> 1729900803 268670 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated ORK/Mihai Again1714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144281&oldid=144273 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+1) 10
> 1729903007 53426 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Translated ORK/Mihai Again1714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144282&oldid=144281 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+32) 10
> 1729911127 367055 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144283&oldid=143773 5* 03TheThunderGuyS 5* (+213) 10/* delete account */ new section
> 1729911210 126884 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144284&oldid=144283 5* 03TheThunderGuyS 5* (+105) 10/* delete account */
> 1729912976 814844 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:Categorization14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144285&oldid=144138 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+518) 10/* Proposal: Category:Physics-based */ new section
< 1729915015 375197 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wWwwW
< 1729915544 320425 :wWwwW93!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wWwwW
< 1729917199 475601 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo JOIN #esolangs craigo :realname
> 1729918138 112304 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07 14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144286 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+1113) 10Created page with "''' ''' russian for fucking shit, is an esolang created by [[User:Yayimhere]]. it was created becuase he has begun in chatrooms instead of saying fuck shit ect. has just said it in russian == how it works ==   uses a stack of single numbers. programs are made up of english 
< 1729918154 932285 :wWwwW93!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1729920625 750151 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 QUIT :Quit: Client closed
> 1729920945 185587 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07SETANDCOUNT14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144287&oldid=144192 5* 03Cycwin 5* (+118) 10
> 1729922018 631554 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07SETANDCOUNT14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144288&oldid=144287 5* 03Cycwin 5* (+0) 10
> 1729922295 862017 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Alivehyperfish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144289&oldid=144227 5* 03ZCX islptng 5* (-243) 10the interpreter now works correctly.
> 1729922407 383043 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07SETANDCOUNT14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144290&oldid=144288 5* 03Cycwin 5* (+0) 10
> 1729923150 138013 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144291&oldid=144284 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+200) 10/* delete account */
< 1729923189 99411 :nitrix!~nitrix@user/meow/nitrix QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in
< 1729923321 495270 :nitrix!~nitrix@user/meow/nitrix JOIN #esolangs nitrix :ZNC - https://znc.in
< 1729924246 568562 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1729924427 419161 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Assemble14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144292 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+7345) 10Created page with "Assemble is an Esolang designed by PSTF to expand the original Assembly language.  == Instructions == {| class="wikitable" |+ Instruction table |- ! Instruction !! From !! Meaning |- | add <num> || ('''add'''ition) || Add the number after the instruction to the a
> 1729925027 27974 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144293&oldid=144221 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+15) 10
> 1729925296 215341 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07PythOwO14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144294&oldid=143835 5* 03RaiseAfloppaFan3925 5* (+1371) 10
< 1729928148 929021 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1729928300 778955 :manish!~manish@user/manish JOIN #esolangs manish :Manish Kundu
< 1729928424 468633 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1729928685 558506 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
< 1729928962 391535 :Guest22!~Guest22@2405:201:d023:3863:d0e0:d21a:ab56:c6a3 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Guest22
< 1729929034 839633 :Guest22!~Guest22@2405:201:d023:3863:d0e0:d21a:ab56:c6a3 PART :#esolangs
> 1729931967 102044 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Alivehyperfish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144295&oldid=144289 5* 03ZCX islptng 5* (+2314) 10the interpreter now works correctly. Also compiler and improved Hello World.
> 1729932131 851268 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07SETANDCOUNT14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144296&oldid=144290 5* 03Cycwin 5* (+984) 10
> 1729932229 338203 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144297&oldid=144170 5* 03Cycwin 5* (+93) 10
> 1729932264 714595 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:PythonshellDebugwindow14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144298&oldid=144297 5* 03Cycwin 5* (+1) 10
< 1729934415 613475 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1729934874 215900 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
> 1729935497 257707 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07SETANDCOUNT14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144299&oldid=144296 5* 03Cycwin 5* (+139) 10
> 1729939104 610905 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Ractangle14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144300&oldid=144046 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-12) 10/* Esolangs */
< 1729939158 638376 :manish!~manish@user/manish PART #esolangs :Leaving
> 1729940634 553405 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Langton's ant14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144301&oldid=143173 5* 03Iddi01 5* (+424) 10Make this article more fitting for featuring
> 1729941016 196037 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144302&oldid=143182 5* 03Iddi01 5* (+207) 10/* List of candidates */ Edited paragraph to reflect article change
< 1729942760 420104 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@31.22.151.110 JOIN #esolangs X-Scale :[https://web.libera.chat] X-Scale
< 1729942842 320192 :iddi01!~iddi01@2604:9cc0:14:8d60:d5b0:dacd:a37a:e880 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] iddi01
< 1729943297 950186 :iddi01!~iddi01@2604:9cc0:14:8d60:d5b0:dacd:a37a:e880 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: *emergency bug report on zemhill* I was looking into why the heck atom loses against everything, 1337 rises higher than leviathan, and the other weird scoring behavior on the hill, and i found it: even though the breakdown for atom shows all losses, the games page
< 1729943298 444003 :iddi01!~iddi01@2604:9cc0:14:8d60:d5b0:dacd:a37a:e880 PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://zem.fi/bfjoust/game/#joust,david_werecat.atom,david_werecat.leviathan,940981f shows both wins and losses! fix it before atom DROPS OUT THE HILL
< 1729943380 649114 :iddi01!~iddi01@2604:9cc0:14:8d60:d5b0:dacd:a37a:e880 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I won't submit any programs until it is fixed)
< 1729943526 156126 :iddi01!~iddi01@2604:9cc0:14:8d60:d5b0:dacd:a37a:e880 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`echo @tell fizzie *emergency bug report on zemhill* I was looking into why the heck atom loses against everything, 1337 rises higher than leviathan, and the other weird scoring behavior on the hill, and i found it: even though the breakdown for atom shows all losses, the games page
< 1729943526 655930 :iddi01!~iddi01@2604:9cc0:14:8d60:d5b0:dacd:a37a:e880 PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://zem.fi/bfjoust/game/#joust,david_werecat.atom,david_werecat.leviathan,940981f shows both wins and losses! fix it before atom DROPS OUT THE HILL
< 1729943528 881664 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​@tell fizzie *emergency bug report on zemhill* I was looking into why the heck atom loses against everything, 1337 rises higher than leviathan, and the other weird scoring behavior on the hill, and i found it: even though the breakdown for atom shows all losses, the games page
< 1729943616 616224 :iddi01!~iddi01@2604:9cc0:14:8d60:d5b0:dacd:a37a:e880 PRIVMSG #esolangs :doesn't work...
< 1729943659 377812 :iddi01!~iddi01@2604:9cc0:14:8d60:d5b0:dacd:a37a:e880 PRIVMSG #esolangs : @tell fizzie even though the breakdown for atom shows all losses, the games page https://zem.fi/bfjoust/game/#joust,david_werecat.atom,david_werecat.leviathan,940981f shows both wins and losses! fix it before atom DROPS OUT THE HILL
< 1729943659 678232 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1729943769 609481 :iddi01!~iddi01@2604:9cc0:14:8d60:d5b0:dacd:a37a:e880 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Are *so* many bot commands gone (i saw from logs the @tell command was used very often earlier at #esoteric)
< 1729944074 629943 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/bowserinator QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1729944081 989402 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1729944113 986334 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
> 1729944171 649216 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07!lyriclydemoteestablishcommunism!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144303&oldid=142092 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-67) 10/* Examples */
> 1729944301 104478 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07!lyriclydemoteestablishcommunism!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144304&oldid=144303 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+73) 10/* Implementations */
< 1729944430 431030 :iddi01!~iddi01@2604:9cc0:14:8d60:d5b0:dacd:a37a:e880 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`echo `echo `echo `echo `echo `echo  `echo `echo `echo `echo `echo `echo
< 1729944431 686853 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​`echo `echo `echo `echo `echo  `echo `echo `echo `echo `echo `echo
< 1729944499 479808 :iddi01!~iddi01@2604:9cc0:14:8d60:d5b0:dacd:a37a:e880 PRIVMSG #esolangs :^echo `echo ^echo
< 1729944499 585071 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :`echo ^echo `echo ^echo
< 1729944500 689220 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​^echo `echo ^echo
< 1729944600 705261 :iddi01!~iddi01@2604:9cc0:14:8d60:d5b0:dacd:a37a:e880 PRIVMSG #esolangs :^echo `echo ^echo `echo ^echo STUPID BOTLOOP PROTECTION
< 1729944600 806248 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :`echo ^echo `echo ^echo STUPID BOTLOOP PROTECTION `echo ^echo `echo ^echo STUPID BOTLOOP PROTECTION
< 1729944602 310472 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​^echo `echo ^echo STUPID BOTLOOP PROTECTION `echo ^echo `echo ^echo STUPID BOTLOOP PROTECTION
< 1729944669 331705 :iddi01!~iddi01@2604:9cc0:14:8d60:d5b0:dacd:a37a:e880 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`echo !ztest test <
< 1729944670 341514 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​!ztest test <
< 1729944689 537183 :iddi01!~iddi01@2604:9cc0:14:8d60:d5b0:dacd:a37a:e880 PRIVMSG #esolangs :^echo !ztest test <
< 1729944689 615880 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :!ztest test < !ztest test <
< 1729944689 690499 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :fungot.test: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47
< 1729944690 7901 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :zemhill: no thanks, i didn't know there even was a lauri, the real wtf is that
< 1729944928 993676 :iddi01!~iddi01@2604:9cc0:14:8d60:d5b0:dacd:a37a:e880 PRIVMSG #esolangs :^echo `echo maybe the tell command failed due to a space
< 1729944929 83084 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :`echo maybe the tell command failed due to a space `echo maybe the tell command failed due to a space
< 1729944930 211223 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe the tell command failed due to a space `echo maybe the tell command failed due to a space
< 1729945036 265737 :iddi01!~iddi01@2604:9cc0:14:8d60:d5b0:dacd:a37a:e880 PRIVMSG #esolangs :@tell fizzie even though the breakdown for atom shows all losses, the games page shows both wins and losses! fix it before atom DROPS OUT THE HILL
< 1729945036 314403 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@haskell/bot/lambdabot PRIVMSG #esolangs :Consider it noted.
