> 1715645588 640594 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Xenon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127918&oldid=127912 5* 03RhubarbJayde 5* (+1264) 10
> 1715646595 233910 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127919&oldid=127916 5* 03Joe 5* (+236) 10
< 1715646760 502819 :amby!~ambylastn@31.205.89.228 QUIT :Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement
> 1715649463 966847 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127920&oldid=127919 5* 03Joe 5* (+418) 10
> 1715649804 480408 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127921&oldid=127920 5* 03Joe 5* (+261) 10
> 1715649996 290702 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127922&oldid=127921 5* 03Joe 5* (+420) 10
< 1715650080 307143 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@user/meow/Noisytoot QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
> 1715650088 58323 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127923&oldid=127922 5* 03Joe 5* (+122) 10
< 1715650637 532036 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@user/meow/Noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron
< 1715650879 841509 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@user/meow/Noisytoot QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1715651040 54870 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@user/meow/Noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron
> 1715651041 1610 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127924&oldid=127923 5* 03Joe 5* (+30) 10
< 1715652235 305531 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@user/meow/Noisytoot QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1715652375 140827 :Noisytoot!~noisytoot@user/meow/Noisytoot JOIN #esolangs Noisytoot :Ron
< 1715664604 69900 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1715670542 873581 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1715671843 812229 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1715671973 960861 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated Batch (Mihai Popa)14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=127925 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+5043) 10Created page with "'''Translated Batch''' is an esolang made by Mihai Popa. It's Batch but horribly translated by ModernMT (however you can add more or choose a another pair of translators for an even more horrible translation!) See the PrySigneToFry version at: [[T
> 1715672059 958935 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03MihaiEso 5*  10moved [[02Translated Batch (Mihai Popa)10]] to [[Translated Batch/Mihai Popa]]
> 1715672081 642335 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated Batch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127928&oldid=127895 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+132) 10
> 1715672089 21518 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated Batch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127929&oldid=127928 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+1) 10
> 1715672097 311621 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated Batch/Mihai Popa14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127930&oldid=127926 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+1) 10
> 1715672223 786005 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Template:PrySigneToFry Version14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=127931 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+47) 10Created page with "'''See the PrySigneToFry version at: {{{1}}}'''"
> 1715672246 777483 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Template:PrySigneToFry Version14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127932&oldid=127931 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+4) 10Better
> 1715672293 603223 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated Batch/Mihai Popa14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127933&oldid=127930 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (-10) 10Used a template!
> 1715672323 706655 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03MihaiEso 5*  10moved [[02Template:PrySigneToFry Version10]] to [[Template:PrySigneToFry's Version]]: Better Grammar
> 1715672417 639142 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Template:MihaiEso's Version14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=127936 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+84) 10Created page with "'''Remember that this is the PrySigneToFry version. My version is at: [[{{{1}}}]]'''"
> 1715672442 213712 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated Batch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127937&oldid=127929 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (-48) 10Used a template!
> 1715672468 147024 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated Python/Mihai Popa14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=127938 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+2609) 10Created page with "'''Translated Python''' is a esolang made by Mihai Popa. It's Python but horribly translated by Baidu+Google Translate+Yandex+Papago+Microsoft (however you can add more or choose a another pair of translators for a even more horrible translation!) 
> 1715672533 940661 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated Python14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127939&oldid=127891 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+53) 10
< 1715673509 439975 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1715674140 364806 :Koen_!~Koen@2a04:cec0:1030:a251:9d68:45e2:1afb:d104 JOIN #esolangs * :Koen
< 1715678343 80311 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas
< 1715678398 623925 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :another day, another SMBC strip suspiciously similar to an xkcd strip: https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/new-word https://xkcd.com/326/
< 1715678478 768602 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :also airplane ticket selling sites still say "enter your name exactly as it's written on your travel document" even though the website rejects if you actually try to follow that. I think the website makers know that but they're using that instruction anyway for liability reasons.
