00:14:50 <esolangs> [[GotoScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119909&oldid=119908 * Quito0567 * (+15)
00:50:05 -!- sprout_ has joined.
00:53:49 -!- sprout has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
01:46:48 -!- Noisytoot has quit (Killed (zinc.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))).
01:46:50 -!- Noisytoot has joined.
01:53:58 -!- ais523 has joined.
02:11:49 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:13:02 -!- ais523 has joined.
03:21:09 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
03:22:24 -!- ais523 has joined.
03:42:34 -!- b_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
03:44:12 -!- b_jonas has joined.
03:48:55 -!- b_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
04:02:05 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * DifferentDance8 * New user account
04:03:31 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119910&oldid=119868 * DifferentDance8 * (+258) /* Introductions */
04:03:58 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119911&oldid=119910 * DifferentDance8 * (+108)
04:14:51 -!- b_jonas has joined.
05:43:01 <esolangs> [[User:ChuckEsoteric08/Interpreters]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119912&oldid=118933 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-54) /* Bitwise Cyclic Tag */
06:33:56 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119913&oldid=118886 * Redisnotblue * (+10)
06:34:48 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119914&oldid=119913 * Redisnotblue * (+3)
06:35:50 <esolangs> [[English]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119915&oldid=118574 * Redisnotblue * (+47)
06:36:36 <esolangs> [[English+]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=119916 * Redisnotblue * (+57) Created page with "English+ is an unreleased esolang. Owned by redisnotblue."
06:36:57 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119917&oldid=119916 * Redisnotblue * (+14)
06:38:20 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119918&oldid=119917 * Redisnotblue * (+20) /* See Also */
06:39:35 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119919&oldid=119918 * Redisnotblue * (-4) /* See Also */
06:40:16 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119920&oldid=119919 * Redisnotblue * (+17) /* See Also */
06:41:34 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119921&oldid=119920 * Redisnotblue * (+11) Added see also
06:42:26 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119922&oldid=119921 * Redisnotblue * (+10)
06:42:48 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119923&oldid=119922 * Redisnotblue * (+0)
06:45:13 <esolangs> [[User:Redisnotblue]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=119924 * Redisnotblue * (+111) Created user page
06:52:59 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119925&oldid=119923 * Redisnotblue * (+70) Added category
07:15:50 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119926&oldid=119925 * Redisnotblue * (+29)
07:16:21 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119927&oldid=119926 * Redisnotblue * (+0)
07:17:52 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119928&oldid=119927 * Redisnotblue * (+25)
07:19:07 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119929&oldid=119928 * Redisnotblue * (+24)
07:19:23 <esolangs> [[English+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119930&oldid=119929 * Redisnotblue * (+0)
07:19:52 <esolangs> [[English+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119931&oldid=119930 * Redisnotblue * (+0)
08:19:01 -!- tromp has joined.
08:45:43 -!- b_jonas has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
08:46:01 -!- b_jonas has joined.
09:12:39 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
09:28:39 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
10:11:05 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined.
10:11:51 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
10:14:03 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life.
10:27:39 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit).
10:32:51 -!- tromp has joined.
11:04:00 -!- Koen has joined.
11:46:44 -!- __monty__ has joined.
12:14:43 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
12:18:29 -!- tromp has joined.
13:02:43 <esolangs> [[English+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119932&oldid=119931 * None1 * (+0)
13:06:36 <esolangs> [[Talk:lang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119933&oldid=119774 * None1 * (+114) /* Shortest lang interpreter you'll ever see */ Though someone has asked this before
13:15:22 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
13:53:12 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * MCoe * New user account
13:53:32 -!- sprout_ has changed nick to sprout.
13:56:59 -!- tromp has joined.
14:05:12 <esolangs> [[User talk:Redisnotblue]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=119934 * Europe2048 * (+211) Created page with "== Secret text? == I noticed that your introduction on [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] is encoded. Why did you do that? ~~~~"
14:17:16 <esolangs> [[JamogusLamogusAmogus]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119935&oldid=119898 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+112) Formatting, categories
14:19:23 <esolangs> [[English+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119936&oldid=119932 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+9) Stub
14:19:55 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119937&oldid=119890 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+15) /* E */ add
15:22:42 -!- GregorR has quit (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)).
15:22:55 -!- GregorR has joined.
15:34:01 -!- cpressey has joined.
15:37:35 <cpressey> b_jonas, tromp: Thank you for the discussion yesterday. There's a tradition in functional programming languages for function values to be opaque and it was useful for me to have it hammered home that this is *not* a heritage from the lambda calculus
15:38:57 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
16:03:41 -!- tromp has joined.
