print("print(\"print(\\"Hell
> 1733582222 277540 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:5anz14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147692&oldid=146997 5* 035anz 5* (+123) 10/* Esolangs I made */
> 1733582326 267469 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Print("Hello, World!")14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147693&oldid=147691 5* 035anz 5* (+85) 10
> 1733582634 478180 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Print("Hello, World!")14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147694&oldid=147693 5* 035anz 5* (+87) 10
> 1733582958 48933 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Print("Hello, World!")14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147695&oldid=147694 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+0) 10
< 1733587261 469597 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1733588028 958306 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Instructructinstructistructististuctistuctistuctuctistuctistuctisuctisuructistuctisurctisurctisurctisurcticticiciticitsurcticitststurcticitstucitstucrcticitstucritstucritucrit14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147696&oldid=147655 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+82) 10
< 1733588434 984671 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Soni: It's important to not mix up addressing (what URLs do) and layout on disk (what filesystems do).
< 1733588459 991320 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :A module can be a submodule in multiple different ways. Should it be available via many different addresses?
< 1733588507 451621 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Also most languages that support HTTP imports also support addressing by content; a module is usually going to be canonically identified by a cryptographic hash.)
< 1733588648 743725 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: it's important to recognize that URIs contain paths
< 1733588942 292160 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Soni: Some do. Some are key-value dictionaries. Some are hashes with a hint about how to resolve them.
< 1733588977 177797 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, http uris do at least
< 1733589000 857261 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :But I think that the second point is the more important one. In e.g. Java, your scheme arises naturally because of (anonymous) inner classes; each class gets compiled to its own file, but the paths of inner classes can be understood as dependent upon their outer classes.
< 1733589014 900330 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :That's not use sites or import sites, but definition sites.
< 1733589123 52589 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Soni: I guess a guiding question might be: are you hoping for something closer to JAR, or something closer to WASM? How much does module identity matter? Can modules be instantiated repeatedly? Is there a reason to avoid content addressing?
< 1733589156 484857 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: something closer to python or lua
< 1733589170 159856 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Last time I went through this exercise, I used WASM for code, and I had two HTTP routes. One route was a POST for creating new modules, and one was a GET that took hashes and returned hashed modules.
< 1733589199 444663 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Soni: Oh. Those languages don't exactly have modules; Python has per-module dicts and Lua has per-module tables, but they don't decompose cleanly.
< 1733589225 647696 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :they have module file lookup systems
< 1733589230 781423 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :(import/require systems)
< 1733589236 807315 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Like, if order of imports matters, then it's probably not real modules.
< 1733589237 519705 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :which is all that matters here really
< 1733589268 177490 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :alternatively, rust
< 1733589345 730921 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :alternatively alternatively, we use a funny naming convention in elixir where we put the filesystem files under e.g. connection.ex.d/registration.ex since elixir doesn't care about filenames
< 1733589351 483730 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Rust and Java use their packages to achieve modularity. A Rust crate or a Java package provides a unifying namespace and a compilation barrier. Both are oriented around the idea that programmers get to choose their module names.
< 1733589367 609937 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :what about a rust "mod foo;"
< 1733589380 479303 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The word "module" doesn't denote modules.
< 1733589429 205104 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Language designers haven't taken the concept seriously enough. They have mastered the idea of compilation units, but not modules. Languages like C++ and JS took multiple tries to get working modules, and arguably C++ still hasn't figured it out.
< 1733589430 480961 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :why do we even point out what we're basing on
< 1733589455 462514 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Y'all can do whatever you want. I'm not stopping you. I'm just providing context.
< 1733589469 593920 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :you're ignoring what we're saying
< 1733589555 580570 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Really? I'm trying seriously to understand "putting a module in a module". I'm thinking both about systems with first-class modules like SML, and systems where each module is a compilation unit like WASM.
< 1733589597 47016 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :what about systems like rust where you can write "mod foo { mod bar { fn foo() { println!("this is foo::bar::foo()"); } } }"
< 1733589633 665916 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The namespace doesn't make the modularity. The isolation (in this case, via crates) is important.
< 1733589641 451479 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Python and C++ namespaces aren't modules.
< 1733589647 936410 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :"mod" stands for "module"
< 1733589682 872900 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"module" also means "vector space over a semiring". Appeals to dictionaries don't help here.
< 1733589737 899617 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :we mean "rust claims the "mod" keyword introduces a new "module", which is usually placed in a separate file identified by the name of the module plus the .rs extension"
< 1733589739 958528 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :What I'm saying is that a module isn't merely a compilation unit. It's a parameterizable isolated hunk of open code which is repeatedly instantiated with other modules in a tree/graph to create a specialized program.
