< 1733270425 171140 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :traditionally unix does this using the convention of sticking a ".d/" everywhere < 1733270437 459309 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, so you can have something that can be interpreted either as a file or as a directory, and the two views don't necessarily have anything in common? < 1733270438 214622 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :e.g. profile vs profile.d < 1733270447 604498 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh, "duality" in the sense of "two approaches", like particle-wave duality. < 1733270454 556444 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: yes < 1733270479 299465 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1733270488 102221 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :so like it's useful to have it as two views of the same object < 1733270496 830833 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :for example, profile and profile.d/ < 1733270539 547711 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Not all filesystems are like this; some filesystems have objects which are only files or only directories. git has `blob` and `tree`. The event-sourced filesystems like ZFS, btrfs, bcachefs, etc. also distinguish between files and directories. < 1733270546 765194 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :or something you'd traditionally do as foo.lua + foo/bar.lua < 1733270555 106521 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Some non-file-systems are like this, e.g. Gopher. < 1733270567 214310 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: sure, but which API is more general < 1733270593 802976 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Soni: at some point, "more general" becomes a matter of perspective < 1733270626 772707 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :a Perl scalar can be interpreted either as an integer or as a string, normally the two interpretations are compatible in the sense that the integer interpretation is the numerical value of the string < 1733270637 674097 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Soni: I don't think it changes the API meaningfully. Not like e.g. capability theory, which requires everything to be relative to some parent. < 1733270640 195091 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but you can create a Perl scalar where the two interpretations are unrelated < 1733270664 32391 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can use the garbage filesystem from the better API (we do it all the time with http), but you can't use the better filesystem with a garbage API (don't even bother mounting a webdav on a modern OS, the experience sucks. just use a webdav library instead.) < 1733270664 533227 :mtm!~textual@47.202.75.129 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1733270682 11017 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :does that make it more general? in one sense, yes; in another sense, no because it's more general still to use a scheme where things can have arbitrary types with arbitrary stringifications and intifications, and Perl has that too < 1733270694 874478 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :(wait is webdav the right thing, we don't remember if it's the thing we're thinking of) < 1733270714 784468 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Soni: For yet another example, consider Tahoe-LAFS or its relatives. Every piece of data is a small binary file, including directories; a directory is merely a special file format. In Tahoe, that format includes a cryptographic signature to prevent tampering, but that's optional. < 1733270732 644537 :mtm!~textual@47.202.75.129 JOIN #esolangs mtm :Textual User < 1733270751 722467 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: how does the filesystem handle things that are conceptually large binary files, like videos? < 1733270757 938821 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :we would also do away with the path DSL personally < 1733270806 198815 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :(we have too many competing path DSLs, just use arrays of filenames already) < 1733270824 248327 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: For Tahoe in particular, there's both a big-file extension and a chunking extension baked into today's protocol. However, Tahoe was intended to be used with Usenet-style error-encoding tools like zfec, which pre-chunk everything and apply a parity coding. < 1733270883 526923 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: right < 1733270908 619585 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Another technique is my DHT Radio, which trades space for time. A constant amount of data ( 1733271711 973933 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Estrita14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147408&oldid=147395 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+8) 10mark as wip I guess > 1733272220 931516 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07PRINT14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147409&oldid=137153 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+22) 10/* Examples */ < 1733272527 113663 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I did have some ideas relating to some of such thing before, that a operating system design that does not have directory structures, although any file can contain links to other files (and files also have forks, although they are not limited to two forks). < 1733272560 71244 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Functions such as "fopen" would not be available (although "fmemopen", "fopencookie", etc can still be used), so some other functions will be needed. < 1733272579 657526 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I am not sure what.) < 1733272663 307135 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Probably the reference to a file will appear as a opaque object but it can be read from or written to a file. < 1733272697 13110 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :It requires all disk accesses to be structured. It's a block device; so, reads always return a block-sized rich structure with lots of attached data. < 1733272756 359887 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Then, with OS support, a reference to a block can be encoded in a rich structure s.t. user-level code isn't allowed to print out the raw address directly, or access it directly, etc. The typical pattern for that is the "c-table", which is just an array of file-descriptor-like objects. < 1733272869 701438 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yes, I would think it would be like file-descriptor-like objects, although I had consider to make them as "capabilities", so a link to a file can also appear as a capability. < 1733272873 563507 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :TBH I'd just look at seL4 and figure out how to use that instead of reinventing the wheel. < 1733272959 5740 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :once we have file-dir duality, there's no reason to bother with "forks" < 1733273026 456611 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I would think it is worth looking anyways, whether or not it can be used as it is < 1733273068 718040 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Maybe you are right. < 1733273203 777690 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Another idea I had is transactional file system. Furthermore, I think that forks can still be useful, to identify parts of files that can be written independently (to avoid having to move stuff around a lot; if necessary, a function could be added to efficiently move data from one fork to another fork in the same file). > 1733273229 950221 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Quantum Nothing14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=147410 5* 03ZCX islptng 5* (+616) 10Created page with "This is an esolang created by islptng. ==Syntax== Every program with 1 byte or more is invalid. It runs the following code, which raises a Syntax Error: +++++++++[->+++++++++<]>++.<++++++[->++++++<]>++.<+++[->---<]>--.++++++.<++++[->----<]>---.