00:32:59 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme/ternary logic gates]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=131217 * Tommyaweosme * (+250) Created page with "te 012 0012 1120 2201 se 012 0012 1122 2222 ke 012 0012 1121 2210 de 012 0012 1120 2200 re 012 210 fe 012 120 le 012 102 he 012 021 note that binary logic gates will also work fine and 2 inputs will b
00:41:36 <esolangs> [[Talk:Base64 Text]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131218&oldid=131215 * MihaiEso * (+205)
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02:31:05 <zzo38> How to disable drag/drop in Firefox?
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04:53:41 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * None1 * moved [[BF]] to [[BF (BestCoder)]]: You shouldn't overwrite redirects to existing languages
04:56:29 <esolangs> [[BF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131221&oldid=131220 * None1 * (+133) Disambiguation page
04:56:49 <esolangs> [[BF]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131222&oldid=131221 * None1 * (+0)
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07:47:06 <esolangs> [[Template:Disambig]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131223&oldid=68918 * MihaiEso * (+34)
07:48:22 <esolangs> [[Category:Disambiguation pages]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=131224 * MihaiEso * (+208) Created page with "This is a catalog of disambiguation pages, pages that are associated with this title. If you came here from another page, then the link you followed should be updated to point directly to one of these pages."
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08:56:05 <esolangs> [[KICK THAT HABIT MAN]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131225&oldid=128421 * Salpynx * (+27)
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09:19:41 <esolangs> [[Category talk:Disambiguation pages]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=131226 * None1 * (+132) Created page with "The same as [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Disambig]]. --~~~~"
09:19:49 <esolangs> [[BASE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131227&oldid=130975 * Ractangle * (+4) /* Cat program */
09:21:37 <esolangs> [[BASE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131228&oldid=131227 * Ractangle * (+1) /* Cat program */
09:21:57 <esolangs> [[BASE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131229&oldid=131228 * Ractangle * (+4) /* Deadfish implementation */
09:22:12 <esolangs> [[BASE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131230&oldid=131229 * Ractangle * (+9) /* FizzBuzz */
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09:23:00 <esolangs> [[BASE/Other esolang implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131231&oldid=131025 * Ractangle * (+2) /* 'xxx' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file. */
09:43:04 <esolangs> [[BASE]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131232&oldid=131230 * None1 * (+0)
09:44:14 <esolangs> [[BASE/Other esolang implementations]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131233&oldid=131231 * None1 * (+14) Back
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09:50:10 <esolangs> [[Wikitables]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131234&oldid=131190 * None1 * (+30) /* Calculators */
09:54:06 <esolangs> [[Wikitables]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131235&oldid=131234 * None1 * (+188) /* Commands */
09:58:10 <esolangs> [[Wikitables]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131236&oldid=131235 * None1 * (+212) /* Commands */
10:01:31 <esolangs> [[Wikitables]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131237&oldid=131236 * None1 * (+256)
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10:26:31 <esolangs> [[BASE/Other esolang implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131238&oldid=131233 * MihaiEso * (+100)
10:32:34 <esolangs> [[Gibberish/JavaScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131239&oldid=97010 * None1 * (+20) /* Oscillator */
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10:58:05 <esolangs> [[W110]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131240&oldid=131216 * PkmnQ * (+182)
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11:25:18 <esolangs> [[BASE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131241&oldid=131232 * PkmnQ * (-41) /* Examples */ not a quine
11:40:49 <esolangs> [[3 Bits, 3 Bytes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131242&oldid=128988 * None1 * (+23) /* See also */
11:43:18 <esolangs> [[5 Bits, 20 Bytes]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131243&oldid=130923 * None1 * (+61)
11:44:28 <esolangs> [[5 Bits, 20 Bytes]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131244&oldid=131243 * None1 * (+31)
11:51:48 <esolangs> [[5 Bits, 20 Bytes]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131245&oldid=131244 * None1 * (+251)
11:54:07 <esolangs> [[5 Bits, 20 Bytes]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131246&oldid=131245 * None1 * (+50) /* Hello World */
12:03:21 <esolangs> [[5 Bits, 20 Bytes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131247&oldid=131246 * None1 * (+58) /* Example programs */
12:03:48 <esolangs> [[5 Bits, 20 Bytes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131248&oldid=131247 * None1 * (+0) /* See also */
12:04:08 <esolangs> [[5 Bits, 20 Bytes]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131249&oldid=131248 * None1 * (-11) /* Hello World */
12:04:57 <esolangs> [[6 bits, 12 bytes]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131250&oldid=129661 * None1 * (+37) /* Examples */
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12:59:52 <esolangs> [[5 Bits, 20 Bytes]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131251&oldid=131249 * None1 * (+73) /* Quine (cheating) */
13:02:06 <esolangs> [[5 Bits, 20 Bytes]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131252&oldid=131251 * None1 * (+1) /* Example programs */
13:19:39 <esolangs> [[5 Bits, 20 Bytes]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131253&oldid=131252 * None1 * (+64) /* Hello World */
13:22:53 <esolangs> [[5 Bits, 20 Bytes]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131254&oldid=131253 * None1 * (+15) /* Hello World */
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14:41:28 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131255&oldid=131110 * Tommyaweosme * (-135) /* ads */
14:59:23 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Tommyaweosme * uploaded "[[File:Active denial system.png]]": my signature is there to prevent ai scraping. this is somehow related to esolangs i guess?
