< 1739837062 9148 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :About a discussion mentioned earlier, I think that "good ILs can easily/automatically be converted to and from a human-readable form" is better than "good ILs are human-readable". < 1739837101 92273 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :a little bit of a bug was found fixed it tho mcr17(){ exec 3>&1;(echo "$1"; cat)|sh|sh|sh >&3 2>&1 |tee /dev/stderr;exec 3>&-;} < 1739837167 962903 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think that "the compiler should be able to emit tracing information that lets you debug the compiler and verify that the IL is correct" is something separate from that, though, but also helpful. > 1739840800 487938 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07UserEdited14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152130&oldid=152107 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+348) 10 > 1739840831 875836 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07UserEdited14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152131&oldid=152130 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (-25) 10 > 1739841279 38346 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07UserEdited14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152132&oldid=152131 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (-4) 10 > 1739842610 692276 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=152133 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+122) 10Created page with "{{stub}} A Forth-inspired esolang created by [[User:Lykaina]] (that looks nothing like Forth). Currently in alpha-stage." < 1739842707 492585 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement > 1739842723 248577 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152134&oldid=152119 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+11) 10/* A */ < 1739843007 446870 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :mcr17(){ exec 3>&1;(echo "$1"; cat)|sh|sh|sh >&3 2>&1 |tee >&2;exec 3>&-;} this one works on readonly filesystems < 1739843189 701117 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :so, yeah, i'm making Afth > 1739844549 121090 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Anthonykozar/Notes14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152135&oldid=152129 5* 03Anthonykozar 5* (+23) 10/* People who make interesting languages */ Added user TuxCrafting. < 1739846188 813940 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :so, if a line equaling ':A+ sGsIg+S' is present then any time after that the line 'A+' is encountered, Afth will execute 'sGsIg+S', the addition command sequence. < 1739846286 776803 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :words are two chars, and start with capital 'A'-'F' < 1739846401 417299 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :words contain single lines, and words can not contain words < 1739846550 576021 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :lines containing only '0'-'9' and 'a'-'f' put a hexadecimal number on the stack < 1739846686 276818 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :j/J are the two "jump if tk is non-zero" < 1739846718 852166 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :j is relative, J is absolute < 1739846766 650655 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :basically a 'goto if' kinda thing < 1739846785 939471 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit < 1739846865 620300 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :there are 39 of these characters so far < 1739847192 115769 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :goto line = '_nKsJ' < 1739847230 382930 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :it will take a num from the stack and goto that line < 1739847383 42689 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :so yeah, you have to define every word before it is used < 1739847624 414597 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :564 possible words < 1739847881 547752 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :next thing i'm adding is lines starting with '"', which puts printable ascii onto the stack < 1739847961 821771 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1739848011 915814 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :where '"Hello' would add ['o','l','l','e','H'] to the top of the stack. < 1739849387 663250 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :the two ifs are z (if t == 0 then tk = 1 else tk = 0) and Z (if t > 0 then tk = 1 else tk = 0) < 1739849853 244984 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1739851506 442500 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina JOIN #esolangs Lykaina :Lykaina Wolfe > 1739851672 69649 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Anthonykozar14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152136&oldid=90589 5* 03Anthonykozar 5* (+325) 10Mentioning SCOOP and some of my other esolang ideas. Added a list of subpages. < 1739852332 928597 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1739852583 306441 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Anthonykozar14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152137&oldid=152136 5* 03Anthonykozar 5* (+76) 10Add full versions of acronyms and correct Aliba link in Subpages section. > 1739853240 597094 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Anthonykozar/SCOOP History and Design Goals14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=152138 5* 03Anthonykozar 5* (+3283) 10Removing this information from the main SCOOP page. > 1739853783 190530 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07SCOOP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152139&oldid=152105 5* 03Anthonykozar 5* (-3243) 10Moving "History and Design Goals" and "Unused Ideas" sections to a new page under my user profile. < 1739854480 556235 :slavfox!~slavfox@193.28.84.183 QUIT :Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in < 1739854884 36311 :slavfox!