<++++[->++++< > 1733273316 133366 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:ZCX islptng14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147411&oldid=146915 5* 03ZCX islptng 5* (+102) 10 < 1733273364 576127 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, I just had a realisation – files could do with a concept of whether they're still actively being appended to or not < 1733273395 403250 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :for certain special files, like pipes, this already exists – if you read all the data from a pipe, but the write end is still open, the read will block rather than returning EOF < 1733273412 423890 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Transactions are important for sure. I think a lot about the way that both git and Tahoe (and I hear Fuchsia's storage as well?) separate an immutable content-addressed storage layer below, from a mutable tree-like naming system on top. < 1733273416 128213 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but this is useful for regular files too, e.g. because you're using the file both for streaming and recording < 1733273472 546876 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I wrote a ttyrec player that is able to stream from a growing regular file – it checks to see if the file has grown to know whether to switch into streaming mode – but then it isn't able to know when to *stop* reading from it so the video length just grows indefinitely < 1733273593 964435 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yes, sometimes it might be useful, although maybe there are other ways to do it < 1733273748 160645 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: yeah, I know, and what's more useful in those cases is getting notified when the file grows, but I'm generally fine with the writer and the reader program having to cooperate by some protocol using something outside that append-only file in these cases < 1733273844 539795 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: we can't really apply one standard to regular files anyway. we have two to four different ways of locking a file; when a file is overwritten or a logfile cycled there are like three different ways to do that; etc. < 1733273946 676024 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :And it turns out, contrary to standard UNIX lore, that end users sometimes *do* just want to stream GiB of data without saving any of it. < 1733274009 259845 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :...I mean, there's named FIFOs, but UNIX wouldn't support the append mode for ordinary files if they didn't expect the streaming behaviors y'all're describing. > 1733274269 350505 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07This esolang is not a push-down automata14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147412&oldid=115648 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (-32) 10/* External Resources */ > 1733274311 639725 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07This esolang is not a push-down automata14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147413&oldid=147412 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+7) 10 > 1733274680 609538 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07MIRROR14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147414&oldid=146172 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+47) 10/* Python */ < 1733274744 816515 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I'd love it if the OS handled all this somehow, so that there wouldn't have to be so many different ways to do regular-file streaming and log rotation < 1733274777 683608 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and the API for one-program-streaming-to-two is a mess; you can do it with, e.g., tee to a named pipe but it is unreasonably complicated < 1733274815 926803 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :back in university, I was working on a project that effectively needed named pipes, but I didn't realise they existed < 1733274825 293605 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so I ended up reimplementing them out of anonymous pipes and /dev/fd/ > 1733274887 62035 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07MIRROR14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147415&oldid=147414 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+49) 10/* Commands */ < 1733274907 381161 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: Linux leases are a great solution to the "multiple incompatible ways of locking a file" situation < 1733274940 512501 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in that the programs don't need to cooperate < 1733275003 656792 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I am still kind-of stuck on what a file actually *is*, conceptually – there's one view of it as a stream of bytes that might or might not be rewindable, but also a separate view in which you overwrite the bytes at specific offsets < 1733275020 967362 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and I haven't figured out a good way to define the behaviour of a file that takes both of those views into account < 1733275075 221166 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it reminds me of raw bytes in memory, in a way – there are lots of things you can do with them and you have to have some agreed meaning for them, and rules for changing them, for them to be at all useful < 1733275089 119605 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :with files, even if you know the file format, you still need to know the agreed rules for how the file can change before you can use it safely < 1733275111 474202 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement < 1733275176 18896 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :one consequence of all this is that Rust programs basically can't memory-map files without huge undefined behaviour, or really heavy use of unsafe code – you can't create a reference that points into a memory-mapped file without the risk that some other program violates the reference safety constraints < 1733275217 723489 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this is obviously the case for shared mappings, but it may also be the case for private mappings, if you map part of the file that isn't resident in memory and some other process writes to the file while you already have a reference into it < 1733275236 534363 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I am not sure whether it is possible for this particular UB to ever have any consequences, it seems hard for a compiler to exploit) < 1733275291 796623 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Doesn't Rust have a safe solution for that? It would merely mean excluding simultaneous access to the mmap. < 1733275334 863199 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :not as far as I know, I don't think mmaps are part of the core language, they just exist in third-party crates < 1733275379 883375 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and excluding simultaneous access to an mmap is hard because it's hard to prevent other processes accessing the same file, and the semantics for what happens when two processes access the same file and one is mmapping aren't defined very well < 1733275424 493682 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you could probably do it with a lease, but a lease breaks after 10 seconds, and Rust doesn't have any concept of "a reference that becomes invalid after 10 seconds" < 1733275453 783831 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I was hoping to see something safe in the crate `nix`, but I'm only seeing nix::sys::mman::mmap_anonymous, which returns an opaque FFI ref to the mmap. < 1733275557 637440 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(to clarify: a lease doesn't always break after 10 seconds, but it could – the kernel notifies you when you have 10 seconds of leasing left, and you're supposed to drop the lease much faster than that 10 seconds in order to avoid UB) < 1733275754 76688 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: It might be interesting to know how seL4 does mmaps: it doesn't! Or at least that's the rhetoric. A process only has access to mmaps which it is born with or granted via messages; it can't ask for more. < 1733275779 834109 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :So it's hard not to see UNIX's everything-is-file-shaped philosophy as part of the problem. < 1733275813 359507 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: that feels like an orthogonal problem < 1733275841 782735 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: if files have files inside them, you can just put files inside files to configure the files < 1733275842 893142 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if seL4 guaranteed that any maps the process was born with are always uncontended, that would solve the problem – I don't know whether it does that or not < 1733275851 527504 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :wanna set an icon? .icon.png, problem solved < 1733275876 990552 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :when everything is a fork, you don't need forks < 1733275886 99827 