< 1740009656 926711 :esolangs!~esolangs@techne.zem.fi JOIN #esolangs esolangs :esolangs.org < 1740009656 969314 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services.libera.chat MODE #esolangs +v :esolangs < 1740009717 128284 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :`" < 1740009719 780319 :HackEso!~h@techne.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :1/1:179) Invent the game called "Sandwich - The Card Game" and "Professional Octopus of the World" (these names are just generated by randomly) \ 1234) Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use the Banach-Tarski theorem." < 1740009768 170515 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(And then they have two problems?) < 1740010079 728378 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: https://xkcd.com/804/ < 1740010080 238968 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :two problems both the same size as the original! < 1740010152 369711 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you don't need the Banach-Tarski theorem for that if the problem is an infectious disease > 1740011610 388170 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Bitchanger Busy beaver14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=152250 5* 03PkmnQ 5* (+110) 10Created page with "What was used to confirm these? -~~~~" < 1740012034 431160 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, and I guess if you have built-in integers you might as well add a bitwise-and method to them, that can help < 1740012239 909308 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname < 1740012464 663937 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :hi Sgeo < 1740012496 414018 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hi Lykaina < 1740012578 341814 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sgeo: Have you looked at https://esolangs.org/wiki/Afth lately? < 1740012591 633770 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :I haven't actually seen it before now < 1740012630 329980 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :what do you think? < 1740012858 815047 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :I wonder if the page would be a bit clearer if rearranged, introducing the concept of command groups and the initial letters table before showing any examples that use those < 1740012914 857749 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :okay < 1740012921 540172 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :i'll fix that < 1740012979 419954 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm curious about the rationale behind using tk specifically for some things. I'd wonder if that makes it more esoteric, but then again a lot of CPUs have instructions that have to be used with specific registers > 1740013013 534369 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152251&oldid=152247 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+0) 10/* Syntax */ moved things around. < 1740013045 686810 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :Are wordnum = wnum and varnum = vnum? Maybe they need to be defined and one chosen for each (e.g. using wordnum consistently, or wnum consistently) < 1740013107 283469 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :the k in tk is for kompare > 1740013210 513165 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152252&oldid=152251 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+5) 10/* Core Instructions */ fixing typo Sgeo noticed < 1740013229 748502 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :should be wordnum and varnum < 1740013328 682022 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :AFK < 1740013480 584859 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit > 1740013819 548156 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152253&oldid=152252 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+32) 10/* Initial Letters Table */ clarifying something > 1740014072 478542 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152254&oldid=152253 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+15) 10/* Jumping */ formatting change < 1740015659 397169 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :Back < 1740015909 974022 :tromp!~textual@2a02:a210:cba:8500:593d:9801:ba8:3982 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1740016490 196773 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement < 1740016547 239194 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :wb Sgeo < 1740016617 199072 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :ty > 1740016714 253761 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152255&oldid=152254 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+6) 10Fixing first line. < 1740017117 81816 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :should I put the Core Instruction list in ASCII order? < 1740017252 765073 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :Can you put some sort of sorting on the table that lets the reader of the article choose sort order? I think by category makes sense as a default but can imagine why someone would want ASCII sort < 1740017255 675790 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :If there's no better order, then sure. Oftentimes instructions come with some sort of natural grouping or relationship. < 1740017302 122543 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :the current order is a more logical one < 1740017390 172286 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Sortable_tables I don't know if the wiki supports this < 1740017426 269065 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :i'll create https://esolangs.org/wiki/Afth/ASCII-sorted or something like that < 1740017504 589435 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :and i think it's time to remove {{stub}} > 1740017595 793941 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152256&oldid=152255 5* 03Lykaina 5* (-10) 10Removing {{stub}}. > 1740019424 37261 