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00:25:09 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147504&oldid=73807 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+31)
00:25:27 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147505&oldid=146039 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+31)
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00:36:50 <esolangs> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147506&oldid=147504 * Aadenboy * (+4) additional distinction
00:37:03 <esolangs> [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147507&oldid=147505 * Aadenboy * (+4) additional distinction
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01:39:31 <esolangs> [[User talk:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147508&oldid=147336 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+14) /* random stuff */
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01:39:52 <esolangs> [[User talk:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147509&oldid=147508 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+17)
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03:34:54 <esolangs> [[Talk:Addit]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=147510 * TheBigH * (+240) Created page
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05:11:34 <esolangs> [[Treadnil]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147511&oldid=147163 * BoundedBeans * (+4) Correct instance of "instruction" to "half instruction"
05:12:21 <esolangs> [[Treadnil]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147512&oldid=147511 * BoundedBeans * (+4) missed a spot
06:14:40 <esolangs> [[User:BoundedBeans/Programs]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=147513 * BoundedBeans * (+29936) Created page with "==2-Player Tic-Tac-Toe in C-INTERCAL== ===How to use=== The game will display the board, then whose turn it is. Enter the X coordinate, followed by the Y coordinate (ONE, TWO, or THREE for each). If those coordinates have already been played, yo
06:15:46 <esolangs> [[User:BoundedBeans/INTERCAL Tic-Tac-Toe]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147514&oldid=115633 * BoundedBeans * (-12877) Replaced content with "Moved to [[User:BoundedBeans/Programs]]"
06:16:12 <esolangs> [[User:BoundedBeans/C Sharp HBCHT Polyglot]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147515&oldid=112127 * BoundedBeans * (-6190) Replaced content with "Moved to [[User:BoundedBeans/Programs]]"
06:16:42 <esolangs> [[User:BoundedBeans/??? Mystery Program]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147516&oldid=110771 * BoundedBeans * (-5004) Replaced content with "Moved to [[User:BoundedBeans/Programs]]"
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07:42:16 <esolangs> [[User talk:5anz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147517&oldid=147501 * Yayimhere * (+52) /* esolang? */
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08:11:55 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme/Emojic collab with yayimhere and ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147518&oldid=147490 * Yayimhere * (+353) /* commands */
08:13:04 <wWwwW> i have some questions about syntax for the lang im making so i wanted to know: whats some of the most readable and fast to parse syntaxes for oneline functions?
08:14:17 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme/Emojic collab with yayimhere and ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147519&oldid=147518 * Ractangle * (+1)
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08:14:45 <int-e> . o O ( fast to parse or easy to parse? )
08:18:39 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147520&oldid=147119 * Ractangle * (+5)
08:19:54 <esolangs> [[true]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147521&oldid=146371 * Ractangle * (+77) /* Implementations */
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08:50:35 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Craps * New user account
08:51:20 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147522&oldid=147492 * Craps * (+129) ?!
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09:02:18 <esolangs> [[User talk:5anz]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147523&oldid=147517 * 5anz * (+71) /* esolang? */
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09:50:43 <esolangs> [[Corewars]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=147524 * Iddi01 * (+21) [[Redcode|More redirects for common names of t h e. u l t i m a t e. p r o g r a m m i n g. g a m e.]]
09:52:24 <esolangs> [[Corewar]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=147525 * Iddi01 * (+21) [[Redcode|More redirects for common names of t h e. u l t i m a t e. p r o g r a m m i n g. g a m e.]]
10:02:42 <esolangs> [[BF Joust]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147526&oldid=144123 * Iddi01 * (+147) [[Redcode|The "current thoughts are" has been there for >10 years and is already implemented by zemhill. Also, more visible link to t h e. u l t i m a t e. p r o g r a m m i n g. g a m e.]]
10:10:04 <esolangs> [[Zemhill]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147527&oldid=143018 * Iddi01 * (+0) [[Redcode|Better redirect target for people browsing the community portal]]
10:17:54 <esolangs> [[Talk:LOLCODE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147528&oldid=127201 * Gggfr * (+220) /* It is not enough to programming. */
10:21:34 <esolangs> [[Talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147529&oldid=107750 * Gggfr * (+91)
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11:31:15 <esolangs> [[User:Translated ORK/Translated ORK PSTF XXVII]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=147530 * PrySigneToFry * (+3838) Created page with "User:Translated ORK/Translated ORK Mihai26|<span style='color:crimson;font-family:Unifont;'>ru?H?H+?u.L? ?L? H?( H? E3? 3?0?3?0H??QFy#?AV7[PF??`A?!I?m?-~|??}y..."
