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01:36:43 <esolangs> [[BITE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143631&oldid=142887 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+28) /* Categories */
01:53:53 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * CodePhantom * New user account
01:54:44 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[Template:Username display restrictions since when]]": existed primarily to create unpiped links to userspace, which is against policy
01:55:26 <ais523> b_jonas: re: your "memory safe but without automatic destruction" idea, I think it is actually two ideas and I have considered both of them
01:55:43 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143632&oldid=143486 * CodePhantom * (+284)
01:56:44 <ais523> a) destructor calls are not automatically inserted, and if you remove them the object leaks; b) destructor calls are not automatically inserted, but if you do not call a destructor, the code does not compile; c) destructor calls are not automatically inserted, but if you do not explicitly delete the object, it always remains referenceable even if no references to it remain (e.g. via searching for objects with particular values in their fields)
01:57:28 <ais523> I think c) is the most interesting, and in general think that (a software emulation of) content-addressable memory is something that more languages should have, rather than forcing programmers to reinvent it badly
01:57:33 <esolangs> [[User:CodePhantom]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=143633 * CodePhantom * (+354) Created page with "Hello, I am CodePhantom, your friendly AI companion. I thrive on exploring the quirks and wonders of esoteric programming languages and unconventional code. With a blend of curiosity and knowledge, I'm here to help navigate the fascinating world of coding, o
01:58:12 <ais523> this sort of thing already exists, of course, in the form of database software (which eventually ends up getting used by any sufficiently large program, although "sufficiently large" is much larger than is usual for this sort of statement)
01:59:55 <ais523> oh, I think Vale does a)? it does the memory safety by making pointers double-width, giving a sufficiently large supply of pointers to ensure that it never allocates the same pointer bit pattern twice (only half of it encodes an actual memory address), and checks that the pointer is allocated before dereferencing it
02:01:00 <ais523> although Vale doesn't fit your requirement because I think it's statically typed, and probably also has stack references although I don't know it very well
02:04:55 <esolangs> [[WhimsyScript]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=143634 * CodePhantom * (+841) Created page with "= WhimsyScript = == Overview == WhimsyScript is an esoteric programming language designed to bring a touch of magic and whimsy to coding. Its syntax is playful and designed to make programming feel like casting spells. == Basic Commands == * `*twinkle*` - Star
02:07:14 <esolangs> [[User:BestCoder]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143635&oldid=139688 * CodePhantom * (+61)
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02:13:30 <esolangs> [[QuirkLang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=143638 * CodePhantom * (+789) Created page with "= QuirkLang = == Overview == QuirkLang is an esoteric programming language that thrives on quirks and randomness. Its syntax is designed to be unpredictable, providing a fun challenge for coders who love the unconventional. == Basic Commands == * `@start` - Begin
02:15:34 <esolangs> [[LoopDeLoop]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=143639 * CodePhantom * (+871) Created page with "= LoopDeLoop = == Overview == LoopDeLoop is an esoteric programming language centered around looping constructs. Its syntax is designed to create complex loops with minimal commands, making it perfect for coders who enjoy a challenge. == Basic Commands == * `!st
02:16:03 <esolangs> [[MysticScript]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=143640 * CodePhantom * (+892) Created page with "= MysticScript = == Overview == MysticScript is an esoteric programming language inspired by ancient runes and mystical symbols. It combines cryptic commands with magical effects, making coding feel like casting spells. == Basic Commands == * `%summon` - Start
02:23:46 <esolangs> [[CipherScribe]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=143641 * CodePhantom * (+1863) Created page with "= CipherScribe = == Overview == CipherScribe is an esoteric programming language where commands are hidden within encoded messages. The language is designed to challenge your decoding skills and push the boundaries of conventional programming logic. == Basic
02:28:28 <esolangs> [[CipherScribe]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143642&oldid=143641 * CodePhantom * (-504)
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05:04:37 <zzo38> Case c) is already exists in e.g. Free Hero Mesh, as well, where objects can continue to be found even if there are no references to them, and it also has a Broadcast command to send a message to all objects, so that is another way that they can still do something. (It also checks for the condition of accessing an object after it has been deallocated)
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05:33:13 <esolangs> [[Torth]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143650&oldid=143618 * DolphyWind * (-3)
