> 1729815331 133104 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Empty14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144178&oldid=144107 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+9) 10/* Math */
> 1729815357 766627 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Empty14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144179&oldid=144178 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+35) 10/* Math */
> 1729815380 107334 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Empty14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144180&oldid=144179 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+1) 10/* Math */
> 1729815468 9092 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Empty14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144181&oldid=144180 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+0) 10/* Errors */
< 1729815704 55324 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds
< 1729815976 425566 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
< 1729816949 585324 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1729817585 326189 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@89.214.123.88 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
> 1729818052 488651 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:None114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144182&oldid=143446 5* 03None1 5* (+7) 10/* Timezone */  UTC+7 (CXT)
< 1729819330 319557 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wWwwW
< 1729819574 610664 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :salpynx
< 1729819582 537208 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wanna ask more questions?
< 1729820206 724827 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it didnt ping you. hmmm. salpynx
< 1729820209 981474 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wtf
< 1729820213 74122 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh well
< 1729820573 694104 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1729821146 417080 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@89.214.123.88 JOIN #esolangs X-Scale :[https://web.libera.chat] X-Scale
> 1729821413 889962 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07MinusGreater14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144183&oldid=143140 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+22) 10/* truth-machine */
> 1729821652 46646 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07IfSetThenSet14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144184&oldid=144157 5* 03ZCX islptng 5* (+2) 10"interpeter" "intresting" "inclufding" "comunity" "separateed" "certian"
> 1729822774 200931 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Deadfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144185&oldid=137860 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+38) 10/* Example programs */
< 1729823170 262757 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@89.214.123.88 QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1729823299 404604 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@89.214.123.88 JOIN #esolangs X-Scale :[https://web.libera.chat] X-Scale
> 1729823502 609554 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Alivehyperfish14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144186 5* 03ZCX islptng 5* (+1348) 10Created page with "This is a deadfish extension by [[User:ZCX islptng]].   ==Commands== This esolang has an infinite dimension memory array, and a cell stores 0~630 (mod 631 arithmetic). <br> {| class=wikitable !Command in Deadfish !Description |- |<code>i</code> |Increment cur
> 1729824018 4197 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Action symbol14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144187&oldid=144151 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+94) 10/* how it works */
> 1729824183 692078 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Alivehyperfish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144188&oldid=144186 5* 03ZCX islptng 5* (+468) 10Hello World
> 1729824444 943366 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Alivehyperfish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144189&oldid=144188 5* 03ZCX islptng 5* (+32) 10
> 1729826770 630553 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:10D Deadfish 7 with Time Travel and a Multiverse14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144190&oldid=134170 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+7) 10
< 1729826829 335086 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
> 1729828674 714891 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:10D Deadfish 7 with Time Travel and a Multiverse14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144191&oldid=144190 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+114) 10/* Command discussion */
< 1729830590 396154 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@89.214.123.88 QUIT :Quit: Client closed
> 1729831310 241230 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07SETANDCOUNT14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144192&oldid=144171 5* 03Cycwin 5* (+90) 10
< 1729831462 861657 :simcop2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1729831471 31099 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1729831530 344145 :perlbot!~perlbot@perlbot/bot/simcop2387/perlbot JOIN #esolangs perlbot :ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1729831560 351584 :simcop2387!~simcop238@perlbot/patrician/simcop2387 JOIN #esolangs simcop2387 :ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1729833986 319512 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wWwwW
< 1729834205 482287 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1729834564 547257 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1729836846 175483 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo JOIN #esolangs craigo :realname
> 1729839378 867821 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated ORK/None1 again914]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144193 5* 03None1 5* (+2164) 10Created page with "1. Take that Translated_ORK/PSTF_Again19|..."
> 1729839501 681040 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated ORK/None1 again914]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144194&oldid=144193 5* 03None1 5* (-32) 10
> 1729839553 796977 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated ORK/None1 again914]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144195&oldid=144194 5* 03None1 5* (+1) 10
< 1729839878 968260 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo QUIT :Quit: Leaving
> 1729840252 214287 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:None114]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144196&oldid=144182 5* 03None1 5* (-1) 10/* Timezone */  UTC+12 is NOT equal to UTC-12
> 1729840460 445682 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated ORK/None1 again914]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144197&oldid=144195 5* 03None1 5* (+61) 10
> 1729841267 712404 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated ZhongWen/None1 again314]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144198 5* 03None1 5* (+1767) 10Created page with "Make [[Translated ZhongWen/Mihai Again8]] crazier!  1. Take that program <pre>    1513               ;        </..."