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :It means that it's up to the process tree's code to choose how to divide up its own memory. If it wants to set up two children that talk to each other, then it can do that; it can also isolate its children from one another. < 1733275939 46507 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: oh, I see – I was thinking about using mmaps to, say, read in a file that the user requested the program to read < 1733275952 839943 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Soni: Reminds me of Objective-Smalltalk's polymorphic storage identifiers, or whatever he calls them these days. An object is just a function with a lot of different methods; and similarly, a URL or filepath can have lots of different verbs upon it. < 1733275972 470417 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I am comfortable with that sort of request being given in capability form rather than as a filename, but that doesn't seem sufficient here < 1733275989 651460 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: don't get us started on URIs < 1733276026 301514 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: or do. we tried to have some fun with them not too long ago https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-soni-meta-uri-00.html < 1733276072 291059 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :(nobody actually cares about the issue we were trying to solve tho) < 1733276108 311710 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Think of a cap as a full-fledged actor-style object that can send and receive messages. There's no reason that a cap can't fulfill requests by giving the requestor access to an mmap with the assurance that it is immutable. < 1733276184 662955 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :solving issues is hard < 1733276192 944359 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :we'd rather cause problems < 1733276212 453875 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Soni: You didn't state the issue that you're trying to solve. < 1733276235 179318 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh < 1733276258 195073 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: in which context? < 1733276309 699661 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Soni: In the RFC. The issue, the applications being addressed, the future applications, those are missing. < 1733276424 456145 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :ahh yeah that's fair < 1733276438 530900 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs : ais523: Think of a cap as a full-fledged actor-style object that can send and receive messages. There's no reason that a cap can't fulfill requests by giving the requestor access to an mmap with the assurance that it is immutable. ← yes, that would work < 1733276442 163172 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :we're not sure we care enough to update it... < 1733276447 870297 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :ultimately it had to do with fediverse stuff < 1733276476 541325 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the assurance is the new/interesting part < 1733276479 36447 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :and the fact that you still can't "click to open in the app" a mastodon post < 1733276488 260576 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :but we're trying to move on from fedi stuff < 1733276502 988053 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's certainly possible for an object to contain one of those, but it would be new behaviour as far as capabilities go < 1733276530 899184 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :normally capabilities tell a program what they can do and provide a mechanism to do it, whereas this one is making a promise about what the rest of the system will do < 1733276557 566050 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think Genode has something like this in their Rust bindings. Genode is not really related to E or Monte or Joule, but like them it is *object-capability*: caps are refs to objects and objects behave like actors when they invoke each other asynchronously. < 1733276574 952731 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :But Genode's an OS on top of seL4. I keep meaning to try it out but get busy with other stuff. < 1733276760 221825 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :...Ah, no, the current Rust support does not appear to feature a Genode-specific API. It looks like it's a recent one-person passion project: https://genodians.org/atopia/ < 1733276950 433658 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :we'd still love to have a way to split metadata from the URI while still having a valid URI... < 1733277021 543665 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :an URI locates a resource but a resource can be ambiguous without extra out-of-band information < 1733277038 168122 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :how do you keep the information out-of-band while still putting it in an URI < 1733277071 397823 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :so we came up with meta-URIs, they're URIs plus out-of-band information, packaged in an URI-shaped format < 1733277114 582941 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :... anyway we digress < 1733277139 152384 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :so what do you think about causing problems with an unusual IO API that ditches the filesystem for making everything forks? < 1733277156 996005 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :(this is #esolangs after all, not #problemsolving) < 1733277314 29650 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I feel like forks are only useful if they are interpreted/understood by multiple programs (with the OS counting as a program for this purpose) > 1733277518 305695 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Estrita14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147416&oldid=147408 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+1204) 10page rewrite < 1733279163 64024 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :by forks, do you mean the feature when a regular file can have multiple streams of bytes in it, streams not limited to small sizes? < 1733280103 939945 :Everything!~Everythin@46-133-12-50.mobile.vf-ua.net QUIT :Quit: leaving > 1733281464 259763 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Combinational logic14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=147417 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+327) 10Created page with "How exactly is hello impure? It seems pure to me. --~~~~" < 1733281577 689412 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeesh, that page needs a large cleanup. Onto the pile it goes~ > 1733289193 891379 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme/unnamed collab with yayimhere and ractangle14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147418&oldid=147404 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+696) 10/* commands */ > 1733289218 21221 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme/unnamed collab with yayimhere and ractangle14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147419&oldid=147418 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+115) 10/* suggested names */ > 1733289316 895538 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Yayimhere14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147420&oldid=147201 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+132) 10/* things about me */ < 1733289973 361207 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :With my operating system ideas, the files don't have "files inside of them", although my idea did involve using certain forks to configure various things (including metadata). The forks numbered 0 to 65535 will have conventional meanings and higher numbered forks (they are 32-bit numbers) have no conventional meaning, so would normally be mentioned in other forks. < 1733290015 857893 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Also, it is not "everything is a file"; but, everything outside of a program is a capability, being like a actor model. < 1733290051 744275 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :A file consists of a set of numbered forks and each fork is a stream of bytes and/or links. < 1733290113 642194 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :My design does not have file names at all. < 1733290192 2301 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Actors and capabilities are also some stuff you had mentioned. However, there are some differences in how some systems are doing it, and I have some of my own ideas about