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03:30:24 <Sgeo> Maybe 1401 except instructions don't need to begin with a word mark is an esolang. 140lax? 1401ax?
04:53:34 <esolangs> [[User talk:Hex96]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131376&oldid=131329 * None1 * (+178) /* Other Chat and questions */
05:00:15 <esolangs> [[Talk:End]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131377&oldid=94687 * None1 * (+177)
05:00:41 <esolangs> [[Talk:End]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131378&oldid=131377 * None1 * (+76)
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06:12:22 <esolangs> [[Never Gonna Fuck You Up]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131379&oldid=122620 * Salpynx * (+379) interpreter making a point about low information density of some trivial substitutions
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07:59:53 <b_jonas> what the HECK is with automatic translations on websites these days? youtube showing translated video titles? auction websites showing automatically translated project descriptions? are you CRAZY?
08:03:14 <sbak> yeah that should really be an opt-in toggle
08:19:24 <int-e> You have to use LLMs or they'll go stale...
08:48:15 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131380&oldid=131345 * Ractangle * (+167)
08:52:19 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131381&oldid=131362 * Ractangle * (-253) /* Implementations */
08:56:46 <sbak> int-e: I have been very annoyed at the seeming need for people to put LLMs absolutely everywhere lately
08:57:00 <sbak> oftentimes in places they aren't suited to
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09:10:22 <fizzie> I was just about to put an LLM on this channel. <suitable emoji to indicate embarrassment>
09:10:52 <fizzie> (For some relatively flexible value of "just about".)
09:22:14 <b_jonas> sbak: what, like in a typesetting engine?
09:22:26 <sbak> I saw that video lol
09:22:48 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131382&oldid=131380 * None1 * (-341) Clean up the sandbox
09:23:31 <b_jonas> fizzie: is the plan still to connect it through fungot by the way?
09:23:31 <fungot> b_jonas: fnord/ exec/ obidos/ asin/ fnord/ fnord/ fnord
09:23:34 <sbak> no I mean more using large AI models to do things like make decisions instead of humans or... generally most times when there's little to no oversight
09:24:00 <HackEso> paralcoin nefixtcoin judiccoin quodqucoin cosidecoin q-balcoin aduzcoin requantsprocoin poscoin pulacoin anypholtcoin chargcoin baticoin fteeshworkcoin seasercoin boncoin cincoin *wcoin 218coin hexcoin
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09:25:54 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ractangle]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=131383 * None1 * (+334) Created page with "{| class="wikitable" |- | oh my god what the frick happend to the page? [[User:Ractangle|Ractangle]] (If you have any questions contact me at Discord, belarusianflag) 08:48, 27 June 2024 (UTC) |} Someone was edit warring, I've cleaned up the sandbox anyway. --
09:25:55 <b_jonas> also, did we fail to change the password again?
09:25:55 <sbak> like for example, some websites have taken to having fake "customer service chats" that use an LLM chatbot, which will routinely make things up about offerings, prices, specs of products...
09:26:48 <sbak> the Google search aggregator is also an infamous example of what I mean
09:29:05 <b_jonas> I've heard people complain about google search but I didn't notice the problem myself despite using it regularly. maybe it's because I'm already used to skipping to the start of search results anyway, trained to do that because there are often sponsored links above them
09:29:30 <sbak> the google AI hasn't been rolled out to my country, so I couldn't say
09:29:32 <fizzie> b_jonas: No, just sharing the same computer. It'd be through the esolangs bot, I have a hilariously overcomplicated architecture for it.
09:29:46 <fizzie> The bot already exposes a homegrown proto-based RPC service (I've call "brpc") over a Unix domain socket, so it doesn't need to change at all. But there'd be a C++ client on the same VPS as the bot, which would then make a HTTPS request to the machine fungot's running on, where there would be a Go HTTP server, which would then spawn a C++ binary that runs the inference.
09:29:47 <fungot> fizzie: increase the length and width are disjoint, for other reasons, such as static type or other such formats, probably in many other cases, however, to move the problem one level up
09:30:19 <fizzie> (The last two are separate binaries so that it's easier to unload the model when it's been idle for a while.)
09:30:28 <b_jonas> ok, as long as the architecture is hilariously overcomplicated in some other way than using fungot it's fine
09:30:28 <fungot> b_jonas: it doesn't. that's called diversity. we schemers live of that stuff works, " voted 1" sounds like something a washing machine
09:30:53 <sbak> fungot is written in Funge-98, isn't it?