< 1715679364 105144 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn JOIN #esolangs toonn :Unknown
> 1715680270 152063 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translation14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127940&oldid=127924 5* 03None1 5* (+5) 10Name should be the name of the esolang
< 1715684479 228146 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds
< 1715684627 83757 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
> 1715685118 362961 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Nanofunge14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=127941 5* 03None1 5* (+186) 10Created page with "I don't get it, what does the four numbers <code>5 5 3 3</code> at the beggining of the Nanofunge program mean? --~~~~"
> 1715686303 729871 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Xenon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127942&oldid=127918 5* 03RhubarbJayde 5* (+708) 10
< 1715686424 299095 :Koen_!~Koen@2a04:cec0:1030:a251:9d68:45e2:1afb:d104 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
> 1715687024 726967 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Nanofunge14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127943&oldid=127941 5* 03Int-e 5* (+352) 10relate to Nopfunge
> 1715688393 992928 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None1/BF14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127944&oldid=115958 5* 03None1 5* (+1329) 10
> 1715688407 390227 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None1/BF14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127945&oldid=127944 5* 03None1 5* (+7) 10/* Random number generator */
> 1715688630 204250 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None1/BF14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127946&oldid=127945 5* 03None1 5* (+54) 10/* Random number generator */
> 1715688772 114872 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Nanofunge14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127947&oldid=127943 5* 03None1 5* (+72) 10
> 1715688787 956855 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Nanofunge14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127948&oldid=127947 5* 03None1 5* (+12) 10
> 1715688891 743963 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Yoctofunge14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127949&oldid=127914 5* 03None1 5* (-1) 10/* Computational class */
> 1715689855 926966 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Xenon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127950&oldid=127942 5* 03RhubarbJayde 5* (+1931) 10
> 1715690621 796846 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Xenon14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127951&oldid=127950 5* 03RhubarbJayde 5* (+27) 10
< 1715690672 120235 :amby!~ambylastn@31.205.89.237 JOIN #esolangs amby :realname
> 1715693686 258892 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Xenon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127952&oldid=127951 5* 03RhubarbJayde 5* (+834) 10
< 1715693748 783464 :thaliaa!uid486183@id-486183.uxbridge.irccloud.com QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1715694119 723690 :Koen_!~Koen@2a04:cec0:1030:a251:87d:2fff:b737:cf4 JOIN #esolangs * :Koen
> 1715695747 64116 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07DQ14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127953&oldid=127695 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+0) 10/* esolang overview */
< 1715695777 732314 :Koen_!~Koen@2a04:cec0:1030:a251:87d:2fff:b737:cf4 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1715695879 616483 :Koen_!~Koen@2a04:cec0:1033:fd8:d104:be17:390e:665e JOIN #esolangs * :Koen
< 1715696189 609365 :Koen_!~Koen@2a04:cec0:1033:fd8:d104:be17:390e:665e QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1715696597 371497 :Koen_!~Koen@2a04:cec0:1028:a5be:858a:18f3:be99:ef03 JOIN #esolangs * :Koen
< 1715696776 394327 :Koen_!~Koen@2a04:cec0:1028:a5be:858a:18f3:be99:ef03 QUIT :Client Quit
> 1715697142 68720 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated Batch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127954&oldid=127937 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+112) 10
> 1715697311 175353 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated Batch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127955&oldid=127954 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+44) 10
> 1715698955 589834 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Bottles of beer on the wall14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=127956 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+3864) 10Created page with ""24900171313599407832425897376933679165362459398445696363073193628257649948866889545810849988015733095641019671881223802824461864094471296654034775611865127422980097344 04410431535280920585529925111845047848919686325627491135409490162639503603
> 1715698968 756507 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Bottles of beer on the wall14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127957&oldid=127956 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+118) 10
> 1715699031 493863 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Bottles of beer on the wall14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127958&oldid=127957 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+2) 10
> 1715699495 234571 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BracketsLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127959&oldid=88622 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+3) 10*What do the brackets do
> 1715699568 781991 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Ractangle14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127960&oldid=127906 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+76) 10
> 1715699621 186733 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Xenon14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127961&oldid=127952 5* 03RhubarbJayde 5* (+28) 10
> 1715700278 815472 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127962&oldid=127805 5* 03The8thsea 5* (+10) 10/* 1 < 0 */
> 1715703054 289614 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Gen Alpha14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=127963 5* 03Purah126 5* (+814) 10Created page with "Gen Alpha is a programming language created by [[User:Purah126]]. Programs in it are lists of things that gen alpha people would say. They are run in a simulated community of gen alpha children.  {{infobox proglang |name=Gen Alpha |paradigms=declarative, imperative |a
> 1715703066 805714 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Gen Alpha14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127964&oldid=127963 5* 03Purah126 5* (+3) 10
> 1715703739 696172 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Gen Alpha14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127965&oldid=127964 5* 03Purah126 5* (+1545) 10
> 1715703816 422366 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Gen Alpha14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127966&oldid=127965 5* 03Purah126 5* (+102) 10
> 1715704003 839491 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Purah12614]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127967&oldid=107742 5* 03Purah126 5* (+40) 10
> 1715704163 261057 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Gen Alpha14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127968&oldid=127966 5* 03Purah126 5* (+9) 10
> 1715704389 251299 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Gen Alpha14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127969&oldid=127968 5* 03Purah126 5* (+21) 10