it. I had considered using a single system call only, mainly in order to solve some issues with race conditions and atomic operations) < 1733290276 995144 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Another issue is referencing files by the command shell. I do have the idea about that as well. There are at least two ways (and they can be combined): A reference to a file (or any capability) can be selected with the mouse and copied into the command line, and/or you can specify queries to find a reference automatically and use that. > 1733290289 532780 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Yayimhere 5* 10moved [[02User:Tommyaweosme/unnamed collab with yayimhere and ractangle10]] to [[Tommyaweosme/emojic collab with yayimhere and ractangle]]: since the name is this then it makes sense to move it. also if ractangle or tommy wants to move it back then yea > 1733290344 568265 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Match14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147423&oldid=142712 5* 03Japi 5* (-1) 10 > 1733290486 891252 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:5anz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147424&oldid=147394 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+276) 10/* esolang? */ < 1733290596 706862 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I had seen one design that uses "everything is URI" but I think that isn't very good either. > 1733290747 318698 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Savage Operator14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147425&oldid=140139 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+160) 10 < 1733290751 273961 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I had recently seen some stuff relating to Pony programming language (including that division by zero results in zero; uxn also does this), but also it uses capabilities, although within one program instead of for the entire system. (I think capability systems are more useful when they are what the system uses instead of what a program uses) > 1733290772 187575 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Unlambda14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147426&oldid=93334 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+22) 10/* See also */ < 1733290932 892300 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Pony has six kind of reference capabilities; I had not considered that, although it might be useful if you want to support shared memory. However, I am not sure that I should have shared memory, since it might have some other problems, with security and with network transparency, maybe. < 1733291126 80132 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Another security feature would be that the operating system should disallow some instructions from working such as RDTSC, and should emulate CPUID instead of allowing it to work directly. > 1733291252 964205 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Braintrust14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147427&oldid=139230 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+134) 10why is that here anyway? but umm to make that work with the self interpreter i plugged in braintrust for L < 1733293209 377156 :Guest87!~Guest87@2a09:bac1:72e0:18::150:88 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Guest87 < 1733293492 731323 :Guest87!~Guest87@2a09:bac1:72e0:18::150:88 QUIT :Client Quit < 1733293501 368015 :Guest87!~Guest87@2a09:bac5:58c2:d2d::150:88 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] Guest87 < 1733293508 281084 :Guest87!~Guest87@2a09:bac5:58c2:d2d::150:88 QUIT :Client Quit < 1733293547 212722 :zenmov!~zenmov@user/zenmov JOIN #esolangs zenmov :zenmov < 1733296343 243436 :Hooloovoo!~Hooloovoo@hax0rbana.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1733296520 425112 :Hooloovoo!~Hooloovoo@hax0rbana.org JOIN #esolangs hooloovoo :Hooloovoo < 1733297317 941541 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: x86 can trap on rdtsc so an OS can emulate it if it wants to < 1733297358 831093 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(it's unclear whether you know that) > 1733297513 131747 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move_redir10 02 5* 03Ais523 5* 10moved [[02Tommyaweosme/emojic collab with yayimhere and ractangle10]] to [[User:Tommyaweosme/unnamed collab with yayimhere and ractangle]] over redirect: Revert was accidentally moved to the wrong namespace, I will redo the move to the correct namespace > 1733297513 152365 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 delete_redir10 02 5* 03Ais523 5* 10Ais523 deleted redirect [[02User:Tommyaweosme/unnamed collab with yayimhere and ractangle10]] by overwriting: Deleted to make way for move from "[[Tommyaweosme/emojic collab with yayimhere and ractangle]]" < 1733297592 287912 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(But that's not true for cpuid, which seems a bit strange. I believe you can override some of the cpuid information though? Not sure, it's a hugely complex instruction, and I'm not reading the whole description rn :-P) > 1733297598 368295 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Ais523 5* 10moved [[02User:Tommyaweosme/unnamed collab with yayimhere and ractangle10]] to [[User:Tommyaweosme/Emojic collab with yayimhere and ractangle]]: repeat [[User:Yayimhere]]'s move, except keep the page in the user namespace < 1733297621 446046 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: IIRC RDRAND also can't be overridden, despite being nondeterministic < 1733297661 927633 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: https://www.felixcloutier.com/x86/rdrand agrees < 1733297675 513746 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ring -1 can trap cpuid, IIRC. Or maybe it was Ring -2? Somewhere in the SMM. < 1733297694 223220 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :But it's not just a hardcoded readout of branding and stepping info. < 1733297712 514845 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :CPUID's interface is… weird < 1733297729 800210 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's intel's version of ioctl < 1733297743 622744 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(not really but it's equally diverse) < 1733297748 62249 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can query it for the maximum supported CPUID leaf; accessing high leaves is UB, accessing lower leaves is not UB but they might not be implemented, in which case they return all-zeroes < 1733297773 623115 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this seems… strictly worse than returning all-zeroes for unimplemented leaves regardless of whether they're higher or lower than the maximum supported leaf? < 1733297792 822846 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :* accessing higher leaves is UB < 1733297807 976350 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: yes, there are some bits in cpuid that tells to user programs not only that the CPU hardware supports a feature but that the the OS also supports that feature, and the OS needs to enable those, for two reasons: one is that when the CPU introduces new registers, the OS needs to be able to save those when switching between processes, the other is live migration of virtual machines between hosts < 1733297813 974962 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :with different CPUs < 1733297923 296342 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Anyway I don't see a good reason why cpuid can't be trapped. It's a rarely used instruction, no doubt microcoded so already slow... < 1733297961 853419 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :with rdrand you can argue that it's supposed to be fast (not that a check of a control register bit should be that expensive) < 1733297976 572977 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(do we have timings for rdrand, hmm) < 1733298083 506305 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The name suggests that the hardware has a `rand` pseudo-register that perhaps reads from some genuine entropy source on-die. > 1733298087 367397 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07DJN OISC14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147431&oldid=120399 5* 03Iddi01 5* (+131) 10[[Redcode|can't believe that this page doesn't have a link to the origin of the instruction which is t h e. u l t i m a t e. p r o g r a m m i n g. g a m e.]] < 1733298108 813228 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's slow. https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10484164/what-is-the-latency-and-throughput-of-the-rdrand-instruction-on-ivy-bridge has some random cycle numbers < 1733298174 468123 