00:16:17 -!- Thelie1 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:25:58 -!- tromp has joined. 00:26:59 -!- tromp has quit (Client Quit). 00:33:54 I have a key for rot13ing the contents of the clipboard. It works OK for writing but is a little awkward for reading. 00:45:09 [[MSM]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120380&oldid=65204 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+0) Year 01:03:53 Looks like the way the terminal emulator extension works, after selecting some text, doing a control + right-click brings up a little menu (rendered in the terminal with characters), one of which is "rot13", and when selected it (a) briefly flashes the rot13'd version in one corner of the terminal, and (b) rot13's the primary selection. 01:05:41 Sounds reasonable except for the "briefly" bit. 01:06:30 I imagine it's more like 5 seconds than 0.1 seconds 01:07:02 though "flashing" makes it sound short 01:13:10 It's approximately 1 second, which definitely isn't sufficient to read a longer piece of text. 01:16:53 Yes, looks like it has a 1s timeout: https://github.com/exg/rxvt-unicode/blob/main/src/perl/selection-popup#L42 01:18:15 Do all y'all know about transaction isolation levels/anomalies? 01:24:39 no 01:25:12 I'm looking at these papers and they're all complicated-o-matic. 01:25:35 Unlike atomic commit which is just the simplest thing in the world. 01:39:19 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * TheArx * New user account 02:09:16 shachaf: I sort-of know about them but have trouble remembering the details 02:09:34 it is very esoteric, at least 02:09:58 I can sort-of imagine a language in which all functions have to be no-ops, but they aren't thread-safe so you can do useful calculations by running two of them in parallel 02:36:09 Hmm. I guess it gets scary the more precise you get about what violations of isolation you permit, exactly? 02:36:52 (https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/transaction-isolation-levels-dbms/ is rather high level and vague. Fine for an introduction.) 02:37:54 ais523: Hmm, that'd have to be some sort of "read uncommitted" situation, right? 02:38:13 So very low isolation. 02:39:53 if getRow r != getRow r { } else { 42 } -- depending on the primitive, a phantom read might be enough? 02:39:55 shachaf: probably? it's hard to remember what the medium isolation levels do 02:40:27 Anyway, no, not familiar. But now I have an idea what the topic is :P 02:40:37 is NaN a valid row? :-D 02:40:48 ais523: heh :) 02:41:02 int-e: But if all write transactions have to be nops, that means it sees a value in the middle of a transaction, right? 02:41:36 shachaf: you could read, modify, revert? not sure *why* you'd do that in a DBMS context 02:41:50 I'm assuming ais523 meant you have have something like transaction { x = read k; write(k, v); write(k, x); } 02:42:13 Right, but that's a dirty read, by the classification of that web page, isn't it? 02:42:22 ah, true 02:43:04 If you were allowed some non-nop writes then you could observe different ones in the same transaction at a higher isolation level. 02:43:19 it's not that a phantom read is insufficient, it's just that when transactions don't modify anything, they can't happen 02:43:21 Anyway, I want a classification of these things that doesn't feel very ad-hoc. 02:44:51 . o O ( give me one mutation and I'll break the world ) 02:45:10 ( ...maybe ) 02:48:53 Serializability is so good. 02:49:19 . o O ( eventual isolation ) 02:50:03 (I don't think that makes any sense. It wasn't supposed to anyway.) 02:50:28 So a whole bunch of these isolation and consistency things are of the form "some graph has no cycles". 02:50:47 tracking data dependencies? 02:50:57 Including linearizability, sequential consistency, serializability. 02:51:10 And several of the other ones. 02:51:30 (Note that linearizability and sequential consistency aren't really isolation things.) 02:51:54 postgres implemented sequentially-consistent isolation fairly recently (and it's still non-default, I think, the previous situation / default was snapshot isolation) 02:51:59 The question is just what kinds of edges are in the graph. 02:52:12 Anyway, I can imagine that it gets very gritty if you try to make this formal. Heck, just modelling a changing set of tables should be fun. 02:52:37 and it does it with a complicated algorithm that's sort-of reminiscent of static analysis that tries to detect whether snapshot isolation is equivalent to sequentially-consistent in any given situation, and serializes only when it isn't 02:52:41 I don't think "sequentially-consistent" and "snapshot" are really contrasted with each other? I don't think I'd clal sequentially-consistent isolation at all. 02:53:01 Oh, do you mean serializable? 02:53:07 shachaf: right 02:53:24 same output as if everything was serialized 02:54:05 Too bad "serializable" and "linearizable" mean completely different things, and a system can be either one or neither or both. 02:54:17 What a great naming scheme. 02:55:35 Anyway, sequentially-consistent is about individual operations, and serializable is about transactions. 02:55:56 Of course, for multithreaded things, even sequential consistency of individual operations is much too strong most of the time. 03:43:13 [[UCanCode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120381&oldid=119502 * Viba1 * (-342) maybe writing this article in a self-deprecating tone was not a good idea. though, I still feel like keeping one of the borderline sentences 04:08:19 [[FunctionaI]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=120382 * Kiken * (+3450) Created page with "{{lowercase}} {{Distinguish/Confusion|Functional}} {{infobox proglang |name=FunctionaI |paradigms=[[:Category:Functional paradigm|Functional]] |author=[[User:kiken]] |year=[[:Category:2014|2014]] |class=[[:Turing complete|Turing complete]] |refimpl=[[:Category:Unimple 04:32:22 [[FunctionaI]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120383&oldid=120382 * Kiken * (+0) wrong year 04:55:20 -!- user3456 has quit (Quit: I use ZNC - https://znc.in). 04:55:46 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 04:57:45 -!- user3456 has joined. 