< 1729945041 105205 :Bowserinator!Bowserinat@hellomouse/dev/bowserinator JOIN #esolangs Bowserinator :No VPS :(
< 1729945061 947134 :iddi01!~iddi01@2604:9cc0:14:8d60:d5b0:dacd:a37a:e880 PRIVMSG #esolangs :^echo `echo yes the command is not gone
< 1729945062 26119 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :`echo yes the command is not gone `echo yes the command is not gone
< 1729945063 161866 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes the command is not gone `echo yes the command is not gone
< 1729945095 305841 :iddi01!~iddi01@2604:9cc0:14:8d60:d5b0:dacd:a37a:e880 PRIVMSG #esolangs :^echo ^echo
< 1729945095 384238 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :^echo ^echo
< 1729945159 465328 :iovoid!iovoid@hellomouse/dev/iovoid JOIN #esolangs iovoid :you like ML? list every bias
< 1729945336 511599 :moony!moony@hellomouse/dev/moony JOIN #esolangs moony :Kaylie! (she/her)
< 1729945360 482571 :Everything!~Everythin@178-133-157-238.mobile.vf-ua.net JOIN #esolangs * :Everything
< 1729945883 631999 :iddi01!~iddi01@2604:9cc0:14:8d60:d5b0:dacd:a37a:e880 PRIVMSG #esolangs :^bf ,[.>,]<[<]>[.>]!^bf ,[.>,]<[<]>[.>]
< 1729945883 712168 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :^bf ,[.>,]<[<]>[.>]^bf ,[.>,]<[<]>[.>]
< 1729945911 709685 :iddi01!~iddi01@2604:9cc0:14:8d60:d5b0:dacd:a37a:e880 PRIVMSG #esolangs :^bf ,[.>,]<[<]>[.>]!^bf ,[.>,]<[<]>[.>]!
< 1729945911 787931 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :^bf ,[.>,]<[<]>[.>]!^bf ,[.>,]<[<]>[.>]!
> 1729946054 484769 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07SETANDCOUNT14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144305&oldid=144299 5* 03Cycwin 5* (+4) 10
< 1729946131 472650 :iddi01!~iddi01@2604:9cc0:14:8d60:d5b0:dacd:a37a:e880 PRIVMSG #esolangs :^echo ^bf ,[.>,]<[<]>[.>]!
< 1729946131 578677 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :^bf ,[.>,]<[<]>[.>]! ^bf ,[.>,]<[<]>[.>]!
< 1729946154 139145 :iddi01!~iddi01@2604:9cc0:14:8d60:d5b0:dacd:a37a:e880 PRIVMSG #esolangs :^echo `echo giving up on making botloop
< 1729946154 219184 :fungot!~fungot@2a01:4b00:82bb:1341::a PRIVMSG #esolangs :`echo giving up on making botloop `echo giving up on making botloop
< 1729946155 360764 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :giving up on making botloop `echo giving up on making botloop
< 1729946161 463535 :iddi01!~iddi01@2604:9cc0:14:8d60:d5b0:dacd:a37a:e880 QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1729946309 326171 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@31.22.151.110 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds
< 1729946369 398400 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@89.214.120.242 JOIN #esolangs X-Scale :[https://web.libera.chat] X-Scale
< 1729948573 238607 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1729948612 436493 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07SETANDCOUNT14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144306&oldid=144305 5* 03Cycwin 5* (-110) 10
< 1729949214 472328 :Everything!~Everythin@178-133-157-238.mobile.vf-ua.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1729949335 174373 :Everything!~Everythin@195.138.86.118 JOIN #esolangs * :Everything
< 1729949372 434715 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn JOIN #esolangs toonn :Unknown
< 1729951227 169207 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :iddi01: giving up already? you haven't even tried to put perlbot or lambdabot into the loop.
> 1729951534 448231 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Community portal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144307&oldid=143017 5* 03B jonas 5* (+13) 10/* IRC */ perlbot
> 1729953160 761290 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144308&oldid=144291 5* 03Ais523 5* (+269) 10/* delete account */ account deletion isn't supported and it's unclear what it would do
< 1729953517 744686 :X-Scale!~X-Scale@89.214.120.242 QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1729953927 166418 :Everything!~Everythin@195.138.86.118 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
> 1729954044 663810 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[079014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144309&oldid=144265 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+18) 10"When run, a 90 program scans the memory of user-mode processes that it has '''permission''' to access, looking for sequences of octet in memory that form one of its patterns. When it finds such a pattern, it replaces each oc
> 1729954883 807300 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:BackFlip14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144310&oldid=92732 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+362) 10/* Programs with output */ new section
> 1729955143 643322 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144311&oldid=144271 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+668) 10/* I/O */
> 1729955601 259253 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144312&oldid=144311 5* 03Ais523 5* (+742) 10/* I/O */ I think you are missing the point of the language?
< 1729956857 145919 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1729956885 872628 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hrm. The game viewer is based on EgoJSout, and I've generally considered it the source of truth, but what with Lymia's recent discovered bug in it, I don't know if I'd trust it implicitly. Though that seems not relevant for david_werecat.atom.
< 1729956893 322112 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think what I'll do is, I'll add the current hill to the regression test suite, run it through EgoJSout with Lymia's workaround, and see if gearlance disagrees with it.
< 1729956905 333011 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's possible the version of `gearlanced` running live is missing some bugfixes as well, because it's clearly using an older version of the protocol used between the Ruby code and the C binary.
< 1729956938 888947 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Despite the "emergency", though, I think I'll still prioritize dinner first.
< 1729957172 635067 :Lymia!lymia@ayame.servers.aura.moe PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't think there's any bugs I can detect in gearlance.
< 1729957240 196010 :Lymia!lymia@ayame.servers.aura.moe PRIVMSG #esolangs :Rather, something's wrong with the hill's matrix displays.
< 1729957255 591056 :Lymia!lymia@ayame.servers.aura.moe PRIVMSG #esolangs :!bfjoust technically_not_instant_loss (-)*-1
< 1729957267 386249 :Lymia!lymia@ayame.servers.aura.moe PRIVMSG #esolangs :!zhill technically_not_instant_loss (-)*-1
< 1729957281 14338 :Lymia!lymia@ayame.servers.aura.moe PRIVMSG #esolangs :what was it
< 1729957281 929944 :Lymia!lymia@ayame.servers.aura.moe PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh right
< 1729957283 724787 :Lymia!lymia@ayame.servers.aura.moe PRIVMSG #esolangs :!zjoust technically_not_instant_loss (-)*-1
< 1729957284 341782 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Lymia.technically_not_instant_loss: points -12.21, score 10.75, rank 47/47
< 1729957331 734369 :Lymia!lymia@ayame.servers.aura.moe PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hrm. Did actually kick atom. Regardless, whatever's going wrong is not in gearlance itself.
< 1729957591 382915 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Mhm. Well, I should probably just update the running code to be the currently published one, anyway. Maybe that'll just fix it.
< 1729958825 756363 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1729959552 381167 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Alivehyperfish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144313&oldid=144295 5* 03ZCX islptng 5* (+476) 10A more powerful compiler.
< 1729959657 212708 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1729959728 453244 :Everything!~Everythin@static.208.206.21.65.clients.your-server.de JOIN #esolangs Everything :Everything
> 1729959759 378487 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[079014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144314&oldid=144309 5* 03Ais523 5* (-18) 10Undo revision [[Special:Diff/144309|144309]] by [[Special:Contributions/Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff|Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]] ([[User talk:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
> 1729959991 323819 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[079014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144315&oldid=144314 5* 03Ais523 5* (+743) 10/* Semantics */ clarify how the language operates
> 1729960021 832769 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[079014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144316&oldid=144315 5* 03Ais523 5* (-18) 10remove the "no IO" category too  causing another program to produce output as though it were from the 90 program may be possible
< 1729960054 434361 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
< 1729960079 308535 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: I think what is happening is that the lowest-scoring program is deleted from the hill before, or possibly racing with, the breakdown/matrix update
< 1729960088 582290 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so it shows as all losses because they're running on a deleted program
< 1729960756 367692 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1729960821 163312 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Have you found a program that would be universal for 90 yet? I'm imagining some sort of universal constructor which repeatedly unfolds itself, but I haven't figured out how to carve arbitrary control flow into the side of it with NOPs alone.
< 1729960863 38563 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: so 90 is inherently very system-specific as you need a "donor process" to take code from
< 1729960900 968330 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :my thoughts have mostly been about "OK, we can probably make a usable program out of any sufficiently long executable just by NOPping out most of it, how do we get that process back into its original state afterwards?"
< 1729960928 606837 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Sure. I was thinking x86, but I don't really care about ISA much. I don't think it helps; the best thing an ISA could do here is be Von Neumann so that both its code and data can be 90'd.