15:01:32 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131257&oldid=131178 * Tommyaweosme * (+316) /* WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?!?!? */
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15:46:54 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131258&oldid=131255 * MihaiEso * (+46) /* other stuff */
16:16:57 <b_jonas> fungot, have you featured a new language on the wiki yet?
16:16:59 <fungot> b_jonas: it at least.... clear it out after people look?
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16:49:31 <b_jonas> https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2024-06-19.html#lK a language that can't hard-code arbitrary amounts of data, but can take arbitrary amounts if data as input and run an interpreter that way => hmm, like eodermdrome? I can also imagine getting something like that naturally from a collectible card game where the program is your deck.
16:52:52 <int-e> I mean... for any language that's TC you can define a version with constrained source code size that will, technically, satisfy that constraint and still be TC.
16:54:20 <b_jonas> https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2024-06-22.html#lM coat: why 20th? I think the topic said "20th anniversary" at some point, but the "anniversary" got eroded off. the channel's official birthdate is 2002-12-09.
16:54:54 <b_jonas> int-e: yes, ais523 linked to https://esolangs.org/wiki/%E2%84%92
17:00:06 <b_jonas> ais523 https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2024-06-22.html#lXb : indeed, which is why on Stack Exchange, when site (diamond) moderator candidates give their campaign statement before an election, the first question they are asked is "How would you deal with a user who produced a steady stream of valuable answers, but tends to generate a large number of arguments/flags from comments?"
17:06:47 <b_jonas> salpynx https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2024-06-23.html#l3c => I felt called out by https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieqsL5NkS6I "finish the esolang you promised us" :(
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17:10:39 <int-e> This "war" terminology bothers me quite a bit.
17:11:24 <b_jonas> salpynx: joke language could work, but what I'd advise instead is to just create an article about the original (non-esoteric) machine language, and explain how that interesting feature is essnetial to the language
17:15:47 <b_jonas> https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2024-06-24.html#lZ => the impressive part is how much they manage to be compatible between Intel and AMD CPUs.
17:18:27 <fizzie> Those logs URLs are now kinda long with the "network-channel" bit in it. :/
17:21:44 <b_jonas> salpynx https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2024-06-24.html#leb => see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HSjJU562e8 on an Atari 2600 game that leaks its own source code on the game video, but it turns out it only leaks the bottom seven bits of every other byte
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17:39:57 <b_jonas> you could also get a language with limited space for hard-coding into the program but being able to interpret an unlimited amount of data if you just take an abstract version of an ordinary real-world computer with a limited amount of RAM (let's say 128 gigabytes) and ordinary disk space, but an unlimited slow storage device, and take the natural choice that the program is in the RAM and disk, while the
17:40:03 <b_jonas> input and output are on the unlimited slow storage (with space left for temporary data as well)
17:41:00 <b_jonas> or the input and output come from the internet, and the computer gets access to some unlimited storage subscription through the internet for use as temporary storage
17:43:32 <b_jonas> your 128 gigabytes of RAM and 192 terabytes of disk space is enough for any practical program that you'd want to express, but not infinite in theory
17:43:53 <b_jonas> and of course you need much less for universality
17:46:20 <b_jonas> yes, in both space and time, since your theoretical program might be very slow
17:47:10 <b_jonas> the subscription still has to be repeatedly renewed Boltzmann-brain months from now
17:49:54 <zzo38> I think MIX (Knuth) would allow tapes to be theoretically unlimited (and slow), but the RAM is very small compared with modern computers.
17:50:01 <b_jonas> and more -- Boltzmann-brain months is only roughly like 2**(2**(2**10)) months after all
17:54:47 <b_jonas> int-e: the storage doesn't even need to be immediately unlimited capacity. if it's infinitely renewable and the liminf of the storage capacity by time is infinite that's enough for us.
17:56:03 <int-e> I guess realistically you'll run out of time before you run out of space for storing data. Unless you go the gray goo route.
