00:06:59 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:08:25 -!- Everything has quit (Quit: leaving). 00:19:50 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:20:38 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 00:34:39 [[User:Kevidryon2]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145867&oldid=110339 * Kevidryon2 * (+105) 01:34:34 -!- Hooloovoo has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:20:09 -!- Hooloovoo has joined. 02:23:22 [[Amo gus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145868&oldid=135843 * Qawtykit * (+61) added DUP implementation 02:30:31 -!- amby has quit (Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement). 02:37:21 -!- sam__ has joined. 02:37:44 -!- sam__ has changed nick to Guest139. 04:11:59 -!- Guest139 has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:43:55 [[User:CreeperBomb/Idea]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145869 * CreeperBomb * (+7359) Created page with "== Description == All operators have a default arity, which can be changed with placing a number of dots before it - one dot per extra input. Multiple dots can be shortened to ".#" for a numeric digit "#" (note: 0 means 10 dots, 1 means 11, and 2 means 04:48:21 [[Amo gus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145870&oldid=145868 * MihaiEso * (+129) 04:49:33 [[Amo gus]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145871&oldid=145870 * MihaiEso * (+0) 05:37:14 [[User:CreeperBomb/Idea]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145872&oldid=145869 * CreeperBomb * (+587) 05:54:21 [[User:CreeperBomb/Idea]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145873&oldid=145872 * CreeperBomb * (+324) /* Example programs */ 05:56:44 [[User:CreeperBomb/Idea]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145874&oldid=145873 * CreeperBomb * (+106) /* Print null */ 06:30:04 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:31:58 . o O ( progress bar, n. -- a device that bars you from progressing ) 07:39:14 [[Comment]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145875&oldid=145853 * Ractangle * (-56) /* Snakel */ 07:40:04 [[Comment]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145876&oldid=145875 * Ractangle * (-93) /* Snakel */ 07:58:21 -!- tromp has joined. 08:02:16 -!- craigo has joined. 08:18:51 [[User:MihaiEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145877&oldid=145232 * MihaiEso * (+62) /* Others */ 08:22:47 [[Translated ORK/Mihai Again16]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145878&oldid=144114 * MihaiEso * (+41) 08:22:59 [[Translated ORK/None1 again9]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145879&oldid=144197 * MihaiEso * (+42) 08:23:08 [[Translated ORK/None1 again9]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145880&oldid=145879 * MihaiEso * (+1) 08:24:41 [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145881&oldid=145318 * MihaiEso * (+92) /* Horribly translated variants */ 08:24:54 [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145882&oldid=145881 * MihaiEso * (+48) /* Horribly translated variants */ 08:25:22 [[Translated ORK/Mihai Again17]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145883&oldid=144282 * MihaiEso * (+42) 08:25:31 [[Translated ORK/Mihai Again17]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145884&oldid=145883 * MihaiEso * (+1) 08:28:10 [[Translated ORK/Mihai Again18]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145885 * MihaiEso * (+2389) Created page with "Future comes by, waiting for worse results! ~~~~ 1. Take that [[Translated ORK/Mihai Again17|shitty sh*t]] 
 Do you know how to repeat the action of hitting the big car by the family? Is the ability to write about the lack of desire in everyo
08:45:51  [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145886&oldid=145855 * Iddi01 * (+595) Separate the unicode by lines to be clearer
08:50:31  [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145887&oldid=145886 * Iddi01 * (-549) Wait, redirect messed up transclusion
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09:22:48  [[Talk:Translated ORK/Mihai Again18]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145888 * Iddi01 * (+515) Created page with "I suggest merging all these into one single page ([[Translated ORK]]) and the other sequence into [[Translated ZhongWen]] because they aren't essentially different and aren't actually languages, and so don't deserve individual pages, especially w
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09:53:43  [[Esolang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145889&oldid=8535 * Win7HE * (+30) Removed redirect to [[Esoteric programming language]]
09:54:30  [[Esolang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145890&oldid=145889 * Win7HE * (-9) 
09:54:40  [[Esolang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145891&oldid=145890 * Win7HE * (+1) Redirected page to [[Esoteric programming language]]
09:55:33  [[Eso]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145892&oldid=145849 * Win7HE * (+22) 
09:55:43  [[Esolang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145893&oldid=145891 * Win7HE * (-22) 
10:23:57  Hi
10:34:25  [[TW'sLE!!!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145894&oldid=142044 * Iddi01 * (+1240) The code is not working on latest versions, add a weak one that do to compensate
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10:55:26  [[Snakel]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145895&oldid=145831 * Ractangle * (+2) /* Syntax */
11:08:22  [[EchoLang (None1)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145896 * None1 * (+1797) Created page with "'''EchoLang''' is an esolang prompted by [[User:None1]] and invented by Cursor AI: ==Commands== + : Increment the current memory cell. - : Decrement the current memory cell. > : Move the memory pointer to the right. < : Move the memory pointer to the left. . : Ou
11:24:05  [[User talk:ZCX islptng]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145897&oldid=145678 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+229) /* Pronunciation */ new section) (----
11:28:20  [[User talk:ZCX islptng]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145898&oldid=145897 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+127) /* Pronunciation */
11:40:41  [[Talk:Empty Program]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145899 * None1 * (+38) Created page with "This is the same as [[NOP]], isn't it."