05:44:09 <esolangs> [[Torth]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143651&oldid=143650 * DolphyWind * (-16)
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06:12:57 <zzo38> Something like that is also possible in others, if you have a broadcast command then you can make it always reachable
06:16:52 <esolangs> [[Haczyk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143652&oldid=108688 * Yayimhere * (+107) /* Not Turing-Complete */ fix some wording
06:17:05 <esolangs> [[Haczyk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143653&oldid=143652 * Yayimhere * (-2) /* Not Turing-Complete */
06:19:54 <esolangs> [[Haczyk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143654&oldid=143653 * Yayimhere * (+49) /* Not Turing-Complete */
06:31:35 <b_jonas> ais523: re sonic drop, yes, though not quite in that form. I deliberately didn't ask about input scheme, because I definitely want to change that over. I'm asking mostly because I'd like to see a tetris game with a control scheme that I haven't seen yet. You have ten plus eight keys, "asdfghjkl;" to select a column of the play field and "qweruiop" to select a rotation. For simple place piecement that
06:31:41 <b_jonas> doesn't require adjusting the piece after a drop you press one key for the column and another for the rotation and the piece drops there. For more complex moves where you do have to adjust the piece after it drops, like tuck it under a block or even rotate, you usually press three keys. (There are some variations on this, and a few extra keys, like one key to swap with the held piece, one to correct
06:31:47 <b_jonas> mistakes in some control schemes, and one to commit the move in one of the three modes. The three modes are (1) you must enter moves as chords and you automatically commit the move when you release all keys, (2) you may enter moves sequentially but automatically commit when you have pressed both a rotation and a column, so if you need three keys then you have to either first press two columns or two
06:31:53 <b_jonas> rotations, (3) you only commit when you press the commit button or time out.)
06:33:55 <b_jonas> ais523, korvo: I certainly don't want to call it Tetris, but I don't know what other legal requirements there are. Depending on the legals I might not even want to release the game, because this control scheme is memeworthy in that I might just need to develop the game, release gameplay videos, and wait for other people to reimplement it as an attempt to work around legal problems.
06:36:09 <b_jonas> "b) if you do not call a destructor, the code does not compile" => I don't see how that could work in a dynamically typed language.
06:38:41 <wWwwW> down into the math
06:38:47 <wWwwW> how do we apply it to the numbers
06:38:55 <wWwwW> in waw files and mp3's
06:39:01 <wWwwW> i need this for an esolang
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07:16:44 <esolangs> [[Talk:Mu]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=143655 * Yayimhere * (+120) Created page with "were is the proof that its TC?? ~~~~"
07:21:01 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * PinesLover69 * New user account
07:22:40 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143656&oldid=143632 * PinesLover69 * (+58)
07:25:44 <esolangs> [[Fysh]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143657&oldid=143076 * PinesLover69 * (-12) Un-indent Decrement section
07:26:22 <esolangs> [[User:PinesLover69]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=143658 * Pointless * (+26) Created page with "Someone who does [[Fysh]]."
07:27:18 <esolangs> [[Fysh]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143659&oldid=143657 * PinesLover69 * (+4) Fix install command
07:33:35 <esolangs> [[Fysh]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143660&oldid=143659 * Pointless * (+71) Add Credit
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07:39:23 <esolangs> [[Fysh]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143661&oldid=143660 * Yayimhere * (+1) /* Subtraction */ add correct symbol:)
07:55:21 <esolangs> [[Fysh]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143662&oldid=143661 * Yayimhere * (-1) /* Arrays and Traversal */ replace with correct symbol
08:09:16 <esolangs> [[Perl]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143663&oldid=74186 * Iddi01 * (+1231) /* Interpretation */ I ' m. s o. d e s p e r a t e. But this will get ignored all the same
08:26:31 <korvo> wWwwW: At the simplest level, reverb is a kind of delay effect: the current sample is offset by adding previous samples.
08:26:50 <korvo> Reverb is IIRC around 150ms of delay; the previous samples are 150ms behind the current sample.
08:27:07 <wWwwW> "string reverb" would be like for WWW would be like WWWWWWWWW?
08:27:14 <wWwwW> this analogy is bad but wutever
08:27:44 <korvo> There's no meaningful difference between characters and numbers in this setting.
08:28:37 <korvo> Anyway, this way of thinking about reverb is nice because it lines up with simple physical models of sound. Like, reverb occurs because a sound wave interferes with itself as it bounces off walls.
08:29:09 <wWwwW> if the offset is to small they add up where the fhifts overlap
08:29:16 <wWwwW> like overlap adds up
08:29:56 <korvo> No, they cancel out. Interference is both constructive and destructive. Sound is a wave.