< 1729960940 371251 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it strikes me that the simplest approach is probably to do the equivalent of injecting a system(3) call
< 1729960953 368562 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: so 0x90 is the NOP instruction on x86 and x86_64, which is not a coincidence
< 1729961176 448634 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it strikes me that, assuming that you aren't allowed to cheat by adding new files to the disk or to memory (and that the 90 program is inaccessible to itself), you would need to be able to use existing files not just as code repositories, but as data repositories
< 1729961187 481065 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the whole idea is to scavenge components from other running programs
< 1729961192 124247 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :The way the logic goes is, whenever there's a new submission (as opposed to resubmitting an already existing program), it replaces the lowest-scoring existing program, and then the scores are recalculated. So any new submission (no matter how poor) will always kick off the current last place holder, and makes it onto the hill (as the new last place holder if nothing else). That's the only step
< 1729961194 777293 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :that removes a program from the hill; editing an existing program can never kick anyone off.
< 1729961260 688447 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :nonetheless, I frequently observe the last-place program with an implausible breakdown that loses to almost everything, with occasionally one win somewhere
< 1729961291 112130 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this even happened to Gregor's FFSPG
< 1729961328 488871 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :which had been a staple on the hill for years, and although I can imagine it falling into last place due to the competition getting better, can't imagine it happening with an almost-universal losing record
< 1729961377 408283 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Mhm. Well, gearlanced does have some code in it for a null "loses to everything" program that it initializes all the slots with when it starts. It could be linked to that somehow; or it could be a bug in the Ruby hill-manager I guess.
< 1729961405 123281 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :by the "occasionally one win" I mean on one tape length, not against one program
< 1729961406 299580 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Sure. But a donor isn't just a bag of ROP or LOTL organs. In this context, I'm interested in the conditions for a donor to exhibit universality.
< 1729961418 702227 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: ah right, I see
< 1729961425 264054 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :The output from gearlanced itself for the david_werecat.atom <-> david_werecat.leviathan match matches EgoJSout / the game viewer, so at least that's good.
< 1729961454 490320 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Like, how does a 90 program communicate a program index to a willing donor? It can't do it just by crossing off a carefully-formatted array and "blowing fuses", so to speak; that array has to be finite because donors are finite.
< 1729961482 464792 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: using my own local hill runner, I have atom scoring -8 against leviathan
< 1729961531 106051 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: doesn't really have to be finite, the host program can allocate more memory when the 90 parasite program that modifies it requests
< 1729961550 652343 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and write it with recognizable patterns
< 1729961569 288012 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: this reminds me of https://esolangs.org/wiki/%E2%84%92
< 1729961592 689539 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the idea that a language can fail to be truly Turing-complete because it only allows finitely many programs, but some of them are interpreters for TC languages
< 1729961613 939267 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I assumed that we were going to freeze all target processes before performing the rewrite; otherwise, 90 obviously doesn't terminate because there are joust-like donors that can detect 90's action and lock it.
< 1729961630 733248 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Which means that 90 only sees finitely many code segments, each of finite length.
< 1729961643 419137 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh wow, 90 Joust is a great concept
< 1729961657 908194 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although probably not interesting in terms of competitive gameplay
< 1729961681 771780 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :And WLOG we can talk about processes that start up, configure their heap to a preset function of their starting environment, and then wait to be 90'd.
< 1729961692 570171 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but, I was intending for a 90 interpreter to work using debugging APIs, which normally freeze a program while they're modifying it (I'm not sure if, e.g., Linux will even let you write to a process's memory image unless you freeze it first)
< 1729961732 378514 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Linux enforces a mutex for ptrace() and similar; not even root can debug an already-debugged process.)
< 1729961756 12086 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, root can kill the existing ptracer in order to be able to take over the ptrace
< 1729961765 117614 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or ptrace the ptracer and relay the debugging commands
< 1729961786 941927 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess with a willing host program you probably aren't even editing code segments. the program would just repeatedly prepare a short target buffer with pseudorandom contents so that each byte is recognizable easily by a 90 pattern, wait until the 90 parasite clears enough of its byte to communicate information, then decode and save that information, then reinitialize the buffer with a new pseudorandom 
< 1729961787 658542 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :That's what it says on https://zem.fi/bfjoust/game/#joust,david_werecat.atom,david_werecat.leviathan,940981f as well.
< 1729961792 955113 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :pattern that the parasite clears, repeat until the 90 sent all the data it wants, then run the decoded data
< 1729961803 208828 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Well, that says 8 rather than -8, but I think that summary is just the absolute value.)
< 1729961824 762925 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, both simulators have leviathan winning by 8
< 1729961878 95783 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I am now reminded of computer viruses (actual computer viruses, not worms or trojans or other types of malware)
< 1729961882 319400 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wWwwW
< 1729961901 898436 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: That makes sense. The resulting construction lets the donor learn the entire 90 program, given enough time. So the 90 program should be seen as data, not code? And then the donor can decide what to do with the learned information.
< 1729961906 182410 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :which modify executables to do something else, typically in a way that allows the original program to continue to be able to run
< 1729961943 584887 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hello
< 1729961949 352183 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :one old computer I had had a DOS virus scanner on it which had a human-readable virus database, together with human-written descriptions on how the viruses worked
< 1729961955 952379 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it was really interesting reading
< 1729961982 643147 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Okay, so a one-shot execution of 90 on a paused program probably isn't TC, but repeated execution until rewrites are no longer possible is TC in the same sense as Pressey's L. An interesting situation.
< 1729962026 679495 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think one-shot can be in L, although you need to take input from somewhere
< 1729962047 171772 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :as long as there's a suitable donor program, which there might not be
< 1729962063 972007 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I can easily imagine modifying, say, a scripting language interpreter to drop into a REPL
< 1729962075 502586 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :possibly even without code modification, just data modification
< 1729962085 163501 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Morning.
< 1729962098 912778 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :for me
< 1729962101 145521 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :its likf
< 1729962110 231893 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :say I have a Perl program that is running in a loop, and a 90 program that changes the debugging flags in the Perl process to put it into the debugger REPL mode
< 1729962112 31885 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :is that TC?
< 1729962130 119381 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :чертовски поздно in the afternoon
< 1729962153 126480 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"debugging APIs, which normally freeze a program while they're modifying it" => sure, but the 90 program would then choose to unfreeze the host program. I assumed you'd just repeatedly run the 90 program, then run the host program for a while, repeat
< 1729962180 785449 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, the 90 program would continue the debugged program upon detaching from it
< 1729962190 444300 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i wnat to make an esolang based on the tardis
< 1729962190 934860 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but i have basically no ideas
< 1729962195 745036 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :actually there is a potential race condition / lock if you have the 90 program creates a forkbomb
< 1729962224 631301 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :because then the number of processes it has access to is expanding over time, possibly faster than it can 90fy them
< 1729962289 745306 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :depending on how the 90 implementation enumerates processes to replace, that might potentially allow for TCness rather than just Lness?
< 1729962304 287809 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I'm gonna use Futamura theory to unanswer that one. These are two different Futamura projections (zeroth and first), if we think of 90's interpreter as a very silly specializer for x86 programs (as unpacked memory images, not as ELFs.)
< 1729962317 187156 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait your talking about 90. lets gooo lol
< 1729962369 309404 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :And then Futamura would tell us that the interpreter for 90 is TC iff its specializer is universal over possible behaviors of residualized programs.
< 1729962380 138859 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Not an answer, but a very sharp equivalence.
< 1729962387 101258 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :90 is basically one big conceptual problem in how to define programming languages / TCness, and we're not even sure if the language is unambiguously specified
< 1729962457 276751 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Oh, I'm sure you thought of this, but we can't allow any communication back to the 90 interp without trivializing the problem, at least for Von Neumann arches.
< 1729962526 345260 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :For consider a program which iterates through all legal 4KiB pages of PIC'd JIT-ready straight-line x86 code, occassionally evaluating those pages on a carefully-defined heap. This program basically presents each page to the 90 interp for approval/redaction, where the interp can reject a page entirely by blanking it.
< 1729962577 831020 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: I actually see the rule as slightly more general than that – if the target process is reading files prepared by the 90 programmer, including indirectly (e.g. via memory image or compiled output), that trivialises the problem too
< 1729962639 222 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or, e.g. by overwriting the 90 interpreter
< 1729962650 412086 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Yeah. This gives me confidence in the Futamura approach, which gives the strictest version of this barrier: the program being specialized *never executes* in the context of specialization, and is always data, not code.
< 1729962655 231241 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait
> 1729962662 993391 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Alivehyperfish/quine14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144317 5* 03ZCX islptng 5* (+29296) 10quine
< 1729962666 926502 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wouldnt 90 destrot the computer?
< 1729962672 665586 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like make it disfunctional
< 1729962685 870282 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm sorry, I got sidetracked by thinking about the problem of iterating over all legal 4KiB position-independent straight-line x86 code
< 1729962704 953897 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: if the program isn't very careful about what it overwrites, yes
< 1729962722 210466 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok
< 1729962723 455890 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Maybe. I imagine that an empty 90 program is legal, so an interesting question is which programs would not interfere with the computer's normal operation.
< 1729962726 785370 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this is part of the reason why nobody has ever written an interpreter or experimented with sample programs
< 1729962736 944502 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :personally
< 1729962738 922443 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i thino
< 1729962751 934401 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that you need a VM to b used then
< 1729962753 450748 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :cuz
< 1729962755 22529 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :welll
> 1729962759 776293 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Alivehyperfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144318&oldid=144313 5* 03ZCX islptng 5* (+124) 10Quine is complete!