< 1733589765 969465 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :but that's not the module we're talking about
< 1733589771 267703 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :C++'s "modules" are its templates. Rust's "modules" are its crates and macros.
< 1733589800 866242 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :hey, wasm has modules too
< 1733589813 784360 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :(your meaning of modules)
< 1733589826 404467 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Uh conflicting uses of "module" detected.
< 1733589831 334339 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :To first order, yes. WASM was designed fairly recently, and they learned from mistakes.
< 1733589831 372909 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1733589853 883047 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(compilation unit vs. something closer to ML functors)
< 1733589857 709311 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: yes, we don't know how to fix this
< 1733589874 532958 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :... fine we'll call them compilation units
< 1733589915 404281 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :we want our compilation units to be laid out in a path in an "impossible" way
< 1733589922 310534 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: Yeah sorry, they're going to have to clash. ML functors are shadows of a genuine category of modules, while most other systems only allow a DAG of compositions. I'm thinking of "ML-style" and I guess "CLU-style" modules?
< 1733589974 967674 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Soni: That's much easier. The hard part of compilation units is gluing them together after they're compiled; compiling each individual file on disk is a straightforward and fun exercise.
< 1733590014 125736 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :okay, so let's say we have a bytecode format
< 1733590041 701454 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: Let's clash some more: real modules have rings.
< 1733590080 58849 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :... actually we don't even know anymore, thanks for making us confused about terminology to the point where we can't talk about it we guess?
< 1733590082 870552 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :(sigh)
< 1733590084 625852 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :. o O ( see also: modular arithmetic )
< 1733590097 763238 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :(was that deliberate?)
< 1733590136 147375 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :... wait maybe we can still do this
< 1733590188 214282 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: Ha! Lovely pun. Yeah, you may be right; I don't remember whether modules are over rings or semirings. I was always frustrated at this nomenclature because it feels like folks want to fix their field/ring/semiring and forget it, but want to remember whether we have modules or vector spaces.
< 1733590259 71150 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Soni: Sorry for being confusing. I've done several periods of research into modules, particularly for object-oriented languages, and one of my main lessons was that language authors don't know what modules are.
< 1733590293 770935 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :we want a require() function that takes names (in the form of arbitrary strings), these names are then interpreted to form a path of (source/binary) files to instantiate (in a singleton way), in a way that's impossible to represent on a traditional filesystem/OS: when require("foo", "bar") is called, the file foo is instantiated first, and then the file bar under the file foo (and this is the key to making it impossible on a traditional OS/
< 1733590293 809117 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :filesystem)
< 1733590305 867920 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it also supports virtual filesystems and search paths, including via http
< 1733590317 886668 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: this helps?
< 1733590368 539393 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Soni: Yeah, except for the two obvious issues. First, why want something impossible? Second, this sounds like it can be encoded with traditional files, and you'd have to deliberately make it jank to make it impossible.
< 1733590388 480032 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm in a worse situation than language authors now. I don't know what a module is *twice*. I don't know what properties korvo thinks defines a module, and what properties Soni cares about here.
< 1733590439 500690 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Schema languages, e.g. Capn Proto, support importing other schemata by hash. The Capn Proto compiler doesn't know how to read anything from the filesystem, but it knows how to call target-specific helpers which can do target-specific filesystem shenanigans.
< 1733590459 114412 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :So modularity is not Capn's problem, but implemented by each target harness.
< 1733590540 162062 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wib_jonas: I bet we agree on first-order modularity, where everything is a first-order procedure and we can add procedures to our namespace with metasyntax, two-tiered syntax, or directives/pragmas. I bet Soni agrees on that, too.
< 1733590554 445086 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: first, because this is esolangs. we don't really need an explanation, we want it because we want it. tho if you want the long explanation it comes from recognizing that the way we encode paths is a form of domain-specific language (URIs are also a DSL btw but at least they have escapes) and recognizing that typed APIs do not need to use such inefficient and overly restrictive information transfer formats (just take an array of strings like a
< 1733590554 526997 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs : normal API).
< 1733590569 7747 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't think we agree on the nature of side effects, higher-order modules, or parameterization.
< 1733590589 843573 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :secondly, if deliberately making it jank is necessary to drive the point home, then deliberately making it jank is what we'll do
< 1733590655 295006 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :the only reason we don't take an array of strings is that early filesystems didn't have directories
< 1733590659 400622 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Soni: I'm not demanding an explanation~ Don't worry about convincing me that your idea is good. That's not what I'm here for.