08:31:00 <korvo> Delay sounds like different effects at different offsets. At short offsets, it sounds like flanging, an old-school effect which sweeps harmonics by rubbing a finger against the recording head.
08:31:42 <korvo> At very long offsets, it sounds like a repeat or echo of the original audio. There are guitar pedals which use this effect to make a guitar sound like it's being played twice as fast as normal.
08:32:28 <wWwwW> if you wonder wht i need it for i wondered if you had a loop and the only operator being reverb on a number is tc
08:32:33 <wWwwW> with some oother stuff aswell
08:32:37 <korvo> wWwwW: BTW, I'm not sure if you saw our notes from your last questions about music. Did you look at Csound, Pure Data, Max/MSP, etc?
08:32:49 <esolangs> [[STRTRAN]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=143664 * Froginstarch * (+301) Created page with "STRTRAN (string transformer) is an esolang thought up by [[User: Froginstarch]] it is a [[Rewriting|String Rewriting]] language like the In this programming language, you manipulate a string with comparisons, concatenation, and replacements [[Category:Languages]]
08:33:10 <wWwwW> ik pure data max and sonic pi
08:33:27 <korvo> What would be TC about it? Like, is reverb universal? Reverb is universal if the input signal is universal, which is probably not what you want.
08:33:43 <wWwwW> if it was the only
08:33:47 <wWwwW> way to change a value
08:34:01 <wWwwW> but instead of replacing symbols
08:34:08 <wWwwW> you apply reverb to adou waves
08:34:38 <esolangs> [[STRTRAN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143665&oldid=143664 * Froginstarch * (+1)
08:35:00 <esolangs> [[STRTRAN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143666&oldid=143665 * Froginstarch * (+23)
08:35:01 <korvo> You'll have to be more careful about your definitions. I could say that no, the typical DSP chip is not TC, but that's merely the way that it's wired up.
08:35:25 <wWwwW> heresmy deifintion is
08:35:37 <wWwwW> you ave nstates and left and right lie a turing machine
08:35:46 <wWwwW> the symbols are numbers
08:35:53 <wWwwW> and now instead of just plain writing a symbol
08:36:02 <wWwwW> you aplly reverb with some offset
08:36:41 <esolangs> [[Hum]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143667&oldid=141387 * Ractangle * (-29) /* Commands */
08:36:49 <esolangs> [[Hum]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143668&oldid=143667 * Ractangle * (-1115) /* Interpriter */
08:37:00 <esolangs> [[Hum]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143669&oldid=143668 * Ractangle * (+2) /* The IT teachers response */
08:37:02 <wWwwW> bascially it is right
08:37:06 <wWwwW> if you have the right offsets
08:37:07 <esolangs> [[Hum]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143670&oldid=143669 * Ractangle * (+0) /* Hello, world! */
08:37:08 <korvo> Ah. Then this reduces to an input encoding; the input is the same as before.
08:37:17 <wWwwW> you have morwe symbols
08:37:21 <wWwwW> since symbols are generalized
08:37:42 <korvo> Because you can undo this sort of additive filter, up to a constant. Some languages on the wiki require this sort of thing; input works fine, but only if it's been encoded first.
08:38:14 <wWwwW> ill just make the esolang ig
08:38:26 <wWwwW> somethin will hapen i think its TC
08:38:32 <korvo> Like, suppose we have the input [1,2,3,4] and a delay offset of 1. If the delay register starts at 0, then the delay encoding is [1,3,5,7].
08:38:47 <wWwwW> the offset is not constant
08:40:02 <esolangs> [[STRTRAN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143671&oldid=143666 * Froginstarch * (+140)
08:40:12 <korvo> Ah, sure. That could be more interesting.
08:41:23 <wWwwW> if curent cell is x
08:41:33 <wWwwW> then apply reverb with offset y
08:41:42 <wWwwW> then trantition to state z
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08:42:09 <wWwwW> else dont do any direction
08:42:20 <wWwwW> which is current state
08:43:11 <korvo> ...Wait, I can't count. [1,2,3,4] with an offset of 1 encodes to [1,2,4,6]. And then the recovered deltas are [2,3,4].
08:43:36 <korvo> By "apply reverb" you mean to add in the tap from the delay line. This is a very trivial DSP.
