> 1740182479 211925 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07MoreMathRPN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152366&oldid=152275 5* 03Calculus is fun 5* (+165) 10/* Matrices */
> 1740183118 873500 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:MoreMathRPN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152367&oldid=152201 5* 03Calculus is fun 5* (+230) 10/* Questions */
> 1740183183 288492 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07MoreMathRPN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152368&oldid=152366 5* 03Calculus is fun 5* (+2) 10/* Matrices */
> 1740183295 98561 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07MoreMathRPN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152369&oldid=152368 5* 03Calculus is fun 5* (+5) 10/* Standard operations */
> 1740186873 19155 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07MoreMathRPN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152370&oldid=152369 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+42) 10
> 1740186917 145289 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07MoreMathRPN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152371&oldid=152370 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+13) 10fix
> 1740187276 78052 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:I am islptng/Draft for SLet 414]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152372&oldid=152340 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+20) 10/* Commands */
> 1740187532 327976 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:I am islptng/Draft for SLet 414]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152373&oldid=152372 5* 03I am islptng 5* (-470) 10
< 1740187829 536497 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1740188527 70581 :lisbeths!uid135845@id-135845.lymington.irccloud.com QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity
< 1740190915 585975 :lynndotpy6!~rootcanal@134.122.123.70 QUIT :Quit: bye bye
< 1740190966 442515 :lynndotpy6!~rootcanal@134.122.123.70 JOIN #esolangs lynndotpy :lynn
> 1740191593 220992 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152374&oldid=152363 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+18) 10/* E */
> 1740191773 180482 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EternalGolf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152375&oldid=152329 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+143) 10
> 1740193815 919046 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EternalGolf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152376&oldid=152375 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+520) 10
> 1740195232 967499 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BFInfinity14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152377&oldid=152285 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+48) 10
> 1740195507 351443 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07StormLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152378&oldid=152284 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+36) 10
> 1740195737 84647 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07StormLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152379&oldid=152378 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+168) 10
> 1740195784 520398 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07StormLang/Standard Libraries14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=152380 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+67) 10Created page with "{{Back|StormLang}} Currently, StormLang STL is still in discussion."
> 1740195796 138531 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07StormLang/Standard Libraries14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152381&oldid=152380 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+1) 10
> 1740195815 692750 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07StormLang14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152382&oldid=152379 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+41) 10
> 1740198145 742483 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Neoff14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=152383 5* 03RainbowDash 5* (+390) 10Created page with "this is in need of a major rewrite the code before was supposed to look like normal code but abnormal, here was the original idea: <pre> Push Caller Set Let A = 0 Comefrom 4 A++  When (A == 10){  Call } Caller Set{  A = 0  Print(A has hit 10 and has been set back 
< 1740202034 719314 :shachaf!~shachaf@user/shachaf PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: https://epicpikaguy.itch.io/sea-magic
< 1740202243 480699 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Excellent, a sequel.
> 1740203288 888261 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages (H-M)14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152384&oldid=151495 5* 03Benben 5* (+140) 10/* Legend */ add Lenguage
< 1740205232 10847 :Cale!~cale@2607:fea8:995f:f126:15c3:35a5:81ac:187c QUIT :Quit: Leaving
> 1740207015 210625 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Empty Program14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152385&oldid=151524 5* 03Benben 5* (+135) 10/* Scratch(text), Kitten3(text), Kitten4(text) */ add link of scratch blocks
> 1740207847 270923 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152386&oldid=151640 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+0) 10
> 1740208163 321686 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:99 bottles of beer14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152387&oldid=84795 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+1748) 10
> 1740208512 298212 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EternalGolf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152388&oldid=152376 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+2) 10
< 1740209440 492391 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :or a seaquel?