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth/ASCII-Core14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=152257 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+3583) 10ASCII-sorted Core Instructions > 1740019663 710883 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152258&oldid=152256 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+71) 10/* Core Instructions */ Adding link to the Afth/ASCII-Core page. < 1740019682 612182 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Lykaina: Thinking like a technical writer: If somebody wanted to implement Afth, what would they need to know first? What would they read and how would they read it? It can be a useful perspective. < 1740019745 149944 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :Also, I need it too. < 1740020071 846089 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Exactly. < 1740020404 568296 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm gonna make a separate page for the examples, as I tend to deconstruct them for the programmer's benefit. That takes up a lot of space. > 1740020677 471654 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth/Examples14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=152259 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+431) 10Making separate page for Afth Examples and their deconstructions and explanations. > 1740020881 792339 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152260&oldid=152258 5* 03Lykaina 5* (-377) 10/* Examples */ Moved Examples to Afth/Examples > 1740023229 320177 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152261&oldid=152260 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+169) 10/* Initial Letters Table */ formatting fix < 1740023466 931727 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :I have an idea for [[Afth/Ascii-Core]]...why not add blank spaces for the valid chars that aren't used? < 1740023929 166989 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'll do it on my GitHub's wiki instead, as it's useful for me. > 1740025015 528242 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth/ASCII-Core14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152262&oldid=152257 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+128) 10Adding "External Links" > 1740025251 582683 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth/Examples14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152263&oldid=152259 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+106) 10Adding "External Links" > 1740025460 911436 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152264&oldid=152261 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+79) 10/* External Links */ adding link to GitHub Wiki > 1740026602 147660 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth/Examples14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152265&oldid=152263 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+125) 10/* Examples */ Added "Cat" < 1740026715 968919 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :night < 1740026734 337877 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1740028185 858050 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03TDNerd 5* 10New user account > 1740028517 673026 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152266&oldid=152210 5* 03TDNerd 5* (+180) 10TDNerd's introduction > 1740031033 582288 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth/ASCII-Core14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152267&oldid=152262 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+806) 10/* ASCII-Sorted Core Instructions */ Added space to show what is unused, something I need and others implementing the language might. > 1740031101 73954 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth/ASCII-Core14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152268&oldid=152267 5* 03Lykaina 5* (-20) 10/* External Links */ renamed link. > 1740031795 880466 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Deadman14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152269&oldid=151034 5* 03Win7HE 5* (-81) 10/* Hello world program */ < 1740032120 129920 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1740035124 121612 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com JOIN #esolangs lisbeths :lisbeths < 1740035586 538286 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1740036711 479061 :Hooloovoo!~Hooloovoo@hax0rbana.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1740036834 925678 :Hooloovoo!~Hooloovoo@hax0rbana.org JOIN #esolangs hooloovoo :Hooloovoo > 1740037455 489052 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ti!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152270&oldid=150415 5* 0347 5* (+65) 10/* Implementations */ < 1740037773 916865 :Hooloovoo!~Hooloovoo@hax0rbana.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1740037853 99077 :Hooloovoo!~Hooloovoo@hax0rbana.org JOIN #esolangs hooloovoo :Hooloovoo > 1740037912 492991 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07+*-14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152271&oldid=145718 5* 0347 5* (+255) 10/* External resources */ > 1740038041 711470 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07614]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152272&oldid=149624 5* 0347 5* (+132) 10/* Online interpreters */ < 1740039701 177090 :Hooloovoo!~Hooloovoo@hax0rbana.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1740040856 934637 :Hooloovoo!~Hooloovoo@hax0rbana.org JOIN #esolangs hooloovoo :Hooloovoo < 1740041192 984975 :Hooloovoo!~Hooloovoo@hax0rbana.