< 1729842114 535227 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1729842183 489824 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
< 1729842622 720925 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1729844701 498793 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Deadfish/Implementations (M-Z)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144199&oldid=143059 5* 03None1 5* (+24) 10/* Python */  correct interpreter
> 1729844766 868954 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Pete mort14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144200 5* 03None1 5* (+1157) 10Created page with "'''Pete mort''' (Romanian for Dead fish) is an esolang invented by [[User:None1]]. It is a deadfish derivative.  ==Commands== {| class="wikitable" |- ! Command !! Corresponding Romanian word !! Meaning |- | c || cretere (increase) || Increment the accumulator |- | s || 
> 1729844828 913826 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Peste mort14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144201 5* 03None1 5* (+25) 10Redirected page to [[Pete mort]]
> 1729844951 729685 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144202&oldid=144084 5* 03None1 5* (+57) 10/* General languages */
> 1729844989 746499 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:None114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144203&oldid=143686 5* 03None1 5* (+57) 10/* My Esolangs */
> 1729845008 344988 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Pete mort14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144204&oldid=144200 5* 03None1 5* (+34) 10
> 1729845045 839046 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Pete mort14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144205&oldid=144204 5* 03None1 5* (+4) 10
> 1729845087 550789 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Deadfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144206&oldid=144185 5* 03None1 5* (+117) 10/* Commands */
> 1729845100 474185 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Deadfish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144207&oldid=144206 5* 03None1 5* (+18) 10/* Commands */
< 1729845322 70946 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
> 1729845415 230715 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Alivehyperfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144208&oldid=144189 5* 03ZCX islptng 5* (+1638) 10Implement and categories and TC proof
> 1729845446 278089 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Alivehyperfish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144209&oldid=144208 5* 03ZCX islptng 5* (+0) 10ouch i wrote the wrong category
> 1729846724 325589 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Snakel14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144210&oldid=144173 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+136) 10/* A+B Problem */
> 1729846738 367154 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Snakel14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144211&oldid=144210 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-12) 10/* A+B Problem */
> 1729846800 139112 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Snakel14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144212&oldid=144211 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-14) 10/* Truth-machine */
> 1729846918 989071 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages (N-S)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144213&oldid=136161 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-39) 10/* SPIKE */
> 1729846998 311362 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages (N-S)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144214&oldid=144213 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+221) 10/* Smurf */
> 1729847058 8313 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages (N-S)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144215&oldid=144214 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-1) 10
> 1729847110 251198 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages (nonalphabetic and A)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144216&oldid=141823 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+27) 10/* /// */
> 1729848965 899490 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Ttulka 5*  10uploaded "[[02File:Brainwhirl.png10]]"
> 1729852099 212290 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainwhirl14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144218 5* 03Ttulka 5* (+1629) 10init Brainwhirl
> 1729852216 559982 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainwhirl14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144219&oldid=144218 5* 03Ttulka 5* (+0) 10/* Brainwhirl to BF transpiler in JavaScript */ code format
> 1729853362 577801 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Ttulka14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144220&oldid=137287 5* 03Ttulka 5* (+171) 10add Brainwhirl
> 1729853480 565809 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144221&oldid=144135 5* 03Ttulka 5* (+17) 10/* B */ add Brainwhirl
> 1729853658 145675 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages (B-C)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144222&oldid=137146 5* 03Ttulka 5* (+93) 10add Brainwhirl
< 1729853790 50688 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs amby :realname
> 1729857210 452510 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainwhirl14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144223&oldid=144219 5* 03None1 5* (+5) 10/* Brainwhirl to BF transpiler in JavaScript */  Use pre for codebox without formatting
> 1729857341 413013 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages (B-C)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144224&oldid=144222 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+15) 10/* brainfuck */
< 1729858944 165294 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1729859404 865781 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn JOIN #esolangs toonn :Unknown
> 1729859492 696824 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03PerkyElixir22 5*  10New user account
> 1729861927 515198 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainwhirl14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144225&oldid=144223 5* 03Ttulka 5* (+35) 10/* Brainwhirl to BF transpiler in JavaScript */ add Category bf derivates
< 1729862246 166553 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1729863369 734670 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1729863485 332352 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1729864298 376845 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1729864793 38726 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1729864977 412822 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
< 1729865346 319460 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wWwwW
< 1729865432 593842 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1729865435 559520 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :salpnyx?
< 1729865449 896486 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*salpynx
< 1729866862 318789 :CanisCorvus!~CanisCorv@shef-17-b2-v4wan-169232-cust98.vm3.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] CanisCorvus
< 1729868441 301821 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1729868755 320163 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
> 1729869363 412847 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Alivehyperfish/Constants14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144226 5* 03ZCX islptng 5* (+15698) 10Created page with "Those are the shortest form to generate a constant, inspired by [[Deadfish/Constants]]. <pre>     0     1             idd     2           iddir     3            dsdd     4              id     5           iddid     6             dsd     7           
> 1729870150 667165 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Alivehyperfish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144227&oldid=144209 5* 03ZCX islptng 5* (+72) 10Better interpreter
< 1729870218 807054 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :. o O ( If only there was a way to see which users are currently on the channel. )
< 1729870840 303148 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :can you have generics without monomorphization?
< 1729870952 688149 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Java does that
< 1729872303 320373 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wWwwW
< 1729872354 884808 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :can you have generics without monomorphization when compiling to machine code?
< 1729874008 462669 :molson!~molson@2001-48F8-704A-446-2DD4-ECEC-7C13-58C1-dynamic.midco.net JOIN #esolangs molson :realname
< 1729874199 151043 :molson__!~molson@2001-48F8-704A-446-BDEB-E5C6-16E8-4779-dynamic.midco.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1729875256 948149 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Haskell does that
< 1729875317 319455 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1729875665 827228 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1729875742 244323 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Ractangle/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144228&oldid=144052 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+59) 10/* An actual APL-like language */
> 1729875788 752119 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Ractangle 5*  10moved [[02AREA10]] to [[JAGL]]
> 1729875821 760647 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07JAGL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144231&oldid=144229 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-176) 10
< 1729876074 530715 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1729877520 416449 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07JAGL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144232&oldid=144231 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+40) 10/* Syntax */
> 1729877544 241108 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Snakel14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144233&oldid=144212 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-1) 10/* Examples */
> 1729877572 7169 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Snakel14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144234&oldid=144233 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-3) 10
< 1729878611 448598 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Soni: Consider the void*
< 1729878632 978545 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: void* isn't typechecked
< 1729878654 377173 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The only thing that the machine doesn't know about a generic object is its extent: its storage, its capabilities, its internal invariants. But the machine has no problem representing a *pointer* to a generic object.