~slavfox@193.28.84.183 JOIN #esolangs slavfox :slavfox > 1739855185 360340 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Anthonykozar14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152140&oldid=152137 5* 03Anthonykozar 5* (+348) 10Added links to esolang-related software that I've written. < 1739856828 985681 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :now old versions of my code have stopped working < 1739856834 136877 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :doesnt make any sense < 1739856842 758624 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :now even >&2 doesnt work < 1739856853 63927 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :>&2 has always worked so far < 1739856892 988293 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Something must have changed in the environment. < 1739857168 699082 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :thats not possible < 1739857181 12822 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :it happened on both my tablet and on my laptop < 1739857185 151496 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :its back to eval I guess < 1739857570 383252 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :it doesnt seem possible that it worked in my shell for days and days and days and now it doesnt < 1739857948 221392 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :teh only explanation I can think of is my kernel changed to disallow it < 1739857964 433163 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :my chromebook might do an automatic apt update but my termux on my tablet certainly does not > 1739858151 862878 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0710 114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152141&oldid=144756 5* 03Corbin 5* (+13) 10It's a trivial BF substitution. < 1739858354 482051 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've found a couple questionable proofs of Turing-completeness via Cook's Rule 110. Do we have a systematic way of talking about these? < 1739858466 345679 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :A good example is Foreach. I can't immediately tell whether Foreach is TC just from its specification, and it's clear that Foreach is fairly expressive. The given proof shows that Foreach can iterate Rule 110. < 1739858530 108266 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/lgRPE3a0/sdfaosdfij < 1739858532 154473 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :But merely iterating Rule 110 isn't TC. What's TC is iterating Rule 110 until an arbitrary chosen effect occurs, and that has to be done relative to a specific fixed background, IIRC. < 1739858534 91860 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :mabye this < 1739858581 558514 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/YDkixojZ/sdfsdfd < 1739858619 446087 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/uATyUoK7/sdfasddgsdg < 1739861249 303727 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I made up a file format for compact case-folding tables (for character sets of 256 characters): 0x00 to 0x7F means a identity run with length 1 to 127. 0x80 to 0xBF means a difference run with length 1 to 64; it is followed by one more byte specifying what the difference is. 0xC0 to 0xFF means a manual run of length 1 to 64; it is followed by that many bytes of data. < 1739861307 60274 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina JOIN #esolangs Lykaina :Lykaina Wolfe < 1739862195 13591 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://lykaina.sdf.org/afth/helloworld.afth.txt < 1739862610 62867 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1739862754 768325 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :ok so < 1739862775 384674 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :>&2 is broken and allegedly never worked according to this timeline < 1739862779 139851 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs : >&2 < 1739862788 44565 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :and so the fallback is mcr17(){ (echo "$1"; cat)|sh|sh|sh;}; < 1739862800 383972 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :this can still print to stdout just fine < 1739862820 346969 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :if you want to launch a graphical program say vi the current solution is echo echo xterm vi < 1739862829 792242 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :if you dont have xterm then dtach < 1739862841 827333 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :or some otehr terminal multiplexer like tmux < 1739862850 230594 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :you may not like it but there it is > 1739866322 392263 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Nice14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152142&oldid=136438 5* 03PoptartPlungerBoi 5* (+75) 10/* Variables */ > 1739869322 766595 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03PoptartPlungerBoi 5* 10uploaded "[[02File:Nice 99bottles program.PNG10]]" > 1739869452 477623 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Nice14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152144&oldid=152142 5* 03PoptartPlungerBoi 5* (+72) 10 < 1739869998 895374 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs amby :realname > 1739873087 586397 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Krolkrol14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=152145 5* 03Krolkrol 5* (+40) 10Created page with "Edit this page if you want to talk to me" < 1739874419 634457 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas < 1739874459 414845 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :does any of you use G'MIC in command or library form? ideally can you tell me the main advantages and drawbacks compared to ImageMagick and MagickWand? < 1739874571 557312 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hmm what's that... gimmick? < 1739874595 234366 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I can google, no worries) < 1739874617 84398 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :as in https://gmic.eu/ vs https://imagemagick.org/ , I'm mostly familiar with the latter < 1739874639 540222 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I had somehow not even heard of the former. < 1739874720 435844 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(It is /relatively/ new with 8 years vs. 34 for IM) < 1739874761 463109 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :then why did they build it to apparently inherit the bad parts of ImageMagick? < 1739874793 960034 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :well I don't know for sure yet, I'm still trying to read the manuals, maybe it doesn't really inherit all the bad parts < 1739874981 422200 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1739875072 437098 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :it does the same pipeline of filters thing... is that one of the bad parts? < 1739875321 636576 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas < 1739875405 430398 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :no, the bad part seems to be the syntax, where I can't just give a literal filename to ImageMagick without it trying to interpret my string as a dwim thing with complicated syntax that may have types and filters and coordinates and expressions and may incidentally also be a filename if I'm lucky < 1739875425 102794 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but maybe G'MIC has some way around this, and I just didn't get to that part yet in the docs < 1739875697 541229 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think if you want to get ImageMagick or even MagickWand to open an arbitrary file then