11:32:47 <esolangs> [[User:Translated ORK/Translated ORK PSTF XXVII]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147531&oldid=147530 * PrySigneToFry * (+22)
11:33:14 <esolangs> [[User:Translated ORK/Translated ORK Mihai26]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147532&oldid=146981 * PrySigneToFry * (+72)
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11:56:16 <esolangs> [[Talk:LOLCODE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147533&oldid=147528 * PrySigneToFry * (+662)
11:56:49 <esolangs> [[Talk:LOLCODE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147534&oldid=147533 * PrySigneToFry * (+46)
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12:21:09 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme/Emojic collab with yayimhere and ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147535&oldid=147519 * Yayimhere * (+1) /* commands */
12:26:14 <esolangs> [[TileDots]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147536&oldid=147446 * WoodyFan3412 * (-132) Updated to the current version of TileDots
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12:41:28 <esolangs> [[RECT4n=GLE]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147537&oldid=144891 * Yayimhere * (+650)
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13:45:42 <esolangs> [[BF Joust]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147538&oldid=147526 * Ais523 * (-80) /* See also */ rm a) excessive advertising in see also link, b) a duplicate link
13:46:05 <esolangs> [[Core Wars]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=147539 * Ais523 * (+21) spelling redirect, with double redirect straightened
13:47:10 <esolangs> [[BF Joust]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147540&oldid=147538 * Ais523 * (-1) /* See also */ usually spelled without the s
13:48:04 <esolangs> [[User talk:Iddi01]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147541&oldid=145481 * Ais523 * (+139) please stop spamming
13:49:03 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[BrainfUck]]": double redirect apparently intentionally created to lead to an interstitial page, and not a name that is commonly used for the redirect target
13:49:16 <esolangs> [[BF joust]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147542&oldid=146738 * Ais523 * (-707) rm spam
13:51:18 <esolangs> [[Zemhill]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147543&oldid=147527 * Ais523 * (+0) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/147527|147527]] by [[Special:Contributions/Iddi01|Iddi01]] ([[User talk:Iddi01|talk]]) straighten double redirect (that was apparently intentionally introduced to show advertising/spam)
13:51:59 <esolangs> [[Redcode]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147544&oldid=147443 * Ais523 * (+0) /* See also */ link to correctly capitalised language name
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14:37:40 <esolangs> [[Desrever]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=147545 * Fazaazafg * (+1311) Created page with "{{WIP}} Desrever is an esoteric programming language created by [[User:Fazaazafg]]. Its syntax is structured like most typical programming languages, but backwards. Here is a [[Hello, world!]] program in Desrever. <pre> { ;("Hello, world!")print } ()main func </pre
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17:15:17 <korvo> wWwwW: All of the popular syntax you've seen is popular partially because it is easy to read and parse. The other main influence is keyboard layout.
17:15:41 <wWwwW> korvo: which one is your favorite?
17:26:12 <korvo> wWwwW: I hate syntax.
17:26:39 <korvo> My hands are tired and it is not pleasant to use a keyboard.
17:27:06 <wWwwW> i find it pleseant
17:27:22 <wWwwW> but also im missing all normal human excistence
17:32:28 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * ERR0R.heheheha * New user account
17:36:14 <korvo> wWwwW: Lately I've been using S-expressions. They're easy to parse, can be transformed into other tree-like common syntax like JSON or XML, and have very simple tree homomorphisms.
17:59:35 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Tomrs123 2 * New user account
18:03:02 <esolangs> [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147546&oldid=147522 * Tomrs123 2 * (+225)
18:05:24 <esolangs> [[Befunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147547&oldid=146956 * Tomrs123 2 * (+1406) /* 99 Bottles of Beer */
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18:10:31 <esolangs> [[Befunge]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147548&oldid=147547 * Tomrs123 2 * (+0) oops.
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18:13:06 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy/Bincot draft]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=147549 * Aadenboy * (+1149) draft
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18:51:54 <zzo38> Something that I had sometimes been using lately is DER
18:55:07 <zzo38> I think JSON and XML have some problems, although they might be suitable for some purposes.
18:55:28 <zzo38> (PostScript notation is another possibility; it also has key/value lists, string, integer, boolean, arrays, and also comments)
18:56:45 <korvo> They're both useful because other tools consume them, mostly. I don't really prefer XML but it arises when working in the Java ecosystem. JSON has the formidable `jq` language nearby, can be viewed in a Web browser, is durable over ASCII transport, and is human-readable with a pretty-printer; it's not a bad linguafranca.
18:58:15 <korvo> I can't overstate how nice jq is. For some reason, I have real trouble remembering it when I'm not writing lots of it; but other than that it's great. It's powerful enough to self-interpret too.
18:58:36 <zzo38> JSON doesn't have comments, optional trailing commas, non-Unicode text, binary data, requires keys to be text, and although you can allegedly write any numbers, JavaScript will be limited to 64-bit floating-point.
