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00:00:08 <esolangs> [[Von Neumann's 29-state cellular automaton]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119787&oldid=66040 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+31) Category
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02:29:46 <esolangs> [[Stick]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119788&oldid=118900 * PaxtonPenguin * (-42)
03:16:48 <esolangs> [[Game of Life]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119789&oldid=97538 * Para * (+2)
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10:33:25 <esolangs> [[SBFM]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119790&oldid=119571 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-2)
11:40:21 <esolangs> [[Incrementing machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119791&oldid=119707 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+84)
11:40:41 <esolangs> [[Incrementing machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119792&oldid=119791 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+2)
11:42:38 <esolangs> [[Incrementing machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119793&oldid=119792 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+3)
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13:16:33 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck code generation]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119794&oldid=117190 * Mayedl10 * (+152) /* Languages that compile to brainfuck */
14:00:02 <esolangs> [[Template talk:Py]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119795&oldid=119757 * Lilchiky * (+123)
14:15:19 <b_jonas> `olist 1291
14:15:22 <HackEso> olist <https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1291.html>: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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15:31:36 <Sgeo> `olist 1291
15:31:38 <HackEso> olist <https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1291.html>: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti b_jonas
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18:34:31 <esolangs> [[Stakc]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119796&oldid=108236 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-2)
19:07:29 <int-e> Lesson learned... sometimes when a puzzle doesn't work out it's just because you're too stupid :)
19:15:28 <b_jonas> is that still shapez?
19:15:58 <int-e> Yes.
19:19:45 <int-e> if you don't mind spoilers: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-copy-hard.png ...the puzzle is on top (make a logo shape in an 18x2 block, taking a white circle and grey square from the left (circle on top) and producing the logo shape in the top-right); my attempts were based on an intermediate shape with one small square raised... I took a long time to realize that there's one more degree of...
19:19:51 <int-e> ...freedom while sticking to the same basic recipe and that would save one column so it actually fits.
19:20:09 <int-e> And unfortunately for the game, the sub-optimal recipe is good enough to cheese the puzzle.
19:22:34 <int-e> And as I've mentioned before,I know for a fact that *some* (presumably older) puzzles must be cheesed. And I don't know how to tell the difference.
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19:30:23 <int-e> But does that also apply to https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-easy-11.png ...I have no clue...
19:33:41 <int-e> (The "obvious" thing doesn't work... https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-easy-11-fail.png ...you either have to do some very awkward routing or use the dhnqphggre)
19:38:46 <int-e> And one way to cheese the level looks like this: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-easy-11-cheese.png (buffer items and then modify the level to actually deliver products)
19:40:08 * int-e shrugs
19:40:25 <int-e> Somehow I'm still playing these so they can't be too terrible, right?
19:48:02 <b_jonas> that means that's a well-constructed puzzle, not only you can solve it without cheese it also taught you something
19:48:18 <b_jonas> the previous one that's 2 high that is
19:48:50 <b_jonas> I guess you can't tell in advance which puzzle is good
19:53:31 <int-e> Yeah that's my real complaint. (And *some* of the forced cheeses are actually interesting too. But it's a very different flavor of puzzle.)
19:55:08 <b_jonas> I'll just repeat that Puzzletory the Factorio mod is a collection of puzzles that does not allow this kind of cheese, because you can't change anything while your solution is evaluated
19:55:49 <b_jonas> of course you'll have to know some of the mechanics of Factorio to play them, and they can sometimes be just as crazy as shapez's mechanics, only usually for very different reasons
20:05:38 <int-e> In any case, there's just enough degrees of freedom in this puzzle that I'm not 100% sure that cheesing is necessary. I've even found a second way to do the routing that involves a double painter. Which may have been the intended way because it buffers more items...
20:05:43 <int-e> /may/
20:08:03 <int-e> looks like this: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-easy-11-cheesier.png
20:08:28 <int-e> (interestingly, splitters are disabled for this one)
20:09:31 <int-e> (but cutters can act like splitters if the shapes fit cleanly left and right; there are several puzzles using that idea)
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20:16:09 <b_jonas> a double painter used in a somewhat unusual way
20:17:17 <esolangs> [[NNYRLD]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119797&oldid=106974 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+47) Categories
20:17:37 <int-e> b_jonas: since the puzzle mode doesn't have mergers... this comes up quite a bit.
20:18:24 <int-e> at least it's a bit more clunky than the standard mergers so it's not completely overused :)
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23:51:51 <esolangs> [[Marble]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119798&oldid=99956 * Quito0567 * (+8)
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