00:04:36 I got my tagless-final version of Brainfuck working: https://github.com/rpypkgs/rpypkgs/blob/main/bf/bf.py 00:05:36 Final encodings of optimizers are tricky because the abstract domain has to be written down explicitly. It turns out that encoding the semantics as a monoid was also important because it removed the question of whether an individual instruction is a sequence of actions. 00:06:45 I'm contemplating in #pypy whether I should write a blog post comparing it to other interpreters. I think it's got pretty good times: 2.5s for mandel.b and 0.1s for bench.b when JIT is enabled. 00:11:43 [[Algebraic Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145056&oldid=143889 * Corbin * (+167) Add link to an example interpreter. 00:37:12 [[Sharp flat]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145057&oldid=112349 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+36) /* Example Programs */ 00:54:51 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:00:11 [[BF (category)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145058 * Corbin * (+2616) Lay out a category. 01:00:35 But Is It Brainfuck? 01:04:46 [[BF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145059&oldid=131222 * Corbin * (-38) Three's a crowd; clean up and make disambiguation parens explicit. 01:07:56 Okay, done for now. Dinner before more edits. Main driving question: if you can't poly-time reduce it to something resembling original Brainfuck, then is it really a Brainfuck equivalent? Similarly, if you can't embed original Brainfuck in it in poly time, is it really a Brainfuck derivative? 01:17:45 -!- ais523 has joined. 01:35:48 -!- amby has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:46:55 [[User:Salpynx/Going to Zagreb to buy a pony]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145060 * Salpynx * (+4645) I asked ChatGPT to describe this language after a bit of priming, it has provided some other helpful suggestions in line with ideas I already had. Perhaps this is more of a collaboration than pure AI nonsense. Some of it is mine. WIP. 01:48:41 [[User:Salpynx/Going to Zagreb to buy a pony]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145061&oldid=145060 * Salpynx * (+22) heading levels 02:40:31 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:40:46 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 03:33:29 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:36:24 I had mentione before that sometimes the cursor blinking stops working in some windows temporarily, usually soon after the computer starts, but this time it is doing it now instead. (It is affecting most of the windows (including this one) but not all of them.) 04:22:11 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:30:29 -!- zzo38 has joined. 05:34:05 [[The nutjob from wellington]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145062 * Gggfr * (+1192) Created page with "{{WIP}} '''the nutjob from wellington''' is an [[esolang]] created by [[User:yayimhere]] to do two things: * complete the trilogy of the _ from _. * look like [[The Genius from Kiev]] and have triggers like [[The Amnesiac From Minsk]] but be different i 05:34:25 [[The nutjob from wellington]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145063&oldid=145062 * Gggfr * (+2) /* semantics and syntax */ 05:58:00 [[MEMORYLEEK]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145064&oldid=145030 * Aadenboy * (+29) update influenced list, use distinguish template 05:59:21 Is it possible with GCC with -rdynamic but to only export the functions in one of the .o files into dynamic libraries but not all of the .o files? 06:07:11 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:07:32 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 06:30:13 -!- sdr123 has joined. 06:53:36 [[StackMachine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145065&oldid=145055 * ZCX islptng * (+29) someone forgot an important category 07:00:37 -!- sdr123 has quit (Quit: Client closed). 07:32:41 [[The nutjob from wellington]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145066&oldid=145063 * Yayimhere * (+1539) 07:40:08 [[Mmr]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145067&oldid=144999 * Iddi01 * (+30136) Fix obvious bug in interpreter that make "Remember: x" commands not work on entry additions 07:44:07 -!- wWwwW has joined. 07:44:29 i wanted to share this crime agianst humanity lol: https://esolangs.org/wiki/The_nutjob_from_wellington 07:44:29 what do you guys think 07:44:30 and is anything unclear? if so tell me 07:49:56 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 07:51:06 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:51:19 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 07:55:22 also nutjob means sphycopath 08:15:55 [[4 esolang + Python polyglot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145068&oldid=117526 * Ractangle * (-10) /* External Resources */ 08:25:18 hello? 08:58:42 -!- tromp has joined. 09:35:10 [['Python' is not recognized]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145069&oldid=144998 * Ractangle * (+74) /* Syntax */ 09:39:59 [['Python' is not recognized]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145070&oldid=145069 * Ractangle * (-79) /* Unfinished Truth-machine */ 09:42:29 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:52:13 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:25:00 [['Python' is not recognized]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145071&oldid=145070 * Ractangle * (-33) /* Truth-machine */ 10:25:13 ? 