you have to do the open call yourself and then pass the file descriptor number in %d format inside a magic string that also mentions the image type just to make sure that loading the file can't cause arbitrary side effects. < 1739875790 977722 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://gmic.eu/reference/input.html looks like the :filename syntax fragment doesn't overlap with the rest < 1739875824 196256 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(unless you think that http:// is a valid part of a file name) < 1739875877 157311 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :But that's documentation. I'd wonder whether https:// and maybe file:// are supported too > 1739876859 973161 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[071CP=1ICL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152146&oldid=151538 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+0) 10 < 1739876958 207834 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hi < 1739880525 858453 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name) < 1739880560 123655 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: to prove a language TC via rule 110 you need to initialise the rule 110 interpreter with a pattern consisting of an infinite repeating pattern, then a fixed section, then a different infinitely repeating pattern < 1739880592 196296 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :often it is possible to do this lazily, i.e. appending a particular pattern to each side every n cycles (I forget the value of n but it's a constant) < 1739880604 573670 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1739880648 676858 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that said, usually if a language can do rule 110 it can do other cellular automata too, and if it can take more than three inputs you can use one that's TC starting from a finitely initialised tape < 1739880667 448401 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(by "more than three inputs" I mean calculating the value of a cell based on more than three cells above it) < 1739880689 604386 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :not sure of the minimum number of inputs needed, but most such esolangs can do arbitrarily many < 1739880792 837032 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :as for why rule 110 needs the infinitely repeating background, it's definitely needed on one side because the proof implements sequential tag (thus the repeating pattern is an encoding of a cyclic tag program as sequential tag), I am not sure whether it's absolutely necessary on the other or whether that's just done for convenience > 1739881906 793494 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Anulick 5* 10New user account < 1739883251 854136 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://lykaina.sdf.org/afth/helloworld.afth.txt < 1739883255 511739 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :oops > 1739884152 92840 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152147&oldid=152133 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+116) 10Adding a Hello World example. > 1739884474 922439 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Free Esolang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152148&oldid=151539 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+143) 10 > 1739885125 717326 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152149&oldid=152147 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+180) 10Adding "Core Instructions" section. (I need to fill it in) > 1739885732 785508 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Pointing14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152150&oldid=151993 5* 03Calculus is fun 5* (+63) 10changed syntax slightly > 1739885863 269656 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Pointing14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152151&oldid=152150 5* 03Calculus is fun 5* (-44) 10/* Pointer manipulation */ > 1739885876 27983 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Pointing14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152152&oldid=152151 5* 03Calculus is fun 5* (-2) 10/* Pointer manipulation */ > 1739886226 768451 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152153&oldid=152149 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+585) 10/* Core Instructions */ saving incomplete table (WIP) > 1739887209 668001 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Pointing14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152154&oldid=152152 5* 03Calculus is fun 5* (+166) 10Added implementation > 1739887701 10490 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152155&oldid=152153 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+780) 10/* Core Instructions */ got Chars and Names down, next is Descriptions... < 1739889804 633941 :tromp!~textual@92-110-219-57.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds > 1739889926 895425 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152156&oldid=152155 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+584) 10/* Core Instructions */ finished typing core instructions < 1739890294 860556 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds > 1739890544 428710 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152157&oldid=152156 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+154) 10/* Core Instructions */ updating to match planned change > 1739892340 849032 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152158&oldid=152157 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+72) 10/* Core Instructions */ code change opened up 'a'-'f' and 'A'-'F' > 1739893445 272739 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Pointing14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152159&oldid=152154 5* 03Calculus is fun 5* (+15) 10Updated Cat < 1739893702 757403 :tromp!~textual@2a02:a210:cba:8500:de2:dd98:e9b0:1ec7 JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User > 1739893952 41687 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152160&oldid=152158 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+0) 10/* Examples */ fixed the Hello World example. > 1739894058 732902 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07UserEdited14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152161&oldid=152132 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+86) 10 > 1739894120 163139 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07UserEdited14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152162&oldid=152161 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+1) 10 > 1739894762 632872 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Free Esolang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152163&oldid=152148 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+112) 10 < 1739894774 949777 :dawids!