> 1715704421 340542 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Gen Alpha14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127970&oldid=127969 5* 03Purah126 5* (+37) 10
> 1715704444 859818 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Gen Alpha14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127971&oldid=127970 5* 03Purah126 5* (+26) 10
> 1715704665 955644 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Gen Alpha14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127972&oldid=127971 5* 03Purah126 5* (+201) 10
> 1715704812 463271 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Gen Alpha14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127973&oldid=127972 5* 03Purah126 5* (+103) 10
> 1715705606 173387 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Gen Alpha14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127974&oldid=127973 5* 03Purah126 5* (+1493) 10
> 1715705637 535338 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Gen Alpha14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127975&oldid=127974 5* 03Purah126 5* (+104) 10
> 1715705796 362175 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Gen Alpha14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127976&oldid=127975 5* 03Purah126 5* (+16) 10
> 1715705955 872943 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Gen Alpha14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127977&oldid=127976 5* 03Purah126 5* (+250) 10
> 1715706077 59816 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Gen Alpha14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127978&oldid=127977 5* 03Purah126 5* (-15) 10
< 1715706322 539327 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed
> 1715706407 990047 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Gen Alpha14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127979&oldid=127978 5* 03Purah126 5* (+119) 10
> 1715707209 433941 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Gen Alpha14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127980&oldid=127979 5* 03Purah126 5* (+6) 10
< 1715716424 671865 :thaliaa!uid486183@id-486183.uxbridge.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs thaliaa :thaliaa
< 1715718621 911644 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Is there a public backup for permanent files (which can also be mirrored)? I would think how it would work is that each collection has a set of blobs each with a time stamp associated with it; existing records cannot be altered or deleted but new records can be added to an existing collection. (The timestamp may be helpful to recover from some kinds of compromised security)
< 1715720005 397102 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmpf another shapez puzzle where I don't know whether I'm missing something (here's one attempt: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-red-white-star-attempt.png ) or whether it has to be cheesed (https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-red-white-star-cheese.png )... there are no splitters and no garbage disposals so the usual way of exploiting the rotational symmetry doesn't work.
< 1715720082 823244 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: github (yeah I know that's not really checking all the boxes)
> 1715720371 580354 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Gen Alpha14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127981&oldid=127980 5* 03Purah126 5* (+6) 10
< 1715721089 64001 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1715721282 207980 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1715722145 622437 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: are those rotators for buffering extra items?
> 1715722623 910673 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Xenon14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127982&oldid=127961 5* 03RhubarbJayde 5* (+190) 10
< 1715723116 599713 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
> 1715724030 104160 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Greguov-Korec universal Minsky machine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127983&oldid=127850 5* 03Stkptr 5* (+4512) 10Add some stuff on the machine
< 1715724072 353651 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1715724261 209295 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
< 1715724712 375839 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: yes
< 1715724755 574143 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: and there's some editing and clearing items to the left to fill them (alternating between the shown picture and a variant with a painter)
< 1715724820 243417 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I mean I suspect I'm missing something but it's impossible to say for sure and I *have* seen puzzles that rely on shenanigans like this.
> 1715724894 504497 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Gen Alpha14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127984&oldid=127981 5* 03Stkptr 5* (+88) 10Add categories
> 1715724967 314995 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Gen Alpha14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127985&oldid=127984 5* 03Stkptr 5* (-11) 10Formatting
< 1715725101 2799 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :right
< 1715725350 339833 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Aw. We expanded the Gemini API (that I mentioned I was thinking of trying as an wiki question/answer chatbot) into UK (and EEA+CH) today, but it's only the paid tier, not the free one. :/
< 1715725370 898328 :fizzie!~irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm sure it's got to do with some laws somewhere, but it's still a sad.
< 1715726293 189637 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: Aha, I solved it properly.
< 1715726533 334412 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: so it was mostly the matter of taking a break and looking at things with a fresh(er) eye: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-red-white-star-solution.png
< 1715727131 158842 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: good to know. this channel likes SAT solvers so I'm half-expecting you to eventually use one to automate finding non-cheese solutions.
< 1715727144 236672 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or static solutions rather
< 1715727171 198289 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :honestly... it's too tedious too encode
< 1715727216 558446 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :indeed that cut in the top part of the solution is tricky
< 1715727272 700122 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :isn't it supposed to be tedious in a way that computers are good at?
< 1715727309 938371 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :you actually have to encode the shape computations as boolean formulas
< 1715727313 376080 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but yeah, I'm not sure you can encode it nicely enough for a SAT solver to understand
< 1715727396 13674 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :kind of, though you could perhaps do a pre-encode pass where you guess all the few hundred shapes that you can get from the inputs in a few steps and are plausibly useful for a solution, and then encode only those
< 1715727401 932166 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Plus, half of the puzzles use the double painter trick to effectively get a limited type of merger, and at that point it gets messy (you have more than one shape per belt). Oh and quite a few puzzles actually play with the throughput.