10:25:34 [[List of quines]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145072&oldid=144932 * Ractangle * (-45) /* 'Python' is not recognized */ 10:25:46 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:31:57 -!- wWwwW30 has joined. 10:34:41 -!- wWwwW has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:37:31 -!- wWwwW30 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:53:32 [[User:PrySigneToFry/Sandbox/My Rate to the user that I know]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145073&oldid=142197 * PrySigneToFry * (+50) 10:55:51 [[User talk:ZCX islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145074&oldid=145036 * PrySigneToFry * (+691) 10:58:02 [[User talk:ZCX islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145075&oldid=145074 * PrySigneToFry * (+144) 10:59:07 [[User:PrySigneToFry/Sandbox/My Rate to the user that I know]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145076&oldid=145073 * PrySigneToFry * (+9) 11:02:09 [[User talk:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145077&oldid=144150 * PrySigneToFry * (+116) 11:03:10 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 11:05:45 [[HZ3funge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145078&oldid=135779 * PrySigneToFry * (+171) 11:07:28 [[BubbleLang/Operators]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145079&oldid=143772 * PrySigneToFry * (+176) 11:10:14 [[AH'TALIQUAE ENGLISH/Extension]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145080&oldid=143279 * PrySigneToFry * (+425) 11:11:25 [[User talk:Tommyaweosme]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145081&oldid=145077 * Ais523 * (-116) Reverted edit by [[Special:Contributions/PrySigneToFry|PrySigneToFry]] ([[User talk:PrySigneToFry|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:40:36 [[AH'TALIQUAE ENGLISH/Extension]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145082&oldid=145080 * PrySigneToFry * (+129) 12:05:59 -!- amby has joined. 13:54:46 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 14:48:53 -!- wWwwW has joined. 15:00:06 [[Polyglot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145083&oldid=134885 * MihaiEso * (+0) 15:07:51 [[Collab]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145084&oldid=137057 * Qawtykit * (+318) added two commands 15:08:13 plz gimme feedback 15:40:37 [[6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145085&oldid=145037 * Ractangle * (+111) 15:41:24 [[6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145086&oldid=145085 * Ractangle * (+10) /* Online interpreters */ 15:46:03 [[Python But WORST!!]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145087 * MihaiEso * (+893) Created page with "Python but WORST!! is designed by Mihai Popa. It's just like [[Python But WORST]], but if the program '''''doesn't''''' have a 15:47:45 [[User:MihaiEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145088&oldid=144021 * MihaiEso * (+74) 15:48:17 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145089&oldid=145026 * MihaiEso * (+34) 15:48:22 plz 15:49:20 [[Python but WORST!!]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145090 * MihaiEso * (+32) Redirected page to [[Python But WORST!!]] 15:50:06 [[Python But WORST!!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145091&oldid=145087 * MihaiEso * (-5) 15:51:18 [[Python But WORST!!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145092&oldid=145091 * MihaiEso * (-50) 15:53:04 [[Python But WORST]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145093&oldid=145041 * MihaiEso * (+22) /* See also */ 15:53:11 [[Python But WORST]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145094&oldid=145093 * MihaiEso * (+1) /* See also */ 16:04:15 [[Everyonelang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145095&oldid=130110 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-163) 16:07:02 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:07:13 [[Category:Generated by AI]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145096&oldid=139415 * MihaiEso * (+43) 16:07:22 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 16:36:02 [[-5 bytes ;)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145097&oldid=144547 * Ractangle * (+82) /* Implementation */ 16:37:49 [[-5 bytes ;)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145098&oldid=145097 * Ractangle * (+162) /* Implementation */ 17:11:56 wWwwW: I'm not sure how it's related to the other two similarly-named languages. 17:41:35 wWwwW: BTW I hacked out a stub for deciding whether a syntax is a Brainfuck equivalent/derivative; LMK what you think: https://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_(category) 17:46:58 [[Where is my esolang?]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145099 * ZCX islptng * (+537) Created page with "yet another esolang by islptng i'm too busy to write detail here 
 where is my [name]? # define variable  I've forgot where I put [name] for the [number][st/nd/rd/th] time! # name <- number  let me think about it. after I used my [name] the last tim
17:49:18  korvo: moslty its(as the names jokes shows) as long away from both langs, but still have derived concept while still beiong nothing like them:]
17:52:54  korvo: Hmm. How would you capture algebraically that +>+<->-< is a no-op? Not that people are likely to write that kind of code.
