2024-11-01: 00:00:26 But it would make golfing https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/shapez-balanced-stacker.html harder :) 00:00:29 which is why it's high, it'd be easier to priority merge two belts that carry fixed shapes 00:01:10 what the heck is that contraption? 00:01:47 a perfectly synchronized stacker from my MAM design 00:02:31 woa 00:03:42 give me a moment, I'm trying to trace those belts through those woven opposite tunnels still 00:05:28 I'm sure you've seen this before, but that was 2 years ago :) 00:07:15 -!- baldibacak has quit (Quit: Client closed). 00:07:25 Hah, the second image isn't right. I never noticed. 00:08:14 (The two inputs are supposed to cross over to the other side.) 00:08:28 ok, I think I can kind of see how this might work 00:08:43 also it's crazy and fragile if you use it that way 00:09:29 Well, splitters are deterministic. And yes, my MAM is fragile. 00:09:51 in particular, do the outputs form the eight stackers never get into each other's way such that it causes buffering at a stacker and queueing up before its inputs? 00:10:15 https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tree-mam/#control "When this inevitably goes wrong while experimenting with various timings, synchronization will be compromised. In this case, it is enough to clear all belts in the MAM to return to a pristine state." 00:10:26 you only have a few shapes of leeway until the output of a splitter is blocked and the careful alternation breaks 00:10:41 right 00:10:42 there's a tiny output buffer 00:12:03 As long as you feed the /exact/ same number of items on both sides it'll work perfectly. Unless you save and restore the game with production in progress... that'll wreak havoc on the machine. 00:12:23 (Which is why my control area has an on/off button) 00:13:07 I have an on-off button for the MAM too, but not for that reason 00:13:37 I put it there mostly in case I want to edit the museum contraption without losing a freeplay shape 00:14:10 and because it's easy enough to add 00:14:26 it's like one button and one transistor 00:15:36 It's actually a bit tricky for me because I have to let the previous production cycle complete before switching everything off; switching things off mid production run would destroy the balance. 00:15:43 or synchronization 00:15:57 right, because of the splitters 00:16:01 (I forgot that that was the term I settled on when describing the MAM) 00:17:26 if you want to build that kind of crazy contraption synchronized such that you count every single item, you can do it in Factorio too by the way 00:17:57 it might not be the most practical thing to do, but there's a big enoguh community that does all sorts of esoteric things in Factorio 00:18:04 that is kind of cool given that the game is so much messier. 00:18:15 inclusing a whole Discord named "Technical Factorio" 00:18:35 yeah, but save and load saves and loads all the state properly 00:19:11 or at least more of the state than shapez.io; technically it needn't save all state of certain mods 00:19:43 Yeah the fact that *that* doesn't work properly in shapez.io is kind of embarrassing. I've seen mention of a mod that fixes this, by somebody who works on shapez.io TAS runs, which makes a lot of sense. :) 00:20:11 I didn't save the link. 00:21:34 I do know what state is missing though... it's the one-item output buffer of producers, and the up-to-two (IIRC) pending "charges" of production buildings. 00:21:38 nice 00:24:15 Factorio is forced to handle save-loads properly because it's built to work as a multiplayer network game with the state perfectly synchronized across clients. 00:24:52 Detecting a single belt item is tricky in shapez.io btw. The problem with the filter+storage combination is that it traps an item, and you detect an item, the previous item is released. 00:25:17 Right, multiplayer will force you to properly serialize all relevant state. 00:26:55 I find it technically pretty impressive that they have both synchronized network play and a good modding system built into the same game engine (even if mods need to support network play when they do certain things, because the game core carefully does all its computations deterministically, but mods can do things that aren't deterministic and then that breaks across network play) 00:27:16 it's *much* harder than just having two games, one with synchronized network play and one with a mod system 00:28:38 and it's not just a theoretical proof of concept demo of this, players are actively using multiplayer and impressive modding things and both are optimized well and give a good player experience 00:29:16 [[PyFuck (kuangkzh)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144716&oldid=144686 * ShirAko * (+42) changed link for hello world 00:29:29 if they were less insane they'd never have added network multi-headed gameplay 00:31:45 [[PyFuck (kuangkzh)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144717&oldid=144716 * ShirAko * (-42) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/144716|144716]] by [[Special:Contributions/ShirAko|ShirAko]] ([[User talk:ShirAko|talk]]) 00:49:25 [[PyFuck (shirAko)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144718&oldid=144679 * ShirAko * (+1) small correction 02:00:07 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:00:34 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 04:39:48 Is there object identifiers for geodetic reference systems (e.g. WGS84, NAD83, etc)? 04:58:53 [[9]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144719&oldid=144709 * Yayimhere * (+10) 06:36:22 [[User:Superstitionfreeblog]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144720&oldid=144557 * Superstitionfreeblog * (+7391) 06:52:19 [[User talk:ZCX islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144721&oldid=143526 * Superstitionfreeblog * (+216) 06:59:51 [[Talk:Subleq]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144722&oldid=143517 * Superstitionfreeblog * (+422) 07:01:28 [[User:Superstitionfreeblog]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144723&oldid=144720 * Superstitionfreeblog * (+1) /* Subleq8: My 8 bit subleq interpreter source code */ 07:28:30 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:44:59 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 07:46:09 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:47:37 /me is thinking idly about bfjoust interpreter optimizations 07:47:53 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 07:47:57 After ais mentioned it, I think it's very practical to do. (In a language suited to slightly more advanced compiler code, anyways) 07:49:38 Any segment that runs entirely instructions from the following set can be a "clear loop": [ + - . { 07:50:13 That segment effectively has no means to exit unless: A) the timer expires, B) the current cell is set to zero. 07:50:34 if both bots are in such a segment, the entire resolution can be fast forwarded. 07:52:01 Should be able to fast forward the match by hundreds of cycles at a time in .... any practical match, tbh. 07:54:53 It'd be bounded by two things: The maximum length of time each "fast-forwardable segment" can execute for before it branches due to e.g. an offset clear, and the cell it's on actually reaching 0 so that while loops can be entered/exited.. 07:55:11 Notably this works even if the two bots are on the same cell. 07:55:40 You can still find a movement rate for e.g. (+)*-1 fighting [+.] 07:55:43 [[FROSTWIRE-666]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144724&oldid=144550 * Salpynx * (+757) FROSTWIRE-666 is growing on me. I want to extract a usable fixed point combinator from , but Python is not the best tool for it.. 07:56:42 -!- tromp has joined. 08:06:18 -!- iddi01 has joined. 08:07:16 !ztest beta https://www.paste.org/flat/128387 08:07:17 iddi01.beta: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 08:08:36 d a m n  p a s t e . o  r g  d o n ' t  w o r k 08:09:08 Another observation: there exists a "time before first interaciton" in every BFJoust match. 08:09:40 Before either bot reaches the furthest cell the other bot has reached. 08:10:28 You can run e.g. tape 10 up to that point, save the state, then when doing tape 10, insert a cell in between from the saved state, as the bots bascially have yet to determine the tape length. Furthermore, you can transfer the first cycles of the normal polarity to the polarity flipped on the same principle. 08:10:40 If you add cycle advantage as a configuration, you apply the same principle for that too. 08:11:14 In the extreme case, this can determine that two flag defenders will XXXXXXXX after one round. 08:12:20 These two techniques combined should skip a significant portion of the mid/endgame for fast-forwarding loops and a significant portion of the earlygame (when there's no pokes involved) for the time before first interaction metric. 08:13:57 !ztest beta https://pastebin.com/raw/4Wtf25Zz 08:13:58 iddi01.beta: points 9.74, score 31.02, rank 5/47 08:14:10 !zjoust beta https://pastebin.com/raw/4Wtf25Zz 08:14:10 iddi01.beta: points 9.74, score 31.02, rank 5/47 08:19:12 [[Talk:FROSTWIRE-666]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144725&oldid=144576 * Salpynx * (+835) /* complete basis? */ links for future reference 08:20:14 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 08:26:03 -!- Guest77 has joined. 08:27:14 does anybody know why APL has all thewierd symbols?(i need tisfor an esolang) 08:28:08 Guest77: in the early days of programming the choice of character sets wasn't really fixed, so all languages were in a way using weird symbols 08:28:26 ok 08:28:37 and APL came up with a descriptive set for its own use because, with no standard set, it might as well 08:28:43 lol 08:28:50 !zjoust another_rush_program 08:28:50 iddi01.another_rush_program: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 (-36) 08:29:05 wat bout jelly? 08:29:15 -!- tromp has joined. 08:29:17 !zjoust beta https://pastebin.com/raw/4Wtf25Zz 08:29:17 iddi01.beta: points 11.74, score 33.84, rank 4/47 (--) 08:29:49 Jelly's character set was chosen to be easy to type 08:30:01 easytotype? 08:30:05 it's quite hard to come up with 256 characters that are all typeable 08:30:11 they arent even qwertytho 08:30:18 alsobye 08:30:21 ill checklogs 08:30:27 -!- Guest77 has quit (Client Quit). 08:30:32 there are keyboard layouts which use altgr like a second shift key, to give four symbols per key 08:30:39 !zjoust another_rush_program (>)*8-----<<(+)*23<<(-)*33<<(+)*65>(+)*33<<(-)*44<(-)*21>>[(>)*9(>[+[+[--[-[-[(-[{(+)*26(+[{(+)*92(+.)*24(>(+)*116(+.)*24)*-1}])%25}])%23]]]]]])*25]<<(---+)*-1 08:30:39 iddi01.another_rush_program: points 5.12, score 25.22, rank 11/47 (+36) 08:30:49 e.g. the a key produces a A æ Æ with no modifier, shift, altgr, and altgr-shift 08:30:55 [[Talk:FROSTWIRE-666]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144726&oldid=144725 * Salpynx * (+257) /* complete basis? */ B combinator lulz 08:31:34 altgr-j is a prefix that produces ả,ɓ,ƈ, etc., which is why Jelly uses a lot of symbols like that 08:31:48 clearly if you need a quick 256 character encoding, just use kanji. It's easy to type. :^) 08:32:00 altgr-/ is underdot, ạḅḍẹ 08:32:09 altgr-shift-/ is overdot, ȧḃḋė 08:32:34 Lymia: over the last couple of days I have been trying to find a kanji input method I like 08:33:47 I have been considering creating my own, designed for trying to input ideograms that you could only see from a distance or at a small font size and can't make out all the details, and also don't know the language 08:34:13 LOL 08:34:54 (also I have taken an unusual approach by attempting to learn written Chinese ideograms and written Japanese ideograms simultaneously – there is so much overlap that it makes more sense to learn the character and how it differs in the two languages, than to try to learn it separately) 08:38:44 [[Talk:FROSTWIRE-666]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144727&oldid=144726 * Salpynx * (+21) /* complete basis? */ link to specific section of that long SKI page 08:47:11 whoops, β ranked first in traditional scoring. did that count as topping the hill? 08:47:50 there are different senses of topping 08:48:34 I mean the sense that the BF joust champions page uses 08:49:01 it's intentionally a bit vague, and I don't think this situation's come up before 08:49:19 or, well, back when there were two working hills you'd just submit to the hill that used the scoring you'd need 08:50:05 I think being #1 in any major scoring system is probably good enough to add to the article, assuming that you didn't get there via excessive overfitting – it's a high bar to reach 08:51:25 Well, β doesn't include any special-case code at all 08:53:06 the strategy seems innovative enough 08:53:19 it is mildly reminiscent of growth2 but there are significant differences 08:55:52 I think it's the sort of program for which the champions page would gain from an explanation 09:23:37 [[BF Joust champions]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144728&oldid=144605 * Iddi01 * (+1703) A new only-in-traditional-scoring champion 09:29:43 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 09:33:52 -!- salpynx has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:34:04 -!- iddi01 has quit (Quit: Client closed). 09:43:42 [[BF Joust champions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144729&oldid=144728 * Iddi01 * (+41) /* 2024 */ The wiggle for the third step is actually smaller 10:31:42 -!- amby has joined. 10:41:08 -!- spiderella has changed nick to isabella. 10:43:47 [[EsoInterpreters]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144730&oldid=144658 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+1735) Added Stringle, Exechars and Execode 10:46:23 [[Brainfuck/Esointerpreters]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144731&oldid=144465 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+34) /* See also*/ Added link to Esointerpreters page 11:42:02 [[Talk:Gift]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144732&oldid=141099 * PrySigneToFry * (+276) 11:48:59 [[Slink]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144733 * 3cxpy * (+2857) Create the "Slink" page 11:52:38 [[Slink]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144734&oldid=144733 * 3cxpy * (+50) 11:56:49 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:01:26 [[Slink]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144735&oldid=144734 * 3cxpy * (+13) 12:12:22 -!- tromp has joined. 12:25:50 -!- X-Scale has joined. 12:29:49 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:37:02 “there are keyboard layouts which use altgr like a second shift key, to give four symbols per key” => the hungarian layouts on Windows use altgr (or control-alt) as a second shift key giving *three* symbols per key. for example, altgr+j gives í and altgre+i gives Í, altgr+a gives ä and iirc altgr+s gives Ä, altgr+comma gives semicolon, altgr+z gives greater-than, etc. all ascii characters are 12:37:08 available on one of the three layers, and there are also some altgr combinations that give an accent that tries to modify the following letter that you type. 12:40:03 -!- wWwwW has joined. 12:40:27 [[User:ChuckEsoteric08/Interpreters]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144736&oldid=144692 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+0) /* SHITS in CDILOI */ 12:40:34 nope, incorrect, it's altgr+e that gives Ä 12:40:34 thx for the help ais523!(yes i was guest77) 12:40:40 [[SHITS]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144737&oldid=144654 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-1) /* In CDILOI */ 12:41:13 there are only four lowercase-uppercase pairs directly on the altgr layer though 12:42:21 just three layers would be rather silly if there had to be more 12:48:43 [[Talk:FROSTWIRE-666]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144738&oldid=144727 * Yayimhere * (+134) /* complete basis? */ 12:51:29 Guest77: APL evolved from a notation that could be used to write about mathematics and not necessarily computer code. the first computer-executable versions of APL were designed to be used on a Selectric electromechanical typewriter used as serial terminal, very popular in America at the time. the Selectrics use a replacable ball-shaped type with 88 or 96 glyphs per ball, so APL on it used a custom ball 12:51:35 that has a custom set of symbols, and a lot of extra symbols were made from combining two symbols backspacing, which is why there are combinations. then some later APLs kept those same symbols even in such contexts where such backspacing to combine two symbols wasn't available anymore, as in video terminals. 12:51:50 you can ping me for Guest77 k 12:52:12 [[Talk:FROSTWIRE-666]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144739&oldid=144738 * Yayimhere * (+57) /* complete basis? */ 12:54:02 and I don't think even all 88 glyphs were used, I think maybe only 80-something were available if they used a 5-bit serial tty rather than 7-bit or 8-bit, which is why there were so many overstruck characters 12:54:14 but maybe the did use a 7-bit or 8-bit tty, I don't know 12:54:28 also 12:54:30 what about like 12:54:32 the 12:54:40 UIUA and all those APL likes 12:54:44 why did they adopt it 12:55:47 what is "UIUA"? 12:56:06 that stack based lang 12:56:10 i think its UIUA 12:56:43 tis ting: https://www.uiua.org/ 13:00:14 incidentally the IBM Selectric series is such an advanced machine for its time that it's quite amazing how they could mass-produce it and adopt it in many places. it's almost non-existent here in Europe, I've never seen one in person (except for one Selectric behind glass in a museum cabinet that was exhibited in a way that all you could see is a fancy plastic chasis and a keyboard), so I was wondering 13:00:21 for a while if it's a machine that was just an american hoax (and possibly expensive prototype machine) propagated to convince the SU of the west's technological superiority, but then later a service manual and some disassembly videos turned up on the internet, so now I'm pretty sure at least two of the three generations did actually exist 13:02:22 -!- amby has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:04:30 that said, almost none of the APL symbols are actually weird, all of them are clearly either symbols used before APL, or simple geometric shapes (small center circle, large circle, bottom _|_, top ~|~, delta, nabla, large rectangle, multiplication sign ×, six-pointed star) or overstruck combinations of them (bottom+small circle, top+small circle, vertical bar+nabla => pine, rectangle+comma => system, 13:04:36 minus+colon => division, large circle+six-pointed star => log) 13:05:30 then some of the later invented symbols use a diaresis/umlaut combined with symbols 13:05:45 ig 13:06:39 many of the symbols are *unique*, first used for APL, but none of them really are weird other than maybe the rectangle+comma 13:08:10 maybe the division sign ÷ isn't actually composed because there's also a domino symbol which is division+large rectangle 13:10:18 I have no idea which symbols are old and which ones were added later though 13:11:11 the variant that I'm most familiar with is semi-old versions of J, which is an APL that uses ascii symbols only and was designed by the late Ken Iverson himself together with Roger Hui 13:11:40 we had a bunch of IRC bots evaluating it for a while but none of them are alive anymore and it isn't likely that there'll be any more 13:11:55 one of the main drawbacks why I don't like J though is the large number of incompatible changes between versions 13:12:18 ah right, there's no large rectangle+comma, there's only a large rectangle+apostrophe 13:13:42 ok fair, there's one really weird symbol, the lightbulb to mark comments, and I don't think that one was composed 13:22:56 -!- amby has joined. 13:24:06 [[InPro]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144740 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+725) Created page with "'''InPro''' ('''In'''finite '''Pro'''gram) is a [[brainfuck]] derivative by [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] ==Description== The programs in the language are infinite, and thus it it needs to be run using a REPL. In this version while loop [...] is instead an 13:24:42 [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144741&oldid=144578 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+11) /* 2024 */ added InPro 13:25:21 [[Inpro]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144742 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+19) Redirected page to [[InPro]] 13:27:03 [[Conditional Bee]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144743&oldid=94263 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-4) 13:28:49 -!- amby has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:56:04 -!- baldibacak has joined. 14:15:15 [[CDILOI]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144744&oldid=141001 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+12) /* Computational class */ 14:29:21 -!- Sgeo has joined. 14:37:50 [[TACC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144745&oldid=120863 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+722) /* Examples */ 14:44:26 [[EsoInterpreters]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144746&oldid=144730 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+515) /* Main table */ Added brainfuck in Textile 14:47:00 [[DOG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144747&oldid=96958 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+23) /* External resources */ 15:01:27 -!- X-Scale has quit (Quit: Client closed). 15:25:39 [[User:Hakerh400]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144748&oldid=143929 * Hakerh400 * (+1) /* Conjectures */ 15:25:55 -!- tromp has joined. 15:29:55 [[FROSTWIRE-666]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144749&oldid=144724 * Yayimhere * (+54) /* Computational class */ 15:30:58 [[Talk:FROSTWIRE-666]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144750&oldid=144739 * Yayimhere * (+59) /* complete basis? */ 15:45:27 -!- wWwwW has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:47:31 -!- fowl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:52:48 -!- amby has joined. 16:07:30 -!- craigo has joined. 16:07:41 -!- craigo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:14:26 -!- craigo has joined. 16:20:45 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 16:24:44 -!- tromp has joined. 16:29:21 -!- X-Scale has joined. 16:35:20 -!- wWwwW has joined. 16:44:23 -!- wWwwW has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:09:32 [[User:Hakerh400/Conjectures]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144751&oldid=90585 * Hakerh400 * (+2268) Add a new conjecture. 17:46:12 -!- wWwwW has joined. 17:57:14 -!- wWwwW has quit (Quit: Client closed). 18:20:15 [[Talk:HakerScript]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144752 * Baldibacak * (+290) Created page with "hello i am new here but i have an suggestion for brutforce it pauses program for 1-5 sec but instead what if we iterate that many times for example brutforce 127.0.0.1 100000 which gonna run a loop that increments variable until variable = 100000 which is ac 18:20:34 [[Talk:HakerScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144753&oldid=144752 * Baldibacak * (+12) added pre tag for newlines 18:22:19 -!- amby has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:22:36 -!- amby has joined. 18:27:36 -!- amby has quit (Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement). 18:41:47 -!- baldibacak has quit (Quit: Client closed). 19:03:47 -!- X-Scale has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:07:57 -!- baldibacak has joined. 19:09:05 -!- baldibacak has quit (Client Quit). 19:09:51 -!- baldibacak has joined. 19:24:43 -!- Everything has joined. 19:34:31 -!- Everything has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:35:21 -!- Everything has joined. 19:58:43 -!- X-Scale has joined. 20:05:41 [[10 1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144754&oldid=144688 * Baldibacak * (+40) 20:05:56 [[Talk:Jumpy]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144755 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+387) Created page with "Wouldn't Jumpy be a [[linear bounded automaton]], since it can only access finitely many cells on the Game of Life board. :--~~~~" 20:06:04 [[10 1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144756&oldid=144754 * Baldibacak * (-1) f 20:16:23 [[Eafh]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144757&oldid=138460 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+41) /* Interpreter */ 20:21:48 [[Preserve Line Numbers]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144758&oldid=114784 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+85) /* Example Programs */ 20:22:10 [[Talk:B2C]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144759 * Baldibacak * (+139) Created page with "i dont think this esolang is turing complate since there is only 2 cells unless they are infinite bits in size they cant be turing complate" 20:24:53 [[Multiply]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144760&oldid=101871 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+90) /* Examples */ 20:35:49 [[Eafh]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144761&oldid=144757 * Baldibacak * (+52) written an ecliptica interpreter 20:37:06 [[JAGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144762&oldid=144456 * Ractangle * (-7) Interpreter moved 20:37:46 [[User:Tommyaweosme/hjhjhj]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144763&oldid=135411 * Baldibacak * (-1213) removed bullshit and fixed categoryies 20:38:30 [[User:Tommyaweosme/hjhjhj]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144764&oldid=144763 * Baldibacak * (+1213) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/144763|144763]] by [[Special:Contributions/Baldibacak|Baldibacak]] ([[User talk:Baldibacak|talk]]) 20:58:15 -!- baldibacak has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:07:26 -!- baldibacak has joined. 21:12:19 -!- amby has joined. 21:21:29 -!- X-Scale has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:39:44 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 21:41:01 -!- tromp has joined. 21:49:56 -!- Everything has quit (Quit: leaving). 22:01:10 [[Preserve Line Numbers]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144765&oldid=144758 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+142) /* Example Programs */ 22:03:00 -!- baldibacak has quit (Quit: Client closed). 22:03:24 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 22:12:07 [[=/=]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144766 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+26) Redirected page to [[Unassignable]] 22:19:07 [[OOo CODE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144767&oldid=139779 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+76) /* Examples */ 22:45:54 -!- ais523 has joined. 22:51:31 [[User talk:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144768&oldid=144436 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-71) 22:57:41 [[Talk:B2C]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144769&oldid=144759 * None1 * (+263) It's an FSA 23:03:53 [[Preserve Line Numbers]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144770&oldid=144765 * None1 * (-208) These examples don't work as it can only print consecutive numbers starting with 1 23:51:49 [[Talk:Jumpy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144771&oldid=144755 * Corbin * (+574) Demonstrate how to decide Jumpy in linear time. 2024-11-02: 00:05:05 -!- craigo has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:52:32 [[Talk:Jumpy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144772&oldid=144771 * Ais523 * (+476) programs are infinitely long 01:39:05 [[User:Hakerh400/Conjectures]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144773&oldid=144751 * Hakerh400 * (-2) /* Conjecture 4 */ 02:04:20 -!- amby has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:30:44 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Arsonist * New user account 02:42:25 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144774&oldid=144591 * Arsonist * (+431) /* Introductions */ 04:04:32 -!- X-Scale has joined. 05:24:23 -!- Guest60 has joined. 05:25:01 hey i wanted to know 05:25:19 (for an esolang) 05:25:49 how to kindoff integrate monads(programming monads) into LC 05:25:59 like for example 05:26:12 >== from haskell 05:32:53 [[Black Pentagon]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144775&oldid=126176 * Gggfr * (-1) /* Introduction */ changed to right word 05:33:34 -!- Guest60 has quit (Quit: Client closed). 06:04:02 -!- wWwwW has joined. 07:15:02 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 07:30:28 -!- tromp has joined. 07:45:28 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 07:46:26 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:48:24 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 08:57:27 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:10:24 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 10:04:47 -!- X-Scale has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:16:07 [[PyFuck (kuangkzh)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144776&oldid=144717 * None1 * (+16) Real name from his github page 10:21:36 [[B2C]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144777&oldid=120138 * None1 * (+2) /* External resources */ change to GitHub Pages site 10:24:41 [[User:ChuckEsoteric08/Interpreters]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144778&oldid=144736 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+430) Added CT in CDILOI 10:25:46 [[Remove Line Numbers]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144779&oldid=134363 * None1 * (-99) Remove down replit link 10:26:49 [[Preserve Line Numbers]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144780&oldid=144770 * None1 * (-99) /* C++ as Windows executable (64bit) (faster link) */ remove down replit link 10:27:50 -!- tromp has joined. 10:31:51 [[OOo CODE]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144781&oldid=144767 * None1 * (+1) /* External resources */ 10:38:11 [[OOo CODE]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144782&oldid=144781 * None1 * (-23) /* External resources */ probably dead 10:40:23 [[ChuckEsoteric08/Interpreters]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144783 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+47) Redirected page to [[User:ChuckEsoteric08/Interpreters]] 10:44:55 [[EsoInterpreters]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144784&oldid=144746 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+61) Added CT in CDILOI 10:49:39 [[CDILOI]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144785&oldid=144744 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-6) /* Computational class */ 11:02:12 [[DOG]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144786&oldid=144747 * None1 * (+28) /* External resources */ 11:13:20 -!- wWwwW has quit (Quit: Client closed). 11:28:56 -!- amby has joined. 11:47:20 [[BF Joust strategies]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144787&oldid=144501 * Iddi01 * (+117) lots of minor fixes 13:14:51 -!- earend1 has joined. 13:35:15 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 13:40:03 -!- tromp has joined. 13:42:47 -!- X-Scale has joined. 13:50:01 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 13:54:51 -!- X-Scale has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:55:29 -!- tromp has joined. 14:28:59 [[1 bytes :3]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144788&oldid=144520 * Ractangle * (-2) I take that back 14:34:04 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:37:13 [[BF Joust strategies]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144789&oldid=144787 * Ais523 * (+61) /* The rule of nine */ partial rv the rule of nine is about attacking from the tenth cell, and although some slow rush programs do attack from further away, this is generally considered to be a rule of nine violation rather than part of the rule 14:39:48 [[BF Joust strategies]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144790&oldid=144789 * Ais523 * (+40) /* Poke */ partial rv the point isn't the number of decoys but the distance from the flag, which "advanced" reflected but "additional" doesn't write it out more clearly 14:40:29 [[BF Joust strategies]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144791&oldid=144790 * Ais523 * (-20) /* Reverse tripwire avoidance */ partial rv what makes you think the program was untested? 14:42:36 [[BF Joust strategies]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144792&oldid=144791 * Ais523 * (-12) /* Defense */ reword/clarify 14:42:51 -!- craigo has joined. 14:44:34 [[BF Joust strategies]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144793&oldid=144792 * Ais523 * (-8) /* Probabilistic lock */ partial rv "usually" doesn't really make sense given that we are talking about probabilities here the possibility of a good or bad timing matchup is included in the proportion of the time that the lock is gained 14:59:56 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 15:05:13 -!- tromp has joined. 15:06:13 -!- tromp has quit (Client Quit). 15:10:57 -!- tromp has joined. 15:29:17 -!- craigo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:30:20 -!- craigo has joined. 15:33:44 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 15:37:26 [[1 bytes :3]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144794&oldid=144788 * Ractangle * (+56) /* interpreter */ 15:37:53 [[1 bytes :3]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144795&oldid=144794 * Ractangle * (+30) /* interpreters */ 15:42:12 [[BF Joust strategies]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144796&oldid=144793 * Iddi01 * (+104) /* Reverse tripwire avoidance */ Look at the history, the author said it was untested 15:44:23 -!- tromp has joined. 16:04:49 -!- wWwwW has joined. 16:11:56 [[1 bytes :3]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144797&oldid=144795 * Ractangle * (-5) /* interpreters */ 16:13:49 can anybody aswer Guest60(it was me) 16:13:53 [[1 bytes :3]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144798&oldid=144797 * Ractangle * (-26) /* print */ 16:14:40 [[Hello world!]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144799 * Ractangle * (+27) Redirected page to [[Hello, world!]] 16:15:21 [[1 bytes :3]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144800&oldid=144798 * Ractangle * (+1) /* Hello world */ 16:20:59 [[JAGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144801&oldid=144762 * Ractangle * (+50) /* Syntax */ 16:21:14 [[JAGL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144802&oldid=144801 * Ractangle * (-30) /* Syntax */ 16:34:18 -!- Guest67 has joined. 16:34:22 Hello 16:34:41 hellllo 16:38:40 I have a programming question, can I get information about esoteric languages ​​from the site https://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page using sparql as I would for wikidata (ex: SELECT ?propertyLabel ?valueLabel WHERE { 16:38:41  wd:Q244627 ?property ?value . 16:38:41  SERVICE wikibase:label { bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "[AUTO_LANGUAGE],en". } 16:38:42 } 16:38:42 ORDER BY ?propertyLabel)? 16:39:11 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 16:41:25 Guest67: IIUC there aren't SPARQL endpoints builtin for MediaWiki; we'd need to add an extension of some sort. 16:41:47 Note that most pages on the wiki are *not* sufficiently annotated to allow for useful queries anyway. The wiki isn't a relational database at all. 16:41:53 also 16:42:27 why is it so rare we change featured lang? 16:42:46 wWwwW: It still doesn't make sense to "integrate monads" into lambda calculus; are you thinking of Kleisli categories or something else? 16:43:17 no 16:43:19 Featured pages usually have to meet some minimum standard, and most pages on the wiki are clearly one-person vanity stubs. 16:43:21 im thinking of like 16:43:48 the programming monads with like functions and classes 16:43:49 wtuever 16:44:47 so the only way to retrieve info from  is using requests, BeautifulSoup or something like these? 16:53:08 also idk why but im trygint o get like a ps1 or 2 onto a fucking spynet smartwatch style thing 16:54:02 wWwwW: Monads in programming are merely a special case of monads in category theory. 16:54:14 k 16:54:29 Guest67: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Esolang:Wiki_dumps 16:57:18 -!- Guest67 has quit (Quit: Client closed). 16:57:44 wWwwW: Maybe let's take a step back. What *is* a programming monad? 16:58:47 im actually not sure 16:58:51 ik what a monad is 16:58:58 but not a proglang one 17:00:24 Pretend that each language has a category given by its types. Most languages don't actually have categories this way, but we can pretend. Then a proglang monad is just a monad on that category of types. 17:02:10 wWwwW: Does that make sense? We can go with an example if you like. What's your favorite monad? 17:02:35 it does 17:03:01 cant any function be turned into a monad but making it like a class or smth 17:04:14 No. Recall that a monad is always carried by a functor. 17:04:26 -!- Guest88 has joined. 17:04:30 -!- earend1 has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 17:04:47 oh yea 17:05:29 -!- tromp has joined. 17:08:56 wWwwW: So, what's your favorite monad? 17:09:10 i dont rlly have one tbh 17:09:20 maybe the infinite monad 17:09:30 the monad of x where x is the monad of x 17:09:32 I don't know that one. What's its type signature? 17:09:40 idk 17:09:46 i like kinda just made it up 17:09:50 Okay, so you *don't* know what a monad is, then. 17:10:03 well i kinda do 17:10:15 its a monoid of the endofuctors of x 17:10:19 *functors 17:10:21 Okay, and what is a functor? 17:10:53 the like morphism(kinda) between categories whích maps elements of one category to another 17:11:56 Okay, I think I see the confusion. Think of an individual category as its own universe, its own world, separate from all of the others. A morphism *inside* a category doesn't have any meaning *outside* the category. Functors aren't morphisms in that sense. 17:12:14 yea 17:12:49 Instead, a functor is a map from one universe to another. To keep it rigid, a functor must map identity morphisms to identity morphisms, and all diagrams must commute. If something is true before applying the functor, then it is still true after applying the functor. 17:13:23 So a monad is a monoid on this universe-to-universe mapping setup, not a monoid of ordinary functions. 17:14:09 waht does is identity morphism 17:14:12 commute 17:15:23 Well, remember how identity and composition work? Let X, Y, and Z be objects in a category C, let f : X -> Y and g : Y -> Z be arrows, and let F be a functor from C to some other category D. 17:15:52 yes? 17:16:13 We want F(f) : F(X) -> F(Y) and F(g) : F(Y) -> F(Z) to compose in D to give F(f;g) : F(X) -> F(Z). And that's the same first building f;g : X -> Z in C, and then applying F. 17:16:59 That's all that I mean by "commute". It's a fairly classic diagram; check out nLab's version: https://ncatlab.org/nlab/files/functor.jpg 17:17:17 In that picture, h = f;g. 17:17:43 -!- Guest9 has joined. 17:18:29  k thx 17:19:12 Guest9: No worries. Thanks for asking and not just scraping. 17:19:22 lol 17:19:27 scraping? 17:19:36 With requests or BeautifulSoup or etc. 17:19:58 waht 17:20:05 im wwwww 17:20:15 Oh, okay. 17:20:24 lo, idk how 17:20:30 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 17:21:51 also 17:21:59 i have a esolang concept 17:22:14 and i rlly need to know if its gud cuz its going to take lots of time 17:25:38 you're unlikely to get advice unless you tell people what it is 17:25:53 i just wanted to knwo if ppl would want to hear it 17:25:57 lol 17:25:59 but um 17:26:00 its like 17:26:11 -!- Guest88 has quit (Quit: Client closed). 17:26:23 ehrre younhave a single(or 2) commands to change x y of pointer and thats it 17:26:33 maybe theres like a tape with instructions on it but idk 17:27:02 Guest9: have you seen https://esolangs.org/wiki/Nopfunge and its derivatives (e.g. https://esolangs.org/wiki/Turn_Left)? those change the direction of the pointer, not its position, but it's similar 17:27:38 yes 17:27:50 im going for a jolverine style esolang 17:27:56 it would be a 1L ig 17:28:17 also i havent read them but like 17:28:21 i know how they like 17:28:22 yea 17:30:48 is it a gud idea 17:31:06 also my goal is to teatch myself to work eith 2d compilers 17:31:14 like how to compile 2d langs 17:31:33 I think the main challenge of that language will be coming up with a command that works 17:31:42 yes 17:31:46 in the early days of esolangs.org, there were a lot of failed attempts at 1Ls 17:31:53 lol yea 17:32:23 it would prop be conditinal 17:32:28 if you're interested in the "tape with instructions idea" on it, look at https://esolangs.org/wiki/Turning_tarpit; Wunnel is an example of a 1L turning-tarpit, but you might want to take innovations from some of the others 17:32:32 FWIW there's no meaningful difference between 1D and 2D bytecode when it comes to writing a compiler. The dimensionality of bytecode is usually 1D for sanity and to map to hardware. 17:33:05 korvo yes but still 17:33:19 I suppose I should write a JIT for one of the popular 2D languages to show this off. Not sure which one to pick though. 17:33:20 ais523 im not sure bout that part 17:33:28 korvo: bytecode doesn't map to hardware anyway, it's always interpreted 17:33:35 and yes ik bout turning tarpits 17:34:11 also, Befunge was designed to be basically impossible to compile, this is why it has things like the put command, and (in Funge-98) flying instruction pointer movement 17:34:32 https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/monoid ...this concept has way too many different definitions. 17:34:36 yes 17:34:38 ais523: The original insight of JIT is that we can homomorphically map bytecode to *sequences* of machine code. From there, an online incremental compiler is mostly an engineering challenge. Check out Self's original eight-instruction VM for an example. 17:34:48 But yeah, I agree. 17:35:41 the `k` command is also something of an obstacle: when writing a post on codegolf stack exchange I eventually gave up trying to describe what "kr" does, only describing the more easily defined cases 17:36:05 but should i try? 17:36:45 Guest9: Yes, you should always be willing to try to write an interpreter. 17:37:12 to make the esolang 17:37:26 fwiw, Advance The Wheel! is by far my favourite turning tarpit – it gives the turningness a reason to exist rather than just being syntax 17:37:48 you made it i think right? 17:37:57 then ofc you would like it 17:38:17 -!- Guest9 has quit (Quit: Client closed). 17:38:21 well, yes – I have lots of esolang ideas but don't usually make them into languages unless they're good 17:38:31 yea 17:38:55 I actually dislike most of what I've made. But I suppose that that is not typical. 17:39:23 I dislike many of my early languages, I got better over time 17:39:40 Burn wouldn't be interesting if not for the whole "I forgot the spec and wrote about it anyway" thing, I think 17:40:34 YEA 17:40:37 oops sorry 17:42:15 Many folks have told me that Monte's syntax is terribly ugly. I wish to tell them that it's not only ugly, but irritating to read when writing large pattern-matches. 17:43:03 Also it has a bunch of bad ergonomics from blending Python and E syntax. In particular, it supports *both* indentation and braces for nesting and scoping. 17:43:26 Haskell does that too, and it isn't disastrous there 17:43:36 ok can i get an actual answer...like im just not sure 17:43:38 although Haskell's indentation rules are different from Pyhton's 17:43:46 sorry 17:44:12 wWwwW: writing the interpreter will probably do you good, but it'll take a lot of thought to get the language itself right 17:44:26 the nice thing is, even if you get it wrong, you can probably easily modify the interpreter to process different commands 17:44:35 so you can start that before the language is fully designed 17:45:23 wWwwW: An actual answer includes the Command Pattern, which is not only a fair bit ahead of your current knowledge but usually not taught due to controversy over design patterns. 17:45:30 k 17:45:46 it will only have one command anyway(other than NOP 17:45:47 korvo: which one is that? 17:45:56 generally speaking, I know patterns but not what they're called 17:46:05 Basically, a language is a way to *instruct* a system. So, designing a language can be done by designing the system first, and then writing down the instructions based on the things that the system can do. 17:46:16 ah, it's on Wikipedia 17:46:20 yea 17:46:36 ais523: It's got a couple names. It's the realization that a sequence of method calls against an API object is equivalent to a straight-line bytecode sequence for a machine. 17:47:44 NetHack4 uses what's basically a command pattern to communicate from windowport to engine 17:47:47 At a past job, we used this insight to design an instrumentation/monitoring tool. Users could write a string describing what they wanted to measure, and the string was interpreted as a command for a system which controls probes and gathers data. 17:47:53 well imma make it 17:48:10 although, it allows parameters to be "ask me using a callback" rather than containing specific values (although, specific values are also allowed) 17:48:25 Yep, GUIs and TUIs do commands all the time. There's an old ADT called "wid" for this; Monte's got an implementation, although the best-known one is certainly Python's Urwid. 17:48:50 wWwwW: Go for it! 17:49:00 :] 17:51:08 Looking at 1L, is it known whether a 3D workspace suffices for TCness? 17:51:23 hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 17:51:25 korvo: what 1L do you mean? 17:51:27 thats interesting 17:51:31 1L is a general term crossing a range of languages 17:51:38 yes 17:51:42 like wierd 17:51:47 and jolverine 17:52:40 huh, I just had an idea – 0L, it's a playfield full of NOPs, but you can somehow program by choosing what shape it is (it's not just a rectangle), not sure how to make that TC but it seems like an interesting idea 17:53:23 I'll have to spend a few days thinking about it before it becomes something coherent 17:53:41 oh yea it is 17:53:49 if oyu get that done 17:53:51 plz name it 17:53:54 Yeah, similarly I'm not sure how to answer your question but now I'm thinking of different 3D crystal structures. 17:54:09 nothing 17:54:14 cuz fuck it 17:55:07 I think it'd pretty much have to be called 0L to keep the pattern going 17:55:30 tru ig 17:55:34 :[ :] 17:56:00 I think I convinced myself that the crystal-structure approach is useless. The wallpaper group (and friends) are finite and I genuinely can't imagine an un- or semidecidable problem on them s.t. there's a meaningful computational problem behind it. 17:56:39 It'd end up like Seventeen or Bust, where the question is sufficiently concrete and arithmetic to be reduced to searching for solutions of polynomials. 17:57:06 This was important because otherwise I was ready to use the language name "But Is It Wallpaper?" 17:57:39 lol 17:59:00 that's a great name 17:59:21 I'm reminded of one of my old esolang ideas that I gave up on because I couldn't find a way to make it interesting 17:59:37 lol makes sense 17:59:51 Yeah. If anybody comes up with a good intersection of But Is It Art? and the wallpaper group, go for it. I'm not seeing one, though; the finiteness of this group is extremely geometric. 17:59:55 hey 18:00:01 for an array how was it now agian 18:00:06 there is a infinite, procedurally generated with fixed seed (so it's always the same) 3D space that contains a number of reflective objects, and the program is a laser where you can choose exactly where it starts and where it's pointing, then it bounces off the objects forever 18:00:10 you indexed it like x and y 18:00:14 [[String-rewriting paradigm]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144803&oldid=72234 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+405) Interpreter, categories 18:00:32 but I ended up having to make the 3D space too uninterestingly "artificial" to get close to TCness 18:00:48 [[SWCE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144804&oldid=144707 * Ractangle * (+135) /* Charecter table */ 18:01:19 [[Binary-encoded Minsky machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144805&oldid=140122 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+1) /* Encoding */ 18:01:33 Er, I should say, the finiteness of the set of wallpaper groups, combined with the simple procedures for determining which group describes the given observations, is extremely geometric. There's an entire discipline, crystallography, where people look at a picture and then tell you the corresponding group. 18:02:07 korvo you told be what the array index was so what was it? 18:02:09 I am reminded of the way that the entire set of Archimedean solids is known 18:02:26 with a couple of infinite families and then a finite number of others 18:02:38 wWwwW: Take your rectangle grid and slice it into rows. Line up the rows to make a 1D array. 18:02:51 yes' 18:06:12 [[Conditional Bee]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144806&oldid=144743 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+69) Categories 18:06:34 wWwwW: Suppose each row has s items. If you want to access row i and column j, then you'd want to access index (j * s + i) in the 1D array. Why is that? 18:06:48 [[Conditional brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144807&oldid=74791 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+21) /* See also */ Link 18:06:56 cuz like 18:07:22 the j(y) will be moved by one row every time and then we add i(x) 18:07:37 [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Ractangle * uploaded "[[File:SWCE Charecter s.png]]" 18:07:44 Great! Sounds like you understand. 18:07:53 :] 18:08:00 i just needed to make sure 18:08:14 [[SWCE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144809&oldid=144804 * Ractangle * (+88) /* Making a charecter */ 18:08:20 [[InPro]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144810&oldid=144740 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+53) Categories 18:08:36 This is the typical way of implementing large multidimensional arrays. As long as you know the depth/width/height of most of the dimensions (except one, for rows) then you can always do this same arithmetic. 18:08:40 [[SWCE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144811&oldid=144809 * Ractangle * (+49) /* Making a charecter */ 18:09:10 [[Conditional Bee]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144812&oldid=144806 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+92) Categories 18:11:02 wWwwW: Try it! Suppose that I have a 4D array, sometimes called a "tensor". I know that the strides (depth/width/height/etc.) are s, t, and u. How would I compute the index at the address i, j, k, l? 18:11:25 plz not rn im making the compiler 18:11:27 * korvo maybe going too fast 18:11:34 korvo: I've seen "tensor" used to name two unrelated things and neither is a 4D array :-D 18:11:37 Oh, cool. Have fun! 18:11:43 * korvo is going too fast lol 18:11:47 so yea 18:11:52 imma be doing tht 18:11:53 for now 18:12:03 my command will just move the pointer diagonally 18:12:11 -!- tromp has joined. 18:13:53 ais523: I think the tensors in General Relativity are 4D? But yeah, usually folks mean a 2D or 3D array destined for matrix multiplication, I guess. 18:23:43 -!- X-Scale has joined. 18:26:56 [[Pointer-based Minsky machine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144813&oldid=142459 * Ractangle * (+198) /* Implementations */ 18:29:41 -!- X-Scale has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:40:45 -!- Sgeo has joined. 18:43:58 -!- wWwwW has quit (Quit: Client closed). 18:45:34 [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ractangle * moved [[Tougne]] to [[Pycone]] 19:06:47 [[Pycone]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144816&oldid=144814 * Ractangle * (+259) 19:07:48 [[Pycone]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144817&oldid=144816 * Ractangle * (-10) /* Truth-machine */ 19:25:40 -!- Guest88 has joined. 19:30:12 -!- Guest88 has quit (Client Quit). 19:39:13 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 20:29:31 -!- tromp has joined. 20:40:37 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 21:17:57 -!- tromp has joined. 21:54:22 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 21:56:06 -!- tromp has joined. 22:19:41 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 23:58:08 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Yuroyumachi * New user account 2024-11-03: 00:06:47 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144818&oldid=144774 * Yuroyumachi * (+161) 00:13:32 . o O ( lacol knil prefix = 0:80fe::/32 ) 00:14:47 (based on a report in german that sees a provider reply to DHCPv6 requests from that subnet, in german: https://hilfe.o2online.de/dsl-kabel-glasfaser-router-software-internet-telefonie-34/dsl-ipv6-pd-dhcpv6-eventueller-fehler-seitens-o2-640621 ) 00:16:18 you can reply to a DHCP request in German? 00:16:38 I don't see why not 00:16:46 I guess it would be possible to reply to an HTTP request in German (at the expense of the browser not being able to understand the headers), maybe DHCP works the same way 00:17:44 I wrote "in german" twice because the second one was an afterthought while editing on an 80 character wide text prompt in irssi 00:18:31 it's but one of many dangers on the internet ;) 00:24:52 (The best part of that exchange is the person who says that 0:80fe::/6 should be 0:80fe::/16 instead. Counting is hard.) 00:30:59 `learn The password of the month is release incident pilot. 00:31:02 Relearned 'password': The password of the month is release incident pilot. 00:45:57 [[User:Yuroyumachi]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144819 * Yuroyumachi * (+116) I love you;) 00:46:57 [[User talk:Yuroyumachi]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144820 * Yuroyumachi * (+96) Created page with "--~~~~" 01:42:59 -!- amby has quit (Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement). 02:21:27 Guest67: also https://esolangs.org/w/api.php with docs at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Main_page ; or https://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Export 03:05:01 -!- op_4 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:05:32 -!- op_4 has joined. 04:21:41 -!- craigo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:33:40 -!- Guest60 has joined. 04:40:35 -!- Guest60 has quit (Quit: Client closed). 04:44:18 -!- X-Scale has joined. 04:52:19 [[User talk:/w/wiki/index.php/Talk:index.php/Main page]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144821&oldid=143524 * PrySigneToFry * (+50) 04:55:14 [[Basilisk]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144822&oldid=92844 * PrySigneToFry * (+313) 05:18:51 -!- wWwwW has joined. 05:45:27 im done with my prototype compiler! korvo 05:45:39 wWwwW: Cool. 05:45:50 lol 05:45:59 shall i show ye? 05:48:46 Go for it. 05:49:34 k 05:51:57 https://collab.pi7.org/GamePlayCodeLife 05:52:39 here it is 05:53:01 and it doesnt work. wtf it should 06:01:47 hey do you know why 06:01:49 i dont 06:01:51 lol 06:06:01 wWwwW: Fun. Looks like a 2D system. 06:06:12 lol yea 06:17:03 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:20:43 also ais523 made any progress on the L0 idea? 06:34:27 -!- X-Scale has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:37:38 -!- tromp has joined. 06:42:14 i can get my interpreter to work so i give up 06:48:06 -!- X-Scale has joined. 07:46:28 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 07:47:48 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:47:49 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 08:07:45 -!- X-Scale has quit (Quit: Client closed). 08:22:34 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 08:24:26 god i have the best and worst idea for an esolang 08:28:16 [[Sucks]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144823&oldid=144713 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+21) /* Short form */ 08:46:40 [[Talk:Macro]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144824&oldid=140802 * Yayimhere * (+89) 08:57:30 [[User talk:/w/wiki/index.php/Talk:index.php/Main page]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144825&oldid=144821 * Ractangle * (-9) 08:59:29 [[Pycone]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144826&oldid=144817 * Ractangle * (+0) /* Truth-machine */ 08:59:44 [[Pycone]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144827&oldid=144826 * Ractangle * (+0) /* Truth-machine */ 09:46:18 -!- Noisytoot has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:58:32 [['Python' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144828&oldid=144177 * Ractangle * (+29) /* CATEGORIES */ 10:11:52 [[Pycone]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144829&oldid=144827 * Ractangle * (+0) /* Truth-machine */ 11:05:35 [[Talk:'Python' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144830&oldid=143384 * Ractangle * (+180) 11:28:56 [['Python' is not recognized]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144831 * Ractangle * (+437) Created page with "''''Python' is not recognized''' is a variant of [['Python' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.]] by [[User:Ractangle]] ==Syntax== {{cd|;}} stops the program since the code is a one-liner {{cd|:}} ta 11:41:07 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:55:05 [['Python' is not recognized]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144832&oldid=144831 * Ractangle * (-23) /* Syntax */ 11:57:28 [['Python' is not recognized]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144833&oldid=144832 * Ractangle * (+142) /* Syntax */ 11:57:42 [['Python' is not recognized]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144834&oldid=144833 * Ractangle * (-5) /* Syntax */ 11:59:02 [['Python' is not recognized]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144835&oldid=144834 * Ractangle * (+109) /* Syntax */ 12:01:17 [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144836&oldid=144376 * Ractangle * (-327) /* Programm forms */ 12:01:56 -!- leah2 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:02:13 [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144837&oldid=144836 * Ractangle * (-166) /* Esolangs */ 12:02:53 -!- leah2 has joined. 12:03:57 [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144838&oldid=144837 * Ractangle * (+3) 12:04:15 [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144839&oldid=144838 * Ractangle * (-1) /* Esolangs */ 12:06:13 [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144840&oldid=144839 * Ractangle * (-3) 12:06:45 [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144841&oldid=144840 * Ractangle * (-28) /* Esolangs */ 12:07:04 [[None,]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144842&oldid=135864 * Ractangle * (-118) 12:09:52 -!- tromp has joined. 12:10:10 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:16:09 -!- wWwwW has quit (Quit: Client closed). 12:27:56 [[User:ATProtogen/Sandbox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144843&oldid=143966 * ATProtogen * (-3540) Blanked the page 13:13:30 [[Joke Page]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144844&oldid=116188 * None1 * (+42) /* Examples */ 13:43:14 -!- X-Scale has joined. 13:47:02 -!- Everything has joined. 13:52:34 -!- leah2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:15:32 -!- Noisytoot has joined. 14:26:22 -!- Thelie has joined. 14:35:50 -!- leah2 has joined. 15:17:49 -!- FreeFull has quit. 15:28:09 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:35:03 -!- X-Scale has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:46:37 -!- lynndotpy has quit (Quit: bye bye). 15:47:13 -!- X-Scale has joined. 15:47:31 -!- lynndotpy has joined. 15:55:13 -!- tromp has joined. 16:04:31 -!- X-Scale has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 16:04:53 [[FlipFlop]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144845&oldid=144241 * Ractangle * (-257) better implementation 16:05:11 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 16:06:21 [[FlipFlop]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144846&oldid=144845 * Ractangle * (+6) /* Implementation */ 16:10:21 [[FlipFlop]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144847&oldid=144846 * Ractangle * (+55) /* Examples? */ 16:13:44 [[+++]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144848&oldid=144352 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+3) /* Calculator */ 16:15:12 [['Python' is not recognized]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144849&oldid=144835 * Ractangle * (+23) 16:17:14 [[Deadfish with gotos and input]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144850&oldid=142071 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+297) /* Programs */ 16:20:33 [[Deadfish with gotos and input]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144851&oldid=144850 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-45) /* Hello, World! */ 16:21:32 [[Deadfish with gotos and input]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144852&oldid=144851 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+0) /* Hello, World! */ 16:21:42 [[Deadfish with gotos and input]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144853&oldid=144852 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-1) /* Hello, World! */ 16:21:46 -!- wWwwW has joined. 16:22:02 -!- X-Scale has joined. 16:30:21 -!- tromp has joined. 16:53:38 -!- Everything has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:55:30 -!- Everything has joined. 16:59:05 -!- Thelie has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 16:59:59 -!- Thelie has joined. 17:10:49 -!- wWwwW has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:11:30 -!- wWwwW has joined. 17:13:39 somebody throw a concept at me im so bored i want to make it into an esolang 17:15:16 Lojban. 17:15:32 Lojban? 17:15:47 Give Lojban some semantics. Or pick another loglang. Or another englang. Or another auxlang. 17:15:58 lol 17:16:01 Warning: it could take more than a day. 17:16:10 oh thats ok 17:16:30 I've been working on it for like 5yrs and I'm only about 15% done. 17:16:47 oh that long 17:17:01 Meh. I should be done before I die. 17:17:11 then no thx im like idk lol' 17:17:43 Suit yourself. Some folks are even more ambitious; I don't think Knuth will finish his books before he dies. 17:17:57 anything else? 17:18:34 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:19:20 hello ais523!! 17:20:32 -!- Noisytoot has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:21:06 any progress on L0? 17:22:08 wWwwW: most of the links on https://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Yayimhere#esolangs represents an opportunity to improve the page, adding an interpreter and working examples. And probably modifications to the languages to make them actually do something. For example, https://esolangs.org/wiki/Leadfish has no way to grow the stack. 17:22:20 wWwwW: you mean 0L? no, I was focusing on something else 17:22:28 k 17:22:44 sometimes I have hobbies other than esolangs 17:22:54 makes sense 17:23:22 int-e for interpterers im stupid, and mostly rn ik want to make smth 17:29:49 like an esolang 17:41:39 gimme a concept plz 17:42:34 wWwwW: so over the last couple of weeks I have been trying to implement a terminal 17:42:43 and? 17:42:43 I don't think terminal control codes are TC but there are some interesting things they can do 17:42:58 yes and? thats it? 17:43:23 it's the sort of thing where I think "so what is the computational power of this?", but it's hard to tell because the standards are hard to read 17:43:33 and nobody seems to implement them properly anyway 17:43:37 lol 17:45:16 anyway, that's the sort of thing that sometimes inspires an esolang, although it didn't with me 17:45:25 [[JS-CODE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144854&oldid=136902 * Ractangle * (-5) Removed redirect to [[Waretel BASIC]] 17:45:33 wWwwW: but why are you designing programming languages if you can't program :-/ 17:45:42 i can 17:45:43 I think it did with someone else, there was a serious attempt to use terminal control codes as a portable format for representing word-processed documents, but it didn't catch on 17:45:44 i just 17:45:45 [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144855&oldid=144228 * Ractangle * (+70) 17:45:52 never get my interpteters to work 17:48:39 Start with something simpler? I dunno, do a naive Game of Life implementation. You basically don't need parsing, just loops and arrays. 17:48:53 no like 17:49:05 its to the level were it makes no sense for it to not work 17:49:14 Brainfuck is a nice target for very basic parsing (you need to match brackets) 17:49:28 yea 17:49:28 [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144856&oldid=144855 * Ractangle * (+10) /* Stuff to continue */ 17:49:35 idk how to do parsing and i never like 17:49:37 it just never works 17:49:54 Sorry but if it never works, then you don't know how to do it. 17:50:03 int-e: "idk" means "i don't know" I think 17:50:04 but like 17:50:14 everything 17:50:21 doesntr work 17:50:27 the other code i do does 17:50:31 but ionterprters never 17:50:32 idk how 17:50:52 ais523: Ah I did misread. (But I do know what "idk" means, the mistake was elsewhere, probably skipped a word or two.) 17:50:55 I actually hate the way that it's so hard to generate basic parsers in most languages, and the ones where it's easy normally steer you into inefficient and broken ways of doing it 17:51:27 this should be a solved problem by now (it was almost a solved problem decades ago, but we seem to have been going backwards since?) 17:51:50 i only know python for now 17:51:53 and its just hell 17:51:59 I have great ideas for improving on it, but not the mental energy to act on them 17:52:23 [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144857&oldid=144856 * Ractangle * (+100) /* Stuff to continue */ 17:52:27 -!- wWwwW has quit (Quit: Client closed). 17:52:54 like, I think a good easy-to-use parser-generator that integrates directly into the languages people use (without needing a separate build tool), and produces efficient and high-quality parsers with good error messages, would be really valuable 17:53:09 right now the common wisdom is to write parsers by hand, which is ridiculous given how good computers should be at doing that 17:54:56 It seems that people love parser combinators (despite their efficiency problems)... https://github.com/csams/parsr/blob/master/parsr/examples/arith.py 17:55:19 (One of several of those for Python; I haven't used it.) 17:55:26 parser combinators are bad in two ways: a) inefficiency, b) if you write an ambiguous grammar they don't notice and will just pick a parse arbitrarily 17:55:41 meaning that nothing is automatically catching bugs in your parser 17:55:49 or, indeed, in the grammar 17:56:11 it is very easy to write an ambiguous grammar by mistake 17:56:43 and this is important for programming language creators, when designing their language 17:57:11 a parser-generator that verifies there are no ambiguities can be used to help debug your language specification, by ensuring you haven't accidentally created a situation where the same byte sequence means two different things 17:57:30 (although ideally to make this work, there shouldn't be a separate lexer, in case there are lexing ambiguities like the whole 0.0 thing in Rust) 17:57:47 or the a+++b thing in C 17:57:51 [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144858&oldid=144857 * Ractangle * (+179) /* Stuff to continue */ 17:59:03 or the Type> thing in C++, which actually came up quite a lot 17:59:26 (I think Rust deals with that one by treating >> as a single token but allowing it to close two nesting levels of generics) 18:00:17 Wait, what formalism are people thinking when they say "parser combinators"? I've seen a few. I'm guessing that this is recursive-descent combinators? 18:00:35 korvo: normally it's backtracking combinators 18:00:51 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Malbolge is NOT enough hard!! * New user account 18:00:54 ais523: Sure, those are definitely not efficient. 18:01:27 which end up equivalent to recursive-descent if you apply them to an LL grammar, but typically people who use combinators don't care about the various types of grammar 18:02:25 Meh. I care plenty about the grammar! But I care even more about getting the parser implemented. And usually there's at least one grammar, the grammar of grammars, which requires a bootstrapping parser. 18:02:32 the problem, of course, is that this means that backtracking parser combinators have wildly varying performance characteristics based on something that isn't obvious from the source code, and in many simple cases they do end up fast 18:03:02 Like, by the time people start caring about combinators, they've usually seen the bigger problem: writing an informal grammar is easy, but writing a formal grammar that can be mechanically turned into a parser is a PITA. 18:03:07 korvo: well, the thing about the bootstrapping parser is that it's always the same, so it can easily be shipped as a library, maybe part of a language's standard library 18:03:23 ais523: Yes, but that doesn't solve *my* problems as a language implementor. 18:03:52 Like, yes, for everybody else, here is a library I've provided. But what library does Pagliacci use? 18:04:01 I've actually started writing such a bootstrapping parser over the past couple of weeks, so that when I have the mental bandwidth to work on my parser-generator I will have a way to bootstrap it 18:04:48 (I'm using POSIX yacc for the bootstrapping) 18:04:54 I remember seeing ANTLR for the first time and realizing that there are dozens, if not hundreds of us, throwing our heads against this problem and coming back with nothing except RSI. 18:05:37 only one person has to do this once – maybe it'll be me when I'm in a better mental state, and then all the language implementors can just use that solution 18:06:10 yacc got close, its main issue is that the way it does precedence is overly tied to its own internals 18:06:38 also it has no convenient way to do lists, and needs a separate lexer 18:06:46 Well, the one person was Ian Piumerta and the one system was OMeta. 18:07:49 I still prefer it over things like ANTLR because of the computational complexity (yacc, and Bison on LR grammars, are linear-time; Bison on arbitrary grammars is O(n²) for unambiguous inputs and O(n³) for ambiguous inputs, which I think are the best known computational classes) 18:08:31 Sure. So is e.g. Marpa, which claims to merely be a fixed version of Earley's work. 18:08:44 hmm, does ANTLR detect ambiguous grammars? (obviously it's uncomputable to determine whether a grammar is ambiguous, but an ambiguity detector with false positives is fine in practice) 18:09:09 I've been collecting weird grammars, mostly written myself, as parser generator tests 18:09:34 the grammars which are hard to check for ambiguity are very unnatural and don't look like the sort of thing anyone would write in a language spec 18:11:00 When Allen Short wrote Parsley (for Python), we realized that Parsley could be extended to tree transformations and wrote about half of SML in it before we realized what had happened. The library Parsimonious, built on Parsley's internals, doesn't have any of that at all. 18:11:13 I think it may always be the case that a grammar with uncomputable ambiguity checking always has some substring of input tokens that can be interpreted as opening/closing a different number of nesting levels (or in a different direction) depending on the context 18:11:16 Which makes me wonder whether something like Prolog-style grammars were actually a decent option. 18:12:20 well, there are good reasons to generate parsers in an inherently linear-time language (like a linear-bounded automaton, but for time rather than memory) 18:12:36 I don't think it's possible to implement ML or Prolog in something like that 18:12:45 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 18:13:47 like, to me the problem is not "how do I get a working parser" but "how do I compile this parser description into something that runs in linear time" 18:14:37 and that requires trying to find a powerful linear-time language to compile into; something like LR(1) is too restrictive in practice 18:14:53 but it's possible to do, say, LR(*) (i.e. LR with regex lookahead) in linear time, which was fun to work out 18:15:11 Ah. I put combinators over LPEG for that. LPEG started life as a Lua PEG runtime but morphed into a bytecode VM, and there's a nice homomorphism from parser combinators to LPEG bytecode. 18:15:48 It's easy to show that LPEG bytecode can't jump too far backwards, and from there to show that the machine only eats each input character at most once. 18:15:59 -!- X-Scale has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:16:07 (you compile the regex into a state machine that takes the input in reverse order, run over the input backwards to annotate each input token/byte with the appropriate regex state, then use the token/state pairs as LR(1) tokens) 18:16:38 I don't like PEG because it is too easy to write a grammar that doesn't mean what you thought it would mean or what it looks like it would mean 18:17:35 BTW when using compiler frameworks this usually isn't an open question. To write parsers in RPython, I'm basically obligated to use RPLY, an RPython version of Baezley's PLY library. And if my grammar is nasty, like recently with Nix, then I get to write my own Earley setup. 18:18:02 PEG's just CFG but all choices are ordered. If it's not clear how to order each choice, then the original CFG might not be unambiguous. 18:18:31 well, "A / B" in a PEG means "either an A, or a B that does not start with an A" 18:19:53 so a grammar like «S: X | Y; X: 'd' | 'd' 'e' 'f'; Y: 'd' 'e' | 'd' 'e' 'f' 'g'» can't be translated to a PEG because there is a valid X that starts with a Y and a valid Y that starts with an X 18:20:31 also, most popular PEG parsing algorithms are linear-time but with horrible constant factors 18:20:41 And you're not a fan of `S1: X / Y; S2: Y / X; S: S1 / S2` I guess? 18:20:59 Which is usually expressed via PEG's "unlimited" lookahead, but same idea. 18:21:15 I didn't realise you could do that, and am now trying to figure out the implications 18:21:54 PEG just insists that you not be allowed to provisionally accept an input. Either it's acceptable now, and we know which production it matches, or it's not acceptable now and we know that no production matches. 18:22:20 It's just Earley without the bookkeeping and non-determinism. 18:22:48 actually I don't think that even works: a Y that starts with an X is not an S1, and although it is an S2, it starts with an S1 and thus it is not acceptable for S 18:23:14 so this just collapses down to be equivalent to S: X / Y 18:26:38 Assuming X and Y have no lookaheads, yeah. 18:28:56 so yes, I'm not a fan of it because it doesn't do what it looks like it's meant to do, or indeed anything useful at all :-D 18:28:58 -!- Noisytoot has joined. 18:29:40 Anyway, I think that Marpa's author isn't great at writing docs, but he does seem to have correctly cracked the issue of Earley parsers not always performing well on unambiguous grammars, and maybe the correct answer is to implement Marpa for popular languages. 18:30:31 Also CYK is asymptotically what's desired, although its runtime constants are terrible since it can't predict in advance how much space will be needed. 18:31:04 Bison uses GLR, which is asymptotically as good as Earley 18:31:18 (and runs in O(n) time when the grammar happens to be LR(1)) 18:33:45 oh, that reminds me: I found a really nice formalism of parser-generator output, as repeated regex replacement (the operation that Perl calls s/regex/string/, where the string is a fixed string, although it runs on terminal/nonterminal mixes rather than character strings) – you express the parser as a set of mutually-exclusive regexes 18:34:39 err, not quite s/regex/string/, the regex can match before and after the replaced portion 18:34:45 so it's more like /regex/; $1 = string 18:35:01 (I'm not sure if you can do that in Perl but you probably can, it's that sort of language) 18:35:26 `perl-e $_ = "abcdef"; /b(cd)e/; $1 = "g"; print 18:35:29 Modification of a read-only value attempted at -e line 1. 18:35:33 oh bleh, you can't? 18:36:32 with most styles of parser it is possible to define a value for each terminal and non-terminal – if you state that replacements must reduce the total value of the string, that proves the parser runs in linear time 18:37:21 and it is normally possible to do that except with nonterminals that match the empty string, those have to be given zero value, but if you make a rule that two copies of the same zero-value nonterminal can't appear without something with positive value in between, that also proves the parser runs in linear time 18:37:34 err, negative value, not zero 18:38:18 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Impossible Esolang Creator * New user account 18:47:44 [['Python' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144859&oldid=144828 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+77) See also, categories 18:49:30 [['Python' is not recognized]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144860&oldid=144849 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+106) Categories 19:01:55 -!- tromp has joined. 19:12:13 oh neat, I found a terminal control code that's implemented consistently by every terminal I tested, but in a way that contradicts the relevant standard 19:12:26 (the standard looked wrong when I read it – seems all the terminals agree) 19:13:24 it is ESC [ number @, which moves the remainder of the line number positions to the right/forwards – the terminals and standard agree on that, but the standard also moves the cursor to the start of the line for some reason (even though that isn't useful), whereas the terminals leave it alone 19:18:15 -!- craigo has joined. 19:23:39 [['Python' is not recognized]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144861&oldid=144860 * Ractangle * (+50) /* Syntax */ 19:23:58 [['Python' is not recognized]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144862&oldid=144861 * Ractangle * (+26) /* Syntax */ 19:27:43 [['Python' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144863&oldid=144859 * Ractangle * (+121) /* narcissist */ 19:28:14 [['Python' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144864&oldid=144863 * Ractangle * (+47) /* Computational class */ 19:29:07 [['Python' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144865&oldid=144864 * Ractangle * (+16) /* Computational class */ 19:35:01 [['Python' is not recognized]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144866&oldid=144862 * Ractangle * (-35) /* Syntax */ 19:45:23 [['Python' is not recognized]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144867&oldid=144866 * Ractangle * (+54) /* Syntax */ 19:47:45 [['Python' is not recognized]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144868&oldid=144867 * Ractangle * (+47) /* Examples */ 19:48:46 [['Python' is not recognized]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144869&oldid=144868 * Ractangle * (+109) /* Unfinished Truth-machine */ 19:52:51 [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Ractangle * uploaded "[[File:The only screenshot of the JS-CODE thing.jpg]]" 19:54:07 [[JS-CODE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144871&oldid=144854 * Ractangle * (+191) 19:54:26 [[JS-CODE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144872&oldid=144871 * Ractangle * (+14) /* Syntax */ 20:22:23 -!- Thelie has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 20:25:34 [[JS-CODE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144873&oldid=144872 * Ractangle * (+72) /* Syntax */ 20:25:47 [[JS-CODE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144874&oldid=144873 * Ractangle * (+11) /* Syntax */ 20:28:35 -!- Sgeo has joined. 20:34:21 and sometimes you know the grammar has some ambiguities, and you want to specify how those few are resolved, and prove that there are no other ambiguities, and prove that a specific way of writing the parse that you decided isn't allowed in an ambiguous case can be rewritten with some simple workaround which parses correctly. it gets complicated. 20:35:53 [[JS-CODE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144875&oldid=144874 * Ractangle * (+182) 20:37:31 ais523: in perl, s/before\Kbetween(?=after)/replacement/ replaces just the middle part 20:38:43 alternately you can use captures like s/(before)between(after)/${1}replacement$2/ 20:40:20 [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144876&oldid=144841 * Ractangle * (+38) 20:42:12 [[Xuki]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144877&oldid=144586 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Syntax */ 20:42:26 [[Xuki]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144878&oldid=144877 * Ractangle * (+17) /* Syntax */ 20:42:30 though IME writing anything using repeated replacements like this correctly can be tricky 20:42:40 [[Xuki]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144879&oldid=144878 * Ractangle * (+0) /* A+B Problem */ 20:43:33 [[Xuki]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144880&oldid=144879 * Ractangle * (+5) /* A+B Problem */ 20:44:09 [[Xuki]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144881&oldid=144880 * Ractangle * (+34) /* Syntax */ 20:45:09 it's the same problem as with parsers, the match will be ambiguous and will not replace what you wanted to replace 20:45:32 b_jonas: I'm not intending it as something to write by hand, but as a computational model 20:45:58 [[Fortuludmium]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144882&oldid=142620 * Ractangle * (-173) 20:46:45 in particular, it models both LR(1) and LL(*) correctly (because they in effect use a finite state automaton to determine the point where the replacement ends or starts respectively, and you can compile that into a regex) 20:47:20 and there's a linear-time implementation which basically gives you a generic linear-time parser backend that isn't tied to particular linear-time algorithms 20:47:52 right. the one piece of good news is that IIRC 64-bit perl supports characters with codes up to 2**63 in character strings, so you can encode your terminals and perl regexes will treat them as single characters. 20:47:59 s/terminals/nonterminals/ 20:48:55 of course you might have to make sure that they don't occur in your input 20:48:58 why do you need 64 bits for that? a) there's plenty of room between 0x10FFFF and 0xFFFFFFFF, b) there are private-use planes that you could use for nonterminals if you don't need them for something else 20:49:40 [[*python]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144883&oldid=144395 * Ractangle * (+6) /* Errors */ 20:50:34 also it doesn't really help with regexps that they're single characters, so you only really need a few characters that don't occur in your input 20:51:42 your parser generator may care about exactly how many symbols it looks ahead; perl regexps don't 20:52:00 well my backend model doesn't care either 20:53:01 [[*python]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144884&oldid=144883 * Ractangle * (+34) /* Truth-machine */ 20:57:06 the brand of the light bulbs above me is "Trixline", so I almost have trilimes above me 21:05:16 Depending on the input format, you might be able to use all codes greater than 0xFF (or maybe 0x7E) too, if the input handling supports that 21:06:43 [[C-like language]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144885&oldid=144396 * Ractangle * (+2) /* Hello, world! */ 21:06:52 (That is, if it deals with individual bytes. It is probably usually more useful for a regular expression to deal with individual bytes instead of UTF-8 if you do not need to handle non-ASCII characters in matching; that will also then work with other character sets than Unicode too, without needing to do any conversion.) 21:07:21 (If your input is UTF-16 or UTF-32, or another multibyte code, then the higher character codes are more useful for directly representing character codes.) 21:08:08 (Furthermore, what if you do not have a 64-bit computer?) 21:10:06 [[: ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144886&oldid=142919 * Ractangle * (+84) /* Syntax */ 21:10:26 [[: ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144887&oldid=144886 * Ractangle * (+6) /* A+B Problem */ 21:11:33 [[MarkupL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144888&oldid=144160 * Ractangle * (-6) /* MarkupL add-ons */ 21:11:52 -!- Everything has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:12:25 -!- Everything has joined. 21:13:12 I thought the character codes were limited to 32-bits, but now you say it can use 63-bits. I think that would waste more memory but also can be useful for reasons you describe and for other reasons (e.g. in case anyone actually uses 63-bit character codes, but that seems unlikely to me) 21:20:59 a Perl string acts like an array of integers that represent character codes, but is internally stored using one of two compression schemes, one which works only when all the integers are small, and the other of which has a strong resemblance to UTF-8 21:21:32 but, the details of the compression are supposed to be entirely invisible to the programmer (there are a few historical-reasons bugs that can expose them and a couple of APIs to expose them intentionally_ 21:21:52 O, then it won't waste memory, but it will make the execution more complicated so might be less efficient for time even if the space is efficient. 21:28:30 -!- Thelie has joined. 21:41:25 ais523: also I still find the idea of no separate lexer stage strange, because separate lexing rules is how I find natural to think of languages. the lexer is there because I don't want a keyboard as huge as the number of possible tokens, so I type all by the most frequent tokens as multiple characters. yes, C++'s special lexer exceptions where >> and <: are sometimes not matched leftmost-longest as a 21:41:31 token is an argument, but it's not strong enough to discard the whole idea of a lexer. 21:42:36 also you usually want to attach a pointer to many of those nonterminals to store a parse tree or some other intermediate compiled representation, so just a bunch of s/// substitution rules could be hard to use. 21:47:36 -!- sprocket has joined. 21:47:53 -!- sprock has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:58:10 b_jonas: I've been having a lot of fun figuring out how to optimise out the intermediate representation, or at least change it to something more efficient 21:59:13 my current plan is to parse into reverse-Polish, then parse the resulting reverse-Polish string again backwards (which is LL(1)), which should be much faster than building a parse tree in applications that don't need one 22:00:09 and the reason I don't like the idea of a separate lexer is that often lexing is context-dependent (to the extent that POSIX yacc has to precisely define the parser's evaluation order to let it interact with the lexer correctly, which in turn makes a lot of interesting optimisations impossible) 22:01:00 given that a lexer can easily be expressed in the format typically used for parsers, it makes so much more sense for the parser and lexer to be in the same source file and same automaton – that way you get lexer context-dependence for free, and can check for ambiguities across lexer and parser together 22:02:16 fwiw, I think it makes sense for both lexers *and parsers* to have a way to explicitly allow/ban particular things in the right context 22:02:24 e.g. to say "an identifier cannot be followed by a letter" 22:02:39 as a way to precisely describe disambiguation rules 22:04:55 Maybe *this* is what tagless-final encoding is for. The parse tree only exists as an intermediate type which is reliably optimized out of the resulting call graph. 22:05:44 I know catern has used this. They're also fairly opinionated, so it's worth being skeptical. Ditto with Oleg, who I think is the origin of the name "tagless-final". 22:07:02 On lexers: they can increase the effective power of a parser, right? e.g. Python lexers emit INDENT and DEDENT tokens, letting a PEG parse an otherwise-context-sensitive grammar. 22:08:33 korvo: only by increasing the effective power of a lexer 22:08:59 finite-state machines can't do indent/dedent either, so if you are extending a lexer to be able to do that, you could alternatively extend a parser to be able to do that 22:09:27 which might be important if the indent/dedent behaviour was different in two different places in the same input (imagine a parser for mixed Python and Haskell) 22:15:17 -!- X-Scale has joined. 22:16:11 ais523: Oh, good point. I guess "power" is an overloaded word. Like, Python can be lexed in linear time (because every token piece is recognized by a regex), so it doesn't raise the practical time complexity of an amortized-linear PEG parser. 22:16:33 Maybe the Chomsky hierarchy is not that useful? 22:16:49 2 and 3 seem to be the only practically useful parts 22:17:34 because they put restrictions on things that are often possible to comply with and give you nice properties that can be exploited to, say, write linear-time parsers 22:17:38 CFGs do feel like some sort of natural ceiling. And I guess we should be glad that recognition is in P, cubic even! 22:19:59 in practice recognition is quadratic, it only becomes cubic if you the input exposes an ambiguity in the grammar, at which point you could reasonably reject it (thus, the cubic case is only useful when using dynamic precedence resolution rules) 22:20:36 ...Maybe it's because of applicative trees. Concrete parses for CFGs always yield a well-behaved rooted tree. For CSGs I don't know what we get; like trees with a per-forest context? And eventually when we get to TMs we have traces of machine actions. 22:24:09 "if the indent/dedent behaviour was different in two different places in the same input" => it kind of is, newlines are ignores in string literals, blank lines after a backslash continuation marker, and most interestingly inside parenthesis of any kind, so you have to recognize balanced parenthesis 22:25:00 b_jonas: ooh, so Python's lexer has to do paren matching, which is the standard example of something that belongs in a parser and not a lexer 22:25:59 the CFG can ignore indent/dedent inside of expressions 22:26:04 Yep, Python descendants are required to not just measure indent depth but also keep a bracket/paren stack. And modern Python also includes E-style quasiliterals, which require the lexer to keep a QL piece stack. 22:26:18 But I don't know what Python *does*. 22:26:35 oh 22:26:37 I haven't looked at ECMAScript's specification in a while. I wonder how they added "template literals", their E-style QLs. 22:26:43 Some programs will do some of the things together for various reasons, and for some programs, the result of the parser could control the working of lexer as well as other way around 22:26:55 sorry, that doesn't work, it indeed has to be done by the lexer 22:27:13 What is "E-style quasiliterals"? 22:27:43 hiding context-sensitive stuff in lexer + postprocessing after parsing is standard anyway 22:28:06 The most egregious example is dealing with identifiers and scope. 22:28:08 ais523: you can imagine it as four or fivr stages instead of just a lexer and parser: first you lex most tokens including find the end of single-line or multi-line literals and single-line comments, then you match parenthesis (of all kind), then you find the newlines that matter and mark ident and dedent tokens, then you do the rest 22:28:11 Rust lets you do things like let a = 4; let b = 5; println!("a = {a} and b = {b}"); 22:28:38 but I know how it does that, identifier ! ( … ) runs arbitrary code on what's inside the parentheses, which has a rule that the parentheses have to match and not many other rules 22:28:54 E-style is an extension of what Perl had; you can do `this kind of $variable interpolation`, but also `pattern-match @piece by @piece with backtracking` and e`def embed { any.legal($ast) }` as a splice. 22:28:55 and that code returns a parse tree that gets inserted at that point in the source 22:29:46 int-e: I agree that identifiers/scope is effectively a major part of parsing that parser formalisms gloss over 22:29:54 and have been wondering about how to fit it directly into a parsing automaton 22:31:26 In PostScript, a {} block is a single token that can contain other tokens. The // prefix makes that the value of the token is whatever the following name refers to at the time of being tokenized, rather than the value of the token being the name itself (which it is if the // prefix is omitted). 22:31:48 attribute grammars try to do that kind of things, right? 22:32:40 (AIUI they *embrace* the CFG approximation but try to incorporate post-processing inside the grammar in a formal way.) 22:33:07 ais523: In LPEG I found myself wanting a GENSYM bytecode. I also needed to gensym when doing miniKanren and couldn't find a way to do it. 22:35:41 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 22:37:05 ais523: also python parsing runs into the problem where a variable or tuple constructor call can appear syntactically either in an expression/rvalue or a pattern/lvalue, they mean different things in the two syntactical contexts, and you pretty much have to do the whole parsing blindly before you can determine which occurrances are in pattern/lvalue context. 22:38:39 also there's a third context, patterns for case statements, which you *can* recognize in advance, but they're somewhat similar to ordinary patterns/lvalues, so you have to figure out how not to duplicate the shared part of syntax and semantics 22:39:21 b_jonas: what does the right-context look like, to make the same left-context into either an expression or pattern? 22:39:28 oh, "=" probably 22:39:40 …I have suddenly realised why Rust says "if let" and not just "if" 22:40:01 it's to let whatever comes after "let" unambiguously parse as a pattern 22:41:53 Yep, same with E "def", ECMAScript "let" and "const", Monte "object". Not Python "class" though; they just required INDENT first! 22:42:21 ais523: there's like ten different productions for lvalue context. assignment statement `lvalue = rvalue`, for loop head `for lvalue in rvalue`, with statement head, expect clause head, after `for` in an array/iterator/dictionary display eg. `[rvalue for lvalue in rvalue]`, and probably more that I forget 22:42:38 and of course inside a tuple or array in lvalue context too 22:43:51 I've seen this same problem when making one of geo or scan by the way 22:44:30 this reminded me of something else: I realised recently that assignment operations are "backwards" and should place the variable being assigned to on the right, so that the statement reads in order 22:44:53 «e = a.b().c().d()» makes you jump back to the start of the statement after reaching the end 22:45:33 (I realised a bit less recently that pointer dereference should be postfix, for the same reason – it is in Pascal, but prefix in C for some reason, which is why it needs a separate -> syntax) 22:45:36 ais523: Rust also does the C thing where `a = b` is an expression. 22:45:56 int-e: sure, but that isn't mutually exclusive with pattern matches 22:46:19 there's no reason why (x, y) = (1, 2) couldn't assign to two different variables and return the same tuple that was matched against 22:46:27 well the semantics of if a = false and if let a = false are quite different 22:46:51 ah, I see 22:47:15 the former cares about the boolean value assigned to a, the latter about whether the assignment was possible 23:06:04 ais523: in rust that doesn't really work because it would have to copy x and y which isn't always possible 23:06:31 no, it'd have to copy the tuple 23:06:34 which can be done if it's Copy 23:06:52 yes, and copying the tuple has to copy its members 23:07:14 but x and y aren't the members, 1 and 2 are 23:07:33 most languages with chained assignments return the value being assigned, not the variable being assigned to (Perl is weird in that respect) 23:07:43 right, 1 and 2 are of copiable types 23:08:05 I feel like we're agreeing with each other? 23:08:14 also is it true that BASIC dialects differ in what `LET X = Y = 0` means? 23:08:45 it wouldn't surprise me, but OTOH I'd expect it to be a parse error in many of them 23:13:10 -!- Everything has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:25:49 has anyone done something like this? https://discuss.kotlinlang.org/t/an-alternative-to-checked-exceptions-that-actually-works-for-catching-bugs/23079 23:26:34 I'd /expect/ it to compare Y and 0 and assign X a value based on that. 23:33:52 Soni: Have you seen Elm or its offspring, like Derw or Roc? They propose to take one of Standard ML's memes seriously: well-typed programs *cannot* go wrong. 23:35:08 lol 23:35:14 I wouldn't recommend *using* Elm, due to serious implementation issues, but it's good food for thought. 23:35:42 maybe if it had global typestate 23:36:02 Like, what kinds of faults can be caught anyway? What does it mean to have an unexpected fault coming through your call frame? 23:37:20 do you know about global typestate? 23:37:39 My language Cammy is pursuing the same meme from a different angle, via OCaml's tradition. But I gave up on exceptions entirely; a Cammy expression *cannot* go wrong, and type failures can only happen at the very beginning and end of the program, when the caller makes a mistake. 23:40:32 I don't know that exact phrase. Searching gives me this paper: https://arxiv.org/abs/2107.13101 I know the typestate pattern; I'm more interested in structural approaches, but it seems alright for a nominal approach. 23:42:02 At that point, though, I'd argue that the language should add algebraic laws instead of putting more work into the typechecker. It'd be a better investment that covers the same theorem-proving territory. 23:43:12 global typestate is an approach to solving signal safety 23:43:38 we would like to see global typestate in rust, and deprecation/removal of existing rust globals 23:43:49 but anyway 23:44:46 that paper appears to be about global analysis of typestate, so... slightly different issue 23:46:01 -!- amby has joined. 23:48:54 (is "deprecating globals" esoteric enough for #esolangs ?) 23:56:36 I would think that in BASIC, "LET X = Y = 0" would set X to -1 if the value of Y is zero or 0 if nonzero, although different implementations might do differently 23:57:24 A program that I had partially written and am continuing to do, is converting a custom ASCII-text-based format that I had made up into DER format, and the parsing in that program has its own way of working; e.g. the tokenizer only reads the beginning of a string and the rest of the string literal is parsed by the function that encodes it. 23:57:39 Which escape codes are allowed in a string literal depends on its type, and there are other stuff as well 23:59:07 Soni: Signal safety is definitely esoteric. Have you considered not doing signals instead? 23:59:48 korvo: but where's the fun in that :D 2024-11-04: 00:05:10 imagine being the first programming language to provide signal-safety while still having fully-featured signal handling 00:05:20 -!- Thelie has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 00:05:31 (and being a pain to use, but we digress) 00:09:20 -!- X-Scale has quit (Quit: Client closed). 00:09:25 I don't want to handle signals. I want to politely ignore their existence. 00:09:44 Or, if I have an event loop, then I want signals to politely wait their turn. 00:18:18 oh okay so you're not into challenges, got it 00:19:35 -!- X-Scale has joined. 00:28:57 Indeed, I think that secure distributed computing should not be difficult. As a special case, I think that single-user single-machine computing should not be difficult. 00:29:51 -!- amby has quit (Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement). 00:36:13 -!- X-Scale has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:38:24 why not make signal handling secure? 00:44:01 korvo: I realised a while back that asynchronous signals are, in effect, a form of user input 00:44:54 which is why handling them in the event loop makes sense 00:45:17 Soni: Signals create "stale stack frames", so to speak; they interrupt a computation in a way that leaves cleanup unspecified. 00:45:22 I can see potential exceptions for things like lease breaks in noninteractive code, though 00:45:42 korvo: stack frames aren't real 00:46:08 it's all global state 00:46:15 like, say you're reading and processing a really large file, and then the OS tells you that some process is about to change the file while you're reading it, and if you don't stop reading it in 2 seconds you will get undefined behaviour 00:46:16 Soni: How is an object supposed to preserve internal invariants if it can be interrupted at any moment and possibly never restored? 00:46:58 I can see wanting to handle that without a full event loop 00:47:17 korvo: there's an easy answer to that actually! how do you pre-poop your pants? 00:48:11 Soni: How is an object supposed to preserve internal invariants if it can be interrupted at any moment and possibly never restored? ← clearly by using only atomic changes 00:48:13 you could make said object completely inaccessible ("leaking is safe") 00:49:15 ah yes, "anything that is interrupted leaks" can also be a reasonable way to make things work sometimes, although if that rule is applied too blindly you end up leaking the entire computer 00:49:23 which is safe but not particularly useful, or even particularly easy to define 00:49:33 (and you should. the allocator? yeah, can't touch that anymore. you're welcome!) 00:50:13 I know that event loops just came up, but we're not talking about politely pausing computation on an isolated actor and synchronizing its state using some sort of global orthogonal persistence. We were talking about UNIX-style signals. 00:50:46 korvo: asynchronous UNIX-style signals can and should be handled in an event loop as long as you can make sure it runs often enough 00:50:49 how do processes manage preempting-safety 00:51:11 ais523: Yes, that's the right answer. 00:51:50 But at that point they're not signals, but some sort of magic FD or magic syscall. 00:51:51 okay, give us an event loop that can handle SIGSEGV :v 00:52:10 the main exception is for noninteractive processes, where the correct behaviour is a little harder to define – you may need a "signal pump" specifically for interacting with signals, when the program doesn't take input normally 00:52:16 Soni: SIGSEGV is a synchronous signal 00:52:35 normally, at least (it is possible to send a process a synthetic SIGSEGV but doing so is very rare) 00:52:41 and not one that you'd ordinarily handle 00:52:58 SIGSEGV is the main reason to use signals 00:53:00 int-e: handling synchronous SIGSEGV isn't a totally weird thing to do, there are libraries for it 00:53:11 e.g. https://www.gnu.org/software/libsigsegv/ 00:53:27 * int-e finds it ironic that the person who wants to eliminate globals is now asking to tackle a mechanism that's objectively worse cleanly. 00:53:32 but at that point, it is happening in known locations of your code so it doesn't act at all like an asynchronous signal any more, just a weird sort of if statmenet 00:53:46 Event loops really should be run on top of GC, but I can imagine wanting to handle them in the underlying runtime, and this sort of library 00:54:06 most high-performance language VMs use it 00:54:08 ais523: I still think it's not something you'd usually do. 00:54:09 korvo: what do you mean by "on top of" here? 00:54:32 But maybe I'm naive to think that. 00:55:14 int-e: it's not something I'd normally do because I prefer the technique of allocating huge amounts of address space, in such a way that the physical memory backing it is allocated lazily 00:55:22 (luajit, JVM, V8, wasm2c, ...) 00:55:23 that way there are fewer calls into the kernel 00:55:35 but I'm not sure how many OSes support that 00:56:20 int-e: sometimes we shouldn't ask if we should, but if we can. and we think we can.] 00:56:22 ais523: Like, the actual message-handling actions should not have to do any manual allocation. Google's Native Client is a good historic example of how it just can't be made secure. 00:56:27 Soni: VMs aren't your usual application code. 00:56:30 it is very useful to have some way to allocate memory lazily, though, and making use of the page fault if you access a paged-out page of memory is one of the better ways to do it 00:57:07 korvo: are you talking about allocating memory in signal handlers? 00:57:20 int-e: unless you're in #esolangs :p 00:57:32 that was a huge problem for me in NH4 – malloc traditionally doesn't work in signal handlers and it took a while to figure out how to work around the issue 00:57:44 Eh I'd rather piggy-back on an existing VM than write my own. YMMV. 00:57:56 ais523: Huh, effectively, I guess yeah. I wasn't thinking of it that way. 00:58:26 I'm pretty sure that it is possible to write an async-signal-safe malloc, at least in some programming languages (I think it might not be possible in Rust, though) 00:58:37 (at least, not without inline asm) 00:59:32 ais523: we don't want it 00:59:47 who's "we"? 00:59:55 I want an async-signal-safe malloc, at least 01:00:11 Soni's pluralizing themselves all the time. 01:00:28 ah, I see 01:00:34 we want this more than anything https://docs.rs/stdworld/0.1.1/src/std/lib.rs.html#1-156 01:01:05 because why should a signal handler be able to use the allocator when the allocator isn't signal-safe 01:02:37 why solve a problem when you can just avoid it instead 01:02:39 this is easily fixed using capabilities, I think? being able to allocate memory is a type of capability 01:02:49 you can make it available to most code, but not to signal handlers 01:03:08 being able to allocate memory implies access to a &mut GlobalAllocator 01:03:40 just gotta tie that &mut to regular code and forbid it from crossing into a signal handler 01:03:50 the GlobalAllocator object is a type of capability, in that ase 01:03:51 * case 01:03:58 (just like Send and Sync prevent crossing into threads) 01:04:06 code that has it can allocate, code that doesn't have it can't 01:04:20 yeah 01:04:36 and unsafe code can make their own :v 01:04:54 but why stop at allocators 01:05:12 you don't, of course 01:05:25 what happens if we move the entire global context and state into an object you carry around and pass into stuff 01:05:41 Soni: I've been meaning to write a blog post on how to make doing that ergonomic 01:05:42 that is to say, what if global state were a type(state) 01:06:18 it is clearly an improvement, if you can find good syntax for it 01:06:37 *nod* 01:06:42 it's not just global *state*, though, also things like global permissions 01:06:49 how do you find good syntax for it without experimenting with it 01:06:51 "ability to send messages to the printer", for example 01:06:58 eh 01:07:04 we don't need permissions 01:07:06 this is not a state, it contains no bits of information 01:07:15 but it is something that should be guarded the same way 01:07:36 especially because sometimes these things can't be done re-entrantly 01:07:38 did you read the comments in stdworld? 01:07:45 I skimmed some of htem 01:08:02 it seems like it's still in its early stages 01:08:24 is this useful extra context? https://users.rust-lang.org/t/new-signal-safe-std-replacement-looking-for-contributors-to-help-reimplement-all-of-std/117063 01:09:22 (also yes we propose just making implicit) 01:10:07 Indeed, thinking of the computer as a robot, all of the ways that the CPU can signal the robot to act in the outside world are each their own capability. Discovering and wrapping these is known as *taming*. 01:10:16 anyway, I think it is important that global state and permissions and capabilities are all managed by a system like this – it is pointless reimplementing all of std to just get working unloading and signal-safety, when capability-safety is probably more important in practice and also requires implementing all of std 01:10:58 I have considered going further, making things like loops that can't be proven finite require a capability to do 01:11:05 I think that permissions and capabilities should be handled by the operating system, though 01:11:06 if we have this we effectively have capabilities, even if we don't use them ourselves 01:11:10 although you can't do that within most existing langauges 01:11:24 ah yes solving the halting problem lol 01:11:37 "can't be proven finite" doesn't require solving the halting problem 01:11:51 or, well, I meant "haven't been proven finite", you don't have to prove that there's no proof 01:12:27 we don't wanna go anywhere near halting problem stuff tbh 01:13:08 zzo38: They are, kind of. In seL4, allocators and arenas are OS-managed handles, like file descriptors. It's something the OS has to be built around, though. 01:13:18 the problem with what you're doing is that you have a project that a) will take a lot of work to complete and b) has a precisely limited scope that makes it useful only for a few applications and not for otheres 01:13:29 Soni: have you tried woodcarving 01:13:31 I hear Fuschia is cool, although I didn't take it seriously due to the Googliness. 01:13:42 it would be a more useful project if the scope were larger, especially given how much work it would take, because it would then be useful to more peopel 01:13:58 the useful thing about worlds is preventing mistakes, while everyone who says the word capabilities is thinking about control 01:14:01 zzo38: I feel like permissions and capabilities kind-of need the programming language and OS to cooperate 01:14:30 capabilities can also prevent mistakes (e.g. simultaneous overwrites of the same file) 01:14:53 but they're also very useful when, e.g. using untrusted dependencies 01:14:57 I think that the OS has to be built around, yes. And, I had some idea of making such operating system, and all I/O uses a "capability" object. 01:15:00 also that it'll push you to artificially limit some loops to 2**128 iterations long instead of potentially infinite, so that you have a proof that they're finite 01:15:01 unsafe code can make their own worlds 01:15:04 that could be untrusted in the sense of "I think this might do something malicious", and you use the capabilities to sandbox it 01:15:13 Soni: The computer doesn't know what a mistake is. It can't make that sort of moral judgement computationally. 01:15:20 but it could also be untrusted in the sense of "I think this might be buggy", and you use the capabilities to limit the damage if it is 01:15:24 I had seen some stuff about Fuschia. I do not agree with all of the design, but a few of my ideas are similar 01:15:25 (and we make a point of supporting that) 01:15:58 zzo38: Have you seen Capsicum? It's supported on one of the BSDs still, I think. All I/O happens through FDs and a single syscall. 01:16:01 b_jonas: yes; I'm aware of the problem and suspect it's fixable but I don't yet know how 01:16:26 I had seen Capsicum too. 01:17:15 we're here trying to fix the hexchat-plugin crate and nobody cares, everyone thinks we should just leave it unsound forever 01:17:19 I mean sometimes that's a good thing, though for smaller numbers. sometimes I deliberately put a limit, much smaller than 2**128, that I think the loop shouldn't reach, to catch infinite loop bugs earlier 01:18:00 meh 01:18:00 anyway, my view of things is a) the type system in statically typed programming languages is a really good way to model capabilities/permissions and ensure that mistakes in using them are caught at compile-time; b) the OS generally doesn't have a way to confirm that programs perform only operations allowed by a language type system, so it needs to redo the checks itself in such a way that it could catch a program doing malicious things outside the bounds of 01:18:02 the language it's allegedly written in 01:18:04 My idea involves that messages consists of bytes and/or capabilities, and a program receives an initial message when it starts; a program that discards all of its capabilities will terminate (a program that waits for any single capability from an empty set also terminates, and is the usual way to do so) 01:18:17 b_jonas: there's work on tracking resource bounds in types but I'm not sure any of that is practical. 01:18:29 int-e: I did a PhD on this stuff 01:18:44 but mostly it was proving that the standard approach for doing it couldn't possibly work 01:19:02 neat 01:19:06 we wanna move on, this topic is too frustrating 01:19:10 Soni: No worries. It's easy to get overwhelmed with personal infrastructure when also trying to build big libraries for everybody else. Take it slow; there's no rush. 01:19:57 not exactly a programming language but still cursed: do you know the difference between editing text in bash, writing a text editor in bash, and turning bash into a text editor? 01:19:57 A program can also create its own capabilities (proxy capabilities), and programs cannot tell the difference of a proxy capability from any other one. Furthermore, such things as date/time and random numbers is also considered to be I/O, therefore programs can be made deterministic. 01:20:00 most of what I've seen is struggling to establish bounds for small things... like sorting algorithms, up to relatively simple Okasaki style amortized cost things. 01:20:30 zzo38: I agree that something like that would be beneficial – I don't know whether or not you have the details right, but the general approach is fine 01:21:05 ais523: Yes, that is a valid point, some of the details might be better to do differently; they are completely decided yet 01:21:28 zzo38: Yes! And that's why actors end up getting reinvented; capabilities are essentially endpoints where messages are delivered, and also where messages are emitted, with some sort of partial order s.t. no observers disagree about ordering. 