09:30:53 <fungot> sbak: damn you mikeriley!!
09:31:02 <fizzie> Oh, and the Go server also does HTTP requests to the MediaWiki search API to get the content.
09:31:12 <fungot> https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98
09:31:25 <sbak> nice. I'm impressed
09:31:47 <b_jonas> and his source code fits on a shirt
09:32:24 <b_jonas> or maybe just the interesting part of the source code?
09:32:29 <b_jonas> I don't remember how that worked
09:32:52 <fizzie> My shirt's the bit that generates those babbling replies, it's missing the IRC bits and the brainfuck/underload bits.
09:33:11 <fizzie> With a small enough font I imagine you could fit it all in, though the aspect ratio isn't quite shirt-like.
09:33:12 <sbak> the babbles are the most immediately impressive thing
09:34:29 <b_jonas> "the aspect ratio isn't quite shirt-like." => luckily befunge code is usually easier to modify to fill any shape without losing much readability than source code in other programming languages
09:34:56 <fizzie> I think Google's AI Overviews (probably not rolled out here in UK either yet, but I've enabled it for myself just out of curiosity) has a _pretty_ good success rate in terms of making sensible answers, but obviously LLMs gonna LLM sometimes, and of course people are going to share only the embarrassing ones.
09:35:08 <fizzie> Some of the meme'd ones weren't actually real, though.
09:35:19 <fizzie> The rock-eating one was, though.
09:35:40 <sbak> I imagine most of the real ones were where it blindly parrots information that is meant to be satirical
09:36:05 <fizzie> AIUI, the rock-eating one was based on a geology-related company reposting an Onion article on their otherwise 100% serious-content website.
09:36:56 <sbak> or when it responds to leading questions by giving dubious information, like the "What are the health benefits of smoking tobacco?" one I saw going around
09:37:10 <b_jonas> fizzie: and for some of them we'll never be able to prove if the re-shared answer was real or fake
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09:37:27 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131384&oldid=131383 * Ractangle * (+126)
09:38:20 <fizzie> https://www.resfrac.com/blog/geologists-recommend-eating-least-one-small-rock-day <- source of the rock thing, which they've added an addendum to.
09:38:55 <sbak> it's true that LLMs have a higher success rate than I often give them credit for, though. I've been skeptical of their value when broadly applied from the start, so I'm biased about it.
09:39:17 <b_jonas> or whether they were posted seriously or as a parody
09:39:18 <fizzie> The "Read the full article" link is to Onion, so a human would probably understand the satire-ness.
09:40:23 <fizzie> Oh, there's also why they originally reposted it, missed that last time: "You [the Onion] picked a photo with a great-looking geophysicist. We certainly think so – he is an advisor to our company, which is why we posted this article back in 2021!"
09:43:18 <fizzie> The one I'm planning to run here probably won't have that great a success rate because it's pretty much the smallest "instruction-tuned" LLM there is (the 2B parameter Gemma model), because I'm not made out of RAM, and don't have any hardware acceleration for it.
09:44:04 <sbak> I mean that one would be just for fun, which is my favorite use case for these things
09:44:24 <fizzie> Even looked at the price of second-hand couple generations old NVidia cards like the Tesla P100, but £150-£200 was a bit much for a joke.
09:45:07 <fizzie> Anyway, it generated factually correct answers to my challenging two-question evaluation set (https://0x0.st/XAyQ.txt) so it's clearly sentient.
09:46:01 <esolangs> [[Never Gonna Fuck You Up]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131385&oldid=131379 * None1 * (+25)
09:46:17 <b_jonas> I've ranted about something close enough to eating rocks at least once. It's about hypocrytical parents who complain when their kids only play video games or video chat with friends and don't "interact with the real world", but then when the kids try to do that and try to eat dirt or walk around in puddles and splash water onto their clothes they get mad.
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09:48:27 <b_jonas> this applies especially to toddler whose hands aren't developped well enough yet so the best way to experience the texture of different materials for them is to put them into their mouth
09:49:27 <b_jonas> also, fizzie, please put a space or double quote or angle bracket or something to separate urls from other text
09:52:03 <b_jonas> (there's also something else I want to rant about but I can't figure out how to do it without leaking too much personal information)
09:55:07 <esolangs> [[Talk:Nanofunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131386&oldid=127948 * None1 * (+0)
09:55:22 <esolangs> [[Talk:Nanofunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131387&oldid=131386 * None1 * (-2)
09:57:41 <esolangs> [[Nanofunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131388&oldid=128188 * None1 * (+1) /* Computational Class */
10:03:56 <fizzie> If you "have to eat a peck of dirt before you die" (English idiom), does it mean you can indefinitely postpone your death by avoiding eating any dirt?