17:55:59  [[Algebraic Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145100&oldid=145056 * Int-e * (+0) pick a nit
17:57:57  (My own toy BF intermediate language is  type Offset = Integer, data BF = Add Offset Integer | Input Ofs | Output Ofs | Loop Offset [BF] | ... where ... captures higher level building blocks that may arise from recognizing certain idioms. The Offset in loops is for accounting for things like [>] that shift the pointer on each iteration.)
17:58:42  [[Where is my esolang?]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145101&oldid=145099 * ZCX islptng * (+492) 
17:59:40  And the point of tracking offsets is that all Add instructions commute with one another.
18:00:15  int-e: Good example. The monoid isn't finitely generated, so there will always be new rules that could be added to an optimizer.
18:00:32  ISTR that this is a fundamental feature of TC systems, but I have no idea who said it or how they phrased it.
18:00:49  bur korvo other thsn thta detail what do you thinkj?
18:01:03  Oh sure, you run into Rice' theorem sooner or later.
18:01:24  wWwwW: I'm not a fan, but I'm also not a fan of the source languages. They don't really feel rewarding to me.
18:02:21  lol
18:02:29  Hmm, what's the better possessive? Rice' or Rice's?
18:02:37  Amnesiac From Minsk starts out as Minsky-style counter machines. No thank you! The only time I've appreciated those is in the proof that Braid is TC.
18:03:05  Yeah Minsky machines are a great target for proving things TC.
18:03:08  Ha, I've never seen "Rice'" before, but it makes sense phonetically.
18:03:15  And an awful target for "real" programming.
18:04:29  It's a bit like combinatory logic.
18:04:53  true
18:04:55  You generally don't want to write Minsky machines directly. You want to compile to them.
18:05:01  it isnt rlly but like kinda is
18:05:03  ehwutever
18:05:53  Heck, Brainfuck with bounded tape and unbounded cells is a better Minsky machine.
18:06:05  In terms of programmability.
18:07:29  true
18:07:33  There's something psychological about it. Numberphile is famous for using lots of sheets of paper; I wonder how folks would feel if they instead wrote every theorem and statement with a unique ideogram? That's how counter machines feel to me.
18:08:02  if you jumped in BF it would just be a minsky machine with infinite registers and a pointer
18:08:12  korvo: lol thats funny
18:08:57  korvo: I don't know what it is tbh. There's something cozy about loops, despite the struggle to make conditionals from them.
18:09:27  This may be Stockholm syndrome. I've spent quite a bit of time of my life actually writing Brainfuck code.
18:10:27  (And very little time constructing Minsky machines.)
18:11:00  I'd rather write Brainfuck than LC, CL, or TMs. I think that it's because Brainfuck offers a little more potential for disciplined composition of subprograms.
18:11:45  I guess writing LC or CL isn't too bad given a macro system. And Cammy is basically unbearable without macros, even if I think of a hive as more of an IDE than a ball of macros.
18:11:54  int-e: techno stockholm syndrome......... nice lol
18:13:07  korvo: Oh but LC is actually nice in that it enables abstraction (in the form of higher order functions).
18:13:47  The only way I can write CL code is by starting with LC code and then doing abstraction elimination.
18:14:23  I can write CL directly but I'd prefer a Cammy-like categorical basis instead. Less C, more B.
18:14:56  LC would be nice if it were typed. I can write STLC all day. I hate Elm and OCaml but I can use them.
18:15:14  korvo: it's worth noting that tromp's BLC source language actually has `let` syntactic sugar. Oh and support for simple recursion so you don't have to write your own fixed point combinator every time.
18:16:07  So pure LC really isn't *that* nice for humans... having bindings (with name and definition in one place) is a huge help.