< 1733590681 778073 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :(can you believe we're stuck with 40+ years old legacy)
< 1733590723 959358 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :BTW have you seen Tcl? This row-of-strings dispatch sounds familiar.
< 1733590749 102882 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :we have not, no
< 1733590777 570795 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :macOS has its own legacy with the : aka / thing
< 1733590788 799227 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :which we'd argue is even worse tbh
< 1733590916 453042 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Soni: Okay. So, here's a sketch of a proof that y'all's require() can't work. Let require() be a black-box function from a list of strings to a list of path segments, which might not be strings but are still hashable bytes.
< 1733590958 459180 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Then there's a universal system for storing those paths. Hash the path and derive a filename from the hash. git is an example system which supports any DAG this way.
< 1733590993 310989 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :So I think that "impossible" is probably the wrong thing to want. Which is good! I presume that ya
< 1733591001 756542 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*that y'all actually want to *implement* this at some point.
< 1733591936 819804 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :"impossible" is in quotes for a reason
< 1733591951 1583 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :this is trivial in http
< 1733593582 317895 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1733593926 240630 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1733594135 444433 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo JOIN #esolangs craigo :realname
< 1733594198 980701 :zenmov!~zenmov@user/zenmov QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1733594509 986328 :zenmov!~zenmov@user/zenmov JOIN #esolangs zenmov :zenmov
> 1733594796 214394 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[071^14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147697&oldid=146865 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+58) 10
< 1733594922 321039 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1733594975 993236 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
< 1733594993 303146 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds
< 1733595056 705945 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1733595550 196494 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Soni: You're right. I'm sorry for being so negative.
> 1733596728 727612 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[076 trits, 243 trytes14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147698&oldid=147671 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+101) 10Categories
> 1733596814 423762 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[076 trits, 243 trytes14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147699&oldid=147698 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+3) 10Categories
> 1733596949 385520 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07WC is a toilet but v, and c are Unlambda operators14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147700&oldid=138926 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+35) 10
> 1733597074 900404 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07(0123456789!14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147701&oldid=147667 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+91) 10Categories
> 1733597176 740193 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07(0123456789!14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147702&oldid=147701 5* 03PythonshellDebugwindow 5* (+57) 10Categories
> 1733597598 868127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Setlang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147703&oldid=114977 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+25) 10/* Interpreter */
> 1733597666 289809 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Category:Accumulator-based14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147704&oldid=117870 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+9) 10
> 1733597866 145939 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[071^14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147705&oldid=147697 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+153) 10/* Syntax */
> 1733597992 823494 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07-14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147706&oldid=73724 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+401) 10
< 1733598166 166562 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: IIUC Soni argued that if we make regular files also directories, and we do this early enough in the operating system so that all the file copy or download tools handle it transparently, then we can group related files under a file as directory entries. I argued that that's usually not really better than representing objects with just directories rather than regular files. Hashing paths to
< 1733598172 133985 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :filenames is counterproductive to this task, because then it's hard or impossible to find groups of related files.
> 1733598273 951879 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BITE/Quines14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=147707 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+271) 10Created page with " \x00 \x01 \x02 \x03 \x04 \x05 \x06 \x07 \x08 \t \n \x0b \x0c \r \x0e \x0f \x10 \x11 \x12 \x13 \x14 \x15 \x16 \x17 \x18 \x19 \x1a \x1b \x1c \x1d \x1e \x1f ! " # $ % & ' ( ) * + , - . / 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
> 1733598298 527487 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BITE14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147708&oldid=143631 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+33) 10/* Quine */
< 1733598299 470269 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :What makes them related? Is it just human opinion, or is it structures inside some files?
> 1733598365 342657 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[071^14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147709&oldid=147705 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+12) 10
< 1733598927 671594 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: I don't understand the submodule thing that Soni says; I was mostly thinking of application file formats such as video game saves or databases that you usually only access with just one specific program, or, say, a Microsoft Word document that has jpegs embedded, but are more conveniently stored in multiple files than in one file, possibly because the user might want to access the subfiles, or it
< 1733598933 979594 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :helps version control, or you're doing a lot of large updates that don't replace everything but leave large parts of data that are no longer valid and if it was in a single file you'd otherwise punch a sparse file hole or something to reclaim (does Windows support that these days by the way?)
> 1733598937 703090 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[071^14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147710&oldid=147709 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+45) 10/* Syntax */
< 1733599017 796734 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sure. The pattern of a directory for a project, rather than a file for a document.
