do SubroutineName Indicates the beginning of a subroutine (or function). end Indicates the end of a subroutine (or function). CLS Clear the screen.
> 1738304546 759197 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Zyxonia14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151066&oldid=150975 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+60) 10
< 1738305273 277341 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Why is the object identifiers for BLAKE2 only the number of hash bits which is divisible by thirty-two, as far as I can tell? I thought BLAKE2 uses number of hash bits which is divisible by eight?
< 1738306653 907429 :FreeFull!~freefull@79.186.197.171.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl QUIT :
< 1738306670 437221 :FreeFull!~freefull@79.186.197.171.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl JOIN #esolangs FreeFull :FreeFull
> 1738307542 726544 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stackfish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151067&oldid=151038 5* 03Cycwin 5* (+43) 10
> 1738307594 247036 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stackfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151068&oldid=151067 5* 03Cycwin 5* (+2) 10
> 1738308428 767217 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stackfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151069&oldid=151068 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+740) 10
> 1738313729 681742 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stackfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151070&oldid=151069 5* 03Cycwin 5* (-1) 10
< 1738314752 665085 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
> 1738316010 315810 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stackfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151071&oldid=151070 5* 03Cycwin 5* (+53) 10
< 1738319344 33274 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: I don't know what object identifiers you're talking of
< 1738320024 620513 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :are you familiar with how we link to nontrivial brainfuck projects from the wiki? I'm not much into brainfuck so I'm not sure. I want to add https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmFmsn6VZSM which is about a large brainfuck program https://github.com/mitxela/bf-tic-tac-toe with some popular introduction to brainfuck.
< 1738320127 766845 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also the video links to https://www.linusakesson.net/programming/brainfuck/index.php which I somehow wasn't aware of, presumably I just don't click on links that say "Brainfuck" 
< 1738320177 498675 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :do I just put these under https://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck#External_resources or is there a better place?
> 1738320846 276772 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151072&oldid=149332 5* 03B jonas 5* (+286) 10/* External resources */
> 1738320949 293243 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Brainfuck implementations14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151073&oldid=150818 5* 03B jonas 5* (+96) 10Infrabuck, a Brainfuck compiler for Win32 by mitxela
> 1738322380 153347 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:I am islptng14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151074&oldid=150045 5* 03I am islptng 5* (-19) 10
> 1738322474 750942 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:I am islptng14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151075&oldid=151074 5* 03I am islptng 5* (-120) 10
> 1738324278 237557 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Cav14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151076&oldid=80555 5* 03Calculus is fun 5* (+0) 10Incorrect homophone fixed
< 1738325060 499491 :mtm!~textual@47.202.75.129 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1738325145 36699 :mtm!~textual@47.202.75.129 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1738325925 4517 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:MihaiEso14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151077&oldid=147596 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (-7) 10
> 1738326824 815831 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07MoreMathRPN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151078&oldid=150896 5* 03Calculus is fun 5* (+8) 10/* Leaping back */ changed inconsistent plurals
> 1738327153 876 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Funciton14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151079&oldid=150564 5* 03Timwi 5* (-210) 10Update the example factorial function, which has changed a fair bit
> 1738327470 510621 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07MoreMathRPN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151080&oldid=151078 5* 03Calculus is fun 5* (-44) 10Changed condition example
> 1738328153 671980 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07MoreMathRPN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151081&oldid=151080 5* 03Calculus is fun 5* (+0) 10/* Creating conditions */
> 1738328378 128165 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07MoreMathRPN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151082&oldid=151081 5* 03Calculus is fun 5* (+11) 10minor formatting
< 1738331521 958755 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs amby :realname
< 1738333495 948229 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: you can link any relevant external page from External resources, although if the list gets long it males sense to sort it with subheadings (that doesn't happen for most esolangs though) – there's an exception for the BF page in particular where most implementations got moved to a subpage for length reasons
< 1738333531 188759 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok
> 1738334291 448538 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07SeedFuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151083&oldid=151043 5* 03None1 5* (+5) 10
< 1738334537 939372 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
< 1738335021 130379 :chomwitt!~alex@2a02:587:7a26:9800:42b0:76ff:fe46:a5fd JOIN #esolangs chomwitt :realname
> 1738335323 47269 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:MihaiEso14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151084&oldid=150928 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+95) 10/* 0x1F609 */ new section
< 1738335776 677274 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User-webchat:37962 JOIN #esolangs DOS_User_webchat :[https://web.libera.chat] DOS_User_webchat
< 1738337670 103091 :DOS_User_webchat!~DOS_User_@user/DOS-User-webchat:37962 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1738343751 209285 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina JOIN #esolangs Lykaina :Lykaina Wolfe
< 1738343774 503647 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :is esolangs.org offline?
< 1738343915 499489 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Probably.
