155.190.3.7 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah I wanted to be clear how it worked in the MTG implementation so that it was transferrable
< 1697586503 699789 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I find it fascinating how even closely related languages can have different restrictions and permissions based on what "naturally works" for the language
< 1697586530 104159 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The Waterfall Model hates zeroed counters because they would be supposed to trigger continuously, but in Flooding Waterfall Model the trigger is multiplied by 0 so it's fine
< 1697586578 770533 :FortyTwoBB!~FortyTwoB@155.190.3.7 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah lol
< 1697586632 746572 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :something similar happened with Spiral Rise, the "add the remainder to the modulus" thing helped solve two problems (TCness and implementation difficulty), and then later I implemented Spiral Rise in a tag system and that *also* wanted to naturally add the remainder to the modulus
< 1697586664 278723 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and I realised that this actually makes a lot of sense with how division works in the real world, divisions don't actually round down, if you have a remainder you have a remainder
< 1697586669 116745 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and when the remainders add up they carry
< 1697586703 302506 :FortyTwoBB!~FortyTwoB@155.190.3.7 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah TCness can come from unexpected places and its kind of serendipitous sometimes
< 1697586736 692334 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I was interested in this back when I was very young, before I realised that esolangs existed or what TCness was
< 1697586755 382529 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :trying (and mostly failing) to implement algorithms in things not meant to be programmed
< 1697586837 158234 :FortyTwoBB!~FortyTwoB@155.190.3.7 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've been more interested in the mathematics behind the structure
< 1697586864 908962 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I find that the underlying mathematics is often really neat, once you pare away enough unnecessary features
< 1697586903 422874 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :back when Turing machines were first discovered, mathematicians were interested in what the very simplest universal machines would be, hoping it would teach them something interesting
< 1697586916 144369 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and then they changed their mind, deciding that it probably wouldn't reveal anything interesting after all
< 1697586945 874423 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I think that, if you go far enough down that path, it does produce some pretty interesting mathematical constructs and some neat insights into the nature of computation
< 1697586961 958346 :FortyTwoBB!~FortyTwoB@155.190.3.7 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well the smallest is arguably wofram's (2,3)
< 1697586979 734262 :FortyTwoBB!~FortyTwoB@155.190.3.7 PRIVMSG #esolangs :though that is very weakly universal
< 1697586980 686939 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in case you didn't realise, I'm the person who proved that weakly TC
< 1697586989 46701 :FortyTwoBB!~FortyTwoB@155.190.3.7 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol
< 1697587038 327639 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it lead to a lot of controversy because nobody was quite sure what the correct definition of TCness was, and I still am not sure
< 1697587066 105272 :FortyTwoBB!~FortyTwoB@155.190.3.7 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well congrats, I spent a week reading the FOM archives a few months ago.
< 1697587096 225582 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's made me more interested in the strong TCness constructions (i.e. blank initial state and explicit halting) because a) at least those are usually uncontroversial and b) there's more room for optimisation
< 1697587146 454607 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I came up with a strongly universal (2,14) pretty recently: https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/111278/turing-complete-language-interpreter/265539#265539