05:43:42 [[2.+-]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120384&oldid=104993 * Squidmanescape * (-35) It isn't a finite-state automaton because it can't be used for computation. 05:44:11 [[2Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120385&oldid=119504 * Squidmanescape * (-35) 06:10:14 today's twist is good 06:48:35 [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120386&oldid=120367 * Kiken * (+17) /* F */ functionaI 07:22:36 -!- tromp has joined. 07:28:02 [[Foreach]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120387&oldid=113555 * Ashli Katt * (+4293) turing complete 07:29:54 [[Foreach]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120388&oldid=120387 * Ashli Katt * (+4) 07:31:01 [[Functional]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120389&oldid=74853 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+37) Distinguish confusion 07:32:51 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 07:32:57 [[FunctionaI]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120390&oldid=120383 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+42) Categories 07:34:50 [[Blockfunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120391&oldid=96954 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+25) /* Python */ Category 07:37:14 [[UCanCode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120392&oldid=120381 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+25) /* External links */ Category 07:38:16 -!- wpa has joined. 07:42:53 [[Aceto]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120393&oldid=53374 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+94) Categories 08:05:28 -!- tromp has joined. 08:09:54 [[User:Ashli Katt]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120394&oldid=109783 * Ashli Katt * (+49) 08:10:25 [[User:Ashli Katt]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120395&oldid=120394 * Ashli Katt * (+31) 09:06:36 makes sense, the multithread locks that we use are trying to be noops except in rare cases when two threads are trying to hold the lock at the same time 09:35:02 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:49:39 [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (nonalphabetic and A-M)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120396&oldid=120246 * MihaiEso * (+13) /* Buffalo! */ As a code block. 09:52:42 [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (nonalphabetic and A-M)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120397&oldid=120396 * MihaiEso * (+26) /* Deadsnail */ 09:53:56 [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (nonalphabetic and A-M)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120398&oldid=120397 * MihaiEso * (-1) /* Deadsnail */ 10:07:52 -!- wpa has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 10:18:28 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 10:19:10 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:21:24 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 10:49:15 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:50:53 [[DJN OISC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120399&oldid=73827 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+12) /* See also */ 10:52:41 [[Decleq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120400&oldid=120363 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+41) 11:10:39 [[Decleq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120401&oldid=120400 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+4) /* a=b=b-a with temporary address tmp<=0 */ 12:09:38 -!- tromp has joined. 12:51:06 [[Asdf]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120402&oldid=94824 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+38) /* Examples */ Added Cat 13:17:58 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:21:00 -!- Deepfriedice has joined. 13:43:56 [[8-Bit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120403&oldid=120346 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+332) 13:44:29 [[8-Bit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120404&oldid=120403 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-11) 13:47:45 -!- Thelie has joined. 13:48:35 [[8-Bit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120405&oldid=120404 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-55) 14:47:44 -!- tromp has joined. 15:11:53 [[2.+-]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120406&oldid=120384 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+35) Undo revision 120384 by [[Special:Contributions/Squidmanescape|Squidmanescape]] ([[User talk:Squidmanescape|talk]]) It's still a finite-state automaton 15:14:53 [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120407&oldid=120339 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+35) Undo revision 120339 by [[Special:Contributions/Squidmanescape|Squidmanescape]] ([[User talk:Squidmanescape|talk]]) It's still FSM even though it can't simulate any FSM 15:22:27 [[2Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120408&oldid=120385 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+35) Undo revision 120385 by [[Special:Contributions/Squidmanescape|Squidmanescape]] ([[User talk:Squidmanescape|talk]]) 15:26:34 -!- Thelie has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 15:39:35 -!- Koen_ has joined. 16:03:12 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz…). 18:16:14 -!- wpa has joined. 18:31:10 -!- tromp has joined. 19:24:12 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 20:35:02 [[User:BoundedBeans/CLC-INTERCAL code injection]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=120410 * BoundedBeans * (+2524) Created page with "While looking at CLC-INTERCAL's updated code in 2023, I noticed that the undocumented opcodes use eval to import the namespace of the statement. It doesn't perform any checks (a simple regex check for /[A-Za-z_][A-Za-z_0- 20:36:28 [[User:BoundedBeans]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=120411&oldid=120150 * BoundedBeans * (+156) 20:37:17 -!- __monty__ has joined. 20:48:12 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. 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