18:16:26  lol
18:16:28  it is for me
18:17:09  int-e: Yeah, I suppose that you're right. Apples-to-apples, I don't want to write TMs with anything less than (Not-Quite-)Laconic. Ditto with Wang tilings or Post correspondence blocks.
18:17:55  wWwwW: Have you found Boehm-Berarducci encoding yet? (Did I actually spell their names right this time?)
18:18:03  wahts dat
18:18:26  also i hate non LC lambdas. they are stupid in my opiion
18:18:28  You know Church encoding for natural numbers? That can be generalized to any algebraic data type.
18:18:28  [[Where is my esolang?]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145102&oldid=145101 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+96) Categories
18:18:42  korvo: i had that idea for ages
18:19:33  wWwwW: what do you mean, Lagrange multipliers work great.
18:19:41  ...
18:19:42  ...
18:19:49  LAMBDA CALCULUS!!!!!
18:19:50  lol
18:20:06  you talked about non-LC lambdas
18:20:07  idek what that is
18:20:10  [[The nutjob from wellington]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145103&oldid=145066 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+111) Categories
18:20:19  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrange_multiplier -- usually called lambda.
18:20:26  wWwwW: Lambda-abstraction is the same everywhere; any language which calls something else "lambda" can be comfortably named and shamed.
18:20:51  [[The nutjob from wellington]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145104&oldid=145103 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-1) Fix category
18:20:51  int-e that means using lambdas in non lambda calculus just feel out of place for the rest of the lang. unless its haskell ofc
18:21:05  There's also that weird thing that AWS calls "lambda".
18:21:30  wWwwW: And ultimately it's a Greek letter and that language would be much poorer without it.
18:22:20  true lol
18:23:16  wWwwW: It's not historically accurate, but think of LC as a calculus with *only* lambda-abstractions. At the time, a calculus always had applications and variables, so LC has three forms: application, variable lookup, and lambda-abstraction.
18:24:34  Anyway, what languages were you thinking of? Languages like Python, Java, or C++ really do have lambda-abstraction, although it fits within their object models.
18:25:29  Oh yeah this was the last time of me constructing Minksy machines "manually" (it really bootstraps higher-level abstractions like loops immediately to minimize the number of operations that have to be specified manually): https://devel.isa-afp.org/browser_info/current/AFP/Minsky_Machines/Minsky.html
18:26:24  korvo: Python especially(cuz firts of all ugly, second of all looks weird, and third of all messy ahhh) but bacially everywhere. idk
18:26:26  ...I found a typo
18:27:29  ...this is why I should never look at things I did years ago.
18:27:29  wWwwW: So, three complaints about syntax? Don't get me wrong, readability matters and Python is sensitive to that critique, but I don't think that that's a good basis for a complaint.
18:27:56  its not a complaiint its more of a personal disliking
18:28:30  Partially because Python's `lambda` still does what it's supposed to do, and partially because a readability-first approach eventually degrades into useless goo. My preferred example is Quorum, a lackluster middling language useful only as an example of what not to do.
18:28:47  lol
18:29:04  wWwwW: I think you've overlooked what lambda-abstraction *is*. A lambda is a *hole* in an expression where another expression can go, and when we apply a lambda, we *fill* that hole.
18:30:18  `x(y)(z)`...
18:30:18  `x y z`...
18:30:19  `f(x y) f(z)` how i wish it was
18:30:22  f(x? No such file or directory
18:30:22  x(y)(z)`...? No such file or directory
18:30:22  x? No such file or directory
18:30:32  lol
18:33:55  or `f(x) f(y) f(z)` for that matter
18:38:02  what about you korvo? how would you like x applied to y applied to z in lambda style to llok like?
18:38:14  [[6]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145105&oldid=145086 * Ractangle * (+0) /* Online interpreters */
18:43:36  [[The nutjob from wellington]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145106&oldid=145104 * Yayimhere * (+11) /* semantics and syntax */
18:45:53  [[The nutjob from wellington]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145107&oldid=145106 * Yayimhere * (+62) /* semantics and syntax */
18:46:07  [[The nutjob from wellington]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145108&oldid=145107 * Yayimhere * (+4) /* infinite loop */
18:47:43  shoould we have a infinte loop list?