18:58:49 <korvo> (This is likely more of my E bias; JSON started as Data-E, a subset of E describing plain data.)
18:58:50 <zzo38> Some of these things are not needed for a binary-based format, but would be helpful in text-based formats.
18:59:29 <korvo> Yes, ECMAScript has been bad for JSON. Fortunately, Python, Ruby, and lots of other languages will gladly write and read bigints in JSON.
18:59:37 <zzo38> (Also, what kind of data structures are useful depends on the programs; for some uses, JSON has a suitable structure but others it doesn't)
18:59:58 <zzo38> JavaScript does have a integer type, although it was added after JSON was invented and cannot be used in JSON.
19:01:57 <zzo38> DER is a binary format (although I had made up a few new types in it too, such as key/value list), which is already going to be used by programs that deal with HTTPS and other TLS-based protocols anyways, and I had made up a text-based format called TER and a program to convert TER->DER, so that is another possibility.
19:02:18 <korvo> Is this related to BER? I see you talking a lot about ASN.1.
19:02:57 <zzo38> Yes; DER is a subset of BER, which only allows one possible encoding, so it is a canonical form (the other canonical form is CER, but I think that DER is better)
19:04:18 <zzo38> Probably the most common use of DER is X.509 certificates, although it can be used for other data as well if you want to do.
19:04:57 <korvo> That's the only place I see ASN.1. I know that it comes up in some industrial/manufacturing contexts.
19:08:12 <zzo38> (My "ASN.1X" variant (which adds the types I mentioned) also deprecates some things and adds some additional restrictions (e.g. the presence or absence of an optional field (or one with a default value) must be deteminable without looking ahead), although X.509 does not violate these restrictions as far as I know.)
19:20:27 <zzo38> (Also, XML had been used for things it is not suitable for much in past; the structure of XML may be suitable for some things (e.g. rich text) but is bad for many other things.)
19:21:10 <korvo> Sure. XML's handling of binary data is still terrible, in particular. JSON doesn't really solve this, but the community seems to have decided that Base64 will work.
19:25:34 <zzo38> PostScript has hex strings and ascii85 strings. TER has hex strings and base64 strings. (In all of these cases they are converted to binary strings)
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19:55:36 <b_jonas> wWwwW: I personally think that prolog is one of the worst languages to learn as a beginner programmer. There are way too many cases when a mistake results in backtracking failure rather than aborting, which makes it hard to debug. Now if you want to learn how to write an interpreter, then prolog has an advantage, which is that just like lisps it's shipped with a quite versatile reader that you can
19:55:42 <b_jonas> easily invoke in runtime, the same reader that is used to read prolog programs, and that reader has a much more flexible and convenient syntax than the lisps that do the same. Mathematica is probably better than either of these with respect to flexible built-in reader of the same language, but unless you can get a license through your school it's also rather expensive, so I can't recommend it for that
19:56:49 <b_jonas> There was some weird word for this property of lisps and prolog and mathematic, reading data in the same form as the program, perhaps "homoiconic".
20:01:50 <korvo> Ah, for sure. I continue to hope that wWwwW is learning six or so different languages, and that this introductory taste of Prolog will be balanced out by a Forth.
20:02:08 <korvo> (I've no fear that, at some point, wWwwW will have to learn something like Python.)
20:02:50 <korvo> I wish Wolfram weren't the only popular implementation of M-expressions. There's no real reason that that technology has to cost money.
20:38:15 <b_jonas> Unrelated to that, I have a weird eso-syntax question. Consider a programming language syntax that uses the traditional fortran/algol/C syntax for named function calls, with parenthesis and commas, so f() or f(A) or f(A,B) or f(A,B,C) are function calls where f is a function name and A, B, C are expressions. Suppose that the language is also like haskell or rust in that struct/enum constructors use a
20:38:22 <b_jonas> similar syntax, so f can also be the name of a constructor in those expressions, and in that case you can use the parenthesis comma notation in a pattern too. Would it make sense to name some of the important built-in or library constructors or functions with a name that has digits only? Eg. instead of False() or None() you write 0(), instead of True() you write 1(), instead of Just(A) you write 1(A),
20:38:28 <b_jonas> instead of a tuple (A,B) you write 1(A,B), instead of a cons pair [A|B] you write 2(A,B) and maybe 2(A,B,C) means the double cons [A,B|C] by analogy. Or 4(somefunction,somelist) is a map, 5(somefunction,somelist) is a filter, 6(somefunction,somelist) is a fold. To be clear these are numerals used as names, not actual numbers, so if you have a variable that has the number 2 as its value then you can't
20:38:34 <b_jonas> call that as a cons constructor. 2(A,B) gets to be unambiguous special syntax because you can't call a number.