< 1729878674 610161 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :sure
< 1729878706 507294 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Also Java can be compiled to machine code; GCC used to have a Java frontend! Careful not to confuse compilation strategies and languages.)
< 1729878732 67458 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :but if you pass a function taking void* and a void* to some other function, the machine can't tell that you didn't pass e.g. a string and a function that expects an integer, because it's all void*
< 1729878754 8693 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah yeah
< 1729878781 377076 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sure. The machine doesn't know about any types defined by programmers; the machine existed before those definitions.
< 1729878837 943101 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :can you have a compiler without code output?
< 1729878881 231257 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Depends on the definition of "compiler" but probably no. A compiler is a function from one language to another, satisfying some conditions. (People disagree on those conditions.)
< 1729878903 611032 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :alright
< 1729878924 789412 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :is an assembler a compiler?
< 1729878961 57777 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Soni: One idea I've recently come to love: a polymorphic function isn't a single function. It's a *family* of functions, one for each possible tuple of types. For example, there's not a single identity function, but identity for ints, identity for nats, etc.
< 1729879000 422263 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: that's the traditional way of doing it, yeah
< 1729879003 525862 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think that assemblers are compilers. Some folks would argue that an assembler is an input tool only, because we're still writing machine code; it's just easier to write than raw hex.
< 1729879065 719275 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's also the worst way of doing it (see: rust)
< 1729879070 162619 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :(also see: C++)
< 1729879085 5498 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :But modern assemblers, starting with e.g. nasm, have fairly powerful macro languages. At least in esolangs-world, macro languages are distinct from their underlying expression languages; e.g. bfmacro is distinct from Brainfuck.
< 1729879116 677459 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :... well lisp is a macro language
< 1729879158 279891 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Common Lisp and Scheme are macro languages, at least. Kernel is a Lisp with f-exprs rather than macros.
< 1729879205 890177 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The languages we've talked about so far (Java, Rust, C++) are actually defined in terms of *abstract machines*. They aren't about writing machine code, nor about functions.
< 1729879238 928906 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :what about elixir?
< 1729879244 468969 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Haskell is defined in terms of functions on a certain funky domain (omega-DCPOs? something CPO-shaped); lots of folks think of it as functions on sets, which is wrong but understandable.
< 1729879272 993545 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Elixir and Gleam are defined over an abstract machine called BEAM, IIUC. Same abstract machine as Erlang.
< 1729879286 498981 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :(okay, we have no idea what a CPO is)
< 1729879297 954884 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, but elixir is lisp-like
< 1729879325 768096 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Complete Partial Order. A system where each set supports a refinement operation that represents computation, possibly never halting.)
< 1729879334 55010 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Like, in Haskell, this is a function: f x = f x
< 1729879355 372441 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :In C++ or Rust, that's not a function. It's a definable procedure which will loop forever when executed, but it's not a function; it's not a mapping from inputs to outputs.
> 1729879396 628114 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Bogdan19284814]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144235 5* 03Bogdan192848 5* (+214) 10Created page with "='''''Hello!'''''= ''I am Ionita Bogdan, an guy who likes making stupid (or hard) languages and aslo works at the SCP (just kidding).''  ''My favourite phrase is "Did you know that I exist?", and i dont know why.''"
< 1729879441 102922 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :what does that mean?
< 1729879506 232669 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :No idea. I'm still puzzling over how Elixir is like Lisp.
< 1729879552 681814 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Like, a macro system is usually a detachable part of a language; we can have the underlying language without macros. The word "macro" comes from Greek and means "big"; a macro is a big expression.
< 1729879599 754972 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :the entire syntax is macros
< 1729879649 429831 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://hexdocs.pm/elixir/main/macros.html
< 1729879726 647986 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :That's not the entire syntax. At least numeric literals appear to be parsed directly without any expansion or substitution.
< 1729879763 3828 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah, fair enough
< 1729879819 546039 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :elixir is pretty weird compared to most of the popular languages out there
< 1729879833 499017 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's just Ruby on BEAM, isn't it?
< 1729879871 115222 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I mean, I didn't really pay too much attention to it when it was announced, but IIRC it was originally just a way for folks familiar with Ruby to write BEAM apps without learning Erlang's older, Prolog-inspired syntax.
< 1729879879 955741 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :...Maybe Erlang is Prolog on BEAM?
< 1729879934 932090 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :we don't know ruby
< 1729879958 753963 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :so, no idea honestly
< 1729880017 929158 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :(but writing elixir is hard coming from rust and stuff)
< 1729880049 319192 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wWwwW
< 1729880060 739566 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Soni: Where are y'all headed with this, BTW? Is this about understanding the tradeoffs we make when compiling to machine code, or something else?
< 1729880111 79378 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: yes, and also we want to implement a type checker and we don't really know how to do it
< 1729880215 529059 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Most type checkers start out as functions from ASTs to types; each AST is assigned a type. You'll probably need a context; the function takes a pair of AST and context, and assigns the AST a type in that context.
< 1729880235 523821 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :A type context is usually just a mapping from names to types.
< 1729880268 884102 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Soni: That said, I bet that y'all are also looking for a type system. Once the type system is chosen, the type checker is straightforward to implement.
< 1729880298 181297 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :idk what to do:[ i want to esolang but i have no ideas
< 1729880370 576484 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: you already lost us ^^' (shit this is gonna be hard isn't it ;-;)
< 1729880382 622758 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: I know the pain of wanting to make art but having no ideas. When I'm at the piano and don't feel like playing anything in particular, I'll play scales, do stretches, or work on difficult small techniques ("bursts") that would be distracting to work on when practicing a complete song.
