00:01:11 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
00:04:37 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
00:13:47 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
00:15:49 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined.
00:57:16 <esolangs> [[!English]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128557&oldid=128474 * MihaiEso * (-49) Removed broken link (deleted by a admin).
01:08:04 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
01:08:22 -!- Sgeo has joined.
01:32:36 -!- amby has quit (Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement).
05:22:52 -!- tromp has joined.
05:30:07 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
05:33:18 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
05:44:03 <esolangs> [[Shell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128558&oldid=128554 * Ractangle * (+2) /* Truth-machine */
05:44:11 -!- tromp has joined.
05:44:50 <esolangs> [[Shell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128559&oldid=128558 * Ractangle * (+23) /* Truth-machine */
05:48:24 <esolangs> [[Shell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128560&oldid=128559 * Ractangle * (+63)
05:48:34 <esolangs> [[Shell]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128561&oldid=128560 * Ractangle * (+1) /* Truth-machine */
06:27:30 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128562&oldid=128419 * Ractangle * (+326) /* PokBattle */
06:27:57 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128563&oldid=128562 * Ractangle * (+6) /* Postrado */
06:29:10 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
06:35:43 -!- tromp has joined.
06:54:32 <esolangs> [['basic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128564&oldid=128546 * Ractangle * (+104)
06:54:41 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
07:21:47 -!- Koen_ has joined.
07:30:41 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128565&oldid=128173 * Ractangle * (-808) Fuck the unimplemented libraries and stuff
07:41:59 -!- tromp has joined.
07:49:17 -!- b_jonas has quit (Quit: leaving).
08:24:29 -!- __monty__ has joined.
08:49:04 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
08:49:58 -!- chiselfuse has joined.
08:59:27 -!- moony8929 has joined.
09:01:13 -!- moony892 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
09:01:14 -!- dnm_ has joined.
09:01:14 -!- dnm has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
09:01:16 -!- moony8929 has changed nick to moony892.
09:01:19 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
09:01:20 -!- V has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds).
09:01:39 -!- V has joined.
10:13:04 <esolangs> [[()s]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128566&oldid=86584 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+669) Supplemented two further example programs, one being a repeating cat program, the other a looping counter.
10:14:10 <esolangs> [[()s]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128567&oldid=128566 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+160) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the {}s programming language on GitHub and altered the Unimplemented category tag to Implemented.
10:43:51 -!- tromp has joined.
12:17:34 -!- amby has joined.
12:43:47 -!- lynndotpy has quit (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)).
12:44:03 -!- lynndotpy has joined.
12:54:35 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * AnyPuter * New user account
13:06:53 -!- Koen__ has joined.
13:08:23 -!- Koen_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
13:10:59 -!- Koen__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
13:11:18 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128568&oldid=128479 * AnyPuter * (+217) /* Introductions */
13:21:28 <esolangs> [[Xand]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=128569 * Yourusername * (+513) Created page with "Xand is a programming language that is a OISC, x, y, z -> x = ((x xor y) and z) == Not === (a) a, 1, 1 #a will be negated, 0 to 1, 1 to 0, numbers turn into binary, 4 -> 100, 8 -> 1000 == And === (a, b) a, 0, b #a and b will be combined, 1, 1 -> 1, else 0 == Nand =
13:21:43 <esolangs> [[Xand]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128570&oldid=128569 * Yourusername * (-2)
13:27:04 <esolangs> [[Xand]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128571&oldid=128570 * Yourusername * (+99)
13:28:40 <esolangs> [[Xand]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128572&oldid=128571 * Yourusername * (+53)
13:44:41 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
13:48:50 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox/Sandbin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128573&oldid=127134 * Froginstarch * (+14) /* Ironlang */
13:50:49 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox/Sandbin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128574&oldid=128573 * Froginstarch * (+17) /* Slammer */
13:51:31 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox/Sandbin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128575&oldid=128574 * Froginstarch * (-1) /* Slammer */
13:53:07 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox/Sandbin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128576&oldid=128575 * Froginstarch * (+38) /* Slammer */
13:54:48 -!- tromp has joined.
14:25:08 -!- Koen_ has joined.
14:53:08 <esolangs> [['basic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128577&oldid=128564 * Ractangle * (+75) /* Commands */
14:55:47 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Washi * New user account
14:59:01 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128578&oldid=128568 * Washi * (+242) /* Introductions */
15:32:51 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128579&oldid=127501 * Washi * (+700) /* Mathematics */ added "WAKE"
15:34:30 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128580&oldid=128579 * Washi * (+55) /* Mathematics */
16:12:33 <esolangs> [[Talk:A-DU]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=128581 * Washi * (+959) Created page with "I'm a fan of Linear A, plus I'm a fan of partially-usable esolangs, so take or leave these suggestions! * PO-TO-KU-RO could always mark the module end? * Thought: A-DU has ten commodity types. Can those types be overloaded with actual program-type definitions? ** e.g.