< 1740210792 179479 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo JOIN #esolangs craigo :realname
< 1740212660 421933 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Quit: Laa shay'a waqi'un moutlaq bale kouloun moumkine
> 1740213148 933966 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 0347 5*  10moved [[02IEO-fork10]] to [[Tryit.org]]
> 1740213148 966244 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/move14]]4 move10 02 5* 0347 5*  10moved [[02Talk:IEO-fork10]] to [[Talk:Tryit.org]]
> 1740213160 883165 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Tryit.org14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152393&oldid=152391 5* 0347 5* (-216) 10Blanked the page
> 1740213271 809433 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Tryit.org14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152394&oldid=152389 5* 0347 5* (-906) 10
> 1740213362 311869 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 overwrite10 02 5* 0347 5*  10uploaded a new version of "[[02File:IEO-fork home.png10]]"
> 1740213417 443644 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Tryit.org14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152396&oldid=152394 5* 0347 5* (+41) 10
> 1740213436 142136 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Tryit.org14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152397&oldid=152396 5* 0347 5* (+6) 10
> 1740213447 390655 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Tryit.org14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152398&oldid=152397 5* 0347 5* (+0) 10
> 1740213465 501022 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Tryit.org14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152399&oldid=152398 5* 0347 5* (+16) 10
> 1740213645 725348 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Tryit.org14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152400&oldid=152399 5* 0347 5* (+65) 10
> 1740213977 4657 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Tryit.org14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152401&oldid=152400 5* 0347 5* (+39) 10
< 1740219480 422399 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
> 1740221109 69671 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EternalGolf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152402&oldid=152388 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+473) 10
> 1740221229 399124 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Loop preventing brainfuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152403&oldid=152355 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (+26) 10
> 1740224407 900118 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Loop preventing brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152404&oldid=152403 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (+26) 10
< 1740227030 13875 :roper!~r5@121.red-81-39-58.dynamicip.rima-tde.net JOIN #esolangs roper :ro
> 1740229722 410471 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:I am islptng/Game:Nonsense14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152405&oldid=151908 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+594) 10
< 1740231630 420263 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
< 1740233226 149734 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :shachaf: Oh well, at least I've got 12 (all?) medals: https://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/seamagic.png
> 1740234437 121423 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:I am islptng/Draft for SLet 414]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152406&oldid=152373 5* 03I am islptng 5* (-651) 10/* Commands */
> 1740234588 686761 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:I am islptng/Draft for SLet 414]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152407&oldid=152406 5* 03I am islptng 5* (-123) 10/* Commands */
> 1740234682 123821 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:I am islptng/Game:Nonsense14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152408&oldid=152405 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+3) 10fix
< 1740234961 824039 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :huh, is this some new game?
< 1740234974 293745 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :06:27:14 <shachaf> int-e: https://epicpikaguy.itch.io/sea-magic
< 1740234985 299646 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(9 hours ago)
< 1740235077 537554 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :apparently "traitorous" and "treacherous" have somewhat different meanings in English and they might have different etimologies. I assumed "treacherous" was just a weird hard to remember irregular spelling for what should be "traitorous" 
< 1740235127 361641 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :a swamp can be treacherous but it lacks the freedom of will that a traitor has
< 1740235204 213685 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :they are both from latin, but from apparently two unrelated latin verbs, "trīcor" and "trādō" respectively
< 1740235340 670523 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there are solutions for that, like the Zendikons
< 1740235361 908563 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :though I think on Zendikar land has its own will even when it's not a creature
< 1740235385 325312 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and on that plane, every land is treacherous, not just swamps
< 1740235427 488769 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :wtf is... oh it's an M:tG thing
< 1740235456 991849 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, Zendikar is a plane where the land keeps changing so it's hard to make maps or explore or build anything stable
> 1740235568 395752 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07EternalGolf14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152409&oldid=152402 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+2) 10
< 1740237062 606780 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Annoying: in this font, ▐ (right half block) is actually the inverse of ▍ (left three eights block) rather than ▌ (left half block).
< 1740237139 542669 :fizzie!irc@selene.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esolangs :Not *really* a problem for my use (I'm just doing some tick marks in a TUI that I want at double the horizontal resolution, and can set foreground/background colors appropriately and use left half block exclusively, that's exactly half the character cell in this font) but it still bothers me.
< 1740238535 54132 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina JOIN #esolangs Lykaina :Lykaina Wolfe
> 1740238544 497653 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth/Examples14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152410&oldid=152365 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+532) 10/* Examples */ Added 5-Function RPN Calculator, updated Hello World.