< 1738343958 509662 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :i got: 504 Gateway Time-out
< 1738344243 657806 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: esolangs.org is not working
< 1738344298 897689 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah, you want something to be done about it.
< 1738344352 311074 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Lykaina: I am the wrong person to ping for that, you want to ping fizzie
< 1738344363 736636 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I moderate the site, but I don't own it
< 1738344378 610257 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: esolangs.org is not working
< 1738344393 147205 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it does appear to be down, though
< 1738344413 601441 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :logs.esolangs.org is still up, that might help narrow down the issues somewhat
< 1738344466 131398 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm.
< 1738344476 763664 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I was just about to head out for groceries.
< 1738344586 101999 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Pursue work-life balance. The server can wait.
< 1738344620 405655 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :i need a sample "hello world" in befunge
< 1738344667 306896 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Lykaina: give me a moment
< 1738344670 161928 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :25*"!dlrow ,olleH">:#,_@   is what my memory suggests as the canonical one.
< 1738344688 663582 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :here: https://tio.run/##S0pNK81LT/3/X0kxJacoP1xBJz8nJ9VDyc5KWSfe4f9/AA
< 1738344708 194722 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Mine's got an extra newline in it, otherwise it's the same.
< 1738344721 743850 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah, fizzie's has a newline, I got mine from a codegolf collection so they leave newlines out whenever they can get away with it :-)
< 1738344737 359491 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://zem.fi/tmp/cpu.png <- that doesn't look great.
< 1738344759 962264 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'll see if just restarting nginx or something fixes it, otherwise it'll have to wait until after shopping.
< 1738344968 747708 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :FTR, there's been some pretty aggressive "clearly crawling without a crawler UA" crawling going on for the last couple of weeks again.
< 1738345129 54154 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Or else a number of people are *really* interested in old article versions and diff pages, and also always follow the link to Special:CreateAccount from constantly but don't actually make accounts.
< 1738345137 901447 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Which sounds somewhat unlikely.
< 1738345185 181341 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I wonder whether we could put some sort of invisible trap link on the page that blocks your IP if you visit it, robots.txt'd out and not visible to normal browsers
< 1738345282 309007 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :It might end up with a pretty long blocklist, the rate is roughly 5-10 qps but only one request every 15 minutes or so from any single IP.
< 1738345298 130364 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :It can be done wholly with nginx but it's a bit of a pain. First, identify possible crawlers based on high request rate. Second, serve invisible trap links to possible crawlers. Third, put anybody who clicks the trap link into a 24hr slow-loris jail.
< 1738345299 951689 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Which are all regular consumer ISPs.
< 1738345317 120099 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Do *not* block crawlers. It only burns their IPs, which are no longer as expensive as they used to be.
< 1738345343 484598 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's not that easy to distinguish these requests from legitimate ones TBH.
< 1738345373 303439 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :It can't be done per-request. It requires a context that associates each request with a likelihood of crawling.
< 1738345408 641289 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :And serving invisible trap links can't be done anymore; crawlers use browser heads to prune out links that humans can't see.
< 1738345430 419475 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: these ones might not – they're disregarding robots.txt, which most crawling frameworks wouldn't
< 1738345439 880048 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :...Sorry, I'm in "free advice" mode. I'll fuck off and find breakfast.
< 1738345467 167936 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: robots.txt is for humans, not bots; it can't possibly protect a site.
< 1738345553 977195 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: well, it's for well-behaved bots, which a) gives the well-behaved bots more useful information in most cases where it's used (because it helps them avoid pages that wouldn't be useful for them) and b) makes well-behaved bot behaviour easier to identify, which in turn makes badly-behaved bot behaviour easier to identify
< 1738345613 738656 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :intentionally ignoring robots.txt is weird, that normally a) makes life worse for the bot as it gets lots of irrelevant pages, b) makes life worse for the site owner as they have to handle lots of irrelevant requests, thus c) increases the incentive of the site owner to block the bot, potentially meaning it gets no results at all
< 1738345618 863470 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Well, it's... sluggish, but sort of back up.
< 1738345673 314340 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there is very little advantage to doing that, so whoever has not programmed their bots to respect it either a) doesn't know it exists, in which case the crawler is probably very primitive, or b) is intentionally ignoring it, in which case there is something weird about the operation that might affect the crawler in other ways
< 1738345701 339753 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :looks like either this is miscoded, or my interpreter got something backwards: 25*"!dlroW ,olleH">:#,_@
< 1738345737 288295 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've been assuming they're intentionally trying to appear as non-bots, given that the user agents are those of regular browsers, and all the traffic is originating from a big set of (spot-checking a handful) just regular consumer ISPs (so, a botnet?).
< 1738345738 336560 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :is your interpreter filling the stack with infinitely many implicit 0s at the start of the program?
< 1738345759 791442 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: botnet is quite possible
< 1738345777 850315 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :have you tried putting some of the ISPs into one of those sites which records known botnets?