20:38:57 <b_jonas> Rust uses numeric names for the *fields* of tuple structs, but I haven't seen all-digit names used as constructor or function names yet.
20:39:08 <b_jonas> Is there a language that works this way?
20:39:49 <b_jonas> This could be appropriate for a langauge that has somewhat terse syntax, even if it doesn't necessarily go full golf language route.
20:40:07 <b_jonas> I may consider it for a toy language.
21:24:36 <b_jonas> oh wow. this video by Usage Electric "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe1wYwGcjlo" casually mentions one of the most hardcore esolanging challenges that I'd ever heard of. you know how multiple retrocomputing hobbyists have built a computer of their own original design from retro hardware, eg. https://esolangs.org/wiki/Magic-1 and https://esolangs.org/wiki/BMOW_1 ? Usagi Electric is building one from
21:25:10 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme/Emojic collab with yayimhere and ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147550&oldid=147535 * Tommyaweosme * (+332) /* commands */ did a complete makeover of the command definitions section
21:28:41 <b_jonas> that's not even the topic of the video, he just mentions it casually as if every retro hardware collector had one of those things in their house.
21:30:12 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Tommyaweosme * uploaded "[[File:Emojic chances.png]]"
21:30:32 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme/Emojic collab with yayimhere and ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147552&oldid=147550 * Tommyaweosme * (+351) /* suggested names */
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21:43:29 <korvo> Remarkable, thanks for sharing.
21:56:45 <esolangs> [[F (None1)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147553&oldid=132172 * Tommyaweosme * (+0) fixing one letter (major typo)
22:05:13 <esolangs> [[Desrever]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147554&oldid=147545 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+42) Categories
22:12:51 <esolangs> [[Talk:Addpocalypse]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147555&oldid=145403 * Arctenik * (+136) /* Turing-complete variation */ marking my own unsigned comment lol
22:15:38 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147556&oldid=146740 * Ractangle * (-10)
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22:25:05 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147557&oldid=147134 * Aadenboy * (+486) /* File removal */ new section
22:25:42 <esolangs> [[Baba is you]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=147558 * Aadenboy * (+25) while I'm at it...
22:26:05 <esolangs> [[Baba is You]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=147559 * Aadenboy * (+25) while I'm at it...
22:29:40 <zzo38> Is a documentation available of the computer with the vacuum tubes?
22:30:35 <b_jonas> zzo38: I'm still looking that up now. There's the playlist https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnw98JPyObn0v-98gRV9PfzAQONTKxql3 , and possibly more on Patreon.
22:31:14 <b_jonas> I'll definitely need to create a page for this on the wiki
22:32:35 <esolangs> [[User:B jonas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147560&oldid=145124 * B jonas * (+146) /* Todo */
22:33:02 <esolangs> [[User:B jonas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147561&oldid=147560 * B jonas * (+44) /* Todo */
22:35:31 <esolangs> [[Burgercamp/Constants]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147562&oldid=130672 * Tommyaweosme * (+121) /* 26 and onward */ added several new values and optimized 70 and variants
22:36:39 <esolangs> [[Burgercamp/Constants]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147563&oldid=147562 * Tommyaweosme * (+55) /* words in burgercamp */ added dom and mod
22:37:09 <esolangs> [[Talk:A]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=147564 * 5anz * (+266) Created page with "== Hello, World! == The hello world program contains 152,570,517,485,533,290,608,442,189,665,495,821,647,629,752,124,269,350,649,720,544,795,330,670,304,842,157,265,582,311,948,436 <code>A</code>s if you're curious. -~~~"
22:37:22 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147565&oldid=147240 * Aadenboy * (+348) hey!
22:40:51 <esolangs> [[User:Fazaazafg]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147566&oldid=109761 * Fazaazafg * (+22)
22:42:59 <esolangs> [[Esolang talk:Categorization]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147567&oldid=144285 * B jonas * (+799) /* Retro style hardware */ new section
22:45:51 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme/last edit]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=147568 * Tommyaweosme * (+437) Created page with "{{lowercase}} every user has a last edit. most people dont try and think about it too much, but it will always happen to us someday. someday we will fix our last typo. someday we will create our last article. someday we will categorize our last l
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23:12:32 <esolangs> [[User talk:Ais523]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147569&oldid=147557 * None1 * (+289) /* Can you help fix this mess */
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23:18:21 <esolangs> [[Talk:A]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147570&oldid=147564 * 5anz * (+125)
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23:46:41 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Dtp09 * uploaded "[[File:Tile xkcd randomnumber.png]]"
23:48:49 <esolangs> [[Tile]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147572&oldid=147497 * Dtp09 * (+1303) /* Code Examples */ added xkcd random number
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