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01:15:26 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147736&oldid=147506 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-4) [[Box]] already redirects here
01:15:45 <esolangs> [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147737&oldid=147716 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-4) Box redirects to []
01:23:23 <esolangs> [[F!]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147738&oldid=126722 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+27) /* Interpreters */
01:24:31 <esolangs> [[/\110010000100110110010]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=147739 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+38) Redirected page to [[110010000100110110010]]
01:25:16 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/move]] move * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * moved [[/\110010000100110110010]] to [[/l\110010000100110110010]]: Misspelled title
01:25:43 <esolangs> [[/\110010000100110110010]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147742&oldid=147741 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+0) Changed redirect target from [[/l\110010000100110110010]] to [[110010000100110110010]]
01:39:34 <esolangs> [[CT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147743&oldid=67556 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+60)
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01:45:55 <esolangs> [[CW@ 3 cell brainfuck substitution]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147744&oldid=134008 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+21)
01:48:32 <esolangs> [[A Very BASIC Esolang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147745&oldid=140546 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (-101) /* Commands */
01:50:36 <esolangs> [[TWFUNSETDCMFIU]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147746&oldid=145309 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+40) /* Commands */
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03:07:20 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/upload]] upload * Rottytooth * uploaded "[[File:Esolangs A Programming Language Is.png]]": The "A programming language is a system of notation for writing computer programs." page run as an "A programming language is a system of notation for writing computer programs." program
03:07:47 <esolangs> [[User:Tomrs123 2]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=147748 * Tomrs123 2 * (+105) Create my page! :D
03:08:37 <esolangs> [[A programming language is a system of notation for writing computer programs.]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147749&oldid=147577 * Rottytooth * (-14) /* Quine */
03:13:27 <esolangs> [[User talk:Rottytooth]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147750&oldid=147612 * Rottytooth * (+385) /* File:Wikipedia A Programming Language Is.png */
03:14:23 <esolangs> [[File talk:Wikipedia A Programming Language Is.png]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=147751 * Rottytooth * (+127) Created page with "This image can be deleted. Thanks --~~~~"
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04:24:44 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Wower2332 * New user account
05:15:34 <esolangs> [[User:RaiseAfloppaFan3925]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147752&oldid=143430 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+37)
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06:03:58 <esolangs> [[Wasaya]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147753&oldid=147685 * PrySigneToFry * (+19)
06:05:22 <esolangs> [[User talk:ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147754&oldid=147604 * PrySigneToFry * (+239) /* Answer of Wuling */ new section
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07:32:14 <esolangs> [[Bussin X]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=147756 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+8126) Created page with "{{Template:Stub}} Bussin and Bussin X are both programming languages made by FaceDev/<code>face-hh</code>. Bussin is a normal programming language and Bussin X is an esoteric weirdlang. {{infobox proglang | name=Bussin, Bussin X | paradigms=imperative, pr
07:35:50 <esolangs> [[Bussin X]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147757&oldid=147756 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+0) Fixed Bussin repo link because I made a typo :(
07:37:01 <esolangs> [[Bussin]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=147758 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+22) Bussin and Bussin X are in the same page and search results need to support both
07:40:39 <esolangs> [[Bussin]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147759&oldid=147758 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+198) Added a notice
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08:27:12 <esolangs> [[1^]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147760&oldid=147710 * Ractangle * (+25) /* Syntax */
08:27:55 <esolangs> [[1^]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147761&oldid=147760 * Ractangle * (+12) /* Syntax */
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09:12:07 <esolangs> [[Bussin X]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147762&oldid=147757 * RaiseAfloppaFan3925 * (+548) Added categories and external resources
10:55:15 <esolangs> [[User:Ractangle]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147763&oldid=147725 * Ractangle * (+18) /* Gammaline stuff */
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11:46:14 <esolangs> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Ais523 * deleted "[[File:Wikipedia A Programming Language Is.png]]": Copyright violation: screenshot that captured some non-public-domain images
11:46:35 <esolangs> [[User talk:Rottytooth]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147764&oldid=147750 * Ais523 * (+153) /* File:Wikipedia A Programming Language Is.png */ deleted
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12:15:01 <ais523> korvo: so the starting position of The Wheel was chosen so that it would start with a conditional – the language is intended to golf a self-interpreter so it has to be good at writing interpreters, and the main loop of an interpreter has to start with a conditional because it's trying to work out what command to run
12:15:38 <ais523> and the letters are arbitrary, given that they exist only for talking about the language rather than being part of the language itself, so calling the first command A made sense just alphabetically
12:18:15 <ais523> zzo38: with your hyperlinked file format, I think it might make sense to distinguish between links that "own" their target (in much the same way as a directory owns the files within) and links that merely reference their target; this distinction has often been useful in practice, and it lets you implement, e.g., a recursive delete without accidentally deleting everything on the filesystem
12:19:07 <Sgeo> Rich Burlew posted an OOTS comic with alt text on BlueSky
12:19:34 <b_jonas> ais523: so would this be refcounted and those links are like a reference and a weak reference? or they're both references?