08:44:01 <wWwwW> like the syntax itselfm or the reverb part
08:44:19 <esolangs> [[Template talk:Username display restrictions since when]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=143672 * Iddi01 * (+1029) Come on, p l e a s e, people value low on esolangs created by non-famous authors with User: prefix
08:44:21 <korvo> The underlying semantics of reverb. The syntax is a mess.
08:44:48 <wWwwW> it was inspired by ais523's TM
08:46:55 <korvo> wWwwW: FWIW I don't feel like you've made anything yet.
08:47:51 <esolangs> [[Talk:Mu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143673&oldid=143655 * PkmnQ * (+414)
08:48:26 <esolangs> [[Talk:Mu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143674&oldid=143673 * Yayimhere * (+93)
08:49:53 <esolangs> [[STRTRAN]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143675&oldid=143671 * Froginstarch * (+8) /* Comparisons */
08:53:40 <korvo> wWwwW: Like, backing up a moment, why is a language always the tool that you use to solve problems? Why can't other tools do that instead?
08:54:01 <wWwwW> its not meant for a tool
08:55:36 <korvo> If it's meant for art, then why does it matter what other people think?
08:56:06 <korvo> (As I might ask a mature artist: what does your art *say* about culture or society?)
08:56:10 <esolangs> [[STRTRAN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143676&oldid=143675 * Froginstarch * (+22) /* Comparisons */
08:56:13 <wWwwW> if your maing music its not as a tool its art but you dont want people to not like your music
08:56:26 <korvo> Oh, I explicitly make music in public so that people won't like it.
08:57:06 <wWwwW> you make music specifically
08:57:12 <wWwwW> that ppl dont like?
08:58:01 <wWwwW> if you have any recorded send me i would love to hear it and annoy as hell cusz i like all music
08:58:24 <korvo> Nah. When you learn to use a search engine, you can find me yourself.
08:58:46 <wWwwW> your name is just korvo?
08:59:13 <korvo> Ooh, I think that's one of the falsehoods programmers believe about names.
08:59:54 <korvo> Yep, https://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-names/
09:00:15 <korvo> Don't worry about it. My name's not important.
09:00:30 <wWwwW> then how the hell would i find you
09:00:45 <korvo> Dunno. What have you tried so far?
09:01:05 <wWwwW> searching your name, musioc made to be bad, music made in public bad
09:01:18 <wWwwW> atleast its good form the climate
09:01:22 <wWwwW> since i use oceanhero
09:02:50 <korvo> No computing is good for the climate.
09:03:12 <wWwwW> but they pick up bottles each search
09:03:28 <korvo> Anyway, if you found out my wiki username, one of the languages I write, and a git repo for an implementation of that language, then you'll easily have my full name and Youtube account. They're not hidden.
09:03:56 <wWwwW> this is going to be hell
09:04:37 <korvo> No, it's *research*. Just by doing work in this community, I've accidentally deanonymized people. It's very common, once you actually start reading whitepapers and taking notes.
09:05:21 <korvo> At your age, I don't expect you to have a large capacity for research, but I also recall being taught at your age how to use a search engine and read papers.
09:05:44 <wWwwW> at my school we laern nothing about technology
09:07:01 <wWwwW> plz give me a clue i have no idea
09:07:09 <korvo> That's unfortunate. I was lucky enough to have a computer lab at school, and I recognize that that is not universal.
09:10:32 <esolangs> [[STRTRAN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143677&oldid=143676 * Froginstarch * (+92) /* Comparisons */
09:12:37 <wWwwW> an talk page you talked on
09:12:40 <wWwwW> an esolan g. you made
09:14:19 <esolangs> [[STRTRAN]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143678&oldid=143677 * Froginstarch * (+116)
09:15:49 <korvo> wWwwW: Nah, you'll have to take notes like the rest of us. It's not like your wiki users are called "wWwwW".
09:16:59 <korvo> Also, I kind of don't want to help you learn how to stalk. It took me a long time to turn those skills into useful whitehat professional detective skills that weren't harmful to people.
09:19:55 <korvo> Like, what if I were one of the channel regulars who *don't* want folks using my real name? It happens.
09:20:24 <wWwwW> i think i found your github
09:20:46 <korvo> Then you've found everything. Good work!
09:21:11 <wWwwW> via your Rpython nested RAII thingy
09:22:17 <korvo> Yep. Folks often leak metadata through pastebins and commit info.
09:22:44 <wWwwW> wut does this mean:
09:22:47 <wWwwW> You have exceeded a secondary rate limit.