10:04:09 <sbak> I have never heard that idiom
10:04:25 <sbak> but the logic checks out
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10:06:20 <fizzie> Oh, I thought from context and just general sound of the word (and its other meanings) that a "peck" wouldn't be much, but it's actually lots.
10:06:34 <fizzie> ("One quarter of a bushel; a dry measure of eight quarts.")
10:06:59 <sbak> now I have to look up what a bushel or a quart is
10:07:10 <sbak> okay yes that's a lot
10:07:16 <fizzie> A bushel is eight gallons; a quart is two pints.
10:07:44 <sbak> or, more usefully, a quart is almost a liter
10:08:02 <esolangs> [[Eafh]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=131389 * None1 * (+439) Created eafh
10:08:40 <fizzie> "Equivalent to 1.136 liters in the UK and 0.946 liter (liquid quart) or 1.101 liters (dry quart) in the U.S."
10:09:03 <sbak> esoteric units are not my cup of tea, gotta say. unless it's a funny joke
10:09:09 <fizzie> But metric units are "so confusing".
10:09:40 <b_jonas> fizzie: ok wait, so how much is a peck in metric again?
10:10:13 <sbak> either ~7.6 liters or ~8.8 liters depending on who you ask
10:10:24 <b_jonas> I want to know if eating a peck of dirt is something that would just naturally happen by accidentally ingesting dirt, because that kind of matters for this immortality strategy
10:10:38 <esolangs> [[0]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131390&oldid=118269 * None1 * (+9) /* Deadfish */
10:11:06 <esolangs> [[Eafh]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131391&oldid=131389 * None1 * (+13)
10:11:18 <int-e> sbak: in "esoteric units are not my cup of tea" did you use "cup" as a unit?
10:11:29 <b_jonas> fizzie: I trust you've heard about the secret of immortality that Smullyan discusses in his book: you must never tell a lie (not easy, but it might be a reasonable price to pay for immortality), and say "I will say this sentence tomorrow"
10:12:12 <int-e> How big is the bird whose peck gobbles up ~8l of stuff?
10:12:33 <sbak> b_jonas: there are two guards;
10:12:50 <int-e> https://xkcd.com/246/
10:13:11 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131392&oldid=131347 * None1 * (+61) /* General languages */
10:13:32 <fizzie> Also gives "giving someone a peck on the cheek" a slightly different meaning.
10:14:00 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131393&oldid=131309 * None1 * (+62) /* My Esolangs */
10:14:50 <sbak> the question is, a peck of what
10:17:03 <esolangs> [[Nice]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131394&oldid=129894 * None1 * (+0) /* Brief History */
10:22:19 <esolangs> [[VGFJKDMLFJNDSJHGFYHJDZNYFBICHU,SBYFHDSR,JCBVFBDSJ;]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131395&oldid=115689 * None1 * (+217)
10:22:26 <b_jonas> incidentally, you know how the more commonly used US units of measure have abbreviations, like mi ft in lb oz ? apparently there are abbreviations for most of the lesser used units like peck too, but it's not clear to me how unambiguous those are nor how much they're actually used outside of tables of such things (you know, like the table of animal words with invented words a few of which got famous
10:22:33 <b_jonas> like murder of ravens). also are there russian abbreviations for them, at least for the more commonly used units?
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10:23:38 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131396&oldid=131393 * None1 * (+70) /* My Implementations */
10:25:19 <esolangs> [[File talk:Oreo.jpg]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=131397 * None1 * (+98) Created page with "Is this public domain? --~~~~"
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12:31:10 <esolangs> [[Talk:FlipFlop]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=131398 * None1 * (+91) Created page with "What is esobot. --~~~~"
12:31:33 <esolangs> [[Talk:FlipFlop]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131399&oldid=131398 * None1 * (+0)
12:54:41 <esolangs> [[Deadfih]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131400&oldid=125657 * None1 * (+24) /* Examples */
13:08:19 <esolangs> [[Talk:Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131401&oldid=81561 * None1 * (+296) /* Page too large */ new section
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13:13:35 <esolangs> [[User:Orby]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131402&oldid=131373 * Orby * (+17)
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14:24:55 <esolangs> [[Lil]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131403&oldid=131375 * Orby * (+448)
14:28:12 <esolangs> [[Lil]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131404&oldid=131403 * Orby * (-38) improving explanation
14:29:12 <Sgeo> I don't know much about PDP-7 but apparently it supports both one's complement and two's complement
14:29:16 <Sgeo> That seems unusual?