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds > 1740041833 262452 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Pointing14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152273&oldid=152159 5* 03Calculus is fun 5* (-624) 10removed linked list < 1740042076 74991 :Guest2975!Ae@linux.touz.org NICK :Ae_ < 1740042352 294344 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine < 1740042500 642516 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1740042609 36961 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: so I realized quantum computers are like big prolog machines. they test every possible scenario < 1740042619 861720 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :so the idea of prolog and the idea of quantum computers fit together like a glove > 1740044062 376231 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Pointing14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152274&oldid=152273 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+61) 10 > 1740044092 75815 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07MoreMathRPN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152275&oldid=151562 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+44) 10 > 1740044164 464352 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Fun Video Game14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152276&oldid=151365 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+10) 10/* BASE */ > 1740044263 197727 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Fun Video Game14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152277&oldid=152276 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+2) 10/* akdrfsbathnede knem */ < 1740044391 46352 :Hooloovoo!~Hooloovoo@hax0rbana.org JOIN #esolangs hooloovoo :Hooloovoo > 1740044558 277355 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Array?14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152278&oldid=151546 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+191) 10 > 1740044589 155417 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Array?14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152279&oldid=152278 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-6) 10 > 1740044659 469801 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Array?14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152280&oldid=152279 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+33) 10 < 1740045011 70440 :Hooloovoo!~Hooloovoo@hax0rbana.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1740045110 356197 :Hooloovoo!~Hooloovoo@hax0rbana.org JOIN #esolangs hooloovoo :Hooloovoo > 1740045527 788333 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Array?14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152281&oldid=152280 5* 0347 5* (+27) 10 < 1740045965 960301 :Hooloovoo!~Hooloovoo@hax0rbana.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1740046124 381751 :Hooloovoo!~Hooloovoo@hax0rbana.org JOIN #esolangs hooloovoo :Hooloovoo < 1740046279 209186 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: it seems to me that the first problem is reducing prolog down to its grammatical essence. and then to take that language and redesign it to be a child on an evolutionary tree of languages designed to be sent into a jit < 1740046292 729790 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :i say that minkanren is along the grammatical path of evolution for prolog < 1740046312 562894 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com PRIVMSG #esolangs :java is an ancient example of something along the path of evolution for a jitted language < 1740046769 438216 :Hooloovoo!~Hooloovoo@hax0rbana.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1740046907 95856 :Hooloovoo!~Hooloovoo@hax0rbana.org JOIN #esolangs hooloovoo :Hooloovoo < 1740047573 115871 :Hooloovoo!~Hooloovoo@hax0rbana.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1740047724 318088 :Hooloovoo!~Hooloovoo@hax0rbana.org JOIN #esolangs hooloovoo :Hooloovoo < 1740048387 289413 :Hooloovoo!~Hooloovoo@hax0rbana.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1740048529 386445 :Hooloovoo!~Hooloovoo@hax0rbana.org JOIN #esolangs hooloovoo :Hooloovoo > 1740048624 682716 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bitchanger Busy beaver14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152282&oldid=152212 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (-156) 10Found a mistake in my generating code > 1740048700 322606 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bitchanger Busy beaver14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152283&oldid=152282 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (+0) 10 < 1740049332 443149 :Hooloovoo!~Hooloovoo@hax0rbana.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1740049436 924289 :Hooloovoo!~Hooloovoo@hax0rbana.org JOIN #esolangs hooloovoo :Hooloovoo < 1740050352 439456 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs amby :realname > 1740050835 517182 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07StormLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152284&oldid=152057 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+455) 10 > 1740051186 777905 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BFInfinity14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152285&oldid=148566 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+915) 10 < 1740051924 449910 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina JOIN #esolangs Lykaina :Lykaina Wolfe > 1740052517 179487 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Luna 5* 10New user account > 1740053269 506279 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152286&oldid=152266 5* 03Luna 5* (+116) 10introducing myself > 1740053305 651859 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152287&oldid=152286 5* 03Luna 5* (+0) 10fixed typo in my introduction > 1740055342 600936 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Muriel14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152288&oldid=150186 5* 03Luna 5* (+3) 10fixed missing preposition < 1740055495 620316 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas > 1740055720 828097 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Muriel14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152289&oldid=152288 5* 03Luna 5* (+1) 10 < 1740059511 316026 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1740060056 375736 :FreeFull!