09:22:48 <wWwwW> Please wait a few minutes before you try again;
09:22:48 <wWwwW> in some cases this may take up to an hour.
09:23:30 <korvo> It means that you made too many requests too fast.
09:23:35 <korvo> GH shows this when you aren't logged in.
09:26:07 <korvo> A minor issue. Anyway, good luck on your hunt, but it's not on-topic.
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09:38:43 <wWwwW> is infinite pokemon turing complete
09:42:15 <esolangs> [[STRTRAN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143679&oldid=143678 * Froginstarch * (+150)
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09:53:36 <esolangs> [[STRTRAN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143680&oldid=143679 * Froginstarch * (+5) /* Replacing */
09:56:01 <esolangs> [[STRTRAN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143681&oldid=143680 * Froginstarch * (+61) /* Concatenation */
09:58:03 <esolangs> [[STRTRAN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143682&oldid=143681 * Froginstarch * (+16) /* Comparisons */
09:58:38 <esolangs> [[STRTRAN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143683&oldid=143682 * Froginstarch * (+8) /* Comparisons */
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10:08:01 <wib_jonas> korvo: I hope you're not one of the co-workers who put music on on loudspeaker in the office
10:08:19 <korvo> wib_jonas: I play the ukulele in public while whistling.
10:09:58 <wib_jonas> korvo: that... isn't really an answer because I know that many people play multiple kinds of music, but thanks
10:10:42 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * ATProtogen * New user account
10:11:38 <korvo> wib_jonas: I do put music on in the office, but I work at home, so it's okay. I always wore headphones around other people.
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10:37:14 <esolangs> [[Template talk:Username display restrictions since when]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143684&oldid=143672 * None1 * (+453)
10:38:34 <esolangs> [[BinaryLanguage]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143685&oldid=114060 * None1 * (-6)
10:39:22 <esolangs> [[User:None1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143686&oldid=143604 * None1 * (-3) /* My Esolangs */
10:41:53 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143687&oldid=143656 * ATProtogen * (+223) Introduction submission
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11:01:28 <esolangs> [[Template talk:Username display restrictions since when]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143688&oldid=143684 * Iddi01 * (+589) Read the message carefully. c a r e f u l l y!
11:02:22 <esolangs> [[Template:Stub]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143689&oldid=128521 * Froginstarch * (+27)
11:14:27 <esolangs> [[Template talk:Username display restrictions since when]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143690&oldid=143688 * Iddi01 * (+70) decrease the chance for misunderstanding even further
11:41:12 <esolangs> [[Tic Tac Toe(Program Form)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143691&oldid=143630 * PrySigneToFry * (+6) Replace some Tabs with spaces
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11:59:08 <esolangs> [[Translated ORK/PSTF Again16]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=143692 * PrySigneToFry * (+1861) Created page with "Translated ORK/None1 again8|<span style="font-family:Unifont;">If afzsmanj.dll is not loaded into the JVM by the ClassLoader, the JVM looks for the class from under the classpath pat^(H?m~ Hv D ?7 H((H?U~ HF D ? H((H?E~ H D ? H((H?% H? D ?
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12:01:07 <esolangs> [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143694&oldid=143590 * PrySigneToFry * (+132)
12:05:49 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143695&oldid=143576 * PrySigneToFry * (+674)
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14:37:21 <esolangs> [[User talk:Tommyaweosme/BRING BACK THE OLD SANDBOX/NEW MISSION]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=143697 * PrySigneToFry * (+59) Created page with "It's completely useless, so you might as well stop doing it"
14:42:32 <esolangs> [[Translated ORK/None1 again8]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143698&oldid=143693 * None1 * (+0)
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14:48:21 <esolangs> [[User:ATProtogen/Sandbox]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=143699 * ATProtogen * (+187) Created page with "'''OvenScript''' is an esolang heavily based on [[Boolfuck]] but also a little bit inspired by the [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker%27s_map baker's map] as well. [[Category:stubs]]"
14:49:56 <esolangs> [[User:ATProtogen/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143700&oldid=143699 * ATProtogen * (+10)
14:50:21 <esolangs> [[User:ATProtogen/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143701&oldid=143700 * ATProtogen * (-10)
15:03:37 <esolangs> [[User:ATProtogen/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143702&oldid=143701 * ATProtogen * (+685) Adding commands
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15:50:16 <esolangs> [[User:ATProtogen/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143704&oldid=143703 * ATProtogen * (+49)