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :though it's unclear whether it's still slow if you use it sparingly... though hmm, if that's your use case then it's not worth optimizing because it won't be a bottleneck < 1733298253 891132 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :This DRNG idea is fun. Gotta make sure that the entropy is spread evenly across all cores. I suppose that this would make sense if the on-die entropy requires a lot of dedicated space or has an analog circuit. < 1733298409 309554 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Anyway, I see no good reason why this shouldn't be trappable for the same reason(s) that rdtsc is. Maybe they're worried about running out of control register bits :P > 1733298433 677087 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147432&oldid=147153 5* 03Zaikawo 5* (+249) 10introducing myself < 1733298549 462513 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(It'll mess with reverse debugging which is sad. Yes, you can single-step code for that purpose, but that's still sad :-) ) < 1733298685 383419 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh we're working around this issue in software? :-) https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/17112 < 1733298708 365396 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(that's not a happy smiley) < 1733298938 821562 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the technique of using CPUID trapping to claim RDRAND isn't supported is clever, and will likely work in practice, but is wrong in theory :-) < 1733298966 61572 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well not just vms really, it could be migration of a process with OS support, or one of those CPUs that have two different types of cores in the same housing, as in power-saving and high-performance, and they support different instruction sets < 1733299023 971036 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit > 1733299284 458329 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Saturncorgi 5* 10New user account > 1733299812 57284 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Featured languages/Candidates14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147433&oldid=145031 5* 03Iddi01 5* (+1427) 10/* List of candidates */ [[Redcode|Changed proposal to t h e. u l t i m a t e. p r o g r a m m i n g. g a m e.]] < 1733299995 464087 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User > 1733301008 561207 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Luminol14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=147434 5* 03Zaikawo 5* (+3538) 10this is an esolang i created ! < 1733301514 228621 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… > 1733302109 218352 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Froginstarch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147435&oldid=143766 5* 03Froginstarch 5* (+54) 10 > 1733302194 161100 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Froginstarch14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147436&oldid=147435 5* 03Froginstarch 5* (+120) 10 > 1733302399 433528 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07STRTRAN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147437&oldid=146877 5* 03Froginstarch 5* (+136) 10/*Example section is in, now we wait... :/ */ > 1733302580 433634 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07STRTRAN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147438&oldid=147437 5* 03Froginstarch 5* (+154) 10 > 1733302636 919212 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07STRTRAN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147439&oldid=147438 5* 03Froginstarch 5* (+26) 10 < 1733302650 350811 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas < 1733302652 451776 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User > 1733302682 131140 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07STRTRAN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147440&oldid=147439 5* 03Froginstarch 5* (+3) 10 < 1733302690 78754 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: on one hand, yes, it sounds like the cpu developers could easily have made RDRAND trappable. on the other hand, > 1733302705 44525 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07STRTRAN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147441&oldid=147440 5* 03Froginstarch 5* (+4) 10 > 1733302745 355805 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07STRTRAN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147442&oldid=147441 5* 03Froginstarch 5* (+27) 10 < 1733302756 571838 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe there are like ten other more subtle reasons why it's impossible to make modern x86 deterministic for a non-cooperating (untrusted) userspace process without very costly emulation, and the cpu developers chose to make rdrand not trappable to make that fact more obvious. > 1733303786 6481 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Redcode14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147443&oldid=146739 5* 03Iddi01 5* (+1991) 10Second update to the article > 1733307644 362017 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03WoodyFan3412 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:TileDots file.png10]]" > 1733308063 574470 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03WoodyFan3412 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:TileDots comparison.png10]]" > 1733308144 532056 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07TileDots14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147446&oldid=147253 5* 03WoodyFan3412 5* (+345) 10Added missing info and file format. > 1733310885 181682 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Bor014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147447&oldid=96407 5* 03Bor0 5* (-9) 10 < 1733310926 105459 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1733310943 156277 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Wasaya14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147448&oldid=147374 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+161) 10 < 1733311058 909854 :fria!uid151648@id-151648.ilkley.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs fria :fria < 1733311174 957414 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn JOIN #esolangs toonn :Unknown < 1733311218 342652 :fria!uid151648@id-151648.ilkley.irccloud.com QUIT :Client Quit > 1733311307 344828 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Tommyaweosme14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147449&oldid=147388 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+1064) 10 < 1733311316 162030 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1733311448 588901 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :*.net *.split > 1733311488 986734 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ractangle14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147450&oldid=147385 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+159) 10/* Wasaya */ new section < 1733311536 133234 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Not really looking forward for doing today in Burlesque, it's terrible for anything iterative, or 2D-arrayish. < 1733311543 948588 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :If it wasn't for the diagonals I'd use the string builtins to search for "XMAS" in the original, reversed, transposed and reversed-and-transposed lines, but I don't think it has anything for diagonals. > 1733312230 379447 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147451&oldid=147194 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+221) 10 > 1733312382 840660 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147452&oldid=147451 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+15) 10 > 1733312475 425714 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Free Esolang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147453&oldid=145577 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+9) 10 > 1733312964 721655 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:EchoLang (None1)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147454&oldid=146970 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+102) 10 > 1733313201 145668 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147455&oldid=147111 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+493) 10/* I've thinked about a CA with civilization. */ new section > 1733313783 873991 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Wasaya14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147456&oldid=147236 5* 03ZCX islptng 5* (+745) 10/* This seems like a hybrid of Lua and Python */ new section < 1733313834 480237 :mtm!