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00:34:20 <esolangs> [[Windmill]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146022&oldid=145962 * RainbowDash * (+96) /* Computational class */ Quotes mashed together from people on the discord
00:36:17 <esolangs> [[PushDupAddSub]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146023&oldid=145991 * Kaveh Yousefi * (-2) Amended the addition and infinite counter example programs as a consequence of my interpreter's rectification. I thank the GitHub user MaksimKayumov for their advice.
00:44:40 <Sgeo> "This repo doesn't
00:44:40 <Sgeo> solve Goldbach's conjecture
00:44:40 <Sgeo> help solve Goldbach's conjecture, because understanding 25-state turing machine is more difficult than Goldbach's conjecture"
00:44:44 <Sgeo> https://github.com/lengyijun/goldbach_tm/blob/main/README.md
00:48:15 <esolangs> [[Windmill]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146024&oldid=146022 * RainbowDash * (+951) update
00:49:25 <esolangs> [[Windmill]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146025&oldid=146024 * RainbowDash * (-398) /* JS implementation */
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01:11:42 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146026&oldid=145421 * ZCX islptng * (+31) /* pifricted? */ new section
01:14:30 <esolangs> [[User talk:Translated ORK]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146027&oldid=145984 * ZCX islptng * (+153) /* What is 'Basinite' ? */ new section
01:25:47 <esolangs> [[User:Translated ORK]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=146028 * ZCX islptng * (+28)
01:48:12 <esolangs> [[Windmill]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146029&oldid=146025 * RainbowDash * (+44) /* Defined operators */
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02:26:37 <esolangs> [[Rnadom]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146030&oldid=134413 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+55) /* polyglot */
02:27:09 <esolangs> [[Rnadom]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146031&oldid=146030 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+2) /* polyglot */
02:29:13 <esolangs> [[Rnadom]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146032&oldid=146031 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+27) /* commands */
02:29:57 <esolangs> [[Rnadom]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146033&oldid=146032 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+25) /* commands */
02:32:54 <esolangs> [[Rnadom]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146034&oldid=146033 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+35) /* programs */
02:33:07 <esolangs> [[Rnadom]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146035&oldid=146034 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-123) /* Read Input forever */
02:33:13 <esolangs> [[Rnadom]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146036&oldid=146035 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+125) /* polyglot */
02:40:00 <korvo> Sgeo: Ooh, nice find, thanks.
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03:10:27 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite * RainbowDash * uploaded a new version of "[[File:Windmill logo.png]]"
03:11:16 <esolangs> [[Windmill]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146038&oldid=146029 * RainbowDash * (+1)
03:15:18 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146039&oldid=145519 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+16) /* Cmds */
03:24:23 <esolangs> [[User talk:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146040&oldid=145690 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+218) /* Polyglot */ new section
04:43:12 <esolangs> [[Talk:Memorial language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146041&oldid=141600 * Yayimhere * (+214)
04:44:33 <esolangs> [[Talk:Memorial language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146042&oldid=146041 * Yayimhere * (+64)
04:49:01 <esolangs> [[User talk:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146043&oldid=145147 * Yayimhere * (+366) /* Warsides */
04:57:19 <esolangs> [[User talk:Translated ORK]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146044&oldid=146027 * Translated ORK * (+240)
04:58:38 <esolangs> [[User:Translated ORK]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146045&oldid=146028 * ZCX islptng * (-10) Removed redirect to [[Translated ORK]]
04:59:37 <esolangs> [[User talk:ZCX islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146046&oldid=145980 * Translated ORK * (+263) /* Pronunciation */
05:03:03 <esolangs> [[User talk:Translated ORK]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146047&oldid=146044 * ZCX islptng * (+152)
05:04:53 <esolangs> [[User talk:ZCX islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146048&oldid=146046 * Translated ORK * (+531) /* Pronunciation */
05:08:53 <esolangs> [[User talk:Translated ORK]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146049&oldid=146047 * Translated ORK * (+208)
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05:20:24 <esolangs> [[User talk:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146050&oldid=146043 * Yayimhere * (+412) /* Warsides */
05:20:37 <esolangs> [[User talk:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146051&oldid=146050 * Yayimhere * (-412) /* on the topic of the qoute and formatting of "aLMOsT EvEryONe" */
05:20:55 <esolangs> [[User talk:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146052&oldid=146051 * Yayimhere * (+41) /* on the topic of the qoute and formatting of "aLMOsT EvEryONe" */
05:46:05 <esolangs> [[User:ZCX islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146053&oldid=145255 * ZCX islptng * (+1157)
06:46:51 <esolangs> [[User:ZCX islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146054&oldid=146053 * Translated ORK * (+16)
07:31:06 <esolangs> [[CharLang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146055&oldid=146019 * 5anz * (+139)
07:33:52 <esolangs> [[User talk:Translated ORK]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146056&oldid=146049 * Iddi01 * (+364) this is getting more and more confusing
08:13:02 <esolangs> [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/One per generation]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146057&oldid=145957 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+101) Rule recently found by "islptng"
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11:01:23 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146058&oldid=146026 * PrySigneToFry * (+825)
11:13:01 <esolangs> [[Translated ORK/PSTF Again-Duoviginte]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=146059 * PrySigneToFry * (+1320) Created page with "ORK: Translated ORK/Mihai Again20|<span style='font-family:Unifont;'>k|Y.wx=>:?Q7Bs*4Y[78?KN:#L F????T)oZ@5D??4fyk?&rlw4|?wCOE????%??R?!??/f{fq??3H?b@JC? :l?..."