~dawids@109.76.255.58 JOIN #esolangs * :realname > 1739894783 211393 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Free Esolang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152164&oldid=152163 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+0) 10 < 1739895040 480353 :dawids!~dawids@109.76.255.58 QUIT :Client Quit < 1739895083 251361 :Everything!~Everythin@static.208.206.21.65.clients.your-server.de JOIN #esolangs Everything :Everything < 1739896606 208306 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo JOIN #esolangs craigo :realname < 1739898885 536060 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed > 1739899776 749789 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152165&oldid=152160 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+522) 10Adding table for "Predefined Words" and fixing a typo elsewhere. > 1739901458 259175 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152166&oldid=152165 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+101) 10/* Examples */ Added "Add Two Numbers" < 1739902265 959006 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name) < 1739902420 883541 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Okay, that makes sense. What about halting conditions? Rule 110 is total, so I guess that we need to inspect the latest cells to know when to halt? > 1739902609 453888 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152167&oldid=152090 5* 03Dan422442 5* (+55) 10Introducing myself > 1739902626 203738 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Quinary Bueue14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152168&oldid=124805 5* 03Dan422442 5* (-2) 10It has been Implemented < 1739902730 380726 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: right – the halt condition of the rule 110 proof is basically a pattern of repeating stripes that clearly don't interact with each other < 1739902752 149141 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but that is hard to detect from inside a rule 110 simulator unless it's pretty high-level > 1739903047 95629 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152169&oldid=152166 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+170) 10/* Core Instructions */ added 'e' and 'E' < 1739903121 778867 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :actually, I think it might simplify down to "the same" state appearing twice (translated but otherwise identical) which is quite easy to objectively define < 1739903127 633942 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but not necessarily easy to detect > 1739903355 792714 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Varia14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=152170 5* 03 5* (+521) 10Threw the framework together > 1739903629 159325 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152171&oldid=152169 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+12) 10/* Predefined Words */ clarifying something > 1739903881 675893 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152172&oldid=152171 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+103) 10/* Predefined Words */ > 1739903912 442901 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152173&oldid=152172 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+0) 10/* Add Two Numbers */ > 1739904083 184957 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152174&oldid=152173 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+0) 10/* Predefined Words */ < 1739904277 62356 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1739904319 978786 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1739904726 464189 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :i decided to be nice and add predefined words to Afth < 1739904750 22104 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :literally I/O and basic math < 1739904908 423697 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :I know it's a Forth-like under the hood, but I like to make it weird. < 1739905159 762475 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :i already have 94 possible variables < 1739905184 26227 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :but they have to be initialized in order to be used < 1739905822 41100 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :the goal is to be able to define most words in a Forth-like using (currently) 39 core&math commands and 10 extra&io commands < 1739905923 695497 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :i have 7 line-level vars, 4 of which are temporary space. < 1739906012 428233 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :2 of the latter could probably easily be removed < 1739906664 142809 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs lisbeths :lisbeths < 1739906669 241130 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :the sequence _^<<^<<^< is equivalent to t=42 < 1739906716 165719 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :hi lisbeths < 1739906736 244174 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :hello < 1739906767 900879 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :i just typed a bunch of stuff about Afth < 1739906790 678201 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :check log if you wanna see < 1739906813 755780 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :not everything is on the wiki yet < 1739907122 855102 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :you seemed like you might be interested in Afth, as it is a Forth-like at its core. < 1739907233 387694 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Is there a command with 7z or tar or other programs to specify a different path and name inside of the created archive file than the actual paths and names in the system? < 1739907436 266714 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Also, is it possible to tell tar to store invalid user IDs, that it will only be able to extract the files if you do not use the user IDs in the archive file? < 1739908129 370601 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :Lykaina: what is afth < 1739908352 403926 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :my forth-like esolang < 1739908972 262167 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :Lykaina: yeah tell me about it < 1739909048 177204 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: GNU tar supports a --transform option that can regex-substitute the filenames (the input of the regex is the file's location on disk and the output is the pathname stored in the archive) < 1739909133 136743 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in theory you could use that to give files completely arbitrary names by adding them one at a time, although it's likely for most uses that a regex will be sufficient to map the names of multiple files at once < 1739909198 293890 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :here's an online copy of the documentation: https://www.gnu.org/software/tar/manual/html_section/transform.html < 1739909202 86326 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yes, after asking the question I found that, but do not find the way to specify the mapping for each name individually, in a file that also specifies the list of which files to be included in the archive. < 1739909281 64426 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: so tar can append to an archive, so I think you just create an archive with one file and the name you want for it, then add another file using another regex, etc. < 1739909307 783607 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although you'd probably want a wrapper script to automate that process < 1739909431 6206 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :OK, that makes sense, too. Do you know if it can be made that user/group IDs can be invalid so that --same-owner will not work but --no-same-owner will work? < 1739909499 903788 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't think so, because there are no truly invalid user/group IDs < 1739909537 906154 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :65534 is frequently used as a sentinel for an invalid user/group ID but nothing technically prevents files being owned by that ID < 1739909605 436162 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I mean if the data is e.g. not a valid octal number and the user name is blank, what will tar (both GNU and other implementations) do in such a case? > 1739909685 823438 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[071114]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152175&oldid=150640 5* 03Buckets 5* (+4) 10 < 1739909925 431492 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :lisbeths: i gotta go out and do some shopping, ttyl < 1739910628 457624 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: tar: Archive contains ‘000064A’ where numeric mode_t value expected < 1739910660 522181 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :and tar tvf displays that mode as -rwsrwsrwt < 1739910666 903143 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :so I guess that's -1 < 1739910788 966851 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I mean the user ID, not the mode. < 1739910917 855686 :Everything!~Everythin@static.208.206.21.65.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1739911029 942929 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :the numeric id is displayed as 4294967295 then but maps to 0 when unpacking as root < 1739911032 929203 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION shrugs
< 1739911124 364484 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, maybe. maybe it just didn't use the numeric id for this. in any case, this is easy to test... the checksum field is the only protection against these shenanigans and it's just a sum. < 1739911246 862727 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I think it would make more sense if invalid data in the user ID and/or user name fields resulted in an error message if --same-owner is specified but is silently ignored if --no-same-owner is specified; similar should apply to other fields, if you specify switches to override them then they will be ignored and don't care if it is valid. Unfortunately, it does not work like that.) < 1739911347 601139 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :actually I guess 65535 may be an invalid value, as it's the return value on error from many uid/gid functions (well, -1 but it's traditionally a 16-bit return) < 1739911354 990928 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that would explain why 65534 was used as the sentinel > 1739911472 236088 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Varia14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152176&oldid=152170 5* 03 5* (+124) 10 > 1739912087 623484 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07XXXoYYY14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=152177 5* 03Dtp09 5* (+5449) 10page creation > 1739912120 121675 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Dtp0914]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152178&oldid=128625 5* 03Dtp09 5* (+14) 10/* esolangs i made */ > 1739912217 973771 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Buckets/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152179&oldid=152117 5* 03Buckets 5* (+22) 10 > 1739912248 752992 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Buckets/Sandbox14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152180&oldid=152179 5* 03Buckets 5* (-22) 10 < 1739912533 488657 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :zzo38: in 7z not directly. 7z can rename files in an existing archive, and you can give multiple pairs of names to rename. but I don't think it supports adding files with a different name in one pass. < 1739912824 266741 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait, a 16-bit return? I'll have to look this up, I assumed the user ID was always given as an int in the kernel interfaces, it's just that its value was restricted to 16 bits on old systems and that's what the file system represented < 1739913077 458428 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I kind-of assumed that int was 16-bit at the time < 1739913080 672671 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :``` set -e; >uid_size.c echo $'#include \n#include \n#include \n''int main(int ac, char *av[]) { printf("sizeof=%d, signed=%d,\n", (int)sizeof(uid_t), (int)(uid_t)-1); return 0; }'; gcc -Wall -O -o uid_size uid_size.c; ./uid_size < 1739913082 513778 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :sizeof=4, signed=-1, < 1739913082 951285 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but I guess it was 32 in early UNIX < 1739913099 988028 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, it's possible that it was 16-bit in very early unix, sure < 1739913628 763602 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :didn't BCPL use 32 bits for everything? although Unix may have been written in C from the start < 1739913983 494211 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :now I'm a) questioning myself but b) wondering why C even allows 16-bit int – if Unix didn't use 16-bit int early on then I'd expect C to require it as 32-bit < 1739914024 693950 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although it was a very long time after C was created before systems with short, int, and long all different became commonplace (and long is still 32 bits on Windows!) < 1739914028 780423 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm hazy about ancient unix history. as far as I understand, unix was originally written in a machine language, then later rewritten into C. that was pre-ANSI C so function arguments and return values were promoted to at least int sized, but I think that was 16-bit int. < 1739914046 842240 