~textual@47.202.75.129 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds > 1733313921 481255 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Wasaya14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147457&oldid=147456 5* 03ZCX islptng 5* (+86) 10 < 1733313957 471810 :mtm!~textual@47.202.75.129 JOIN #esolangs mtm :Textual User > 1733314171 90330 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Wasaya14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147458&oldid=147457 5* 03ZCX islptng 5* (-5) 10/* This seems like a hybrid of Lua and Python */ > 1733314269 226716 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Wasaya14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147459&oldid=147458 5* 03ZCX islptng 5* (+75) 10/* This seems like a hybrid of Lua and Python */ < 1733314339 906574 :earend1!uid657395@user/utoneq JOIN #esolangs zut :zut > 1733314485 483965 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Wasaya/Libraries14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147460&oldid=147190 5* 03ZCX islptng 5* (+175) 10 > 1733314523 321233 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Wasaya/Libraries14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147461&oldid=147460 5* 03ZCX islptng 5* (+17) 10/* Self-interpreter Library */ > 1733316992 260138 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Wasaya14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147462&oldid=147459 5* 03ZCX islptng 5* (-116) 10 < 1733317159 500454 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo JOIN #esolangs craigo :realname > 1733317298 36741 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Wasaya14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147463&oldid=147448 5* 03ZCX islptng 5* (+2) 10 > 1733317419 931833 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Wasaya14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147464&oldid=147463 5* 03ZCX islptng 5* (+5) 10 > 1733317627 121622 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Wasaya14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147465&oldid=147462 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+723) 10 > 1733317695 138712 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Wasaya14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147466&oldid=147465 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+22) 10 < 1733318890 527782 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs amby :realname < 1733319663 184456 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas < 1733320006 410067 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse > 1733321821 826476 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03SpectCOW 5* 10New user account > 1733321851 513011 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Savage Operator14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147467&oldid=147425 5* 03Yayimhere 5* (+44) 10/* Turing-completeness */ > 1733322017 289818 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Wasaya14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147468&oldid=147464 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+110) 10 < 1733322648 410555 :earend1!uid657395@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs :--> cx.cartesian < 1733322668 756727 :m0ther!~utoneq@user/utoneq JOIN #esolangs zut :utoneq < 1733322675 779104 :earend1!uid657395@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs :--> cx.cartesian < 1733322676 678815 :m0ther!~utoneq@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs :earend1: 15(...N) => N.reduce((A, B) => [].concat.apply([], A.map(a => B.map(b => [a, b])))).map(n => [].concat.apply([], n))/* var ABC=["A","B","C"], DEC=[1,2,3]; zip(ABC,DEC); // [['A',1],['A',2],['A',3],['B',1],['B',2],['B',3],['C',1],['C',2],['C',3]] */  < 1733322698 809518 :earend1!uid657395@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs :--> var ABC=["A","B","C"], DEC=[1,2,3]; zip(ABC,DEC); < 1733322699 599133 :m0ther!~utoneq@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs :earend1: 15[ [ 'A', 1 ], [ 'B', 2 ], [ 'C', 3 ] ]  < 1733322726 621365 :earend1!uid657395@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs :--> var ABC=["A","B","C"], DEC=[1,2,3]; cx.cartesian(ABC,DEC); < 1733322727 439696 :m0ther!~utoneq@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs :earend1: 15[ [ 'A', 1 ], [ 'A', 2 ], [ 'A', 3 ], [ 'B', 1 ], [ 'B', 2 ], [ 'B', 3 ], [ 'C', 1 ], [ 'C', 2 ], [ 'C', 3 ] ]  > 1733324441 780869 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Sirc14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=147469 5* 03Baldibacak 5* (+1354) 10Created page with "== Sirc == Sirc is an esolang based on a single-register CPU. Programs in Sirc operate by being loaded into RAM, as the architecture does not allow immediate values. The language is designed to be minimalistic and challenging to use. === Architecture === * The CPU ha > 1733324531 958332 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Sirc14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147470&oldid=147469 5* 03Baldibacak 5* (-104) 10 > 1733324604 116356 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Sirc14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147471&oldid=147470 5* 03Baldibacak 5* (+82) 10 > 1733324655 884111 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Sirc14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147472&oldid=147471 5* 03Baldibacak 5* (+65) 10forgot to add jmp instruction > 1733324670 215265 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Sirc14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147473&oldid=147472 5* 03Baldibacak 5* (+0) 10and made a typo < 1733324707 641536 :baldibacak!~baldibaca@151.250.2.76 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] baldibacak < 1733324714 976010 :baldibacak!~baldibaca@151.250.2.76 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well hello < 1733325436 950351 :baldibacak!~baldibaca@151.250.2.76 QUIT :Quit: Client closed > 1733326876 399594 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Ractangle14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147474&oldid=147450 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-159) 10no > 1733327088 279397 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Community portal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147475&oldid=145304 5* 03B jonas 5* (+12) 10/* IRC */ > 1733327138 481989 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Estrita14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147476&oldid=147416 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+394) 10minor change < 1733327145 630247 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :m0ther: greet < 1733327160 409383 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs ::: greet > 1733327164 988524 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Tommyaweosme14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147477&oldid=147449 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+242) 10/* collab? */ < 1733327170 523199 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :::greet < 1733327172 190849 :m0ther!~utoneq@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: 15hello world  < 1733327420 998083 :FreeFull!~freefull@46.205.204.170.nat.ftth.dynamic.t-mobile.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1733327766 935075 :m0ther!~utoneq@user/utoneq QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds > 1733327903 935903 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147478&oldid=147455 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+90) 10PrySigneToFry forgot to sign, adding default signature < 1733328420 686698 :earend1!uid657395@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs :::learn chr s=>[...s].map(c=>c.codePointAt(0)).join(" ") < 1733328448 720103 :m0ther!~utoneq@user/utoneq JOIN #esolangs zut :utoneq < 1733328453 428323 :earend1!uid657395@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs :::learn chr s=>[...s].map(c=>c.codePointAt(0)).join(" ") < 1733328473 241023 :earend1!uid657395@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs :::chr A < 1733328524 971512 :earend1!uid657395@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs :m0ther: cx.chr=s=>[...s].map(c=>c.codePointAt(0)).join(" ") < 1733328553 605005 :earend1!uid657395@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs :m0ther: 2+3 < 1733328559 391984 :earend1!uid657395@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs :--> 2+3 < 1733328611 54033 :m0ther!~utoneq@user/utoneq QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1733328641 780809 :m0ther!~utoneq@user/utoneq JOIN #esolangs zut :utoneq < 1733328679 286224 :earend1!uid657395@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs :::learn chr s=>[...s].map(c=>c.codePointAt(0)).join(" ") < 1733328680 134850 :m0ther!