< 1729962778 181659 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :"memory of user-mode processes that it has permission to access" -- does that include itself
< 1729962787 266878 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Oh, no worries. I'm doing the Gödel thing where I assume that computable things are enumerable. I don't know *how* it would be done, exactly, but I know that we can generate all possible pages, we can reject pages which aren't full of decodable ops, we can reject pages which have non-PIC,etc.
< 1729962795 372180 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if patterns contain a large number of non-targets they can likely be made very specific to situations that are only likely to come up if intended
< 1729962796 381201 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but that restriction is an easy way to keep the computer functioning
< 1729962840 803056 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: I am not sure whether, e.g., the condition of being position-independent is observable or whether it falls afoul of Rice's theorem
< 1729962854 676878 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Sure. In the open-source world, we often use QEMU for this sort of thing. QEMU is a little old and not the best in terms of security, but it is pretty good at pretending to be a 1990s PC.
< 1729962854 992259 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there are some sufficient conditions to be position-independent but it is unclear whether they are necessary…
< 1729962868 971432 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok
< 1729962870 409682 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :then. like
< 1729962878 926838 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it shiuld be pretty easy on like assembly
< 1729962922 867462 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I mean, I know JITs do this all the time simply by being restricted to some generative grammar (although they call it "NOLTIS", "BERG", etc.) so I'd be okay doing this bottom-up too. I wasn't trying to be fancy.
< 1729962923 955017 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`! c int main(void) { printf("Does the C interpreter still work?\n"); return 0; }
< 1729962927 57560 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Does the C interpreter still work?
< 1729962982 829050 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: It should be *possible* to do these experiments. They don't sound easy.
< 1729962986 762281 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`! c int main(int argc, char** argv) { int a[argc]; int *b = &a; *b = 1; printf("%d\n", *a); return 0; }
< 1729962988 902857 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :1
< 1729963002 112809 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`! c int main(int argc, char** argv) { int a[argc]; int *b = &a; *b = 1; printf("%p\n", (void *)a); return 0; }
< 1729963003 976394 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :0x7fbfacaa50
< 1729963005 615473 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`! c int main(int argc, char** argv) { int a[argc]; int *b = &a; *b = 1; printf("%p\n", (void *)a); return 0; }
< 1729963007 567673 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :0x7fbffbea50
< 1729963017 443059 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: is the first of those programs position-independent? is the second?
< 1729963019 410296 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`! c int main(void) { printf("%d", 1<sizeof(0<0) ? "C" : "C++"); return 0; }
< 1729963021 101401 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :715833348
< 1729963028 623272 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`! c int main(void) { printf("%s", 1<sizeof(0<0) ? "C" : "C++"); return 0; }
< 1729963030 521696 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :C
< 1729963032 25602 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok
< 1729963033 25077 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well
< 1729963034 182400 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`! c++ int main(void) { printf("%s", 1<sizeof(0<0) ? "C" : "C++"); return 0; }
< 1729963035 24866 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i reccomnd like assembly and on a VM
< 1729963035 506399 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​/hackenv/bin/!: line 4: /hackenv/ibin/c++: No such file or directory
< 1729963035 526368 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1729963040 487023 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :huh
< 1729963061 93499 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't think we ever had a c++ interpreter?
< 1729963083 604356 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :``` /bin/ls -a /hackenv/ibin
< 1729963084 754176 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​. \ .. \ 1l \ 2l \ 7 \ adjust \ asm \ asmbf \ axo \ bch \ befunge \ befunge98 \ bf \ bf16 \ bf32 \ bf8 \ bf_txtgen \ boolfuck \ brachylog \ c \ cintercal \ clcintercal \ cxx \ dimensifuck \ forth \ glass \ glypho \ haskell \ help \ java \ k \ kipple \ lambda \ lazyk \ linguine \ lua \ malbolge \ pbrain \ perl \ qbf \ rail \ rhotor \ sadol \ sceql \ sh \ slashes \ trigger \ udage01 \ underload \ unlambda \ whirl
< 1729963088 28693 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`! cxx int main(void) { printf("%s", 1<sizeof(0<0) ? "C" : "C++"); return 0; }
< 1729963092 7738 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Does not compile.
< 1729963115 719028 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: It's really hard to not say "C doesn't have that concept." I think that we can do all of the stack work outside of straight-line code; the donor has to have a fairly robust runtime that can trampoline into JIT pages, run GC, etc.
< 1729963147 321889 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: sorry, should have asked about the executables, not the programs themselves
< 1729963169 905387 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it's making me realise the "position-independent" is badly defined
< 1729963193 732025 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :some definitions are fine with, e.g., constructing pointers to the stack and doing arithmetic on them
< 1729963222 612416 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think it's missing an #include <iostream.h> but I don't know what syntax the old ego-style interpreter takes
< 1729963226 504993 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah. No, those wouldn't be PIC. If the code's effect relies on PC or any positions of decoded ops, then it's not PIC. That's kind of restrictive, but I think it's workable.
< 1729963233 82272 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and, well, the program does work with arbitrary heap, stack and text addresses – it just prints different values
< 1729963265 641986 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :somehow cussing in russian makes it more obnoxious... because that way I have to put in effort to understand what it's saying
< 1729963277 612436 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fwiw I have been strongly considering a set of conventions which has two stacks – one is used for spills and calls/returns, the other is used for stack-allocated data
< 1729963294 72049 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and a static analysis prevents any pointers to the former stack from leaking out or having any influence on the program
< 1729963305 540249 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Makes me think of Factor TBH.
< 1729963308 672130 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think this would be more secure than what we currently have and probably also more efficient
< 1729963357 465835 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: C++ doesn't need an iostream.h for printf – the compile failure is probably the missing stdio.h
< 1729963378 792364 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`! c++ extern int printf(const char *, ...); int main(void) { printf("%s", 1<sizeof(0<0) ? "C" : "C++"); return 0; }
< 1729963380 677218 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​/hackenv/bin/!: line 4: /hackenv/ibin/c++: No such file or directory
< 1729963387 12126 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`! cxx extern int printf(const char *, ...); int main(void) { printf("%s", 1<sizeof(0<0) ? "C" : "C++"); return 0; }
< 1729963391 285610 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Does not compile.
< 1729963401 20476 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`! cxx int main(void) { return 0; }
< 1729963403 296950 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :No output.
> 1729963411 697685 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07 14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144319&oldid=144286 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+70) 10/* how it works */
< 1729963426 887753 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`run >detect.c echo $'#include <stdio.h>\n''int main(int c, char *v[]) { printf("%s;\n", 1<sizeof(0<0) ? "C" : "C++"); return 0; }'; for l in c c++; do echo trying $l; gcc -Wall -O -o detect -x "$l" detect.c; ./detect; done
< 1729963429 207273 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :trying c \ C; \ trying c++ \ C++;
< 1729963429 318981 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wWwwW
< 1729963440 66437 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`! cxx int main(void) { std::cout << "Hi!\n"; }
< 1729963443 727465 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Does not compile.
< 1729963450 682859 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :im not rlly sure what this means: a) it doesn't have enough paragraph breaks, and b) because there is no underlining
< 1729963455 397950 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, does it include anythgin?
< 1729963460 703363 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what deos this mean in context of program
< 1729963462 536509 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: note that your program won't work if sizeof(int) == 1 – I have programmed for such systems before
< 1729963463 34738 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in 90?
< 1729963477 40170 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: they edited the program after I posted my reply
< 1729963483 593601 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the original just said 00 01 02 03 04 05 06, etc.
< 1729963494 955817 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1729963498 804450 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but like
< 1729963502 794082 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what is the underlining
< 1729963507 680286 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so the whole thing was just one pattern, which didn't replace any bytes
< 1729963512 957649 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :#include <iostream>\n#include <cstdio>\n#include <cstdlib>\n#include <cstring>\nusing namespace std;\nint main(int argc, char **argv) {
< 1729963513 591373 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and what is a paragraph(a newline?)
< 1729963515 745948 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if it said 00 01 02 03 04 05
< 1729963524 323122 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes?
< 1729963525 902494 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :then the 03 would be replaced
< 1729963527 880563 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: yeah, there are more robust ways to distinguish C and C++, but this is good enough for some quick HackEso test
< 1729963528 936827 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`! cxx std::cout << "Hi!\n";
< 1729963532 442895 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and paragraphs are related to newlines
< 1729963532 810680 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hi!
< 1729963542 954802 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :replaced with what?
< 1729963546 392283 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :90
< 1729963562 18968 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :why? is that just defualt
< 1729963565 508681 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and also if so
< 1729963574 50576 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, all the language does is replace bytes with an 0x90 byte
< 1729963574 181604 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what are non underlined things
< 1729963576 798264 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`! cxx std::cout << 1<sizeof(0<0) ? "C" : "C++" << std::endl;
< 1729963579 685535 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Does not compile.
< 1729963580 271373 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(sorry im stupide)
< 1729963587 812289 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the non-underlined bytes are used to help find the correct bytes to replace
< 1729963595 937131 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`! cxx std::cout << (1<sizeof(0<0) ? "C" : "C++") << std::endl;
< 1729963599 559741 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :C++
< 1729963603 483801 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :01 02 03 means "replace 02 if it is in the sequence 01 02 03, but not otherwise"
< 1729963606 493970 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(действительно чертовски stupid)
< 1729963612 996208 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh ok
< 1729963634 311862 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so the program
< 1729963644 380204 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: yeah, but I wanted to run the same program in both C and C++
< 1729963661 904295 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: well, you can't do it that way
< 1729963667 895575 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`! cxx extern int std::printf(const char *, ...); int main(void) { std::printf("%s", 1<sizeof(0<0) ? "C" : "C++"); return 0; }
< 1729963670 746168 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Does not compile.