01:21:51 actually, it strike me that in all the discussions about operating systems we've had over the years in #esolangs / (and previously #esoteric) 01:21:59 I have read about actor systems as well, and my idea is also similar than that too 01:22:02 all the ideas I can remember are consistent with each other and look towards a similar approach for implementing it 01:22:16 And yeah, you have to tame the system's ambient authority, including timers and entropy. Nix does this too, as do some other build systems. 01:22:46 this is quite amazing, given what the channel is about, and especially given that OSes typically *don't* work like that 01:22:54 sigh we're gonna get dragged back into this 01:23:02 . o O ( shouldn't they be called re-actors ) 01:23:04 it's like everyone has independently decided "this approach is better" 01:23:07 how do you use capabilities on a bare metal microcontroller in asm 01:23:28 well, those don't have an OS 01:23:35 yes 01:23:50 so? 01:23:52 but the answer is probably "they exist in the language you're compiing into the asm from, and the compiler ensures there are no incorrect uses of capabilities" 01:23:55 I should go look for an seL4/Genode hardware compatibility list. I have a couple old Raspberry Pis... 01:24:03 no no, in asm 01:24:03 so that if the compiler is correct, you know the program doesn't have capability violations 01:24:23 Soni: Machine code usually *isn't* capability-safe. 01:24:27 what do you mean by "use capabilities" here 01:24:31 machine code isn't asm 01:24:37 My idea would be that it would also define how the system call interface in the machine code is working in each computer type, so you can use them in assembly language as well, and it will be capability-safe too 01:24:53 hmm, statically typed asm should in theory be possible, you could add ZSTs to that 01:25:11 but, lots of it would compile down to nothing and you wouldn't be able to see it upon disassembling the machien code 01:25:25 However, the portable API would be defined mainly for C, and for the "Command, Automation, and Query Language" as well 01:25:43 yes the entire point of typed asm is that it erases the types when assembling 01:26:01 but it can still check constraints and other stuff 01:26:09 invariants and whatnot 01:26:15 There is a history of capability-safe machines. AIUI the oldest is the Burroughs B5000: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burroughs_Large_Systems 01:26:30 Yes, I suppose you could make static typed assembly but some things you might want to do in assembly language you might not always want it 01:26:47 x86-64 has different commands to operate on SSE registers as floats and as integers, which is notable because it has different commands even when you're performing an operation like a copy that works the same way on both data types 01:26:49 not with that attitude 01:26:52 These basically embed file-descriptor indirections ("capability tables" or "cap tables" in cap lore) into the CPU's way of looking at memory. The CPU can tell whether you're allowed to do what you're trying to do. 01:27:11 and apparently, some processors have a slowdown if you use an integer operation on a register that was most recently read/written as a float, or vice versa 01:27:27 why can't types be aware of such things as self-modifying code? 01:27:34 Today, look for CHERI for examples of this. Also The Mill would have similar tables, but complicated. 01:27:46 self-modifying code doesn't work very well on modern processors 01:27:56 they like to read ahead a long way and run lots of pieces of code in parallel 01:28:02 I think there is a program in uxn for doing something similar than static typed assembly, although I do not use it (and even if you do use it, you can use square brackets to suppress warnings about such things) 01:28:09 if code self-modifies, then either they ignore the modification or they have to discard a lot of work to incorporate the modification 01:28:13 we're not talking about modern processors 01:28:45 well you'd still want unsafe blocks probably, like in rust 01:29:17 (unsafe blocks in an assembler...) 01:29:29 I would also have that the kernel doesn't have "typed capabilities", although the rest of the system implements such things as typed capabilities. 01:29:44 b_jonas: on the subject of loop limits, it may be possible to use run time as a way to prevent variables overflowing 01:29:59 ais523: It's even odder than that -- Packed 32-bit integer and 64-bit integer xor are different instructions, I think. 01:30:04 say you have 64-bit reference counts, and they are only ever increased and decreased by small integers 01:30:30 now a reference count cannot overflow, you cannot run 2**64/(small integer) incref instructions to overflow it, the program does not run for that long 01:30:39 so you can optimise out the overflow checks 01:31:00 `asm vpxord %ymm0, %ymm1, %ymm2 01:31:02 0: 62 f1 75 28 ef d0 vpxord %ymm0,%ymm1,%ymm2 01:31:05 `asm vpxorq %ymm0, %ymm1, %ymm2 01:31:07 0: 62 f1 f5 28 ef d0 vpxorq %ymm0,%ymm1,%ymm2 01:31:41 Is that just because the instruction encoding is regular, or is there a reason to stick with the same number of lanes across operations or something? 01:31:59 shachaf: a quick check of the docs implies that this only happens with AVX512 encodings specifically 01:32:03 which makes it probably a case of regular encoding 01:32:20 `asm vpxor %ymm0, %ymm1, %ymm2 01:32:21 0: c5 f5 ef d0 vpxor %ymm0,%ymm1,%ymm2 01:32:52 oh, no, the operations are acutally different 01:33:00 I had not used modern x86-64 assembly language, although I had examined the assembly code output from compilers 01:33:01 AVX512 supports masks to operate only on a subset of the inputs 01:33:11 or, well, to only write a subset of the values to the output register 01:33:23 Ah, interesting, these packed 32-bit/64-bit xor instructions are AVX512. 01:33:30 the D versus Q would affect the meaning of the mask, even though it doesn't affect the meaning of the XOR 01:33:53 `asm vpxord {k1} %ymm0, %ymm1, %ymm2 01:33:54 ​/tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: invalid char '{' beginning operand 1 `{k1} %ymm0' \ /tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: junk `} %ymm0' after expression 01:34:04 `asm vpxord %ymm0, {k1} %ymm1, %ymm2 01:34:05 ​/tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: invalid char '{' beginning operand 2 `{k1} %ymm1' \ /tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: junk `} %ymm1' after expression 01:34:09 `asm vpxord %ymm0 {k1}, %ymm1, %ymm2 01:34:10 0: 62 f1 75 29 ef c2 vpxord ymm0{k1},ymm1,ymm2 01:34:13 there we go 01:34:26 so the meaning of k1 is affected by the d 01:34:28 Hmm, fair enough. 01:34:47 It's still kind of funny that the unmasked instructions are different. 01:35:18 I haven't looked at the AVX512 encodings very closely. Maybe the unmasked instructions are just a special case of the masked instructions or something, so this happens naturally. 01:35:25 right, but given how there are 15 times as many masked as unmasked variants, it doesn't really make sense to remove one of the unmasked versions, it'd hardly save any encoding space 01:36:15 Why 15 times? Is it 15 mask registers or something, and unmasked is just encoded as another mask register? 01:36:41 oh, no, I misremembered, it is 8 01:36:48 I thought there were 16, one of which indicated unmasked 01:37:18 Note that from this set of 8 architectural registers, only k1 through k7 can be addressed as predicate oper- ands. k0 can be used as a regular source or destination but cannot be encoded as a predicate operand. 01:38:09 so there are 8, in theory, but only 7 of them can be encoded into an instruction whose purpose is anything other than manipulating mask registers 01:38:23 Hmm, interesting. 01:38:52 If you actually want fast unmasked xor on AVX512, you'd use vpternlog. 01:40:03 Well, if you're xoring more than two things, which is presumably pretty common. 01:40:14 `asm vpxord %ymm0 {k1}, %ymm1, %ymm2 01:40:15 0: 62 f1 75 29 ef c2 vpxord ymm0{k1},ymm1,ymm2 01:40:18 `asm vpxord %ymm0 {k0}, %ymm1, %ymm2 01:40:19 ​/tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: unknown vector operation: `{k0}' \ /tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: `%k0' can't be used for write mask 01:40:35 `asm vpxord %ymm0 {k1}{z}, %ymm1, %ymm2 01:40:36 0: 62 f1 75 a9 ef c2 vpxord ymm0{k1}{z},ymm1,ymm2 01:40:57 I still haven't found the part of the documentation which says that 000 encodes no mask 01:41:26 `asm .byte 0x62,0xf1,0x75,0x28,0xef,0xd2 01:41:27 0: 62 f1 75 28 ef d2 vpxord %ymm2,%ymm1,%ymm2 01:41:45 `asm vpternlogd $0x96, %ymm0, %ymm1, %ymm2 01:41:47 0: 62 f3 75 28 25 d0 96 vpternlogd $0x96,%ymm0,%ymm1,%ymm2 01:41:53 `asm vpxord %ymm0, %ymm1, %ymm2{k0} 01:41:54 ​/tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: unknown vector operation: `{k0}' \ /tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: `%k0' can't be used for write mask 01:41:57 `asm vpxord %ymm0, %ymm1, %ymm2{k1} 01:41:58 ​/tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: unknown vector operation: `{k1}' \ /tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: mask not on destination operand for `vpxord' 01:42:19 I hate how long these instructions are 01:42:50 I've only written a small amount of AVX512 code. I didn't use the masking at all there. 01:42:56 `asm .byte 0x62,0xf1,0x75,0xa8,0xef,0xd2 01:42:57 0: 62 f1 75 a8 ef d2 vpxord %ymm2,%ymm1,%ymm2{z} 01:44:01 `asm vgf2p8affineqb $0, %zmm0, %zmm1, %zmm2 # the other great instruction in AVX512 01:44:03 0: 62 f3 f5 48 ce d0 00 vgf2p8affineqb $0x0,%zmm0,%zmm1,%zmm2 01:44:09 termlog and gf2p8affineqb are where it's at. 01:44:34 I use Intel syntax when writing SSEish/AVXish code, because with AT&T syntax I find it too hard to figure out which order the arguments are supposed to be in 01:44:42 I agree. 01:44:55 I'm used to AT&T syntax but I think I should just switch to Intel syntax everywhere for this reason. 01:45:12 I do like the % signs on registers to stop them clashing with variables, though 01:45:24 if someone adds a new register that has the same name as a variable you're using… 01:45:27 Or maybe I should switch to ARM or RISC-V syntaxes. 01:45:47 but people get angry with me when I use Intel argument order with % on registers, even though gas supports it 01:46:12 `asm vpxord %ymm2,%ymm1,%ymm2{z} 01:46:13 ​/tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: zeroing-masking only allowed with write mask \ /tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: zeroing-masking only allowed with write mask 01:46:19 ah. cool. 01:47:17 PCLMULQDQ is a fun instruction, that I may even have used as VPCLMULQDQ 01:47:24 I am not quite sure why it has an SSE encoding, I think it's newer than SSE is 01:47:43 (But what happens if you execute that 0x62,0xf1,0x75,0xa8,0xef,0xd2 on real hardware? Will it fault or execute as an unmasked vpxord? 01:48:03 `asm vpclmullqlqdq %xmm1, %xmm2 01:48:05 ​/tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: number of operands mismatch for `vpclmullqlqdq' \ /tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: number of operands mismatch for `vpclmullqlqdq' 01:48:16 `asm vpclmullqlqdq %xmm1, %xmm2, %xmm3 01:48:18 0: c4 e3 69 44 d9 00 vpclmullqlqdq %xmm1,%xmm2,%xmm3 01:49:19 `asm vpclmullqlqdq %zmm1, %zmm2, %zmm3 01:49:20 ​/tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: operand size mismatch for `vpclmullqlqdq' \ /tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: operand size mismatch for `vpclmullqlqdq' 01:49:32 `asm vpclmullqlqdq %ymm1, %ymm2, %ymm3 01:49:34 ​/tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: operand size mismatch for `vpclmullqlqdq' \ /tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: operand size mismatch for `vpclmullqlqdq' 01:50:08 how does that mnemonic work... low quad, low quad, double quad. 01:50:09 huh, that should be encodeable with ymm registers 01:50:12 int-e: right 01:50:37 sorry, I have this habit of starting a question... and then looking up the answer and reporting it along with it :P 01:50:41 it is an abbreviation/shortcut mnemonic which is somehow harder to remember and longer than the instruction it abbreviates 01:50:56 `asm vpclmulqdq %xmm1, %xmm2, %xmm3, 0x00 01:50:58 0: c4 e3 69 44 cb 00 vpclmullqlqdq xmm1,xmm2,xmm3 01:51:39 `asm vpclmulqdq %xmm1, %xmm2, %xmm3, 0x11 01:51:41 0: c4 e3 69 44 cb 11 vpclmulhqhqdq xmm1,xmm2,xmm3 01:52:15 `asm vpclmulqdq %xmm1, %xmm2, %xmm3, 0x23 01:52:17 0: c4 e3 69 44 cb 23 vpclmulqdq xmm1,xmm2,xmm3,0x23 01:52:40 the disassembler is scared to abbreviate when you set some of the ignored bits in the immediate :-) 01:53:31 `asm pext ax, bx, cx 01:53:33 ​/tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: too many memory references for `pext' \ /tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: operand size mismatch for `pext' 01:53:41 *reading* yeah apparently that's legal 01:53:43 `asm pext eax, ebx, ecx 01:53:45 0: c4 e2 62 f5 c1 pext eax,ebx,ecx 01:54:19 Hmm, I might need to do a spot of the carryless multiplication soon to speed up a CRC thing. 01:54:23 (that's the INTERCAL select instruction) 01:54:42 fun to see a three-operand instruction that operates on the general-purpose integer registers 01:54:50 `asm pext eax, ebx, esp 01:54:51 0: c4 e2 62 f5 c4 pext eax,ebx,esp 01:55:14 `asm pext eax, ebx, eip 01:55:15 ​/tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: too many memory references for `pext' \ /tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: operand type mismatch for `pext' 01:55:28 I didn't think you'd be able to do that one, but it was worth trying 01:55:46 Interesting, it uses a VEX prefix and puts the third operand there, I guess. 01:56:07 yes 01:57:24 C-INTERCAL compiles ~ into PEXT in some circumstances which I can't remember, it was too good an opportunity 01:57:25 You can't use eip anywhere except as a memory offset, right? 01:57:31 `asm pext rax, rbx, [rip] 01:57:33 0: c4 e2 e2 f5 05 00 00 00 00 pext rax,rbx,QWORD PTR [rip+0x0] # 0x9 01:57:37 hehe that reminds me of "pop cs" that apparently worked on 8089 and 8086. 01:58:02 a return statement is actually just a pop of the IP 01:58:03 before it was stolen as a prefix for encoding more instructions (0x0F) 01:58:06 but it is given a different name 01:58:28 but yes, usually you can't use RIP except for IP-relative addressing 01:58:36 `asm pext rax, rbx, [0x0] 01:58:39 0: c4 e2 e2 f5 04 25 00 00 00 00 pext rax,rbx,QWORD PTR ds:0x0 01:59:05 `asm lea rax, [rip] 01:59:06 0: 48 8d 05 00 00 00 00 lea rax,[rip+0x0] # 0x7 01:59:23 I was going to say lea is another three-operand instruction, but that's not true for rip, I guess. 01:59:38 absolute-memory-address addressing (with no register) had two equivalent encodings in x86-32, one of them (the shorter one) was repurposed to mean rip-relative 01:59:55 `asm lea rax, [rbx + rcx + 0x4] 01:59:56 0: 48 8d 44 0b 04 lea rax,[rbx+rcx*1+0x4] 02:00:04 `asm lea rax, [rip + rcx + 0x4] 02:00:06 ​/tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: invalid char '[' beginning operand 2 `[rip+rcx+0x4]' \ /tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: `[rip+rcx+0x4]' is not a valid base/index expression 02:00:40 but you can't put RIP into anything other than "[RIP + constant]" because of that 02:01:42 the longer encoding was a consequence of encoding consistency: 02:01:56 `asm lea rax, [rbx + 0x4] 02:01:58 0: 48 8d 43 04 lea rax,[rbx+0x4] 02:02:06 err, not that one 02:02:10 `asm lea rax, [rbp + 0x4] 02:02:12 0: 48 8d 45 04 lea rax,[rbp+0x4] 02:02:16 `asm lea rax, [rsp + 0x4] 02:02:17 0: 48 8d 44 24 04 lea rax,[rsp+0x4] 02:02:20 there we go 02:02:25 I wrote an encoder for all this ModRM/SIB business once. 02:02:28 `asm lea rax, [rbx*2 + 0x4] 02:02:30 0: 48 8d 04 5d 04 00 00 00 lea rax,[rbx*2+0x4] 02:02:50 But I've mostly forgotten it already. 02:04:48 We should have `asm for ARM. 02:04:57 `cat /hackenv/bin/asm 02:04:58 ​#!/bin/sh \ echo "$1" > /tmp/asm.s; for o in ',' '-msyntax=intel -mnaked-reg,-M intel'; do if as ${o%,*} /tmp/asm.s -o /tmp/asm.o 2>>/tmp/asm.err; then objdump ${o#*,} -d --insn-width=20 /tmp/asm.o | sed -e "1,/0000000000000000/d" | perl -pe 'if (/^\s*(\w+:)\s*((?:\w\w )+)\s*(\S.*)$/) { ($a,$b,$c) = ($1,$2,$3); $_ = "$a $b ".($c =~ s/\s+/ /rg)."\n"; }'; exit; fi; done; cat /tmp/asm.err 02:05:56 . o O ( `asmr ) 02:06:31 Maybe just `arm 02:06:47 perhaps `arsm? 02:06:52 shachaf: but that's less confusing :P 02:07:09 TBH `arm was my first thought 02:07:18 I'd rather avoid ars* 02:08:58 (there could also be a `amd64 alias for `asm to make `arm feel more systematic) 02:09:03 Can GNU as cross-assemble by default? 02:09:40 I don't know. I guess not. 02:10:23 I think llvm-as can? But it doesn't seem to be installed. 02:12:33 I was recently thinking about how LDAPR works, and I was confused at first, but now I think it makes sense and is kind of elegant. 02:13:42 (Or rather about how LDAR works, I guess.) 02:14:09 -!- X-Scale has joined. 02:17:36 `` echo $(as --help | awk '/=CPU/ { x++ } (x == 1) { print }' | sed 's= *= =g') # full output at https://hack.esolangs.org/tmp/paste/paste.28966 02:17:38 ​-march=CPU[,+EXTENSION...] generate code for CPU and EXTENSION, CPU is one of: generic32, generic64, i386, i486, i586, i686, pentium, pentiumpro, pentiumii, pentiumiii, pentium4, prescott, nocona, core, core2, corei7, l1om, k1om, iamcu, k6, k6_2, athlon, opteron, k8, amdfam10, bdver1, bdver2, bdver3, bdver4, znver1, znver2, btver1, btver2 EXTENSION is combination of: 8087, 287, 387, 687, mmx, sse, sse2, sse3, ssse3, sse4.1, sse4.2, sse4, avx, avx2, avx5 02:18:27 so just x86 things 02:19:17 and I guess the `sed` isn't needed 02:21:55 Interesting, GNU as has a -mfence-as-lock-add option. 02:22:10 "encode lfence, mfence and sfence as lock addl $0x0, (%{re}sp)" 02:22:16 Is that always correct? 02:22:26 I ask because mfence is significantly slower than a locked instruction like that. 02:22:58 At least in my tests. 02:25:02 I suspect it isn't 02:25:06 `fetch /hackenv/tmp/fence.c https://shachaf.net/tmp/fence.c 02:25:09 2024-11-04 02:25:08 URL:https://shachaf.net/tmp/fence.c [1589/1589] -> "/hackenv/tmp/fence.c" [1] 02:26:09 Ah, can't do perf in HackEso. 02:28:29 Also, generating lock addl $0, (%rsp) generates a false dependency on (%rsp) 02:28:53 I recently read a post suggesting doing it on an address in the red zone below (%rsp) instead, to avoid that. 02:29:14 ais523: Do you know the specific differences? 02:29:37 I like this Intel pseudocode for mfence: "Wait_On_Following_Loads_And_Stores_Until(preceding_loads_and_stores_globally_visible);" 03:05:02 "64-bit reference counts, only ever increased and decreased by small integers, cannot overflow" => yes, I am aware of that trick 03:05:59 it can be useful for things other than reference counts too 03:22:13 "I still haven't found the part of the documentation which says that 000 encodes no mask" => try to find the part in the Intel 64 and IA-32 Architecture Software Developer's Manual that defines how the REX prefix modifies the registers encoded by ModR/M bytes as described in vol 2 ch 2.1.5 and B.1.4. 03:25:11 -!- baldibacak has joined. 03:27:31 shachaf: at a guess, write-combining memory probably works differently 03:27:47 I don't know the actual answer though 03:33:07 this is why we have both the Intel and AMD manual, gnu binutils, yasm, Agner's objdump, and qemu. if some information about instruction encoding is unclear or missing in one manual, you can look them up in the other five. 03:33:45 s/objdump/objconv/ 03:34:23 that's six independent sources of information, each of which should completely specify the instruction encodings 03:34:51 (binutils has both an assembler and a disassembler, but I don't think the two count as independent) 03:36:12 plus of course there are real CPUs to test with 03:36:59 there was so much garbage file in my home dir so i rm -rf homedir now i erased every single config 03:37:09 and no cominmg back 03:53:17 -!- baldibacak has quit (Quit: Client closed). 03:53:49 -!- babakarazaqo has joined. 03:54:15 -!- babakarazaqo has left. 04:22:54 -!- craigo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:50:43 Is it possible in Linux to disable address space randomization for a specific program (without affecting other programs)? 06:01:57 zzo38: yes, call personality(ADDR_NO_RANDOMIZE) from the process that spawns it, between the fork and exec 06:04:43 I am not sure if that affects randomization done by the dynamic linker too, or just by the kernel 06:05:13 OK. The man page for "personality" on my computer does not mention what argument is expected by that function 06:06:03 Is it usable together with other stuff in order to be able to save/restore the program's memory (if it is not necessary to save/restore file descriptors, signals, etc, and the program does not use multiple threads)? 06:07:18 zzo38: yes, but there's a better way to do it; see PR_SET_MM in prctl(2) 06:07:58 there's actually quite a lot of kernel support for checkpointing and restoring a program's memory 06:08:21 and existing programs to do it for you, so you don't need to rewrite it from scratch; I think CRIU is one of the better-known ones 06:09:42 turning off ASLR is still useful if you need the program to run reproducibly 06:12:48 I do not seem to have PR_SET_MM on my computer 06:12:55 (maybe I need a newer version of Linux) 06:14:43 (Also, the program that should be saved/restored would be one that is meant to be able to do this, so it not just any arbitrary program. If this requires special linker options it is OK too) 06:30:04 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:31:20 [[JS-CODE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144889&oldid=144875 * Ractangle * (+1) /* Some things i found */ 07:07:31 You can also do it in the ELF file, can't you? 07:31:19 -!- tromp has joined. 07:45:28 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:46:37 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 08:33:44 [[User talk:Superstitionfreeblog]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144890&oldid=143607 * ZCX islptng * (+435) 09:07:22 -!- X-Scale has quit (Quit: Client closed). 09:19:11 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 09:43:53 [[RECT4n=GLE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144891&oldid=139113 * JJRubes * (+690) interpretation explanation rewrite 09:45:25 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 09:50:41 -!- tromp has joined. 10:00:47 -!- amby has joined. 11:28:07 -!- chiselfuse has quit (*.net *.split). 11:35:50 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 11:49:56 -!- X-Scale has joined. 11:55:18 [['Python' is not recognized]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144892&oldid=144869 * Ractangle * (-44) /* Syntax */ 11:55:54 [['Python' is not recognized]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144893&oldid=144892 * Ractangle * (+12) /* Hello, world! */ 11:58:25 -!- Everything has joined. 12:00:45 -!- X-Scale has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:35:41 ais523: compile-time virtual memory 12:43:51 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 12:52:37 -!- Guest60 has joined. 13:02:43 oh wait, not around 13:04:10 -!- Everything has quit (Quit: leaving). 13:05:53 [[SML]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144894&oldid=143587 * Froginstarch * (+19) /* Hello, world! */ 13:07:24 [[User:EvyLah/public stack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144895&oldid=131013 * Gggfr * (+469) /* commands */ 13:07:59 aaah im bored 13:08:06 give me spmething to turn into an esolang 13:08:59 [[User:EvyLah/public stack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144896&oldid=144895 * Gggfr * (+71) /* commands */ 13:15:32 -!- baldibacak has joined. 13:15:56 '=( 13:16:21 hellllllo 13:16:28 hello 13:16:39 you gud? 13:16:43 y 13:17:04 btw how do we setup password on liberal chat 13:17:06 -!- Guest60 has quit (Quit: Client closed). 13:18:04 -!- Guest60 has joined. 13:18:07 idk 13:18:27 want to read an esolang? 13:22:25 cuz i have smth for you to read! 13:24:59 baldibacsk this is for you 13:25:03 ? 13:25:04 -!- wib_jonas has joined. 13:25:21 *baldibacak 13:25:45 so? 13:28:03 ais523: apparently the Turing-complete computation in M:tG is making rounds on the internet, though here it appears with a very deceptive wording, both because it's missing the parenthesis in "deck can be used to (deal damage iff mathematical conjecture is true)": https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/links-for-november-2024 (search for "Isochron 13:28:03 Scepter") 13:29:05 -!- Guest60 has quit (Quit: Client closed). 13:29:58 -!- wWwwW has joined. 13:32:10 hello 13:32:37 i was guest60 lol 13:33:00 ais523: ik its a loong time but somebody made an interpreter for RECT4n=GLE and explained it better is if you where interestd then you can see it now 13:42:31 so what you was going to tell me 13:43:02 i was going to if you said yyes show you this: 13:43:23 https://esolangs.org/wiki/Bring_to_another 13:44:00 what is it 13:44:12 an esolang 13:44:53 reverse enginnering an esolang 13:44:57 seems interesting 13:45:15 thx! :] 13:47:44 -!- amby has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 13:58:14 have you red/are readingf th hackMD doc? 13:58:52 nah 13:59:02 lol 13:59:10 i am gonna make an end to end encrypted chat app 13:59:26 waht tf 14:03:43 just for fun i am gonna make an chatapp includesend to end encrypted meaning i cant read messages 14:03:49 i set all logic in my hand 14:03:56 i should start by learning sockets 14:09:27 -!- tromp has joined. 14:10:02 -!- wWwwW has quit (Quit: Client closed). 14:14:09 -!- baldibacak has quit (Quit: Client closed). 14:17:23 -!- wWwwW has joined. 14:34:58 [[Extended Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144897&oldid=139240 * None1 * (+38) 14:44:34 [[Brainfuck extended]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144898&oldid=140254 * None1 * (+124) 14:45:32 [[Brainfuck extended]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144899&oldid=144898 * None1 * (+45) 14:45:52 [[Extended Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144900&oldid=144897 * None1 * (-1) 14:47:34 [[Brainfuck extended]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144901&oldid=144899 * None1 * (+131) 14:50:24 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 14:58:00 huh ... apparently that uses a card https://scryfall.com/card/dsk/241/zimone-all-questioning that refers to prime numbers explicitly in its rules text. that's cheating! 15:06:37 -!- wWwwW has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:12:13 -!- tromp has joined. 15:59:11 -!- wWwwW has joined. 16:07:26 -!- X-Scale has joined. 16:11:10 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 16:31:01 -!- tromp has joined. 16:32:54 [[Son of a BitCh]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144902 * ZCX islptng * (+613) Created page with "Son of a [[BitChanger|BitCh]] is an esolang with 2 instructions, created by islptng. As the title says, it is heavily inspired and based on BitChanger. The program itself, has not only a tape, but a state storage, which the value is always one of diojn< 16:44:21 [[Son of a BitCh]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144903&oldid=144902 * ZCX islptng * (+140) Examples 16:46:58 [[Deadfish with gotos and input]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144904&oldid=144853 * ZCX islptng * (+21) Added my AHF to this page because it has the same idea as mine. 17:02:29 [[User:EvyLah/public stack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144905&oldid=144896 * Ractangle * (+25) /* program */ 17:02:39 [[User:EvyLah/public stack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144906&oldid=144905 * Ractangle * (-9) /* program */ 17:03:43 -!- baldibacak has joined. 17:20:08 can we send images here 17:20:27 -!- wib_jonas has quit (Quit: Client closed). 17:25:52 -!- amby has joined. 17:26:31 -!- baldibacak has quit (Quit: Client closed). 17:59:51 [[MarkupL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144907&oldid=144888 * Ractangle * (-181) /* MarkupL syntax */ 18:06:38 [[Bake]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144908&oldid=143158 * Ractangle * (-14) /* Syntax */ 18:06:47 [[Bake]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144909&oldid=144908 * Ractangle * (-2) /* Cat program */ 18:26:13 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 18:35:09 -!- wWwwW has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:38:24 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * QOALO * New user account 18:38:32 -!- tromp has joined. 18:44:27 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * AES256-Always secure Encrypeter * New user account 19:06:19 -!- X-Scale has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:12:30 [['Python' is not recognized]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144910&oldid=144893 * Ractangle * (-436) 19:12:46 [['Python' is not recognized]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144911&oldid=144910 * Ractangle * (+0) /* Syntax */ 19:12:50 [['Python' is not recognized]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144912&oldid=144911 * Ractangle * (+1) /* Hello, world! */ 19:13:40 [['Python' is not recognized]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144913&oldid=144912 * Ractangle * (-25) /* Implementation */ 19:35:49 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:38:40 [[User:EvyLah/public stack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144914&oldid=144906 * EvyLah * (-2) /* current stack */ ya gotta change the stack when you change the program 19:51:05 -!- X-Scale has joined. 19:53:38 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:00:35 -!- craigo has joined. 20:07:57 -!- X-Scale has quit (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)). 20:21:26 [['Python' is not recognized]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144915&oldid=144913 * Ractangle * (+37) /* Syntax */ 20:50:51 [['Python' is not recognized]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144916&oldid=144915 * Ractangle * (+21) /* Examples */ 21:19:38 [['Python' is not recognized]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144917&oldid=144916 * Ractangle * (+9) /* Quine */ 21:19:55 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:21:32 [[List of quines]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144918&oldid=139630 * Ractangle * (+44) /* $_$ */ 21:22:50 [[List of quines]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144919&oldid=144918 * Ractangle * (+64) /* /// */ 21:52:34 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 21:56:40 -!- tromp has joined. 21:58:30 -!- Everything has joined. 22:29:04 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 22:42:15 -!- Everything has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:26:53 [[lang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144920&oldid=143523 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+45) /* Java Interpreter */ 23:27:33 [[Txet]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144921&oldid=140918 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+4) /* Cat program */ 23:30:50 [[Nope.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144922&oldid=144512 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+48) /* Tile */ 23:41:48 [[Talk:Text]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144923&oldid=132832 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+12012) /* txeT */ 23:42:11 [[Talk:Text]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144924&oldid=144923 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-71) /* 99 bottles of beer on the wall */ 23:42:18 [[Talk:Text]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144925&oldid=144924 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+69) /* txeT */ 23:47:42 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:48:00 [[9]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144926&oldid=144719 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-5) /* Operators */ 2024-11-05: 00:37:56 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:38:41 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 00:40:20 ais523: btw, something I did think of on a BF Joust rework 00:40:48 It may be worth it to have certain numbers be "cheaper" to represent in some way than others. e.g. (+)*16 being "shroter" than (+)*15 or (+)*17 00:40:52 shorter* 00:41:10 Would help reduce the amount of finetuning, I think, to have a few specific breakpoints for "large/small/etc" on decoy/offset/etc sizes. 00:44:15 Lymia: hm, interesting 00:44:41 Decoys especially, combined with offset clears existing. 00:44:54 +1 on an offset or decoy size can make or break a hill. 00:45:01 I was planning to just use decimal but I am not convinced I disagree – OTOH it might be hard to do in an intuitive way 00:46:01 The existence of pairs of bots where.... 00:46:13 +1/-1 on offset or decoy sizes can just flip that one matchup and lose very little elsewhere is an ow. 01:13:51 -!- amby has quit (Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement). 01:16:43 -!- m5zs7k has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:17:08 -!- m5zs7k has joined. 01:26:56 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:28:47 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 01:51:28 -!- X-Scale has joined. 02:06:23 [[Son of a BitCh]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144927&oldid=144903 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+222) Categories 02:10:20 [[BitChanger]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144928&oldid=101522 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+67) /* See also */ Derivatives 02:11:29 -!- X-Scale has quit (Quit: Client closed). 02:45:22 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 02:48:06 -!- Noisytoot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:09:18 -!- Noisytoot has joined. 05:25:24 -!- myname has quit (*.net *.split). 05:25:25 -!- perlbot has quit (*.net *.split). 05:25:25 -!- b_jonas has quit (*.net *.split). 05:25:26 -!- jix has quit (*.net *.split). 05:25:27 -!- wryl has quit (*.net *.split). 05:25:27 -!- drakonis has quit (*.net *.split). 05:25:27 -!- Ae has quit (*.net *.split). 05:25:28 -!- ManDeJan has quit (*.net *.split). 05:25:29 -!- Bowserinator has quit (*.net *.split). 05:25:29 -!- dnm has quit (*.net *.split). 05:25:29 -!- Argorok has quit (*.net *.split). 05:25:30 -!- krychu_ has quit (*.net *.split). 05:25:52 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 05:27:08 -!- Ae has joined. 05:27:08 -!- ManDeJan has joined. 05:27:08 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 05:27:08 -!- dnm has joined. 05:27:08 -!- Argorok has joined. 05:27:08 -!- krychu_ has joined. 05:27:36 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 243 seconds). 05:27:47 -!- perlbot has joined. 05:27:47 -!- b_jonas has joined. 05:27:47 -!- jix has joined. 05:27:47 -!- wryl has joined. 05:27:47 -!- drakonis has joined. 05:28:24 -!- myname has joined. 05:57:36 I had also made up a Magic: the Gathering card before that mentioned prime numbers, before the other one mentioned that was made officially. I wrote "Players and permanents with a prime number of counters have shroud." 06:30:03 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:33:57 -!- craigo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:38:34 [[Text]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144929&oldid=135543 * Ractangle * (+1) /* Quine */ 07:41:11 [[User:EvyLah/public stack]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144930&oldid=144914 * Gggfr * (+28) 07:43:08 [[List of quines]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144931&oldid=144919 * Ractangle * (+76) /* 05AB1E */ 07:46:19 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:47:08 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 07:56:44 [[List of quines]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144932&oldid=144931 * ZCX islptng * (-13) Moved !Chinese because it is built-in 07:57:08 -!- Guest60 has joined. 07:57:13 helllllllo 08:07:00 -!- tromp has joined. 08:32:44 -!- Guest60 has quit (Quit: Client closed). 08:33:26 -!- wWwwW has joined. 08:50:13 “certain numbers be ‘cheaper’ to represent (+)*16 being ‘shroter’ than (+)*15 or (+)*17” => oh no! it's not US election day, it's still Halloween, and the deadfish are executing their iiss attack! 08:50:45 waht 09:19:26 [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ractangle * moved [[Inspect.getmembers(object)]] to [["Python"]] 09:19:26 [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ractangle * moved [[Talk:Inspect.getmembers(object)]] to [[Talk:"Python"]] 09:19:42 [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ractangle * moved [["Python"]] to [["python"]] 09:19:42 [[Special:Log/move]] move * Ractangle * moved [[Talk:"Python"]] to [[Talk:"python"]] 09:21:07 [["python"]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144941&oldid=144937 * Ractangle * (-8) 09:29:27 [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144942&oldid=144858 * Ractangle * (+14) /* Stuff to continue */ 10:03:18 -!- moony has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:03:36 -!- moony has joined. 10:38:29 -!- wWwwW has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:47:47 [["python"]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144943&oldid=144941 * Ractangle * (-14) 10:48:52 [["python"]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144944&oldid=144943 * Ractangle * (+32) 10:51:02 [["python"]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144945&oldid=144944 * Ractangle * (+31) 10:56:02 -!- amby has joined. 10:56:16 -!- supercode has joined. 11:02:54 -!- Artea has joined. 11:14:30 -!- supercode has quit (Quit: Client closed). 11:47:52 [[User:Superstitionfreeblog]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144946&oldid=144723 * Superstitionfreeblog * (+1093) 11:55:42 -!- wWwwW has joined. 12:38:12 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 13:09:41 -!- Everything has joined. 13:28:15 [[!@$%^&*()+=]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144947 * Xyzzy * (+59) Created page with "{{Stub}}{{WIP}} This is a language based on [[!@$%^&*()+]]." 13:34:04 [[Talk:!@$%^&*()+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144948&oldid=140824 * Yayimhere * (+157) /* the hell */ 13:36:25 -!- wWwwW has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:47:43 -!- tromp has joined. 13:49:36 [[Talk:Look!]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144949 * None1 * (+447) Created page with "==Look! online interpreter== Since I've deleted the REPL hosting the Look! online interpreter, I plan to create another using Vercel. It will probably be done in a month, but it won't be reachable in inland China. --~~~~" 13:52:26 -!- wWwwW has joined. 13:55:37 -!- Everything has quit (Quit: leaving). 13:57:46 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 13:59:05 -!- wWwwW has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:06:13 -!- tromp has joined. 14:57:24 -!- wib_jonas has joined. 15:27:35 -!- X-Scale has joined. 15:41:54 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 15:51:24 -!- tromp has joined. 16:01:10 `? password 16:01:13 The password of the month is release incident pilot. 16:01:39 > map sort ["release incident pilot","presidential election"] 16:01:40 [" acdeeeeiiillnnoprstt"," acdeeeeiiillnnoprstt"] 16:03:31 (https://wordsmith.org/anagram/ is still pretty cool) 16:26:24 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 16:33:11 -!- tromp has joined. 16:58:31 int-e: you know the command you gave doesn't actually compare them, and they're very hard to compare by eye, right? 16:58:50 wib_jonas: well, they're not equal 17:00:16 anyway, yes, I know 17:03:17 wib_jonas: but also https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/ooh1Aif8eija.png :P 17:04:03 hehe 17:25:38 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 17:35:58 -!- wib_jonas has quit (Quit: Client closed). 18:02:42 -!- tromp has joined. 18:28:53 [[!@$%^&*()+=]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144950&oldid=144947 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+42) Categories 19:08:29 -!- X-Scale has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:23:50 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:45:11 b_jonas: huh, using Deadfish notation to represent numbers would indeed be a reasonable way to make some numbers cheaper than others 20:46:52 int-e: Are people electing a new president of #esolangs? 20:47:27 i ii iii iis iisi iisii iisiii iiisd iiis iiisi iiisii iiisiii iissddd iissdd iissd iiss 20:48:04 (have we reminded all the Americans here (who are eligible to vote and haven't yet done so in this election) to go and vote yet?) 20:49:33 alternatively, binary floating-point could work: 1p0 1p1 1.1p1 1p2 1.01p2 1.1p2 1.11p2 1p3 etc. 20:50:26 ais523: Any recommendations on what to vote for? 20:51:01 (I already dropped off my ballot yesterday.) 20:52:28 shachaf: at least in the UK, Trump is incredibly unpopular, so I imagine most Brits would vote against him by voting for Harris 20:53:01 we had a Trump supporter as Prime Minister recently, she got thrown out by her own party after only a few weeks 20:54:03 but Trump was also very unpopular even before then 20:54:58 Well, my presidential vote is completely meaningless in California. 20:55:22 indeed – it would be a huge upset if Harris fell below 50% there, and every vote above 50% doesn't matter 20:55:39 some of the House seats in California might potentially matter 20:56:00 but I don't have the list of individual seats in California memorised 20:57:25 (looking it up on the Internet says that CA-45 and CA-22 are the two closest House districts in the country) 20:57:31 [[Eodermdrome]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144951&oldid=142355 * Digital Hunter * (+6) /* Example programs */ updated link 20:58:41 My district, CA-12, is presumably on the other end of whatever list that is. 20:59:10 "With a Cook Partisan Voter Index rating of D+40, the 12th district is the most Democratic district in both California and the United States, giving nearly 90% of its vote to Democrats in both the 2016 and 2020 presidential elections.[1][2]" 20:59:17 ais523: the problem is that it also lets jousters very quickly zero a flag that starts at 128 21:00:23 shachaf: yes, a) CA-12 isn't remotely close, and b) both candidates say that they'll support the Democrats if they win, so it would require one of them to be lying about that to affect who controls the House post-election 21:00:35 b_jonas: I don't see that as a problem, turtles being fast is good for the game 21:00:57 if they weren't fast there'd be no point in using the strategy, it has a lot of disadvantages 21:02:57 ais523: One of the candidates is going for a direct democracy thing: 21:03:02 «"We are putting the power back into the people by allowing the voters of the East Bay to vote on every bill that crosses my desk in congress. Meaning that as long as 51% of the district votes for a bill that passes my desk, I will support that even if I don't personally agreed with the particular decision," said Dr. Tran.» 21:03:56 Of course de facto that's still the same situation. 21:04:02 yes, just with extra steps 21:04:16 Also she's presumably not going to win. 21:05:07 Maybe I should run for congress. 21:06:47 unfortunately I wouldn't be able to vote for you, due to being British 21:07:52 Hmm, I could move to Britland and stand for Parliament. 21:15:30 ais523: you said earlier that you don't want to decrease the cell modulus, currently 256, by much, because it would be too quick to clear flags. with a deadfish square operation, you can achieve a clear in 9 turns if undisturbed. isn't that too fast? 21:17:00 b_jonas: oh, these operations don't affect the cells on the tape 21:17:03 with sss.-sss. 21:17:04 they're just to control the internal counter 21:17:17 ok, and how can you use the internal counter? 21:17:23 for control flow 21:17:34 just control flow? 21:17:36 yes 21:18:10 it's the only way to do, e.g., "subtract 1 from this cell 128 times" without taking up a huge amount of code space 21:18:44 by using the counter to count the iterations of a 128-iteration loop 21:18:49 in that case I hope you get more than one counter 21:19:17 like either three counters, or two counters and a way to quickly compare distance from your own flag to a constant 21:19:56 it's one counter + compare distance to marker + compare distance to own flag; the marker is a pointer to a tape cell that you can move to you current cell in zero time 21:20:01 * your 21:20:51 this has enough power to implement most of the interesting programs on the champions page, but low enough power that programs still behave somewhat predictably 21:20:53 I see 21:20:59 -!- Everything has joined. 21:21:25 do you get at least an extra boolean or two that you can clear, set, and test? 21:21:39 to ease on code space 21:21:50 no but you have an instruction pointer – boolean flags is an interesting idea though 21:22:17 I figured that repeating programs a couple of times in code space would be OK for programs that needed to do that 21:22:26 adding booleans would allow the code space to be made smaller, though 21:23:50 booleans or counters with a small limit, for things that you want to repeat a few times 21:24:29 like trying to make sure you see a cell cleared multiple times before you move past it 21:25:41 oh, antishudder loops nearly always need a different clear algorithm anyway 21:26:35 the shudders are designed to beat normal clear algorithms, so if you zero a cell and see it nonzero on the next cycle, usually you switch to a less normal algorithm for zeroing it the second time 21:26:53 or perhaps a single-level subroutine call that saves your position but not the orientation (velocity) so you can use the orientation for four different returns 21:28:54 assuming this still uses a funge/piet code space 22:00:38 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 22:27:59 shachaf: I went with an anagram for a reason :P 22:29:38 I think you have the word order wrong, "pilot release incident" actually makes sense as a noun phrase 22:29:57 (and of course, the word order doesn't matter for an anagram) 22:30:37 I wanted a software context, not an avian one. 22:30:54 you are right that that makes more sense 22:31:41 I'm sure there are better anagrams anyway. But by The Rules this is the one we're stuck with for now :P 22:42:22 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:45:13 [[!@$%^&*()+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144952&oldid=131752 * Aadenboy * (+61) distinguish 22:56:42 -!- supercode has joined. 23:11:01 -!- craigo has joined. 23:31:29 -!- Everything has quit (Quit: leaving). 23:50:13 -!- craigo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:50:36 -!- supercode has quit (Quit: Client closed). 23:50:54 -!- Noisytoot has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:53:23 -!- Noisytoot has joined. 2024-11-06: 00:25:45 [[User:ZCX islptng]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144953&oldid=144131 * ZCX islptng * (+73) 00:25:55 [[User:ZCX islptng]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144954&oldid=144953 * ZCX islptng * (-1) 00:50:43 ` the rules 00:50:45 ​? Permission denied 00:50:49 `? the rules 00:50:51 the rules? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 00:52:01 Is it by the rules, or is it by The Rules instead? 00:52:47 ` . 00:52:48 ​? Permission denied 00:53:02 `` ls -ld . 00:53:04 drwxr-xr-x 10 1000 1000 4096 Nov 4 02:25 . 00:53:09 that has execute permission! 00:53:43 `. 00:53:44 ​.? Permission denied 00:53:55 [[User:ZCX islptng/Redirect]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144955 * ZCX islptng * (+30) Redirected page to [[User:ZCX islptng]] 01:18:17 [[JSFlak]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144956 * ZCX islptng * (+1012) Created page with "Note: This is a work in progress. (idea by [[User:ZCX islptng]])
This esolang's purpose is to confuse JS programmers. File extention is . js note that space! The esolang, inspired by [[Brain-Flak]], uses 6 commands, same as [[JSFuck]]. However, th 01:28:05 -!- amby has quit (Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement). 02:21:46 Hmm, I think that's due to the manual path expansion from the umlbox init process, maybe. 02:21:53 Since there's no / in the command, it tries to exec it in turn with each directory of the path prefixed, and while it generally reports the last errno value, there's also a special piece of logic that makes EACCES sticky, for a reason I can't immediately recall. 02:22:36 And it's possible there's something in the path that's not accessible. 02:23:11 running "." manually in Bash gives me ".: filename argument required"; running "./." gives me "Is a directory"; both seem like reasonable responses 02:23:25 `env 02:23:26 PATH=/hackenv/bin:/usr/bin:/bin \ TERM=linux \ HOME=/tmp \ HACKENV=/hackenv \ IRC_INSTANCE=HackEso-libera \ IRC_NETWORK=Libera.Chat \ IRC_NICK=fizzie \ IRC_IDENT=irc \ IRC_HOST=selene.zem.fi \ IRC_COMMAND=PRIVMSG \ IRC_TARGET=#esolangs \ IRC_MESSAGE=`env \ http_proxy=http://127.0.0.1:3128 \ LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8 02:23:48 Well, it's not running in a shell with just a `. 02:24:06 `/hackenv/bin/. 02:24:07 ​/hackenv/bin/.? Permission denied 02:24:16 Hmm. 02:24:25 `` ls -d /hackenv/bin/. 02:24:27 ​/hackenv/bin/. 02:24:31 `` ls -ld /hackenv/bin/. 02:24:33 drwxr-xr-x 2 1000 1000 16384 Aug 4 18:18 /hackenv/bin/. 02:24:46 just verifying the +x permission, even though it's obviously there 02:28:05 `/bin/bash /hackenv/bin/. 02:28:06 ​/hackenv/bin/.: /hackenv/bin/.: Is a directory 02:28:25 Well, I don't know exactly what's up with that. 02:28:29 `` echo $'#include \n#include \n#include \nextern char **environ; int main(int argc, char **argv) { execve("/", argv, environ); perror("execve"); }' | gcc -x c /dev/stdin -o /tmp/test && /tmp/test 02:28:31 execve: Permission denied 02:29:13 ais523: just . runs the builtin command . which tries to run a script in a way that it affects the state of the shell where you execute it 02:29:31 yes 02:29:40 that doesn't have much to do with the directory named . , it's just a silly synonym for shell 02:29:42 According to man execve, it can fail with EISDIR, but only if "An ELF interpreter was a directory" 02:29:50 I guess maybe that's just what execve returns, then, even if it's a little odd for a directory. 02:29:53 assuming the filesystem is in a remotely reasonable state, . must always be a directory so it can safely be reused for a shell builtin 02:29:54 (though not as silly as what windows cmd inherited from DOS command) 02:30:07 I am not sure how Linux reacts to filesystems where . or .. symlinks point to weird places 02:30:27 shachaf: ooh, that's a fun failure mode 02:31:45 ais523: can filesystems do that? I thought that's done in the cache layer independent of the individual file systems, not the fs-dependent drivers, because .. needs to point outside of the mount point on a directory on which an fs is mounted, plus it's generic anyway. at most the file system driver makes sure that there's a .. entry written in the directory for compatibility with old file systems 02:33:51 b_jonas: they shouldn't be able to do that, at least – I don't know whether or not they can anyway 02:34:13 or, hmm, . and .. are hardlinks, aren't they? not symlinks 02:34:16 bash has its own wrappers, I think execve itself just fails with EACCESS 02:34:29 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 02:34:30 this is why the link count of a directory goes up as it's given more subdirectories, they all have their .. hardlinked to it 02:35:25 I'm guessing fuse isn't allowed, the in kernel drivers obviously don't have access control 02:36:14 and that's just the historical reason for the link count, now it goes up on some file systems because they pretend to be like old file systems 02:36:46 yes – I suspected that nowadays it's just done to match the historical behaviour 02:37:16 I have a strong suspicion that the whole "start a filename with . to hide it" came about because some really old version of ls just checked the first character to see if a file was . or .. 02:37:26 and then it was kept because it was useful 02:40:24 IIUC the oldest version of the open syscall didn't even take a pathname made of an arbitrary number of path components, it took two arguments with one path component each instead (plus other arguments that aren't strings) 02:41:10 so you would need chdir to open files in nested directories? 02:41:26 more likely you'd have hardlinks to every useful directory from your home directory 03:58:20 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:30:47 -!- divbyzero has joined. 05:17:39 -!- divbyzero has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:50:44 -!- tromp has joined. 07:32:42 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 07:46:54 -!- tromp has joined. 07:47:46 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 07:48:47 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 07:50:45 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 08:03:06 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:08:30 [[User:Superstitionfreeblog]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144957&oldid=144946 * Superstitionfreeblog * (+1261) /* Example Programs */ 08:11:10 Moin 09:07:35 -!- supercode has joined. 09:10:27 ok, so what I said yesterday about unix v1 definitely doesn't seem to apply to unix v1. I must have misremembered something. 09:27:22 -!- supercode has quit (Quit: Client closed). 09:49:35 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 10:54:16 -!- amby has joined. 11:40:19 -!- Everything has joined. 11:45:53 [[Bynary]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144958&oldid=113600 * Froginstarch * (+9) 12:09:12 -!- moony1 has joined. 12:10:52 -!- moony has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:10:52 -!- moony1 has changed nick to moony. 12:12:08 [[SML]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144959&oldid=144894 * Froginstarch * (+8) 12:12:19 [[STRTRAN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144960&oldid=144694 * Froginstarch * (+8) 12:12:45 [[STRTRAN]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144961&oldid=144960 * Froginstarch * (+0) 12:15:24 -!- iddi01 has joined. 12:15:55 !ztest beta-2 https://pastebin.com/raw/sUX4Zn54 12:15:55 iddi01.beta-2: points 13.83, score 36.84, rank 3/47 12:16:14 !ztest beta https://pastebin.com/raw/sUX4Zn54 12:16:14 iddi01.beta: points 13.88, score 37.20, rank 3/47 (+2) 12:16:42 !zjoust beta https://pastebin.com/raw/sUX4Zn54 12:16:42 iddi01.beta: points 13.88, score 37.20, rank 3/47 (+2) 12:20:25 !zjoust another_rush_program 12:20:26 iddi01.another_rush_program: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 (-35) 12:20:41 !zjoust beta https://pastebin.com/raw/sUX4Zn54 12:20:41 iddi01.beta: points 15.40, score 39.71, rank 2/47 (--) 12:27:46 -!- moony has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:28:00 -!- moony has joined. 12:29:06 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 12:40:49 ^echo !zjoust 21-34-127 (>(+)*21>(-)*21)*4(>[(-)*127.-.-.>])*21 what follows is due to the design of the fungоt echo command 12:40:49 !zjoust 21-34-127 (>(+)*21>(-)*21)*4(>[(-)*127.-.-.>])*21 what follows is due to the design of the fungоt echo command !zjoust 21-34-127 (>(+)*21>(-)*21)*4(>[(-)*127.-.-.>])*21 what follows is due to the de ... 12:40:49 fungot.21-34-127: points -5.14, score 15.68, rank 34/47 12:40:50 zemhill: care to share? do you want to have it 12:41:15 !zjoust beta https://pastebin.com/raw/sUX4Zn54 12:41:16 iddi01.beta: points 14.17, score 37.96, rank 2/47 (--) 12:44:43 ^echo !zjoust 21-34-127 12:44:43 !zjoust 21-34-127 !zjoust 21-34-127 12:44:43 fungot.21-34-127: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 (-13) 12:44:44 zemhill: in scsh ( 31, specifically) and scsh, and chicken has recently grown one, to use either, matter of taste. 12:46:55 -!- wib_jonas has joined. 12:50:28 -!- iddi01 has quit (Quit: Client closed). 12:56:15 -!- iddi01 has joined. 12:56:18 -!- Everything has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:57:18 ^echo 21-31-106 (>(+)*21>(-)*21)*4(>[(-)*106(-.)*42>])*21 what follows is due to the design of the fungоt echo command 12:57:18 21-31-106 (>(+)*21>(-)*21)*4(>[(-)*106(-.)*42>])*21 what follows is due to the design of the fungоt echo command 21-31-106 (>(+)*21>(-)*21)*4(>[(-)*106(-.)*42>])*21 what follows is due to the design of the ... 12:57:39 ^echo !zjoust 21-31-106 (>(+)*21>(-)*21)*4(>[(-)*106(-.)*42>])*21 what follows is due to the design of the fungоt echo command 12:57:39 !zjoust 21-31-106 (>(+)*21>(-)*21)*4(>[(-)*106(-.)*42>])*21 what follows is due to the design of the fungоt echo command !zjoust 21-31-106 (>(+)*21>(-)*21)*4(>[(-)*106(-.)*42>])*21 what follows is due to th ... 12:57:39 fungot.21-31-106: points -3.36, score 17.76, rank 31/47 12:57:40 zemhill: languages like python that have very little attention to detail in others? (:)) here at fnord uni they teach clean and c++ 12:58:05 !zjoust beta https://pastebin.com/raw/sUX4Zn54 12:58:05 iddi01.beta: points 14.31, score 38.20, rank 1/47 (--) 12:58:16 -!- Everything has joined. 12:58:32 ^echo `echo y e s  i  w o n 12:58:32 `echo y e s  i  w o n `echo y e s  i  w o n 12:58:34 y e s  i  w o n `echo y e s  i  w o n 13:09:23 [[BF Joust champions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144962&oldid=144729 * Iddi01 * (+29) /* 2024 */ has been updated, and is now the champion in all six scoring systems! 13:15:56 that's a good idea 13:15:57 perlbot call Nh.2codS5EZi 13:16:01 wib_jonas: ^ul (perlbot call Nh.2codS5EZi )S( 13 )! 13:16:52 ^ul (call Nh.2codS5EZi ) 13:17:01 ^ul (call Nh.2codS5EZi )S 13:17:01 call Nh.2codS5EZi 13:17:09 ^ul (perlbot call Nh.2codS5EZi )S 13:17:09 perlbot call Nh.2codS5EZi 13:17:13 fungot: ^ul (call Nh.2codS5EZi )S( 12 )! 13:17:29 hmm 13:18:08 I could nick to start my nick with ^ and I think perlbot would reply starting with ^ but that only works once 13:18:54 beacuse perlbot won't reply fungоt that way 13:20:11 [[!@$%^&*()+=]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144963&oldid=144950 * Xyzzy * (+1626) 13:20:49 [[!@$%^&*()+=]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144964&oldid=144963 * Xyzzy * (-7) 13:21:19 [[User:Xyzzy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144965&oldid=138604 * Xyzzy * (+95) 13:22:06 both perlbot and fungot are willing to reply in private message without mentioning your nick in the reply, so they could loop in private message, but that's hard to start 13:22:06 wib_jonas: if you have 2 messages." " yeah, i've seen 13:22:21 in buubot1 it was trivial, but fortunately buubot3 no longer has that feature 13:34:27 I'd probably checked this already and just forgot 13:48:00 -!- Guest68 has joined. 13:48:48 -!- Guest68 has quit (Client Quit). 13:49:58 [[JSFlak]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144966&oldid=144956 * ZCX islptng * (+2289) interpreter 13:55:39 -!- tromp has joined. 14:20:51 -!- Hoolooboo has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb2+deb11u1 - https://znc.in). 14:40:23 -!- iddi01 has quit (Quit: Client closed). 14:46:25 [[TxeT]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144967 * None1 * (+12462) Created page with "''txeT''' is a language which constantly output its reversed source code. This language seems in the same computational class as [[Text]]. Btw, a program is a quine iff it is palindrome. The file extension of its source code is '''.txt''' since '''txt''' is the reversed ver 14:47:16 [[TxeT]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144968&oldid=144967 * None1 * (+51) 14:47:40 [[Text]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144969&oldid=144929 * None1 * (+5) 14:48:04 [[Txet]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144970&oldid=144921 * None1 * (+5) 14:49:05 [[TxeT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144971&oldid=144968 * None1 * (+18) 14:49:38 -!- Everything has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:51:05 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:52:25 [[TxeT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144972&oldid=144971 * None1 * (+242) 14:52:38 [[TxeT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144973&oldid=144972 * None1 * (+3) 14:55:41 [[TxeT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144974&oldid=144973 * None1 * (+33) /* Built-in interpreters */ 14:56:07 [[TxeT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144975&oldid=144974 * None1 * (+30) /* Interpreters */ 14:56:33 [[TxeT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144976&oldid=144975 * None1 * (+13) 14:57:28 [[Joke language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144977&oldid=144202 * None1 * (+11) /* General languages */ 15:51:48 [[BF Joust champions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144978&oldid=144962 * Iddi01 * (+63) /* 2024 */ Fix link, also it's not six but four scoring systems with as champion 15:52:24 -!- baldibacak has joined. 16:08:59 -!- baldibacak has quit (Quit: Client closed). 16:16:13 -!- Sgeo has joined. 16:20:59 [[-Output]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144979&oldid=128365 * EvyLah * (-132) /* Stack manipulation */ remove `V` cuz I don't see a use for it lol 16:31:27 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Zasharan2 * New user account 16:33:32 -!- wryl has quit. 16:35:15 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144980&oldid=144818 * Zasharan2 * (+161) 16:42:05 -!- wib_jonas has quit (Quit: Client closed). 17:02:00 [[Slink]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144981&oldid=144735 * 3cxpy * (-25) 17:18:35 [[Chronos]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144982 * Zasharan2 * (+3079) Created page with "'''Chronos''' is a two dimensional esoteric programming language based off of [[Befunge]], with the ability to time travel. ==Time Travel== Chronos offers the ability for instruction pointers (cursors) to time travel. The language does not actually track time; rather 17:28:07 [[Chronos]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144983&oldid=144982 * Zasharan2 * (+2) 17:31:31 [[Chronos]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144984&oldid=144983 * Zasharan2 * (+151) 17:32:05 [[Chronos]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144985&oldid=144984 * Zasharan2 * (-2) 17:35:43 [[Chronos]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144986&oldid=144985 * Zasharan2 * (-26) 17:40:21 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144987&oldid=144670 * Zasharan2 * (+14) 17:57:40 another weird thing that a joust game could do is where it has a powerful computer but with rather delayed reaction. the fast body of the submission executes one of 8 instructions every round depending on its current instruction pointer, each instruction is either [ with two next instruction addresses or one of . - + < > with one next instruction address. the powerful computer has enough memory and CPU 17:57:46 time to do complicated unpredictable strategies, and emits 8 fresh instructions each round, but only learns about the result of [ instructions (or the current state) with a delay of like 108 rounds. 17:58:36 but this has the drawback that it's much more inefficient to run the matches 19:05:30 -!- Guest82 has joined. 19:05:47 hey what do uou think of this esopang?: https://esolangs.org/wiki/%3FQ%3F 19:05:53 yes i made it 19:07:09 I've not heard of SQ compression before. Do you have a link? 19:08:01 its pn tyat wikipedia 19:08:09 page  lnkedø 19:08:12 i think 19:08:26 wait no 19:12:15 here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_file_formats 19:13:08 Ah, it's a historical format predating LZW. Interesting. 19:13:21 lol 19:17:53 -!- Guest82 has quit (Quit: Client closed). 19:18:03 -!- Guest60 has joined. 19:19:51 so what do you think? 19:22:24 korvo 19:22:59 Guest60: I don't know enough about Squeeze or SQ to understand the choices that you made. 19:23:15 oh it isnt related 19:23:17 lol 19:23:23 Oh. Well, it's not really compelling otherwise. 19:23:36 lol 19:26:41 -!- Guest60 has quit (Quit: Client closed). 19:54:22 Just Solve The File Format Problem wiki also has many file formats (including ?Q? which is how I had known about it at first) 20:38:18 -!- wryl has joined. 21:02:00 -!- Everything has joined. 21:09:12 [[Chronos]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144988&oldid=144986 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+131) Categories 21:23:13 [[User:Aadenboy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144989&oldid=144348 * Aadenboy * (-54) remove shadow 21:27:56 -!- Everything has quit (Quit: leaving). 21:44:14 -!- Hooloovoo has joined. 22:24:55 -!- Everything has joined. 22:49:06 -!- ais523 has joined. 22:56:23 -!- supercode has joined. 22:56:26 -!- lynndotpy has quit (Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)). 22:56:45 -!- lynndotpy has joined. 22:58:55 -!- j4cbo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:59:30 -!- errilaz_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 23:00:08 -!- errilaz has joined. 23:02:27 -!- j4cbo has joined. 23:04:08 [[Nope.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144990&oldid=144922 * None1 * (+21) /* Txet */ 23:04:23 [[Nope.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144991&oldid=144990 * None1 * (+1) /* txeT */ 23:23:16 -!- visilii has quit (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in). 23:23:34 -!- visilii has joined. 23:27:18 -!- Everything has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:27:43 -!- visilii has quit (Client Quit). 23:28:36 -!- visilii has joined. 2024-11-07: 00:14:57 -!- supercode has quit (Quit: Client closed). 00:48:12 -!- amby has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:48:30 -!- amby has joined. 01:50:59 -!- amby has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:03:36 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:04:50 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 03:22:22 -!- craigo has joined. 03:40:52 -!- chiselfuse has quit (*.net *.split). 03:47:56 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 03:50:41 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 05:21:41 -!- divbyzero has joined. 05:47:37 -!- divbyzero has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:09:05 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:09:20 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 06:18:18 [[User:ZCX islptng]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144992&oldid=144954 * ZCX islptng * (+157) categories 07:38:27 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:48:13 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:50:14 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 07:59:36 [["python"]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144993&oldid=144945 * Ractangle * (+45) 08:01:02 [[Xuki]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144994&oldid=144881 * Ractangle * (+42) /* Syntax */ 08:01:27 [[Xuki]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144995&oldid=144994 * Ractangle * (+2) /* A+B Problem */ 08:02:32 [[Xuki]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144996&oldid=144995 * Ractangle * (+4) /* A+B Problem */ 08:03:11 [[Xuki]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144997&oldid=144996 * Ractangle * (+43) /* Syntax */ 08:09:07 [['Python' is not recognized]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=144998&oldid=144917 * Ractangle * (+393) fuck this i am setting this to the old thing 09:03:31 -!- supercode has joined. 09:31:20 [[Mmr]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=144999 * Iddi01 * (+7234) Why do i like to create lng that are a pain to program in 09:41:11 -!- supercode has quit (Quit: Client closed). 09:56:14 [[User:Iddi01]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145000&oldid=144559 * Iddi01 * (+217) I'm so lucky to have an username befitting the perfect recursive acronym, also, [[Memory]] 10:01:42 [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145001&oldid=144987 * Iddi01 * (+16) /* M */ Decided to ignore unicode values this time 10:23:00 -!- tromp has joined. 10:35:02 [[Talk:Null program]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145002&oldid=13397 * Ractangle * (+478) /* is Null program a quine? */ new section 10:35:21 [[Talk:Null program]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145003&oldid=145002 * Ractangle * (+28) /* is Null program a quine? */ 10:39:33 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 10:40:29 [[6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145004&oldid=141086 * Ractangle * (+42) /* 15 */ 10:41:24 [[User talk:ZCX islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145005&oldid=144721 * None1 * (+324) 10:46:13 [[User talk:ZCX islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145006&oldid=145005 * Ractangle * (+201) /* Grade */ 10:47:46 [["python"]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145007&oldid=144993 * Ractangle * (+30) /* Syntax */ 10:48:02 [["python"]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145008&oldid=145007 * Ractangle * (+6) /* Syntax */ 11:53:31 Hi 11:56:24 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 12:03:33 [[!aoQ):]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145009&oldid=92233 * Ractangle * (+48) /* Commands */ 12:06:30 -!- amby has joined. 12:07:21 [[Unhappy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145010&oldid=143272 * Ractangle * (-64) /* :( */ 12:37:55 -!- tromp has joined. 12:44:43 -!- amby has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 12:58:13 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:20:28 [[Talk:FlipFlop]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145011&oldid=135023 * ZCX islptng * (+106) 13:29:11 [[User talk:None1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145012&oldid=144196 * ZCX islptng * (+386) dammit 13:39:54 [[Pick]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145013 * None1 * (+4709) Created page with "'''Pick''' is an esolang invented by [[User:None1]]. It is based on randomly picking stuff. ==Data storage== Pick has a set of unbounded unsigned integers, and three unbounded unsigned accmulators A, B and C. Initially, the set is empty, and the accumulators are zero. ===C= 13:41:43 -!- Argorok has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 13:44:14 [[Pick]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145014&oldid=145013 * None1 * (+496) /* Computational class */ 13:44:41 [[Pick]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145015&oldid=145014 * None1 * (+5) /* Commands */ 13:45:10 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145016&oldid=145001 * None1 * (+11) /* P */ 13:47:30 [[User:None1]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145017&oldid=144462 * None1 * (+92) /* My Esolangs */ 13:52:39 [[Chronos]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145018&oldid=144988 * Zasharan2 * (+100) 14:02:18 -!- tromp has joined. 14:31:27 [[Talk:Null program]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145019&oldid=145003 * None1 * (+375) /* is Null program a quine? */ 14:36:47 -!- amby has joined. 14:44:48 [[Talk:Null program]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145020&oldid=145019 * None1 * (+673) /* Another definition or two */ [[null program]] vs [[NOP]]. 14:47:22 [[Null program]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145021&oldid=73373 * None1 * (+72) 14:47:41 [[Null program]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145022&oldid=145021 * None1 * (+2) 14:48:32 [[Nop]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145023&oldid=112279 * None1 * (+83) 14:48:46 [[Nop]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145024&oldid=145023 * None1 * (+5) 15:31:27 -!- Sgeo has joined. 15:48:54 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 16:52:55 -!- tromp has joined. 17:02:09 -!- craigo has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:31:48 [[MEMORYLEEK]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145025&oldid=141866 * Aadenboy * (+117) proposal; revert if false 18:11:44 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 18:33:09 -!- tromp has joined. 18:44:01 -!- impomatic has joined. 18:57:58 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: Client closed). 18:58:24 -!- impomatic has joined. 19:13:57 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:20:39 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 19:24:08 -!- zzo38 has joined. 19:28:09 -!- impomatic has joined. 19:50:24 [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145026&oldid=145016 * Robotosaurus6502 * (+10) Added JIT to this page. 19:50:35 [[JIT]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145027 * Robotosaurus6502 * (+903) A OISC named JIT was added to the wiki. 20:27:30 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 20:27:33 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:29:04 we have this silly idea for a python extension, how does it look? https://bpa.st/TPKWY 20:45:11 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 20:47:04 -!- Sgeo__ has joined. 20:47:26 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:50:34 "exception-oriented programming" 21:07:39 Like continuation-passing style? 21:09:05 This RPython-compatible macro may be interesting too: https://github.com/monte-language/typhon/blob/master/typhon/macros.py#L253-L281 21:28:42 -!- impomatic has joined. 21:29:13 I'm in Cambridge this weekend, running a Core War tournament at the Retro Computer Festival. 21:29:18 -!- molson_ has joined. 21:32:34 -!- molson has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:32:49 korvo: like taking "easier to ask for forgiveness than permission" to the extreme 21:35:48 the macro doesn't appear relevant 21:37:21 Night * 21:39:56 Soni: Well, how would y'all handle an exception while an exception is being handled? 21:40:18 Continuation-passing style gives an easy answer: heap-allocate two continuations. 21:40:52 korvo: like any other language? 21:41:13 we believe python adds it as a cause 21:47:07 [[Nop]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145028&oldid=145024 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-6) 21:52:18 -!- tromp has joined. 21:54:54 -!- Everything has joined. 21:56:49 -!- ais523 has joined. 22:33:45 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 22:50:25 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:58:04 -!- Everything has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:21:18 -!- supercode has joined. 23:23:46 -!- supercode has quit (Client Quit). 2024-11-08: 00:10:29 [[JIT]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145029&oldid=145027 * Aadenboy * (+10) stubbing 00:13:26 [[MEMORYLEEK]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145030&oldid=145025 * Aadenboy * (-1) /* Instructions */ fixed table issue... 02:16:51 -!- amby has quit (Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement). 03:58:18 In Magic: the Gathering, what happens if an object's text somehow changes while that object is resolving? 04:04:46 (Is this possible with some combinations of official cards?) 06:17:58 [[Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145031&oldid=144302 * Iddi01 * (-1193) /* List of candidates */ Still seems too inappropriate and not special enough, removing my proposal 07:01:01 -!- tromp has joined. 07:15:50 zzo38: I don't think it's possible, all the text changers I can think of affect an object for as long as it's on the stack / in play and start applying during the resolution of the text changer 07:17:35 ah wait, there is one I missed: Exchange of Words ("For as long as Exchange of Words is on the battlefield, exchange the text boxes of those creatures"), that does something like what you want but it only affects cards on the battlefield so it can't affect a spell while it's resolving 07:29:03 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 07:43:40 [[User:Tommyaweosme/Brainfuck but its tilted a bit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145032&oldid=130058 * Iddi01 * (-46289) This page is now in sync with the actual article 07:44:47 [[Variambda]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145033 * ZCX islptng * (+999) Created page with "This is another esolang by islptng. The title, is a mixture of "Variable" and "lambda".
The only thing you can do in this esolang is define a variambda. ==Syntax== Line to define a variambda: name(arguments)return_value=initial_value if (arguments) re 07:48:53 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 07:49:36 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:51:28 [[Variambda]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145034&oldid=145033 * ZCX islptng * (+389) 07:51:49 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 08:01:05 -!- Sgeo__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:25:38 -!- tromp has joined. 08:30:31 [[Talk:FlipFlop]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145035&oldid=145011 * Ractangle * (+206) 08:32:12 [[User talk:ZCX islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145036&oldid=145006 * Ractangle * (+29) /* Grade */ 09:27:43 -!- impomatic has joined. 10:04:02 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 10:22:57 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 10:36:41 -!- tromp has joined. 10:43:32 Hi 10:51:11 [[6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145037&oldid=145004 * Ractangle * (-47) Firstly. This Chinese text is kind of useless. Second. Doesn't batch tell us that the program is done? 12:04:43 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: Client closed). 12:32:09 -!- visilii has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:40:52 [[User talk:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145038&oldid=143810 * ZCX islptng * (+348) 13:50:25 [[Talk:The Genius from Kiev]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145039 * Yayimhere * (+104) Created page with "where is 4????? ~~~~" 13:50:38 -!- Awoobis has changed nick to gAy_Dragon. 13:55:20 [[StackMachine]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145040 * ZCX islptng * (+2465) Created page with "This is an ordinary stack-based esolang that was created by a Discord bot(antigollark). ===First answer=== push: Pushes a value onto the stack. pop: Pops a value from the stack and discards it. dup: Duplicates the top value on the stack. swap: Swaps the t 13:56:35 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 14:04:52 [[Python But WORST]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145041&oldid=141414 * Stysan * (+166) added examples 14:24:40 -!- tromp has joined. 14:28:04 -!- amby has joined. 14:33:10 [[StackMachine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145042&oldid=145040 * ZCX islptng * (+263) rot 15:00:27 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 15:01:16 -!- tromp has joined. 15:03:03 [[User talk:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145043&oldid=145038 * Ractangle * (+164) /* */ 15:23:59 [[BAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145044&oldid=143628 * Ractangle * (+56) /* Commands */ 15:24:11 [[BAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145045&oldid=145044 * Ractangle * (-5) /* Hello, world! */ 15:24:46 [[BAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145046&oldid=145045 * Ractangle * (-3) /* Commands */ 15:55:56 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 16:13:49 -!- amby has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:15:34 -!- tromp has joined. 17:04:51 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 17:15:14 -!- trumae has joined. 17:16:27 -!- Artea has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.9.1 - https://znc.in). 17:38:28 -!- tromp has joined. 17:47:14 -!- Sgeo has joined. 17:47:27 korvo: specifically, we'd just use unwinding 17:49:04 there are some funny GC tricks you can do to preserve stack traces when doing EOP while still getting much better performance than traditional stack walking/unwinding but they're unnecessary for an esolang toy 17:49:18 so "just patch it into python" is probably fine 17:51:29 -!- trumae has quit (Quit: trumae). 18:04:19 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 18:24:52 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:25:45 Soni: Sure, whatever works. 19:24:14 -!- tromp has joined. 19:52:04 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 20:10:22 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 20:15:11 [[User talk:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145047&oldid=145043 * Ractangle * (+32) /* */ 20:16:34 -!- tromp has joined. 20:47:26 [[BAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145048&oldid=145046 * Ractangle * (+29) /* Examples */ 20:47:34 [[BAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145049&oldid=145048 * Ractangle * (-3) /* Commands */ 20:48:07 [[BAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145050&oldid=145049 * Ractangle * (-78) /* Commands */ 20:49:36 [[BAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145051&oldid=145050 * Ractangle * (+78) 20:50:21 [[BAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145052&oldid=145051 * Ractangle * (+66) /* Truth-machine */ 20:50:36 [[BAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145053&oldid=145052 * Ractangle * (+3) /* Hello, world! */ 21:18:26 [[Variambda]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145054&oldid=145034 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+110) Categories 21:19:25 [[StackMachine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145055&oldid=145042 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+94) Categories 21:34:21 -!- visilii has joined. 22:13:43 -!- Everything has joined. 22:53:17 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 23:07:05 -!- amby has joined. 23:54:50 -!- Everything has quit (Quit: leaving). 2024-11-09: 00:04:36 I got my tagless-final version of Brainfuck working: https://github.com/rpypkgs/rpypkgs/blob/main/bf/bf.py 00:05:36 Final encodings of optimizers are tricky because the abstract domain has to be written down explicitly. It turns out that encoding the semantics as a monoid was also important because it removed the question of whether an individual instruction is a sequence of actions. 00:06:45 I'm contemplating in #pypy whether I should write a blog post comparing it to other interpreters. I think it's got pretty good times: 2.5s for mandel.b and 0.1s for bench.b when JIT is enabled. 00:11:43 [[Algebraic Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145056&oldid=143889 * Corbin * (+167) Add link to an example interpreter. 00:37:12 [[Sharp flat]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145057&oldid=112349 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+36) /* Example Programs */ 00:54:51 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:00:11 [[BF (category)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145058 * Corbin * (+2616) Lay out a category. 01:00:35 But Is It Brainfuck? 01:04:46 [[BF]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145059&oldid=131222 * Corbin * (-38) Three's a crowd; clean up and make disambiguation parens explicit. 01:07:56 Okay, done for now. Dinner before more edits. Main driving question: if you can't poly-time reduce it to something resembling original Brainfuck, then is it really a Brainfuck equivalent? Similarly, if you can't embed original Brainfuck in it in poly time, is it really a Brainfuck derivative? 01:17:45 -!- ais523 has joined. 01:35:48 -!- amby has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:46:55 [[User:Salpynx/Going to Zagreb to buy a pony]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145060 * Salpynx * (+4645) I asked ChatGPT to describe this language after a bit of priming, it has provided some other helpful suggestions in line with ideas I already had. Perhaps this is more of a collaboration than pure AI nonsense. Some of it is mine. WIP. 01:48:41 [[User:Salpynx/Going to Zagreb to buy a pony]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145061&oldid=145060 * Salpynx * (+22) heading levels 02:40:31 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:40:46 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 03:33:29 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:36:24 I had mentione before that sometimes the cursor blinking stops working in some windows temporarily, usually soon after the computer starts, but this time it is doing it now instead. (It is affecting most of the windows (including this one) but not all of them.) 04:22:11 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:30:29 -!- zzo38 has joined. 05:34:05 [[The nutjob from wellington]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145062 * Gggfr * (+1192) Created page with "{{WIP}} '''the nutjob from wellington''' is an [[esolang]] created by [[User:yayimhere]] to do two things: * complete the trilogy of the _ from _. * look like [[The Genius from Kiev]] and have triggers like [[The Amnesiac From Minsk]] but be different i 05:34:25 [[The nutjob from wellington]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145063&oldid=145062 * Gggfr * (+2) /* semantics and syntax */ 05:58:00 [[MEMORYLEEK]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145064&oldid=145030 * Aadenboy * (+29) update influenced list, use distinguish template 05:59:21 Is it possible with GCC with -rdynamic but to only export the functions in one of the .o files into dynamic libraries but not all of the .o files? 06:07:11 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:07:32 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 06:30:13 -!- sdr123 has joined. 06:53:36 [[StackMachine]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145065&oldid=145055 * ZCX islptng * (+29) someone forgot an important category 07:00:37 -!- sdr123 has quit (Quit: Client closed). 07:32:41 [[The nutjob from wellington]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145066&oldid=145063 * Yayimhere * (+1539) 07:40:08 [[Mmr]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145067&oldid=144999 * Iddi01 * (+30136) Fix obvious bug in interpreter that make "Remember: x" commands not work on entry additions 07:44:07 -!- wWwwW has joined. 07:44:29 i wanted to share this crime agianst humanity lol: https://esolangs.org/wiki/The_nutjob_from_wellington 07:44:29 what do you guys think 07:44:30 and is anything unclear? if so tell me 07:49:56 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 07:51:06 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:51:19 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 07:55:22 also nutjob means sphycopath 08:15:55 [[4 esolang + Python polyglot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145068&oldid=117526 * Ractangle * (-10) /* External Resources */ 08:25:18 hello? 08:58:42 -!- tromp has joined. 09:35:10 [['Python' is not recognized]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145069&oldid=144998 * Ractangle * (+74) /* Syntax */ 09:39:59 [['Python' is not recognized]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145070&oldid=145069 * Ractangle * (-79) /* Unfinished Truth-machine */ 09:42:29 -!- tromp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:52:13 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:25:00 [['Python' is not recognized]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145071&oldid=145070 * Ractangle * (-33) /* Truth-machine */ 10:25:13 ? 10:25:34 [[List of quines]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145072&oldid=144932 * Ractangle * (-45) /* 'Python' is not recognized */ 10:25:46 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 10:31:57 -!- wWwwW30 has joined. 10:34:41 -!- wWwwW has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:37:31 -!- wWwwW30 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 10:53:32 [[User:PrySigneToFry/Sandbox/My Rate to the user that I know]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145073&oldid=142197 * PrySigneToFry * (+50) 10:55:51 [[User talk:ZCX islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145074&oldid=145036 * PrySigneToFry * (+691) 10:58:02 [[User talk:ZCX islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145075&oldid=145074 * PrySigneToFry * (+144) 10:59:07 [[User:PrySigneToFry/Sandbox/My Rate to the user that I know]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145076&oldid=145073 * PrySigneToFry * (+9) 11:02:09 [[User talk:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145077&oldid=144150 * PrySigneToFry * (+116) 11:03:10 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 11:05:45 [[HZ3funge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145078&oldid=135779 * PrySigneToFry * (+171) 11:07:28 [[BubbleLang/Operators]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145079&oldid=143772 * PrySigneToFry * (+176) 11:10:14 [[AH'TALIQUAE ENGLISH/Extension]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145080&oldid=143279 * PrySigneToFry * (+425) 11:11:25 [[User talk:Tommyaweosme]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145081&oldid=145077 * Ais523 * (-116) Reverted edit by [[Special:Contributions/PrySigneToFry|PrySigneToFry]] ([[User talk:PrySigneToFry|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:Ais523|Ais523]] 11:40:36 [[AH'TALIQUAE ENGLISH/Extension]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145082&oldid=145080 * PrySigneToFry * (+129) 12:05:59 -!- amby has joined. 13:54:46 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 14:48:53 -!- wWwwW has joined. 15:00:06 [[Polyglot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145083&oldid=134885 * MihaiEso * (+0) 15:07:51 [[Collab]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145084&oldid=137057 * Qawtykit * (+318) added two commands 15:08:13 plz gimme feedback 15:40:37 [[6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145085&oldid=145037 * Ractangle * (+111) 15:41:24 [[6]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145086&oldid=145085 * Ractangle * (+10) /* Online interpreters */ 15:46:03 [[Python But WORST!!]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145087 * MihaiEso * (+893) Created page with "Python but WORST!! is designed by Mihai Popa. It's just like [[Python But WORST]], but if the program '''''doesn't''''' have a 15:47:45 [[User:MihaiEso]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145088&oldid=144021 * MihaiEso * (+74) 15:48:17 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145089&oldid=145026 * MihaiEso * (+34) 15:48:22 plz 15:49:20 [[Python but WORST!!]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145090 * MihaiEso * (+32) Redirected page to [[Python But WORST!!]] 15:50:06 [[Python But WORST!!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145091&oldid=145087 * MihaiEso * (-5) 15:51:18 [[Python But WORST!!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145092&oldid=145091 * MihaiEso * (-50) 15:53:04 [[Python But WORST]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145093&oldid=145041 * MihaiEso * (+22) /* See also */ 15:53:11 [[Python But WORST]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145094&oldid=145093 * MihaiEso * (+1) /* See also */ 16:04:15 [[Everyonelang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145095&oldid=130110 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (-163) 16:07:02 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:07:13 [[Category:Generated by AI]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145096&oldid=139415 * MihaiEso * (+43) 16:07:22 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 16:36:02 [[-5 bytes ;)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145097&oldid=144547 * Ractangle * (+82) /* Implementation */ 16:37:49 [[-5 bytes ;)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145098&oldid=145097 * Ractangle * (+162) /* Implementation */ 17:11:56 wWwwW: I'm not sure how it's related to the other two similarly-named languages. 17:41:35 wWwwW: BTW I hacked out a stub for deciding whether a syntax is a Brainfuck equivalent/derivative; LMK what you think: https://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_(category) 17:46:58 [[Where is my esolang?]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145099 * ZCX islptng * (+537) Created page with "yet another esolang by islptng i'm too busy to write detail here 
 where is my [name]? # define variable  I've forgot where I put [name] for the [number][st/nd/rd/th] time! # name <- number  let me think about it. after I used my [name] the last tim
17:49:18  korvo: moslty its(as the names jokes shows) as long away from both langs, but still have derived concept while still beiong nothing like them:]
17:52:54  korvo: Hmm. How would you capture algebraically that +>+<->-< is a no-op? Not that people are likely to write that kind of code.
17:55:59  [[Algebraic Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145100&oldid=145056 * Int-e * (+0) pick a nit
17:57:57  (My own toy BF intermediate language is  type Offset = Integer, data BF = Add Offset Integer | Input Ofs | Output Ofs | Loop Offset [BF] | ... where ... captures higher level building blocks that may arise from recognizing certain idioms. The Offset in loops is for accounting for things like [>] that shift the pointer on each iteration.)
17:58:42  [[Where is my esolang?]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145101&oldid=145099 * ZCX islptng * (+492) 
17:59:40  And the point of tracking offsets is that all Add instructions commute with one another.
18:00:15  int-e: Good example. The monoid isn't finitely generated, so there will always be new rules that could be added to an optimizer.
18:00:32  ISTR that this is a fundamental feature of TC systems, but I have no idea who said it or how they phrased it.
18:00:49  bur korvo other thsn thta detail what do you thinkj?
18:01:03  Oh sure, you run into Rice' theorem sooner or later.
18:01:24  wWwwW: I'm not a fan, but I'm also not a fan of the source languages. They don't really feel rewarding to me.
18:02:21  lol
18:02:29  Hmm, what's the better possessive? Rice' or Rice's?
18:02:37  Amnesiac From Minsk starts out as Minsky-style counter machines. No thank you! The only time I've appreciated those is in the proof that Braid is TC.
18:03:05  Yeah Minsky machines are a great target for proving things TC.
18:03:08  Ha, I've never seen "Rice'" before, but it makes sense phonetically.
18:03:15  And an awful target for "real" programming.
18:04:29  It's a bit like combinatory logic.
18:04:53  true
18:04:55  You generally don't want to write Minsky machines directly. You want to compile to them.
18:05:01  it isnt rlly but like kinda is
18:05:03  ehwutever
18:05:53  Heck, Brainfuck with bounded tape and unbounded cells is a better Minsky machine.
18:06:05  In terms of programmability.
18:07:29  true
18:07:33  There's something psychological about it. Numberphile is famous for using lots of sheets of paper; I wonder how folks would feel if they instead wrote every theorem and statement with a unique ideogram? That's how counter machines feel to me.
18:08:02  if you jumped in BF it would just be a minsky machine with infinite registers and a pointer
18:08:12  korvo: lol thats funny
18:08:57  korvo: I don't know what it is tbh. There's something cozy about loops, despite the struggle to make conditionals from them.
18:09:27  This may be Stockholm syndrome. I've spent quite a bit of time of my life actually writing Brainfuck code.
18:10:27  (And very little time constructing Minsky machines.)
18:11:00  I'd rather write Brainfuck than LC, CL, or TMs. I think that it's because Brainfuck offers a little more potential for disciplined composition of subprograms.
18:11:45  I guess writing LC or CL isn't too bad given a macro system. And Cammy is basically unbearable without macros, even if I think of a hive as more of an IDE than a ball of macros.
18:11:54  int-e: techno stockholm syndrome......... nice lol
18:13:07  korvo: Oh but LC is actually nice in that it enables abstraction (in the form of higher order functions).
18:13:47  The only way I can write CL code is by starting with LC code and then doing abstraction elimination.
18:14:23  I can write CL directly but I'd prefer a Cammy-like categorical basis instead. Less C, more B.
18:14:56  LC would be nice if it were typed. I can write STLC all day. I hate Elm and OCaml but I can use them.
18:15:14  korvo: it's worth noting that tromp's BLC source language actually has `let` syntactic sugar. Oh and support for simple recursion so you don't have to write your own fixed point combinator every time.
18:16:07  So pure LC really isn't *that* nice for humans... having bindings (with name and definition in one place) is a huge help.
18:16:26  lol
18:16:28  it is for me
18:17:09  int-e: Yeah, I suppose that you're right. Apples-to-apples, I don't want to write TMs with anything less than (Not-Quite-)Laconic. Ditto with Wang tilings or Post correspondence blocks.
18:17:55  wWwwW: Have you found Boehm-Berarducci encoding yet? (Did I actually spell their names right this time?)
18:18:03  wahts dat
18:18:26  also i hate non LC lambdas. they are stupid in my opiion
18:18:28  You know Church encoding for natural numbers? That can be generalized to any algebraic data type.
18:18:28  [[Where is my esolang?]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145102&oldid=145101 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+96) Categories
18:18:42  korvo: i had that idea for ages
18:19:33  wWwwW: what do you mean, Lagrange multipliers work great.
18:19:41  ...
18:19:42  ...
18:19:49  LAMBDA CALCULUS!!!!!
18:19:50  lol
18:20:06  you talked about non-LC lambdas
18:20:07  idek what that is
18:20:10  [[The nutjob from wellington]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145103&oldid=145066 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+111) Categories
18:20:19  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrange_multiplier -- usually called lambda.
18:20:26  wWwwW: Lambda-abstraction is the same everywhere; any language which calls something else "lambda" can be comfortably named and shamed.
18:20:51  [[The nutjob from wellington]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145104&oldid=145103 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-1) Fix category
18:20:51  int-e that means using lambdas in non lambda calculus just feel out of place for the rest of the lang. unless its haskell ofc
18:21:05  There's also that weird thing that AWS calls "lambda".
18:21:30  wWwwW: And ultimately it's a Greek letter and that language would be much poorer without it.
18:22:20  true lol
18:23:16  wWwwW: It's not historically accurate, but think of LC as a calculus with *only* lambda-abstractions. At the time, a calculus always had applications and variables, so LC has three forms: application, variable lookup, and lambda-abstraction.
18:24:34  Anyway, what languages were you thinking of? Languages like Python, Java, or C++ really do have lambda-abstraction, although it fits within their object models.
18:25:29  Oh yeah this was the last time of me constructing Minksy machines "manually" (it really bootstraps higher-level abstractions like loops immediately to minimize the number of operations that have to be specified manually): https://devel.isa-afp.org/browser_info/current/AFP/Minsky_Machines/Minsky.html
18:26:24  korvo: Python especially(cuz firts of all ugly, second of all looks weird, and third of all messy ahhh) but bacially everywhere. idk
18:26:26  ...I found a typo
18:27:29  ...this is why I should never look at things I did years ago.
18:27:29  wWwwW: So, three complaints about syntax? Don't get me wrong, readability matters and Python is sensitive to that critique, but I don't think that that's a good basis for a complaint.
18:27:56  its not a complaiint its more of a personal disliking
18:28:30  Partially because Python's `lambda` still does what it's supposed to do, and partially because a readability-first approach eventually degrades into useless goo. My preferred example is Quorum, a lackluster middling language useful only as an example of what not to do.
18:28:47  lol
18:29:04  wWwwW: I think you've overlooked what lambda-abstraction *is*. A lambda is a *hole* in an expression where another expression can go, and when we apply a lambda, we *fill* that hole.
18:30:18  `x(y)(z)`...
18:30:18  `x y z`...
18:30:19  `f(x y) f(z)` how i wish it was
18:30:22  f(x? No such file or directory
18:30:22  x(y)(z)`...? No such file or directory
18:30:22  x? No such file or directory
18:30:32  lol
18:33:55  or `f(x) f(y) f(z)` for that matter
18:38:02  what about you korvo? how would you like x applied to y applied to z in lambda style to llok like?
18:38:14  [[6]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145105&oldid=145086 * Ractangle * (+0) /* Online interpreters */
18:43:36  [[The nutjob from wellington]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145106&oldid=145104 * Yayimhere * (+11) /* semantics and syntax */
18:45:53  [[The nutjob from wellington]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145107&oldid=145106 * Yayimhere * (+62) /* semantics and syntax */
18:46:07  [[The nutjob from wellington]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145108&oldid=145107 * Yayimhere * (+4) /* infinite loop */
18:47:43  shoould we have a infinte loop list?
18:47:50  maybe ill make one
18:50:46  Eh I'm still happy with the economy of that Minsky machine formalization. (It establishes that all recursively enumerable sets can be recognized by Minsky machines. It's just the Minsky machine part, the definition of recursively enumerable = computably enumerable sets is elsewhere.)
18:51:35  ?
18:52:00  (that's enough of me admiring my past self)
18:54:23  wahtwahtwahtwaht
18:54:26  im very confused
18:54:30  eh wutever
18:56:10  wWwwW: I literally don't care what it looks like. I care about how easy it is to machine-parse and how easy it is to enter on a keyboard.
18:56:40  But I am *tired* of caring about S-expressions vs JSON vs YAML vs etc.
18:58:16  lol
18:58:27  (looks can come to typing)
18:58:32  "what lambda-abstraction is" -- LC and CL both formalize substitution. CL is arguably simpler (it's a first-order term rewriting system), but also more awkward to use.
19:04:54  I sometimes wish Bob Harper's ABTs were more popular. An abstract binding tree (ABT) is an abstract syntax tree (AST) with generic lambda-abstraction. ABTs are ASTs with (typed) holes.
19:05:56  wWwwW: FWIW I'm a former professional pianist and my fingers are physically tired. I use an ergonomic keyboard, I stretch constantly, and I want languages that are shorter so that I don't have to type as much.
19:06:50  Cammy's canonical form is S-expressions because (pr t not) is shorter and easier than ["pr", "t", "not"]. Otherwise I'd use JSON, and a predecessor of Cammy was implemented in jq.
19:07:02  esolangs: What is the jq language?
19:08:59  ok
19:09:37  b_jonas: this is starting to intimidate me: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/Mintech.png (Mindustry)
19:09:42  (here you talk about pianist as a job right? i find a pianist anybody who can play stuff and make good stuff on piano personally)
19:11:49  wWwwW: Yes, I was paid money to play jazz piano in restaurants and clubs. It's not lucrative.
19:12:28  korvo: [500 Internal Server Error] generating response: context deadline exceeded [#6267f9299c89c]
19:12:50  esolangs: err what?
19:13:06  oh.
19:13:27 * korvo outprompts the bot
19:13:39  int-e: "err what?" is a common phrase used in programming to indicate an error or unexpected behavior. It's a way to ask "What's wrong?" or "What went wrong?" when encountering an error message or unexpected output. It's a casual way to express confusion and seek clarification about the error.
19:13:58  hahahaha
19:15:07  is this real?
19:15:10  esolangs: What's an example of hard-to-parse JSON?
19:15:17  if not we need to make it
19:15:43  korvo: idk. i dont actually look much into JSON. for all i know its just a bunch of dictionaries
19:15:47  korvo: There's no single "hard-to-parse JSON" example, as it depends on the specific criteria for "hard". However, here's a common issue: **Nested objects with deeply nested arrays:** ```json { "nested_object": { "inner_array": [ { "nested_object": { "inner_array": [ "item" ] } }, "item" ] } } ``` This structure can be difficult to parse due to the depth...
19:15:47  of nesting.
19:16:13  fuck how did i misread esolangs as wWwwW????
19:16:33  > fix show
19:16:35   "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\...
19:17:13  ...
19:17:14  ...
19:17:15  ...
19:17:16  ...
19:17:20  WAHTTF
19:17:24  err what
19:17:33  > fix error
19:17:34   "*Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Ex...
19:17:44 * int-e shrugs
19:17:45  esolangs: how did you come up with "err what"
19:17:51  wWwwW: one "..." is more than enough
19:17:57  sure is
19:18:00  wWwwW: I asked
19:18:05  Ooh, to the tune of "Sound of Silence". ♪ It's not hard to parse JSON ♩ but here's a hint to help along ♪ when nesting objects very deep ♩ the stack pointer you should always keep ♩
19:18:26  lol
19:18:39  i just made a fricking train noise with my mouth
19:18:42  nice:]
19:18:44  ♪ for the nesting! can overflow your stack ♪ with a lack ♩ of allocated space, due to the depth … of nesting ♩
19:19:20  wWwwW: The prompt doesn't provide information about how "err what" came about. It's likely a humorous or nonsensical phrase, perhaps referencing the absurdity of esoteric programming languages and their often cryptic error messages.
19:19:20  korvo: I honestly think that there is no hard to parse JSON value. The trouble is mostly character encodings.
19:19:54  hey korvo as a pianist whats the most annoying thing you have to do?
19:20:04  int-e: I was hoping that the response would trip up at least one component somewhere along the line. But yeah, I've parsed JSON like four or five times, and it's not hard given a parser library.
19:20:08  And why is \u limited to 4 hex digits. :P
19:20:27  wWwwW: Hip-hop on a piano or harpsichord.
19:20:37  [[TxeT]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145109&oldid=144976 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+1) /* Python */
19:20:38  And a recursive descent parser will also do just fine.
19:21:18  [[TxeT]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145110&oldid=145109 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+31) /* Examples */
19:21:20  What else is weird... JavaScript has NaN but JSON doesn't.
19:21:35  And it's annoying that you have to encode 64 bit integers as strings.
19:21:43  korvo: personally as a /producer/(take that lightly i make music on the internet for no reason for no money and its prop terrible) i say breakcore beats. but umm i can see why
19:22:39  But those are shortcomings of the format and its origin rather than difficulties with parsing.
19:23:22  wWwwW: Gigging musicians have to be able to improvise when people ask. I can fake most styles, but hip-hop's a common request that I can't really work with. Sometimes I wish I were a drummer.
19:24:23   -- argh, specify a maximum width *please*
19:24:31  (from https://www.json.org/json-en.html )
19:25:08  korvo: trust me. you wont want to be a drummer. as my dad says(as a drummer), "if i started with drums i wouldve never played the piano". e explained its cuz its hard mto do both
19:25:10  idk lol
19:25:17  (100% is particularly obnoxious because scaling doesn't work. Gotta make the viewport thinner instead.)
19:25:27  int-e: It might reassure you that Data-E, the subset of E which eventually became JSON, *did* distinguish between `double` and `int` types with syntax. They were mixed to appeal to EMCAScript-first folks.
19:26:33  wWwwW: I can play most percussion instruments just fine. A professional drummer is much better at it than me, that's all. I did something called "drumline" that's fairly popular for folks your age in the USA.
19:26:57  drumline?
19:27:02  Your dad might know what I mean when I say "I used to play quints, which are like quads with a gonk in the middle."
19:27:02  wahts that
19:27:23  also note im not amarican
19:27:28  *ame
19:27:35  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenor_drum#Multi_tenor_drums_(United_States_and_Latin_America)
19:28:25  also do you know what a tonewheel organ is? sounds rlly cool
19:28:41  the only ooold instrument i know that shounds cool
19:28:50  *sounds
19:28:51  I've not seen one in person, but I've heard of them.
19:29:28  its like house + air + organ basically
19:29:29  lol
19:29:51  back in like idk i think the 00's(?) they used thi as a base in house music
19:29:53  *bass
19:29:59  I specialize in electric pianos, including the Hammond sound, which is modeled after tonewheels. I also play the Rhodes sound.
19:31:27  nice
19:36:06  [[User talk:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145111&oldid=144768 * Ractangle * (+218) /* What the hell is HQ9t? */ new section
19:36:13  [[User talk:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145112&oldid=145111 * Ractangle * (+161) /* What the hell is HQ9t? */
19:37:02  [[User talk:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145113&oldid=145112 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+425) /* What the hell is HQ9t? */
19:37:12  [[User talk:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145114&oldid=145113 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+4) /* What the hell is HQ9t? */
19:37:19  [[User talk:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145115&oldid=145114 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+2) /* What the hell is HQ9t? */
19:37:26  [[User talk:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145116&oldid=145115 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+0) /* What the hell is HQ9t? */
19:38:33  [[User talk:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145117&oldid=145116 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+84) /* What the hell is HQ9t? */
19:38:47  [[User talk:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145118&oldid=145117 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-29) /* What the hell is HQ9t? */
19:39:47  Ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuu-
19:39:53  😉
19:42:03  lol
19:42:39  > length "Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff"
19:42:41   67
19:42:53  nice
19:43:04  [[User talk:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145119&oldid=145118 * Ractangle * (+188) /* What the hell is HQ9t? */
19:43:19  [[User talk:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145120&oldid=145119 * Ractangle * (+20) /* What the hell is HQ9t? */
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19:53:40  whats the craziest esolang?
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19:57:04  [[256]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145121&oldid=144588 * Ractangle * (+13) /* 256.js */
20:00:33  [[User:B jonas]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145122&oldid=144516 * B jonas * (+12) /* Games that the esolangs community plays */
20:00:58  [[User:B jonas]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145123&oldid=145122 * B jonas * (+34) /* Games that the esolangs community plays */
20:01:12  [[User:B jonas]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145124&oldid=145123 * B jonas * (+0) /* Games that the esolangs community plays */
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20:11:35  int-e: for Mindustry, I'm still using the savefile that I started with Mindustry v6, so it has a lot of existing sectors that I visited before upgrading to v7 and so keep the old map. I'm scared of starting over without all the fancy tools and my existing setups.
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20:38:44  [[The nutjob from wellington]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145125&oldid=145108 * Yayimhere * (+1) /* semantics and syntax */
20:38:58  [[The nutjob from wellington]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145126&oldid=145125 * Yayimhere * (+0) /* infinite loop */
20:39:33  [[The nutjob from wellington]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145127&oldid=145126 * Yayimhere * (+30) /* semantics and syntax */
20:40:52  [[The nutjob from wellington]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145128&oldid=145127 * Yayimhere * (+41) /* infinite loop */
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21:35:45  About JSON, I think it has some problems and the ones you mentioned are some of them. I think its use of Unicode is also a problem, and that it doesn't store binary data directly, doesn't have optional trailing commas, comments, etc. But there are other possibilities, e.g. a subset of PostScript, or a binary format.
21:38:39   Hmm, what's the better possessive? Rice' or Rice's? the "prescriptive grammar" rule is to use ' only on words that a) end with an "s" sound and b) are plural; "Rice" ends with the correct sound but isn't plural, so it's "Rice's"
21:39:18  this does lead to weird-sounding possessives sometimes on singular words that happen to end in an s, such as "grass's" (as opposed to "grasses'")
21:43:50   And why is \u limited to 4 hex digits. :P ← some languages use \x with 2 digits, \u with 4, \U with 8; others use a delimiter, along the lines of \u{12345}, then they can use the same prefix for hex character literals of any length
21:44:23  (I had been making my own text-based format which can be converted to DER. However, ASN.1 doesn't have a key/vlue list type, but I made up ASN.1X which adds a few types including a key/value list type, so ASN.1X has all of the types necessary for JSON.)
21:44:50  About those, in some programming languages/formats, \x means one byte and \u means a Unicode character so the meaning is not always the same anyways.
21:46:47  (My own format allows \x in most string types; Unicode strings can also have \u with four hex digits, and \U with any number of hex digits followed by a semicolon, e.g. UTF8:(\U12345;) for a UTF-8 string with the single character U+12345.)
21:47:55  Also, JavaScript does have a integer type now, although it did not have a integer type at the time that JSON was invented.
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22:12:08  [[User talk:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145129&oldid=145120 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+243) /* What the hell is HQ9t? */
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23:21:06  b_jonas: Yeah it's a slow game if you capture each base and then try to maximize resource gain from that base and learn how all the new tech fits together.
23:42:37  ais523: Haskell allows any length without the {}. You can use the zero-length \& to terminate the escape sequence if it's ambiguous.
23:47:37  Yes, although I think it might be better to not have ambiguous escape sequences like that