12:20:04 <int-e> Sgeo: Oh no will BlueSky survive that massive data dump?
12:20:32 <ais523> the non-owning links are like weak references, yes – the owning ones are like strong references or possibly even "unique" references (in the sense that they are the only strong reference, but weak references are still allowed)
12:23:49 <esolangs> [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147766&oldid=147720 * Prajwal S N * (+63) Add required missing cells for shortest hello world
12:23:55 <int-e> . o O ( hyperlinked file format - reinventing OLE? )
12:24:57 <b_jonas> so when a process has a file descriptor open to a file, would it also be allowed to choose if that file descriptor holds a strong or weak reference, and if it's weak and the file is garbage-collected then calls like read/write fail, but if you map the file you need the reference to be strong?
12:28:19 <int-e> Hmm, QC has not resurfaced yet.
12:28:52 <int-e> or is that a local problem just for me...
12:30:16 <int-e> Damn, it is. IOW Cloudflare fucked up.
12:35:41 <ais523> b_jonas: I imagine that in practice, processes would almost always want a strong reference to the files they open
12:36:35 <ais523> hmm – it crosses my mind that the reason that my first thought was to ban multiple in-filesystem references to a file is probably the same reason that UNIXalikes tend to disallow hardlinks to directories
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13:06:45 <esolangs> [[User talk:/w/wiki/index.php/Talk:index.php/Main page]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147767&oldid=147193 * PrySigneToFry * (+414)
13:07:12 <esolangs> [[User talk:/w/wiki/index.php/Talk:index.php/Main page]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147768&oldid=147767 * PrySigneToFry * (-5)
13:10:45 <b_jonas> ais523: more importantly, unix doesn't have cross-filesystem links, and that restriction is especially useful if you want to reference count with references to a network file system
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14:21:13 <esolangs> [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147769&oldid=147686 * ColorfulGalaxy's CA discoveries * (+513) /* Shidinn wiki */ Another problem) (----
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14:59:44 <esolangs> [[Talk:Execline]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=147770 * Ractangle * (+234) Created page with "this 1000% better than my old esolang that uses a shell like syntax~~~"
15:01:42 <esolangs> [[Talk:Execline]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147771&oldid=147770 * Ractangle * (+69)
15:03:26 <esolangs> [[Talk:Execline]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147772&oldid=147771 * Ractangle * (-303) I take that back
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16:01:16 <korvo> ais523: Cool, thanks. I know that The Wheel's letters are arbitrary, but I'm thinking about a partially-evaluated ATW! where The Wheel doesn't always start in the starting position, and the letters are useful for that.
16:01:32 <korvo> "thinking" is doing a lot of lifting there. It's on my mind.
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16:46:25 <esolangs> [[Comment]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147773&oldid=147724 * Ractangle * (+6) /* CLFCE */ i don't have my mouse today :(
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17:00:42 <esolangs> [[Execline]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147774&oldid=147734 * Corbin * (+361) There were releases of execline 1.2 in late 2013. Also add a quine with no external commands.