< 1715727430 30856 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it might not work on all puzzles of course
< 1715727447 928862 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :double painter for limited merger, accepting only balanced input... yes, that could be a problem
< 1715727454 280658 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah that kind of preprocessing is a good idea
< 1715727583 462752 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :especially since that's how I mostly do these as a human... look for recipes first and then try to fit in the required buildings
< 1715727609 248846 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :which can of course create blind spots :)
> 1715729418 821912 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bottles of beer on the wall14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127986&oldid=127731 5* 03None1 5* (+12) 10/* Hello World */
< 1715729447 644146 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I *have* contemplated making a solver for this but I think you need heavy heuristics for the search space not to explode. Which isn't my kind of fun.
> 1715729455 480239 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Bottles of beer on the wall14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=127987&oldid=127958 5* 03None1 5* (+106) 10
< 1715729672 357497 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: yeah, that's why I was thinking of SAT solvers. it's their kind of fun.
< 1715729696 938229 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :up to a point
< 1715729731 296566 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't know. Most of the actual puzzles are fun brain teasers, made by humans for humans :)
< 1715729734 183202 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but admittedly I'm also not a SAT solver guy and when I don't feel completely burned out from work I want to write very different programs than this kind
< 1715729794 630077 :user3456!user3456@user/user3456 JOIN #esolangs user3456 :user3456
< 1715729910 497520 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess I am a SAT guy, but there are constraints that are fun to express and constraints that are tedious... the kind of propagation of shapes through dynamically chosen paths and processors isn't the fun kind.
< 1715730109 761137 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :If you remember the reduction from NP to SAT you have new variables after each step of the original Turing Machine... more or less the same kind of thing would be necessary for the shape propagation.
< 1715730254 260460 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :And IME SAT solvers aren't particularly good at making sense of such encodings either; the dependencies tend to become too deep, and not very amenable to the "if that and that and that other thing, then this" kind of learned fact that CDCL (conflict-driven clause learning) can capture.
< 1715730263 16564 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :... I don't understand. if you limit yourself to no mergers (not even with a balancer or double painter) then isn't this an NP problem, at least if you make the input as long as there are free tiles to build on in the puzzle?
< 1715730283 609298 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :It is NP, yes.
< 1715730362 926897 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"aren't particularly good at making sense of such encodings" => is that when people are trying to write them in an adverserial way to make hard problems to evaluate which SAT solvers are the best at them, or also when they try to write them in a way that's as easy as possible for the SAT solver?
< 1715730374 424130 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :But SAT solvers don't automatically make NP easy. They're good at a great number of instances of NP-complete problems. But keep in mind that the underlying reductions can make problems significantly bigger.
< 1715730401 971316 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Like n steps in a TM become n^2 variables, give or take.
< 1715730456 78215 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sure
< 1715730457 461672 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :And as far as I can see the shapez puzzles are closer to a TM than to a graph problem.
< 1715730498 565898 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I may be wrong about that.
< 1715730610 17270 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess you can annotate each interface between buildings with a shape and that'll take care of most things. Plus an acyclicity constraint. Plus a liveness constraint of sorts if you have splitters.
< 1715730684 839740 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :technically the acyclicity constraint is also one you only need if you have splitters, but it might help simplify the problem anyway
< 1715730696 318692 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :since you don't have mergers I mean
< 1715730696 806855 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(imagine a cutter, with one output split, and then two mergers; the result will starve)
< 1715730723 170252 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait, if you want mergers then everything I said goes out of the window, and I can easily believe that it's a really hard probelm
< 1715730748 259134 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I mean stackers
< 1715730751 977727 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :sorry, too late
< 1715730768 72803 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(stackers merge shapes)
< 1715730772 53331 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm
< 1715730803 552117 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, you have a point
< 1715730825 969314 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the solution could lock up if you make it unbalanced then merge with stackers
< 1715730932 195772 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: a picture is probably clearer: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-starve.png
< 1715730943 668876 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I think you got what I meant
< 1715730953 40232 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah
< 1715730986 431693 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's not even the only kind of starve you can get, but yes, you can get starves
< 1715731085 543112 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :though you could hope that the puzzles are simple enough that you won't get false solutions if you allow starves, or at least you can encode a limited partial starve detection and won't get any false solution that that allows
< 1715731130 418300 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I know it's not guaranteed, and may depend on the style of puzzle
< 1715731152 658823 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and relatedly, if you only annotate interfaces with shapes, this construction could consistently produce any shape: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-source.png