11:54:06 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146060&oldid=146058 * Ractangle * (+197) /* */
11:54:45 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146061&oldid=146060 * Ractangle * (+1) /* */
11:58:07 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146062&oldid=146006 * Ractangle * (+21)
12:05:04 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146063&oldid=146061 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (-198) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/146061|146061]] by [[Special:Contributions/Ractangle|Ractangle]] ([[User talk:Ractangle|talk]])
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12:56:21 <esolangs> [[8ial]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146064&oldid=142545 * Ractangle * (+0) /* Truth-machine */
12:56:46 <esolangs> [[Truth-machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146065&oldid=145777 * Ractangle * (+0) /* 8ial */
12:57:59 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146066&oldid=146063 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+284) /* ? */
13:15:44 <esolangs> [[User talk:ZCX islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146067&oldid=146048 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+206) /* Pronunciation */
13:16:48 <esolangs> [[User talk:ZCX islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146068&oldid=146067 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+245) /* Pronunciation */
13:17:21 <esolangs> [[Talk:Segmentation Fault]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=146069 * 5anz * (+84) Created page with "eror. ~~~~5anz"
13:17:46 <esolangs> [[Talk:Segmentation Fault]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146070&oldid=146069 * 5anz * (+2)
13:18:49 <esolangs> [[User talk:ZCX islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146071&oldid=146068 * Translated ORK * (+101)
13:28:20 <esolangs> [[User talk:ZCX islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146072&oldid=146071 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (-2807) Now I must get the admin to ban me.) (----
13:30:31 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146073&oldid=145969 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+293) /* I got hacked again */ new section
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14:18:31 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146074&oldid=146073 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+250) /* I got hacked again */
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15:53:54 <wWwwW> hey i have a "problem"
15:54:31 <wWwwW> a lot of general purpos questions are put in ais523 's page and i would guess he finds tht annoying
15:54:43 <wWwwW> so we should on wiki have an easy to accses place to ask this
15:54:50 <wWwwW> like wikipedias teahouse
16:00:31 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146075&oldid=145484 * * (+25)
16:01:17 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146076&oldid=146075 * Yayimhere * (+98)
16:12:21 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146077&oldid=146076 * * (+95)
16:14:03 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146078&oldid=146077 * Yayimhere * (+157)
16:16:20 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146079&oldid=143105 * * (+631)
16:17:09 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146080&oldid=146078 * * (+197)
16:17:32 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146081&oldid=146079 * Yayimhere * (+81)
16:17:35 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146082&oldid=146080 * * (+9)
16:17:45 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146083&oldid=146081 * Yayimhere * (-630)
16:18:53 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146084&oldid=146082 * * (+26)
16:19:02 <korvo> wWwwW: That's the supplicatory model, and it's not a healthy way to run a commmunity.
16:19:02 <esolangs> [[O()]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146085&oldid=144280 * Yayimhere * (+205) /* other commands */
16:19:13 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146086&oldid=146062 * Ractangle * (+308)
16:19:40 <wWwwW> ? im kinda confused. its unhealthy to have a main discussion place on the wiki?