17:00:59 <esolangs> [[Snakel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147775&oldid=146205 * Ractangle * (-3169) /* Syntax */
17:01:08 <esolangs> [[Snakel/Syntax]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=147776 * Ractangle * (+3190) Created page with "Every program starts with a definition, to actually define a function, you can do this: {{Snakel|code={{h}}1: <font color="#ff0099">def ''name''</font>[arguments]; <font color="#00AA00">!Used for argumented functions</font><br> {{h}}2: {{H}}{{H}}{{H}}{{H}}<font
17:01:44 <esolangs> [[Snakel/Syntax]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147777&oldid=147776 * Ractangle * (+17)
17:03:56 <esolangs> [[Snakel/Errors]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147778&oldid=147393 * Ractangle * (+313) /* SyntaxError */
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17:05:54 <esolangs> [[Snakel/Errors]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147779&oldid=147778 * Ractangle * (-22) /* Using anything BUT a tab or 4 spaces as your indentation */
17:07:00 <esolangs> [[Snakel/Errors]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147780&oldid=147779 * Ractangle * (+59) /* Using anything BUT a tab/4 spaces as indentation */
17:08:22 <esolangs> [[Snakel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147781&oldid=147775 * Ractangle * (-35) /* Tour of the language */
17:09:34 <esolangs> [[Snakel/Compatibility methods]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147782&oldid=146561 * Ractangle * (+40) /* Ultium */
17:11:18 <esolangs> [[Snakel/Compatibility methods]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147783&oldid=147782 * Ractangle * (+2) /* Ultium */
17:12:23 <esolangs> [[MinusGreater]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147784&oldid=147324 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+9) /* truth-machine */
17:12:30 <esolangs> [[Snakel/Syntax]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147785&oldid=147777 * Ractangle * (+8)
17:29:25 <esolangs> [[Ascii]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=147786 * Tommyaweosme * (+19) Redirected page to [[ASCII]]
17:40:52 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147787&oldid=147617 * Tommyaweosme * (+68)
17:42:10 <esolangs> [[User:Tommyaweosme]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147788&oldid=147787 * Tommyaweosme * (+7)
17:54:55 <esolangs> [[Template:Snakel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147789&oldid=143548 * Ractangle * (+106)
17:55:32 <esolangs> [[110010000100110110010]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=147790 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+1277) Created page with "'''110010000100110110010''' is an esolang by [[User:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]]. == Execution == A 110010000100110110010 program is represented as a ser
17:55:39 <esolangs> [[Snakel]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147791&oldid=147781 * Ractangle * (-20) /* Examples */
17:55:41 <esolangs> [[110010000100110110010]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147792&oldid=147790 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+1) /* Another one */
17:55:58 <esolangs> [[110010000100110110010]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147793&oldid=147792 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+10)
18:02:49 <esolangs> [[Snakel/Syntax]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147794&oldid=147785 * Ractangle * (-22)
18:03:41 <esolangs> [[Snakel/Errors]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147795&oldid=147780 * Ractangle * (-40)
18:04:43 <esolangs> [[110010000100110110010]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147796&oldid=147793 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+225)
18:06:48 <esolangs> [[Snakel/Syntax]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147797&oldid=147794 * Ractangle * (+58)
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18:10:18 <esolangs> [[110010000100110110010]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147798&oldid=77030 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+47) /* Examples */
18:10:50 <esolangs> [[User:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147799&oldid=147330 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+59)
18:10:58 <esolangs> [[User:Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147800&oldid=147799 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+1)
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18:22:04 <esolangs> [[PDAsephone]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147801&oldid=147023 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+9) /* Implementation */
18:24:29 <FreeFull> I wonder how many logic programming esolangs there are
18:25:17 <FreeFull> https://esolangs.org/wiki/Backtracking_INTERCAL Oh my
18:26:27 <korvo> Every functional language can be embedded into a relational language, so it's mostly a matter of engineering a runtime that operates relationally.