< 1738345783 630045 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :err, IPs, not ISPs
< 1738345874 863864 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I tried one, and it says it's not a bot, but it *is* a VPN, with a "84% - Abusive IP" status, whatever that means.
< 1738345879 834658 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :found the problem: my interpreter has the '_' backwards
< 1738345894 93833 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :So I guess that's another option, VPN providers would presumably want to make their connections look "regular" as well.
< 1738345942 742204 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh right, VPN would make a lot of sense for that
< 1738345985 863612 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I may need to do look into something like limiting old page revisions and diffs to logged-in users only.
< 1738345989 985382 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :But now off to the shoppe.
< 1738346166 927468 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :also had '|' backwards
< 1738346185 309504 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Lykaina: do you know of Mycology?
< 1738346199 686108 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :no
< 1738346205 42871 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :admittedly it might not be usable if your playfield is smaller than usual
< 1738346209 677420 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it is a Befunge interpreter testsuite
< 1738346219 868764 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :mostly aimed at Befunge-98 but it does have a Befunge-93 section
< 1738346252 947987 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :my playfield is 80x25 atm
< 1738346262 951906 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, that's the standard size I think
< 1738346325 42979 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I appreciate your perspective. I wasn't spitballing, but distilling serious lessons learned from working at large companies with lots of incoming requests. One important concept is Hyrum's Law, which has one phrasing of "clients can send servers any well-typed message".
< 1738346355 849225 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :robots.txt is a political tool with which to pressure e.g. Google to be better-behaved, sure, but it is fundamentally useless against adverse scrapers.
< 1738346394 959348 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: I have an interesting viewpoint on Hyrum's Law – it's basically "if you change any API endpoint that anyone could potentially be using (even if they aren't supposed to), even in a way that shouldn't theoretically matter, it will probably break something for someone – it's up to you to decide whether you think that breakage is acceptable"
< 1738346440 482987 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but in many cases, the breakage can be acceptable (or sometimes even intentional)
< 1738346703 289893 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Lykaina: ah, found the link, https://deewiant.iki.fi/projects/mycology/
< 1738346725 708855 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: My viewpoint is that Hyrum is a valued former coworker with a valuable insight. I once spent about a quarter-year of my Google employment performing per-request analysis on *internal* RPCs that were overwhelming an internal service.
< 1738346770 494760 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I am not convinced that these viewpoints contradict each other
< 1738346803 688673 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh, of course not.
< 1738346934 510316 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :fixed this: https://lykaina.sdf.org/esolangs/catline.b93
< 1738346987 75307 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :renaming it to echoline.b93 in a few minutes
< 1738347067 561529 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :there: https://lykaina.sdf.org/esolangs/echoline.b93
< 1738347228 70034 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: there is a microcontroller manufacturer named Microchip who attempted (maybe still attempts, I haven't checked on them in a while) to document the entirety of the behaviour of their microcontrollers, including behaviour that might seem useless or invariant-breaking; I think this may have been intended for demoscene-like eking out of the entire power of the chips, but it also works quite well as an attempt to avoid Hyrum's Law
< 1738347278 127618 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(the main thing that had to be left undefined was behaviour in undervoltage situations, but even then the chips had optional undervoltage detection that would turn them off when undervolted and reboot them when they had enough voltage to operate again)
< 1738347342 295486 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I wonder if they include the radio topology! I'll let you know if I find the paper; there's a great peer-reviewed writeup of learning an FPGA circuit according to its inputs and outputs, and the learned circuits display radio self-interference which appears to be essential to their correctness.
< 1738347343 129402 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I do like the approach of "if you were considering relying on undocumented behaviour, we documented it so you can rely on it safely", although of course that approach generally works only because microcontrollers aren't really updated at all
< 1738347386 607737 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: if that's the paper I'm thinking of, the machine-learning had been set a task that was impossible under normal invariants (distinguishing between two square waves of different frequencies with no other timing source)
< 1738347397 360665 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :There's an entire part of machine learning, "specification gaming", which studies the edge of the specification at its implementation. Closely related to weird machines, as you might guess. I had to learn this stuff at Google just to manage Web traffic.
< 1738347411 430569 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so it's not surprising that it evolved something invariant-breaking to solve the task
< 1738347446 854439 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I suspect that if the task were possible with normal digital logic, the evolver would have solved it that way
< 1738347492 842874 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(that said, I imagine the researchers were expecting it to evolve a timing source, like the "seven NOT gates connected in a cycle" example that I was taught at university)
< 1738347520 501882 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Only if "normal" also means "simple", "cheap", or some other concrete metric which admits a comparison. Evolution just...doesn't care about "normal", "readable", "debuggable", etc. (I know you know this. But Secunda has to say certain things so that Prima has a path.)