2024-11-10:

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01:04:05  I think that another important consideration about S-expressions vs JSON vs YAML vs etc is that different formats are good for different purposes, I think. The same is true of character sets and character encodings, and of programming languages.
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01:25:03  > "ä1"
01:25:05   "\228\&1"
01:37:51  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * MyTriumph *  New user account
01:38:57  [[Infinite noise machine]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145130 * RainbowDash * (+2521) Created page with "Infinite noise machine is an model of computation made by [[User:RainbowDash]]. That, given enough time it will create every logic gate, it does this by using infinite noise based on a starting seed. * Machine takes N bits as a seed * Set the number o
01:41:03  [[Infinite noise machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145131&oldid=145130 * RainbowDash * (+52) 
01:42:11  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145132&oldid=144980 * MyTriumph * (+284) MyTriumph apply for editing
01:42:44  [[Infinite noise machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145133&oldid=145131 * RainbowDash * (+61) 
01:42:57  [[Infinite noise machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145134&oldid=145133 * RainbowDash * (+4) 
01:44:54  [[Brainfuck implementations]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145135&oldid=141633 * MyTriumph * (+1) Updated a dead link for BrainFuck Developer
02:06:29  [[BubbleLang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145136&oldid=142272 * PrySigneToFry * (+75) 
02:13:36  [[Infinite noise machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145137&oldid=145134 * RainbowDash * (-95) optimize, ill optimize machine b later
02:17:55  [[EmojiLang (Mihai Popa)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145138&oldid=129901 * PrySigneToFry * (+130) 
02:38:24  [['Python' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145139&oldid=144865 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+2) /* truth-machine */
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03:08:01  [[+++]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145140&oldid=144848 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+31) /* Programs */
03:08:16  [[+++]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145141&oldid=145140 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+12) /* Numerical Cat */
03:09:16  [[+++]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145142&oldid=145141 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+34) /* Programs */
03:25:34  [[Infinite noise machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145143&oldid=145137 * RainbowDash * (-6) 
03:26:27  [[Infinite noise machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145144&oldid=145143 * RainbowDash * (-31) 
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04:57:57  Some of the custom Magic: the Gathering cards that I had made up are inspired by some stuff in Pokemon (the cards do not mention Pokemon)
04:58:54  [[The nutjob from wellington]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145145&oldid=145128 * Gggfr * (+50) /* semantics and syntax */
06:49:37  [[User:Tommyaweosme]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145146&oldid=143525 * PrySigneToFry * (+25) 
06:53:32  [[User talk:Tommyaweosme]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145147&oldid=145081 * Gggfr * (+96) /* Editing talkpage comments */
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09:00:10  [['Python' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145148&oldid=145139 * Ractangle * (-26) golfed it a bit
09:00:34  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Buckets *  New user account
09:01:01  [['Python' is not recognized]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145149&oldid=145071 * Ractangle * (+21) /* Syntax */
09:01:10  [['Python' is not recognized]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145150&oldid=145149 * Ractangle * (+0) /* Syntax */
09:01:30  [['Python' is not recognized]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145151&oldid=145150 * Ractangle * (+16) /* Syntax */
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09:52:40  [[*&&^]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145152&oldid=139538 * Ractangle * (+347) /* See also */
09:53:55  [[Interpret Esolangs Online]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145153&oldid=143830 * Ractangle * (+26) /* External Resources */
09:58:10  [[IEO-fork]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145154 * Ractangle * (+308) Created page with "'''IEO-fork''' is a fork of [[User:None1]]'s project, [[Interpret Esolangs Online]] created by [[User:Ractangle]].   This was originaly a [https://github.com/none-None1/Interpret-Esolangs-Online/pull/2 pull reques] to add [[6]] to [[Interpret Esolangs Online|IEO]] ==A
09:58:29  [[IEO-fork]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145155&oldid=145154 * Ractangle * (+41) 
10:00:18  [[6]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145156&oldid=145105 * Ractangle * (-29) /* Online interpreters */
10:01:41  [[IEO-fork]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145157&oldid=145155 * Ractangle * (+38) /* Added languages */
10:03:04  [[IEO-fork]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145158&oldid=145157 * Ractangle * (+80) 
10:03:45  [[User talk:Ractangle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145159&oldid=145047 * Ractangle * (+58) /* IEO-fork section */ new section
10:04:54  [[IEO-fork]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145160&oldid=145158 * Ractangle * (+105) /* Can help? */
10:10:31  [[IEO-fork]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145161&oldid=145160 * Ractangle * (+43) /* See also */
10:11:24  [[User talk:Ractangle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145162&oldid=145159 * Ractangle * (+4) /* IEO-fork section */
10:13:01  [[User talk:ZCX islptng]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145163&oldid=145075 * Ractangle * (+1) /* Grade */
10:14:40  [[Lol waht i cant edit talk pages]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145164&oldid=144025 * Ractangle * (+2) /* Added commands by PSTF */
10:16:58  [[Lol waht i cant edit talk pages]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145165&oldid=145164 * Ractangle * (+7) /* Do nothing */
10:17:13  [[Lol waht i cant edit talk pages]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145166&oldid=145165 * Ractangle * (+5) /* Hello, world! */
10:24:39  [[6]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145167&oldid=145156 * Ractangle * (-17) /* Categories */
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10:36:42  [[Assemble]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145168&oldid=144292 * PrySigneToFry * (+16) Fixed
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11:17:26  [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * Ractangle *  uploaded "[[File:IEO-fork home.png]]"
11:18:19  [[IEO-fork]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145170&oldid=145161 * Ractangle * (+55) 
11:18:26  [[IEO-fork]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145171&oldid=145170 * Ractangle * (+0) 
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11:50:09  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Kloodi *  New user account
11:51:03  [[IEO-fork]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145172&oldid=145171 * Ractangle * (+5) /* Added languages */
11:55:06  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145173&oldid=145132 * Kloodi * (+260) My introduction
11:56:15  [[User:Kloodi]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145174 * Kloodi * (+15) Created page with "Hi, I'm Kloodi."
11:57:29  [[IEO-fork]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145175&oldid=145172 * Ractangle * (+1) 
12:01:05  web.sync: points -0.95, score 19.22, rank 24/47
12:01:23  ooh, new BF Joust program
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13:22:10  [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145176 * Kloodi * (+2250) 
13:24:27  [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145177&oldid=145176 * Kloodi * (+116) Loop summary fixed, Added truth to values
13:26:20  [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145178&oldid=145089 * Kloodi * (+11) 
13:38:43  [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145179&oldid=145177 * Kloodi * (+19) 
13:39:42  [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145180&oldid=145179 * Kloodi * (+4) 
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13:57:52  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145181&oldid=145180 * Kloodi * (+0) New interpreter link
14:03:23  [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145182&oldid=145181 * Kloodi * (+141) /* Emojis */
14:03:40  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145183&oldid=145182 * Kloodi * (+0) /* Interpreter */
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14:21:20  [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145184&oldid=145178 * Ractangle * (+0)  is not the first symbol in the unicode
14:22:58  [[IEO-fork]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145185&oldid=145175 * Ractangle * (+67) /* Can help? */
14:23:09  [[Talk:IEO-fork]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145186 * Ractangle * (+0) Created blank page
14:28:03  [[Restricted batch]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145187&oldid=115808 * Ractangle * (+19) 
14:36:14  [[Special:Log/move]] move  * Ractangle *  moved [["python"]] to [[Blocked]]
14:36:14  [[Special:Log/move]] move  * Ractangle *  moved [[Talk:"python"]] to [[Talk:Blocked]]
14:39:02  [[Blocked]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145192&oldid=145188 * Ractangle * (-262) 
14:39:14  [[Blocked]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145193&oldid=145192 * Ractangle * (-5) 
14:55:20  [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * Ractangle *  uploaded "[[File:S and e.png]]"
14:58:25  [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite  * Ractangle *  uploaded a new version of "[[File:S and e.png]]"
15:00:06  [[Blocked]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145196&oldid=145193 * Ractangle * (+172) 
15:00:39  [[Blocked]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145197&oldid=145196 * Ractangle * (+5) 
15:00:52  [[Blocked]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145198&oldid=145197 * Ractangle * (+0) /* Syntax */
15:01:06  [[Blocked]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145199&oldid=145198 * Ractangle * (-7) /* Syntax */
15:02:25  [[Blocked]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145200&oldid=145199 * Ractangle * (-4) /* Syntax */
15:03:49  [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145201&oldid=144942 * Ractangle * (-1) /* Stuff to continue */
15:18:59  [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145202&oldid=145183 * Kloodi * (-1) /* Emojis */
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16:27:10  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145203&oldid=145202 * Kloodi * (-173) 
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16:56:29  [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145204&oldid=145203 * Kloodi * (+0) /* Interpreter */
16:57:08  [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145205&oldid=145184 * Kloodi * (+11) 
16:57:54  [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145206&oldid=145205 * Kloodi * (-11) /* Non-alphabetic */
17:02:02  [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145207&oldid=145206 * Kloodi * (+0) 
17:04:58  [[User:Kloodi]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145208&oldid=145174 * Kloodi * (+195) 
17:09:14  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * I like malbolge more than Python! *  New user account
17:11:56  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * BN^2 *  New user account
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17:41:46  [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145209&oldid=145207 * Ractangle * (+0) I just said that "" is not the first symbol in unicode. I even checked it
17:43:02  [[User talk:Kloodi]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145210 * Ractangle * (+191) Created page with "alright then  %[[User:Kloodi]]~~~"
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18:17:14  [[IEO-fork]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145211&oldid=145185 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+30) Category
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18:46:29  [[Interpret Esolangs Online]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145212&oldid=145153 * Ractangle * (-87) replit.exe stopped responding
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20:00:33  [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145213&oldid=145204 * Kloodi * (-8) 
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21:23:55  [[Infinite noise machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145214&oldid=145144 * RainbowDash * (+1104) Explain it better, and broaden the topic
21:26:09  [[Infinite noise machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145215&oldid=145214 * RainbowDash * (-2) 
21:28:51  [[Infinite noise machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145216&oldid=145215 * RainbowDash * (+144) 
21:33:13  [[Infinite noise machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145217&oldid=145216 * RainbowDash * (+104) 
21:33:49  [[Infinite noise machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145218&oldid=145217 * RainbowDash * (+1) Remove any confusion
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21:57:03  [[Infinite noise machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145219&oldid=145218 * RainbowDash * (+51) 
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22:01:40  [[Infinite noise machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145220&oldid=145219 * RainbowDash * (+142) 
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23:04:22  [[Talk:Colon period period colon]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145221 * 5anz * (+4) Created page with "col."
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23:20:23  [[Talk:^English]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145222 * 5anz * (+785) Created page with "I made a cool program:   Print "Help, I'm stuck in a computer! If you don't believe me, I can print the source code, here:" to the screen, the below it, print the source code, and proceed with "...you may not believe me... *sigh* never mind, goodbye." and shut off the
23:20:52  [[Talk:^English]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145223&oldid=145222 * 5anz * (+15) 
23:54:34  [[Infinite noise machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145224&oldid=145220 * RainbowDash * (+3) 
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2024-11-11:

00:29:30  [[User:ZCX islptng]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145225&oldid=144992 * ZCX islptng * (+513) 
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02:47:41  [[Infinite noise machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145226&oldid=145224 * RainbowDash * (+56) Optimze code
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02:53:47  [[Infinite noise machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145227&oldid=145226 * RainbowDash * (+32) /* Machine B JS */
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04:08:59  [[PopFuck/Rickroll]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145228 * MihaiEso * (+20878) Created page with "This is just [[Never Gonna Give You Up]] in [[PopFuck]], generated using [https://websim.ai/p/_dixok92bdzm1ksr_23r/4 the PopFuck generator] using maximum optimization.  
 000000005++>0000000000+>0005++++>00000000000++++>0000000000+>000++>00000000000>00000
04:09:13  [[PopFuck/Rickroll]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145229&oldid=145228 * MihaiEso * (+23) 
04:09:24  [[PopFuck/Rickroll]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145230&oldid=145229 * MihaiEso * (+25) 
04:12:05  [[PopFuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145231 * MihaiEso * (+1064) Created page with "'''PopFuck''' is a esolang made by Mihai Popa. It's a smaller and a "crappier" version of [[Brainfuck]]  == Command Table == {| class="wikitable" |+ Command Table |- ! Command !! Meaning |- | + || Increment one step |- | 5 || Increment five steps |- | 0 || Increment te
04:12:32  [[User:MihaiEso]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145232&oldid=145088 * MihaiEso * (+67) 
04:12:59  [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145233&oldid=145209 * MihaiEso * (+14) /* P */
04:14:28  [[PopFuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145234&oldid=145231 * MihaiEso * (+92) 
04:15:12  [[PopFuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145235&oldid=145234 * MihaiEso * (+271) /* Hello, world! */
04:16:03  [[Windows 1.0/Rickroll]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145236&oldid=128880 * MihaiEso * (-22) 
04:16:57  [[Never Gonna Give You Up]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145237&oldid=139762 * MihaiEso * (+41) 
04:23:40  [[PopFuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145238&oldid=145235 * MihaiEso * (-6) 
04:51:25  [[Not]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145239&oldid=137931 * Gggfr * (+94) /* why tho */
04:57:19  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * LDRK11 *  New user account
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05:07:56  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145240&oldid=145173 * LDRK11 * (+257) /* Introductions */
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09:05:40  [[3 (islptng)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145241 * ZCX islptng * (+702) Created page with "3 is a stack-based esolang that is just 1 with more commands and less constants.  ==Syntax== 
 3 Pushes 3 to stack. = Duplicates top value. o Rotates top 3 values(Take the 3rd to the 1st) # Swaps top 2 value. . Get a character from input. Pushes its ASCII val
09:07:31  [[FilesAndFolders!]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145242 * LDRK11 * (+2741) Create the FilesAndFolders! page
09:09:09  [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145243&oldid=145233 * ZCX islptng * (+106) 
09:11:55  [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145244&oldid=145243 * LDRK11 * (+23) /* F */
09:15:04  [[User:LDRK11]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145245 * LDRK11 * (+100) make my user page
09:17:03  [[3 (islptng)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145246&oldid=145241 * ZCX islptng * (+0) 
09:47:58  [[User talk:ZCX islptng]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145247&oldid=145163 * Ractangle * (+177) /* ! */
09:49:33  [[Not]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145248&oldid=145239 * Ractangle * (+28) /* Implementation */
09:49:53  [[Not]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145249&oldid=145248 * Ractangle * (-3) /* Implementation */
09:50:33  [[Not]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145250&oldid=145249 * Ractangle * (+3) /* Implementation */
10:01:21  [[3 (islptng)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145251&oldid=145246 * ZCX islptng * (+906) 
10:03:52  [[User talk:Ractangle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145252&oldid=145162 * ZCX islptng * (+424) /* chinese */ new section
10:14:22  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries *  New user account
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10:18:25  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145253&oldid=145240 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+386) 
10:20:25  [[User talk:H. H. P. M. P. Cole]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145254 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+219) Created page with "Hello. It seems that you reported many of my posts. ~~~~"
10:21:12  [[User:ZCX islptng]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145255&oldid=145225 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (-32) Reverted vandalism
10:24:05 -!- tromp has joined.
10:26:14  [[User talk:ZCX islptng/Sandbox]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145256 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+451) Created page with "I'm sorry. Your talk page is in a mess. Unfortunately, I got hacked on LifeWiki. I asked ColorfulGalaxy if he could use his LifeWiki account. Unsurprisingly, he replied that he couldn't. I have to stay here for a month. You c
10:26:35  [[User talk:Ractangle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145257&oldid=145252 * Ractangle * (-424) Wrong place
10:26:48  [[User talk:Ractangle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145258&oldid=145257 * Ractangle * (+424) /*  */
10:27:26  [[User talk:Ractangle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145259&oldid=145258 * Ractangle * (+191) /* chinese */
10:29:31  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145260 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+113) Created page with "[[/One per generation|OCA One per generation project]]  [[/Rules|Rule tables]]  [http://lazyslug.com/ LifeViewer]"
10:47:19  [[DeadIFsh]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145261&oldid=102888 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+388) Introduced an examples section which initially intrines a countdown program and two unsigned byte range printers.
10:48:29  [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145262&oldid=145201 * Ractangle * (+190) /* An actual APL-like language */
10:49:07  [[User talk:Ractangle/Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145263&oldid=144053 * Ractangle * (+32) /* Rating and people */ new section
10:49:19  [[User talk:Ractangle/Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145264&oldid=145263 * Ractangle * (-7) /* Rating and people */
10:59:13  [[DeadIFsh]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145265&oldid=145261 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+168) Added a hyperlink to my tentative implementation of the DeadIFsh programming language on GitHub.
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11:34:40  [[User:ZCX islptng/Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145266&oldid=144130 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+66) 
11:44:23  [[Blocked]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145267&oldid=145200 * Ractangle * (-170) Redirected page to [[Https://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Ractangle/Sandbox#Rating and people]]
11:44:47  [[Blocked]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145268&oldid=145267 * Ractangle * (-26) Changed redirect target from [[Https://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Ractangle/Sandbox#Rating and people]] to [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox#Rating and people]]
11:44:59  [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145269&oldid=145262 * Ractangle * (-13) /* Stuff to continue */
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12:02:09  [[Game of Life]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145270&oldid=143134 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+25) It's surprising.
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12:13:49  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/Rules]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145271 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+3669) Hybrid Region
12:14:52  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/Rules]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145272&oldid=145271 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (-103) 
12:16:58  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145273&oldid=145260 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+42) 
12:18:00  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/Rules]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145274&oldid=145272 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+35) LifeViewer
12:21:11  [[User:ZCX islptng/Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145275&oldid=145266 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+35) LifeViewer
12:31:09  [[GlyphCode]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145276&oldid=143842 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+24) 
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12:57:35  how can smth be on my watchlist when i havent been on the page?
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13:31:08  [[User talk:ZCX islptng]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145277&oldid=145247 * PrySigneToFry * (+78) 
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13:51:06  Hi
13:51:22  hello!
14:24:28  [[Template:Game of Life/EmbedViewer]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145278 * ZCX islptng * (+1579) Created page with "{{#switch: {{{position|right}}} | right = 
{{LV:Viewer|{{{rle|{{RLE:{{{pname}}}}}}}} {{L
14:25:51  [[Template:Game of Life/EmbedViewer/Doc]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145279 * ZCX islptng * (+2859) Created page with "{{EmbedViewer |pname        = richsp16 |viewerconfig = #C [[ AUTOSTART GPS 4 THUMBSIZE 2 ]] |caption      = [[Rich's p16]] }} The {{tl|EmbedViewer}} template can be used to embed a floating [[LifeViewer]] applet in an article, using an 
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16:55:46  [[User:RainbowDash]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145280&oldid=142579 * RainbowDash * (+1700) 
17:03:03  [[Infinite noise machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145281&oldid=145227 * RainbowDash * (-1) an>a
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18:54:19  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Nimrag *  New user account
19:02:11  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145282&oldid=145253 * Nimrag * (+299) /* Introductions */
19:05:59  b_jonas: Did you know that bridges weave/stack in Mindustry? https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/Mindbridge.png (all belts are moving at full speed)
19:07:00  int-e: yes. 
19:07:40  int-e: you can also have multiple bridges going to the same destination
19:08:45  that... makes sense too
19:10:36  [['Python' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145283&oldid=145148 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+16) /* quine */
19:11:04  Heh the game also suffers from the problem that some items are lost when saving/restoring. But that's probably not ever going to be relevant.
19:13:50  [['Python' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145284&oldid=145283 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-9) /* narcissist */
19:14:21  int-e: Mindustry has rather special handling where it only simulates the one foreground sector in detail, background sectors are following entirely different rules. sometimes you can abuse this, and you have to at least be aware of it because it can be both bad and good for you.
19:14:37  it's not like shapez or Factorio that simulates everything all the time
19:15:28  Yeah I gathered that. It uses the item/min production stat to accumulate wealth. I don't know whether/how it deals with enemies.
19:16:03  [[EmiT]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145285 * Nimrag * (+1599) created emiT page
19:16:29  it's mostly good enough
19:16:55  the one annoying bit is that the mining bots prioritize lead instead of balancing copper and lead when the hub is full.
19:16:59  hub = core
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19:18:30  [[Unique]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145286&oldid=143223 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+27) /* Commands */
19:18:30  so on one base I end up with 2k lead/s and 0 copper/s if I launch to another base, despite both resources being half depleted :P
19:18:54  [[Unique]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145287&oldid=145286 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-27) 
19:18:56  it's not really a problem
19:19:58  [[Unique]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145288&oldid=145287 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+118) /* Order of execution */
19:21:14  int-e: you may consider it a SPOILER, but there's a partial description at https://mindustry-unofficial.fandom.com/wiki/Unattended_Sector_Defense . 
19:22:42  yeah I'm not reading that just yet, but thanks for the link :)
19:23:45  int-e: this comes up mostly at the hard polar sectors, where there are multiple enemy bases neighboring each other that there's a real risk that you lose a sector while you're attacking another one. There's one case when this is mandatory for any%: you have to be able to hold both Desolate Rift and Impact 0087 at the same time to enter Nuclear production complex, so one of them has to survive in the 
19:23:51  background for at least a few minutes. It's not hard if you know what you have to do, but what helps and doesn't help can be surprising.
19:26:08  I'm still on medium enemy activity sectors
19:26:20  threat level is what the game calls it
19:26:53  it's really not easy to build under time pressure
19:27:04  also the reason why it's worth to know this is that hard enemy base sectors are usually easier to capture the first time, when you're destroying the enemy base, than after you cleared it then Crux recaptures it from a nearby enemy base and to recapture the sector you now have to play it in survival mode. 
19:27:22  and incorporate unit control into that, that's my next hurdle
19:27:36  this will probably first happen to you or has already happened to you for Fungal pass
19:28:18  I see that and haven't captured it yet.
19:28:43  That's basically where I am in the game.
19:31:19  right, after capturing that is where the game introduces to the mechanic that a cleared background sector occasionally gets attacks if there's an uncleared enemy base nearby
19:31:41  you can meet that earlier depending on what sectors you capture, it's just where you usually meet it
19:32:43  it's the first time I saw a neighboring sector
19:32:47  so that makes sense
19:36:56  [[Overload]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145289&oldid=143888 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-55) /* Instructions */
19:37:14  yes, most other neighboring enemy bases are either far, or behind hard sectors, or are locked named sectors and so don't cause vulnerability
19:37:15  [[Overload]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145290&oldid=145289 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+47) /* Instructions */
19:45:41  have you got finger confused between simulation games yet? admittedly Shapez.io to Mindustry is not too bad, between Mindustry and Factorio is much more confusing, and so is between OpenTTD and anything else
19:46:32  I right-click too much
19:46:47  trying to scroll, deleting stuff instead
19:47:31  or confusing command mode and normal mode
19:47:47  but that's within the same game so not really what you're asking
19:49:24  ok
19:50:17  I probably tried x and b from Shapez but they don't do anything desastrous in Mindustry
19:53:19  [[Overload]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145291&oldid=145290 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+104) /* Programs */
19:57:13  I had a few slip-ups in shapez when I tried to scroll with rmb and deleted a whole path of something important, even when I played only shapez for a while before it
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19:59:17  I have been bitten by that too. Especially because I enabled deleting buildings while keeping the current active building.
20:00:02  TBH shapez is such a clinical game, it should have basic undo functionality :P
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20:19:18  [[User talk:ZCX islptng]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145292&oldid=145277 * Ractangle * (+2) /* ! */
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20:50:55  "clinical game … undo" => ok, now I'm imagining Trauma Center "oops, killed the patient, undo"
21:03:20  [[PyChr]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145293&oldid=144673 * ShirAko * (+10) Fixed link
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21:13:08  wb ais523 
21:13:10  Good Night *
21:18:59  [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145294&oldid=145244 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+0) 
21:20:28  [[Not]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145295&oldid=145250 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-2) Categories
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21:54:37  [[StupidStackLanguage]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145296&oldid=141427 * Ractangle * (-4) /* Hello World */
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23:22:12  [[JSFuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145297&oldid=144674 * None1 * (+1) /* Shorten your JSFuck code */
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23:53:49  [[Template:Game of Life/EmbedViewer/Doc]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145298&oldid=145279 * ZCX islptng * (-2859) Blanked the page
23:54:30  [[Template:Game of Life/EmbedViewer]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145299&oldid=145278 * ZCX islptng * (-1579) Blanked the page
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2024-11-12:

00:04:26 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine).
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00:08:13  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/One per generation]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145300 * ZCX islptng * (+12951) Created page with "The discussion thread of the project: [https://conwaylife.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6746|here]  
 #C b3s23 - b37c8s238 1cpg x = 306, y = 55, rule = B37c8/S238 90bo$90b3o144bo$82bo10bo143b3o$82b3o3b3o2bo2b2o5
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00:42:55  [[3 (islptng)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145301&oldid=145251 * ZCX islptng * (+862) 
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01:45:23  stupid question. there are given N rewards, n kings where n <= N, and for each king, an ordered list of at least one reward (a reward can appear on multiple king's list). when the hero visits a king, the king gives him the first reward from the king's own list that the hero hasn't received yet. the hero visits the kings in some order, each king only once. determine if there's a possible order where a 
01:45:29  king can't give a reward. is it possible to determine this in time polynomial in N? it's possible in nondeterministic polynomial time in N, or exponential time in N.
01:46:20  I think your definition of "stupid question" is quite different from the usual one :-D
01:49:28  it's stupid question because I hadn't thought about it too hard before asking
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01:50:04  there's probably either an easy polynomial algorithm or an easy reduction from an NP-complete problem
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02:07:34  [[3 (islptng)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145302&oldid=145301 * ZCX islptng * (+34) A more powerful interpreter
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02:32:23  [[3 (islptng)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145303&oldid=145302 * ZCX islptng * (+151) interpreter update
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03:04:42  [[Esolang:Community portal]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145304&oldid=144307 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (-117) Removed link to locked thread) (----
03:07:40  [[Esolang talk:Community portal]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145305&oldid=141711 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+334) Is it possible?) (----
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03:29:58  [[Infinite noise machine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145306&oldid=145281 * RainbowDash * (-1519) /* Example Code */
03:32:13  [[Infinite noise machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145307&oldid=145306 * RainbowDash * (-1) /* Example Machines */
03:33:46  [[Infinite noise machine]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145308&oldid=145307 * RainbowDash * (+51) 
03:41:25  [[TWFUNSETDCMFIU]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145309&oldid=140246 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+8) Wrong term) (----
03:41:27  [[Infinite noise automata]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145310 * RainbowDash * (+2793) Rename infinite noise machine to infinite noise automata
03:42:02  [[Infinite noise automata]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145311&oldid=145310 * RainbowDash * (-2793) Blanked the page
03:42:52  [[Special:Log/move]] move  * RainbowDash *  moved [[Infinite noise machine]] to [[Infinite-noise automata]]: I want to rename it to Infinite noise automata
03:43:55  [[Infinite-noise automata]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145314&oldid=145312 * RainbowDash * (+140) 
03:46:35  [[Infinite-noise automata]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145315&oldid=145314 * RainbowDash * (-10) 
03:49:56  [[Category:No-code esolang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145316&oldid=131177 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+74) 
04:08:29  [[User:RainbowDash]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145317&oldid=145280 * RainbowDash * (-601) 
04:31:29  b_jonas: it's NP-complete. https://mathb.in/80141
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07:54:05  int-e: thank you, I think that works, nice construction
07:56:58  [[Joke language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145318&oldid=144977 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+25) ----) (Fixed user page redirect
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08:59:02  [[SML]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145319&oldid=144959 * Froginstarch * (+30) /* Instructions */
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09:45:07  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * QuantumV *  New user account
09:48:43  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145320&oldid=145282 * QuantumV * (+147) 
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10:56:22  [[Special:Log/move]] move  * Ractangle *  moved [[3]] to [[3 (AndrewBayly)]]
10:57:56  [[SML]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145323&oldid=145319 * Ractangle * (-12) why do you even need a "main" label
11:32:55  Heya
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12:12:58  !zjoust clock >>>+<-<-(>(-)*128<+[<(---+)*-1]-)*8>+[-((-)*256<+[<(---+)*-1]->)*8(-)*-1](+)*21<(-)*33(>)*11([(-)*106[-.][--+[--+]]>]>)*21
12:12:59  iddi01.clock: points 5.93, score 33.55, rank 4/47
12:13:28  Looks like i'm not so terrible at defense programs ;)
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13:55:10  hey ais523 i shared this esolang with you: https://esolangs.org/wiki/Final_Word_Of_The_Day
13:55:10  you asked: "i wonder if you can specify it down to a single specification"
13:55:11  i wanted to rehash this question
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14:14:01  [[BFBASIC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145324&oldid=118462 * None1 * (+13) 404
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16:31:15  anybody?
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16:57:23  [[SML]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145325&oldid=145323 * Corbin * (+59) Not to be confused with Standard ML.
16:58:22  wWwwW: It's not possible to be TC and also only have exactly one quine, I think.
16:58:47  why should that be?
16:58:48  The folklore version of this is easy: without loss of generality, programs in TC languages have access to their own source code.
16:59:09 -!- ais523 has joined.
17:01:05  Similarly, I think that TC languages will always admit non-narcissist self-interpreters. Certainly they'll have non-narcissist interpreters for *other* TC languages, so that self-interpretation isn't a special case.
17:02:02  sad :(
17:03:17  Why? They're just numbers. No amount of emotion can change whether something is provable.
17:03:41  true. but i still find it sad
17:03:43  A better approach would be to assume that I'm bullshitting and wrong, and look for more rigorous reasons to support or dismiss my claims.
17:03:54  true
17:03:57  well ill try
17:03:58  lol
17:06:00  wWwwW: Consider a language where printing is the main effect, and imagine running two programs in that language, one after the other. If the first program prints "A" and the second program prints "B", then they'll together print "AB", right?
17:06:43  not if somehow you restrict it such that no program can be appended to another one and they function
17:06:45  like
17:06:50  But now imagine that we have two programs which are quines, say programs A and B. If we run A and then B, we get "AB". So, this means that your language needs to not have a way to combine A and B to make a new program AB.
17:06:56  all prograns are kinda "closed off" from each other
17:07:14  also
17:07:39  if we say "each quine is one command" then a reduction could happen
17:07:55  (cuz one command plugged into another becomes a third)
17:08:17  Sure. In general, what you're looking for is called a "prefix-free" system: no program is a prefix of another program.
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17:08:48  Where "prefix" means what you think it means: A is a prefix of AB because AB can be broken into two pieces and the first piece is equivalent to A.
17:08:55  so unless FWOTD cant be preefix free then its just that ig
17:09:31   wWwwW: It's not possible to be TC and also only have exactly one quine, I think. ← I think it's possible in uninteresting ways, e.g. if the *only* program that produces output is a quine
17:09:51  or, well, imagine any TC language that can't produce output, the only quine is the null program
17:10:19  ais523: I didn't even think about that. I assumed that we were talking about the ability to print any string whatsoever. Whoops.
17:11:07  true. for all we know it cna have n output(well no cuz narrcicist. unless self interpriting can "produce output". hmmm)
17:11:24  nLab has a hilarious page about that: https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/too+simple+to+be+simple
17:12:17  wWwwW: Wait, does this language actually exist, or is your page asking a question about how to build such a language?
17:12:43  latter
17:12:56  last time I thought about generalised versions of this sort of thing, I wound up getting really stuck on the definition of Turing-completeness – for some of the resulting languages there was clearly a program with the same behaviour as any given program in a TC language, but the compilation process was potentially uncomputable, and I think that's enough to *not* actually be TC (otherwise you compile all halting programs into an empty program and all non-
17:12:58  halting programs into an infinite loop)
17:13:09  korvo: FWOTD is basically a puzzle "design an esolang with this properties", rather than a language
17:13:26  ais523: Sure. I suppose I'm wondering what makes those properties interesting.
17:14:01  it might just be a randomly generated puzzle, with some amount of human insight that aims to make it not trivially easy or trivially impossible
17:14:09  We don't even have a hint about uniqueness or universe. I guess I should assume that languages have symbols, words, grammar, etc.?
17:14:17  don't underestimate the interest that comes from randomly generated puzzles, I have dealt with those a lot in the past
17:14:30  wWwwW: I sent you a private message
17:15:13  Oh, I love jigsaw puzzles! But that doesn't mean that it's easy to learn how to use a jigsaw, and I really don't want wWwwW to think that jigsaw puzzles are jigsaws.
17:16:08  [[SML]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145326&oldid=145325 * Aadenboy * (+30) make external link
17:16:21  [[SML]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145327&oldid=145326 * Aadenboy * (+0) pipe fumble
17:19:08  [[SML]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145328&oldid=145327 * Aadenboy * (+3) also some adjustments
17:20:18  korvo: waht. sorry if im stupid but umm
17:20:23  arent they the same???
17:21:17  [[Memoryleek]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145329 * Aadenboy * (+24) redirect
17:21:27  wWwwW: nowadays "jigsaw" is often used as an abbreviation for "jigsaw puzzle", but there is a type of saw called a "jigsaw" which used to be used to make the puzzels
17:21:40  oh ok
17:22:27  when I search "jigsaw" in Wikipedia, I get a disambiguation page between "Jigsaw puzzle" and "Jigsaw (tool)"
17:22:32  which is what I expected
17:22:40  [[The nutjob from wellington]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145330&oldid=145145 * Yayimhere * (-3042) Blanked the page
17:22:54  makes sense
17:23:29  [[MEMORYLEEK]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145331&oldid=145064 * Aadenboy * (+2) changing the file extension because ''apparently'' there's a language called ML which uses the file extension ML! absolutely ballistic!
17:25:10  [[Special:Log/delete]] delete  * Ais523 *  deleted "[[The nutjob from wellington]]": Author request: blanked by author, recently created and only trivial edits by other users
17:28:30  anyway umm frick
17:31:02  oh no
17:31:13  well
17:31:17  im keeping a list now
17:31:25  * pre-fix free
17:31:59  hmm, I think to make FWOTD work, lots and lots of programs have to be a narcissist due to the difficulty of working out whether a program is a self-interpreter or not
17:32:10  yeas
17:32:30  maybe there is a "standard"/"command" for self interpreting
17:32:44  so it is going to depend somewhat on how you define self-interpreters in the presence of I/O
17:33:20  yes
17:33:23  in arbitrarily languages, a program normally takes some number of inputs (usually 0 or 1) – to write a self-interpreter that handles I/O, it needs one more input, because it needs all the inputs to the program it's interpreting plus the program itself
17:33:25  WHICH is important
17:33:59  this came up in, e.g., Advance The Wheel! where I defined a way for programs to take arbitrarily many inputs, that was important to make the self-interpreter simpler
17:34:25  wow i got somebody interested in ma esolang
17:34:30  this is new
17:35:20  wWwwW: A jigsaw is a very dangerous power tool. They can remove fingers easily. Similarly, I have an ethical duty to discourage folks from creating the next PHP; language authors need to learn security at some point.
17:35:44  so, because self-interpreters have to also be narcissists, it's like they have an extra *output* compared to the program they're interpreting
17:36:08  as such, I think you bypass the narcissist problem entirely by giving every program an additional output, that states whether the source code and input are the same
17:36:28  so it cn be defined as "a program that takes at least two inputs, and returns atleast one"?
17:36:42  (well no but like its a place to start)
17:37:20  when designing esolangs you have a lot of flexibility to define the inputs and outputs
17:38:09  Another option, taking a page from Futamura, is to require two typed inputs: the normal input data, and also a FWOTD program as source code! This requires you to have a FWOTD program which copies input data to output and ignores the input program, so that you can ignore the input program in general.
17:38:39 * ais523 wonders about designing a joke esolang where the inputs are really awkward, e.g. real-life, life-sized statues
17:38:52  wow that sentence confused my brain
17:40:05  Futamura projections seem to confuse everybody. But you don't have to go that deep; just recognize that there's a difference between input data (as like text or whatever) and input programs (as ASTs or other abstract syntax).
17:40:20  k
17:41:41  I think ais523's point about additional outputs could be combined with my point. So each program would get two inputs (some data and a program) and two outputs (the normal output, and also whether the interpreter thinks that the input data matches the input program)
17:46:02  I guess that the narcissism is a property of the interpreter, not the programs? Or it's a property of programs which is verified by the interpreter?
17:46:38  i originally thought former
17:46:40  so
17:46:43  yea
17:49:27  **warning i may leave soon*
17:51:20  No worries. I need to go get breakfast. Take it easy.
17:51:41  (and i cant come back cuz idk stupid rules)
17:53:27  "It's not possible to be TC and also only have exactly one quine" => that's mostly true, but technically only if the TC part can also write output arbitrarily. You could easily define a language that is TC but can only output ascii consonants and the program source code needs vowels, or something like that.
17:54:30  we have talked a lot about this
17:55:00  ok, I'm still reading the backlog
17:55:25  nice lol
17:57:15  i hvae 2 min left guys lol
17:57:29  (ill check logs if you want to talk after i leave
17:59:26  ah right, ais523 already mentioned what I said
18:05:19  [[SML]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145332&oldid=145328 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-1) 
18:08:39  I'm confused, does https://sleef.org/ have release tarballs hidden somewhere, or am I supposed to just checkout a release tag in its git repository?
18:14:02  I know some software libraries these days only provide a git repo, most notably mpir
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18:40:13  "where the inputs are really awkward" => I work in industry where all our inputs come from sensors (such as pressure and temperature meters or switches) of which the hardware is expensive. this is partly because they are brand name stuff where the vendor does not put an "for recrational purposes, no warranties" sticker on them, and partly because some of them have to work in a corrosive or high 
18:40:19  temperature or low temperature or flammable environment, and many of them can't be replaced without stopping production which is expensive. some of this applies not only to the sensors themselves but also the hardware connecting them to the computers, and to the output devices. 
18:44:17  "real-life, life-sized statues" => no statues as such, but this involves ten meter tall tanks that must not leak under a large pressure, also two meter tall tanks that must tolerate high temperature, with an expensive use-once emergency exit that breaks exactly in the right safe way at a specific pressure. 
18:44:51  so I think some of the equipment counts as larger than life-sized
18:49:28  b_jonas: I'd guess you're supposed to grab the sleef code from https://github.com/shibatch/sleef/releases
18:51:31  int-e: indeed, thank you
18:58:57  I once worked for a manufacturing startup and one of my research projects took machined metal parts as inputs. I might summarize that project as: But Is It a Developable Surface?
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19:23:35  [[MEMORYLEEK]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145333&oldid=145331 * Aadenboy * (-26) 
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21:04:29  [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * Aadenboy *  uploaded "[[File:BoxDrawingDemo1.gif]]"
21:06:35  [[User:Aadenboy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145335&oldid=144989 * Aadenboy * (+488) promotion I guess
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22:25:51  How to tell ITU or ISO a proposal of a OID arc, which will not require registration and will have a number of days since some epoch, and a type of identification, the identification by that type, and then any extra parts that you want to assign?
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23:15:40  `unidecode 𒀱
23:15:43  ​[U+12031 CUNEIFORM SIGN AN PLUS NAGA SQUARED]
23:42:45  Night
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2024-11-13:

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01:06:24  `
01:06:25  Stop taking everything literally!
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01:14:48  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Luxedo *  New user account
01:15:47  [[Hanabi]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145336&oldid=136042 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+66) ----
01:20:57  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145337&oldid=145320 * Luxedo * (+221) Hello from Luxedo
01:36:14  [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * Luxedo *  uploaded "[[File:Logo 600.png]]"
01:39:26  [[Special:Log/move]] move  * PkmnQ *  moved [[Final Word Of The Day/PkmnQ]] to [[User:PkmnQ/FWOTD Attempt 1]]
01:39:26  [[Special:Log/move]] move  * PkmnQ *  moved [[Talk:Final Word Of The Day/PkmnQ]] to [[User talk:PkmnQ/FWOTD Attempt 1]]
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02:05:12  [[Nythop]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145343 * Luxedo * (+4641) Add Nythop
02:55:03  [[Nythop]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145344&oldid=145343 * Luxedo * (+12) Change examples level
04:33:27  [[Talk:Nythop]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145345 * None1 * (+272) Question about language name and potential copyright violation
04:33:57  [[Talk:Nythop]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145346&oldid=145345 * None1 * (+235) Sign
04:35:18  [[Talk:Nythop]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145347&oldid=145346 * None1 * (+0) 
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04:55:52  hello
04:56:08  returning from where i left
04:56:22  i will have a list'
04:56:56  of things we "know" about final word of the day
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05:53:57  (I have been told that it is impossible to tell ITU and difficult to tell ISO.)
06:09:39  ?
06:15:38  standards organisations
06:15:57  they are quite bureaucratic and generally don't listen to people who don't pay them large amounts of money
06:24:40  Although I could do some things by myself, I would think that it would be better if I write a document for a proposal and then can be managed by ITU, although probably that is too difficult to actually do it that way
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07:44:35  [[Talk:Nythop]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145348&oldid=145347 * DifferentDance8 * (+226) /* Language Name */
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08:35:42  [[User talk:ZCX islptng]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145349&oldid=145292 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+3735) /* P24 oscillator */ new section
08:39:34  [[User talk:ZCX islptng]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145350&oldid=145349 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+53) 
08:53:36  [[User talk:ZCX islptng]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145351&oldid=145350 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+3885) /* Wire */) (----
08:56:37  [[User talk:ZCX islptng]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145352&oldid=145351 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+229) /* Wire */ Speed) (----
09:08:00  [[Game of Life]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145353&oldid=145270 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+31) ----) (It didn't even have a "CA" tag
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09:17:18  [[Special:Log/move]] move  * Ractangle *  moved [[:   ]] to [[True (Ractangle)]]
09:19:55  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/Rules]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145356&oldid=145274 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+83) 
09:22:13  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/Rules]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145357&oldid=145356 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+7) 
09:22:13  [[Special:Log/move]] move  * Ractangle *  moved [[True (Ractangle)]] to [[true]]
09:24:26  [[F]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145360&oldid=140531 * Ractangle * (-36) 
09:25:38  [[True]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145361&oldid=30803 * Ractangle * (+33) 
09:30:06  [[true]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145362&oldid=145358 * Ractangle * (-510) 
09:32:52  [[true]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145363&oldid=145362 * Ractangle * (+137) 
09:33:52  [[true]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145364&oldid=145363 * Ractangle * (+55) /* Commands */
09:36:39  [[User talk:Ractangle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145365&oldid=145259 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+284) /* I got banned on LifeWiki */ new section
09:37:20  [[User talk:Ractangle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145366&oldid=145365 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (-284) 
09:37:33  [[User talk:PkmnQ]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145367&oldid=141592 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+284) 
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10:35:42  [[true]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145368&oldid=145364 * Ractangle * (+50) /* Commands */
11:20:00  [[5iasm]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145369&oldid=106071 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+977) Supplemented a further example in a repeating cat program.
11:20:38  [[5iasm]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145370&oldid=145369 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+161) Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the 5iasm programming language on GitHub and altered the Unimplemented category tag to Implemented.
11:21:28  [[5iasm]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145371&oldid=145370 * Kaveh Yousefi * (+2) Amended the claim of two special registers' existence to three.
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12:55:11  [[true]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145372&oldid=145368 * Ractangle * (+26) /* Hello, world! */
13:33:30  [[User talk:ZCX islptng]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145373&oldid=145352 * ZCX islptng * (-8195) 
13:35:47  [[User talk:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145374 * ZCX islptng * (+8378) Created page with "talk pagespam
 esolangLifeWiki
 -PSTFNone1  == P24 oscillator == [[User:ColorfulGalaxy]] found a "p24" oscillator in his new rule. 
#BEGIN x = 14, y = 35, rule = HybridRegionB3S23B3S2-i34q 14B$14B$14B$14B$14B$14B$14B$14B$1
13:45:49  [[User talk:ZCX islptng]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145375&oldid=145373 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+345) /* I got hacked and banned */ new section
13:46:32  [[User talk:ZCX islptng]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145376&oldid=145375 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+50) /* I got hacked and banned */
13:49:26  [[User talk:ZCX islptng]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145377&oldid=145376 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+40) /* I got hacked and banned */
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13:57:10  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Kisp *  New user account
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14:10:35  [[P]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145378 * Yayimhere * (+1192) Created page with "'''P''' or '''PLOOPY''' is an esolang created by [[User:Yayimhere]] based on a joke on Failboats streams == semantics and syntax == === syntax === the "fonts" are defined as:  [what A will be replaced[space]with what b will be replaced with[space]ect.] (where [space]<
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14:27:07  i made this lol. i just wanted some quick feedback: https://esolangs.org/wiki/P%F0%9D%90%8B%F0%9D%95%86%F0%9D%95%BA%F0%9D%91%B7%D3%8B
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14:41:42  [[( )]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145379&oldid=134720 * Yayimhere * (-305) /* computational class */ it was wrong
14:42:43  [[true]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145380&oldid=145372 * Ractangle * (+48) /* Commands */
15:00:13  [[Slink]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145381&oldid=144981 * 3cxpy * (+37) /* Operations */
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16:20:01  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Qwertz *  New user account
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16:31:56  hello?
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16:51:26  [[The Sophomores From Tbilsi]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145382 * Yayimhere * (+3022) Created page with "'''The Sophomores From Tbilsi''' is an [[esolang]] created by [[User:yayimhere]] to do two things: * complete the trilogy of the _ from _. * look like [[The Genius from Kiev]] and have triggers like [[The Amnesiac From Minsk]] but be different in ev
16:53:02  eh wutever anybody wanna chat about FWOTD
17:11:06  oops i have to leave
17:11:08  in 2 min
17:11:28  but umm ais523 and/or korvo are any of you still interested
17:12:36  I'm busy with other things atm
17:12:42  k
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18:34:06  esolangs: What is the purpose of the language DIVSPL?
18:34:25  korvo: DIVSPL is a declarative programming language designed to solve the FizzBuzz problem. It's a one-dimensional language with a static, strong type system. The language aims to make expressing FizzBuzz solutions concise and easy to understand.
18:38:29  esolangs: What is the purpose of the language Malbolge?
18:40:16  korvo: Malbolge's primary purpose is to be intentionally difficult to use, making it a challenging and esoteric programming language. It's designed to be a frustrating and complex language, pushing the boundaries of what's considered "computable" in programming.
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18:40:52  esolangs: What is the purpose of the language BLC?
18:41:53  korvo: BLC (Binary Lambda Calculus) is a self-interpreting programming language that uses binary digits to represent lambda calculus expressions. It's designed to be a simplified and efficient way to express and execute lambda calculus programs. BLC's self-interpreter is a key feature, allowing it to execute programs directly without needing external...
18:41:53  interpreters.
18:42:11  Okay, good so far. Now...
18:42:17  esolangs: What is the purpose of the language Brainfuck?
18:42:33  This one is tough because RAG has too many options to choose from, I think.
18:44:01  korvo: Brainfuck is a minimalist programming language designed to be simple and challenging. It's known for its limited syntax, relying on a single-instruction set to manipulate a memory cell. The goal is to demonstrate the fundamental concepts of programming, emphasizing the importance of logic and problem-solving over complex syntax.
18:45:13  [[true]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145383&oldid=145380 * Ractangle * (+81) /* Examples */
18:46:01  Yep, a complete miss. BF was designed to have a small compiler, and arguably to implement P''.
18:46:10  esolangs: What is the purpose of the language Cammy?
18:46:54  ...Also, "single-instruction set"? Bad grammar aside, that's wrong in either possible sense.
18:50:17  korvo: Cammy is a functional programming language designed for expressing categorical logic. It's based on a static, strong, and implicit type system, making it suitable for representing mathematical structures using categories. Cammy's S-expression syntax and primitive recursive nature allow for concise and expressive code. It's particularly well-suited...
18:50:17  for tasks involving dataflow programming and categorical logic.
18:51:02  [[P]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145384&oldid=107258 * Corbin * (+28) Bluelink Bhm.
18:52:19  So. On one hand, I can't argue against a single word of that. But OTOH we can see that the RAG is not reliable for articles of that length; it's iffy on BLC and whiffs on Brainfuck.
18:53:55  It's funny how the LLMs can show us the existence of blind spots: hey look, the LLM has the same blind spot as us! But it can't explain what's missing.
19:11:11  also BF normally has more than one memory cell
19:11:33  I wonder if it still gets easy ones wrong?
19:11:41  esolangs: why was Advance The Wheel! created?
19:11:50  ais523: Advance The Wheel! (ATH!) was created as a playful, experimental language designed to explore the limits of programming. It's a "toy language" meant to be fun and challenging, pushing the boundaries of what's possible with a simple, yet expressive syntax.
19:12:12  yes, still gets it wrong
19:12:17  esolangs: What is the purpose of the language Advance The Wheel!?
19:13:56  Hard prompts are really sensitive to word choice, so let's see apples-to-apples how bad it is.
19:14:36  esolangs: why was Advance The Wheel! created?
19:14:43  :P
19:15:11  korvo: Advance The Wheel! is a self-interpreter language designed to create a small, efficient, and flexible programming language. It achieves this by using a unique control flow based on a wheel that advances based on program commands. This allows for a compact and metacircular language with potential applications in computational linguistics and the...
19:15:11  creation of new programming languages.
19:15:17  int-e: Advance The Wheel! (ATH!) was created as a playful, experimental language designed to explore the limits of programming. It's a "toy language" meant to be fun and challenging, pushing the boundaries of what's possible with a simple, yet expressive syntax.
19:15:33  u'i Zero temperature.
19:16:49  but yes, it still got it wrong even with korvo's wording (although the second sentence is correct and the first sentence is arguably correct, the third is obviously wrong)
19:16:58  and it missed the actual answer entirely
19:17:51  esolangs: Please write a haiku about Advance The Wheel!?
19:17:57  int-e: A wheel's slow turn spins, Advance The Wheel, a dream's call, Code dances, it leaps.
19:18:27  apparently it can't count
19:18:30  TBH I'm somewhat surprised that I got the exact same answer... I expected some degree of randomness. Maybe that's wrong or maybe there's a cache.
19:18:43  it does look vaguely like a haiku from a distance, but the details are all wrong
19:18:47  this is typical of generative AI
19:23:14  int-e: I think it's configured to have "zero temperature"; there's a randomness slider in [0,1] and at 0 it will always pick the most likely token in a greedy loop.
19:23:40  This reminds me that OpenAI's showcase example of "Chain of Thought" is absolute bullshit. https://openai.com/index/learning-to-reason-with-llms/  ...you get a weird cryptogram. And the very first step is a recipe for decoding, and all the "reasoning" is boring step-by-step application of those rules that came out of nowhere. None of "oh each ciphertext word is 2 times longer than the plain text...
19:23:47  ...word so let's group letters in pairs" that would constitute a guided solution process.
19:27:24  Will it bamboozle people who've never solved a cryptogram? I bet it will. But it does *not* demonstrate reasoning. I also wonder what they've cooked to enable this kind of thing; dealing with sequences of semi-random letters is not exactly an LLM task.
19:31:04  Imagine if the showcase was an instance of Fermi estimation. I'd be far more impressed.
19:36:09  korvo: anyway I guess that means you have to inject your own randomness and rephrasing questions will do that
19:43:50  int-e: Yeah, that's a way of looking at it. The way that I think of it is in terms of conditional probability; after a long run of hard tokens (the prompt), the model's probability distribution is going to stay relatively hard for a while. It'll fuzz out eventually, but only with like a Lyapunov exponent or whatever.
19:48:35  The above stated purpose of the language BLC is mostly wrong
19:49:18  what the heck is a self-interpreting programming language ? 
19:49:20  [[Gravilang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145385 * Bogdan192848 * (+1649) Created page with "=Gravilang= '''Gravilang''' is an programing language so small that it can run on literal balls (i am actually trying to do that btw using Gravitrax), while still being able to to conditions (not necesarelly turing complete because it cannot do nested conditions)
19:49:42  all PL's have self interpreters
19:50:12  BLC is not a way to execute lambda calculus programs either
19:50:57  unless you interpret that as adding basic IO to pure lambda calculus
19:51:15  BLC is a *lifestyle*.
19:51:36  BLC's self-interpreter doesn't let you execute programs without an external interpreter
19:52:50  tromp: to be fair it got all the rest wrong, too
19:53:08  the original purpose was to have a very simple definition of Algorithmic Complexity giving very small constants
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19:54:10  when I tried it on a language designed for one primary purpose, which is stated in the first paragraph of the article, it still failed
19:54:55  It seems like RAG has diminishing or even negative returns on a large database. DIVSPL is the only one to get a good answer.
19:55:05  Er, on a large article, rather.
19:55:28  [[*&&^]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145386&oldid=145152 * Ractangle * (+29) 
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19:57:32  [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145387&oldid=145269 * Ractangle * (-35) /* Stuff to continue */
20:00:52  [[Gravilang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145388&oldid=145385 * Bogdan192848 * (+57) 
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21:26:03  [[true]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145389&oldid=145383 * Ractangle * (+94) /* Commands */
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21:46:28  [[true]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145390&oldid=145389 * Ractangle * (+72) /* Commands */
21:47:28  [[true]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145391&oldid=145390 * Ractangle * (-26) /* Cat program */
22:28:59  [[true]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145392&oldid=145391 * Ractangle * (+36) /* Examples */
22:31:17  [[true]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145393&oldid=145392 * Ractangle * (+111) /* Commands */
22:43:47  [[true]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145394&oldid=145393 * Ractangle * (+36) /* Commands */
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2024-11-14:

00:14:23  [[*&&^]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145395&oldid=145386 * Ractangle * (+402) /* See also */
00:16:10  [[6]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145396&oldid=145167 * Ractangle * (+119) /* Online interpreters */
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00:17:15  [[Infinite-noise automata]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145397&oldid=145315 * RainbowDash * (+0) /* Logic Gate Machine JS */
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00:54:47  [[User talk:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145398&oldid=145374 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+388) 
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01:18:09  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/Rules]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145399&oldid=145357 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+3960) 
02:21:50  [[User:ZCX islptng/Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145400&oldid=145275 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+175) 
02:22:34  [[User:ZCX islptng/Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145401&oldid=145400 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+1569) 
02:40:29  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/Rules]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145402&oldid=145399 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+5922) ----) (New rule
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03:28:11  [[Talk:Addpocalypse]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145403&oldid=128108 * Arctenik * (+1331) /* Turing-complete variation */ new section
03:52:11  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/Rules]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145404&oldid=145402 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+42) 
03:54:13  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/Rules]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145405&oldid=145404 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+23) 
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04:26:12  [[Talk:2001: An Esolang Odyssey]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145406&oldid=105103 * BoundedBeans * (-1224) Fixed broken Visual Basic .NET implementation
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04:26:44  [[Talk:2001: An Esolang Odyssey]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145407&oldid=145406 * BoundedBeans * (-119) Remove now unneeded comment from Visual Basic .NET implementation
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05:57:55  [[User:XKCD Random Number]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145408&oldid=142338 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+66) /* 99 */ new section) (----
06:46:23  [[User talk:ZCX islptng]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145409&oldid=145377 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+220) /* I got hacked and banned */
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08:13:58  [[Interpret Esolangs Online]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145410&oldid=145212 * Ractangle * (+32) /* Introduction */
08:14:38  [[Interpret Esolangs Online]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145411&oldid=145410 * Ractangle * (+27) /* Introduction */
08:15:52  [[IEO-fork]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145412&oldid=145211 * Ractangle * (+8) /* Added languages */
08:17:57  [[IEO-fork]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145413&oldid=145412 * Ractangle * (+73) /* Added languages */
08:21:37  [[IEO-fork]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145414&oldid=145413 * Ractangle * (+72) /* Languages */
08:22:40  [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite  * Ractangle *  uploaded a new version of "[[File:IEO-fork home.png]]"
08:23:07  [[IEO-fork]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145416&oldid=145414 * Ractangle * (+24) 
08:23:35  [[IEO-fork]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145417&oldid=145416 * Ractangle * (+66) /* Languages */
08:48:57  [[Rcpy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145418&oldid=78480 * Froginstarch * (+0) /* Spelling error: witch -> which */
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10:40:21  [[User:Superstitionfreeblog]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145419&oldid=144957 * Superstitionfreeblog * (+206) /* Source Code */
10:44:05  [[User:Superstitionfreeblog]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145420&oldid=145419 * Superstitionfreeblog * (+193) /* Subleq8: My 8 bit subleq interpreter source code */
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11:09:31  [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145421&oldid=143952 * PrySigneToFry * (+959) 
11:12:40  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * IIII *  New user account
11:25:05  [[User:PrySigneToFry/Khont function]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145422 * PrySigneToFry * (+454) Created page with "Khont function is a function shown as below: 
 (x, y) = 2x+y-sin(xy)-tan(xy)+(sec(xy)/(2xy(1+tan(x)))) (x) = (x, 1) 
  == Value table == {| class="wikitable" |+ (x) |- ! x !! (x) |- | 0 || ??????????????????????????? |- | 1 || 0.9
11:26:13  [[User:PrySigneToFry]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145423&oldid=142838 * PrySigneToFry * (+40) 
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11:32:09  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145424&oldid=145337 * IIII * (+202) /* Introductions */
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12:08:27  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Orange7Official *  New user account
12:25:13  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145425&oldid=145424 * Orange7Official * (+244) /* Introductions */
12:25:54  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145426&oldid=145425 * Orange7Official * (+1) /* Introductions */
12:26:11  [[User:Orange7Official]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145427 * Orange7Official * (+243) Created page with " That's Hello in Armenian. I'm Narek Sanasaryan, I'm from Armenia. I have been here a lot without an account. So here I am! ~~~~"
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14:39:55  [[Talk:Nythop]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145428&oldid=145348 * None1 * (+0) Question mark
14:49:01  [[Talk:Nythop]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145429&oldid=145428 * None1 * (+395) 
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14:55:42  hello
15:06:39  [[PLOOPY]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145430 * Yayimhere * (+33) Redirected page to [[P]]
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15:51:07  [[MEMORYLEEK]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145431&oldid=145333 * Aadenboy * (+26) update
15:54:34 -!- ais523 has joined.
16:12:08  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  *  *  New user account
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17:10:10  [[User talk:Orange7Official]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145432 * Ractangle * (+45) Created page with "is that the orange 7 from progressmod 95 wiki"
17:10:24  [[User talk:Orange7Official]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145433&oldid=145432 * Ractangle * (+163) 
17:39:30 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
17:51:10  Good Night!
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18:21:59  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Userwatt *  New user account
18:24:01  `asm nopl (%eax + 0x12345678)
18:24:06  ​/tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: expecting `,' or `)' after base register in `(%eax+0x12345678)' \ /tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: no such instruction: `nopl (%eax+0x12345678)'
18:24:10  `asm nopl (%eax, 0x12345678)
18:24:12  ​/tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: expecting scale factor of 1, 2, 4, or 8: got `0x12345678' \ /tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: no such instruction: `nopl (%eax,0x12345678)'
18:24:18  `asm nopl (%eax,, 0x12345678)
18:24:19  ​/tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: expecting scale factor of 1, 2, 4, or 8: got `' \ /tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: no such instruction: `nopl (%eax,,0x12345678)'
18:24:22  `asm nopl (%eax,1, 0x12345678)
18:24:23  ​/tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: expecting `)' after scale factor in `(%eax,1,0x12345678)' \ /tmp/asm.s: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/asm.s:1: Error: no such instruction: `nopl (%eax,1,0x12345678)'
18:24:35  `asm nopl 0x12345678(%eax)
18:24:36  0:  67 0f 1f 80 78 56 34 12   nopl 0x12345678(%eax)
18:24:39  there we go
18:24:46  `asm nopl 0x12345678(%rax)
18:24:47  0:  0f 1f 80 78 56 34 12   nopl 0x12345678(%rax)
18:24:59  `asm nopq 0x12345678(%rax)
18:25:01  0:  48 0f 1f 80 78 56 34 12   nopq 0x12345678(%rax)
18:28:09  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145434&oldid=145426 * Userwatt * (+113) /* Introductions */
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19:31:33  [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite  * Ractangle *  uploaded a new version of "[[File:S and e.png]]"
19:32:38  [[true]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145436&oldid=145394 * Ractangle * (+78) /* Implementations */
19:34:44  [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite  * Ractangle *  uploaded a new version of "[[File:S and e.png]]"
19:54:47  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145438&oldid=145434 *  * (+167) 
19:55:25  [[User:]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145439 *  * (+55) Created page with "hi  i exist  i'll put my esolangs here when i make them"
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20:16:19  [[Prime notary]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145440 *  * (+1693) Main thingie
20:17:53  [[Prime notary]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145441&oldid=145440 *  * (+5) Fixed user link
20:19:20  [[User:]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145442&oldid=145439 *  * (+54) 
20:19:57  [[Special:Log/move]] move  *  *  moved [[Prime notary]] to [[Prime Notary]]: Misspelled title
20:24:13  [[Prime Notary]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145445&oldid=145443 *  * (+69) 
20:29:50  [[Prime Notary]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145446&oldid=145445 *  * (+19) 
20:31:07  [[Prime Notary]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145447&oldid=145446 *  * (+3) Fixed user link... again...
21:16:08  [[Calc]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145448 * Userwatt * (+1512) Created page with "= About =  '''calc''' is a minimalistic esoteric programming language designed around the concept of calculations. The language consists of mathematical operations and three basic keywords. It is designed to be as simple as possible, with the primary goal of evaluating ca
21:17:01  [[Calc]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145449&oldid=145448 * Userwatt * (+103) /* Example Program */
21:17:19  [[Calc]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145450&oldid=145449 * Userwatt * (+0) /* Example Program */
21:35:31  [[Nythop]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145451&oldid=145344 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+97) Categories
21:36:44  [[P]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145452&oldid=145378 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+131) Stub, categories
21:37:33  [[The Sophomores From Tbilsi]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145453&oldid=145382 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+5) /* infinite loop */ Formatting
21:38:27  [[Gravilang]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145454&oldid=145388 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+98) Formatting, categories
21:40:53  [[Calc]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145455&oldid=145450 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+157) Distinguish confusion, add categories
21:41:42  [[CALC]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145456&oldid=137964 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+31) Distinguish confusion
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22:01:33  [[EmiT]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145457&oldid=145285 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+116) Categories
22:06:25 -!- Everything has joined.
22:08:37  [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145458&oldid=145387 * Ractangle * (-32) /* Stuff to continue */
22:08:51  [[User:Ractangle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145459&oldid=144876 * Ractangle * (+32) /* Esolangs */
22:10:01  [[Pycone]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145460&oldid=144829 * Ractangle * (+1) /* Truth-machine */
22:11:56  [[MarkupL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145461&oldid=144907 * Ractangle * (-189) /* MarkupL add-ons */
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22:16:47  [[Snakel/Errors]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145462&oldid=144425 * Ractangle * (+0) /* Removing an entry that is not on the list */
22:19:34  [[Snakel/Errors]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145463&oldid=145462 * Ractangle * (-29) /* Not adding a type to the variable with the {{cd|user}} command */
22:24:15  [[Snakel]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145464&oldid=144234 * Ractangle * (+1) /* Truth-machine */
22:26:15  [[Snakel]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145465&oldid=145464 * Ractangle * (+36) /* A+B Problem */
22:26:33  [[Snakel]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145466&oldid=145465 * Ractangle * (-7) /* See also */
22:26:56  [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145467&oldid=145458 * Ractangle * (-10) /* Stuff to continue */
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23:36:33  [[JAYSON]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145468 * Userwatt * (+4269) Created page with "= About =  '''JAYSON''' is a JSON-based programming language designed to look and feel like JSON itself. This language interprets JSON objects as programming instructions, enabling code to be written entirely in JSON format. The language interpreter is built in Node.js,
23:37:50  [[JAYSON]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145469&oldid=145468 * Userwatt * (-7) /* Features */
23:41:44  [[Calc]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145470&oldid=145455 * Userwatt * (-87) /* About */
23:47:11  [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (H-M)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145471&oldid=142849 * Userwatt * (+139) Adding JAYSON
23:48:16  [[User:ZCX islptng/TCP1]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145472 * ZCX islptng * (+364) Created page with "This is an esolang with a register.  ==Syntax== please allow this 'not c or python or basic' comment! nvar stands for a number or a variable.  var   var = reg  /var   reg = -reg + var  {var   while var>0 do   }      end 
23:49:15  [[JAYSON]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145473&oldid=145469 * Userwatt * (+71) Categories
23:49:22  [[User:ZCX islptng/TCP1]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145474&oldid=145472 * ZCX islptng * (+65) 

2024-11-15:

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01:59:30  A valid binary object identifier matches /^(([\x81-\xFF][\x80-\xFF]*)?[\x00-\x7F])+$/
02:00:44  is \x80 the string terminator?
02:01:24  No; it does not use a string terminator (it is always used in a context where the length is explicitly specified).
02:03:11  (However, it could be used in a context where \x80 is the string terminator; even though it can occur within the string it can still be detected unambiguously if it is valid.)
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03:29:30  (I don't know of any formats that do it like that though)
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05:03:16  [[The Sophomores From Tbilsi]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145475&oldid=145453 * Yayimhere * (+27) /* infinite loop */
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06:07:39  [[User:Iddi01]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145476&oldid=145000 * Iddi01 * (+1387) Decorate the page, even though future edits would be harder
06:13:07  [[Special:Log/move]] move  * Iddi01 *  moved [[Disord]] to [[Uniode]]: Planning to turn this into a general page for [[unicode]]-related stuff
06:47:38  [[Uniode]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145479&oldid=145477 * Iddi01 * (+815) T h i s. i s. n o w. a. p a g e. f o r. a n y t h i n g. [[unicode]] - r e l a t e d !
06:55:32  [[Unicode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145480&oldid=116665 * Iddi01 * (+64) Link to the new page
07:40:10  [[User talk:Iddi01]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145481 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+302) Created page with "I'm very sorry to tell you that I've been hacked by a deleted user on "Conway Life" forum. The Chinese users didn't recognize me here. ~~~~"
07:52:26  [[User talk:ZCX islptng]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145482&oldid=145409 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+185) /* I got hacked and banned */
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08:03:30  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Yayimhere2(school) *  New user account
08:07:18  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145483&oldid=145438 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+234) /* Introductions */
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08:13:42  [[User talk:]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145484 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+186) Created page with "hey wanna collab on an esolang? yo seem cool. also nice user name lol ~~~~"
08:14:40  [[User:Yayimhere2(school)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145485 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+47) Created page with "yea im just a school alt for [[User:Yayimhere]]"
08:20:43  [[~~]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145486&oldid=140133 * Yayimhere2(school) * (-1) /* tips */
08:27:33  [[JAYSON]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145487&oldid=145473 * Ractangle * (-53) do you even know what 
 is?
08:28:02  [[JAYSON]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145488&oldid=145487 * Ractangle * (-54) /* Example of a Function */
08:28:28  [[JAYSON]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145489&oldid=145488 * Ractangle * (-75) /* Example Program */
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08:30:38  [[User talk:ZCX islptng]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145490&oldid=145482 * Ractangle * (+211) /* I got hacked and banned */
08:31:23  [[Prime Notary]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145491&oldid=145447 * Ractangle * (+1) /* Cat */
08:34:25  [[true]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145492&oldid=145436 * Ractangle * (-10) /* Implementations */
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11:04:49  [[User:XKCD Random Number]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145493&oldid=145408 * PkmnQ * (+154) /* Three Star Programmer */ gotta start somewhere
11:06:43  [[User:IIII]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145494 * IIII * (+128) My introduction
11:07:42  [[TxeT]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145495&oldid=145110 * PrySigneToFry * (+21) 
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12:04:18  [[CJProg]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145496 * PrySigneToFry * (+2924) Created page with "CJProg is an Esolang invented by PSTF and his AI-friend Wenxinyiyan.  == Syntax == === Basic structure === ==== Comment ==== # Use  as Single Comment. # Use [[[[ skrjhxsfksjrgngcyfsgf ]]]] as Multi Comment.  ==== Variable 
12:05:31  [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145497&oldid=145294 * PrySigneToFry * (+13) 
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12:31:24  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/One per generation]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145498&oldid=145300 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+2056) /* To be reposted */ new section) (----
12:34:14  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/One per generation]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145499&oldid=145498 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+3) ----
12:37:17  [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145500&oldid=128445 * IIII * (+104) Added a command
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12:44:22  [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145501&oldid=145497 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+19) This page isn't being updated
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12:54:10  [[User talk:ZCX islptng]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145502&oldid=145490 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+284) 
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14:44:47  [[Brain]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145503 * None1 * (+473) Created page with "{{lowercase}} brain is [[brainfuck]] but commands are swear words in different languages. ==Commands== +:  (Chinese)  -: fuck (English)  ,: pula (Romanian)  .: P3RKELE (Finnish)  >:  (Russian)  <: ficken (German)  [: cht tit (Vietnamese)  ]:  (Japanese)  Commands are separat
14:46:20  hey guys
14:47:07  [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145504&oldid=145501 * None1 * (+15) /* B */
14:48:28  [[User:None1]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145505&oldid=145017 * None1 * (+33) /* My Esolangs */
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15:20:50  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145506&oldid=145500 * Yayimhere * (+22) 
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15:52:29  [[Collab]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145507&oldid=145084 * Qawtykit * (+264) added a command and Turing-completeness proof
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16:33:33  [[Collab]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145508&oldid=145507 * Qawtykit * (+648) add more commands and an example
16:34:26  [[Collab]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145509&oldid=145508 * Qawtykit * (+3) 
16:59:11  [[Divmeq]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145510&oldid=135617 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+24) /* Implementations */
17:00:45  [[EWaduzitdo]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145511&oldid=127585 * JP99 * (+14) 
17:01:05  [[EWaduzitdo]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145512&oldid=145511 * JP99 * (+2) 
17:04:57  [[7 bytes XD]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145513&oldid=143716 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+296) /* ; */
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17:24:19  i have to ask. is the any esolang that depends on the *location* of the program?
17:24:46  like where the memory location of the program itself is how it functions
17:28:43  there are lots of practical languages which *can* depend on that (although they usually don't)
17:28:55  but esolangs normally try to hide that detail so that they can run deterministically
17:29:06  depending on it intentionally hasn't been explored much, I think
17:29:27  bear in mind that operating systems normally load programs at a random address, nowadays, unless you tell them not to
17:34:44  [[User:Ractangle/common.css]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145514&oldid=143350 * Ractangle * (+115) 
17:35:26  [[User:Ractangle/common.css]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145515&oldid=145514 * Ractangle * (+39) 
17:35:45  [[User:Ractangle/common.css]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145516&oldid=145515 * Ractangle * (+1) 
17:36:02  [[User:Ractangle/common.css]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145517&oldid=145516 * Ractangle * (+14) 
17:36:53  [[User:Ractangle/common.css]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145518&oldid=145517 * Ractangle * (+0) 
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17:49:22  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145519&oldid=140547 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+126) /* 0 Interpreter */
17:59:16  [[WUUI]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145520&oldid=95427 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+9) 
17:59:35  [[WUUI]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145521&oldid=145520 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+18) 
18:05:14  [[User:XKCD Random Number]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145522&oldid=145493 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+23) /* EmojiLang */
18:07:10  [[User:XKCD Random Number]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145523&oldid=145522 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+21) /* Trampolines */
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18:09:29  [[7 bytes XD]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145524&oldid=145513 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+27) /* 1+ */
18:09:37  [[7 bytes XD]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145525&oldid=145524 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-1) /* LogicF---! */
18:09:54  [[7 bytes XD]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145526&oldid=145525 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-1) /* LogicF--- */
18:13:13  [[7 bytes XD]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145527&oldid=145526 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+238) /* Examples */
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18:27:07  well i got this idea
18:27:28  where it moves itself around and that changes behavour of the program itself
18:30:48  would that be interesting
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19:00:23  ais523?
19:00:41  (yes this is wWwwW)
19:01:20  it might be interesting but it would depend on the details
19:01:34  yes yes of
19:01:38  *ofc
19:02:06  im thinking of like specific interpreters or smth are mapped to different places
19:02:07  idk
19:03:46  im not sure on the details tbh
19:04:02  currently my biggest choise is: is it self contained?
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19:05:59  i think it would be fun to collab on it
19:20:49  I'm a bit busy at the moment
19:21:04  ye yes
19:21:19  if ye have tome(and want to) tell me plz lol
19:24:40  anywey ive been wanting to turn lalala into a algebreaic system
19:25:33  [[Rooms]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145528&oldid=125860 * BestCoder * (+51) 
19:34:07  [[Count counters]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145529&oldid=124430 * BestCoder * (+331) 
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19:57:15  [[Count counters]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145530&oldid=145529 * BestCoder * (+58) 
19:57:57  how would i do it?
20:00:30  [[Collab]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145531&oldid=145509 * Qawtykit * (-1) 
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20:25:20  [[User:Ractangle/common.css]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145532&oldid=145518 * Ractangle * (-22) 
21:05:47  [[User:Ractangle/common.css]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145533&oldid=145532 * Ractangle * (-48) 
21:07:20  [[User:Ractangle/common.css]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145534&oldid=145533 * Ractangle * (+20) 
21:26:36  [[true]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145535&oldid=145492 * Ractangle * (+4) /* Implementations */
21:27:03  [[User:Ractangle/common.css]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145536&oldid=145534 * Ractangle * (-119) Blanked the page
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21:44:36  [[Count counters]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145537&oldid=145530 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+110) Categories
21:52:34  [[Overload]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145538&oldid=145291 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+17) /* Fixed Repeating Output */
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22:54:41  [[true]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145539&oldid=145535 * Ractangle * (+157) /* Commands */
22:57:40  [[Talk:This esolang is not a push-down automata]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145540 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+374) Created page with "This esolang is not a push-down automata, as a push-down automaton can go into infinite loops and do basic conditionals, while this can't. :-~~~"
23:09:12  [[true]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145541&oldid=145539 * Ractangle * (+47) /* Commands */
23:20:54  [[true]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145542&oldid=145541 * Ractangle * (+30) /* Commands */
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23:21:39  [[true]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145543&oldid=145542 * Ractangle * (+46) /* Commands */
23:24:12  [[F]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145544&oldid=145360 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+35) 
23:24:41  [[B]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145545&oldid=141751 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+10) 
23:29:56  [[Minimized BF]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145546&oldid=133925 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+32) /* Implementations */
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2024-11-16:

00:11:33  [[Talk:Nopfunge]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145547&oldid=137986 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+23) 
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00:44:06  in Magic: the Gathering, TIL that the rules for layering of p/t changing effects got changed so p/t adjustment from counters is no longer in a separate layer. I think they changed it because they wanted to print instants like Unleash Fury that double a creature's power, and wanted to allow it to double the effect of counters.
00:49:22  also TIL that they printed a spider with "treetop" in its name, which seems wrong, "treetop" is supposed to mean elves that can only be blocked by flying creatures
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01:20:08  [[+!]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145548 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+372) Created page with "'''+!''' (pronounced "Plus-bang") is a [[:category:Two-dimensional languages|two-dimensional]] [[esoteric programming language]] by [[User:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]].  == Co
01:24:59  [[+!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145549&oldid=145548 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+326) 
01:32:37  [[+!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145550&oldid=145549 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+789) 
01:32:45  [[+!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145551&oldid=145550 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-1) 
01:38:54  [[Segmentation Fault]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145552&oldid=131176 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+23) /* Interpreter */
01:46:43  [[+!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145553&oldid=145551 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+0) /* Commands */
01:58:37  [[+!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145554&oldid=145553 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+133) /* Input and output */
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01:59:50  [[+!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145555&oldid=145554 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+148) 
02:00:05  [[+!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145556&oldid=145555 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+0) Added categories
02:01:56  [[+!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145557&oldid=145556 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+89) 
02:04:09  [[+!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145558&oldid=145557 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+61) /* Commands */
02:04:51  [[+!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145559&oldid=145558 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+40) 
02:05:03  [[+!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145560&oldid=145559 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+5) 
02:07:20  [[+!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145561&oldid=145560 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+1) /* Commands */
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04:54:29  ok. on the esoalng idea i had. i think i have the data *sections* for it but im not sure its good tho(memory is an infinite array of bytes). but heres the list:
04:55:26  * the program
04:55:27  * the place where the interpreter starts reading
04:55:27  * the place where the interpreter stops reading
04:55:28  * the place the interpreter starts
04:55:28  * and ends
05:25:43  [[Nopstacle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145562&oldid=138802 * Ais523 * (+16) /* See also */ +[[Turn Left]]
05:26:14  [[Turnfunge]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145563&oldid=131172 * Ais523 * (+16) /* See also */ +[[Turn Left]]
05:27:20  ALSO i got an idea on how to make 0L(its very boring i think but like fuck it works). basically all it is you make the boundaries of the program and then the pointer bounces on them. thats it. i might have to add some more stuff before it works but like. lol
05:29:25  how is that TC? you would at least need sloping walls, and I don't think that's enough on its own
05:30:03  yes yes. its just a concept. and yes slopes.
05:30:03  you might potentially be able to end up in the Conedy computational class but that probably isn't TC
05:32:59  i think it'll have a counter assigned to each parralel line(boundary) and if the lower one is boucned it increments and if upper is it decrements.
05:33:01  or smth
05:33:30  and if it hits two lines at the same time
05:33:43  it checks for 0 and boucnes on left or right based on that
05:35:10  that *may* be enough
05:35:11  but idk
05:37:45  oh, I see
05:37:47  or like
05:37:50  I agree that that might be enough
05:38:08  when it does a V it decrements and when a A(upside down v) it increments
05:38:12  smth like that
05:38:54  you could make it symmetrical like this: if you hit a corner on the left or right edge, it bounces depending on whether the top or bottom edge has been hit more often, and vice versa
05:39:23  yes!
05:40:00  ok so every corner and its parralel is a counter and then if its in a corner it hits the left or right edge like that
05:40:34  if you hit the lower parralel its a -1 while the upper is +1
05:40:39  then its basically bf
05:41:11  the biggest problem is like
05:41:18  to make the program intepretable
05:43:23  right, specifying the program is difficult
05:44:06  yea
05:44:11  it would prop be an image
05:44:32  (ascii art isnt powerfull enough i think and is hard to specify)
05:47:46  it would have to be a vector image (e.g. svg)
05:47:56  oh yea
05:47:59  fuck im stupid
05:48:06  raster formats like png don't have enough information to know whether you're hitting exactly on a corner
05:48:08  yea you should do that
05:48:46  should i just make like an article?
05:50:20  you can, although you might want to make sure you understand the details first
05:50:32  e.g. where does the program start executing
05:50:41  yes yes
05:50:52  (it would properally be the middle of the program
05:50:54  or smth
05:51:02  where does the DvD logo start? (lol)
06:02:14  [[User talk:ZCX islptng]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145564&oldid=145502 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+352) /* My life viewer patterns stopped working */ new section
06:55:33  hello?
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07:51:04   /whois wWwwW
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08:25:29  [[User:XKCD Random Number]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145565&oldid=145523 * Ractangle * (+23) /* Trampolines */
08:29:05  [[Special:Log/move]] move  * Ractangle *  moved [[Dead fish +- +.]] to [[Dead fish ]]
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08:34:36  int-e: yayimhere/gggfr/xff
08:42:19  [[User:Ractangle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145568&oldid=145459 * Ractangle * (+10) /* Esolangs */
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09:10:25  wWwwW: The space was unintentional. (It never is in my case, I know how to avoid it in irssi.)
09:10:45  ???
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09:31:03  waht
09:59:09  [[User:XKCD Random Number]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145569&oldid=145565 * PrySigneToFry * (+91) 
09:59:21  [[CJProg]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145570&oldid=145496 * MihaiEso * (+17) /* Categories */
10:22:04  [[User:XKCD Random Number]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145571&oldid=145569 * MihaiEso * (+38) /* Poetic */
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10:49:44  [[Calc]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145572&oldid=145470 * Userwatt * (+12) adding 
 to the example program
11:06:57  [[3 (AndrewBayly)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145573&oldid=145321 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+155) ----) (Notability
11:08:06  [[4]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145574&oldid=108036 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+100) ----
11:16:53  Hi
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12:40:26  [[Free Esolang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145576&oldid=142550 * ZachChecksOutEsolangs * (+233) 
12:42:30  [[Free Esolang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145577&oldid=145576 * ZachChecksOutEsolangs * (-94) 
13:21:34  [[BFP]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145578 * Orange7Official * (+1578) Created page with "BFP (short for Brainfuck Pro) is a variant and enhacment of [[Brainfuck]], a famous [[esoteric programming language]] by [[Urban Mller]]. == Commands == Here are the commands: * '''>E''' ''Moves the cell cursor to the right.'' * '''W<''' ''Moves the cell cursor to t
13:23:44  [[User talk:Ractangle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145579&oldid=145366 * Orange7Official * (+228) /* YOU KNEW I WAS THE ORANGE 7 FROM THE PROGRESSMOD95 WIKI???!?!?!?!?!?  */ new section
13:24:00  [[User talk:Ractangle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145580&oldid=145579 * Orange7Official * (+228) /* YOU KNEW I WAS THE ORANGE 7 FROM THE PROGRESSMOD95 WIKI???!?!?!?!?!?  */ new section
13:24:07  [[User talk:Ractangle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145581&oldid=145580 * Orange7Official * (-228) /* YOU KNEW I WAS THE ORANGE 7 FROM THE PROGRESSMOD95 WIKI???!?!?!?!?!?  */
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13:49:18  [[User talk:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145582&oldid=145398 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+386) /* BokaBB fuse */ new section
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14:06:43  [[PyFuck (shirAko)]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145583&oldid=144718 * ShirAko * (+0) corected small mistake
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14:25:24  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/Rules]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145584&oldid=145405 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+3777) 
14:36:54  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/Rules]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145585&oldid=145584 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+154) ----
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14:46:38  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/Rules]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145586&oldid=145585 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+87) 
14:49:41  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/Rules]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145587&oldid=145586 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+85) ----) (Converter
14:51:17  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/Rules]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145588&oldid=145587 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+5) 
14:57:28  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/Rules]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145589&oldid=145588 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+92) ----) (Clean reflector found
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15:06:42  [[User talk:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145590&oldid=145582 * ZCX islptng * (+117) /* this is not a bug */ new section
15:14:25  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/Rules]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145591&oldid=145589 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+100) ----) (7 cells
15:16:03  [[User talk:ZCX islptng]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145592&oldid=145564 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+292) 
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15:19:39  [[User talk:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145594&oldid=145590 * ZCX islptng * (+70) 
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15:41:37  [[User talk:ZCX islptng]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145596&oldid=145595 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+72) /* My life viewer patterns stopped working */
15:43:21  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/Rules]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145597&oldid=145591 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+94) 
15:48:31  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/Rules]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145598&oldid=145597 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+90) ----) (Duplicator
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16:38:49  [[User talk:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145602&oldid=145594 * Ractangle * (+207) 
16:42:57  [[2 Bits, 1 Byte]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145603&oldid=140311 * Ractangle * (+24) /* Operations */
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16:44:17  [[User:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145604&oldid=144629 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+29) 
16:45:09  [[User:Ractangle]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145605&oldid=145568 * Ractangle * (+3) /* Esolangs */
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17:13:54  [[Esolang:Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145606&oldid=144642 * A casual user * (+37) 
18:16:08  [[+!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145607&oldid=145599 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+50) Categories
18:20:00  [[BFP]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145608&oldid=145578 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+182) Formatting, categories
18:24:20  [[Pair]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145609&oldid=93138 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+67) Category
18:30:22  [[;]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145610&oldid=143487 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-14) /* Python */
18:36:28  [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145611&oldid=145467 * Ractangle * (-13) /* Stuff to continue */
18:36:53  [[Special:Log/move]] move  * Ractangle *  moved [[JS-CODE]] to [[2.210*]]
18:38:17  [[2.210*]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145614&oldid=145612 * Ractangle * (-439) 
18:39:18  [[2.210*]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145615&oldid=145614 * Ractangle * (+0) 
19:16:09  [[+!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145616&oldid=145607 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+378) 
19:16:36  [[+!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145617&oldid=145616 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+64) 
19:17:03  [[+!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145618&oldid=145617 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-9) 
19:17:54  [[+!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145619&oldid=145618 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-1) 
19:20:53  [[+!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145620&oldid=145619 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+28) /* The ! command */
19:21:35  [[+!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145621&oldid=145620 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-34) 
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19:58:15  [[+!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145622&oldid=145621 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-49) 
20:03:54  [[FGCITYTNMANCE]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145623 * Ractangle * (+128) Created page with "'''FGCITYTNMANCE''' (or '''For Gods Chirst I Tell You To Not Make A No Code Esolang''') is an esolang made by [[User:Ractangle]]"
20:05:57  [[FGCITYTNMANCE]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145624&oldid=145623 * Ractangle * (+39) 
20:06:27  [[FGCITYTNMANCE]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145625&oldid=145624 * Ractangle * (+42) 
20:07:34  [[FGCITYTNMANCE]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145626&oldid=145625 * Ractangle * (+30) /* Syntax */
20:07:44  [[Talk:My-new-esolang.txt]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145627&oldid=140046 * Bogdan192848 * (+47) 
20:08:26  [[User talk:Ais523]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145628&oldid=144450 * Ractangle * (+2) /* delete account */
20:10:47  [[User:Yayimhere]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145629&oldid=144399 * Ractangle * (+0) /* esolangs */
20:11:17  [[User:Yayimhere]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145630&oldid=145629 * Ractangle * (-11) /* esolangs */
20:14:15  [[Empty Program]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145631&oldid=143629 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+0) main function in C must be 'int'
20:25:25 -!- Everything has joined.
20:27:24  [[Talk:Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145632&oldid=142947 * Bogdan192848 * (+408) 
20:32:38  [[1 bytes :3]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145633&oldid=144800 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+68) 
20:32:51  [[1 bytes :3]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145634&oldid=145633 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-4) /* XKCD Random Number */
20:33:17  [[1 bytes :3]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145635&oldid=145634 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-9) /* Hello world! */
20:33:34  [[1 bytes :3]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145636&oldid=145635 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+1) /* Hello world! */
20:33:49  [[1 bytes :3]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145637&oldid=145636 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+21) /* Hello, World! */
20:34:10 -!- Sgeo has joined.
20:34:29  [[Inputfish]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145638&oldid=116901 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+50) /* External resources */
20:34:51  [[How to learn this language]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145639&oldid=144276 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+31) /* Interpreter */
20:54:15  [[A Triple Sharp]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145640&oldid=129097 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+4) 
20:54:42  [[C]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145641&oldid=135645 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+21) 
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21:10:17  [[Talk:Brainfuck]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145642&oldid=145632 * Ractangle * (+236) /* Might Bf will destroy other programing languages? */
21:11:40  [[+!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145643&oldid=145622 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+83) /* Input and output */
22:01:09  [[Filename "xxx" doesn't seem to be a valid filename. Please check if the filename your trying to execute is written correctly]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145644&oldid=144332 * Ractangle * (+5) /* Syntax */
22:02:29  [[Filename "xxx" doesn't seem to be a valid filename. Please check if the filename your trying to execute is written correctly]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145645&oldid=145644 * Ractangle * (+163) /* See also */
22:13:30  [[IEO]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145646 * Ractangle * (+39) Redirected page to [[Interpret Esolangs Online]]
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2024-11-17:

00:17:51 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
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00:39:32  [[User talk:ZCX islptng]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145647&oldid=145596 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+278) 
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01:33:40  I don't know of any rule in Magic: the Gathering that says "treetop" is supposed to mean elves can only be blocked by flying creatures.
01:39:36  now I am wondering what proportion of spiders have reach
01:42:10  A search on Scryfall suggests 80 out of 88, but I don't know if there are any reasons why this query is not perfect
01:48:36  I'm checking them manually – one of them doesn't have reach naturally but can give itself reach
01:48:59  and at least two of them have effects that can remove an attacking flying creature, in ways other than reach
01:49:17  most but not all the spiders that don't stop fliers at all are Universes Beyond cards
01:51:04  oh, and one of them creates tokens with reach, but doesn't have reach itself
02:06:17  and then there's Hidden Spider which isn't a spider but becomes a spider with reach
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02:52:19  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/Rules]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145648&oldid=145598 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+1389) /* Board games */ new section) (----
02:58:22  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/Rules]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145649&oldid=145648 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (-2) 
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03:14:23  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/Rules]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145650&oldid=145649 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+1097) /* Board games */ Hadron) (----
03:22:21  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/Rules]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145651&oldid=145650 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+171) /* Board games */ Links) (----
03:33:07  [[Esolang:Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145652&oldid=145606 * PrySigneToFry * (-37) 
04:19:05  [[5]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145653&oldid=143383 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+51) 
04:21:47  [[5]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145654&oldid=145653 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-2) /* Categories */
04:29:11  [[User talk:Ais523]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145655&oldid=145628 * Ais523 * (-2) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/145628|145628]] by [[Special:Contributions/Ractangle|Ractangle]] ([[User talk:Ractangle|talk]])  the edit messes up the logical structure of the page, if that conflicts with your signature you should fix you signature
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08:14:55  [[Talk:F]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145656 * Yayimhere * (+141) Created page with "wait are the cells unbounded. if so its TC(i think) ~~~~"
08:29:52  [[OTS]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145657&oldid=138900 * Yayimhere * (-57) /* memory */
09:08:40  [[User talk:Ais523]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145658&oldid=145655 * Ractangle * (+6) /* delete account */  i fixed it
09:12:40  [[User talk:Ais523]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145659&oldid=145658 * Ractangle * (+174) /* Some more questions */
09:14:14  [[User talk:Ais523]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145660&oldid=145659 * Ractangle * (+209) /* are people under 13 alowed here? */ new section
09:28:24  [[Interpret Esolangs Online]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145661&oldid=145411 * Ractangle * (-16) /* Introduction */
09:31:17  [[Special:Log/move]] move  * Ractangle *  moved [[FGCITYTNMANCE]] to [[TIB13BBWSM]]
09:33:31  [[(*U]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145664&oldid=133447 * Yayimhere * (+9985) /* examples */
09:34:14  [[TIB13BBWSM]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145665&oldid=145662 * Ractangle * (-94) 
09:35:19  [[TIB13BBWSM]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145666&oldid=145665 * Ractangle * (+46) 
09:37:01  [[TIB13BBWSM]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145667&oldid=145666 * Ractangle * (+39) /* Syntax */
09:37:20  [[TIB13BBWSM]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145668&oldid=145667 * Ractangle * (+2) /* Syntax */
09:37:36  [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145669&oldid=145611 * Ractangle * (+16) /* Stuff to continue */
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09:38:58  [[TIB13BBWSM]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145670&oldid=145668 * Ractangle * (+51) /* Syntax */
10:01:27  [[(*U]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145671&oldid=145664 * Ractangle * (+260) /* examples */
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10:39:07  [[Talk:&-/]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145672&oldid=141003 * Ractangle * (+193) 
10:43:44  [[&-/]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145673&oldid=141020 * Ractangle * (+268) /* Commands */
11:00:47  [[User talk:Ais523]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145674&oldid=145660 * Ractangle * (-209) /* are people under 13 alowed here? */
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11:15:54  [[&-/]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145675&oldid=145673 * Ractangle * (+180) /* Implementation */
11:16:07  [[&-/]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145676&oldid=145675 * Ractangle * (-2) /* Implementation */
11:17:46  [[(*U]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145677&oldid=145671 * Ractangle * (-260) 
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11:46:19  Hi
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12:06:08  [[User talk:ZCX islptng]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145678&oldid=145647 * Iddi01 * (-2407) Moved the [[CA]]-related stuff here to ColorfulGalaxy's talk page, as you like :
12:06:13  [[User talk:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145679&oldid=145602 * Iddi01 * (+19990) A lot more [[CA]] stuff in here, including those in islptng's talk page, which is moved here
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12:11:27  [[Talk:Black Turing-completeness proof]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145680&oldid=57902 * Yayimhere * (+193) /* "A good GUI interpreter for Black" */
12:12:33  [[ULSAL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145681&oldid=140506 * Yayimhere * (+3) /*  */ rename section to make more sense
12:14:58 -!- FreeFull has joined.
12:18:26  [[Cellular automaton]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145682&oldid=133470 * Iddi01 * (+131) /* See also */
12:21:21  [[User talk:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145683&oldid=145679 * Iddi01 * (+81) /* Some CA stuff */
12:22:56  hello APic
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12:42:37  [[Manuever]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145684 * Orange7Official * (+2132) Created page with "'''Manuever''' is a joking esoteric programming language created by [[User:Orange7Official]]. == Commands == You can use this commands: * '''A''': ''Prints three random alpha release names.'' * '''B''': ''Prints the name of a random animal/bug/reptile/bird star
12:49:52  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * AlmostGalactic *  New user account
12:55:31  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145685&oldid=145483 * AlmostGalactic * (+179) /* Introductions */
12:55:54  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145686&oldid=145685 * AlmostGalactic * (+1) /* Introductions */
13:00:56  [[Categorial]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145687&oldid=126348 * PrySigneToFry * (+60) 
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13:37:42  [[Categorial]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145688&oldid=145687 * Ractangle * (-60) never do that again
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15:36:14  [[+!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145689&oldid=145643 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+37) 
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16:57:14  [[User talk:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145690&oldid=145129 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+9) 
16:57:53  [[Unhappy]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145691&oldid=145010 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+3) 
16:58:14  [[):]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145692&oldid=135924 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+35) 
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17:13:58  why dont we have smth kinda like this?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Counter-Vandalism_Unit/Academy
17:18:18  We aren't that large. English WP needs an education programme because there are so many new users compared to existing users.
17:18:51  kk
17:21:54  hey im not sure myself how to program in this: https://esolangs.org/wiki/%E2%8A%A5
17:21:55  (even tho i made it)
17:21:55  how?
17:23:53  I don't understand how you arrived at that question.
17:24:02  ?
17:24:48  I don't understand. What more could I say?
17:25:22  no like i mean. wutever
17:28:21  I'm not sure what you mean. In American English, I might interpret that (at your age) to be a sign of giving up or walking away from something. But I don't understand what you're giving up on.
17:28:38  this question
17:29:51  Okay. I'm sorry I couldn't be more helpful. I'm mostly just very confused.
17:30:04  its ok
17:30:12  im more disappointed in myself
17:31:28  Well, what were your expectations? Also, why do you have to be disappointed over not meeting expectations?
17:34:18  well that i was able to explain smth without confusing ppl
17:39:30  Oh. Well, that seems like a very high expectation. You don't have to be so rough on yourself.
17:40:02  it is?
17:40:11  Keep in mind that it might be more important to explain how the language works to a *computer*. That will give you an artifact which you can share with people.
17:40:18  yea
17:40:26  the joke came from
17:40:28  once i asked
17:40:41  "couldnt an exiom just be a random string" igot yes
17:40:52  and that esolang was born
17:41:04  but if that is wrong then this is uncomputable
17:41:16  Yeah, explaining without being confusing is something that teachers do. It takes years of training in teaching along with years of training in the subject that they teach.
17:41:29  What do you think an axiom is, though?
17:41:47  a reltion between *thing* in a system
17:42:08  **tthings*
17:42:47  That's the semantic view. There's also the syntactic view: an axiom is a string of symbols.
17:42:53  yes
17:43:01  (thats what this esolang assumes)
17:43:03  [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145693&oldid=143083 * Corbin * (+28) Category.
17:43:34  i think this might be equal to or close to that esolang ais523 made
17:43:43  the one where the program does smth random every time
17:45:01  but i have no proof whatsoever
17:45:03  lol
17:45:20  łöł
17:45:24  :]
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17:54:41  hi again, I figure I should at least idle here :)
17:55:13  ?
17:55:14  what
17:55:19  but umm helllo
17:56:03  `? olsner
17:56:07  olsner seems to exist at least. He builds all his esolangs in diesel engines. His poetry's alphanumeric.
17:56:29  `? wWwwW
17:56:31  wWwwW? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
17:56:39  used to also say my desk points zimbabwards, which it still does
17:56:44  i will truly never understand you hackeso
17:57:35  lol
17:59:50  [[g]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145694 * Yayimhere * (+986) Created page with "'''g''' is an esolang based on how the creators keyboard works and yes ofc the creator is [[User:Yayimhere]] == semantics == so there is a base string(top line of program) and then theres rules. basically you have a single char and a number. on prime cycles this rule will be
18:00:05  esolang: what is Éšœłãñg
18:00:11  gawd dammit
18:00:12  lol
18:04:08  [[,(*+)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145695&oldid=139574 * Yayimhere * (+135) 
18:04:23  mmm yes underload `([...])a(!^)*`
18:04:33  very useless code
18:04:39  [[,(*+)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145696&oldid=145695 * Yayimhere * (+1) /* Underload */
18:07:09  [[,(*+)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145697&oldid=145696 * Yayimhere * (+116) /* Underload */
18:11:24  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145698&oldid=145693 * Yayimhere * (-28) /* examples */
18:15:04  olsner: does that mean you're facing zimbabwards when sitting at the desk, or the opposite? I'm not sure which direction a desk is considered to be "pointing"
18:27:30  b_jonas: as in I'm looking towards zimbabwe, I think
18:28:04  if I was driving the desk it would be going in that direction
18:37:38  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145699&oldid=143246 * Ractangle * (+2) 
18:44:04  [[AnnoyingScript]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145700 * AlmostGalactic * (+1423) Created page with "{| class="wikitable" ! Instructions !! Args !! Purpose |- | + || value || Adds a character or string to the top of the stack |- | - || none || Removes the bottom of the stack |- | > || text || Outputs text to the console |- | ~ || none || Returns the botto
18:44:20  [[AnnoyingScript]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145701&oldid=145700 * AlmostGalactic * (-1423) Blanked the page
18:45:46  [[AnnoyingScript]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145702&oldid=145701 * AlmostGalactic * (+1443) 
18:47:25  [[AnnoyingScript]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145703&oldid=145702 * AlmostGalactic * (+110) 
18:47:36  [[AnnoyingScript]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145704&oldid=145703 * AlmostGalactic * (+2) 
18:47:48  [[AnnoyingScript]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145705&oldid=145704 * AlmostGalactic * (-1) 
18:48:25  [[AnnoyingScript]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145706&oldid=145705 * AlmostGalactic * (-1) 
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18:50:52  [[AnnoyingScript]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145707&oldid=145706 * AlmostGalactic * (+126) 
18:52:44  [[AnnoyingScript]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145708&oldid=145707 * AlmostGalactic * (+41) 
18:54:41  [[AnnoyingScript]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145709&oldid=145708 * AlmostGalactic * (+265) 
18:55:19  [[AnnoyingScript]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145710&oldid=145709 * Ractangle * (-14) Examples and programs are the same thing
18:56:07  [[AnnoyingScript]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145711&oldid=145710 * AlmostGalactic * (+65) 
18:58:17  [[AnnoyingScript]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145712&oldid=145711 * AlmostGalactic * (+89) 
19:00:32  in that case my desk is facing Pariswise
19:00:47  no, my desk is *pointing* Pariswise, but facing me in the opposite way
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20:00:33  [[MarkupL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145713&oldid=145461 * Ractangle * (-69) 
20:01:07  [[MarkupL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145714&oldid=145713 * Ractangle * (+58) 
20:11:18  [[Stuley]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145715 * Ractangle * (+307) Created page with "'''Stuley''' is an alternative universe version of the '''CSS''' language made by Alice Luxemborg, made as an add-on for [[MarkupL]]. ==Syntax== I can't really explain it properly so here is an example: {{Snakel|code={{H}}1:{{H}}A[bgcolor: [[MarkupL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145716&oldid=145714 * Ractangle * (+176) /* MarkupL syntax */
21:49:27  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Seifenhalter *  New user account
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22:32:51  [[MarkupL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145717&oldid=145716 * Ractangle * (+95) /* Hello, world */
22:36:57  [[+*-]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145718&oldid=119576 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+21) /* See Also */
22:45:19  [[!lyriclydemoteestablishcommunism!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145719&oldid=144304 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+61) /* "Examples" */
22:45:26  [[!lyriclydemoteestablishcommunism!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145720&oldid=145719 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-2) /* 7 bytes XD interpreter */
22:45:48  [[!lyriclydemoteestablishcommunism!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145721&oldid=145720 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+4) /* 7 bytes XD interpreter */
22:46:02  [[!lyriclydemoteestablishcommunism!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145722&oldid=145721 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-6) /* 7 bytes XD interpreter */
22:46:28  [[!lyriclydemoteestablishcommunism!]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145723&oldid=145722 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-3) /* 7 bytes XD interpreter */
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23:40:46  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Mattmath314 *  New user account
23:42:47  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145724&oldid=145686 * Mattmath314 * (+92) /* Introductions */
23:44:16  [[Length]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145725&oldid=121078 * Mattmath314 * (+2) /* Computational class */
23:53:50  Is Z-machine usable for general computing, or only for text adventure games?
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23:56:02  I'm not sure if it's even usable for text adventures.

2024-11-18:

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00:34:15  [[AnnoyingScript]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145726&oldid=145712 * AlmostGalactic * (+96) 
00:48:13  [[AnnoyingScript]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145727&oldid=145726 * AlmostGalactic * (+95) /* Instructions */
00:51:58  [[AnnoyingScript]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145728&oldid=145727 * AlmostGalactic * (+176) 
01:02:09  Sgeo: It looks like there's a generic enough 16 bit computer in there.  https://zspec.jaredreisinger.com/14-opcode-table
01:08:23  (As documentation goes this feels very sparse. You'd probably have to dig through an interpreter like frotz if you want to figure out the actual semantics. There's mention of dynamic memory and user stacks in V6 but no details where I looked.)
01:09:17  (So I have no clue how much memory you get to play around with.)
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01:55:32  [[User talk:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145729&oldid=145683 * ZCX islptng * (+364) 
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03:50:17  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Rombito *  New user account
05:09:36  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145730&oldid=145724 * Rombito * (+120) 
05:09:41  [[Pararedox]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145731 * Rombito * (+1820) Made pararedox
05:10:29  [[Pararedox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145732&oldid=145731 * Rombito * (+18) 
05:11:32  [[Pararedox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145733&oldid=145732 * Rombito * (+3) 
06:12:30  [[Trainhooking]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145734&oldid=138636 * Gggfr * (+12) /* TC proof */
06:26:41  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/One per generation]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145735&oldid=145499 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+255) /* To be reposted */ 12  10) (----
06:29:16  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/One per generation]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145736&oldid=145735 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (-49) 
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06:37:16  I tried to write a better documentation about Z-machine, but it is incomplete.
06:43:17  Only the memory below PURBOT is writable, although the first 64K is readable. Above the first 64K can only be packed text and program instructions; other data must be stored below 64K.
06:47:20  You can read this text in the program by the use of DIROUT 3 though, so it can be used for purposes other than just being displayed
06:53:09  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/One per generation]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145737&oldid=145736 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+215) 
07:05:05  [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145738&oldid=145669 * Ractangle * (+12) /* Stuff to continue */
07:05:29  [[User:Ractangle/Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145739&oldid=145738 * Ractangle * (-1) /* Stuff to continue */
07:09:07  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/One per generation]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145740&oldid=145737 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+245) 
07:09:17  [[MarkupL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145741&oldid=145717 * Ractangle * (+0) /* Cat program */
07:09:50  [[MarkupL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145742&oldid=145741 * Ractangle * (-12) Whoos
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08:14:44  [[Snakel]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145743&oldid=145466 * Ractangle * (+81) /* Syntax */
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11:09:19  [[User talk:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145744&oldid=145729 * Iddi01 * (+497) /* Some CA stuff */
11:22:28  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Win7HE *  New user account
11:28:52  [[Commercial]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145745&oldid=127666 * ZachChecksOutEsolangs * (+90) 
11:40:20  [[A+B Problem]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145746&oldid=144011 * Iddi01 * (+1607) /* Implementations */ Just realized that the +-only calculators in [[Execode]] and [[Exechars]] are actually this
11:42:42  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145747&oldid=145730 * Win7HE * (+69) deadshark
11:44:07  [[User:Win7HE]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145748 * Win7HE * (+67) example
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12:40:18  [[Deadshark]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145749 * Win7HE * (+1404) my deadfish variant
12:41:06  [[Deadshark]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145750&oldid=145749 * Win7HE * (+1) hm
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12:45:20  [[User:Win7HE]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145751&oldid=145748 * Win7HE * (+13) fun
12:50:07  [[Deadfish]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145752&oldid=144207 * Win7HE * (+47) /* Variants of deadfish */
12:50:25  [[Deadfish]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145753&oldid=145752 * Win7HE * (-1) /* Variants of deadfish */
12:50:52  [[Deadfish]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145754&oldid=145753 * Win7HE * (+1) /* Variants of deadfish */
12:51:15  [[Deadshark]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145755&oldid=145750 * Ractangle * (-5) /* Commands */
12:51:34  [[Deadshark]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145756&oldid=145755 * Ractangle * (+2) 
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12:54:25  [[Deadshark]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145757&oldid=145756 * Win7HE * (-1) /* Example Program */
12:56:28  [[]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145758&oldid=145698 * Yayimhere * (+55) /* syntax */
12:57:21  [[Deadshark]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145759&oldid=145757 * Win7HE * (+38) /* Commands */
13:01:24  [[Deadshark]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145760&oldid=145759 * Win7HE * (+90) /* External Links */
13:05:01  [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145761&oldid=145504 * Win7HE * (+16) /* D */
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13:07:43  Hi
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14:44:42  [[Nythop]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145762&oldid=145451 * Luxedo * (+0) Fix Nyhtop typos to Nythop
14:46:23  [[Brainfuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145763&oldid=144350 * Iddi01 * (-8) /* Related languages */ I don't know how many potential [[BF joust]] players were lost due to this unacceptable detail (making the less popular more visible)
15:00:03  [[MarkupL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145764&oldid=145742 * Ractangle * (+317) /* Cat program */
15:00:20  [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145765&oldid=145761 * Rombito * (+16) 
15:00:20  [[MarkupL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145766&oldid=145764 * Ractangle * (+17) /* Cat program */
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15:20:19  im bored. if anybody saw my AIS523 discussion about 0L and i need help with some details!
15:22:07  [[Halforth]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145767 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+1847) Created page with "'''Halforth''' - is an esolang based on Forth by [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]] in which every insyruction takes half of a byte (a single hexadecimal digit) ==Description== Language works on a stack as well as a tape to store data, which could contain both negative a
15:22:24  [[User:ChuckEsoteric08]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145768&oldid=144741 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+14) /* 2024 */
15:27:21  [[Halforth]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145769&oldid=145767 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+0) 
15:28:38  [[Halforth]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145770&oldid=145769 * ChuckEsoteric08 * (+4) 
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16:40:19  hello
16:49:52  i need smth to read any interesting but not too long langs to read about?
16:50:20  (and no int-e this is not another chance to say that i need to improove my esolangs im always trying lol)
16:51:09  esolangs: what is Éšœłãñg
16:51:29  PCWWWWW: Éšœłãñg is an esoteric programming language designed around the way a keyboard works. It uses a base string and rules to manipulate characters. The rules are based on cycles (prime or odd) and dictate how characters are replaced. For example, prime cycles replace a character with the base string repeated a certain number of times, while odd...
16:51:29  cycles replace it with the nth diacritic.
16:51:47  YOOO
16:51:58  lol
16:52:11  thats epic
16:52:13  good job
16:52:15  lol
16:53:08  esolang: what changes would need to happen to https://esolangs.org/wiki/OFFICIAL Turing complete
16:53:13  frick
16:53:14  oops
16:53:25  esolangs: what changes would need to happen to https://esolangs.org/wiki/OFFICIAL Turing complete
16:53:42  (esolangs is cool lol)
16:54:03  PCWWWWW: The provided link is a redirect to the Turing-complete page. Therefore, no changes are needed. The page already defines what Turing-completeness is and provides examples of languages that are Turing-complete.
16:54:40  hahahaaaaaaaaa frick thats funny
16:55:37  anyway
16:55:39  lol
17:04:05  [[Fiifinite]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145771 * Xff * (+666) Created page with "'''Fiifinite''' is a [[FSA]] but the only change is a state can split the pointer into to! now this may seem boring but this is equal to creating a copy program making in an infinite state machine. but really its just a infinite pointer finite state machine(IPFSM) == synta
17:04:18  [[Fiifinite]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145772&oldid=145771 * Xff * (+1) /* examples */
17:04:54  [[Fiifinite]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145773&oldid=145772 * Xff * (+111) /* syntax and semantics */
17:05:06  [[Fiifinite]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145774&oldid=145773 * Xff * (+2) /* examples */
17:05:21  very good esolang
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17:06:08  esolangs: is Fiifinite TC?
17:06:22  (yes i do like playing around with esolangs its fun lol)
17:06:37  PCWWWWW: Finite Groups is a functional language that can be used to implement finite state machines. It's not a Turing Machine, but it can be used to simulate the behavior of a Turing Machine. Therefore, Finite Groups is not a Turing Machine.
17:06:46  [[Fiifinite]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145775&oldid=145774 * Xff * (+0) 
17:07:24  mmm yes finite groups whatever the frick that is
17:09:20  anyway
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17:37:52  PCWWWWW: The bot doesn't actually know how to determine whether something is TC. It also doesn't know the abbreviation "TC".
17:38:02  esolangs: Is the Brainfuck programming language Turing-complete?
17:38:45  korvo: No, Brainfuck is not Turing-complete. The article states that Brainfuck is a 1D language, while Turing-complete languages are brainfuck derivatives. This means Brainfuck is a subset of Turing-complete languages, but not a Turing-complete language itself.
17:39:23  PCWWWWW: See, it doesn't know anything and is completely wrong about most facts.
17:39:29  lol nice
17:39:45  what *is* esolangs anyway?
17:39:49  esolangs: Is the Cammy programming language Turing-complete?
17:40:04  it cant be chatgpt
17:40:06  lol
17:40:16  It's an IRC bot. They're endangered now, but they used to be common all throughout this region.
17:40:19  korvo: you dont need to demonstrate
17:40:25  more of this
17:40:40  but what is an IRC bot. a mediocre chatbot???
17:40:49  No, it's not ChatGPT. I gather that it's a local model, possibly a flavor of LLaMA.
17:41:23  i have no idea what that means but i accept it as an answer whatsoever
17:41:36  also can you detect that im tired as frick?just wonderin
17:41:52  All chatbots are mediocre at best. It's something we discovered in the 1960s: if you give somebody a program that *appears* to speak a natural language, then often they'll be fooled into thinking that the program is a person.
17:42:13  Sure, I gather that you're a student, and students are defined by overwork and exhaustion.
17:42:49  no i meant like tired as physically i want to sleep. like yea all the time im exhuasted yes yes
17:43:17  also by that definition family doctors are students even when out of medical school
17:44:05  Doctors do have a "residency" period after they're graduated; they're still students at that point, because they have to learn how a working hospital operates.
17:44:21  yes yes. but after that
17:44:36  korvo: Yes, Cammy is Turing-complete. The article states that Cammy is Turing-complete because it can represent arbitrary functions using its primitive arrows and templates. This makes it capable of simulating any Turing machine.
17:44:38  (i know of residency ive watched some doctor stuff)
17:45:14  And that's two failures for esolangs. It turns out that RAG is not perfect and LLMs cannot reason.
17:45:32  nothing is perfect
17:46:05  other than physics(not the formulas(formulea?) but the actual system itself)
17:46:07  Perfect hashing is perfect. Binary trees on powers of two are perfect.
17:46:23  not that kind of perfect
17:46:38  nothing *real* is perfect(real defined as phtsically buildable)
17:46:51  Even if a RAG pipeline puts all of the correct snippets in front of the LLM, there's no intrinsic reason that an LLM ought to be able to reason about those snippets. LLMs are fundamentally statistical and syntactic.
17:46:53  (and like isnt just math)
17:47:13  still deterministic tho
17:48:13  also just wonderin has anybody thought of this before(i would be very suprised if not): https://esolangs.org/wiki/Fiifinite
17:48:17  Statistical systems are generally non-deterministic. esolangs happens to be configured to be deterministic, but an LLM is most effective when doing non-deterministic searches for good options.
17:49:00  PCWWWWW: Sounds like NFAs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nondeterministic_finite_automaton
17:49:36  (computers cant be non deterministic and i cant remember why. not truly atleast)
17:50:20  korvo: i dont rlly see tha relation unless im looking at the diagram. they are not the same tho. i belive atleast
17:51:50  The physics underneath computers is highly non-deterministic and it takes a lot of effort to create a stable signal when building physical machines. Von Neumann had to prove a "threshold theorem" stating that classical computers were possible to build; his theorem shows that if a machine can amplify its internal signals over some threshold, then it can always distinguish between internal states.
17:51:54  [[Fiifinite]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145776&oldid=145775 * Xff * (+51) /* syntax and semantics */
17:52:05  We needed a similar threshold theorem to prove that quantum computers were possible!
17:52:11  oh
17:52:14  im stupid
17:52:17  lol
17:52:25  but who *programs* that in?
17:52:42  like
17:52:49  yea on the physics level they can be
17:52:56  PCWWWWW: Would you believe that every NFA has an equivalent DFA? The DFA might need many more states to represent the NFA's non-determinism, but it's always possible.
17:53:05  but programming wise no.
17:53:10  korvo: oh yea
17:53:15  like
17:53:17  yea
17:53:26  i dont know why
17:53:33  im to stupid to say that
17:53:36  i just say yea like
17:53:45  Programming-wise, you'd better know about cosmic rays; random bitflips are quite possible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hardening
17:54:35  are they rlly random tho? its just *complicated* right? like you nearly cant see a difference but like still
17:54:40  just some physics
17:54:43  wait no
17:55:02  (why are we remaking a whole god damn vsause video???)
17:55:19  anyway
17:55:24  the reason i find
17:56:08  fiifinite to be different from NSA is that even though like you can think of it as running both possibiltys when actually coputing the program it will always take one of two choices
17:56:19  while here it will always choose both parrelely
17:56:19  Ooh, that's one of my favorite parts of physics! It's a theorem of quantum mechanics that *no*, the world isn't made up of deterministic tiny particles whose inner workings are following mysterious rules; sometimes, particles are forced to make choices.
17:56:36  lol
17:57:16  agian HOW DO I DO THIS MAN. i always make a long discussion cuz i disagree with the whole feild of math most of the time just to find out im stupid
17:57:29  (why am i saying again lol)
17:57:36  (and why am i rambeling)
17:57:39  That's not a real difference. An NFA can be run by checking each possibility on its own, or by checking all possibilities in parallel. That's not a property of languages, but a property of implementations.
17:58:35  true...wait...waaaait. but....waaait. but the resulting history would be different so one would return two or more histrories but the other one only a single
17:58:38  i dont see
17:58:43  how they still are the same
17:58:48  Histories are an implementation detail. They're not part of the language.
17:59:04  tbut still it would be running multiple states in one
17:59:09  and a single in the other
17:59:14  i dont see the like
17:59:17  relation at all
17:59:30  You might have to *implement* them in order to understand the implementation details.
18:07:46  lol
18:07:49  but also
18:07:52  in
18:08:27  fiifinite(i will be saying ff from now on) you could implement it with the detial of each state is labeled by which point is running it
18:08:29  if you do so
18:08:35  it acts like creating states
18:08:38  which
18:08:43  can you do that for an NSA?
18:10:23  like for example
18:10:28  wait no
18:10:35  forget the "like for example"
18:10:49  It's not really coming together for me. I'm guessing that the [] brackets have a special meaning and that there's some sort of rewriting structure?
18:11:26  ???
18:11:32  Otherwise it's really differnet from an NFA. `x *-> y *-> z` is equivalent to two lines, `x -> y` and `x -> z`.
18:11:49  [] just prints the state when ran
18:12:02  empty state halts
18:12:06  but also
18:12:08  then
18:12:17  wait no lol
18:12:19  but like
18:12:25  i still dont see it
18:12:30  NFA?
18:13:06  Non-deterministic Finite Automaton. What you're calling a Non-deterministic State Automaton. Same concept.
18:13:23  oh kk
18:13:25  wait
18:13:29  rlly different?????
18:13:36  hypocrit
18:13:38  lol
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18:15:17  [[Truth-machine]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145777&oldid=144513 * Xff * (-204) /* Backshift */ not a truth machine bruh
18:15:56  bye sorry!!!
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19:04:42  [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (H-M)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145778&oldid=145471 * Userwatt * (+12) forgot to add 
 to JAYSON, oops
19:12:14  [[Snakel]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145779&oldid=145743 * Ractangle * (+224) /* Syntax */
19:20:41  [[Snakel]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145780&oldid=145779 * Ractangle * (+284) /* Examples */
19:21:34  [[Snakel]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145781&oldid=145780 * Ractangle * (+83) /* A+B Problem */
19:21:52  [[Snakel]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145782&oldid=145781 * Ractangle * (+0) /* A+B Problem */
19:29:59  [[MarkupL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145783&oldid=145766 * Ractangle * (+233) /* MarkupL syntax */
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20:07:06  [[Esolangs (irc)]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145784&oldid=120034 * B jonas * (+308) 
20:10:39  [[Esolangs]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145785&oldid=140051 * B jonas * (+48) 
20:11:07  [[Esoteric programming language]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145786&oldid=141348 * B jonas * (+48) 
20:16:53  [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * Aadenboy *  uploaded "[[File:EstritaLogo.png]]"
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20:26:41  [[Snakel]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145788&oldid=145782 * Ractangle * (+183) /* Tour of the language */
20:27:36  [[Snakel]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145789&oldid=145788 * Ractangle * (+59) /* Syntax */
20:28:04  [[Snakel]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145790&oldid=145789 * Ractangle * (+17) /* Syntax */
20:28:28  [[Snakel]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145791&oldid=145790 * Ractangle * (+29) /* Syntax */
20:38:31  [[Snakel]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145792&oldid=145791 * Ractangle * (-8) /* Truth-machine */
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20:53:07  [[Stuley]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145793&oldid=145715 * Ractangle * (+260) /* Syntax */
20:53:51  [[Stuley]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145794&oldid=145793 * Ractangle * (+13) /* Syntax */
21:05:57  [[Stuley]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145795&oldid=145794 * Ractangle * (+277) 
21:20:12  [[Stuley]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145796&oldid=145795 * Ractangle * (+171) /* Syntax */
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21:50:39  [[Stuley]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145797&oldid=145796 * Ractangle * (+92) /* Syntax */
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2024-11-19:

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00:47:28  [[Estrita]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145798 * Aadenboy * (+5596) win
01:07:41  [[User:Aadenboy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145799&oldid=145335 * Aadenboy * (+90) update list
01:08:28  [[User:Aadenboy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145800&oldid=145799 * Aadenboy * (-63) 
01:40:15  https://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/madvise.2.html says that madvise rounds the length up to full pages, even for MADV_DONTNEED, and that this may mean rounding up to huge pagesize if the area is backed by hugepages. does that apply to transparent hugepages, and how the heck are you supposed to handle that? 
01:43:16  found a relevant page: https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=202089
01:43:30  hmm no
01:43:33  that isn't relevant
01:44:05  or... I'm not sure
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01:46:14  I'm confused about what the semantics is supposed to be
02:07:27  I think the kernel demotes huge pages to normal pages in that case. Note also: "MADV_DONTNEED cannot be applied to locked pages, Huge TLB pages, or VM_PFNMAP pages." -- but that shouldn't apply to the *transparent* huge pages support.
02:08:51  I'm quite confident that rounding up to a full huge table would've broken a lot of software when THP was introduced, and we'd have heard about that.
02:09:04  s/table/page/
02:10:42  (Is that quote up-to-date? Hmm.)
02:16:24  how are you supposed to remove whole huge pages if MADV_DONTNEED can't apply to them?
02:21:52  you always have munmap
02:22:52  I'd also like to know how to query for debugging where the kernel has mapped hugepages in areas with transparent hugepages enabled. mincore can tell which pages are in memory, which could help tell me how MADV_DONTNEED worked.
02:36:34  there's a procfile that lists how many hugepages a process is using
02:56:04  I think that the man page does a disservice by saying that the semantics are changed by MADV_DONTNEED and that the other advices are only for performance. The user shouldn't have to change how they access the advice'd page.
02:58:13  If one really *does* want the semantics to change, it looks like the Linux-specific MADV_FREE has that behavior. I'm not gonna guess at why somebody would want that without an munmap().
02:58:21  [[Talk:ight]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145801&oldid=144441 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+107) 
02:58:54  korvo: MADV_FREE is useful if you have an application that maps the entire address space in advance, and does mallocs simply by returning an unused address without telling the kernle
02:59:09  this is useful to save on system calls
02:59:34  ais523: Makes sense for sure.
02:59:34  but it's not a very popular style of programming
03:01:17  Is MADV_DONTNEED useful for maybe databases or game servers where data access patterns aren't sequential or random, but need to be explicitly scheduled? I'd guess that MADV_WILLNEED would be used in tandem.
03:01:56  Maybe worth contrasting Linux man with POSIX man: https://www.man7.org/linux/man-pages/man3/posix_madvise.3.html "shall not affect the semantics of access to memory"
03:08:20  korvo: "since glibc 2.6, POSIX_MADV_DONTNEED is treated as a no-op, because the corresponding madvise(2) value, MADV_DONTNEED, has destructive semantics."
03:09:02  int-e: Ugh. Well, at least they documented it. Thanks.
03:09:51  There's a question how useful the POSIX version is. I guess it'll still be allowed to do something if you mmap a file read-only
03:13:33  or you can encourage the kernel to swap the page out if there's memory pressure
03:13:36  [[RuleLoader]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145802 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+1437) Created page with "{{stub}} '''RuleLoader''' is the algorithm used to simulate .rule files describing different types of [[CA]], also known as '''rule tables''' and '''rule trees'''. A description of the file format is provided in Golly's built-in h
03:15:57  Hmm apparently Go switched from MADV_DONTNEED to MADV_FREE and back again. https://github.com/golang/go/commit/05e6d28849293266028c0bc9e9b0f8d0da38a2e2
03:17:09  "jemalloc plays a game where they call MADV_FREE and then 10s later they call MADV_DONTNEED"
03:17:15  https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/issues/51086
03:17:45  [[User:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145803&oldid=145604 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+4) 
03:17:46  I have no clue why the situation sounds messy.
03:18:34  [[RuleLoader]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145804&oldid=145802 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+82) 
03:19:18  Found LWN: https://lwn.net/Articles/591214/
03:19:25  [[RuleLoader]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145805&oldid=145804 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+74) 
03:20:37  [[ALPACA]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145806&oldid=68574 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+43) 
03:20:56  [[RuleLoader]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145807&oldid=145805 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+25) 
03:23:19  [[RuleLoader]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145808&oldid=145807 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+118) 
03:23:30  korvo: thanks
03:24:05  I wanted to see if RPython has an explanation. They have a comment here: https://github.com/pypy/pypy/blob/main/rpython/rlib/rmmap.py#L860 There are four different madvise_free() implementations; this one for Linux does MADV_FREE followed by MADV_DONTNEED.
03:25:03  Er, if MADV_FREE fails then they try again with MADV_DONTNEED. This is how they free low-level arenas for the JIT and GC.
03:25:51  [[Talk:Matrioshka language]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145809 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+221) Created page with "Can LifeViewer be considered a "Matrioshka language"? ~~~~"
03:27:22  Heh, "so users could the page without any corruption". They accidentally a verb.
03:27:42  But I get it. If I accidentally the page, then no corruption please.
03:29:30  [[RuleLoader]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145810&oldid=145808 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+578) /* Computational class */ new section) (----
03:37:19  [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145811&oldid=145765 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+28) Rule table
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03:46:13  [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145812&oldid=145811 * Aadenboy * (+14) /* E */
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06:01:00  [[RuleLoader]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145814&oldid=145810 * ZCX islptng * (+1697) 
06:06:43  [[RuleLoader]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145815&oldid=145814 * ZCX islptng * (+153) 
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06:26:08  [[Deadfish]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145816&oldid=145754 * Win7HE * (-24) /* Variants of deadfish */
06:28:09  [[Deadshark]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145817&oldid=145760 * Win7HE * (+1) /* Commands */
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06:33:16  [[Deadshark]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145818&oldid=145817 * Win7HE * (+75) /* External Links */
06:58:52  [[Deadshark]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145819&oldid=145818 * Win7HE * (+0) /* Commands */
07:47:17  [[Stuley]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145820&oldid=145797 * Ractangle * (-5) /* Syntax */
07:49:33  [[MarkupL]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145821&oldid=145783 * Ractangle * (-13) /* Cat program */
07:52:03  [[Stuley]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145822&oldid=145820 * Ractangle * (+291) 
07:52:22  [[Stuley]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145823&oldid=145822 * Ractangle * (+3) 
07:52:31  [[Stuley]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145824&oldid=145823 * Ractangle * (-13) 
07:54:19  [[Comment]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145825&oldid=144004 * Ractangle * (+3) /* Snakel */
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08:00:27  [[Talk:Matrioshka language]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145826&oldid=145809 * Yayimhere2(school) * (+138) 
08:05:05  [[Comment]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145827&oldid=145825 * Ractangle * (-1) /* Snakel */
08:05:20  [[Comment]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145828&oldid=145827 * Ractangle * (-1) /* Snakel */
08:05:40  [[Comment]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145829&oldid=145828 * Ractangle * (+4) /* Snakel */
08:06:02  [[Snakel]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145830&oldid=145792 * Ractangle * (+8) /* Syntax */
08:08:10  [[Snakel]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145831&oldid=145830 * Ractangle * (+127) 
08:09:21  [[Talk:Matrioshka language]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145832&oldid=145826 * Ractangle * (+1) 
08:09:53  [[Talk:ight]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145833&oldid=145801 * Ractangle * (+6) 
08:12:34  [[Talk:ight]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145834&oldid=145833 * Ractangle * (+396) 
08:12:44  [[Talk:ight]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145835&oldid=145834 * Ractangle * (+168) 
08:13:01  [[Talk:ight]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145836&oldid=145835 * Ractangle * (+1) 
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10:03:52  [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145837 * Iddi01 * (+11933) I'm getting crazy with [[uniode]]
10:10:32  [[Uniode]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145838&oldid=145479 * Iddi01 * (+679) /*  */ 
10:24:05  I wonder if there's a system call interface that lets a process that's mostly single-threaded conspire with the operating system to lie to programs like top to pretend that it's busy on all processor cores, for when the customer or PR department or whatever heard that you can make any program run 24 times as fast by using multithreading and demands that you use it, but the task isn't actually reasonably 
10:24:11  paralellizable. This would be especially for hyperthreading where starting dummy threads could slow down the main thread even if they don't do any memory access.
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11:09:42  !ztest clock >>>+<-<-(>(-)*128<+[<(-)*111(>)*9(+)*111(+.)*33(<)*9(-)*111(>)*10(+)*111(+.)*33(<)*10(---+)*-1]-)*8>+[-((-)*256<+[<(---+)*-1]->)*8(-)*96431<(+)*65(>)*9(>[(+)*111(+.)*32>])*19](+)*21<(-)*33(>)*11([(-)*106[-.][--+[--+]]>]>)*21
11:09:43  iddi01.clock: points 9.43, score 40.93, rank 1/47 (+3)
11:09:58  !zjoust clock >>>+<-<-(>(-)*128<+[<(-)*111(>)*9(+)*111(+.)*33(<)*9(-)*111(>)*10(+)*111(+.)*33(<)*10(---+)*-1]-)*8>+[-((-)*256<+[<(---+)*-1]->)*8(-)*96431<(+)*65(>)*9(>[(+)*111(+.)*32>])*19](+)*21<(-)*33(>)*11([(-)*106[-.][--+[--+]]>]>)*21
11:09:59  iddi01.clock: points 9.43, score 40.93, rank 1/47 (+3)
11:14:48  [[BF Joust champions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145839&oldid=144978 * Iddi01 * (+1018) /* 2024 */ wanted to wait until 2025, but i couldn't resist
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12:21:27  fizzie: After looking at Core War which have multiple hills with different settings, i have an idea of a similar thing for BF joust:
12:21:28  Tiny hill: programs must have size lower than 100 excluding comments
12:21:28  Nano hill: programs must have size lower than 250, b u t  abbreviations are treated as comments, so (+)*5 will mean + and so on.
12:21:29  Experimental hill: To allow for more complex strategies, tape size is 15-50 instead of 10-30, cells wrap at 512 instead of 256, and timeout is 250000 cycles.
12:21:29  2D hill: The tape becomes a grid with the two flags at opposite corners. < and ^ move towards your flag and > and v move towards the opponent's. Grid size is 5x5 to 15x15, including non-square ones
12:21:30  Fork hill: Add a Y instruction that works the same as in Brainfork except both threads share the same tape, Y takes one cycle and the threads execute sequentially with the parent thread going first, each taking one cycle.
12:21:30  These hills would ideally also have 47 slots, but the 2D hill could have fewer slots since each two programs plays 242 matches!
12:21:31  See the Core War sites https://sal.discontinuity.info/index.php and http://www.koth.org/koth.html for reference.
12:26:25  perlbot echo test
12:26:25  iddi01: test
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12:27:12  ^echo perlbot echo ^echo
12:27:12  perlbot echo ^echo perlbot echo ^echo
12:27:13  fungot: ^echo perlbot echo ^echo
12:27:44  ^echo: test
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12:48:46  perlbot call test
12:48:47  iddi01: []
12:49:29  perlbot call tеst
12:49:29  iddi01: No factoid found. Did you mean one of these: [_test] [test] [tickit] [.tc] [.tg] [.tj] [.tk] [tk] [tx] [.tz]
12:56:10 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…).
12:59:11  ^def echo_once bf ,[.,]
12:59:11  Defined.
12:59:44  ^echo_once ^echo test
12:59:44  ^echo test
12:59:54  ^echo_once `echo test
12:59:54  `echo test
12:59:56  test
13:00:19  ^echo_once `echo perlbot echo test
13:00:19  `echo perlbot echo test
13:00:20  perlbot echo test
13:00:21  HackEso: test
13:00:42  `echo ^echo test
13:00:44  ​^echo test
13:03:30  `echo perlbot echo fungot
13:03:30  iddi01: i've used guile ( for snd) and gambit ( with the new " agile"
13:03:31  perlbot echo fungot
13:03:31  HackEso: fungot
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13:28:29  [[~~]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145840&oldid=145486 * Yayimhere * (+65) /* syntax */
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14:27:04  [[OTS]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145841&oldid=145657 * Yayimhere * (+2) /* memory */
14:36:41  [[OTS]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145842&oldid=145841 * Yayimhere * (+213) /* commands */
14:53:20  [[User:Win7HE]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145843&oldid=145751 * Win7HE * (+8) 
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14:59:09  hmmmmm
14:59:37  hello? why are you "hmm"ing
14:59:54  testing
15:00:11  testing what
15:00:28  yea nothing
15:00:36  lol
15:00:43  https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2024-11-19.html
15:01:03  heres the logs for today
15:05:56  testing
15:10:15  [[Eso]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145844 * Win7HE * (+28) Created page with "i think you mean [[Esolang]]"
15:10:40  oh
15:10:47  that happpens
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15:20:03  umm
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15:20:38  this is a nice number
15:20:45  lol
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15:21:07  yea i dissconnected
15:21:14 -!- m5zs7k has joined.
15:23:13  e
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15:23:59  thank god
15:24:37 -!- win7he25 has changed nick to win7he.
15:24:52  ok now im me
15:27:46  Etic poramig lage
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16:00:26  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * DevThatCodes *  New user account
16:01:46  hey korvo umm i want to disagree with you on that NSA FF discussion we had yester day
16:08:18  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145845&oldid=145747 * DevThatCodes * (+91) /* Introductions */
16:08:51  lol
16:09:41  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145846&oldid=145845 * DevThatCodes * (+99) /* Introductions */
16:12:27  [[Zudjn]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145847 * DevThatCodes * (+73) Created page with "Zudjn is a small Esolang that i have not made yet, but i am working on it"
16:24:20  [[Zudjn]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145848&oldid=145847 * DevThatCodes * (+64) 
16:30:03  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Malbolger *  New user account
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17:14:56  wWwwW: What's up?
17:15:07  well im god what about you
17:15:10  *good
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17:16:02  Just woke up and watered the plants.
17:18:00  damn
17:18:01  wai
17:18:04  but
17:18:06  oh yea
17:26:03  wWwwW: So, what were your thoughts?
17:26:34  well
17:26:39  i had that pointer yesterday
17:27:25  first of all in the "run each possible program at the same time" has more states running then "actually do it randomly each time" has only one running
17:27:26  also
17:28:28  in FF if you say "i will label each state by what pointer is running it" you are actually creating states
17:28:45  the difference is the both pointers run in the same program
17:29:38  I learned the old ways, so I only know this in terms of Mealy and Moore machines, which I constantly mix up. Nonetheless, I don't see how states are being created here.
17:29:51  hmmmm
17:29:59  i dont know how to explain it otherwise
17:30:05  ok heres another question
17:30:08  FSMs don't have pointers. They have states and inputs, along with a transition function that maps a (state, input) pair to the next state.
17:30:23  waaait
17:30:38  how i understand it theres a pointer that trantisions and points to current state
17:30:50  Evaluating an NFA can be done by simulating multiple pointers on top of its DFA, *or* by expanding the NFA to a DFA with exponentially-many states; they're two different equivalent techniques.
17:30:51  thats how FF works anyway
17:31:26  A pointer is an implementation detail. A pointer to a state is an implementation of a state.
17:31:43  true
17:31:55  but in FF you have to implement it that way otherwise it would be cheating
17:32:45  That's pro-DRM thinking.
17:32:50  ?
17:33:08  That's the same sort of thinking that leads to people trying to control what you can run on your computer.
17:33:17  lol
17:33:31  well agian you dont have to but thats the way i specify it
17:35:07  ok we can agree that we disagree
17:35:19  Nah, I don't really go for that whole Discord-coded playground approach with imaginary rules and geass-like restrictions that are magically cast on people by saying the special words.
17:35:57  Do you think that it's cheating to implement an optimized Brainfuck interpreter? A Malbolge decryptor? A C compiler which defines some of the undefined behaviors?
17:36:12  no
17:39:41  wWwwW: Sorry, that was mean of me. I'm glad that you're discovering important concepts like FSMs, even if I'm frustrated that you aren't engaging yourself with them.
18:02:13  [[Eso]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145849&oldid=145844 * Ractangle * (-7) Redirected page to [[Esolang]]
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18:52:53  [[Talk:Eso]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145850 * Aadenboy * (+306) Created page with "is this necessary? ~~~~"
19:10:17  [[Talk:Eso]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145851&oldid=145850 * Ractangle * (+204) 
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19:17:53  [[Talk:Eso]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145852&oldid=145851 * Aadenboy * (+297) 
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19:53:14  [[Comment]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145853&oldid=145829 * Ractangle * (+18) /* Gammaline languages */
20:01:55  I do not think that it is cheating to implement a optimized brainfuck interpreter, at least in general. (This is not a requirement to implement a optimized brainfuck interpreter, though.)
20:10:18  Sure. I was too rhetorical. I didn't have a good reaction to "you have to implement it that way otherwise it would be cheating". When it comes from a teenager, it's cute and naive, but in the USA it usually comes from preachers and legislators.
20:46:42  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Maza *  New user account
20:55:34  [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145854&oldid=145846 * Maza * (+168) 
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21:38:42  [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145855&oldid=145837 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-194) Categories
21:41:54  [[Manuever]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145856&oldid=145684 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+153) Categories
21:42:57  [[g]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145857&oldid=145694 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+108) Categories
21:44:31  [[AnnoyingScript]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145858&oldid=145728 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+115) Categories
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21:47:16  [[Stuley]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145859&oldid=145824 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+51) Stub, categories
21:49:19  [[Pararedox]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145860&oldid=145733 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+32) Template, categories
21:51:34  [[Halforth]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145861&oldid=145770 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+71) Link, categories
21:53:13  Is there a bijective base 2 Morse code? It seem to me that it can be done, with zero meaning a space between words, 1 for E, 2 for T, etc.
21:55:29  [[Estrita]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145862&oldid=145798 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+24) Category
21:58:02  [[RuleLoader]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145863&oldid=145815 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (-42) Remove incorrect {{deadlink}}s and empty section, add link
21:59:28  [[Zudjn]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145864&oldid=145848 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+82) Stub, categories
22:01:13  [[Special:Log/newusers]] create  * Mint *  New user account
22:01:24  [[Fiifinite]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145865&oldid=145776 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+69) Categories
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23:28:22  [[Pi Calculus]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145866&oldid=139870 * Woofmao * (+371) Extend cat example

2024-11-20:

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00:34:39  [[User:Kevidryon2]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145867&oldid=110339 * Kevidryon2 * (+105) 
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02:23:22  [[Amo gus]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145868&oldid=135843 * Qawtykit * (+61) added DUP implementation
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04:43:55  [[User:CreeperBomb/Idea]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145869 * CreeperBomb * (+7359) Created page with "== Description == All operators have a default arity, which can be changed with placing a number of dots before it - one dot per extra input. Multiple dots can be shortened to ".#" for a numeric digit "#" (note: 0 means 10 dots, 1 means 11, and 2 means
04:48:21  [[Amo gus]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145870&oldid=145868 * MihaiEso * (+129) 
04:49:33  [[Amo gus]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145871&oldid=145870 * MihaiEso * (+0) 
05:37:14  [[User:CreeperBomb/Idea]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145872&oldid=145869 * CreeperBomb * (+587) 
05:54:21  [[User:CreeperBomb/Idea]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145873&oldid=145872 * CreeperBomb * (+324) /* Example programs */
05:56:44  [[User:CreeperBomb/Idea]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145874&oldid=145873 * CreeperBomb * (+106) /* Print null */
06:30:04 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
06:31:58  . o O ( progress bar, n. -- a device that bars you from progressing )
07:39:14  [[Comment]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145875&oldid=145853 * Ractangle * (-56) /* Snakel */
07:40:04  [[Comment]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145876&oldid=145875 * Ractangle * (-93) /* Snakel */
07:58:21 -!- tromp has joined.
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08:18:51  [[User:MihaiEso]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145877&oldid=145232 * MihaiEso * (+62) /* Others */
08:22:47  [[Translated ORK/Mihai Again16]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145878&oldid=144114 * MihaiEso * (+41) 
08:22:59  [[Translated ORK/None1 again9]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145879&oldid=144197 * MihaiEso * (+42) 
08:23:08  [[Translated ORK/None1 again9]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145880&oldid=145879 * MihaiEso * (+1) 
08:24:41  [[Joke language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145881&oldid=145318 * MihaiEso * (+92) /* Horribly translated variants */
08:24:54  [[Joke language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145882&oldid=145881 * MihaiEso * (+48) /* Horribly translated variants */
08:25:22  [[Translated ORK/Mihai Again17]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145883&oldid=144282 * MihaiEso * (+42) 
08:25:31  [[Translated ORK/Mihai Again17]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145884&oldid=145883 * MihaiEso * (+1) 
08:28:10  [[Translated ORK/Mihai Again18]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145885 * MihaiEso * (+2389) Created page with "Future comes by, waiting for worse results! ~~~~  1. Take that [[Translated ORK/Mihai Again17|shitty sh*t]]  
 Do you know how to repeat the action of hitting the big car by the family? Is the ability to write about the lack of desire in everyo
08:45:51  [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145886&oldid=145855 * Iddi01 * (+595) Separate the unicode by lines to be clearer
08:50:31  [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145887&oldid=145886 * Iddi01 * (-549) Wait, redirect messed up transclusion
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09:22:48  [[Talk:Translated ORK/Mihai Again18]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145888 * Iddi01 * (+515) Created page with "I suggest merging all these into one single page ([[Translated ORK]]) and the other sequence into [[Translated ZhongWen]] because they aren't essentially different and aren't actually languages, and so don't deserve individual pages, especially w
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09:53:43  [[Esolang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145889&oldid=8535 * Win7HE * (+30) Removed redirect to [[Esoteric programming language]]
09:54:30  [[Esolang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145890&oldid=145889 * Win7HE * (-9) 
09:54:40  [[Esolang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145891&oldid=145890 * Win7HE * (+1) Redirected page to [[Esoteric programming language]]
09:55:33  [[Eso]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145892&oldid=145849 * Win7HE * (+22) 
09:55:43  [[Esolang]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145893&oldid=145891 * Win7HE * (-22) 
10:23:57  Hi
10:34:25  [[TW'sLE!!!]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145894&oldid=142044 * Iddi01 * (+1240) The code is not working on latest versions, add a weak one that do to compensate
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10:55:26  [[Snakel]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145895&oldid=145831 * Ractangle * (+2) /* Syntax */
11:08:22  [[EchoLang (None1)]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145896 * None1 * (+1797) Created page with "'''EchoLang''' is an esolang prompted by [[User:None1]] and invented by Cursor AI: ==Commands== + : Increment the current memory cell. - : Decrement the current memory cell. > : Move the memory pointer to the right. < : Move the memory pointer to the left. . : Ou
11:24:05  [[User talk:ZCX islptng]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145897&oldid=145678 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+229) /* Pronunciation */ new section) (----
11:28:20  [[User talk:ZCX islptng]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145898&oldid=145897 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+127) /* Pronunciation */
11:40:41  [[Talk:Empty Program]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145899 * None1 * (+38) Created page with "This is the same as [[NOP]], isn't it."
11:42:52  [[Talk:Empty Program]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145900&oldid=145899 * None1 * (+235) 
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12:02:28  hello'
12:02:42  (yes this is wWwwW wutever)'
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12:06:44  wadda thibnj of tis?: https://esolangs.org/wiki/%C3%89%C5%A1%C5%93%C5%82%C3%A3%C3%B1g
12:09:06  it's unclear what the program does, or what the program even is
12:09:27  ??'
12:09:32  e.g. are the rules always the same or are they specified by the program? and if they're specified by the program, how?
12:09:49  im very confused
12:09:59  (also i forgot to specify syntax lol)'
12:10:45  right, yes, that might be the confusion – it isn't clear from the article what influence the program has on the execution of the language, explaining the syntax might help with that
12:11:02  ok
12:11:12  well
12:11:26  the program defines what chars have computation applied
12:12:10  does that make sense?
12:13:22  it doesn't have enough detail
12:13:44  yea it sint syntax but like
12:13:47  ok
12:14:17  x:y creates a rule where x is the char and y is the number. then on those cycles that are specified x changes based on that
12:17:06  OK, I think I understand now, although it isn't explained that well
12:17:28  YEA  im bad at that''
12:17:33  srry for caps
12:17:45  it is sub-TC because it's a sort of neighbour-independent substitution system, which can't usefully store arbitrary amounts of data (they can expand memory infinitely but not make use of that when reading it)
12:18:23  ? it can make use of what its readin with the prime number rule i think
12:18:25  right?
12:19:09  cuz it reads the data and stores that data in itself
12:21:18  so the problem is you're making lots of copies of the base string, but those can't interact with each other in any awy
12:21:45  OH yea
12:21:47  well'
12:21:51  actually theres a change
12:21:59  if its not a single char but  string
12:22:09  cuz then it isnt independent anymore
12:22:26  right, that seems like an easy fix
12:22:50  you could have both on same page
12:22:56  like on 2C
12:23:06  [[Language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145901&oldid=145812 * Ractangle * (-18) /* A */
12:24:52  well when i get home ill do that'
12:25:04  do you think that becomes TC?
12:25:14  (and no you cant just say that its just /// now)
12:25:25  I'm not sure, but if it does it's probably in a boring way that avoids most of the functionality of the language
12:25:55  yea
12:26:00  but thats for most langs
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12:51:50  [[Special:Log/move]] move_redir  * Ractangle *  moved [[Dumbfuck]] to [[Dumbf*ck]] over redirect
12:51:51  [[Special:Log/move]] move_redir  * Ractangle *  moved [[Talk:Dumbfuck]] to [[Talk:Dumbf*ck]] over redirect
12:51:51  [[Special:Log/delete]] delete_redir  * Ractangle *  Ractangle deleted redirect [[Dumbf*ck]] by overwriting: Deleted to make way for move from "[[Dumbfuck]]"
12:51:51  [[Special:Log/delete]] delete_redir  * Ractangle *  Ractangle deleted redirect [[Talk:Dumbf*ck]] by overwriting: Deleted to make way for move from "[[Talk:Dumbfuck]]"
12:56:24  [[g]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145906&oldid=145857 * Yayimhere * (+486) /* semantics */
12:57:57  [[ACCUMULATOR]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145907&oldid=129490 * UndoneStudios * (+117) 
12:58:20  [[ACCUMULATOR]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145908&oldid=145907 * UndoneStudios * (+29) 
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12:58:58  hey ais i changed it
13:12:06  *ais523
13:13:33  well, it's a language now – I'm not sure it'll inspire anyone to actually use it, the rules are somewhat arbitrary
13:13:41  yea
13:13:49  it *is* just a keyboard lol
13:16:39  sadly im to stupid to proov it TC
13:16:46  unless i. make 10 esolangs to proove it
13:18:24  or maybe even there i cant
13:18:29  im already stuck lol
13:21:38  I think that most of my languages aim to be TC in unusual ways – this is in many cases a side effect of being designed to be powerful for proving things TC
13:21:52  this does too
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13:47:51  [[Translated ORK/PSTF Again-Viginte]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145909 * PrySigneToFry * (+2323) Created page with "Translated ORK/Mihai Again18|HFE D  H$0H? H? H'E D  H$0H? H? HE D  H?{?  H? tH?r?  tH?p?  tHu H?Q?  H?Q?  H?Q?  H?Q?  H?8 H(?, 8H?? HtAH?? HtH?? /G H?  H? L? E3?? G H?X7 H8+ ..."
13:49:54  [[Translated ORK/Mihai Again18]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145910&oldid=145885 * PrySigneToFry * (+144) 
13:50:54  [[Joke language list]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145911&oldid=145882 * PrySigneToFry * (+125) 
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14:26:42  [[User talk:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145912&oldid=145744 * ZCX islptng * (+109) 
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15:36:50  hey ais523 i wanted to proove TC and i wanted to know if you had any esolangs that i could try to use?
15:37:20  wWwwW: what do you mean by "use" here – are you looking for languages to prove TCness of, or languages to prove TCness with?
15:37:56  with
15:38:03  frick i need to be better at words lol
15:38:29  normally I use The Waterfall Model for anything that's capable of representing enough unbounded counters
15:38:42  ooh yea
15:38:47  that makes sense to use
15:38:49  or tag variants (e.g. Echo Tag or Genera Tag) for anything that has a queue
15:38:57  k
15:39:32  there are some more special-purpose TC-proving languages, like Delta Relay for languages which are bad at "resetting" their control flow, but they aren't useful as often
15:39:48  yea
15:43:50  what would you reccomnd me tho?
15:43:57  (other than waterfall)
15:45:38  cyclic tag, minsky machines
15:45:50  k
15:46:22  I've made many "slightly easier to implement than cyclic tag" languages, but most languages are able to implement the original, it's only when that doesn't work that you need to reach for a more powerful option
15:48:35  also can you help me. im pretty bad at TC'ness prooving
15:49:29  i know how to ignore the odd rule
15:51:30  normally it is easier to compile than interpret – think about how you would compile from the TC-proving language to the language you're trying to prove
15:51:41  yea
15:51:44  if there isn't an obvious way to do it, move onto a different TC-proving language
15:51:51  k
15:52:11  cant compile also mean like translate?
15:52:11  like
15:52:24  underload was translated into umm
15:52:31  unlambda
15:53:38  a simple translation is a sort of compiler
15:53:46  yea
15:53:49  thank god
15:54:15  or, well, it's a correspondence between languages which can trivially be used as the basis of a compiler
15:54:25  yea
15:57:25  [[g]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145913&oldid=145906 * Yayimhere * (-80) /* semantics(g Normal) */
16:01:00  [[g]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145914&oldid=145913 * Yayimhere * (+87) /* semantics(g Normal) */
16:02:24  [[g]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145915&oldid=145914 * Yayimhere * (-1) /* Compl class */
16:03:42  [[g]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145916&oldid=145915 * Yayimhere * (+36) /* g bd */
16:05:00  [[g]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145917&oldid=145916 * Yayimhere * (-20) /* syntax */
16:05:45  well ill do some research then
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16:10:42  [[User:Yayimhere/Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145918&oldid=144472 * Yayimhere * (-5367) /* golfing lang */
16:10:58  [[User:Yayimhere/Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145919&oldid=145918 * Yayimhere * (-502) /* APL x BASIC x MM */
16:44:06  [[g]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145920&oldid=145917 * Yayimhere * (+89) /* syntax */
16:47:42  [[User:Yayimhere/Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145921&oldid=145919 * Yayimhere * (+122) /* research */
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16:52:48  [[User:Yayimhere/Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145922&oldid=145921 * Yayimhere * (+23) /* research */
16:53:31  hey ais523 how many counters does waterfall need
16:53:42  7
16:53:51  or, well, maybe it can do with less, but 7's the minimum we've proven
16:53:55  frickin dmammit
16:54:21  although if you're going down to that few counters, the numbers get very large
16:54:38  this is partly because the waterfall model uses counters both as control flow and as data
16:54:58  if you have separate control flow, you have a counter machine, and those work with only two counters
16:55:18  im already so stuck
16:56:04  [[User:Yayimhere/Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145923&oldid=145922 * Yayimhere * (+103) /* research */
16:58:59  help meeee plz
16:59:40  the way the string keeps expanding makes TCness proofs difficult
16:59:50  yea
17:00:01  there are at least two old languages like that which are still unsolved, although people gave up trying fairly quickly
17:00:19  https://esolangs.org/wiki/Xigxag is fun, it was widely suspected not to be TC but that's hard to prove
17:00:21  well i wont
17:00:29  i hve read xigxag!
17:03:11  i wil NEVER GIVE UP
17:09:28  ok
17:09:33  so if we have these counters
17:10:10  every prim iteration the counters nothhing happens
17:11:59  [[g]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145924&oldid=145920 * Yayimhere * (+140) /* syntax */
17:15:14  [[User:Yayimhere/Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145925&oldid=145923 * Yayimhere * (+165) /* research */
17:18:08  well
17:18:29  know i know how to ignore different rules and how to make counters trhat jump to some value n whenever they hit 1
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17:25:25  [[User:Yayimhere/Sandbox]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145926&oldid=145925 * Yayimhere * (+1) /* research */
17:25:50  hey ais523(if i need to stop pinging me just tell me) have i actually made progres?^^
17:27:08  I'm too tired to tell, I should go to bed (but I'm not sure if I'll be able to tell even when more awake)
17:28:10  k
17:28:16  go to bed then
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17:37:17  [[g]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145927&oldid=145924 * Yayimhere * (+21) /* syntax */
17:42:11  [[Eso]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145928&oldid=145892 * Ractangle * (-22) 
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20:35:49  that reminds me, we'll still have to try to work out if we can get a turing-completness proof for Imprecision
20:39:58  fungot, is clothespin really a synonym for clothes peg, the fastner used to fix clothes onto a drying line? because that sounds rather silly
20:39:58  b_jonas: a breadtangle!! i wanta tell you you're a carrier! to generate html
21:05:09  [[Special:Log/move]] move  * Ractangle *  moved [[2.210*]] to [[Xtrod]]
21:10:57  [[Xtrod]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145931&oldid=145929 * Ractangle * (+333) 
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22:06:20  [[Xtrod]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145932&oldid=145931 * Ractangle * (-76) 
22:11:58  Good Night.
22:12:54  [[Xtrod]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145933&oldid=145932 * Ractangle * (+395) /* Instruction minimise */
22:13:35  [[Xtrod]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145934&oldid=145933 * Ractangle * (+13) /* Instruction minimise */
22:15:39  [[Xtrod]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145935&oldid=145934 * Ractangle * (+74) /* See also */
22:16:30  [[Xtrod]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145936&oldid=145935 * Ractangle * (+60) /* Instruction minimise */
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22:29:12  [[BF instruction minimalization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145937&oldid=129803 * Ractangle * (+535) /* Step 4: Finished */
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22:33:26  ais523: I don't know if I linked it here, but I wrote a guest post for the PyPy/RPython blog last week: https://pypy.org/posts/2024/11/guest-post-final-encoding-in-rpython.html
22:34:17  You had mentioned being surprised at the BF monoid, so I figured you'd appreciate the punchline: the monoid makes it possible to optimize a final encoding with nice algebraic reasoning.
22:35:11 * korvo déjà vu
22:47:43  [[BF instruction minimalization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145938&oldid=145937 * Ractangle * (+49) /* Step 2:Merge the input and output */
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23:47:13  [[Talk:Nythop]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145939&oldid=145429 * Luxedo * (+825) Response about copyright

2024-11-21:

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00:30:58  I was wondering why this text was so hard to select: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/select-kerning.png ...what a stupid side effect of aggressive kerning
00:31:36  (The text in question was "SBF should be the new crypto czar" which I find funny. Well, as long as it doesn't actually happen.)
00:33:10  (it continues ", a thread.  1/666" which didn't hit for me.)
00:34:06  [[User talk:ZCX islptng]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145940&oldid=145898 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+202) /* Pronunciation */
00:39:59  [[User talk:ZCX islptng]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145941&oldid=145940 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+12) /* Pronunciation */ It could be by design) (----
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00:47:43  [[Relative subleq]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145942 * Zackbuildit777 * (+2080) Created page with "Relative Subleq is an [[OISC]] esoteric programming language directly based on standard [[Subleq]].  Memory in Relative Subleq is made up of 3 elements: # a memory pointer, called P # a memory tape, unbounded in both directions, with each cell being an un
01:10:02  [[User talk:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145943&oldid=145912 * ZCX islptng * (+366) 
01:12:38  [[User talk:Zackbuildit777]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145944 * ZCX islptng * (+370) Created page with "'''I've comed up with the idea [[Relative subleq]] 3 months ago! OMG! The same idea!''' ~~~~"
01:14:32  korvo: oh is that monoid what you're using to "normalize" brainfuck code when computing program sizes for the BB gauge?
01:15:09 * int-e had not connected those dots, but the timing is suggestive.
02:25:01  int-e: It is now, yes. Previously I was using a smart constructor for the loop idioms and a handrolled iterator for the peephole. Now they're unified via one monoidal action, which is kind of cool.
02:25:57  I hadn't intended to use my own code for the BB gauge, but I couldn't find a decent Brainfuck normalizer anywhere in nixpkgs and didn't want to package Somebody Else's Python.
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03:03:25  [[User talk:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145945&oldid=145943 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+62) /* Some CA stuff */ Added disclaimer) (----
03:07:59  [[Windmill]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=145946 * RainbowDash * (+2747) Create Page
03:09:54  [[Windmill]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145947&oldid=145946 * RainbowDash * (+2201) js
03:10:16  [[Windmill]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145948&oldid=145947 * RainbowDash * (+4) 
03:17:04  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/One per generation]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145949&oldid=145740 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+141) 
03:21:08  [[Special:Log/upload]] upload  * RainbowDash *  uploaded "[[File:Windmill logo.png]]"
03:22:28  [[Windmill]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145951&oldid=145948 * RainbowDash * (+63) 
03:22:47  [[Windmill]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145952&oldid=145951 * RainbowDash * (+5) wtf logo placmenet
03:23:48  [[Windmill]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145953&oldid=145952 * RainbowDash * (+106) /* Variables */
03:27:32  [[Windmill]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145954&oldid=145953 * RainbowDash * (+8) /* Variables */
03:27:40  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/One per generation]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145955&oldid=145949 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+450) ----) (Smaller
03:27:57  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/One per generation]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145956&oldid=145955 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+2) 
03:28:51  [[User:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries/One per generation]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145957&oldid=145956 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+50) 
03:30:15  [[Special:Log/upload]] overwrite  * RainbowDash *  uploaded a new version of "[[File:Windmill logo.png]]"
03:34:06  [[User talk:ZCX islptng]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145959&oldid=145941 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+348) /* Life viewer bug */ new section: birth and death count is wrong) (----
03:38:08  [[Windmill]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145960&oldid=145954 * RainbowDash * (+484) Operators
03:39:15  [[Windmill]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145961&oldid=145960 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+84) /* Computational class */ new section
03:40:58  [[Windmill]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145962&oldid=145961 * RainbowDash * (+12) attention
04:28:02  [[User:RainbowDash]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145963&oldid=145317 * RainbowDash * (+13) 
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06:40:30  [[Xtrod]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145964&oldid=145936 * Ractangle * (+0) /* Instruction minimise */
06:56:54  [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145965&oldid=145887 * Iddi01 * (+245) Make this a soft redirect, that's the closest to what i want while preserving transclusion
07:11:17  [[User talk:Ais523]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145966&oldid=145674 * Iddi01 * (+668) /* Can you help fix this mess */ new section
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09:14:33  [[Esolang:Categorization]]  https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=145967&oldid=143326 * Ractangle * (+5) /* Input/output capabilities */