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so it could have been that int was always ambiguous, and short and long disambiguated < 1739914094 615757 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :"In UNIX V6 the getuid() call returned (euid << 8) + uid." – lots of manual pages < 1739914100 85262 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :8! < 1739914128 714059 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :♥ < 1739914130 619838 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Good Night < 1739914132 682473 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :getuid(2) says that on my current computer < 1739914134 746173 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :night APic < 1739914172 507857 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think C was designed to be able to work on contemporary machines of different architecutres from the start, which is why short and int were separate types even if they're normally both 16 bits wide. < 1739914232 930271 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :aha – BCPL had all types the same width, but that was originally 16-bit < 1739914242 26880 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :meaning that you were limited to 64KiB of memory because pointers were 16-bit too < 1739914273 969858 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :err, 128KiB < 1739914290 437906 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :because if everything is 16-bit the pointers only need 16-bit of granularity < 1739914383 85151 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I assume that's just for data, and code can be in a separate area < 1739914506 885983 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think that view is compatible with how BCPL was defined < 1739914512 734062 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :although I'm not sure whether or not it did that in practice < 1739914536 293675 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :C for 16-bit x86 works similarly, a pointer is treated as a pointer to code or data depending on what you do with it < 1739914701 8223 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :x86 supports ds != ss, but I'm not sure typical C implementations handle that combination < 1739914769 350811 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you could use a separate spill stack (in ss) and automatic variable stack (in ds), but that means two stack pointers so you're tying up one extra register, and that's fairly painful on 16-bit x86 which doesn't have very many of them < 1739914772 180156 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Borland C supports like six or seven different "memory models" for x86_16 DOS that differ in these details, < 1739914786 280302 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm only aware of four < 1739914795 562316 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait, no, five < 1739914816 338559 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and it also lets you override this locally by declaring a pointer as near or far or huge or segment, and has a nonstandard operator spelled :> for combining a segment with a near pointer to get a far pointer < 1739914837 675 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :16-bit versus 32-bit for code pointer and for data pointer (4 combinations), plus if they're both 32-bit, whether objects are allowed to cross 16-bit boundaries or not < 1739914876 230193 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :maybe you can do that even if the code pointers are 16-bit, that would make 6 combinations < 1739914887 340418 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but yes, there are near/far/huge overrides < 1739914913 360301 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, I remembered the extra one! it's 16-bit code and 16-bit data in the same segment < 1739914916 666666 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :no, I think the extra combination is about which segments are equal when everything is 16-bit < 1739914927 474649 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, that' < 1739914929 242888 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that < 1739914998 140501 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, my client has timestamped my "oh," message as 21:42 and your "no," message as 21:41, but displayed my message before yours causing the timestamps to be out of order (and the logs agree that my message was first) < 1739915009 353842 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm assuming this is some sort of timestamping bug > 1739916115 580973 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:I am islptng14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152181&oldid=152102 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+178) 10 > 1739916183 396202 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Tommyaweosme14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152182&oldid=152077 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+13) 10 > 1739916193 25355 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Tommyaweosme14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152183&oldid=152182 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (-13) 10 < 1739916821 200841 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity > 1739916849 739271 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07UserEdited14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152184&oldid=152162 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+404) 10 < 1739917598 910187 :tromp!~textual@2a02:a210:cba:8500:de2:dd98:e9b0:1ec7 QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… > 1739917798 830977 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152185&oldid=152134 5* 03H33T33 5* (+13) 10 < 1739919307 945213 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname > 1739920144 961580 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Buckets14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152186&oldid=152118 5* 03Buckets 5* (+17) 10 > 1739920156 227559 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152187&oldid=152185 5* 03Buckets 5* (+18) 10 > 1739920203 887962 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=152188 5* 03Buckets 5* (+705) 10Created page with " (Not .) Is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2021. {| class="wikitable" ! Commands !! Instructions |- | || +3. |- | . || -3 |- | (Line feed) || Prints the current number in ASCII. |- | || Turn to the next page. |- | || Turn to the Previous page > 1739920225 949789 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Buckets14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152189&oldid=152186 5* 03Buckets 5* (+0) 10 > 1739922899 448510 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152190&oldid=152174 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+391) 10Updated to current.