16:21:14 <korvo> wWwwW: Well, first, *yes*, wikis aren't chat forums. But more importantly, yes, it's unhealthy for a community to primarily get answers to questions by begging an authority for a response.
16:21:37 <korvo> Moreover, it sounds like you think that somebody else has a problem, and that's not the same thing as having a problem yourself.
16:21:49 <wWwwW> yea. and thats why we should have *somewhere else* to do it?
16:22:10 <korvo> You're currently connected to the official IRC chat channel for the wiki.
16:22:24 <wWwwW> yes yes but not all ppl can be for whatever
16:22:43 <esolangs> [[O()]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146087&oldid=146085 * * (+106)
16:23:14 <esolangs> [[O()]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146088&oldid=146087 * * (-8)
16:24:08 <korvo> That's already a problem; Mediawiki isn't fully accessible, particularly for the visually impaired, and we don't have a style guide, let alone a style guide which promotes accessibility.
16:24:10 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146089&oldid=146084 * Ractangle * (+297)
16:25:01 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146090&oldid=146089 * * (-84)
16:25:53 <wWwwW> i mean for IRC. does IRC have visually impaired accses?
16:26:07 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146091&oldid=146090 * Ractangle * (+249) /* the charecter looks like x riding a skateboard when viewed on a phone */ new section
16:26:27 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146092&oldid=146091 * Ractangle * (-81)
16:26:42 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146093&oldid=146092 * Ractangle * (-8)
16:27:05 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146094&oldid=146093 * Ractangle * (+1)
16:27:46 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146095&oldid=146094 * Yayimhere * (+130)
16:28:00 <korvo> Yes, and I know several blind folks on IRC. (I'm technically not blind, although sometimes it sure feels like it.)
16:28:33 <korvo> IRC may be simple and bare, but that's precisely what makes it flexible and reliable.
16:28:54 <wWwwW> but theres still ppl who cantr for other reasons. but wutever. bu8t then atleast we should point out that the talk page of ais isnt the main place for discussion
16:29:01 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146096&oldid=146095 * * (+47)
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16:29:11 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146097&oldid=146096 * * (-1)
16:29:23 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146098&oldid=146097 * * (+1)
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16:29:40 <korvo> wWwwW: They already know that. Talk pages of admins are generally busy places because admins are the only people who can carry out certain tasks.
16:29:55 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146099&oldid=146098 * Yayimhere * (+30)
16:30:01 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146100&oldid=146099 * Ractangle * (+166)
16:30:18 <korvo> (Also, no, I'm not biting the strawman that some folks prefer Discord to IRC. When Discord publishes an open protocol and explains why they ban people, then maybe they can be considered as an inferior alternative.)
16:30:31 <wWwwW> wait whut. but theres a lot of stuff like "are you allowed to be under 13 here"
16:31:00 <korvo> You're not allowed to be under 13 on the USA's portion of the Internet unless you fill out a bunch of paperwork.
16:31:09 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146101&oldid=146100 * * (+78)
16:31:24 <korvo> Since 1998, children are banned by default for their own safety: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Online_Privacy_Protection_Act
16:31:28 <wWwwW> yea yea but it should be like here or IRC right?
16:31:45 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146102&oldid=146101 * * (+1)
16:32:19 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146103&oldid=146102 * Yayimhere * (+128)
16:32:24 <korvo> I'm not sure how Libera Chat (this IRC network's operator) is incorporated, but it's likely that they can't allow children to connect.
16:32:49 <wWwwW> shouldnt ppl ask that like here
16:34:06 <korvo> Honestly, it's not a sincere question; anybody asking it is already trying to work around a policy that they don't fully understand.
16:34:15 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146104&oldid=146103 * Ractangle * (+235)
16:34:24 <wWwwW> yea yea but its just and example
16:35:10 <fizzie> Libera Chat is a Swedish nonprofit, for the record.
16:35:15 <korvo> Normally I'd say "be bold", following https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Be_bold but I don't think our contributors lack for boldness.
16:36:20 <korvo> fizzie: Ah, excellent, thanks.