< 1729880404 240682 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok
< 1729880407 432839 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ill mess around ig
< 1729880422 15168 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Part of why we've pushed you to learn to code is that it will improve your artistic abilities; your artlangs will make more sense if you know more about how computers work.
< 1729880424 287394 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :just go on stackoverflow until i see something interesting lol
< 1729880438 331373 :impomatic!~impomatic@host165-120-250-252.range165-120.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic
< 1729880502 118654 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Soni: A type system is a way of viewing a language. Each expression in the language is given a type. It's not hard, but it's open-ended; what is the point of adding types?
< 1729880550 664861 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: the point of adding types is to have local reasoning and prevent bugs
< 1729880611 921079 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Soni: Okay, that's *soundness*; some expressions *don't* have types, and an expression has some sort of safety guarantee as long as it has a type.
< 1729880659 964416 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Soundness has to be traded off with completeness (if an expression is safe, then it has a type) and decidability (a type checker exists and halts on all inputs).
< 1729880694 57305 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :If your language isn't TC (Turing-complete) then a sound, complete, decidable type checker is often possible. This is what I prefer to do.
< 1729880765 848362 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :is the type system part of the language?
< 1729880815 750665 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Most practical compilers will go for a sound *incomplete* system that always halts but sometimes rejects valid expressions. A great example is GHC, which sometimes rejects valid Haskell programs because it couldn't prove that they are well-typed.
< 1729880845 420709 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i think i have one thng i found but idk how to esolang it: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/arrays
< 1729880852 584238 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah *nod*
< 1729880857 714112 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Meh. Some type systems are part of the language, in the sense that there are intended semantics which reflect the types at runtime. Think Java's `Object` or Python's `type`. These aren't what we're talking about, though.
< 1729881047 725068 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Arrays are a standard part of many languages and machines. I'm concerned that you're rushing through the *appearance* of computer science without actually focusing on any topics.
< 1729881065 604293 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :“<Soni> can you have a compiler without code output?” => depends on your definitions, but for a JIT compiler that generates code then immediately executes it without saving it anywhere you may count it as no code *output*. OTCC is the classic example.
< 1729881067 197868 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :idk what to focuz on
< 1729881114 601932 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Did you write down in your notes any of the popular languages that I recommended you learn? It's been a few weeks; if you had picked one of those langauges and started working through a tutorial, then you could start building very simple interpreters for languages like 1BRC or DIVSPL.
< 1729881146 172617 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i didnt rlly have time cuz other stuff
< 1729881147 671669 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :“Like, a macro system is usually a detachable part of a language” => sure, but sometimes the macro system is all of the language, there's nothing but macro expansion, and macro expansion is powerful enough that it counts a programming language. m4 and https://esolangs.org/wiki/SIMPLE_(preprocessor) are like that.
< 1729881157 70970 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but after a bakn account system in python ill go on
< 1729881162 228663 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :to learn mini kanren
< 1729881202 460541 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess that depends on what you call a "macro"
< 1729881230 707346 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Perhaps just focusing on Python would be good. After a year or two of that, you can branch out.
< 1729881253 654984 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :youve told me that minkanren is simple
< 1729881254 655102 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also
< 1729881269 599641 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i basically have learnt every sper no specific part of python
< 1729881277 662034 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ill switch for some time then go back
< 1729881282 255291 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :But, like, right now you appear to have time to dump random scribbles on the wiki. So when you say that you don't have time to think about those scribbles, or implement them, it makes me care less about your languages overall.
< 1729881298 996619 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :kkk
< 1729881310 708384 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea thats what i work on
< 1729881316 544318 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :im also just stupid and foget it
< 1729881317 544937 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but
< 1729881322 978629 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :im going to work one minikanren
< 1729881356 225633 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :“<korvo> […] Once the type system is chosen, the type checker is straightforward to implement.” => I'm not convinced about that. some of Haskell's type system expansions, especially higher order types, does make it rather complicated to typecheck. and if you count rust's borrow checker as a type system then that's hard to implement too. 
< 1729881367 797535 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: I bet you have lots to learn about Python. Here's one of my favorite examples: what do the snippets `x = not y` and `x == not y` do? What's the difference?
< 1729881385 623032 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the diffrenece is
< 1729881397 408335 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the first one sats x to not(y)
< 1729881410 118140 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the second on is a conditinal equals to? perhaps
< 1729881422 507408 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: That's a problem of syntax, mostly. Haskell chose letrecs and pointed functions, which are a horrible combination. I agree that general recursion *necessarily* is a tricky thing to get right.
< 1729881444 353420 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :aaaah
< 1729881463 445236 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess you could say that it's the type *inference* that's hard, typechecking if you know the types isn't
< 1729881467 830439 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :But also it's rare that a language couldn't just be shoved into Prolog or miniKanren and have a typing relation directly expressed as a unification over terms. There's even a nice framework, AAM Redex, implemented in Racket.
< 1729881470 12552 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :for haskell extensions that is
< 1729881493 945532 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i cant do minikanren cuz idk what the ебать is
< 1729881514 339953 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*what the ебать scheme is
< 1729881525 748894 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Next time, *try it and see*. This is so important that it's got an abbreviation, TIAS. The second example is a *syntax error* because of a quirk in Python's grammar; I would only expect folks to know this if they've tried implementing Python.
< 1729881552 398946 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i have infact not tried to implement python
< 1729881554 205983 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and i will
< 1729881558 359014 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :rpoporally not
< 1729881632 681717 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok
< 1729881660 42162 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what the actual *hell*, is _.0
< 1729881662 946970 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: what the heck... is that because the syntax tries to parse “is not”?