< 1738347530 315418 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1738347707 876745 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: well, in this case I would define normal digital logic as a circuit that damps analog effects, in order to prevent analog variations having any long-term effect on the state of the circuit (i.e. if you change the voltage of a wire at a given point in time by, say, 1V, then after waiting sufficiently many seconds all wires will be within, say, 0.1V of where they would have been without the change) – when designing digital circuits engineers normally 
< 1738347709 312943 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :design them like that because it makes them much easier to reason about
< 1738347727 416688 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and thus an approach that amplifies the analog effects rather than damping them is the "abnormal" approach to circuit design
< 1738347743 487459 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
< 1738347801 617475 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :intuitively, you would think that evolutionary algorithms might be more likely to find easier-to-reason-about circuits because it would mean that mutations have smaller effects, increasing the chance of converging on nearby solutions rather than diverging; but I don't know whether that's actually the case in practice or not
< 1738347883 340519 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(the other reason why engineers prefer solutions that damp analog effects and are easy to reason about is that they are more likely to be reusable in other contexts, where the analog situation might be different)
< 1738348056 436694 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :my befunge-93 interpreter does I/O over a serial interface. the REPL interface instead outputs a ton of debug data.
< 1738348063 964414 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1738348093 607851 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
< 1738348182 322253 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: The other day I watched a video which credited you with realizing that certain NES games have intra-frame logic which can be provoked with unreasonably fast inputs. The other day I also showed my friends a video with very long clarinets, demonstrating how pitches smoothly become beats at low Hz.
< 1738348222 312020 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: yes, it was me who realised that, although it was other people who made use of that fact to do interesting things like completing SMB3 in less than a second
< 1738348238 692661 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think that if we try to establish a sense of normality or expectation, we inadvertently set up implicit domains (in Hz, in these cases) which leave us blind to the full capabilities of the machine.
< 1738348257 289860 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it is a fun feeling to reason out the existence of a glitch in a game, without anyoen actually encountering it
< 1738348336 297497 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I used to play drums. Some drums, despite being *played* at low Hz, will *resonate* at high Hz, and thus they sometimes must be tuned. In extreme cases, like kettledrums/timpani, both frequencies are changing simultaneously.
< 1738348372 477937 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think it usually makes engineering sense to not use the full capabilities of the machine, especially if there are any chances the same code might need to be reused on other machines – generally speaking being able to reuse code is an advantage, both for maintainability and for development cost
< 1738348392 761810 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it can be fun to do the things that don't make engineering sense, sometimes
< 1738348413 96167 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I am disappointed at how few NES games beam-race, for example
< 1738348457 212 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :ever hear of the NES port of Elite?
< 1738348461 31825 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sure! But it does raise something of a dilemma. Knowing that weird machines exist, we must either say that the code changes behavior from one machine to another (to prevent weirdness) or that the code is invariant over some abstract machine. But in the latter case, we now have weirdness from the embedding of the abstract machine into each particular target, and the embeddings can't have the same (lack of?) weirdness since we assumed that we're por
< 1738348461 158775 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ting.
< 1738348514 528626 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :So if we insist that our code is portable then we doom ourselves to an eternal parade of weird implementations of it.
< 1738348624 928908 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :one project that I am slowly not working on (I would like to work on it, but don't have the mental energy) is a greatest-common-divisor of practical programming languages – the aim being that everything it supports maps either directly or via monomorphisation into a very large range of practical programming languages, even those which have limitations
< 1738348659 158340 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :part of the idea being to improve the compiler's idea of what the program is doing, allowing for better optimisations
< 1738348672 659539 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Or, rephrasing for the initial problem, if we insist that requests to esolangs.org are always adhering to portable standards-compliant HTTP, then we doom ourselves to an eternal parade of weird scrapers who will do everything they can to exploit that portability and compliance.
< 1738348690 963603 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but the main interest to me is to see which language features I can omit and still have a usable language
< 1738348710 587233 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :e.g. how much of an obstacle to the programmer is it if data can't be moved (in the C++/Rust sense) at all?
< 1738348738 328736 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: I am not sure what sense of "insist" you mean there?
< 1738348763 241865 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :is it along the lines of "assume that" or along the lines of "reject if not"?
< 1738348790 893712 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: In the assumptive sense. My entire point is that, when we sit down at the machine, any sort of expectations we set up are going to fundamentally limit our view so that we aren't seeing the machine's full range of behaviors.
< 1738348851 8355 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: ah right – my view was more along the lines of "we can assume that legitimate connections are probably going to be portable standards-compliant HTTP, so noticing the ones that aren't may be a way to discover the illegitimate ones"
< 1738348863 837108 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I first learned this via reading Pirsig, a philosopher from the USA who talked about the way that humans make judgments about reality. He once was employed to document a Fortran implementation, and found that folks had the whole monks-and-elephant experience when working with machines.
< 1738348934 724678 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Ah, okay, I see. Yeah, I think working at Google ruined me on that; I don't really expect good behavior on port 80 even from well-meaning folks who just want to GET an HTML page. But otherwise I think we're pretty well-aligned.