16:39:00 <esolangs> [[Esolasagna]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=146105 * * (+547) Created page with "Esolasagna is an esolang based entirely on Garfield quotes. == Syntax == The code is divided into days, starting on any day, and halting on Monday. All commands must be in uppercase. == Commands == {| class="wikitable" |+ All Commands |- | EAT YOUR HEART OUT, (person). || Se
16:39:41 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146106&oldid=146104 * * (+68)
16:40:02 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146107&oldid=146106 * * (+23)
16:40:29 <ais523> <wWwwW> so we should on wiki have an easy to accses place to ask this ← it's supposed to be Esolang talk:Community portal, but I think people have forgotten what a community portal is nowadays
16:40:48 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146108&oldid=146107 * Ractangle * (+175)
16:40:54 <wWwwW> yea. maybe we should make it more clear
16:41:03 <ais523> korvo: we do have the be bold rule, https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Policy
16:41:24 <ais523> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:About
16:41:43 <ais523> ah no, it's on its own page: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Be_bold_in_editing_pages
16:42:00 <ais523> we should really fix the polucy namespace some day
16:42:23 <ais523> fwiw, I think Esolang would benefit from a rule against *acting like* you're under 13…
16:42:35 <ais523> (which is quite different from being under 13)
16:42:59 <esolangs> [[Br greater than]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=146109 * Ractangle * (+37) Created page with "{{wrongtitle|title=br>}}{{lowercase}}"
16:43:12 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Be bold in editing pages]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146110&oldid=8276 * Corbin * (+29) Bluelink to WP:BOLD.
16:44:04 <esolangs> [[Br greater than]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146111&oldid=146109 * Ractangle * (+70)
16:44:49 <ais523> but yes, too much boldness is more of a problem than lack of boldness at the moment
16:45:16 <korvo> wWwwW: Note that the community portal is among the left-hand links; you can reach it from any other wiki page. There's lots of useful tools in the left-hand pane.
16:45:57 <ais523> another wiki I'm on used their community portal to decide to move the community to an entirely different side, as they were fed up with the ownership of the current one
16:46:02 <esolangs> [[0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146112&oldid=142063 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+23) /* Implementations */
16:46:09 <esolangs> [[0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146113&oldid=146112 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+1) /* Txet */
16:48:17 <esolangs> [[Br greater than]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146114&oldid=146111 * Ractangle * (+242)
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16:50:58 <wWwwW> i wanted to make an esolang where you cna only copy data
16:51:30 <esolangs> [[Br greater than]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146115&oldid=146114 * Ractangle * (+11)
16:54:12 <ais523> there are already copy-only esolangs that are TC
16:54:16 <ais523> https://esolangs.org/wiki/MiniMAX is one of mine
16:54:45 <korvo> [[Category:Reversible computing]] is what you want.
16:55:20 <ais523> korvo: copy-only doesn't necessarily mean reversible – MiniMAX isn't
16:56:02 <ais523> wWwwW: that doesn't mean you can't make one of your own
16:56:03 <wWwwW> somebody abandoned me oout of nowhere and i cant come up with anything no music no esolangs
16:56:06 <ais523> "you can only do one thing" esolangs are often interesting
16:56:25 <wWwwW> if its already been done ill just come up with a bad versiobn
16:56:45 <ais523> MiniMAX is one of my very first esolangs, it's quite a bit worse than the others in some ways
16:56:46 <esolangs> [[Rnadom]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146116&oldid=146036 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+0) /* polyglot */
16:56:49 <ais523> e.g. it's a bit inelegant
16:57:02 <esolangs> [[Rnadom]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146117&oldid=146116 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+6) /* polyglot */
16:58:34 <korvo> ais523: Good point.
16:59:00 <ais523> I tend to think of reversible esolangs as having primitives like xor-in-place
17:00:12 <wWwwW> like my idea would just be this:
17:00:13 <wWwwW> theres a single function \x.(x x)
17:00:13 <wWwwW> represented in bytes
17:00:14 <wWwwW> you use it to copy byte data and then smth happens ig
17:00:52 <ais523> the trick with that is to work out what happens
17:01:57 <wWwwW> ig that some sequence of bytes do smth to the next one
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17:04:52 <wWwwW> then the first byte is put into the duplicate function and the result is add to the end of the program
17:05:52 <wWwwW> theres brackets which puts the content into the function then evaluates that program as a sub program and the result is moved to the back of the program in brackets
17:06:18 <wWwwW> the program loops until 3 bytes come up right next to each other and are copies
17:06:22 <wWwwW> this is a bad idea
17:06:30 <wWwwW> im so bad at ideas :[
17:06:51 <korvo> You were doing really well up until that last line.