< 1729881715 333121 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't think I'd have noticed that even if I tried to implement python, because I wouldn't read the syntax rules that closely and it probably wouldn't occurr to me to test this specifically
< 1729881721 725233 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's a nice example
< 1729881728 916364 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :КАКОГО ЧЕРТА
< 1729881750 148233 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: It's not clear why, but the precedence levels are switched when it comes to compound comparisons like `x == y == z`, and this excludes the tokens `not` and `in`. Excluding `in` doesn't matter.
< 1729881768 369189 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm no, it's not because of “is not” because “x + not y” is also a syntax error
< 1729881863 311433 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :shachaf: I replayed Bee Magic a second time... Flipping the switch with flowers is much harder than I thought... I didn't realize how flower and cancel interact. (I did manage it.)
< 1729881868 270291 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: _.0 looks like an unbound logic variable from Bird's version of miniKanren in Scheme. In so-called "logic programming" languages, a variable might not have a value yet when it's printed; declaring a variable is not the same as assigning it.
< 1729881883 199800 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes i know
< 1729881885 243251 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :There are different macros. C has macros in the preprocessor which can be working separately from the rest of the program, although TeX and METAFONT macros are working differently, that they must be working together with the other stuff (and METAFONT macros can contain encapsulated values as well as tokens).
< 1729881906 894321 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :There are many other variants too.
< 1729881913 373727 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(and at that point you don't know about the second animal)
< 1729881941 799275 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: no, turns out it's just a precedence thing, the syntax doesn't allow the low precedence "not" operator in a part of the expression after a high precedence operator. that works fine for binary operators, but not for unary
< 1729881949 587895 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
< 1729881951 504448 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i see that i will бля когда-либо understand programming
< 1729882014 202377 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"is not" and "not in" are implemented in a sane way, they're not relevant for why this one is invalid
< 1729882050 429836 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: Yeah, I don't know why the unary operators are like that. They should be unified. I think GvR really liked the `not in` and `is not` sorts of constructions, even though we see here that they aren't generative or compositional.
< 1729882085 670527 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: "unified" how? it makes sense to have "not" as low precedence
< 1729882105 965928 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Again, at your age, I was learning Java out of a book. I was so excited to use first AWT and then Swing to set up a basic GUI with buttons that I could click.
< 1729882129 195812 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :thats more thna me
< 1729882130 107592 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Python comes with Tkinter precisely to enable this sort of experience. Raspberry Pis were calibrated to run Python with Tkinter smoothly.
< 1729882157 91693 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ive never done UI cuz moi ist чертовски глупо
< 1729882189 10909 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I mean that `not` and `not in` and `is not` are distinct, that's all. In Monte we scrapped almost all of this, and also scrapped chained comparisons, as too weird for users to learn.
< 1729882194 478678 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and the way the grammar is written out as bnf, I think it would actually be quite complicated to support "not" on the right hand side of binary operators, because the non-terminals that appear in the syntax for the right hand side expression of binary operators are ones that also appear on the left hand side (for other operators because of associativity), and you can't allow "not" in the left hand side 
< 1729882200 621107 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :expression
< 1729882201 971639 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :god i got an idea
< 1729882204 159973 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :an weird idea
< 1729882211 439865 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :an lly rlly weird idea
< 1729882214 560679 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but maybe its good
< 1729882215 746640 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok
< 1729882288 73003 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :<korvo> Sure. The machine doesn't know about any types defined by programmers; the machine existed before those definitions. ← plenty of processors have separate registers for ints and floats, and some have separate registers for code pointers and data pointers
< 1729882307 337422 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so the idea is inspired by communism where theres two classes with sub classes. the higher class can be applied ot worker operators like operator but they are also data. workers are data. they are all evalualted equally
< 1729882417 97194 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: right, though those aren't user-defined types, they're predefined by the processor
< 1729882433 812128 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Sure. But, like, the machine doesn't know about the native type theories of any particular language; the machine is a first-order symbolic manipulator, while the native type theory is usually a fairly rich dependently-typed theory.
< 1729882464 181914 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Python `int` in the syntax and native type theory isn't machine ints, which are first-order bit layouts with set-theoretic operators.
< 1729882523 943423 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I recognize that this is a very pedantic statement, but it's important that Soni sees the difference at some point so that they don't go mad from frustration with the machine's limitations.
< 1729882530 529993 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although… 
< 1729882553 615562 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think higher-level hardware existed in the past – things like Lisp machines
< 1729882556 612210 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it didn't really catch on
< 1729882596 321509 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :what is a bit?
< 1729882615 317522 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like a single digit in a binary number i think
< 1729882619 147419 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :normally atleast
< 1729882643 2669 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :but is it active low or active high
< 1729882667 183425 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it can be both
< 1729882669 424319 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :its just a word
< 1729882670 434507 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :for
< 1729882678 115647 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :a single binary digit
< 1729882700 925016 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think when people use bits, they are normally using them as a measure of the amount of storage available: if you have four bits, you can store as much information as you could using four registers each of which can hold either 0 or 1, but that doesn't necessarily mean the storage is actually implemented like that
< 1729882723 850890 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1729882724 923777 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Yeah, folks had that idea around the same time as the bad anti-Communism memes, and so there's an idea of "first-class" and "second-class" parts of a language: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-class_citizen
< 1729882744 332116 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :kk.
< 1729882763 249804 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :normal programming algnuages are then technically anarchist lol?