< 1738349010 529156 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it is basically impossible to run a mailserver without being fully aware of the sort of nonsense that is likely to come from malicious actors, and occasionally well-meaning actors too
< 1738349053 468637 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh meatballs, operating email is awful. Truly the worst task out there. I've outsourced it for decades and refuse to do it. At this point email is more like a cultural institution than a technical standard.
< 1738349065 68957 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there is a check that some mailservers use, that any email they receive must be from an IP address whose forward and reverse DNS are consistent with each other – but those servers have discovered that it occasionally somehow rejects legitimate emails they want to receive
< 1738349070 166324 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Although I did think that JMAP was pretty cool, and I hear that it's gaining traction.
< 1738349088 405608 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :in my opinion, http nonsense is partly why gemini (not google gemini) exists and gopher still exists.
< 1738349143 965640 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :my mailserver does have a check that the reverse DNS is set to something, and will reject emails from IPs with no reverse DNS at all
< 1738349154 479592 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :somehow this manages to block around 50% of spam by itself
< 1738349180 340975 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :my guess is that spammers often don't have much choice about what IP they're using
< 1738349191 465397 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Lykaina: Yeah, for sure. It's interesting to me to see the differences in design between Gopher, which predated HTTP and was purpose-built to serve university students, vs Gemini's reactionary approach.
< 1738349208 508887 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(that said, it is probably redundant with "known not to be a mailserver" DNSBL checks, although it does save effort in making the check in the first place)
< 1738349264 167930 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the other surprising thing is just how much trivially blockable spam there is – the spam that even gets as far as the spam filter is a very small fraction of the total
< 1738349273 490255 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it is unclear who those spammers are targeting, if anyone
< 1738349533 821414 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Some of it is just lowest-tier spamming in certain parts of the world where IT culture isn't as developed but email access is common. My personal theory is that DAOs started manifesting in the late 1990s, not the late 2010s, and some spammers are literally Perl scripts running on forgotten compute in a basement with no accounting.
< 1738349633 301471 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think it may just be that the cost-benefit equation falls on the side of "the cost is effectively zero, and the benefit is ???"
< 1738349640 680517 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :cost-benefit to the spammers, that is
< 1738349693 169093 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Youngsters might like looking up the story of Morris' Worm, possibly the first email worm, or the later I Love You Worm, which both were very cheap to execute and relied on "living off the land" (often LOTL) by reusing tools on the infected machines instead of bundling them.
< 1738349770 198489 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :It doesn't have to have any benefit. Evolution isn't really "survival of the fittest". It's more like "survival of whatever fits" or "the better it fits, the likelier it is to survive".
< 1738349804 87907 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Niches are merely the current metagames.
< 1738349852 7724 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, I think it's a matter of semantics whether or not the Morris Worm was an email worm, but also think that that's neatly covered by the "possibly"
< 1738349852 644841 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: i thought evolution was survival of whatever survives to reproduce and reproduces the most
< 1738349904 876321 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Lykaina: Once we're in an autocatalytic environment, yes. Abiogenesis, the part of chemistry that studies how life evolved, turns out to have a fairly rich theory *before* the development of autocatalytic DNA, the so-called "RNA World".
< 1738349931 516380 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :This isn't just hypothesis, BTW; we just found "obelisks", RNA fragments that appear to have some proto-life behaviors, in humans. By accident, mostly, by analyzing existing data.
< 1738349958 847057 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :cool
< 1738349985 332771 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Lykaina: You know how, when we implement genetic algorithms, we have all of those hyperparameters that control rates of reproduction and etc.? There's evolution with fixed hyperparameters, and evolution where the hyperparameters also evolve.
< 1738350086 601331 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :So "survives to reproduce" might actually be "survives longer than some hyperparameter", which might actually be "survives longer than some statistic derived from all existing survivors", which allows for meta.
< 1738350179 685257 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Huh, that's an interesting quibble. I suppose that we call it a "worm" as a definition rather than a description?
< 1738350300 896487 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: oh, I was quibbling over the "email" part – it attacked sendmail, but IIRC not in a way that involved actually sending email
< 1738350364 129746 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Oh, that's fair. And is sendmail really even email? Like, I'm not even joking: was what people did before IMAP and POP3 actually email, or a sort of proto-email that looked more like remote-shell?
< 1738350442 2130 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I still think it's interesting, although I could agree that it's not directly making the point as well as I Love You.