16:13:13 <esolangs> [[Talk:A-DU]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128582&oldid=128581 * Washi * (+105)
16:21:57 <esolangs> [[Talk:A-DU]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128583&oldid=128582 * Washi * (+612) /* Speculative Suggestions */
16:25:25 <esolangs> [[Talk:A-DU]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128584&oldid=128583 * Washi * (+114) /* Speculative Suggestions */
16:26:04 <esolangs> [[Talk:A-DU]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128585&oldid=128584 * Washi * (+6) /* Speculative Suggestions */
16:34:14 <esolangs> [[Talk:A-DU]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128586&oldid=128585 * Washi * (-36) /* Speculative Suggestions */
16:43:10 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
17:34:43 <esolangs> [['basic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128587&oldid=128577 * Ractangle * (-74) /* Commands */
17:35:51 <esolangs> [['basic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128588&oldid=128587 * Ractangle * (+40)
17:43:29 <esolangs> [[Talk:0 bytes XD]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=128589 * Ractangle * (+183) Created page with "it's time for me to port this truth-machine esolang into python ~~~~"
17:50:28 <esolangs> [[0 bytes XD]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128590&oldid=127008 * Ractangle * (+75) snake
17:51:01 <esolangs> [[0 bytes XD]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128591&oldid=128590 * Ractangle * (+8) /* Python */
18:10:46 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Mari * New user account
18:16:06 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128592&oldid=128578 * Mari * (+235) add Introduction
18:18:19 <esolangs> [[User:Mari]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=128593 * Mari * (+4) mrrp
18:28:40 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Mr. System Error * New user account
18:36:08 <esolangs> [[Caca]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=128594 * Mari * (+1730) create page and add some stuff
18:36:54 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128595&oldid=128592 * Mr. System Error * (+379) /* Introductions */
18:46:00 -!- Koen_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:36:29 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox/Sandbin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128596&oldid=128576 * PaxtonPenguin * (+21) Cat
19:39:50 <esolangs> [[Caca]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128597&oldid=128594 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+146) Formatting, categories
19:42:35 <esolangs> [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=128598 * Ractangle * (+97) Created page with "{{Stub}} '''''' (pronounsed as Delta) is a esolang created by [[User:Ractangle]] ==Commands=="
19:44:03 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128599&oldid=128552 * Ractangle * (+64)
19:46:47 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * PaxtonPenguin * uploaded "[[File:Peepy.jpeg]]": I didn't make this, but it is public domain. (It's an image off of the website where you can buy these things)
19:47:07 <esolangs> [[User:PaxtonPenguin]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128601&oldid=127570 * PaxtonPenguin * (+25)
19:58:21 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ractangle * moved [[]] to [[Byte]]
19:59:57 <esolangs> [[Byte]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128604&oldid=128602 * Ractangle * (-1037)
20:00:56 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128605&oldid=128599 * Ractangle * (-6) /* Language List */
20:01:27 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128606&oldid=128605 * Ractangle * (-11) /* Language List */
20:01:44 <esolangs> [[Byte]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128607&oldid=128604 * Ractangle * (-14)
20:06:04 -!- dnm_ has changed nick to dnm.
20:06:32 -!- dnm has quit.
20:06:49 -!- dnm has joined.
20:07:23 -!- ais523 has joined.
20:24:28 <esolangs> [[Byte]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128608&oldid=128607 * Ractangle * (+65)
20:25:30 <esolangs> [[Guh]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128609&oldid=128284 * Ractangle * (+52)
20:52:38 <esolangs> [[Caca]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128610&oldid=128597 * Mari * (+423) fix truth machine
21:04:57 <esolangs> [[Caca]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128611&oldid=128610 * Mari * (+321) add mention of Guh
21:09:18 <esolangs> [[Caca]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128612&oldid=128611 * Mari * (+26) Formatting
21:11:28 <esolangs> [[Caca]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128613&oldid=128612 * Mari * (+164) /* Trivia */ add Nucaca?/Zecaca? trivia
21:13:12 <esolangs> [[Caca]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128614&oldid=128613 * Mari * (+4) /* Trivia */
21:13:56 <esolangs> [[Caca]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128615&oldid=128614 * Mari * (+24) add Implementations
21:17:01 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Mari * uploaded "[[File:I caca.png]]"
21:18:21 <esolangs> [[Caca]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128617&oldid=128615 * Mari * (+185) add I caca sticker
21:32:40 -!- Koen_ has joined.