< 1729963673 551755 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :bleh
< 1729963677 784352 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: right, so I just decided to ignore the old egobot interpreter and call gcc directly above
< 1729963678 995259 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I thought I'd figured it out
< 1729963706 807326 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :should probably have invoked it as g++ though, gcc only works kind of by accident
< 1729963706 872227 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(the stdio.h include imports printf into the non-namespaced namespace, but if you include it as cstdio or write the prototype by hand, it is std::printf)
< 1729963714 520565 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`run >detect.c echo $'#include <stdio.h>\n''int main(int c, char *v[]) { printf("%s;\n", 1<sizeof(0<0) ? "C" : "C++"); return 0; }'; for l in c c++; do echo trying $l; g++ -Wall -O -o detect -x "$l" detect.c; ./detect; done
< 1729963717 551277 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :trying c \ C; \ trying c++ \ C++;
< 1729963754 364442 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait
< 1729963760 623095 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :theres no way to expand memory
< 1729963764 192386 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so its not tc?
< 1729963769 630559 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: The point of 90 is to imagine what happens to a system when parts of it are missing. The hex number 0x90 merely tells an x86 system to do nothing.
< 1729963782 342665 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1729963790 502123 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: anyway, 90 programs are defined as being written in rich-text rather than plain-text, so "paragraph break" rather than "new line" because there is more than one way to represent paragraph breaks in a rich text format
> 1729963796 667593 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Parse this sic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144320&oldid=142772 5* 03Digital Hunter 5* (+37) 10/* Deadfish interpreter */
< 1729963807 33082 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :MediaWiki uses two newlines to represent a paragraph break, but, e.g., HTML uses <p>
< 1729963815 126512 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: We've been talking about "donor" programs, which 90 acts upon. A donor could be designed to try to run every syscall, including the syscalls that request more memory or do I/O. So it's not clear that 90 is not TC by your reasoning.
< 1729963816 784572 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sorry but when writing programs
< 1729963818 98046 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ill
< 1729963826 197464 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :_x_ for underlined x
< 1729963833 475353 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but 90 programs work by modifying some other program to do the work you want
< 1729963848 13282 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: and winword pretends that the paragraph break is a vertical tab character \x0B 
< 1729963849 902725 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :such as doing I/O or expanding memory
< 1729963852 425871 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if memory is infinite
< 1729963858 857240 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and oyu m. ke an error
< 1729963859 41860 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: that is a surprisingly sensible use of vertical tab
< 1729963863 912295 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the error information
< 1729963867 801705 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :would be added to memory?
< 1729963870 454298 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sop it can eb used
< 1729963871 816149 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so
< 1729963879 531161 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can make infinte error
< 1729963930 501568 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: At the level of machine code, there usually *aren't* errors. I don't know what flavors of assembly code you've learned; if you tell us what kind of assembly you know, we can probably speak in those terms.
< 1729963942 246710 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Most assembly has a NOP or do-nothing instruction, after all.
< 1729963988 442894 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :when there is an error in a program's machine code the is reported to the operating system, not to the program itself
< 1729964010 132339 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :operating systems normally react either by telling the program what the problem was, or forcing it to exit, but are not in theory limited to those options
< 1729964019 832676 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :* the error is reported to the operating system
< 1729964031 393159 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I am using vertical tab to mean an escaped newline in a text file format. is that also sensible? the story is that I designed the file format to make it easier to parse, so a newline is always a record separator, and so I must represent escaped strings in a way that never contains a newline, so no backslash-newline or doublequote-newline nonsense
< 1729964078 712819 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: so the standard way to do this is for the record separator to be 0x1E and embedded newlines to just be newlines
< 1729964093 176720 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :your way of doing things is nonstandard but nobody actually follows the standard way anyway
< 1729964103 614016 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I escape some other control characters with \x10 followed by the escaped character xored with 0x20, that way those control characters can be used by the file format itself, and in particular I use \x1F as the end marker for escaped strings
< 1729964113 467663 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(BTW, a very funny counter-example is the ISA for the CAM in the refimpl of [[Cammy]]. The ISA's monoid uses an empty program for no-op and the bytecode isn't saved to disk, so there wasn't a reason to include a NOP.)
< 1729964134 432540 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the main problem (with both mechanisms) is how to escape an escaped newline
< 1729964137 355029 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: that could work, but I want the file to be easily readable with an ordinary text editor, or greppable etc, so using a newline as the record separator is more convenient
< 1729964146 195332 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I thought that might be the reason
< 1729964210 52092 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you might want to consider 0x9A as an escape character, at least for ASCII – that one was never standardised but was intended at one point to be an "output the next octet as ASCII" command
< 1729964212 435 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so the vertical tab \x0B is just a shortcut, the full form \x10\x0D\x10\x0A would work too
< 1729964236 634742 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait, your newlines are actually CRLFs?
< 1729964258 795055 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in the strings that I'm escaping they're mostly crlfs, but those strings can in theory contain lfs too
< 1729964293 787140 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :CRLF has its own codepoint, 0x85
< 1729964312 62592 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although, introducing this after CRLF had become established didn't really do much for compatibility :-D
< 1729964329 64174 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't think I want to use \x9A instead of \x10 because I work with utf-8 encoded things so often
< 1729964368 282347 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've actually been wondering whether, for new formats, it makes the most sense to use control codes that are invalid as UTF-8 leading bytes
< 1729964386 223192 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :e.g. 0xFF is the most sensible "end of string" marker for UTF-8, because it is not ever valid in UTF-8 and doesn't conflict with NUL
< 1729964398 207177 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and has a memorable codepoint that makes some sort of intuitive sense
< 1729964450 721366 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I wouldn't recommend \xFF or \xFE because those can be valid in https://ucsx.org/ , but using \x80 or \x81 as escape characters for the reason that you suggest can make sense
< 1729964466 44602 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: however, I need 
< 1729964479 842337 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :0x80 would make the next most sense, I guess
< 1729964480 453957 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :more than just two escape characters so \x80 and \x81 wouldn't be enough
< 1729964507 515804 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :more than just two control characters that is
< 1729964508 385788 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there are a couple of bytes that are always invalid as UTF-8 in the middle of the range
< 1729964513 650503 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the leading bytes that would correspond to surrogates
< 1729964529 680738 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :are there?
< 1729964549 592464 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although, it is not uncommon to use UTF-8 encodings of surrogates as a way to represent misencoded data in such a way that it round-trips
< 1729964571 139118 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think there are too few surrogates to fill up a full starting character, because they're in the range with three utf-8 octets
< 1729964633 844521 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there are 2**11 surrogates, and each starting octet in the three-octet range covers 2**12 utf-8 values
< 1729964678 282489 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm
< 1729964742 214607 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you're right, it only covers half of 0xEE
< 1729964754 392749 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I was probably thinking of C0 and C1
< 1729964826 885 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so I think \x80 and \x81 are the only ones invalid in extended UTF-8, plus \xFE and \xFF that are invalid if you want to encode 31 bit sized unicode characters, or \xF5 to \xFF () if you want to encode 20.1 bit wide unicode characters which is what modern unicode claims to allow
< 1729964833 262761 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, I mean to ask: is there a UTF-24? given that the top byte of UTF-32 is never useful, it seems like an obvious extension
< 1729964875 509863 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't know. There's an esoteric UTF-18 for systems with 9-bit bytes, defined when nobody was using 9-bit bytes anymore
< 1729964934 727632 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't think there's an UTF-24, because UTF-16 works well enough, and UTF-32 is mostly the in-memory decoded format because CPUs can handle the four-byte integers easily
< 1729964950 681899 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :UTF-16 and UTF-8 are used as the interchange formats everywhere
> 1729964971 713884 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Alivehyperfish/quine14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144321&oldid=144317 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+27) 10
< 1729965008 152612 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Java uses 0xC0 0x80 to represent NUL, so that 0x00 can consistently be end-of-string
< 1729965013 601934 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo i dont rlly know assembly. but like. i played around with c46(thats yher name right?) and it gave me errors when form example line numbers werent there
< 1729965021 917055 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`` ../ibin/c "$(printf 'return atoi(""); }\n\nint atoi(const char *x) { puts(1<sizeof(0<0) ? "C" : "C++")')"
< 1729965024 87749 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :C
< 1729965026 785989 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`` ../ibin/cxx "$(printf 'return atoi(""); }\n\nint atoi(const char *x) { puts(1<sizeof(0<0) ? "C" : "C++")')"
< 1729965030 405844 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :C++
< 1729965039 197044 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(eww :-P)
< 1729965053 917187 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait
< 1729965058 737928 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :puts is in scope for cxx?
< 1729965084 113787 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :how does that work despite the mismatched }
< 1729965090 537239 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I /intended/ to add #include <stdio.h> between those two \n\n
< 1729965100 16992 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I forgot)
< 1729965102 69184 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Okay, no worries. The way that digital logic works doesn't have errors. I like to use light switches to explain this.
< 1729965113 505516 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also why бля do they NOT have errors
< 1729965122 277173 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: the script adds int main(...) { at the front and ;return 0; } at the end
< 1729965135 454886 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: oh, it's *that* old trick
< 1729965136 58819 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Take a room with a lot of light switches and light fixtures. The position of the switches determines which fixtures are on or off.