< 1729882764 600371 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :since
< 1729882774 48646 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :classes act upon each other very uniquely
< 1729882778 456820 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :For example, my recent change to Cammy makes nats first-class. Previously, they could only be referred to by a tower of succ, like (comp zero succ succ succ), but this week I also added alternative syntax: n3.
< 1729882780 516717 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :not following strict rules
< 1729882786 602424 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :incidentally, my suspicion is that computers are mostly implemented by storing the zeroed digits of a binary number using low voltages, and the nonzero digits using high voltages, even though there isn't any electronic or mathematical reason to do it like that
< 1729882796 715359 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1729882798 920743 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh well
< 1729882802 455279 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there *is*
< 1729882807 313398 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :its cuz transistors
< 1729882809 75410 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i think
< 1729882836 327010 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :with the sorts of transistors that computers are normally made from, the easiest logical operation to implement is NAND
< 1729882846 589375 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :its also
< 1729882849 308017 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, the easiest is NOT but you can't build a computer out of that
< 1729882849 638212 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :universal
< 1729882863 837128 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :COINCEDENCE??? lol
< 1729882875 574516 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, NAND is the easiest universal operator to use
< 1729882888 177942 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :then XNOR comes i thinl
< 1729882895 454312 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although. I think modern computers mostly use components that are symmetrical between high and low voltage, so NOR would be just as easy
< 1729882912 723197 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :wonder what an active-low computer would look like
< 1729882918 401286 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: no
< 1729882943 675076 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: how do i make a class of data and operators
< 1729882944 680058 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like
< 1729882950 921955 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :how do i make it a generalized
< 1729882953 856497 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :for the data
< 1729882955 444535 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(traditionally NOR is harder to implement because in traditional electronics, the low-voltage rail can sink more current than the high-voltage rail can source)
< 1729882955 704084 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yep, hardware folks will talk about NAND Flash and also NOR Flash. They have different behaviors IIRC when it comes to erasing and writing because of the different ways that they use the same voltage.
< 1729882958 87092 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that its an operator
< 1729882981 555063 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: my understanding is that these are just traditional names and there's no electronic reason why you couldn't invert all the voltages
< 1729882985 614797 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: iiuc modern integrated circuits are actually using semiconductor components that are *not* symmetrical between low and high voltage, because of weird semiconductor physics, but of course you can represent a 0 bit as either low or high as your choice, independently in many places of a chip in whatever is convenient
< 1729882990 859669 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :let me find the reference to this
< 1729882991 950186 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Look at an example. One great example is the integers, with addition and multiplication as operators.
< 1729882999 10032 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :true
< 1729883045 273263 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also before that, cathode ray tubes also weren't symmetric between positive and negative voltage, though I think relay logic is
< 1729883067 895270 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Made me look it up. We're both a little wrong. NAND and NOR flash are *analogies* based on the shapes of the original transistor circuits, and it's not about the orientation of the voltage.
< 1729883124 85144 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: right, that's consistent with what I remember
< 1729883125 612381 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :каждый гребаный idea is taken tbh
< 1729883130 287964 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :for prolangs
< 1729883138 984482 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Okay. Well, I'm a little wrong, at least.
< 1729883187 654801 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: relay logic is weird because there are two symmetries to think about – energised versus non-energised relays, and the polarities of the voltages used to energise the relays
< 1729883204 358740 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :e.g. a relay will be off if you connect both inputs to the positive rail because that doesn't provide any current flow
< 1729883205 464266 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: https://www.righto.com/2024/07/pentium-standard-cells.html “NMOS and PMOS transistors are not entirely symmetrical, however, due to the underlying semiconductor physics.”
< 1729883267 69300 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :“In operation, an NMOS transistor turns on when the gate is high, while a PMOS transistor turns on when the gate is low.”
< 1729883333 696629 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wawawawawait
< 1729883335 694184 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe
< 1729883340 543295 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :for my commie eoslang
< 1729883344 844395 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the higher class
< 1729883357 609093 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :its like
< 1729883360 350694 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lambda function
< 1729883369 285409 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but you also treat dem as numbers
< 1729883377 228549 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1729883400 724035 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh no, the USSR got them~
< 1729883450 799528 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: that's one of those "lies-to-children" (i.e. a simplified version of reality that can be used to approximate how the real thing works), although I think digital electronics is normally designed in such a way that it is actually true while the system is running
< 1729883494 894096 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: that's possible, but IIUC you need to know the difference to design efficient ICs
< 1729883538 429917 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :don't forget CMOS
< 1729883539 888849 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's actually true for CMOS diodes, because the photoelectric effect runs both ways: shining a bright light on an LED can increase its effective current. But it's usually not a problem for anything packaged in a die.
< 1729883540 524584 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but sure, it's useful to know that the semiconductor has both kinds of transistors
< 1729883572 89965 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Soni: have you read what I linked? it says “Modern processors are built from CMOS circuitry, which uses two types of transistors: NMOS and PMOS.”
< 1729883613 469534 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: what do you mean by "CMOS diode"? CMOS is a way to arrange MOS transistors into a circuit, whereas a diode is a different component than a transistor
< 1729883622 368630 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Solar panels are just large LEDs wired incorrectly~)
< 1729883666 34558 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I mean anything involving P- and N-doped silicon crystal placed edge-to-edge, I guess. That'd be transistors and diodes and maybe some other stuff?