> 1733599050 812437 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Advance The Wheel!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147711&oldid=92886 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+28) 10/* Self-interpreter */
> 1733599074 133344 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Advance The Wheel!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147712&oldid=147711 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+2) 10/* Self-interpreter */
> 1733599764 600168 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147713&oldid=147507 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+52) 10/* Cmds */
> 1733599926 711958 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147714&oldid=147713 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (-57) 10/* Russian Roulette */
> 1733599956 585098 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147715&oldid=147714 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (+0) 10/* Russian Roulette */
> 1733599975 134791 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147716&oldid=147715 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (-6) 10/* Russian Roulette */
> 1733599981 108605 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Prajwal S N 5* 10New user account
> 1733600012 473258 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07 but with only plausible commands14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147717&oldid=140395 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (-101) 10/* ^ Interpreter */
> 1733600031 433909 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07 but with only plausible commands14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147718&oldid=147717 5* 03Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 5* (-312) 10
> 1733600312 592611 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147719&oldid=147546 5* 03Prajwal S N 5* (+201) 10
< 1733600343 688750 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :y'all aren't much fun
< 1733600366 156283 :Soni!~quassel@sodapop.autistic.space PRIVMSG #esolangs :(also we fell asleep, hi again)
> 1733600657 785955 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147720&oldid=147556 5* 03Prajwal S N 5* (+681) 10Add quine
< 1733600993 54847 :Everything!~Everythin@46.211.214.172 JOIN #esolangs Everything :Everything
< 1733601169 692441 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah, that's fair.
> 1733601267 908052 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Ractangle/my current knowledge of PascallABC.NET14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147721&oldid=146001 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+14) 10
< 1733601280 246960 :sprout!~sprout@84-80-106-227.fixed.kpn.net PRIVMSG #esolangs :say it like it is
> 1733601572 135670 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07FlipFlop14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147722&oldid=144847 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+1) 10/* Examples? */
> 1733602149 726102 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[074ME14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147723&oldid=144407 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-6) 10/* Commands */
> 1733602500 951836 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Comment14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147724&oldid=145876 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+59) 10/* Rewritten 4ME */
> 1733603070 616984 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Ractangle14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147725&oldid=147520 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-1) 10/* Other things */
< 1733603600 593659 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1733603709 162151 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Albuquerque challenge14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147726&oldid=147652 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+28) 10category
< 1733603959 253770 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :In Advance The Wheel!, it appears that partial evaluation should be able to fully evaluate any known queues, and the main obstacle is that a residual program needs to start with The Wheel in A, which requires that all control flow in the residue is somehow synchronized at the end.
< 1733604043 205321 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :But Turing-completeness of ATW! implies that there's no computable way to synchronize The Wheel. Or, um. I just lost my train of thought.
< 1733604256 348533 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1733604418 92751 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs * :realname
< 1733605035 883776 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1733605138 954418 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :New train pulled into the station. Why should The Wheel start at A? I mean, it's nice and all, but as a musician I can't help but rotate it. For example, starting in the "key" of F, The Wheel's got a nice NOP pattern: NOP, 1, NOP, 2, NOP, 3, repeat.
< 1733605730 483541 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1733606161 795796 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :About regular files are also directories, my idea is that files can contain bytes as well as links to other files. There are no file names (although a file can contain a key/value list mapping names to links, or whatever other structure you want for the links). This is not quite the same but is similar.
< 1733606211 729295 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :About embedding stuff in other files, and application file formats, etc, I had considered stuff like that also and had decided to make Common Data Format; it can include opaque data but also many kind of structured data, so many data can be shared between programs better.
< 1733606328 785716 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :However, such a hyperlinked system can have some issues e.g. with hashing and transfering to other disks etc, but I had also considered it, that a interchange format that is used for the package manager (and other things) that can put multiple files represented together into one file, including queries for finding external files that might be linked when installed (by whatever criteria you want to use).
< 1733606637 440172 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Some programming languages do have a separate type for file names than text strings, I think.
< 1733606683 392694 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1733606691 44210 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I think Lisp does, and I think BTRON provides a type to use for this purpose in a C header file)
< 1733607076 444429 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
< 1733607814 199899 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1733608362 831615 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1733609374 115232 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1733609389 563345 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Client Quit
< 1733609467 85723 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1733611288 272607 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03NeriyaCo 5* 10New user account
> 1733612437 645479 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[072Deadfish/Constants14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147727&oldid=120506 5* 03Squidmanescape 5* (+237) 10typo
< 1733612798 516504 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1733612860 69076 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147728&oldid=147719 5* 03NeriyaCo 5* (+177) 10
> 1733612872 911125 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Dotsscript14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=147729 5* 03NeriyaCo 5* (+3797) 10Created page with "DotsScript is a JavaScript interpreter that makes your JavaScript code much simpler by making the whole code using 2 characters only, the . and the