17:07:16 <wWwwW> idk what to do when it comes to halting
17:07:18 <korvo> "this is a bad idea," sure. Most ideas are bad. "i know [that this is a bad idea]," good. Self-awareness, reflection, openness to change and learning.
17:07:39 <korvo> "i'm so bad at ideas" is the Fundamental Attribution Error, a common fallacy.
17:07:41 <ais523> you need to go through lots of bad ideas to reach the good ideas, and even then you probably won't get the best version first time
17:08:10 <wWwwW> im just sad that i cant com e up with good ones
17:08:19 <wWwwW> like name one esolang ive made that was a good idea
17:09:16 <korvo> I don't know what it's called; you haven't invented it yet, because it's around a decade in the future, after you go to university.
17:09:30 <korvo> Maybe there will be other good ideas sooner, but that's the statistical expectation.
17:09:48 <wWwwW> yea im still just disappointed in myself
17:10:42 <korvo> Only because you expect too much of yourself.
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17:11:19 <korvo> Well, how many programming languages do you expect a teenager to make? How many of them do you expect to be good?
17:11:33 <wWwwW> well ive seen a lot
17:11:39 <wWwwW> cant remember which
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17:12:53 <korvo> I can't think of any. The languages that I use daily were crafted by academics or working professionals, folks with years of experience writing code, usually who were specialized in HCI (human-computer interfaces) or linguistics or teaching.
17:15:01 <korvo> As for meaningful art, I think of languages like Qalb https://nas.sr/%D9%82%D9%84%D8%A8/ whose author was like 19 or 20 when they first published it, and it's wholly syntax with no new semantics.
17:15:42 <ais523> I grew to appreciate interesting syntax more as time went on
17:15:57 <wWwwW> with like the halting condition
17:15:57 <ais523> for ages I thought only semantics mattered, then I saw what the codegolfers got up to, where syntax can be quite important
17:16:53 <korvo> I can appreciate syntax at an artistic level, but semantics, pragmatics, robotics/cybernetics, code structure and organization, collaboration techniques, licensing and legality; all are more important to me than syntax.
17:17:32 <korvo> Syntax mostly matters because it corresponds to the data that computers can exchange. If we don't care about that, then we get XML instead of JSON.
17:18:46 <korvo> wWwwW: I continue to think that you should work on the fundamentals of programming. It will help you think about the structures that an interpreter would have, which will help you imagine what a language can do.
17:19:14 <wWwwW> i have no good srouces for anything
17:19:20 <esolangs> [[2 bytes :^)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146118&oldid=108704 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+109) /* Interpreter */
17:19:52 <korvo> ...I could be wrong about this. I was trained to play the piano, which meant years of scales, then years of etudes, then years of prepared works, before I was allowed to play expressive jazz solos. And that was from ages 5-15, which is an earlier time window than for learning to program.
17:20:24 <esolangs> [[User talk:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146119&oldid=146040 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+5) /* Polyglot */
17:20:57 <korvo> wWwwW: I think we may have linked you the official Python tutorial: https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/ There are so many problems with Python, but a lack of sources is not one of them.
17:21:29 <wWwwW> i mean for other things that python cuz i dont feel like i learn anything new
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17:23:40 <korvo> wWwwW: Go read or write a Brainfuck interpreter, your choice. If that language is too hard, go read or write a DIVSPL interpreter. If you get stuck, you can ask for help; the goal is to get a little better at either reading or writing code.
17:24:21 <wWwwW> wait i forgot a detail
17:24:22 <korvo> If you've already written an interpreter, I happen to have spare time on this blessed Friday and I will review your code.
17:25:04 <wWwwW> how do you change a single idnex of a list (i am finding out im stupid)
17:25:45 <korvo> https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/introduction.html#lists
17:28:27 <korvo> No, you're overconfident and using self-deprecation as a way of avoiding change. You said that you "don't feel like [you] learn anything new", but also you could learn from the first page of the tutorial that you've been linked multiple times.
17:28:56 <korvo> For what it's worth, I know that the language barrier is real, and I'd link you to the Danish version of the tutorial if I could find it.
17:28:59 <wWwwW> yea but like ive already red it. also i dont wan to waste the money
17:29:06 <wWwwW> my parents use n like
17:29:11 <wWwwW> the course im taking
17:30:02 <korvo> There's no waste in learning from multiple sources. Your course won't be wasted just because you read the official tutorial.