< 1729965138 953455 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like why not бля add it
< 1729965147 522879 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but yea
< 1729965150 509604 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :continue
< 1729965162 329027 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`! cxx puts(1<sizeof(0<0) ? "C" : "C++")')
< 1729965165 441494 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Does not compile.
< 1729965177 506309 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`! cxx puts(1<sizeof(0<0) ? "C" : "C++")
< 1729965181 263470 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :C++
< 1729965184 927526 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`! c puts(1<sizeof(0<0) ? "C" : "C++")
< 1729965187 41065 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :C
< 1729965208 371120 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :A CPU is wired so that the fixtures go back to the switches. A CPU is merely repeatedly determining its next position based on its current position.
< 1729965215 462801 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's a *state automaton*.
< 1729965223 23305 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1729965231 672540 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: CPUs normally do recognise some possible states as error states, though
< 1729965246 865031 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1729965257 460559 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1729965285 477556 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: No, *humans* label some states as erroring. That's an instance of the mind-projection fallacy.
< 1729965303 995779 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"Java uses 0xC0 0x80 to represent NUL" => er, what is the context for that? it represents other characters in what encoding there, eg. utf-8, utf-16-le, utf-16-be?
< 1729965307 672658 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in fact, they normally have very complicated self-test circuitry because modern chip fabrication is a lot less than 100% reliable, and it's needed to know which of the fabricated CPUs are functional
< 1729965328 186390 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`` ../ibin/cxx "$(printf 'return atoi(""); }\n#include <stdio.h>\nint atoi(const char *x) { printf("%s", 1<sizeof(0<0) ? "C" : "C++")')"
< 1729965331 579495 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :No output.
< 1729965331 794571 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sorry, that's a grumpy take. I'm trying to get wWwwW to realize what a computer is without telling them to go read NAND-to-Tetris.
< 1729965341 214215 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol
< 1729965351 894502 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(it /would/ have worked for bringing the prototype into scope)
< 1729965367 362498 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: well, you can reduce it to "they have an output that was designed to indicate error conditions and which triggers only in error conditions" and argue that it operating is not an error because it's operating as designed
< 1729965388 171503 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well
< 1729965398 182057 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :its what i mean with error
< 1729965414 42752 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but even from that point of view there are actual hardware-level error conditions like short circuits – they're just hard to detect reliably
< 1729965415 130694 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Go read https://github.com/jherskow/nand2tetris/blob/master/nand2tetris%20BOOK.pdf at some point.
< 1729965421 973845 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :k
< 1729965450 678992 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I *do* make such an argument, because otherwise we treat programmer mistakes and e.g. cosmic rays with the same remediation.
< 1729965459 165926 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess one of the defining features of low-level programming is that the consequences of an error become harder to define
< 1729965493 443040 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Computers don't make mistakes. Humans make mistakes. Computers do things *exactly* as told, very fast, with little variation. Think of a sewing machine; looms were the first application of modern digital programmable computers.
< 1729965506 341520 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1729965534 374161 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: the dodgy part is abusing atoi as a function whose prototype is known. What could possibly go wrong? Well, for one, if you don't use the result value, the compiler will discard the call...
< 1729965607 502108 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: I imagine that you're thinking of exceptional conditions. Like ais523 says, we can always designate a CPU state as an "error" or "fault" or "condition" or etc. and the CPU can have special handling for that state.
< 1729965625 477133 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes. thats what im thinking
< 1729965632 193963 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :im more high level
< 1729965633 194461 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so
< 1729965649 732381 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :But all of that has to be explicitly set up. It's not free; there's a five-decade (six-decade?) argument about how to make exceptions not slow down non-exceptional code.
< 1729965662 45124 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1729965727 915404 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :And when you use anything from Rust to Go to C++ to Python, they're all using basically the same solution ("zero-cost exception handling") to provide that feature. When the CPU enters a certain state, the language tells the CPU to *treat it as an error*.
< 1729965749 323983 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes yes
< 1729965772 609244 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :shows me я трахаюсь stupid
< 1729965788 214631 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't like the name zero-cost exception handling, the cost of the exception path is very high
< 1729965790 214963 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Please stop thinking of yourself that way. You're *young* and *learning*.
> 1729965842 238609 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Alivehyperfish/quine14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144322&oldid=144321 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+48) 10Back, category
< 1729965883 41980 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1729965898 263882 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07 14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144323&oldid=144319 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+94) 10Categories
> 1729965970 523200 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Alivehyperfish/Constants14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144324&oldid=144226 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+48) 10Back, category
> 1729966084 536811 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144325&oldid=144312 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (-2) 10/* An I/O Extension to 90 */
< 1729966147 539654 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hrm. Tried to run the current code locally, it fails with "parse error: starting ( without a matching )" for web.salpynx_kalb. Which sounds implausible.
> 1729966174 420468 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07 14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144326&oldid=144323 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+213) 10/* how it works */
< 1729966174 707286 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Actually, let me say something new. Notice how most of the pages on the wiki are shallow? Most programmers don't actually understand computers. They only look at the syntax and have feelings about the syntax.
< 1729966188 114362 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1729966215 26718 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also can you believe this is a program...?:
< 1729966215 526940 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :`ебать, ебать hello hello hello hello hello hello hello hello hello hello hello hello hello hello человек, (ебать), `
< 1729966216 621567 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :​ебать,? No such file or directory
< 1729966218 580928 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's very difficult for people to actually think *beyond* that. Part of why I'm encouraging you to do it is that you have the curiosity and drive required to design interesting languages.
< 1729966230 10015 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1729966233 224315 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i had an idea
< 1729966237 367594 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but i couldnt do it
< 1729966240 254297 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :cuz that reason
< 1729966249 513379 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it was where the esolang changed its interpreter
< 1729966339 765466 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: if it's any help, I tried to make an esolang like that and it ended up as a mess: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Snowflake
< 1729966356 431364 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh
< 1729966361 64298 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :its not the same idea
< 1729966362 775476 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there is still a good idea there, I think, but I probably have the details wrong
< 1729966403 23473 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Let's use some computability theory! In the earlier conversation, I kept saying "Harvard" and "Von Neumann". Do you happen to know what this means?
< 1729966425 239414 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i know harvard
< 1729966442 969375 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that is a schooluniversity/place you learn дерьмо
< 1729966461 27276 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :von neumann was a guy who worked with like math/physiscs i think
< 1729966463 538467 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :didnt he do like
< 1729966467 873424 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :proparralbilty
< 1729966495 177195 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ooh, I think it's a characters-vs-bytes issue, there's a ❤️ in that program source and in Ruby '❤️'.length is 2 (it's U+2764 U+FE0F), but in bytes that takes 6, so it truncates the last 4 bytes (and gets out of sync besides).
< 1729966610 244686 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Those are the right place and person. We say that a machine either allows its code to be changed during runtime, or not. If code can be changed, it's Von Neumann; if code can't be changed, it's Harvard.
< 1729966636 376606 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok vhat
< 1729966650 232841 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :im так чертовски confused lol
< 1729966681 840312 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Inside your computer right now, your CPU is Von Neumann but your GPU and other supporting processors are Harvard. On the wiki, Brainfuck is a great example of a Harvard language, and Snowflake would be Von Neumann.
< 1729966702 885561 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the reaosn im confuse dis
< 1729966709 391080 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :where does the
< 1729966710 393675 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like
< 1729966718 127724 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :comparison comefrom?
< 1729966758 72035 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :. o O ( hello i- and d-cache )
< 1729966773 984007 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: is magic-1 Von Neumann or Harvard? :-P
< 1729966777 131895 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Well, both types of machine can be TC but in different ways. We can use the TCness sometimes to ignore the differences, like when we use x86 (Von Neumann) to emulate Brainfuck (Harvard).
< 1729966795 139017 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes
< 1729966799 761230 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i still odnt understand
< 1729966801 649934 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :why harvard
< 1729966805 28608 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :why von neumann
< 1729966814 192790 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: I think Von Neumann implies not only that the code can be changed at runtime, but that you do so the same way as changing data
< 1729966852 771568 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there are some Harvard architectures which *do* allow for code changes, but have dedicated instructions for the purpose, that use a separate set of addresses
< 1729966873 198872 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Oh, the names themselves? They're historical references to where/who wrote about these machine architectures first.
< 1729966914 646440 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ohok
< 1729966917 358440 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i dont know
< 1729966919 906169 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :history lol
< 1729966922 761791 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :not for copmputers
< 1729966936 262879 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I actually don't know much about Magic-1! I'm ready to learn. From the wiki description, I'd *guess* Von Neumann, but that's gutfeel.
< 1729967055 673368 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523, int-e: Like e.g. ARM, yeah.
< 1729967079 183781 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I used microcontrollers when I was younger
< 1729967081 102844 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: The security-oriented definition might help; Harvard <=> code in ROM.'
< 1729967115 800297 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :they're like computers but often have absurdly small amounts of memory (tens of bytes) and incredibly direct hardware access
< 1729967117 170946 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: so magic-1 uses 16-bit pointers, so to conserve address space there's a separate data and code addres space, and most instructions (other than jumps obviously) read and write the data space. there are some special instructions to read from code space. BUT this is only the user-space view, actually both data space and code space is paged, the underlying memory is the same, and it's possible to map 
< 1729967123 179667 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the same page into both data and code address space.