~freefull@79.186.205.160.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl QUIT : < 1740061402 852199 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :hi < 1740061783 621104 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas < 1740061808 973508 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :hi wib_jonas < 1740061973 350057 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I have a question about the zlib compression format. Is it possible to add padding near the end of a zlib stream, as in make the compressed stream longer in a way that doesn't change the decompressed stream? Is it possible to add padding with length of any given number of bytes above some small minimum size? < 1740062078 642731 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'll try to read https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc1951 but I figured someone here probably already knows. < 1740062087 759941 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :.zip stores data at the end of the file < 1740062115 975657 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :i know that much < 1740062150 80196 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :zip or jpeg doesn't help me, I'd like zlib specifically < 1740062212 979077 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :zlib is gzip without the gzip headers, not zip/pkzip < 1740062241 705325 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :zlib = deflate < 1740062276 867034 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, you can concatenate a non-animated .gif and a .zip/.jar. < 1740062283 469786 :tromp!~textual@2a02:a210:cba:8500:e8ac:89f5:f63a:62db JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1740062287 879485 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :no wait, sorry, I'm confused < 1740062289 411108 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :but that's a hacker thing < 1740062301 865984 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :both zip and gzip are wrappers around the deflate/zlib format < 1740062305 55260 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :with extra headers < 1740062320 262730 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but here I'd like the raw deflate/zlib if possible < 1740062346 486657 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :sorry, i don't know...maybe someone else does < 1740062379 656963 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think there's a thing, because I remember flushing a deflate encoder adds something. But it may be a fixed-length something, so maybe not suitable for a padding of arbitrary length. < 1740062422 622685 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :This was in Go, and I remember reading this bit in the compress/flate (which does raw deflate streams) docs: "Calling Flush when there is no pending data still causes the Writer to emit a sync marker of at least 4 bytes." < 1740062455 168401 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :There's a reference in the code also to https://www.bolet.org/~pornin/deflate-flush.html which explains what that is. < 1740062477 157765 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Look up "type 0 block with empty contents" in that document.) < 1740062566 671386 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :fizzie: thanks < 1740062660 571014 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Also I believe "zlib" (the format) also has headers around a deflate stream, similar to gzip except more minimal, even if "zlib" (the library) can be used to produce raw deflate data as well. < 1740062711 414391 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I see < 1740063156 187013 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Unrelated to your question, but the thing that I needed raw deflate streams for was to make a rudimentary seekable compression format, by splitting the (uncompressed) input to ~512kiB "frames" each compressed independently, and then appending a seek table with (compressed offset, uncompressed offset) pairs at the end. < 1740063173 688525 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :There's some sort of semi-standard called "seekable ZSTD" that (I believe) does something vaguely similar, except in a manner that's transparently compatible with ZSTD decoders that don't know about it (by hiding the necessary extra data in "skippable frames" the ZSTD format has), and I tried just to use a random Go implementation of that to begin with, but it managed somehow to use tens of < 1740063175 780434 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :gigabytes of RAM when writing and threw up errors when reading. < 1740063184 749477 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :So I DIY'd it instead, and that seems to work fine. < 1740063851 509487 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :gtg < 1740063873 955195 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1740066911 924735 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname < 1740067835 949675 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1740068039 471476 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname < 1740068186 155771 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ok, so zlib is made of blocks, each can be type 0 uncompressed or type 1 compressed with the default Huffman-table or type 2 compressed with a custom Huffman-table. The uncompressed data that the blocks represent are of byte granularity, but the compressed blocks are bit granular, except that type 0 uncompressed blocks are byte aligned after the 3 < 1740068186 655623 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :bit long block header. < 1740068464 229745 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :So a type 0 (uncompressed) block is made of 3 bits, then up to 7 bits of padding for byte alignment, then 4 bytes of header that specifies the length of the uncompressed payload measured in bytes, this length can be up to 65535 bytes or up to 32767 