< 1738350580 272962 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think that at the time, sending email happened in a way that's recognisable even nowadays, but receiving email didn't (it functioned more like "people are expected to have a shell account directly on the mailserver and read their email like that")
< 1738350778 878566 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :For email, I have my own server only for receiving, but the ISP's server is used for sending, and I had not had a problem with that so far, as far as I can tell. I do not have a matching forward and reverse DNS, and there are other reasons also why it might not match
< 1738351114 467449 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :the interpreter crashed while running the 'p' command when running the befunge-93 part of mycology
< 1738351224 550731 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :'p' can be a hard command to get right, so that seems like a plausible sort of error
< 1738351272 37199 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :How can I add comments to GitHub issues, now? They changed something and now it is not working, although I could get the existing comments to be displayed, I could not add a new one. Will the API have to be used for this purpose, now? (I have got the API to work before, at least to create a new repository, so it might still work, but then a separate program must be used for display or adding new comments.)
< 1738351288 107860 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Also, I get a 502 error when accessing esolang wiki, now)
< 1738351525 155206 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :the only thing that mycology said that wasn't good this time is: UNDEF: edge # skips column 80
< 1738351618 113006 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :it continued with another GOOD after
< 1738351630 241305 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Lykaina: UNDEF means that the specification has multiple reasonable interpretations
< 1738351639 510994 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :" Pursue work-life balance." => out of the groceries and esolangs, which one is work?
< 1738351650 510174 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if you get UNDEF rather than BAD it means that you are following a reasonable interpretation of the specification, but it is not the only reasonable interpretation of the specification
< 1738351675 226175 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there is no way to get a GOOD in such cases, so don't worry about it as long as there is no BAD
< 1738351683 827548 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :i think it works
< 1738351775 638349 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Lykaina: https://rosettacode.org/wiki/Hello_world/Text#Befunge or https://rosettacode.org/wiki/Hello_world/Newbie#Befunge
< 1738351871 720661 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I've had to make some groceries-or-esolangs decisions semi-recently, I considered the groceries as work
< 1738351889 822925 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fortunately there is usually enough time for boht
< 1738352046 336553 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: Sysadmin responsibilities are labor, and oftentimes toil as well. It's okay to put off labor sometimes.
< 1738352366 340268 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, one of the main reasons to work is to put food on the table – the more difficult part of that is obtaining the money to buy groceries with, but actually buying the groceries is also part of that
< 1738352373 953471 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :my main conclusion is that, in this case, both are work
< 1738353133 643474 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah, sure. I was raised with that sort of Biblical hate, and I try not to bring it into communities, particularly communities which aren't moving around any money.
< 1738353667 999438 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :" limiting old page revisions and diffs to logged-in users only." => if you do that, please put an exception for the Befunge page so that if that page is maliciously changed people can still find out how to pass the captcha
< 1738354168 543959 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: that must be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk_6NrDsiHM
< 1738354308 865376 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: Yep. Guess it's going around.
< 1738354463 967687 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :re: the very low clarinet note, I've done something similar myself using an oscillator that could be set to very low frequencies and a speaker, although it's less fun than doing it with an actual wind instrument
< 1738355773 264948 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's still pegged at 100% CPU, and most requests are timing out at 60s. I wonder if there's something more going on than just the number of diff requests.
< 1738355865 707900 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I see a lot of references to the Esolang:Introduce_yourself and Esolang:Sandbox pages, which are pretty gigantic (well, at least for some old versions) and probably the most expensive single requests there are.
< 1738355944 903025 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Maybe I'll try quickly blocking URLs that involve diffing two versions of those two pages, since it seems unlikely anyone would _really_ need to do that particular thing.
< 1738356265 103476 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think I have diffed Introduce Yourself, but it's true that I don't really need it, I could download the source codes and diff locally
< 1738356506 878375 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's also possible there's something more wrong going on, since there isn't *that* much traffic that it should generally be quite this overloaded.
< 1738356571 388060 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs : Maybe I'll try quickly blocking URLs that involve diffing two versions of those two pages, since it seems unlikely anyone would _really_ need to do that particular thing. ← those are actually some of the pages I diff most often, precisely because they're so large – it's helpful to get an idea of just what changed, when someone edits them
< 1738356599 342277 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I can find a workaround if needed
< 1738356639 331938 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Well, if the block seems to help, I can try to fine-tune it to be for logged-out users only.
> 1738356918 633068 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07How dare you fuck the brain14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151085&oldid=150769 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+240) 10/* computational class */
< 1738357071 898578 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if the wiki becomes healthy enough to actually perform admin actions, I could try revision-hiding the old revisions to prevent them being diffed
> 1738357083 743903 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stackfish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151086&oldid=151071 5* 03Calculus is fun 5* (+2027) 10/* Interpreter */
< 1738357086 262367 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Though I'm not 100% sure how to manage that. I don't think nginx is aware if someone's logged-in or not, unless it's implied by cookies in an easy-to-parse way. MediaWiki itself is, of course, but I don't know if it has settings on that level, I suspect it's all grouped under the "read" right.)
< 1738357122 747063 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Judging from those edits, it may be at least somewhat working again.