< 1729883674 768975 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION slept through ECE undergrad

< 1729883703 603323 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, just electronics in general, fair enough
< 1729883727 493313 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(it's just "electrics" if you aren't using doped semiconductors)
< 1729883792 900061 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :transistors and diodes are the only regularly used electronic components, I think (except for the semiconductor-based insulators used to make silicon chips easier to fabricate) – thyristors exist and have a name but aren't commonly used, and the other possibilities aren't even named I think
< 1729883835 239763 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: huh, that's not quite how I use those words
< 1729883849 659572 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: it's our understanding that the symmetry (or lack thereof) doesn't matter in CMOS and that's why CMOS works so well
< 1729883862 849363 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :traditionally integrated circuits used silicon oxide when they needed an insulator, but more recently people realised you could just alternate layers of n-doped and p-doped silicon to build what is effectively an insulator, meaning that the chip fabrication machines didn't need to be able to create as many sorts of substances in the chip
< 1729883872 886077 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's pretty close to how writers use it; "electric" means Maxwell could explain it, "electronic" means he'd need Einstein's help.
< 1729883910 372639 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so there are three commonly used electronic components nowadays: diodes, transistors, and electronic insulators
< 1729883921 19300 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the latter doesn't really make sense outside integrated circuits, though
< 1729883921 123066 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think electronics is a subset of electrics that's defined by its purpose, namely electronics is when you're using electric components for control. so an electric motor or heating coil isn't electronics, but the part that shuts the heating coil off when the hairdryer overheats is electronics. whether it's using doped semicondoctor or relays or something else doesn't matter, the purpose does.
< 1729883950 785195 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm fairly sure that it isn't officially "electronics" if you're using relays, or thermionic valves
< 1729883969 458624 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :rather than transistors
< 1729883981 165787 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :those are electromechanics and thermionics we think?
< 1729883983 199101 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: huh... so you agree with ais on those words
< 1729883995 531991 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think it's about whether you need an electron to merely be an aggressive little unit of charge, or also to be something wavelike that can lose its identity within a metal/etc.
< 1729884041 367052 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION wonders if thermionic valves are still used for anything

< 1729884050 52016 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :there might be another name for valves we're misremembering
< 1729884050 124291 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: Yeah, more or less. They went over this in undergrad because they wanted to explain how computer engineering isn't the same as electrical work that an electrician might do.
> 1729884085 262221 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Snakel/Errors14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144236&oldid=144169 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+415) 10/* Using a wrong type in a variable */
< 1729884085 366282 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :for a long time, thermionics was kept alive by a) cathode-ray tube displays, b) audio enthusiasts who liked the specific way in which thermionic valve amplifiers distorted the input
< 1729884090 967651 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: just [uh what's the word for it?] headphone amplifiers
< 1729884118 646889 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: so if the computer is built from relays then you call it electromechanial and not electronic?
< 1729884120 58851 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :on the other hand, vacuum tubes are still widely used
< 1729884126 232443 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :They also went over tide clocks and analog computers, so that we would have a bit of historical context. So they definitely contrasted the early electric relays, telegrams, vacuum tubes, and wire/core memory with the electronic revolution: ICs, CMOS, etc.
< 1729884132 795875 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :(microwaves)
< 1729884157 646508 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :niche headphone amplifiers?
< 1729884170 69195 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :eh sure let's go with that
< 1729884194 603535 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: yes
< 1729884200 623879 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Soni: Mainstream amps too. I have a vacuum tube in my keyboard's preamp. Korg put it there because they insist that no solid-state modeling can ever get as smooth, and...yeah, they might be right.
< 1729884218 910406 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although "electromechanical" also refers to other ways to do calculation using electricity and moving parts, such as using motors to turn switches on and off
< 1729884231 44923 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: haha
< 1729884241 388658 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(although I am not 100% sure I would be able to argue that that is *not* a relay)
< 1729884259 716735 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I remember as a child when the pinball machines "went digital", mid-90s. They used to be full of relays, and only dedicated arcades owned them because of the expense; they were often leased.
< 1729884302 756572 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_tube#cite_note-6 claims that vacuum tubes can count as electronics
< 1729884303 648206 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :And then suddenly there's Star Wars with a digital screen and a projector and digital audio; maybe only the flippers were relays. It was a big shift.
< 1729884356 362408 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: a projector?! damn
< 1729884421 132437 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: right, the kind of electric typewriters or teletypes like the Selectric are called "electromechanical": they have an electric motor for power, but apart from that they're purely mechanical, if you'd connect the powering shaft to a water wheel instead of an electric motor then there'd be no electricity in it but it would work just as much
< 1729884438 546712 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and that's how I'd usually use "electromechanical", I wouldn't call a relay computer "electromechanical"
< 1729884488 301409 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Soni: It was a second digital display with a mirror. I'd call it a Pepper's ghost setup: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper%27s_ghost
< 1729884569 880667 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Soni: FWIW this particular pinball machine is legendary enough to have its own article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Episode_I_(pinball)
< 1729884609 920534 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah, nailed it, it's indeed Pepper's ghost: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinball_2000
< 1729884667 757521 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :...Sorry, I'm going all wooden-escalators. Probably means I need food. Peace y'all.
< 1729884844 341231 :supercode!~supercode@user/supercode JOIN #esolangs supercode :[https://web.libera.chat] supercode
< 1729885020 672150 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :apparently a cavity magnetron is a type of vacuum tube, and those are still commonly used nowadays to generate microwaves (e.g. in microwave ovens)
> 1729885064 189356 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07XSVL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144237&oldid=89201 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+107) 10
> 1729885071 742557 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07XSVL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144238&oldid=144237 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+4) 10/* Examples */
< 1729885150 455321 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, but you asked specifically for thermionic *valves* so I think that doesn't count
> 1729885194 709167 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07XSVL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144239&oldid=144238 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (-4) 10/* Examples */
< 1729885221 994279 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think we only use mechanical (relay or similar) and solid state (semiconductor) for that these days
< 1729885262 400531 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :plus you could count old style fuses which can be shut off only once
> 1729885296 931787 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07XSVL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144240&oldid=144239 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+72) 10/* Examples */
< 1729885327 476349 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :those are still in use just less often in favor of relays that can be reset
> 1729885455 269602 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07FlipFlop14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144241&oldid=142528 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+100) 10/* Examples? */
< 1729885641 752102 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I'm about to head out the door; don't rush with an answer. Is there already a page for 1 Billion Rows Challenge? It seems like the kind of thing you'd like, and it's on my list of languages that need a stub page.