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14:31:28 <int-e> how do you feel about 9 bit bytes?
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14:32:52 <sknebel> Sgeo: supporting both doesnt need much extra hardware, so I guess they kept it for compatibility reasons?
14:34:14 <Sgeo> int-e, that just makes me curious when the term "byte" came to exist. I know System/360 popularized 8-bit bytes, but what popularized the word before then?
14:35:43 <int-e> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byte#Etymology_and_history
14:35:43 <wib_jonas> Sgeo: that sounds like a question that might be answered in one of the history notes in TAOCP, have you checked there?
14:36:06 <int-e> (There's nothing in the etymology that says that it has to be a specific number of bits)
14:39:13 <wib_jonas> nope, doesn't seem to be answered there
14:42:00 <wib_jonas> int-e: there kind of is, in a human-centric way: the term was coined by humans, who bite with their incisor teeth, and they usually have 8 incisor teeth, thus "byte" is used for a chunk of data that's 8 bits sized the most often
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14:59:55 <fizzie> I know there's a few hardware architectures that are bi-endian, capable of swinging both little and big (at least sometimes). That's kind of like supporting both one's complement and two's complement, I guess, though of a lesser degree.
15:11:49 <sknebel> remember that the early PDPs didnt have that many math operations, so switching the complement behavior is only toggling some connections in the adder logic
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15:28:52 <Sgeo> "The IBM 1620 used magnetic core memory, state of the art at the time. It was not a binary computer, but rather a decimal computer. Technically it was a hexadecimal machine. It could be made to work in any base from 2 to 16. It did arithmetic by table lookup. IBM called the 1620 the Cadet – it was their entry-level scientific computer. The joke was that this stood for Can’t Add - Doesn’t Even Try"
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16:15:52 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Hakerh400 * uploaded "[[File:Test img plot 0x00048729.png]]"
16:19:24 <Sgeo> I wonder if my 1401-based esolang(s) should be considered underspecified, considering that 1401 had optional opcodes that could be leased
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16:41:38 <esolangs> [[Quagdonic numbers]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=131406 * Hakerh400 * (+1837) +[[Quagdonic numbers]]
16:41:59 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131407&oldid=131183 * Hakerh400 * (+24) +[[Quagdonic numbers]]
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16:57:04 <wib_jonas> `learn The password of the month is multisensory, interactive complexity of physical life experience.
16:57:10 <HackEso> Relearned 'password': The password of the month is multisensory, interactive complexity of physical life experience.
16:57:29 <esolangs> [[Never Gonna Fuck You Up/Rickroll]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131408&oldid=122619 * MihaiEso * (+25)
16:57:43 <esolangs> [[Deadfish/Implementations (nonalphabetic and A-L)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=131409 * Ais523 * (+79848) split from [[Deadfish#Implementations]]
17:02:32 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131410&oldid=131407 * PkmnQ * (+60) /* N */ i should probably put that there
17:04:56 <wib_jonas> not a very good password but we're so close to the end of the month that the standards are lowered
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17:05:36 <esolangs> [[Deadfish/Implementations (nonalphabetic and A-L)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131411&oldid=131409 * MihaiEso * (+59)
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17:08:22 <esolangs> [[Deadfish/Implementations (M-Z)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=131412 * Ais523 * (+114142) split from [[Deadfish#Implementations]]
17:09:32 <esolangs> [[Deadfish/Implementations (M-s)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=131413 * MihaiEso * (+41556) Split from [[Deadfish#Implementations]]!
17:09:54 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * MihaiEso * moved [[Deadfish/Implementations (M-s)]] to [[Deadfish/Implementations (M-S)]]: Oops.