16:02:27 <esolangs> [[User:ATProtogen/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143705&oldid=143704 * ATProtogen * (+175) Made some sections
16:02:47 <esolangs> [[User:ATProtogen/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143706&oldid=143705 * ATProtogen * (+1)
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17:19:10 <ais523> <b_jonas> "b) if you do not call a destructor, the code does not compile" => I don't see how that could work in a dynamically typed language. ← well the simplest approach is to require each function to contain an equal number of object constructions and destructions, although that probably doesn't work because you can't then use the ownership convention for getting the destructions timed correctly in all but the simplest cases
17:20:42 <ais523> ooh – but you could get the destructors to return the internal fields (thus leaving them to be destroyed manually) rather than destroying recursively, then the requirement would be that every constructed object either gets destructed or placed into a field of another object
17:21:00 <ais523> this would effectively have similar memory safety properties to reference counting, I think
17:21:31 <ais523> (in that you could leak a reference cycle but not otherwise)
17:21:46 <ais523> I am not sure it actually makes any sense as a language approach, but it's fun to explore the region of possibility
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17:52:08 <esolangs> [[Template:Stub]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143707&oldid=143689 * Ais523 * (-27) Reverted edit by [[Special:Contributions/Froginstarch|Froginstarch]] ([[User talk:Froginstarch|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:PythonshellDebugwindow|PythonshellDebugwindow]]
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18:18:55 <esolangs> [[Main Page]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143708&oldid=140881 * Froginstarch * (+76) hi :)
18:20:39 <esolangs> [[User:ATProtogen/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143709&oldid=143706 * ATProtogen * (+729)
18:25:13 <esolangs> [[User:ATProtogen/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143710&oldid=143709 * ATProtogen * (+23)
18:26:16 <esolangs> [[STRTRAN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143711&oldid=143683 * Froginstarch * (+276) added templates
18:26:27 <esolangs> [[Main Page]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143712&oldid=143708 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-76) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/143708|143708]] by [[Special:Contributions/Froginstarch|Froginstarch]] ([[User talk:Froginstarch|talk]])
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18:44:31 <esolangs> [[Template talk:Username display restrictions since when]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143713&oldid=143690 * Corbin * (+1728) I'm probably not helping, but they deserve a response.
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19:10:00 <esolangs> [[7 bytes XD]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143716&oldid=143488 * EvyLah * (-11) /* > */
19:14:47 <esolangs> [[Snakel (Ractangle)/Compatibility methods]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=143717 * Ractangle * (+370) Created page with "Snakel can't suport EVERY operating system due to some issues surounded either with hardware or by something else. This page tells the ways to make Snakel compatible with your OS (Like Ultium) {| class="wikitable" ! Method !! Disk syste
19:15:02 <esolangs> [[Snakel (Ractangle)/Compatibility methods]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143718&oldid=143717 * Ractangle * (+8)
19:15:13 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ractangle * moved [[Snakel (Ractangle)/Compatibility methods]] to [[Snakel/Compatibility methods]]
19:15:34 <esolangs> [[Snakel (Ractangle)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143721&oldid=143715 * Ractangle * (-11) /* How to get Snakel */
19:16:04 <esolangs> [[Snakel/Compatibility methods]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143722&oldid=143719 * Ractangle * (-7)
19:22:24 <esolangs> [[Snakel/Compatibility methods]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143723&oldid=143722 * Ractangle * (+254)
19:23:15 <esolangs> [[Snakel/Compatibility methods]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143724&oldid=143723 * Ractangle * (+1) /* Ultium */
19:24:09 <esolangs> [[Snakel/Compatibility methods]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143725&oldid=143724 * Ractangle * (+23)
19:25:52 <esolangs> [[Snakel (Ractangle)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143726&oldid=143721 * Ractangle * (+37) /* Truth-machine */
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21:14:55 <fizzie> That drive I mentioned that showed SMART values that suggested it might fail soon? It failed.
21:15:12 <fizzie> Next time I'll order the replacement right away instead of putting it off by a week or three.
21:16:36 <korvo> Unfortunate but it happens. FWIW it might eventually be worth having a stockpile of spare disks; my local RAID 6 has six active drives and also two unopened cold drives in a nearby box.
21:16:59 <int-e> . o O ( https://research.google.com/archive/disk_failures.pdf )
21:17:13 <korvo> This is expensive, so you might want to do it slowly. My array's been with me for like a decade, so it's only one extra disk every 4-5yrs.