bytes, I'm not sure which, it doesn't matter. So an uncompressed block representing no bytes in the < 1740068464 729148 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :uncompressed input can be used for padding, and this is 3 bits plus 4 bytes long, 5 bytes long if repeated. < 1740068570 82358 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1740068589 647613 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas < 1740068626 794443 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Now the type 1 or type 2 blocks Huffman-encode a number of items each of which represents a literal byte or a repeat statement or an end of block marker. A repeat statement copies a number of bytes from the 33k long window of recently seen uncompressed data, which may be from previous blocks. < 1740068661 278974 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Now the bad news is that a repeat statement always outputs at least three bytes, so you can't use it as padding without effects. < 1740068793 573113 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :The good news is that you can still use a type 1 block that contains just an end of block marker, and this is 10 bits long; or a type 2 block that contains just the description of the Huffman encoding followed by an end of block marker, which is variable length and between something like 50 to 2315 bits long, I'm not sure about either limit. < 1740068872 474234 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1740068899 133929 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :So you can add padding to a deflate stream, and it's not even hard because the representation of the padding can be precomputed as bit streams and they don't depend on the previous blocks of the zlib stream. I don't know which type is the most efficient for long padding, this would have to be tested with zlib and possibly multiple other inflate < 1740068899 634146 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :implementations. < 1740069228 772644 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Ah, they just left. < 1740069238 89147 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Summarizing note for when lisbeths returns: NP ain't BQP. < 1740070519 226298 :leah2!~leah@vuxu.org PRIVMSG #esolangs :can you prove that :p < 1740072764 138979 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :leah2: probably no, because there's a million dollar prize on it < 1740072770 742468 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :but korvo's point is valid anyway > 1740072782 233016 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Bitchanger Busy beaver14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152290&oldid=152250 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (+265) 10 < 1740072793 792816 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed < 1740072851 295617 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :leah2: What b_jonas said. But we have some good evidence that NP doesn't collapse (indeed that PH doesn't collapse) and also good evidence that BQP derandomizes under some nice still-unknown conditions. < 1740072940 560274 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :In the case to explain to lisbeths, it should be possible to simulate a poly amount of qubits in Prolog, but it'll take exponential time to actually extract an answer from a simulated quantum computation. This matches Holevo's theorem. < 1740073003 357028 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :If BQP derandomizes to BPP then we can speed up the simulation by taking e.g. real-world entropy and taking multiple trials, just like a quantum computer currently does in e.g. Shor's algorithm. < 1740073106 815359 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :...I might be a little strong here with my wording. I believe in both Exponential Time and also that hardness is confined to specific regions of instability; so hardness recursively includes a difficulty in recognizing which problems are hard. < 1740073302 112777 :leah2!~leah@vuxu.org PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes < 1740077137 623785 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1740077158 507172 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1740077565 702647 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: I think it's the other direction that's the problem with lisbeth's statement. as in the original was https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2025-02-20.html#lub which seems to say that NP is in BQP in some easy way, which is a common misconception that's still mentioned in https://scottaaronson.blog/ 's tagline/motto. < 1740077570 178843 :FreeFull!~freefull@79.186.205.160.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl JOIN #esolangs FreeFull :FreeFull < 1740077669 962139 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it's possible that I'm misinterpreting what lisbeths sayid < 1740077719 133050 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: Oh, sure. I'm gonna put a pin in the actually interesting stuff (JIT'ing Prolog) but this is a really good point for understanding. > 1740079274 253018 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07FOSMOL14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152291&oldid=152229 5* 03Aadenboy 5* (+140) 10/* Example macros */ macro info > 1740079528 839206 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07OIIAOIIA14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=152292 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+352) 10Created page with "OIIAOIIA is a [[brainfuck]] derivative that is very special. == commands == transition from... O to O + O to I - O to A ++++++++++ I to O < I to I [ I to A ] A to O . A to I , A to A > space reset == reading it == o /u/ i /i/ a /a/ /e/ == examples > 1740079558 244907 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07OIIAOIIA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152293&oldid=152292 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+2) 