~utoneq@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs :earend1: 15learned new command: chr  < 1733328685 423461 :earend1!uid657395@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs :::chr A < 1733328686 530405 :m0ther!~utoneq@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs :earend1: 1565  > 1733328690 305058 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Luminol14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147479&oldid=147434 5* 03Zaikawo 5* (+1648) 10made the page make more sense :thumbsup: < 1733328769 613854 :earend1!uid657395@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs :has cx.fetch .. so you can code a tiny webservice with resources you have (like free on runkit) and bind it with a one liner likee that. was the idea < 1733328778 984290 :earend1!uid657395@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs :m0ther: cx < 1733328812 72242 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :::help < 1733328813 640725 :m0ther!~utoneq@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: 15  < 1733328866 859586 :earend1!uid657395@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs :unfortunately that version isnt up to date. its an rescued older workspace. > 1733328896 138522 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Zaikawo14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=147480 5* 03Zaikawo 5* (+260) 10woah < 1733328911 733219 :earend1!uid657395@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs :some features like gist pastes doesnt work now.. have to update API credentials < 1733328939 573641 :earend1!uid657395@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs : ::learn name s=>blah+s < 1733328979 750978 :earend1!uid657395@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs :just a lambda taking a single param s. whjich is everything followed after command name < 1733329057 21682 :earend1!uid657395@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs :usually it would use pastes for commands with longer outout automatically .. (which for now doesnt work.. so you get just an error or nothing at all) < 1733329068 955313 :earend1!uid657395@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs :(API keys)_ < 1733329213 284604 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: You're not wrong... anything with shared memory (say a user-space spin lock) is going to be nondeterministic. `rr` basically disables threads (only one runs at any given time). < 1733329269 856661 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: so what makes rdrand annoiying is that it's non-deterministic even in an isolated single threaded context < 1733329274 620266 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION shrugs
> 1733329492 640870 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Luminol14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147481&oldid=147479 5* 03Zaikawo 5* (+18) 10clarified what values are > 1733329831 872394 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Luminol14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147482&oldid=147481 5* 03Zaikawo 5* (+155) 10added categories > 1733330156 787079 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Luminol14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147483&oldid=147482 5* 03Zaikawo 5* (-1) 10fixed typo in builtins < 1733330214 12595 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1733330373 247716 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas < 1733330409 99883 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: yes, that's one of the largest problems, but I think even if you restrict multithreading there are other difficulties < 1733330421 904217 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh sure. < 1733330550 379916 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Most obviously you can share memory between processes, so it's not just threads. < 1733331297 46457 :m0ther!~utoneq@user/utoneq QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1733332320 668097 :Everything!~Everythin@94.153.24.195 JOIN #esolangs Everything :Everything < 1733333419 6708 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1733333494 938787 :earend1!uid657395@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs :divide and conquer < 1733333500 651883 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1733333568 25997 :earend1!uid657395@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs :js concurrency and event-loop fast io is awesome to delegate work around the world so to say < 1733333598 902063 :earend1!uid657395@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs :surely trivial remark < 1733333668 610423 :earend1!uid657395@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs :i love how i will never understand talk in this channel < 1733333723 447476 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :No worries. I don't understand anything either. < 1733333802 685099 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :. o O ( When you understand everything, you get a Bachelor's. When you understand nothing, you get a Master's. And when you realize that nobody else understands anything either, you get a PhD ) < 1733333821 284278 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(This is a joke. Also true. But a joke. :) ) < 1733333842 381870 :earend1!uid657395@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs :concurrency vs true parallel .. or more like synthese: web 1.0 < 1733333894 365517 :earend1!uid657395@user/utoneq PRIVMSG #esolangs :wer nichts wird wird wirt, und wer das nicht schafft wird betriebswirt. < 1733333900 304561 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :. o O ( all web development leads to eventual inconsistency ) < 1733333955 684543 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I have a web developer living in my back yard. She builds an entire web every night! If only I were so productive. But I'd have to eat flies. < 1733334152 641599 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] wWwwW < 1733334246 837114 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hi!! < 1733334271 435704 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i have news that prop nobody will care about: im learning prolog < 1733334278 793459 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :should i use it to make compilers? < 1733334284 197755 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it seems like it would make sense but < 1733334388 24640 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1733334536 588984 :Everything!~Everythin@94.153.24.195 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1733334714 726715 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Fun! You certainly can use it to make a compiler. Prolog was originally intended for parsing, but it can also be used for code transformation and emission. < 1733334733 178381 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also yes this is cuz you reccomended minikanren < 1733334781 718486 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also my reasoning is thta if you define the rules of the language makes the problem the actual program then you wouldnt need to do all the inbetween stuff? maybe idk lol < 1733334905 549807 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sure. miniKanren is nice for expressing very pure relations that need to always be reversible. Prolog is better for practical work; it allows the user to tell the runtime to not explore certain possibilities, or to evaluate things in a fairly specific order. < 1733334926 918463 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :thats also usefull < 1733334944 487245 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :i have found out im a declarative fan < 1733334947 992616 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :And yes, lots of parts of Prolog are effectively the user giving the runtime like three lines of code, and the runtime expanding that to hundreds of lines of equivalent low-level C. The same thing happens with SQL and database engines. < 1733334961 292103 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :nice < 1733335296 940155 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Have you seen lists and append yet? I think it's something like: append([], X, X). append([X|Xs], Z, [X|Ys]) :- append(Xs, Z, Ys). < 1733335325 901524 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :no i have not < 1733335327 689363 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and now < 1733335334 421402 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :im horrorfied < 1733335334 660476 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :[] and [|] are syntax for nil/0 and cons/2, so this is just: append(nil, X, X). append(cons(X, Xs), Z, cons(X, Ys)) :- append(Xs, Z, Ys). < 