11:42:52  [[Talk:Empty Program]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145900&oldid=145899 * None1 * (+235) 
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12:02:28  hello'
12:02:42  (yes this is wWwwW wutever)'
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12:06:44  wadda thibnj of tis?: https://esolangs.org/wiki/%C3%89%C5%A1%C5%93%C5%82%C3%A3%C3%B1g
12:09:06  it's unclear what the program does, or what the program even is
12:09:27  ??'
12:09:32  e.g. are the rules always the same or are they specified by the program? and if they're specified by the program, how?
12:09:49  im very confused
12:09:59  (also i forgot to specify syntax lol)'
12:10:45  right, yes, that might be the confusion – it isn't clear from the article what influence the program has on the execution of the language, explaining the syntax might help with that
12:11:02  ok
12:11:12  well
12:11:26  the program defines what chars have computation applied
12:12:10  does that make sense?
12:13:22  it doesn't have enough detail
12:13:44  yea it sint syntax but like
12:13:47  ok
12:14:17  x:y creates a rule where x is the char and y is the number. then on those cycles that are specified x changes based on that
12:17:06  OK, I think I understand now, although it isn't explained that well
12:17:28  YEA  im bad at that''
12:17:33  srry for caps
12:17:45  it is sub-TC because it's a sort of neighbour-independent substitution system, which can't usefully store arbitrary amounts of data (they can expand memory infinitely but not make use of that when reading it)
12:18:23  ? it can make use of what its readin with the prime number rule i think
12:18:25  right?
12:19:09  cuz it reads the data and stores that data in itself
12:21:18  so the problem is you're making lots of copies of the base string, but those can't interact with each other in any awy
12:21:45  OH yea
12:21:47  well'
12:21:51  actually theres a change
12:21:59  if its not a single char but  string
12:22:09  cuz then it isnt independent anymore
12:22:26  right, that seems like an easy fix
12:22:50  you could have both on same page
12:22:56  like on 2C
12:23:06  [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145901&oldid=145812 * Ractangle * (-18) /* A */
12:24:52  well when i get home ill do that'
12:25:04  do you think that becomes TC?