> 1729885756 946597 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144242&oldid=142057 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+228) 10
> 1729885772 7616 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144243&oldid=144242 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+11) 10
> 1729885789 903086 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144244&oldid=144243 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+0) 10
> 1729885818 266929 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144245&oldid=144244 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (-782) 10
> 1729885841 126660 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144246&oldid=144245 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+783) 10
> 1729885904 52895 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144247&oldid=144246 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+36) 10
> 1729885979 428959 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144248&oldid=144247 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+232) 10
> 1729886049 199170 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144249&oldid=144248 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+6) 10
> 1729886060 985022 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144250&oldid=144249 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+1) 10
< 1729886297 560893 :impomatic!~impomatic@host165-120-250-252.range165-120.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: Client closed
> 1729886368 648345 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144251&oldid=144250 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+388) 10/* the 90 instruction itself */ new section
< 1729886421 558103 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :shachaf: oh well, final silliness: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/bee-trapped.png
> 1729886473 693718 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144252&oldid=144251 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+314) 10/* the 90 instruction itself */
> 1729886489 561222 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144253&oldid=144252 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (-157) 10/* the 90 instruction itself */
> 1729886532 148478 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144254&oldid=144253 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+0) 10/* the 90 instruction itself */
> 1729886543 483026 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144255&oldid=144254 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+0) 10/* the 90 instruction itself */
> 1729886867 248639 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144256&oldid=144255 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+163) 10/* Reverse Hello, World! Program */ new section
> 1729886910 192769 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144257&oldid=144256 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+84) 10/* Reverse Hello, World! Program */
> 1729886944 630427 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144258&oldid=144257 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+54) 10/* Reverse Hello, World! Program */
> 1729887004 944897 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144259&oldid=144258 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+12) 10/* the 90 instruction itself */
< 1729887238 453269 :Everything!~Everythin@178-133-77-41.mobile.vf-ua.net JOIN #esolangs Everything :Everything
> 1729887496 819971 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144260&oldid=144259 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+23) 10
> 1729888329 703762 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144261&oldid=144260 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+6) 10/* Example Program */
> 1729888344 121659 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144262&oldid=144261 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+6) 10/* Example Program */
> 1729888351 568968 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144263&oldid=144262 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+1) 10/* Example Program */
> 1729888581 517590 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144264&oldid=144263 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+68) 10/* the 90 instruction itself */
< 1729888766 695286 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: I haven't heard of that, which somewhat reduces the chance that a page exists
< 1729889578 431689 :Everything!~Everythin@178-133-77-41.mobile.vf-ua.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
> 1729889649 107380 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[079014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144265&oldid=137482 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+18) 10/* Analysis */
< 1729889731 127424 :Everything!~Everythin@178-133-29-214.mobile.vf-ua.net JOIN #esolangs Everything :Everything
> 1729889801 992144 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144266&oldid=144264 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+222) 10/* I/O */ new section
> 1729890205 612542 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144267&oldid=144266 5* 03Ais523 5* (+256) 10/* I/O */ it can do I/O
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< 1729891204 89861 :Everything!~Everythin@178-133-29-214.mobile.vf-ua.net JOIN #esolangs * :Everything
< 1729892019 154297 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
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> 1729892925 572259 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144268&oldid=144267 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+49) 10/* the 90 instruction itself */
> 1729893120 745630 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144269&oldid=144268 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+18) 10/* the 90 instruction itself */
> 1729893186 344629 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144270&oldid=144269 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+265) 10/* Reverse Hello, World! Program */
> 1729893193 616550 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144271&oldid=144270 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+264) 10/* I/O */
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> 1729896094 651789 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[071 Billion Row Challenge14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144272 5* 03Corbin 5* (+613) 10Stub 1BRC.
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< 1729898290 857756 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1729899245 484512 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated ORK/Mihai Again1714]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144273 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+2170) 10Created page with "This was made on this, pretty good laptop, also we have a new translator than can go BOOM!  1. Take that [[Translated ORK/None again9|shitty sh*t]]  <pre> Woahhhhhhhhhhhh Woahhhhhhhhhhhh 2012 2000 09-EE [2] 2012 2017 09-EEE [2] 2012-EE (2012) RAAD.
> 1729899415 546851 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07DeafPig14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144274&oldid=125583 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+42) 10/* Interpreter */
> 1729899478 243552 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07How to learn this language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144275&oldid=115498 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+31) 10/* Example */
> 1729899563 38851 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07How to learn this language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144276&oldid=144275 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+32) 10/* Example */
> 1729900245 97664 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07O()14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144277&oldid=143106 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (-1) 10/* 99 bottles of beer */
< 1729900312 574842 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :b_jonas
> 1729900396 733480 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07O()14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144278&oldid=144277 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+21) 10/* other commands */
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> 1729900549 878069 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07O()14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144279&oldid=144278 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+53) 10/* other commands */
> 1729900624 257043 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07O()14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144280&oldid=144279 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+55) 10/* Truth-machine */