17:30:30 <wWwwW> well if i can learne evrything from there then it would be wasted
17:32:15 <korvo> Programming is one of those disciplines where you'll have to learn everything all over again anyway. There's always an opportunity to learn more by re-reading.
17:32:53 <korvo> There's a Perlis about this, from https://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/perlis-alan/quotes.html: "Systems have sub-systems and sub-systems have sub- systems and so on ad infinitum - which is why we're always starting over."
17:33:23 <wWwwW> and ive also made a recursive interpreter:]
17:33:35 <korvo> ...That should be "sub-sub-systems". An infinite level of detail to consider, an infinite tower of interpreters to stack on top of one another, an infinite path of languages and commands and APIs, etc.
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18:00:55 <korvo> There's another relevant Perlis: "It goes against the grain of modern education to teach children to program. What fun is there in making plans, acquiring discipline in organizing thoughts, devoting attention to detail and learning to be self-critical?"
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18:30:01 <esolangs> [[Subtle cough]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146120&oldid=30936 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+29) /* Calculation of operator table */
18:36:13 <b_jonas> does BytePusher count as copy-only? I dislike BytePusher, but I dislike it less than I used to
18:41:11 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146121&oldid=146108 * * (+97)
18:41:50 <b_jonas> wWwwW: if you insist on writing an interpreter, I would recommend to try https://esolangs.org/wiki/Intcode , it's much more interesting than brainfuck
18:42:49 <esolangs> [[Br greater than]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146122&oldid=146115 * * (-32)
18:49:20 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146123&oldid=146121 * Ractangle * (+204)
18:53:09 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146124&oldid=146123 * * (+250)
19:00:00 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146125&oldid=146124 * Ractangle * (+177)
19:03:55 <esolangs> [[Half-Broken Car in Heavy Traffic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146126&oldid=110663 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+2)
19:13:28 <esolangs> [[Br greater than]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146127&oldid=146122 * * (+1402)
19:13:58 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146128&oldid=146125 * * (+120)
19:20:39 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146129&oldid=146128 * * (+81)
19:21:35 <esolangs> [[Br greater than]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146130&oldid=146127 * * (+0)
19:22:15 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146131&oldid=146129 * * (+57) /* My esolangs */ new section
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19:24:22 <esolangs> [[User:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146132&oldid=145442 * * (+15)
19:29:18 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146133&oldid=146131 * * (+22)
19:29:38 <esolangs> [[Andrew Code]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=146134 * BestCoder * (+327) Created page with " . = low or one tap - - high or two tap == Key == a = . b = - c = .. d = .- e = -. f = -- g = ... h = ..- i = .-. j = .-- k = -.. l = -.- m = --. n = --- o = .... p = ...- q = ..-. r = ..-- s = .-.. t = .-.- u = .--. v = .--- w = -... x = -
19:31:48 <esolangs> [[Andrew Code]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146135&oldid=146134 * BestCoder * (+0)
19:34:49 <esolangs> [[ILlogIc.]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=146136 * * (+330) Created page with "ILlogIc. is an esolang by [[User:]] based on logic theory. ==Commands== {| class="wikitable" |+ All Commands |- ! Command !! Effect |- | A=t / A=f || Sets A to true or false |- | A>B || Sets B to on if A is on. |- | A>!B || Sets B to off if A is on. |- | Out ABCD.. || Output
19:51:00 <esolangs> [[Br greater than]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146137&oldid=146130 * * (+311)
19:51:17 <esolangs> [[Br greater than]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146138&oldid=146137 * * (+0)
19:51:30 <esolangs> [[Br greater than]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146139&oldid=146138 * * (+1)
19:52:17 <esolangs> [[Br greater than]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146140&oldid=146139 * * (+25)
19:58:07 <zzo38> I would want that the browser can display a structured JSON file, with possibility of collapsing, and assigning it to a variable that can be referred to in the console (so that you can enter calculations on it), and perhaps menus (with user settings to customize) for such commands as "display rendered HTML", "copy string value to clipboard", "decode base64 and copy to clipboard", "decode base64 and display rendered as MIME type", etc.
20:08:49 <esolangs> [[ILlogIc.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146141&oldid=146136 * * (+827) Added basic programs
20:10:32 <esolangs> [[ILlogIc.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146142&oldid=146141 * * (+34) Added more loops
20:15:59 <zzo38> If you consider not necessarily being a full programming language and quines not necessarily being finite or non-empty, then I think hex encoding has two possible quines (empty string and infinite string of threes) and object identifier encoding has exactly one (starting with "1.9.46.57.46").