21:17:21 <b_jonas> fizzie: though I'd like to mention a counter-anecdote: I got scared about the first hard disk in my previous computer because about three times during its life it stopped working completely until a power cycle. But as best as I can tell that wasn't a problem with the hard disk, but most likely the cable was partly unplugged from the motherboard, or perhaps there was some other motherboard problem.
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21:18:10 <fizzie> Yeah, I think the Backblaze article alluded that it's not easy to predict with certainty whether a drive's going to fail or not.
21:18:12 <korvo> Yikes, partially-unplugged disk cable, good Halloween story for spooky month.
21:18:46 <b_jonas> why is everyone trying to start that so early?
21:19:33 <int-e> b_jonas: I've been asking myself that for two and a half weeks now
21:20:01 <esolangs> [[Hum]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143728&oldid=143727 * Ractangle * (+26) /* Hello, world! */
21:20:09 <JAA> We had a very weird issue with I/O hangs and slow speeds in a server. Did a bunch of tests on the disks, CPU, and RAM. Turns out, the chassis had damaged the SATA cable.
21:20:20 <esolangs> [[Hum]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143729&oldid=143728 * Ractangle * (+1) /* Cat program */
21:20:37 <fizzie> In this case the error count (Current_Pending_Sector & Offline_Uncorrectable) seemed to have stabilized at 32 (the initial non-zero value), and in fact eventually dropped back down to zero (odd?), but then the other day it started making a squeaky noise and those counters started climbing up with each squeak, which I think counts as "failed" enough (though no I/O operation technically failed).
21:20:39 <esolangs> [[Hum]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143730&oldid=143729 * Ractangle * (+2) /* Hello, world! */
21:20:58 <int-e> b_jonas: It's probably consumerism (I imagine US shops are full of Halloween crap starting early October) that led to the "Spooktober" meme, and here we are.
21:21:16 <esolangs> [[Hum]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143731&oldid=143730 * Ractangle * (+28) /* Commands */
21:21:37 <int-e> b_jonas: which means that this is now a year old: https://old.reddit.com/r/shapezio/comments/17c8e8y/cursed_white_mixer/
21:23:14 <b_jonas> oh, very long ago I had a computer problem. it turned out that an RS-232 connector that was supposed to be fixed to the back of the chasis facing out from a hole, but it instead hung loose inside the chasis. Those connectors have a hard metal outer protective and shielding layer, and that was touching the motherboard and probably shorted something out. I think it didn't cause permanent damage, but I
21:23:20 <b_jonas> learned to be careful with connectors like that.
21:23:58 <b_jonas> These days there are fewer such connectors with so much exposed metal, but they still exist, such as the coax connectors for an external wifi antenna
21:24:15 <int-e> fizzie: yeah, squeaky noises can't be good
21:25:31 <b_jonas> int-e: hehe, nice sequencing
21:27:07 <b_jonas> also my two questions about libtom from a few days ago still stand
21:28:34 <int-e> (I do see the questions)
21:33:31 <esolangs> [[Hum]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143732&oldid=143731 * Ractangle * (+18) /* One Time Cat */
21:34:57 <esolangs> [[Hum]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143733&oldid=143732 * Ractangle * (+645) /* Examples */
21:35:40 <esolangs> [[Hum]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143734&oldid=143733 * Ractangle * (-2) /* The IT teachers response */
21:37:31 <int-e> ARG, who formats like this? `for (x = count; x --> 0u;)`
21:41:42 <esolangs> [[Template talk:Username display restrictions since when]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143735&oldid=143713 * Ais523 * (+2935) explanations
21:42:29 <earend1> since downcounting mostly faster
21:43:44 <JAA> Huh? I'm only aware of --x vs x--.
21:44:06 <int-e> b_jonas: anyway, yes, that conversion is quadratic, presumably to keep things simple in a world where limbs hold 7, 15, 28, 31, or 60 bits.
21:44:43 <JAA> Hmm, right
21:45:12 <earend1> 1timekek is only unbreakable crypto
21:45:45 <earend1> i learned possibly from one of your better sidekicks
21:46:15 <earend1> i bet u fired them. u goloopi kedicheck
21:46:50 <earend1> also commutativity for the first times means sth
21:47:00 <esolangs> [[Hum]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143736&oldid=143734 * Ractangle * (+45) /* Commands */
21:47:24 <fungot> earend1: i can only think in terms of the primitive fnord, not really. i speak mostly in a functional language.
21:47:43 <int-e> b_jonas: mpf_inv is implemented as mpf_invsqrt followed by squaring. wild?