18:47:50  maybe ill make one
18:50:46  Eh I'm still happy with the economy of that Minsky machine formalization. (It establishes that all recursively enumerable sets can be recognized by Minsky machines. It's just the Minsky machine part, the definition of recursively enumerable = computably enumerable sets is elsewhere.)
18:51:35  ?
18:52:00  (that's enough of me admiring my past self)
18:54:23  wahtwahtwahtwaht
18:54:26  im very confused
18:54:30  eh wutever
18:56:10  wWwwW: I literally don't care what it looks like. I care about how easy it is to machine-parse and how easy it is to enter on a keyboard.
18:56:40  But I am *tired* of caring about S-expressions vs JSON vs YAML vs etc.
18:58:16  lol
18:58:27  (looks can come to typing)
18:58:32  "what lambda-abstraction is" -- LC and CL both formalize substitution. CL is arguably simpler (it's a first-order term rewriting system), but also more awkward to use.
19:04:54  I sometimes wish Bob Harper's ABTs were more popular. An abstract binding tree (ABT) is an abstract syntax tree (AST) with generic lambda-abstraction. ABTs are ASTs with (typed) holes.
19:05:56  wWwwW: FWIW I'm a former professional pianist and my fingers are physically tired. I use an ergonomic keyboard, I stretch constantly, and I want languages that are shorter so that I don't have to type as much.
19:06:50  Cammy's canonical form is S-expressions because (pr t not) is shorter and easier than ["pr", "t", "not"]. Otherwise I'd use JSON, and a predecessor of Cammy was implemented in jq.
19:07:02  esolangs: What is the jq language?
19:08:59  ok
19:09:37  b_jonas: this is starting to intimidate me: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/Mintech.png (Mindustry)
19:09:42  (here you talk about pianist as a job right? i find a pianist anybody who can play stuff and make good stuff on piano personally)
19:11:49  wWwwW: Yes, I was paid money to play jazz piano in restaurants and clubs. It's not lucrative.
19:12:28  korvo: [500 Internal Server Error] generating response: context deadline exceeded [#6267f9299c89c]
19:12:50  esolangs: err what?
19:13:06  oh.
19:13:27 * korvo outprompts the bot
19:13:39  int-e: "err what?" is a common phrase used in programming to indicate an error or unexpected behavior. It's a way to ask "What's wrong?" or "What went wrong?" when encountering an error message or unexpected output. It's a casual way to express confusion and seek clarification about the error.
19:13:58  hahahaha
19:15:07  is this real?
19:15:10  esolangs: What's an example of hard-to-parse JSON?
19:15:17  if not we need to make it
19:15:43  korvo: idk. i dont actually look much into JSON. for all i know its just a bunch of dictionaries
19:15:47  korvo: There's no single "hard-to-parse JSON" example, as it depends on the specific criteria for "hard". However, here's a common issue: **Nested objects with deeply nested arrays:** ```json { "nested_object": { "inner_array": [ { "nested_object": { "inner_array": [ "item" ] } }, "item" ] } } ``` This structure can be difficult to parse due to the depth...
19:15:47  of nesting.
19:16:13  fuck how did i misread esolangs as wWwwW????
19:16:33  > fix show
19:16:35   "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\...
19:17:13  ...
19:17:14  ...
19:17:15  ...
19:17:16  ...
19:17:20  WAHTTF
19:17:24  err what
19:17:33  > fix error
19:17:34   "*Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Ex...
19:17:44 * int-e shrugs
19:17:45  esolangs: how did you come up with "err what"
19:17:51  wWwwW: one "..." is more than enough
19:17:57  sure is
19:18:00  wWwwW: I asked
19:18:05  Ooh, to the tune of "Sound of Silence". ♪ It's not hard to parse JSON ♩ but here's a hint to help along ♪ when nesting objects very deep ♩ the stack pointer you should always keep ♩
19:18:26  lol
19:18:39  i just made a fricking train noise with my mouth
19:18:42  nice:]
19:18:44  ♪ for the nesting! can overflow your stack ♪ with a lack ♩ of allocated space, due to the depth … of nesting ♩
19:19:20  wWwwW: The prompt doesn't provide information about how "err what" came about. It's likely a humorous or nonsensical phrase, perhaps referencing the absurdity of esoteric programming languages and their often cryptic error messages.