< 1729967142 942363 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: 16-bit x86 is a bit like that
< 1729967164 727507 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: yeah
< 1729967173 340289 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait
< 1729967183 700280 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i know this is computaitonally impossible i think
< 1729967204 348289 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but
< 1729967212 83634 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what if the program was the interpreter for itself
< 1729967221 44481 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what *could* this look like
< 1729967225 253790 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if it was possible
> 1729967246 108766 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:B jonas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144327&oldid=143961 5* 03B jonas 5* (+14) 10/* Todo */
< 1729967317 431204 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Sure. We have to be able to treat code as data; the interpreter has to be able to look at its own code without running it. It turns out that this is always possible in TC languages, although not easy.
< 1729967322 712484 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: well, you can give an interpreter itself as input, but it's not clear whether that would do anything interesting
< 1729967340 524969 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :...
< 1729967343 32018 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :...
< 1729967344 40693 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: And that leads to quines: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Quine
< 1729967360 70764 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ЧТО ЗА ХРЕНЬ
< 1729967400 503398 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't know very many Russian swear words, I think I've only recognised one so far
< 1729967409 823888 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol
< 1729967412 708732 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it just means
< 1729967417 948570 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :WHAT THE FUCKING HELL
< 1729967424 295248 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i like to swaer in russian
< 1729967426 191885 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :u'i do na.a mi na'e glibau
< 1729967429 432729 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I noticed
< 1729967437 859173 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol
< 1729967449 815973 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i even made it an esolang: https://esolangs.org/wiki/%D0%95%D0%B1%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B5_%D0%B4%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%8C%D0%BC%D0%BE#how_it_works
< 1729967602 980669 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :How do you compute whether a Russian word is verb or noun?
< 1729967621 606697 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :its defined in google translate
> 1729967623 747836 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144328&oldid=144325 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (-34) 10/* An I/O Extension to 90 */
< 1729967672 835704 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :google translate may not be deterministic (although that possibly doesn't matter here?)
< 1729967688 233527 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :IT IS
< 1729967697 286118 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :cuz non deterministic behavour
< 1729967699 508759 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah, I'd like to at least require "languages" to be languages.
< 1729967699 839626 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :on computers
< 1729967703 694742 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: A language is a set of strings.
< 1729967718 93021 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :is bascially impossible unless you rlly try
< 1729967731 543268 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1729967749 460451 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: yes
< 1729967760 26790 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and some rules betweem them
< 1729967844 27073 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Wouldn't you find it a little unfair if I *said* I had a language, but didn't actually reveal what's in the set of strings?
< 1729967858 184403 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i WOULD
< 1729967859 734932 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol
< 1729968023 191267 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: what if I defined a language where I didn't know the set of valid strings?
< 1729968072 305397 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I have a hard time deciding that
< 1729968074 787957 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I guess that that would be okay, as long as you showed a way to compute whether a given string was in the set.
< 1729968103 501199 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: what if the input is bitmap images or GPS trails?
< 1729968111 364269 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :do you just assume they're encoded to strings?
< 1729968122 715147 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or if the input is directory structures
< 1729968127 403140 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: We don't have the source code to Google Translate, nor the data that was used to train its language models, so we can't compute whether a given Russian word is a verb or noun that way.
< 1729968133 375403 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or stacks of everyday objects
< 1729968146 912595 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :BTW I gave you a freebie by assuming that you had a way to tell between English and Russian. I guess you'd use Latin and Cyrillic alphabets?
> 1729968149 945540 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07+++14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144329&oldid=141928 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+26) 10
< 1729968192 925296 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo:first of all russai detection is yes with alphabet, second of all you *could* just transælate every word in english nto russain and then see the word type its given
< 1729968196 377051 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: Ooh, yeah, are those strings? I guess a bitmap image is like a string of pixels. It's a 2D string, not a 1D string, but that's okay! Maybe it was a photograph, in which case it's a string of texels.
< 1729968198 649511 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :OH vs. ОН
> 1729968198 862817 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Filename "xxx" doesn't seem to be a valid filename. Please check if the filename your trying to execute is written correctly14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144330&oldid=143610 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-4) 10/* Python */
< 1729968226 652057 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol
< 1729968227 795961 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :see https://esolangs.org/wiki/Piet for input is images, https://esolangs.org/wiki/Poololoop for input is GPS trails, https://esolangs.org/wiki/Efghij for input is stacks of everyday objects
> 1729968276 173529 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Filename "xxx" doesn't seem to be a valid filename. Please check if the filename your trying to execute is written correctly14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144331&oldid=144330 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-3) 10/* Interpriters */
< 1729968281 647736 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: This might sound strange to somebody your age, but machine-assisted translation didn't exist in the old days, and there are *lots* of words which don't translate cleanly.
< 1729968312 744022 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: We used to work around this problem by hardcoding lists of verbs and nouns. If it wasn't in the list, then it wasn't allowed as a word.
> 1729968313 956887 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Filename "xxx" doesn't seem to be a valid filename. Please check if the filename your trying to execute is written correctly14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144332&oldid=144331 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+3) 10/* Syntax */
< 1729968314 501226 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol
< 1729968315 450268 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION is reminded of https://www.zachtronics.com/kohctpyktop-engineer-of-the-people/ (old flash game, won't work anymore))

< 1729968333 981872 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but the "kohctpyktop" part is memorable :P
< 1729968365 717326 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: right, that's like the pectopaht
< 1729968535 83584 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well
< 1729968538 165361 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what a rabbit hole
< 1729968545 238374 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :just from me liking to swear in russain
< 1729968547 665430 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :machine translation is still unreliable, I think
< 1729968550 93042 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*russian
< 1729968555 436370 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wells are deep too
< 1729968562 341929 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes
< 1729968594 663148 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've actually never been down a rabbit hole
< 1729968603 448718 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol
< 1729968606 25773 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait
< 1729968612 575670 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :literally, rather than figuratively
< 1729968623 899004 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh same
< 1729968625 885953 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and probably haven't been down a well either
< 1729968635 551842 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol
< 1729968651 295713 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`? alice
< 1729968653 147619 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Alice doesn't want to go among mad people.
< 1729968707 215115 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Well, I'm hoping that you'll build an intuition for what machine learning actually is, rather than just the surface experience of using chatbots.
< 1729968716 675498 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yea
< 1729968719 180943 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :alsao
< 1729968723 121236 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i still have a problem
< 1729968727 302270 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :with ppl saying that like
< 1729968750 95329 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"you cant use it to define a part of a prgoram cuz its not always the same"...it is
< 1729968758 832827 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :they are deterministic
< 1729968772 759497 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :As a former Google engineer: no, they aren't.
< 1729968783 2378 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think Google Translate doesn't always translate the same sentence the same way
< 1729968791 522840 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if they are not
< 1729968797 681763 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :then how does the computer do them?
< 1729968805 872606 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :humans don't either, because language is often ambiguous
< 1729968807 993045 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :does it monitor radiation in outer space?
< 1729968822 622331 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :computers can do actual random
< 1729968837 408583 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can always do the steps of the computer if you know the steps
< 1729968839 585656 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :to take
< 1729968844 840190 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: An individual learned relation -- an individual version of a language model -- is deterministic. But Google updates those, like, weekly.
< 1729968855 780176 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :true
> 1729968866 505728 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[071 114]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144333 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+262) 10Created page with "'''1 1''' is just basically just [[ ]] but in binary  == change == all russian is 1 and o for english. thats it. nouns must have 2 added while for verb its a 4 == examples == [[Infinite loop]]:  1, 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 12, (1),"
< 1729968903 942913 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and you may end up connecting to a server with a different set of models, because Google has more than one server and which one you connect to depends on, e.g, how busy they are with other thingd
< 1729968934 528468 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :plus they're improving the translator using feedback
< 1729968951 495472 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(ow, my ears)
< 1729968961 157992 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Or which part of the world you're in; some training data might not be available everywhere, and so the models deployed to those locations will be trained differently.
< 1729968979 50653 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"the output of machine translators set to translate into English" is one of the most useful languages to learn, for someone who knows English already
< 1729968987 512326 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it seems to be somewhat different from the real thing
> 1729969006 709968 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07 14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144334&oldid=144326 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+44) 10
< 1729969008 948556 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well
< 1729969013 331412 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :now it has date location
< 1729969019 247468 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wutrever
< 1729969036 577222 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yep, it's got extra hints in the word choice. Translators' dictionaries will often have multiple synonyms and lists of idioms to help with ambiguous inputs.
< 1729969078 482573 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: That's very helpful, for sure! I do wonder about how we'll do this computation in the future, though. Can I access today's Google Translate next week?
< 1729969102 362317 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :idk
< 1729969123 574079 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well
< 1729969127 767902 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :they have logs right?
< 1729969151 259103 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"and probably haven't been down a well either" => https://commons.wikimedia.org/?curid=43869747
< 1729969209 400726 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :gfod
< 1729969211 537892 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i watched a
< 1729969211 589993 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, that's just great
< 1729969222 627211 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"you got a license for that" meme
< 1729969223 674650 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and now
< 1729969228 748617 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i wan to make that into an esolang
< 1729969272 921633 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :. o O ( chances are that it'll keep you busy for up to 30 minutes and noone will care about it tomorrow )
< 1729969280 375271 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :true
< 1729969319 916565 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :св
< 1729969508 997790 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Okay, I got a good laugh out of that one. Google does *not* share logs with users. Translate is not there for your convenience; it's there to make you dependent on Google and ignore all of the Free Software that can also do machine-assisted translation.
< 1729969530 593409 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fucking kill me
< 1729969551 19102 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*бля убить me
< 1729969617 368886 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1729969619 639067 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: I think it's worth understanding that natlangs and proglangs have different purposes. A natlang is for communicating internal mental states from one human to another. A proglang is for instructing a machine to take certain steps.