10/* print "a" */ < 1740079781 290490 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :It's only been a couple weeks returning to partial-evaluation literature and I'm already struck by the fact that partial evaluation in a metalanguage is so easy compared to self-application, because our object languages are deeply unpleasant and primitive. < 1740079838 612446 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :PE of Scheme, C, and Prolog are all proven self-applicable, but at too steep a psychic cost to maintain over time. < 1740079880 307302 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :PE of simple flowchart and SML-ish languages are also proven self-applicable, but we have to write all of our PE logic in these dinky little Turing tarpits. < 1740080169 526841 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I did prove some fun lemmas along the way. Suppose a language admits a syntactic monoid; the binding-time analysis (BTA) can be monoidally decomposed, and this holds up when categorified. < 1740080308 545867 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :For example, Brainfuck's got a decomposable monoid. BTA simulates a state of (cells, pointer, unconsumed input) and annotates the program according to reachable states, bottoming out when there's no more input, when everything's static, or when the pointer or current cell value become too dynamic. < 1740080364 773551 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :That's actually more sophisticated than the expected BTA from Brainfuck interpreter structure, which is usually like (cells, pointer). < 1740080480 194925 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I also found some fun folklore lemmas. PE of simply-typed LC is Jones-optimal when it includes inlining, unfolding, constant propagation, and constant simplification. That's a remarkably plausible-sounding inventory for those of us who are willing to write STLC. > 1740081293 685952 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme/sandbox 214]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=152294 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+194) 10Created page with "Wow! This is a nice looking button!" > 1740081473 402479 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme/sandbox 214]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152295&oldid=152294 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+99) 10 > 1740081481 962392 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Q-BAL14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152296&oldid=70969 5* 03Cosmikdebris 5* (+44) 10/* External resources */ archive snapshot > 1740084881 558086 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152297&oldid=152240 5* 03Buckets 5* (+100) 10 > 1740085629 953320 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152298&oldid=152297 5* 03Buckets 5* (+68) 10 > 1740086193 430392 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152299&oldid=149401 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+84) 10/* Syntax */ > 1740086226 495131 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152300&oldid=152299 5* 03Ractangle 5* (+6) 10/* Syntax */ < 1740086247 578053 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :cu > 1740086474 607388 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152301&oldid=152300 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-110) 10/* Examples */ < 1740089669 915198 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sgeo re https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2023-08.html#lX8 no photo just an anecdote, but I found further evidence that slashed letter o was historically used for handwriting in programming: https://logs.esolangs.org/libera-esolangs/2023-08.html#lX8 < 1740089804 180514 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :The anecdote is the same document I linked? Or was one of those links meant to be something else? < 1740089874 6228 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah sorry < 1740089884 451945 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :new evidence: http://www.madore.org/~david/skeets.html#skeet-20250219113239667 < 1740089972 711092 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ø.Ø < 1740090064 374812 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION writes an emulator that requires installing com0com and using Chrome
< 1740090688 429897 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina JOIN #esolangs Lykaina :Lykaina Wolfe < 1740090830 654283 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :hi > 1740092069 302482 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07WaidWmy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152302&oldid=149968 5* 03AlmostGalactic 5* (+177) 10/* Labels */ < 1740092787 411032 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hi > 1740093941 801676 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152303&oldid=152264 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+256) 10/* Syntax */ Added something about "Stacks" > 1740095554 113487 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Buckets14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152304&oldid=152223 5* 03Buckets 5* (+10) 10 > 1740095561 278700 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152305&oldid=152224 5* 03Buckets 5* (+11) 10 > 1740095575 777692 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Abba14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=152306 5* 03Buckets 5* (+536) 10Created page with "Abba is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2021. (The cell can only store 1 digit.) {| class="wikitable" ! Commands !! Instructions |- | 0-9 || + 0-9 |- | g || 'glue 1,wait until g again.' |- | c || It clears the cell. |- | o || It prints what i > 1740095877 406115 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Abba14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=152307 5* 03Buckets 5* (+203) 10/* What does 'glue 1,wait until g again.' Mean? */ new section