19:19:20  korvo: I honestly think that there is no hard to parse JSON value. The trouble is mostly character encodings.
19:19:54  hey korvo as a pianist whats the most annoying thing you have to do?
19:20:04  int-e: I was hoping that the response would trip up at least one component somewhere along the line. But yeah, I've parsed JSON like four or five times, and it's not hard given a parser library.
19:20:08  And why is \u limited to 4 hex digits. :P
19:20:27  wWwwW: Hip-hop on a piano or harpsichord.
19:20:37  [[TxeT]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145109&oldid=144976 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+1) /* Python */
19:20:38  And a recursive descent parser will also do just fine.
19:21:18  [[TxeT]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145110&oldid=145109 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+31) /* Examples */
19:21:20  What else is weird... JavaScript has NaN but JSON doesn't.
19:21:35  And it's annoying that you have to encode 64 bit integers as strings.
19:21:43  korvo: personally as a /producer/(take that lightly i make music on the internet for no reason for no money and its prop terrible) i say breakcore beats. but umm i can see why
19:22:39  But those are shortcomings of the format and its origin rather than difficulties with parsing.
19:23:22  wWwwW: Gigging musicians have to be able to improvise when people ask. I can fake most styles, but hip-hop's a common request that I can't really work with. Sometimes I wish I were a drummer.
19:24:23   -- argh, specify a maximum width *please*
19:24:31  (from https://www.json.org/json-en.html )
19:25:08  korvo: trust me. you wont want to be a drummer. as my dad says(as a drummer), "if i started with drums i wouldve never played the piano". e explained its cuz its hard mto do both
19:25:10  idk lol
19:25:17  (100% is particularly obnoxious because scaling doesn't work. Gotta make the viewport thinner instead.)
19:25:27  int-e: It might reassure you that Data-E, the subset of E which eventually became JSON, *did* distinguish between `double` and `int` types with syntax. They were mixed to appeal to EMCAScript-first folks.
19:26:33  wWwwW: I can play most percussion instruments just fine. A professional drummer is much better at it than me, that's all. I did something called "drumline" that's fairly popular for folks your age in the USA.
19:26:57  drumline?
19:27:02  Your dad might know what I mean when I say "I used to play quints, which are like quads with a gonk in the middle."
19:27:02  wahts that
19:27:23  also note im not amarican
19:27:28  *ame
19:27:35  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenor_drum#Multi_tenor_drums_(United_States_and_Latin_America)
19:28:25  also do you know what a tonewheel organ is? sounds rlly cool
19:28:41  the only ooold instrument i know that shounds cool
19:28:50  *sounds
19:28:51  I've not seen one in person, but I've heard of them.
19:29:28  its like house + air + organ basically
19:29:29  lol
19:29:51  back in like idk i think the 00's(?) they used thi as a base in house music
19:29:53  *bass
19:29:59  I specialize in electric pianos, including the Hammond sound, which is modeled after tonewheels. I also play the Rhodes sound.
19:31:27  nice
19:36:06  [[User talk:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145111&oldid=144768 * Ractangle * (+218) /* What the hell is HQ9t? */ new section
19:36:13  [[User talk:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145112&oldid=145111 * Ractangle * (+161) /* What the hell is HQ9t? */
19:37:02  [[User talk:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145113&oldid=145112 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+425) /* What the hell is HQ9t? */
19:37:12  [[User talk:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145114&oldid=145113 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+4) /* What the hell is HQ9t? */
19:37:19  [[User talk:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145115&oldid=145114 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+2) /* What the hell is HQ9t? */
19:37:26  [[User talk:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145116&oldid=145115 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+0) /* What the hell is HQ9t? */
19:38:33  [[User talk:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145117&oldid=145116 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+84) /* What the hell is HQ9t? */
19:38:47  [[User talk:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145118&oldid=145117 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-29) /* What the hell is HQ9t? */
19:39:47  Ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuu-
19:39:53  😉
19:42:03  lol
19:42:39  > length "Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff"
19:42:41   67
19:42:53  nice
19:43:04  [[User talk:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145119&oldid=145118 * Ractangle * (+188) /* What the hell is HQ9t? */
19:43:19  [[User talk:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145120&oldid=145119 * Ractangle * (+20) /* What the hell is HQ9t? */
19:50:39 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
19:53:40  whats the craziest esolang?