12:25:14  (and no you cant just say that its just /// now)
12:25:25  I'm not sure, but if it does it's probably in a boring way that avoids most of the functionality of the language
12:25:55  yea
12:26:00  but thats for most langs
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12:51:50  [[Special:Log/move]] move_redir  * Ractangle *  moved [[Dumbfuck]] to [[Dumbf*ck]] over redirect
12:51:51  [[Special:Log/move]] move_redir  * Ractangle *  moved [[Talk:Dumbfuck]] to [[Talk:Dumbf*ck]] over redirect
12:51:51  [[Special:Log/delete]] delete_redir  * Ractangle *  Ractangle deleted redirect [[Dumbf*ck]] by overwriting: Deleted to make way for move from "[[Dumbfuck]]"
12:51:51  [[Special:Log/delete]] delete_redir  * Ractangle *  Ractangle deleted redirect [[Talk:Dumbf*ck]] by overwriting: Deleted to make way for move from "[[Talk:Dumbfuck]]"
12:56:24  [[g]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145906&oldid=145857 * Yayimhere * (+486) /* semantics */
12:57:57  [[ACCUMULATOR]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145907&oldid=129490 * UndoneStudios * (+117) 
12:58:20  [[ACCUMULATOR]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145908&oldid=145907 * UndoneStudios * (+29) 
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12:58:58  hey ais i changed it
13:12:06  *ais523
13:13:33  well, it's a language now – I'm not sure it'll inspire anyone to actually use it, the rules are somewhat arbitrary
13:13:41  yea
13:13:49  it *is* just a keyboard lol
13:16:39  sadly im to stupid to proov it TC
13:16:46  unless i. make 10 esolangs to proove it
13:18:24  or maybe even there i cant
13:18:29  im already stuck lol
13:21:38  I think that most of my languages aim to be TC in unusual ways – this is in many cases a side effect of being designed to be powerful for proving things TC
13:21:52  this does too
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13:47:51  [[Translated ORK/PSTF Again-Viginte]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145909 * PrySigneToFry * (+2323) Created page with "Translated ORK/Mihai Again18|HFE D  H$0H? H? H'E D  H$0H? H? HE D  H?{?  H? tH?r?  tH?p?  tHu H?Q?  H?Q?  H?Q?  H?Q?  H?8 H(?, 8H?? HtAH?? HtH?? /G H?  H? L? E3?? G H?X7 H8+ ..."
13:49:54  [[Translated ORK/Mihai Again18]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145910&oldid=145885 * PrySigneToFry * (+144) 
13:50:54  [[Joke language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145911&oldid=145882 * PrySigneToFry * (+125) 
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14:26:42  [[User talk:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145912&oldid=145744 * ZCX islptng * (+109) 
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15:36:50  hey ais523 i wanted to proove TC and i wanted to know if you had any esolangs that i could try to use?
15:37:20  wWwwW: what do you mean by "use" here – are you looking for languages to prove TCness of, or languages to prove TCness with?
15:37:56  with
15:38:03  frick i need to be better at words lol
15:38:29  normally I use The Waterfall Model for anything that's capable of representing enough unbounded counters
15:38:42  ooh yea
15:38:47  that makes sense to use
15:38:49  or tag variants (e.g. Echo Tag or Genera Tag) for anything that has a queue
15:38:57  k
15:39:32  there are some more special-purpose TC-proving languages, like Delta Relay for languages which are bad at "resetting" their control flow, but they aren't useful as often
15:39:48  yea
15:43:50  what would you reccomnd me tho?
15:43:57  (other than waterfall)
15:45:38  cyclic tag, minsky machines
15:45:50  k
15:46:22  I've made many "slightly easier to implement than cyclic tag" languages, but most languages are able to implement the original, it's only when that doesn't work that you need to reach for a more powerful option
15:48:35  also can you help me. im pretty bad at TC'ness prooving
15:49:29  i know how to ignore the odd rule
15:51:30  normally it is easier to compile than interpret – think about how you would compile from the TC-proving language to the language you're trying to prove
15:51:41  yea
15:51:44  if there isn't an obvious way to do it, move onto a different TC-proving language
15:51:51  k
15:52:11  cant compile also mean like translate?