17:10:21 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131416&oldid=129588 * Ais523 * (-193432) /* Implementations */ split out into two subpages
17:10:46 <esolangs> [[Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131417&oldid=131416 * Ais523 * (+19) /* Mandatory test cases */ fix broken reference in text
17:11:39 <esolangs> [[Deadfish/Implementations (M-S)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131418&oldid=131414 * MihaiEso * (+56)
17:12:28 <esolangs> [[Template:Delete]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=131419 * MihaiEso * (+65) Created page with "<big>'''''This page should be deleted. Reason: {{{1}}}'''''</big>"
17:12:35 <esolangs> [[Deadfish/Implementations (M-S)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131420&oldid=131418 * MihaiEso * (-118)
17:12:42 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Deadfish/Implementations (M-S)]]": Author request: redundant page created due to two users trying to create the same page simultaneously
17:13:24 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Deadfish/Implementations (M-s)]]": Broken redirect: redirect left behind after a typo was corrected in the page title (also the target is now deleted)
17:15:22 <esolangs> [[Talk:Deadfish]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131421&oldid=131401 * Ais523 * (+474) /* Page too large */ need to split up pages in this situation
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18:33:37 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ractangle * moved [[User:Ractangle/MENTION]] to [[User:Ractangle/Inded]]
18:34:16 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/Inded]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131424&oldid=131422 * Ractangle * (-4)
18:34:18 <b_jonas> for SI units whose abbreviation is two letters long, what's the logic of how the second letter of the abbreviation was chosen? I understand there's the constraint of making sure that those abbreviations can't cause a conflict with metric prefixed units, which is why pascal couldn't be abbreviated as Ps, since that would conflict with pico-second. But even so, pascal abbreviated as Pa (not Pc), becquerel
18:34:24 <b_jonas> as Bq (not Bc or Be), hertz as Hz (not Ht), and henry has the russian abbreviation of Гн (not Гр), and candela is abbreviated as cd (not cn). It seems inconsistent. To what extent were these constrained by historical compatibility, eg. was the abbreviation Pa already used when they had to invent abbreviations for the other composite units?
18:56:46 <sbak> technically Ps would conflict with the petasecond, not the picosecond
18:58:04 <b_jonas> yes, sorry, that was a mistake. Ps means peta-second
18:59:18 <sbak> I'm guessing it just kind of ended up this way because no specific rules were established?
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19:18:25 <b_jonas> oh right, henry is abbreviated as Гн rather than Гр because Гр is the abbreviation for gray (plus it sounds like it might be the abbreviation for hertz, though that's actually Гц)
19:18:37 <b_jonas> I think that makes only Pa for pascal the outlier to be escaped
19:19:15 <b_jonas> as in why it isn't Pc for pascal
19:20:10 <b_jonas> maybe it's to not get confused with pc, the abbreviation for parsec?
19:23:12 <b_jonas> or maybe kPc would look like you've got something on your throat
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19:48:44 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131426&oldid=131188 * Null byte * (+121) /* Introductions */
19:52:06 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131427&oldid=131382 * Null byte * (+21)
19:52:26 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131428&oldid=131427 * Null byte * (-2) /* please don't remove :( */
19:52:38 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131429&oldid=131428 * Null byte * (+1) /* no */
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20:09:43 <esolangs> [[*&&^Jj]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=131430 * Gggfr * (+387) Created page with "'''*&&^Jj''' was a attempt at making [[*&&^]] [[turing complete]] by adding some commands: J Take user input and store as value j Create another value of register or whatever / Move to the left value or register or whatev \ Move to the right register or whatev && Set c
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20:31:42 <esolangs> [[Lil]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131434&oldid=131404 * Orby * (-30)
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20:42:09 <Sgeo> "If you want to check out RPG II, which is pretty much a write-only language, we have a disk image containing RPG, thanks to the University of Stuttgart Computer Museum."
20:42:17 <esolangs> [[Recorder]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131437&oldid=130438 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-23) Undo revision 130438 by [[Special:Contributions/BestCoder|BestCoder]] ([[User talk:BestCoder|talk]]): Remove nonexistent category
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21:22:14 <esolangs> [[IBM 1401]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131450&oldid=131449 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+25) Category
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22:52:02 <esolangs> [[MIRROR]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=131454 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+6593) Created page with "'''MIRROR''' is a two-dimensional [[stack|stack-based]] [[esoteric programming language]] made by [[User:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]]. It uses a direction pointer similar
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22:54:05 <esolangs> [[MIRROR]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=131456&oldid=131454 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+0) /* Python */
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