20:16:33 <ais523> I think a language doesn't have to be a programming language to have quines, e.g. there are zip quines
20:20:40 <esolangs> [[ILlogIc.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146143&oldid=146142 * * (+161) Added another program and removed unnecessary commands
20:23:49 <zzo38> Yes, I know of that too.
20:24:02 <esolangs> [[ILlogIc.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146144&oldid=146143 * * (+0)
20:26:15 <esolangs> [[ILlogIc.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146145&oldid=146144 * * (+0)
20:29:10 <esolangs> [[User:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146146&oldid=146132 * * (+55)
20:29:21 <esolangs> [[Eror]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=146147 * 5anz * (+8403) Created page with "Hello, this is my third Esolang, [[Eror]]. I'm [[User:5anz]]. This Esolang is about making errors (known as erors here) intentionally, since there are no real control flow options (If this then that, Do this until this condition is met, etc.) other than EROR:. This Esolang is
20:34:40 <esolangs> [[CharLang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146148&oldid=146055 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+97) Categories
20:34:53 <esolangs> [[User:5anz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146149&oldid=146018 * 5anz * (+235)
20:38:06 <esolangs> [[Esolasagna]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146150&oldid=146105 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+190) Stub, categories
20:39:57 <esolangs> [[Andrew Code]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146151&oldid=146135 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+23) Category
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20:45:43 <esolangs> [[Br greater than]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146152&oldid=146140 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+134) Formatting, categories
20:49:11 <esolangs> [[ILlogIc.]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146153&oldid=146145 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+110) Categories
20:52:39 <esolangs> [[Eror]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146154&oldid=146147 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+135) Categories
20:54:58 <esolangs> [[Talk:Eror]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=146155 * 5anz * (+977) Created page with "Hey, [[User:5anz]] here, I was planning on adding an honourable mentions section (full of things I was planning on adding, but I chose to cut), but I didn't feel like it was important enough, so I'll add it here. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Name !! Functionality !! Activat
20:56:08 <esolangs> [[Talk:Eror]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146156&oldid=146155 * 5anz * (+26)
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21:18:12 <esolangs> [[Talk:25 bytes o:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146157&oldid=129177 * 5anz * (+229)
21:19:04 <esolangs> [[Talk:25 bytes o:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146158&oldid=146157 * 5anz * (+18)
21:19:25 <esolangs> [[Talk:25 bytes o:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146159&oldid=146158 * 5anz * (+80) /* I beat you */
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21:21:34 <esolangs> [[Talk:25 bytes o:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146160&oldid=146159 * 5anz * (+116) /* I beat you */
21:37:14 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ractangle * moved [[TIB13BBWSM]] to [[TIB-472 Calculator]]
21:37:32 <esolangs> [[Eror]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146163&oldid=146154 * 5anz * (+595) /* External Resources */
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21:45:54 <esolangs> [[TIB-472 Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146164&oldid=146161 * Ractangle * (-91)
21:46:11 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146165&oldid=146012 * Ractangle * (+8)
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21:52:03 <esolangs> [[TIB-472 Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146166&oldid=146164 * Ractangle * (+139) /* Syntax */
21:57:06 <esolangs> [[?++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146167&oldid=139909 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-16) Changed redirect target from [[User:Ractangle/?++]] to [[++]]
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22:21:33 <esolangs> [[Br greater than]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146168&oldid=146152 * Ractangle * (+90) /* Commands */
22:25:29 <esolangs> [[TIB-472 Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146169&oldid=146166 * Ractangle * (-26) /* Syntax */
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22:35:17 <esolangs> [[TIB-472 Calculator]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146170&oldid=146169 * Ractangle * (+56) /* Syntax */
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22:53:55 <esolangs> [[):]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146171&oldid=145692 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+2)
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23:03:55 <Soni> JVM language with rust-style .unwrap() and ?, but they apply to exceptions
23:05:58 <Soni> (this is a terrible idea, but that's what makes it #esolangs :p)
23:09:07 <ais523> for a previous job I basically had to write a wrapper that turned JVM exceptions into a Rust Option and back again, so that they could be sent over the network
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23:41:11 <esolangs> [[MIRROR]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=146172&oldid=134213 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+32) /* Interpreter */
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