< 1729969674 155991 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :a proglang kinda has a natlang buolt in since it also helps people communicate what the code does?
< 1729969810 984738 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :That's a choice that proglang designers make. There are plenty of proglangs that don't help their programmers at all.
< 1729969822 758830 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes
< 1729970008 380812 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :anyway
< 1729970021 471620 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :how could i do
< 1729970022 749905 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the
< 1729970044 82179 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"you have a license for that"(YHALFT) esolagn?
< 1729970046 549699 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*lang
< 1729970136 406315 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
< 1729970149 95216 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1729970365 756286 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Re "logs", translate invocations do appear at myactivity.google.com (...assuming logged-in and WAA-on...), but it only shows you the "query" (what you translated), not the result.
< 1729970403 619611 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: Nice! The results might be in Takeout; not sure.
< 1729970474 285876 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Also took zemhill offline while I'm updating it. Got the current code working locally, and it seems to return plausible results, but also changes quite a few of the scores, so I'm thinking something must've been wrong with the ancient version that was live.
< 1729970478 223314 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Write a language that looks like English legalese but is actually code, perhaps? I don't really want to do this for you thouh.
< 1729970488 280137 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i wanted like
< 1729970498 833106 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the code funcitned like the british piolice in the memes
> 1729970524 387354 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07 14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144335&oldid=144334 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+81) 10/* Examples */
< 1729970527 257197 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :IOW google logs what contents you gave them (accepting the ToS) but not what potentially copyright infringing replies you got back.
< 1729970530 262742 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Makes sense.
< 1729971041 93261 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :how could i do it
< 1729971058 288288 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe some parts of the oprogram must be run to make other possible to run?
< 1729971234 665295 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1729971256 319094 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wWwwW
< 1729971302 723582 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :should i do it?
> 1729971324 545974 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Overload/Turing-completeness proof14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144336&oldid=143953 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+19) 10
< 1729971799 916540 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi JOIN #esolangs HackEso :zemhill
< 1729972024 571148 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Okay, things might be back up and running in BF Joust terms, though it did do quite a difference to the hill: https://zem.fi/tmp/shuffle.png
< 1729972057 585472 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Some of it is from manually rolling back the latest commit to recover david_werecat.atom, but it can't have all been that, because it's now on #33 and wouldn't have been replaced in the first place.
> 1729972182 147647 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Overload/Turing-completeness proof14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144337 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+134) 10Created page with "why have you made this when its already done? ~~~~"
< 1729972209 935615 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Ignore the rank delta column; made it so it updates report.js on startup, so that it's up to date after code changes / bugfixes, but as an unfortunate consequence the initial rank diffs now show the lexicographically last program as "new", since that's the "last challenger" from the initialization.)
> 1729972225 143188 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Overload/Turing-completeness proof14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144338&oldid=144337 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (-134) 10Blanked the page
< 1729972285 335564 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :aaa im so bored
< 1729972301 520000 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I have absolutely no idea whether things were wrong before, or if they're wrong now, and can only apologise for the inconvenience. It is what it is.)
< 1729972323 799929 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/index.html
< 1729972331 847362 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Suppose that I have an arbitrary Boolean circuit. How would I implement it with digital logic gates?
< 1729972358 883529 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what defined a boolean curciut here
< 1729972361 536791 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :could it be
< 1729972362 716705 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like'
< 1729972364 363072 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Er, an arbitrary Boolean *formula*, sorry. How to turn a formula into a circuit?
< 1729972369 790479 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok
< 1729972370 99520 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: isn't a circuit already made out of... ah
< 1729972386 325430 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok
< 1729972390 915528 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :take all the variables
< 1729972409 559519 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait i need to sleep
< 1729972413 917124 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well ill keep it in mind
< 1729972419 506921 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 QUIT :Quit: Client closed
> 1729972465 510612 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:9014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144339&oldid=144328 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (-279) 10/* An I/O Extension to 90 */
< 1729972749 389069 :Everything!~Everythin@static.208.206.21.65.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: leaving
> 1729973011 803967 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:BackFlip14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144340&oldid=144310 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (-24) 10/* Hello, World! */
> 1729973226 710296 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ABCDXYZ14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144341&oldid=131093 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+79) 10/* See also */
< 1729973236 616 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :!zjoust hurtle_turtle (>)*8(>[+++++([-{((+)*112(+.)*32>)*-1}[+[-.--]]>][+[-.--]])%40)*-1
< 1729973236 55300 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: parse error: [..] crossing out of a ({..}) level
< 1729973307 231340 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :!zjoust hurtle_turtle (>)*8(>[+++++([-{((+)*112(+.)*32>)*-1}[+[-.--]]>][+[-.--]])%40][+[-.--]])*-1
< 1729973307 414688 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523.hurtle_turtle: points -25.31, score 5.34, rank 47/47
< 1729973322 963734 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I just wanted something on there to fix the report, I didn't think it'd be very good
< 1729973384 350675 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :!zjoust hurtle_turtle (>)*8(>[(>[+++++([-{((+)*112(+.)*32>)*-1}[+[-.--]]>][+[-.--]])%40][+[-.--]])*-1])*-1
< 1729973384 526293 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523.hurtle_turtle: points -29.67, score 3.98, rank 47/47 (--)
< 1729973394 791027 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :!zjoust hurtle_turtle (>)*7(>[(>[+++++([-{((+)*112(+.)*32>)*-1}[+[-.--]]>][+[-.--]])%40][+[-.--]])*-1])*-1
< 1729973394 928192 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523.hurtle_turtle: points -28.02, score 4.49, rank 47/47 (--)
< 1729973408 280380 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :!zjoust hurtle_turtle (>+)*8(>[+++++([-{((+)*112(+.)*32>)*-1}[+[-.--]]>][+[-.--]])%40][+[-.--]])*-1
< 1729973408 421516 :zemhill!bfjoust@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523.hurtle_turtle: points -28.64, score 4.27, rank 47/47 (--)
> 1729973473 672991 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:10D Deadfish 7 with Time Travel and a Multiverse14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144342&oldid=144191 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+10) 10
> 1729973498 823103 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0710D Deadfish 7 with Time Travel and a Multiverse14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144343&oldid=118291 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+17) 10/* Hello world */
> 1729973712 561073 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Befunge/Constants14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144344&oldid=143127 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (-1) 10/* 20-29 */
> 1729973778 247274 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Befunge/Constants14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144345&oldid=144344 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (-9) 10/* 40-49 */
> 1729973810 691342 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Befunge/Constants14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144346&oldid=144345 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (-5) 10/* 60-69 */
> 1729973812 417652 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Aadenboy14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144347&oldid=142872 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+19) 10style change
> 1729973829 392803 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Aadenboy14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144348&oldid=144347 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+0) 10again
> 1729974145 47999 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Whitespace14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144349&oldid=140914 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+233) 10/* hello, world that works */ new section
> 1729974403 885577 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144350&oldid=139912 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+149) 10/* Truth-machine (kinda) */
< 1729974940 31013 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1729975303 957402 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[071 114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144351&oldid=144333 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+67) 10Categories
< 1729975374 137480 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1729975446 869157 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07+++14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144352&oldid=144329 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+124) 10Categories
< 1729975947 605443 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1729976524 947932 :Everything!~Everythin@178.133.12.70 JOIN #esolangs Everything :Everything
> 1729976718 447675 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07JAGL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144353&oldid=144232 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-3) 10/* Syntax */
> 1729976787 675794 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144354&oldid=144308 5* 03TheThunderGuyS 5* (+559) 10/* delete account */
< 1729976877 43956 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1729977041 742212 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10deleted "[[02User:TheThunderGuyS10]]": requested by the user associated with the userpage
> 1729977110 973045 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/renameuser14]]4 renameuser10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10Ais523 renamed user [[02User:TheThunderGuyS10]] (13 edits) to [[User:AnonymisedFWdd]]: user requested that their username be anonymised
> 1729977141 280118 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ais52314]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144355&oldid=144354 5* 03Ais523 5* (+188) 10/* delete account */ anonymised
> 1729977628 227145 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07JAGL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144356&oldid=144353 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+69) 10/* Syntax */
< 1729977681 940116 :rodgort!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
> 1729977887 42014 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07JAGL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144357&oldid=144356 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+151) 10
< 1729978295 147709 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1729978987 807584 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Although the method I had used for superseding X.509 certificates would probably work, there is some complication involved due to it needing to be a part of the same certificate and contain signatures and hashes.
> 1729979009 762198 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07JAGL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144358&oldid=144357 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+63) 10/* Syntax */
< 1729979139 427317 :rodgort!~rodgort@static.38.6.217.95.clients.your-server.de JOIN #esolangs * :rodgort
> 1729981316 538074 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07JAGL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144359&oldid=144358 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+60) 10/* Syntax */
> 1729981354 101911 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07JAGL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144360&oldid=144359 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+40) 10/* Syntax */
< 1729981580 216931 :Everything!~Everythin@178.133.12.70 QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1729982389 676678 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit
> 1729984162 988932 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:BIT14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144361&oldid=19949 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+202) 10/* XKCD Random Number */ new section
> 1729985511 417761 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Whenever14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144362&oldid=140632 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+2) 10/* Syntax */
> 1729985537 416868 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Whenever14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144363&oldid=144362 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+4) 10/* Hello, world! */
> 1729985596 299575 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Whenever14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144364&oldid=144363 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (-6) 10/* Calculator */
> 1729985805 936205 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07$14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144365&oldid=134220 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (-8) 10/* Interpreter */