21:38:29 <esolangs> [[Caca]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128618&oldid=128617 * Mari * (+78) make specification more clear
21:41:56 <int-e> Somebody has played M:tG before. https://www.egscomics.com/comic/hope-063
21:45:22 <int-e> on CHERI and memcpy(): "If buffer happens to be aligned to alignof(void*) at run time, memcpy() will copy the tag bits since an appropriate memory operation will be used." (UCAM-CL-TR-949, see https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/research/security/ctsrd/cheri/cheri-publications.html#techreports)
21:47:01 <int-e> (I'm not reading this in any detail, I just searched for "memcpy")
22:10:30 <zzo38> So it can be copied but only if it is aligned.
22:16:24 <zzo38> I thought you could have, alignment is not necessary but if there is one tag bit per byte, and a capability address has one byte with the tag bit clear (which will be unused, but must be clear to delimit it from other data) and the other bits set; any operation to copy memory or to read from memory into a register or to write into memory from registers, will have to check.
22:17:24 <zzo38> It will refuse to copy the memory if the block being copied has a part of a capability address but not an entire capability address. It would also refuse to perform arithmetic or bitwise operations on such a value, or to even use it as an address (only the kernel is allowed to do so); the only thing that can be done is to copy it.
22:18:01 <zzo38> Although that is not necessarily the best way. I don't know if how CHERI is doing is best way either though.
22:26:33 <ais523> I think they aren't sure whether it's the best way or not, either
22:26:40 <ais523> but are making a serious attempt to find out
22:27:32 * int-e doubts that there is a single best way... there's no clear objective function here
22:28:57 <int-e> it looks like an impressive project regardless
22:32:14 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
22:32:19 <zzo38> Yes, there probably isn't a single best way anyways. However, it also depend what should be achieved by it. For example, my idea is that tagged addresses are only needed for capability addresses and not for addresses in user programs.
22:33:23 -!- chiselfuse has joined.
22:34:28 <int-e> that wouldn't do a whole lot to limit the attack surface for buffer overruns and the like
22:35:33 -!- __monty__ has quit (Quit: leaving).
22:39:21 -!- Sgeo has joined.
22:39:48 <ais523> I think my favourite approach is to use a static analysis to ensure that a program can't use capabilities that it doesn't have, but that isn't backwards-compatible with existing programs
22:39:50 <zzo38> I think you are right, although it adds a different security.
22:40:07 <ais523> i.e. I'm still in favour of solving things with type systems / at compile time rather than at runtime
22:40:47 <ais523> although, you'd either need to do the analysis at runtime (which would require available source and would be slow) or else to have some sort of unforgeable certificate that the analysis had been performed
22:41:27 <zzo38> For buffer overruns, etc I think that would be the way to do. However, for capability-based security across processes, I think that won't work, and the reasons you mention some of the difficulties
22:45:19 <zzo38> Security within a program can be solved at compile time. Security across programs is probably better to solve at run time, I think.
22:54:28 <ais523> I did start trying to design an API for passing capabilities between programs, but didn't finish it
22:56:55 <zzo38> I also was trying to do: A message consists of a sequence of bytes and/or capabilities. You can send a message to a capability and can receive a message from a capability. There will also be a function to create a new capability (called a "proxy capability") that whoever created it can handle receiving messages sent to it, and send messages to be received by others who are given this capability.
22:59:20 <zzo38> I don't know if additional functions may be needed for locking/transactions that involve multiple objects, or how to handle them if there are such functions in case the multiple objects don't know each other.
23:01:52 <zzo38> What is your way, though?
23:07:03 <ais523> my idea was for running programs to have a similar API to calling functions, the execve equivalent would allow capabilities as extra arguments, and then (ideally) the OS would transfer the capabilities over
23:07:30 <ais523> but, for backwards compatibility I was planning to have much of the work actually done by a custom dynamic loader (i.e. not ld-linux.so) so that I didn't need to change the kernel itself
23:07:57 <ais523> (but it would make use of OS capabilities in cases where they were helpful)
23:09:29 <zzo38> I had no intention of backward compatibility, so there is no "execve" function (the equivalent function is a capability, not a function); however, about transfering capabilities using it, I did consider that; a program will receive an initial message, and this initial message will include capabilities (if it does not, then the program would immediately be terminated, since it would be unable to do any I/O)
23:44:26 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Leaving...).
23:49:22 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128619&oldid=128563 * Mari * (+468) add caca's truth machine
23:55:24 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128620&oldid=128530 * Mari * (+11) add caca to list
23:56:04 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128621&oldid=128620 * Mari * (+28) add caca tagline
23:56:41 <esolangs> [[Caca]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=128622&oldid=128618 * Mari * (+52)