> 1738357159 572048 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Ractangle/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151087&oldid=150898 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-25) 10/* Stuff to continue */  I ain't putting this into the list of done esolangs nor will i try to make the syntax better
> 1738357174 312995 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 revision10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10Ais523 changed visibility of 245 revisions on page [[02Esolang:Sandbox10]]: content hidden: hide page content to prevent crawlers diffing it, placing immense load on the server
> 1738357200 589460 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 revision10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10Ais523 changed visibility of 250 revisions on page [[02Esolang:Sandbox10]]: content hidden: hide page content to prevent crawlers diffing it, placing immense load on the server
< 1738357207 659039 :chomwitt!~alex@2a02:587:7a26:9800:42b0:76ff:fe46:a5fd QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1738357214 170603 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I hope that doesn't spark the sandbox wars again. :/
< 1738357275 222357 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I was worried about that too, but I'm adding a clear reason for hiding
> 1738357299 483136 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 revision10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10Ais523 changed visibility of 249 revisions on page [[02Esolang:Sandbox10]]: content hidden: hide page content to prevent crawlers diffing it, placing immense load on the server
> 1738357305 59295 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stackfish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151088&oldid=151086 5* 03Calculus is fun 5* (+2) 10Fixed A+B example
> 1738357360 533878 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 revision10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10Ais523 changed visibility of 250 revisions on page [[02Esolang:Sandbox10]]: content hidden: hide page content to prevent crawlers diffing it, placing immense load on the server
> 1738357381 104321 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 revision10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10Ais523 changed visibility of 192 revisions on page [[02Esolang:Sandbox10]]: content hidden: hide page content to prevent crawlers diffing it, placing immense load on the server
< 1738357436 304248 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :FTR, my quick little fix was to start returning a 503 for anything where the CGI params match /diff=.*title=Esolang:(?:Sandbox|Introduce_yourself)/ so if you happen to run across that, an almost-trivial probable workaround will be to just reorder the `title=` parameter to come before the `diff=` one in the URL.
> 1738357442 963124 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 revision10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10Ais523 changed visibility of 241 revisions on page [[02Esolang:Introduce yourself10]]: content hidden: hide page content to prevent crawlers diffing it, placing immense load on the server
> 1738357456 21550 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 revision10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10Ais523 changed visibility of 250 revisions on page [[02Esolang:Introduce yourself10]]: content hidden: hide page content to prevent crawlers diffing it, placing immense load on the server
> 1738357472 64898 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 revision10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10Ais523 changed visibility of 250 revisions on page [[02Esolang:Introduce yourself10]]: content hidden: hide page content to prevent crawlers diffing it, placing immense load on the server
> 1738357485 678566 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 revision10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10Ais523 changed visibility of 250 revisions on page [[02Esolang:Introduce yourself10]]: content hidden: hide page content to prevent crawlers diffing it, placing immense load on the server
> 1738357500 190029 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 revision10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10Ais523 changed visibility of 250 revisions on page [[02Esolang:Introduce yourself10]]: content hidden: hide page content to prevent crawlers diffing it, placing immense load on the server
> 1738357522 541071 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 revision10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10Ais523 changed visibility of 250 revisions on page [[02Esolang:Introduce yourself10]]: content hidden: hide page content to prevent crawlers diffing it, placing immense load on the server
> 1738357536 470618 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 revision10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10Ais523 changed visibility of 250 revisions on page [[02Esolang:Introduce yourself10]]: content hidden: hide page content to prevent crawlers diffing it, placing immense load on the server
> 1738357550 186904 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 revision10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10Ais523 changed visibility of 250 revisions on page [[02Esolang:Introduce yourself10]]: content hidden: hide page content to prevent crawlers diffing it, placing immense load on the server
> 1738357560 132118 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stackfish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151089&oldid=151088 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-161) 10/* Interpreter */  minified the python interpreter
> 1738357564 563976 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 revision10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10Ais523 changed visibility of 250 revisions on page [[02Esolang:Introduce yourself10]]: content hidden: hide page content to prevent crawlers diffing it, placing immense load on the server
> 1738357581 785877 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 revision10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10Ais523 changed visibility of 250 revisions on page [[02Esolang:Introduce yourself10]]: content hidden: hide page content to prevent crawlers diffing it, placing immense load on the server
> 1738357597 765534 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 revision10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10Ais523 changed visibility of 250 revisions on page [[02Esolang:Introduce yourself10]]: content hidden: hide page content to prevent crawlers diffing it, placing immense load on the server
> 1738357634 766852 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/delete14]]4 revision10 02 5* 03Ais523 5*  10Ais523 changed visibility of 76 revisions on page [[02Esolang:Introduce yourself10]]: content hidden: hide page content to prevent crawlers diffing it, placing immense load on the server
< 1738357677 548357 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the quick fix might not be needed after all those revision hides – MediaWiki will reject an attempt to diff if either revision is hidden
< 1738357712 968283 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it'll probably be a faster way to reject the requests
< 1738357745 617807 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that said, the hides also cause the diff buttons to be unlinked, so this may cause the crawler to stop even attempting the requests
< 1738357811 214754 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'll comment it out and see if it breaks again.