1733335437 695430 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Well, it's merely two logical statements: `for all X, [] ++ X == X` and `for all X, Y, Z, x, if X ++ Z == Y then cons(x, X) ++ Z == cons(x, Y)`. Two properties of lists. < 1733335456 37776 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :k < 1733335502 248508 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :But also, because a list is always either a nil/0 or cons/2, this means that append/3 can always pattern-match its first argument. This is a crucial insight in Prolog, because it means that (some) runtimes figure out that append/3 is actually a function. < 1733335543 426300 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :lol < 1733335545 322962 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :There's kind of two ways to write Prolog. You can write relations and let the runtime search for the answer, or you can write functions and let the runtime evaluate them like traditional programming. < 1733335589 268490 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Languages like Mercury, Curry, Mozart/Oz, etc. are all built around that idea of relations and functions as two different things that work together. < 1733335603 553363 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :k < 1733335617 335900 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wWwwW: Would you like to be more horrified or would you like to see something practical? < 1733335633 631342 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :while i learn more different langs ill be making an actual language on the side as i go along and get inspired < 1733335639 882783 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: hmmmmmmm good quesiton < 1733335643 273298 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*question < 1733335726 288193 :wWwwW!~wWwwW@94.147.203.75 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also bye < 1733335733 121097 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1733335759 513615 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1733335794 233676 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1733337132 25886 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1733338418 915330 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname < 1733338864 425002 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: I think the constructor for list nodes isn't actually called cons, it's called . < 1733338902 111019 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: Probably. I don't remember all the fun syntax. I remember that ,/2 is a constructor. < 1733338944 515178 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, but that's a different one < 1733339012 980279 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Got it. Still confused, but that's okay. < 1733339040 779827 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :though I do call it cons in https://esolangs.org/wiki/Olvashat%C3%B3 < 1733339442 445996 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1733339598 206632 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs * :realname < 1733341920 304250 :earend1!uid657395@user/utoneq QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1733344408 990348 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme/Emojic collab with yayimhere and ractangle14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147484&oldid=147429 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+4) 10/* commands */ > 1733344654 714184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme/Emojic collab with yayimhere and ractangle14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147485&oldid=147484 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+153) 10 > 1733344825 860271 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme/Emojic collab with yayimhere and ractangle14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147486&oldid=147485 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-2) 10/* commands */ < 1733344832 204611 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :If x86 cannot be made fully deterministic, can RISC-V be, and what other instruction sets do? > 1733345012 383697 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme/Emojic collab with yayimhere and ractangle14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147487&oldid=147486 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+8) 10 > 1733345324 54691 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07PAPER14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147488&oldid=147331 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+113) 10Categories > 1733345372 259692 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme/Emojic collab with yayimhere and ractangle14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147489&oldid=147487 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+16) 10 > 1733345392 563560 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme/Emojic collab with yayimhere and ractangle14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147490&oldid=147489 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+1) 10 > 1733345461 814446 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07WHAT14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147491&oldid=147383 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+97) 10Categories > 1733345485 929828 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Suprinister 5* 10New user account > 1733345739 564860 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147492&oldid=147432 5* 03Suprinister 5* (+444) 10 > 1733345949 964476 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Nile14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147493&oldid=147407 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+136) 10Infobox, categories > 1733346127 841052 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Quantum Nothing14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147494&oldid=147410 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+200) 10Link, categories > 1733346189 284836 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07PAPER14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147495&oldid=147488 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+30) 10Category > 1733346242 489629 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 overwrite10 02 5* 03Dtp09 5* 10uploaded a new version of "[[02File:Truth-machine-tile.png10]]": program compressed by two tiles horizontally > 1733346310 436807 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Tile14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147497&oldid=133963 5* 03Dtp09 5* (-16) 10/* Truth Machine */ compresseed program by two tiles horizontally > 1733346844 899977 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Sirc14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147498&oldid=147473 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+41) 10Categories > 1733346968 80427 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Luminol14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147499&oldid=147483 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+85) 10Infobox, categories < 1733346972 429112 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1733347333 156768 :m0ther!~utoneq@user/utoneq JOIN #esolangs zut :utoneq < 1733347359 436694 :earend1!uid657395@user/utoneq JOIN #esolangs zut :zut < 1733349216 478826 :__monty__!~toonn@user/toonn QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1733349261 430432 :m0ther!~utoneq@user/utoneq QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1733349348 849341 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca JOIN #esolangs zzo38 :zzo38 < 1733350336 182527 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1733350397 461349 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I look and maybe it is possible to disable RDRAND with hypervisors < 1733350644 830702 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User > 1733351674 675467 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:5anz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147500&oldid=147424 5* 035anz 5* (+359) 10/* esolang? */ > 1733351696 332392 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:5anz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147501&oldid=147500 5* 035anz 5* (+0) 10/* esolang? */ > 1733353286 326583 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:EchoLang (None1)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147502&oldid=147454 5* 03None1 5* (+274) 10 < 1733353529 205142 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… > 1733354591 43189 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:HQ9+14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147503&oldid=90218 5* 035anz 5* (+261) 10