16:35:36 <b_jonas> As far as I know, function values are opaque mostly for convenience, because it's hard to define a stable interface to examine a function that still allows your language to be extended with new features that you can use in a function and/or new optimizations. Functions are kind-of opaque in C too. In theory if you're on a specific architecture, there's nothing stopping you from reading the bytes of the
16:35:42 <b_jonas> code of a function (and everything else that it references), because the CPU rules and the ABI are known, it's just that there's not much useful that you can do with that other than reverse-engineering and malware detection.
16:36:23 <b_jonas> Not just the code, mind you, you can also read all the debug information that's compiled for your executable.
16:36:54 <b_jonas> With full debug information, you can find out about the prototype of the function, all its local variables and how they're represented at runtime, etc.
16:38:40 <b_jonas> And then there's perl, which has the O module that lets you examine the insides of functions (it lets you examine basically all of perl's internals, but the inside of functions is the important part here).
16:39:10 <b_jonas> Occasionally people even do something weird with this.
16:39:38 <b_jonas> The J language also lets you examine the insides of user-defined functions.
17:26:30 <esolangs> [[Osmarkscalculator]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=119938 * Osmarks * (+4175) Created page with "osmarkscalculator is an esolang based on rewrite rules. == Syntax == osmarkscalculator expressions can be numbers (nonnegative integers in base 10), identifiers (made of any sequence of characters not reserved for anything else), operator invocations (parsed
17:27:08 <esolangs> [[Osmarkscalculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119939&oldid=119938 * Osmarks * (+222)
17:28:51 <esolangs> [[User:Osmarks/2]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119940&oldid=86244 * Osmarks * (+24)
17:28:56 <zzo38> In PostScript they can be examined (and modified) by default but you can write "executeonly" to prevent them from being examined in this way. (Although I think some instruction sets also have a "execute only" mode, or at least to prevent reading by anyone other than that function itself?)
17:30:39 <esolangs> [[Osmarkscalculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119941&oldid=119939 * Osmarks * (+264) infobox
17:30:58 <b_jonas> as far as I recall, some processor architectures support pages with execute right but no read rights, but x86 doesn't
17:31:40 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119942&oldid=119937 * Osmarks * (+24) add osmarkscalculator
17:33:18 <esolangs> [[Osmarkscalculator]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119943&oldid=119941 * Osmarks * (+1)
18:09:00 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
18:27:55 <esolangs> [[Osmarkscalculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=119944&oldid=119943 * Osmarks * (+1)
18:34:19 <fizzie> There's also the (pure) Harvard vs. von Neumann architecture split, where the former have (conceptually) separate instruction and data memories, and you can't inspect the code of a function, at least without using whatever escape hatch the particular architecture offers to make it possible to dynamically load programs in the first place.
18:41:17 -!- tromp has joined.
18:54:36 -!- ais523 has joined.
19:08:20 -!- Koen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:28:58 <zzo38> I think some computers have a pin for program/data so that it is possible to be implemented separately or not separately.
19:29:03 <b_jonas> fizzie: there are systems where code and data are separate but you can read both (with different instructions), but I'm not sure those would count as Harvard
19:29:47 <b_jonas> funnily there are also multiple systems (mostly old with small amount of memory) where data and stack are separate (so that the CPU can implement the stack efficiently)
19:30:06 <b_jonas> and there's one new one among those with data and stack separate: MMIX
19:30:35 <b_jonas> older ones include Forth and some old microprocessors
19:30:58 <b_jonas> heck, Forth is even funnier because it has a heap, data stack, and return stack all separate
19:31:28 <zzo38> Many VMs also have data and stack separate (even if the program is not separate), such as: uxn, Z-machine, etc
19:33:05 <b_jonas> then there's Borland C's small memory model, where code, data, and stack are in separate segments, and pointers know which segment they refer to in type, which has the interesting consequence that scanf can only read into values on the stack.
19:35:10 <zzo38> That is true on PC even if you are not writing in C, although it is possible to assign them to the same segments too
19:40:00 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: sorry about my connection).
19:40:15 -!- ais523 has joined.
19:41:43 <b_jonas> Magic-1 has separate address space for data and code, mostly because the addresses are just 16 bit wide so the address space is small. both of them are paged. and there's a CPU instruction for reading from code. well, two, because there's an 8-bit and a 16-bit code read instruction.
19:54:26 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:55:40 -!- ais523 has joined.
21:35:39 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: Client closed).
21:40:05 -!- Koen has joined.
21:45:05 -!- ManDeJan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:45:23 -!- ManDeJan has joined.
21:45:56 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
21:46:03 -!- ManDeJan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:46:37 -!- ManDeJan has joined.
21:49:19 -!- tromp has joined.
22:12:32 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
22:41:16 -!- __monty__ has quit (Quit: leaving).
23:37:23 -!- Sgeo has joined.
23:37:36 -!- Koen has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:44:36 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).