18:59:21 <zzo38> ais523: Your idea about "owning" files is something too, although I had considered that all links are "strong" and there is no function to explicitly delete a file. However, I am not sure if it might be useful enough anyways.
19:00:05 <zzo38> Something I had considered though is that a link can optionally be to a specific version of a file, so that if the file is modified then it is copied and the link refers to the original file.
19:31:35 <korvo> In some systems, recently Attic for Nix, there's no way for users to control deletion of files, only deletion of names from namespaces. Nix's GC is used to delete files.
19:32:34 <korvo> In other systems, e.g. Tahoe-LAFS, there's no way for users to prevent deletion of files; reads are always best-effort. To counteract this, users can create multiple different fragments of files among many different storage servers and probabalistically recover the file.
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19:41:19 <ais523> FreeFull: I remember implementing that, ages ago
19:42:07 <ais523> only checking that it worked
19:42:18 <ais523> it's INTERCAL, after all
19:42:53 <ais523> there are very few things it's actually good at – at best you find something which it can do approximately as easily as typical modern programming languages
19:43:03 <ais523> but not things that it's much better at
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19:47:53 <zzo38> (In my idea, although files cannot be deleted, you can (individually) truncate all of a file's forks to zero length (which is the same as deleting those forks), if you have permission to write to all of the file's forks. However, the normal way to delete a file would be to get rid of all references to the file.)
19:50:42 <ais523> zzo38: I've been meaning to write about how garbage-collected languages still allow for use-after-free errors – the problem is that if a reference remains to something after it was supposed to be deleted, using that reference then gets you a stale object that contains old data
19:51:12 <ais523> and while it isn't as bad as undefined behaviour it usually isn't what you wanted, especially as you might expect that other things will react to you changing the object, but they don't because you now have the only reference
19:58:26 <ais523> so often, in a GC'd language, it's correct to explicitly mark an object in some way that indicates that it's no longer useful/alive, but in that case you need to know which object is responsible for doing that, which implies ownership behaviour anyway, and it's actually more work than just using precise weak references would be (i.e. the object is deleted the instant there are no strong references, without waiting for a GC delay, and the weak references are
20:07:26 <FreeFull> You can also get "memory leaks" by accidentally holding onto references somewhere
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20:16:31 <zzo38> Yes, I am aware of such things, although there are other ways around it too (e.g. to make a object that only contains a reference to the actual object, or whatever else is appropriate for the specific program that you are writing).
20:18:50 <zzo38> The OASYS text adventure system will automatically set all global references to an object to null if the object is deleted, but local references aren't automatically set to null. However, all objects in OASYS are always accessible because you can find the first object and the next object from any one.
20:19:55 <zzo38> Free Hero Mesh (and MESH:Hero) do not change any references (except that it is removed from the playfield) when an object is destroyed, but its fields are still accessible during the same turn in which it is destroyed (although the object can no longer move, cannot receive messages, etc).
20:21:10 <zzo38> (In MESH:Hero it will likely segfault if you try to access a destroyed object later. Free Hero Mesh detects this error accurately and will not segfault. Free Hero Mesh also allows the Destroyed flag to be read even after the turn has ended, although it is still an error to do anything else with such an object.)
20:22:58 <zzo38> JavaScript has revocable proxies.
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20:55:03 <esolangs> [[110010000100110110010]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147802&oldid=147796 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+4) /* Example */
20:55:12 <esolangs> [[110010000100110110010]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147803&oldid=147802 * Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff * (+2) /* Example */
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21:27:32 <esolangs> [[Snakel/Errors]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147804&oldid=147795 * Ractangle * (-19) /* SyntaxError */
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22:02:42 <esolangs> [[110010000100110110010]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147805&oldid=147803 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+96) Distinguish confusion, add categories
22:09:00 <esolangs> [[110010000100110110010]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147806&oldid=147798 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+75) Distinguish confusion, add category
22:11:56 <esolangs> [[110010000100110110010]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=147807&oldid=147806 * PythonshellDebugwindow * (+2) /* XKCD Random Number */ Fix example
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