17:58:15 <b_jonas> an inappropriate HHGG quote comes into my mind: “The statistical likelihood is that other civilizations will arise. There will one day be lemon-soaked paper napkins. Till then, there will be a short delay.”, even though that's talking about less than heat-death months of delay, an exponential less than Boltzmann-brain months
18:01:22 <b_jonas> int-e: actually someone claimed to me that you run out of space first, though I don't understand the cosmology enough to tell if that's true, that is, they claimed that if you have a civilization whose sphere of colinizing new galaxies expands at near-lightspeed (just assume they develop faster and faster ships during), then they run out of theoretically reachable galaxies before they run out of time,
18:01:28 <b_jonas> as in, before all the stars go out
18:01:34 <b_jonas> I'd like to hear from someone who understands the physics whether this is true
18:03:12 <int-e> sorry that's too esoteric for me :)
18:03:34 <int-e> I wouldn't know what meaningful numbers to plug into what formulas to arrive at a conclusion
18:03:36 <b_jonas> yeah, I was just wondering if I'm having discussions too strange for this channel
18:11:08 <b_jonas> to be honest I should be *hoping* or rooting for that you run out of space first. I have this idea that from the point of view of the anthropic principle, where we want interesting intelligent life to arise and survive, it's a good thing that we are stuck on a planet alone in the middle of vast empty space for a while, and we expect other beings to be similarly stuck, and a few millenia ago people were
18:11:14 <b_jonas> stuck in even smaller parts of the globe with not even the mightiest ruler being able to dream of conqering the majority of beings on the planet. this reduces the likelihood that an *uninteresting* growing pattern takes over the whole universe or the whole planet quickly, thus not allowing interesting beings to arise. similarly that's why beings have to compete for limited resources, it means there
18:11:20 <b_jonas> won't just be an uninteresting pattern expanding without requiring any resources for growth taking over before beings develop interesting strategies to better fight for those limited resources. if you run out of space first that means that there's a final barrier, that even at the most advanced technological level you can't conquer the whole universe, and so there's multiple chances for an interesting
18:11:26 <b_jonas> universe-wide civilization to arise somewhere.
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18:12:22 <b_jonas> light-speed barrier for search purposes
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18:14:12 <b_jonas> (this explains why the universe was designed with finite light-speed and nonzero gravity, but doesn't explain, at least to my limited understanding, why we need quantum mechanics)
18:37:27 <esolangs> [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131259&oldid=131008 * Gilbert189 * (+669) /* Ideas related to esoteric operating systems, esoteric processors and esoteric computers */
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19:51:52 <esolangs> [[BASE/Other esolang implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131260&oldid=131238 * Ractangle * (+236)
19:52:16 <esolangs> [[BASE/Other esolang implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131261&oldid=131260 * Ractangle * (+1) /* + */
19:56:51 <esolangs> [[BASE/Other esolang implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131262&oldid=131261 * Ractangle * (-48)
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20:01:30 <esolangs> [[BASE/Other esolang implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131263&oldid=131262 * Ractangle * (+276)
20:01:45 <esolangs> [[BASE/Other esolang implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131264&oldid=131263 * Ractangle * (-1) /* +- */
20:01:56 <esolangs> [[BASE/Other esolang implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131265&oldid=131264 * Ractangle * (-2) /* +-= */
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20:52:52 <esolangs> [[BASE/Other esolang implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131266&oldid=131265 * Ractangle * (+279)
20:53:20 <esolangs> [[BASE/Other esolang implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131267&oldid=131266 * Ractangle * (+5) /* ,() */
20:55:50 <esolangs> [[BASE/Other esolang implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131268&oldid=131267 * Ractangle * (+40) /* ,() */
21:00:13 <esolangs> [[BASE/Other esolang implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131269&oldid=131268 * Ractangle * (+142)
21:07:01 <esolangs> [[BASE/Other esolang implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131270&oldid=131269 * Ractangle * (+18)
21:07:29 <esolangs> [[BASE/Other esolang implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131271&oldid=131270 * Ractangle * (+1) /* 0 */
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23:33:30 <salpynx> if the thread above is on realising practical infinite storage for TCness, I think the limiting factor is energy, not space (or time?).
23:33:45 <salpynx> There seems there could be many ways to arrange stuff within a finite space to give infinite configurations.
23:33:59 <salpynx> At the very least, stand on the edge of the universe and throw a rock n meters further out, then keep extending it as far as you need.
23:35:26 <salpynx> you don't need infinite stuff, just infinite reconfiguration, (and both boil down to energy anyway)
23:37:47 <esolangs> [[Domain]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=131272 * Snacked * (+3899) lol
23:37:48 <salpynx> There's a bit in David Deutsch's book The Fabric of Reality that suggests (a serious?) way to get infinite computation under extreme conditions, I can't recall the details
23:38:21 <esolangs> [[Domain]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131273&oldid=131272 * Snacked * (-25)
23:39:04 <salpynx> ... I think everying is destoryed, but it's ok because we can all live forever in the resulting infinite simulation nano-seconds before the end of the universe.
23:39:36 <esolangs> [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (D-G)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131274&oldid=128048 * Snacked * (+47) yes
23:41:02 <esolangs> [[List of quines]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131275&oldid=130281 * Snacked * (+35) ok
23:42:17 <salpynx> I wasn't especially convinced, but I hadn't read a description of something quite like that before.
23:45:56 <esolangs> [[99 bottles of beer]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131276&oldid=128420 * Snacked * (+712) ghghgfh
23:52:13 <salpynx> The idea is called Omega Point Theory, by someone named Tipler. Apparently it is a serious cosmological idea.
23:56:21 <b_jonas> salpynx: my tangent wasn't really about realizing infinite storage, and even if infinite storage were impossible, my question about the ultimate limits for a quickly expanding civilization remains
23:57:39 <b_jonas> "arrange stuff within a finite space to give infinite configurations" is impossible I believe, because of the weird quantum mechanical information limit
23:58:57 <b_jonas> as for the infinite computation in our universe, there's a pop science book by Paul Davies about that