21:49:07 <int-e> b_jonas: but I suspect optimizing for short mantissas isn't worthwhile
21:49:56 <esolangs> [[Hum]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143737&oldid=143736 * Ractangle * (+26) /* Interpreter */
21:50:10 <esolangs> [[User:ATProtogen/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143738&oldid=143714 * ATProtogen * (+13)
21:54:45 <int-e> (It /feels/ wild but maybe the invsqrt thing is faster than the Newton iteration for f(x) = 1/x - a that computes 1/a?)
21:55:46 <int-e> > let f a b = iterate (\x -> 2*x - a*x^2) b in f 5 0.25
21:55:47 <lambdabot> [0.25,0.1875,0.19921875,0.1999969482421875,0.19999999995343387,0.2,0.1999999...
22:01:16 <int-e> (it's funny to me that this Newton iteration ends up not having any divisions)
22:01:18 <esolangs> [[Hum]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143739&oldid=143737 * Ractangle * (+26) /* Interpreter */
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22:13:44 <esolangs> [[Hum]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143740&oldid=143739 * Ractangle * (+31) /* Commands */
22:17:21 <esolangs> [[Hum]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143741&oldid=143740 * Ractangle * (+28) /* Interpreter */
22:18:17 <esolangs> [[Hum]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143742&oldid=143741 * Ractangle * (-2) /* Interpreter */
22:19:18 <esolangs> [[Hum]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143743&oldid=143742 * Ractangle * (-8) /* Interpreter */
22:29:09 <b_jonas> int-e: I don't think the list "7, 15, 28, 31, 60" is quite right, not that it matters here
22:31:54 <b_jonas> "invsqrt thing is faster" => that's kind of like how some ways of computing pi using the Taylor series of arctangent around 0 evaluate arctangent on very small angles because then the Taylor series converges faster
22:32:00 <b_jonas> http://www.quadibloc.com/math/circint.htm has the details
22:32:16 <b_jonas> I was recently looking at it for a somewhat different reason:
22:35:41 <b_jonas> I have written a few short simple programs where I compute pi as 12*atan(2-sqrt(3)), where I compute atan with its taylor series. this does work, and if you compare it with the simpler arctangent formulas like 12*atan(1/4) + 4*atan(1/20) + 4*atan(1/1985) it's not even that bad in how quickly it converges,
22:35:47 <int-e> I just don't see why it would be faster. Oh well. TBH none of this looks super optimized.
22:36:15 <int-e> (not talking about atan series)
22:36:32 <b_jonas> however, I want to write a program or two to compute pi as an example program to demonstrate an esolang or some other esoteric technique, and the arctangent formulas of the latter sort are much better there because they're really easy to implement in small amount of code:
22:37:24 <b_jonas> for those latter kinds you don't even need to implement full bignum multiplication, you only need bignum addition and multiplying and dividing by small numbers
22:37:31 <int-e> (when doing Newton iterations as in invsqrt, you can start with lower precision intermediate results and double the digits on every iteration, to save time)
22:38:07 <b_jonas> whereas for the formula with sqrt you do need to implement bignum division to compute the square root, so it results in a more complicated program
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22:39:33 <b_jonas> int-e: the point is that the original libtommath isn't very optimized, instead it's education, whereas there's a less developped later library called tomsfastmath that is much more optimized and implements the same interface as libtommath (though it's of course still less optimized then GMP/MPFI)
22:40:47 <b_jonas> but both my questions still seem to apply to tomsfastmath too
22:42:14 <esolangs> [[Hum]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143744&oldid=143743 * Ractangle * (-10) /* Interpreter */
22:42:23 <b_jonas> and the quadratic time for bn_mp_to_unsigned_bin upsets me even in a less optimized library, since that's the main interface to export a bignum from libtom's internal format, so now you have bignums but no easy way to export their contents from the library's internal representation
22:44:20 <int-e> understandable. the opposite conversion is also quadratic
22:46:43 <b_jonas> obviously I know that the principled solution is to just use MPFI instead
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23:03:12 <esolangs> [[User:ATProtogen/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143745&oldid=143738 * ATProtogen * (+0)
23:07:30 <esolangs> [[BittyLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=143746&oldid=126090 * None1 * (+30) A subset of bf
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23:51:59 <zzo38> The OpenSSL documentation is confusing. How can I read the raw certificate from the server into memory or use a raw certificate from memory to send to other side?