15:52:11  like
15:52:24  underload was translated into umm
15:52:31  unlambda
15:53:38  a simple translation is a sort of compiler
15:53:46  yea
15:53:49  thank god
15:54:15  or, well, it's a correspondence between languages which can trivially be used as the basis of a compiler
15:54:25  yea
15:57:25  [[g]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145913&oldid=145906 * Yayimhere * (-80) /* semantics(g Normal) */
16:01:00  [[g]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145914&oldid=145913 * Yayimhere * (+87) /* semantics(g Normal) */
16:02:24  [[g]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145915&oldid=145914 * Yayimhere * (-1) /* Compl class */
16:03:42  [[g]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145916&oldid=145915 * Yayimhere * (+36) /* g bd */
16:05:00  [[g]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145917&oldid=145916 * Yayimhere * (-20) /* syntax */
16:05:45  well ill do some research then
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16:10:42  [[User:Yayimhere/Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145918&oldid=144472 * Yayimhere * (-5367) /* golfing lang */
16:10:58  [[User:Yayimhere/Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145919&oldid=145918 * Yayimhere * (-502) /* APL x BASIC x MM */
16:44:06  [[g]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145920&oldid=145917 * Yayimhere * (+89) /* syntax */
16:47:42  [[User:Yayimhere/Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145921&oldid=145919 * Yayimhere * (+122) /* research */
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16:52:48  [[User:Yayimhere/Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145922&oldid=145921 * Yayimhere * (+23) /* research */
16:53:31  hey ais523 how many counters does waterfall need
16:53:42  7
16:53:51  or, well, maybe it can do with less, but 7's the minimum we've proven
16:53:55  frickin dmammit
16:54:21  although if you're going down to that few counters, the numbers get very large
16:54:38  this is partly because the waterfall model uses counters both as control flow and as data
16:54:58  if you have separate control flow, you have a counter machine, and those work with only two counters
16:55:18  im already so stuck
16:56:04  [[User:Yayimhere/Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145923&oldid=145922 * Yayimhere * (+103) /* research */
16:58:59  help meeee plz
16:59:40  the way the string keeps expanding makes TCness proofs difficult
16:59:50  yea
17:00:01  there are at least two old languages like that which are still unsolved, although people gave up trying fairly quickly
17:00:19  https://esolangs.org/wiki/Xigxag is fun, it was widely suspected not to be TC but that's hard to prove
17:00:21  well i wont
17:00:29  i hve read xigxag!
17:03:11  i wil NEVER GIVE UP
17:09:28  ok
17:09:33  so if we have these counters
17:10:10  every prim iteration the counters nothhing happens
17:11:59  [[g]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145924&oldid=145920 * Yayimhere * (+140) /* syntax */
17:15:14  [[User:Yayimhere/Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145925&oldid=145923 * Yayimhere * (+165) /* research */
17:18:08  well
17:18:29  know i know how to ignore different rules and how to make counters trhat jump to some value n whenever they hit 1
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17:25:25  [[User:Yayimhere/Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145926&oldid=145925 * Yayimhere * (+1) /* research */
17:25:50  hey ais523(if i need to stop pinging me just tell me) have i actually made progres?^^
17:27:08  I'm too tired to tell, I should go to bed (but I'm not sure if I'll be able to tell even when more awake)
17:28:10  k
17:28:16  go to bed then
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17:37:17  [[g]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145927&oldid=145924 * Yayimhere * (+21) /* syntax */
17:42:11  [[Eso]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145928&oldid=145892 * Ractangle * (-22) 
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20:35:49  that reminds me, we'll still have to try to work out if we can get a turing-completness proof for Imprecision
20:39:58  fungot, is clothespin really a synonym for clothes peg, the fastner used to fix clothes onto a drying line? because that sounds rather silly
20:39:58  b_jonas: a breadtangle!! i wanta tell you you're a carrier! to generate html
21:05:09  [[Special:Log/move]] move  * Ractangle *  moved [[2.210*]] to [[Xtrod]]
21:10:57  [[Xtrod]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145931&oldid=145929 * Ractangle * (+333) 
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22:06:20  [[Xtrod]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145932&oldid=145931 * Ractangle * (-76) 
22:11:58  Good Night.
22:12:54  [[Xtrod]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145933&oldid=145932 * Ractangle * (+395) /* Instruction minimise */
22:13:35  [[Xtrod]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145934&oldid=145933 * Ractangle * (+13) /* Instruction minimise */
22:15:39  [[Xtrod]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145935&oldid=145934 * Ractangle * (+74) /* See also */
22:16:30  [[Xtrod]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145936&oldid=145935 * Ractangle * (+60) /* Instruction minimise */
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22:29:12  [[BF instruction minimalization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145937&oldid=129803 * Ractangle * (+535) /* Step 4: Finished */
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22:33:26  ais523: I don't know if I linked it here, but I wrote a guest post for the PyPy/RPython blog last week: https://pypy.org/posts/2024/11/guest-post-final-encoding-in-rpython.html
22:34:17  You had mentioned being surprised at the BF monoid, so I figured you'd appreciate the punchline: the monoid makes it possible to optimize a final encoding with nice algebraic reasoning.
22:35:11 * korvo déjà vu
22:47:43  [[BF instruction minimalization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145938&oldid=145937 * Ractangle * (+49) /* Step 2:Merge the input and output */
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23:47:13  [[Talk:Nythop]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145939&oldid=145429 * Luxedo * (+825) Response about copyright