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00:40:20 <Lymia> ais523: btw, something I did think of on a BF Joust rework
00:40:48 <Lymia> It may be worth it to have certain numbers be "cheaper" to represent in some way than others. e.g. (+)*16 being "shroter" than (+)*15 or (+)*17
00:41:10 <Lymia> Would help reduce the amount of finetuning, I think, to have a few specific breakpoints for "large/small/etc" on decoy/offset/etc sizes.
00:44:15 <ais523> Lymia: hm, interesting
00:44:41 <Lymia> Decoys especially, combined with offset clears existing.
00:44:54 <Lymia> +1 on an offset or decoy size can make or break a hill.
00:45:01 <ais523> I was planning to just use decimal but I am not convinced I disagree – OTOH it might be hard to do in an intuitive way
00:46:01 <Lymia> The existence of pairs of bots where....
00:46:13 <Lymia> +1/-1 on offset or decoy sizes can just flip that one matchup and lose very little elsewhere is an ow.
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05:57:36 <zzo38> I had also made up a Magic: the Gathering card before that mentioned prime numbers, before the other one mentioned that was made officially. I wrote "Players and permanents with a prime number of counters have shroud."
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08:50:13 <b_jonas> “certain numbers be ‘cheaper’ to represent (+)*16 being ‘shroter’ than (+)*15 or (+)*17” => oh no! it's not US election day, it's still Halloween, and the deadfish are executing their iiss attack!
09:19:26 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ractangle * moved [[Inspect.getmembers(object)]] to [["Python"]]
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16:01:13 <HackEso> The password of the month is release incident pilot.
16:01:39 <int-e> > map sort ["release incident pilot","presidential election"]
16:01:40 <lambdabot> [" acdeeeeiiillnnoprstt"," acdeeeeiiillnnoprstt"]
16:03:31 <int-e> (https://wordsmith.org/anagram/ is still pretty cool)
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16:58:31 <wib_jonas> int-e: you know the command you gave doesn't actually compare them, and they're very hard to compare by eye, right?
16:58:50 <int-e> wib_jonas: well, they're not equal
17:00:16 <int-e> anyway, yes, I know
17:03:17 <int-e> wib_jonas: but also https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/ooh1Aif8eija.png :P
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20:45:11 <ais523> b_jonas: huh, using Deadfish notation to represent numbers would indeed be a reasonable way to make some numbers cheaper than others
20:46:52 <shachaf> int-e: Are people electing a new president of #esolangs?
20:47:27 <ais523> i ii iii iis iisi iisii iisiii iiisd iiis iiisi iiisii iiisiii iissddd iissdd iissd iiss
20:48:04 <ais523> (have we reminded all the Americans here (who are eligible to vote and haven't yet done so in this election) to go and vote yet?)
20:49:33 <ais523> alternatively, binary floating-point could work: 1p0 1p1 1.1p1 1p2 1.01p2 1.1p2 1.11p2 1p3 etc.
20:50:26 <shachaf> ais523: Any recommendations on what to vote for?
20:51:01 <shachaf> (I already dropped off my ballot yesterday.)
20:52:28 <ais523> shachaf: at least in the UK, Trump is incredibly unpopular, so I imagine most Brits would vote against him by voting for Harris
20:53:01 <ais523> we had a Trump supporter as Prime Minister recently, she got thrown out by her own party after only a few weeks
20:54:03 <ais523> but Trump was also very unpopular even before then
20:54:58 <shachaf> Well, my presidential vote is completely meaningless in California.
20:55:22 <ais523> indeed – it would be a huge upset if Harris fell below 50% there, and every vote above 50% doesn't matter
20:55:39 <ais523> some of the House seats in California might potentially matter
20:56:00 <ais523> but I don't have the list of individual seats in California memorised
20:57:25 <ais523> (looking it up on the Internet says that CA-45 and CA-22 are the two closest House districts in the country)
20:57:31 <esolangs> [[Eodermdrome]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144951&oldid=142355 * Digital Hunter * (+6) /* Example programs */ updated link
20:58:41 <shachaf> My district, CA-12, is presumably on the other end of whatever list that is.