19:54:07 -!- Sgeo has joined.
19:57:04  [[256]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145121&oldid=144588 * Ractangle * (+13) /* 256.js */
20:00:33  [[User:B jonas]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145122&oldid=144516 * B jonas * (+12) /* Games that the esolangs community plays */
20:00:58  [[User:B jonas]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145123&oldid=145122 * B jonas * (+34) /* Games that the esolangs community plays */
20:01:12  [[User:B jonas]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145124&oldid=145123 * B jonas * (+0) /* Games that the esolangs community plays */
20:03:03 -!- wWwwW has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
20:11:35  int-e: for Mindustry, I'm still using the savefile that I started with Mindustry v6, so it has a lot of existing sectors that I visited before upgrading to v7 and so keep the old map. I'm scared of starting over without all the fancy tools and my existing setups.
20:36:25 -!- wWwwW has joined.
20:38:44  [[The nutjob from wellington]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145125&oldid=145108 * Yayimhere * (+1) /* semantics and syntax */
20:38:58  [[The nutjob from wellington]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145126&oldid=145125 * Yayimhere * (+0) /* infinite loop */
20:39:33  [[The nutjob from wellington]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145127&oldid=145126 * Yayimhere * (+30) /* semantics and syntax */
20:40:52  [[The nutjob from wellington]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145128&oldid=145127 * Yayimhere * (+41) /* infinite loop */
20:49:51 -!- ais523 has joined.
21:11:52 -!- Guest31 has joined.
21:12:36 -!- Guest31 has quit (Client Quit).
21:25:33 -!- Everything has joined.
21:32:08 -!- zzo38 has joined.
21:35:45  About JSON, I think it has some problems and the ones you mentioned are some of them. I think its use of Unicode is also a problem, and that it doesn't store binary data directly, doesn't have optional trailing commas, comments, etc. But there are other possibilities, e.g. a subset of PostScript, or a binary format.
21:38:39   Hmm, what's the better possessive? Rice' or Rice's? the "prescriptive grammar" rule is to use ' only on words that a) end with an "s" sound and b) are plural; "Rice" ends with the correct sound but isn't plural, so it's "Rice's"
21:39:18  this does lead to weird-sounding possessives sometimes on singular words that happen to end in an s, such as "grass's" (as opposed to "grasses'")
21:43:50   And why is \u limited to 4 hex digits. :P ← some languages use \x with 2 digits, \u with 4, \U with 8; others use a delimiter, along the lines of \u{12345}, then they can use the same prefix for hex character literals of any length
21:44:23  (I had been making my own text-based format which can be converted to DER. However, ASN.1 doesn't have a key/vlue list type, but I made up ASN.1X which adds a few types including a key/value list type, so ASN.1X has all of the types necessary for JSON.)
21:44:50  About those, in some programming languages/formats, \x means one byte and \u means a Unicode character so the meaning is not always the same anyways.
21:46:47  (My own format allows \x in most string types; Unicode strings can also have \u with four hex digits, and \U with any number of hex digits followed by a semicolon, e.g. UTF8:(\U12345;) for a UTF-8 string with the single character U+12345.)
21:47:55  Also, JavaScript does have a integer type now, although it did not have a integer type at the time that JSON was invented.
22:02:51 -!- lynndotpy has quit (Quit: bye bye).
22:03:44 -!- lynndotpy has joined.
22:12:08  [[User talk:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145129&oldid=145120 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+243) /* What the hell is HQ9t? */
22:54:21 -!- zzo38 has quit (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by zzo38_))).
22:54:38 -!- zzo38 has joined.
22:55:08 -!- Everything has quit (Quit: leaving).
23:20:16 -!- baldibacak has joined.
23:21:06  b_jonas: Yeah it's a slow game if you capture each base and then try to maximize resource gain from that base and learn how all the new tech fits together.
23:42:37  ais523: Haskell allows any length without the {}. You can use the zero-length \& to terminate the escape sequence if it's ambiguous.
23:47:37  Yes, although I think it might be better to not have ambiguous escape sequences like that