> 1738357883 925774 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang talk:Community portal14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151090&oldid=145305 5* 03Ais523 5* (+433) 10/* 429 Too Many Requests */ an update
< 1738357885 418040 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yep, now the URL I was using for testing returns: "You cannot view this diff because one of the revisions has been deleted."
> 1738357984 171999 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Ractangle/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151091&oldid=151087 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+24) 10/* Yayimhere/4kOWO */
< 1738358037 368508 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: while logged out, I suppose? (you're an admin, I think admins can diff even through the sort of revision hide I used)
< 1738358218 509776 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah, I was just curl'ing one of the URLs in the logs.
> 1738358340 343878 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Blashyrkh/A+B-brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151092&oldid=150994 5* 03Blashyrkh 5* (-352) 10Shortened by 6 bytes (316 bytes in stripped form)
> 1738358354 723368 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Blashyrkh14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151093&oldid=150998 5* 03Blashyrkh 5* (+0) 10
> 1738358448 602930 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07A+B Problem/brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151094&oldid=151016 5* 03Blashyrkh 5* (-6) 10/* Arbitrary integers with reasonably low memory consumption (by User:Blashyrkh) */ Shortened by 6 bytes
> 1738359080 896139 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Ractangle/Sandbox14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151095&oldid=151091 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-15) 10/* Stuff to continue */
> 1738359156 522893 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Ractangle14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151096&oldid=150900 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+57) 10/* Esolangs */
< 1738359303 861572 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: if the crawlers switch to a different page, you can either hide the history yourself, or let me know so that I can do it
> 1738359323 647037 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07MarkupL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151097&oldid=150258 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-61) 10/* Hello, world! */  Who needs paragraphs
> 1738359415 475265 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 03Ractangle 5*  10moved [[02BrainofGolf10]] to [[Blainbuk]]
> 1738359455 162405 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Blainbuk14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151100&oldid=151098 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-15) 10
> 1738359483 879394 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Ractangle14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151101&oldid=151096 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-3) 10/* Esolangs */
> 1738359765 49327 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Blainbuk14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151102&oldid=151100 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-237) 10/* Commands */
> 1738359786 764621 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Blainbuk14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151103&oldid=151102 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-2) 10/* Hello, world! */
> 1738359801 406446 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Lykaina14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151104&oldid=107658 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+41) 10
> 1738359935 804390 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Fungeball14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151105&oldid=107660 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+62) 10
> 1738360850 584906 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Stackfish14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151106&oldid=151089 5* 03Calculus is fun 5* (+130) 10Added hello world
< 1738362781 554780 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :i think my befunge-93 interpreter now works
< 1738362817 275930 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :i mean, the CPython version
< 1738363206 612599 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION makes hot pockets for everyone to celebrate...

< 1738363530 450617 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ooh, what are they filled with?
< 1738363600 480880 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :trefunge instructions I guess
< 1738363621 680982 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :cheese pizza
< 1738363688 265115 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :good. but mix in a few trefunge arrows and trampolines too
< 1738363945 554129 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION considers changing the name of the program file to 'v'.

< 1738364056 666264 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :that way, a befunge file can self-execute if it starts with: #!v
< 1738365039 303149 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :i wonder if that would actually work
< 1738366027 408268 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Lykaina: you could give it a longer name that starts with v at least
> 1738366090 159611 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages (H-M)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151107&oldid=150770 5* 03Calculus is fun 5* (+47) 10/* MoreMathRPN */
< 1738366221 97713 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(or of course you could use a befunge variant that skips the first line)
> 1738366354 214453 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Factorial14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151108&oldid=150575 5* 03Calculus is fun 5* (+108) 10/* MoreMathRPN*/
< 1738366816 12273 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think there might even be "Befunge interpreter whose name starts with 'v'" on the list of ideas
< 1738366819 391483 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :at least, I know I've seen that before
> 1738366932 996454 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Factorial14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151109&oldid=151108 5* 03Calculus is fun 5* (+47) 10/* FALSE */
> 1738366955 729335 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Factorial14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151110&oldid=151109 5* 03Calculus is fun 5* (+2) 10/* FALSE */
> 1738366970 456485 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Factorial14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=151111&oldid=151110 5* 03Calculus is fun 5* (+2) 10/* MoreMathRPN */
< 1738367103 297448 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :didn't work
< 1738367138 443105 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :if only / was a mirror instruction that could turn your instruction pointer up you could just use that
< 1738367457 949605 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :>~:,25*-#v_@
< 1738367458 236920 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :^        <  
< 1738367721 309205 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :how do i put that on one line?
< 1738367946 701140 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :does unefunge even have loops?