20:59:10 <shachaf> "With a Cook Partisan Voter Index rating of D+40, the 12th district is the most Democratic district in both California and the United States, giving nearly 90% of its vote to Democrats in both the 2016 and 2020 presidential elections.[1][2]"
20:59:17 <b_jonas> ais523: the problem is that it also lets jousters very quickly zero a flag that starts at 128
21:00:23 <ais523> shachaf: yes, a) CA-12 isn't remotely close, and b) both candidates say that they'll support the Democrats if they win, so it would require one of them to be lying about that to affect who controls the House post-election
21:00:35 <ais523> b_jonas: I don't see that as a problem, turtles being fast is good for the game
21:00:57 <ais523> if they weren't fast there'd be no point in using the strategy, it has a lot of disadvantages
21:02:57 <shachaf> ais523: One of the candidates is going for a direct democracy thing:
21:03:02 <shachaf> «"We are putting the power back into the people by allowing the voters of the East Bay to vote on every bill that crosses my desk in congress. Meaning that as long as 51% of the district votes for a bill that passes my desk, I will support that even if I don't personally agreed with the particular decision," said Dr. Tran.»
21:03:56 <shachaf> Of course de facto that's still the same situation.
21:04:02 <ais523> yes, just with extra steps
21:04:16 <shachaf> Also she's presumably not going to win.
21:05:07 <shachaf> Maybe I should run for congress.
21:06:47 <ais523> unfortunately I wouldn't be able to vote for you, due to being British
21:07:52 <shachaf> Hmm, I could move to Britland and stand for Parliament.
21:15:30 <b_jonas> ais523: you said earlier that you don't want to decrease the cell modulus, currently 256, by much, because it would be too quick to clear flags. with a deadfish square operation, you can achieve a clear in 9 turns if undisturbed. isn't that too fast?
21:17:00 <ais523> b_jonas: oh, these operations don't affect the cells on the tape
21:17:04 <ais523> they're just to control the internal counter
21:17:17 <b_jonas> ok, and how can you use the internal counter?
21:18:10 <ais523> it's the only way to do, e.g., "subtract 1 from this cell 128 times" without taking up a huge amount of code space
21:18:44 <ais523> by using the counter to count the iterations of a 128-iteration loop
21:18:49 <b_jonas> in that case I hope you get more than one counter
21:19:17 <b_jonas> like either three counters, or two counters and a way to quickly compare distance from your own flag to a constant
21:19:56 <ais523> it's one counter + compare distance to marker + compare distance to own flag; the marker is a pointer to a tape cell that you can move to you current cell in zero time
21:20:51 <ais523> this has enough power to implement most of the interesting programs on the champions page, but low enough power that programs still behave somewhat predictably
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21:21:25 <b_jonas> do you get at least an extra boolean or two that you can clear, set, and test?
21:21:50 <ais523> no but you have an instruction pointer – boolean flags is an interesting idea though
21:22:17 <ais523> I figured that repeating programs a couple of times in code space would be OK for programs that needed to do that
21:22:26 <ais523> adding booleans would allow the code space to be made smaller, though
21:23:50 <b_jonas> booleans or counters with a small limit, for things that you want to repeat a few times
21:24:29 <b_jonas> like trying to make sure you see a cell cleared multiple times before you move past it
21:25:41 <ais523> oh, antishudder loops nearly always need a different clear algorithm anyway
21:26:35 <ais523> the shudders are designed to beat normal clear algorithms, so if you zero a cell and see it nonzero on the next cycle, usually you switch to a less normal algorithm for zeroing it the second time
21:26:53 <b_jonas> or perhaps a single-level subroutine call that saves your position but not the orientation (velocity) so you can use the orientation for four different returns
21:28:54 <b_jonas> assuming this still uses a funge/piet code space
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22:27:59 <int-e> shachaf: I went with an anagram for a reason :P
22:29:38 <ais523> I think you have the word order wrong, "pilot release incident" actually makes sense as a noun phrase
22:29:57 <ais523> (and of course, the word order doesn't matter for an anagram)
22:30:37 <int-e> I wanted a software context, not an avian one.
22:30:54 <int-e> you are right that that makes more sense
22:31:41 <int-e> I'm sure there are better anagrams anyway. But by The Rules this is the one we're stuck with for now :P
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