> 1740238870 469414 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Bitchanger Busy beaver14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152411&oldid=152290 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (+238) 10
> 1740238886 963790 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Bitchanger Busy beaver14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152412&oldid=152411 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (-5) 10
< 1740239416 92296 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :was able to make a 5-function rpn calculator in Afth
> 1740239501 251484 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/upload14]]4 upload10 02 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5*  10uploaded "[[02File:Scratch progama de comer mi caca.png10]]"
> 1740239625 98113 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152414&oldid=152078 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+4) 10
> 1740240137 243701 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme/common.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152415&oldid=142976 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+91) 10
> 1740240158 759001 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme/common.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152416&oldid=152415 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (-1) 10
> 1740240169 724565 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme/common.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152417&oldid=152416 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+3) 10
< 1740240402 464703 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
> 1740240484 659007 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:OIIAOIIA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152418&oldid=152328 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+349) 10
> 1740240507 423218 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:OIIAOIIA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152419&oldid=152418 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+10) 10
> 1740240778 273421 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:OIIAOIIA14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152420&oldid=152419 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (+416) 10
< 1740240790 369750 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
> 1740240851 856057 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Tommyaweosme/common.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152421&oldid=152417 5* 03Tommyaweosme 5* (-93) 10Blanked the page
< 1740240951 163289 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
> 1740241131 322141 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152422&oldid=151143 5* 0347 5* (+4) 10/* G# */
> 1740242207 722787 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07MoreMathRPN14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152423&oldid=152371 5* 03Calculus is fun 5* (+86) 10/* Matrices */
< 1740242249 385027 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
< 1740242804 360026 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1740243103 893071 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
< 1740244302 879827 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds
< 1740244341 525896 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
> 1740245542 908464 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Bitchanger Busy beaver14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152424&oldid=152412 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (+169) 10
< 1740245556 491607 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds
< 1740245626 998443 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
> 1740245748 747246 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bitchanger Busy beaver14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152425&oldid=152283 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (+94) 10
< 1740246739 105084 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
> 1740246765 667586 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Bitchanger Busy beaver14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152426&oldid=152425 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (+0) 10
< 1740247131 184342 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
< 1740251973 631510 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:f84c:3945:8bda:df26 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic
< 1740251989 424127 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:f84c:3945:8bda:df26 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hi :-)
< 1740252087 671256 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hi impomatic
< 1740252150 159158 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:f84c:3945:8bda:df26 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Does anyone know the history of Fungewars, or have an earlier version?  It was discussed quite a bit on the Befunge mailing list in the late 90s - other names suggested were Befunge Warriors and Funge Gladiators. https://esolangs.org/wiki/Fungewars
< 1740252156 18116 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:f84c:3945:8bda:df26 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hi ais523
< 1740252219 658540 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think Fungewars had mostly/entirely died down by the point I became interested in esolangs, and I've been here for much longer than most in this channel
< 1740252282 120207 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :because I don't recall discussion about it, and the dates on the linked pages are very old
< 1740252328 785088 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think it probably even predates the wiki?
< 1740252356 585350 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so you'd have to contact people who were active at that time
< 1740252384 723706 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:f84c:3945:8bda:df26 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I remember Befunge from the 90s, but wasn't too interesthed at that point.  I wrote a few programs in Brainfuck though.
< 1740252571 997245 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:f84c:3945:8bda:df26 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The date on Fungewars 0.4.5 is December 2001, but the idea was being discussed 3-4 years before on the mailing list (I found the Befunge Mailing List archive).
< 1740252717 483228 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the wiki is from 2005
< 1740252755 130186 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think my interest in esolangs started in 2004 or so
< 1740252781 969172 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so it's before the period I remember, and you'll have to track down some people who were around the esolangs community before I was
< 1740253036 725631 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:f84c:3945:8bda:df26 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Thanks, I'll try Chris Pressey, he might remember something.
< 1740253519 987184 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :i'm having problems with Afth, with something I haven't pushed yet to github
< 1740253605 88240 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :just pushed it
< 1740253643 540674 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :examples/calc.afth works, but examples/rpncalc.afth doesn't.
< 1740253729 307830 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :the wiki page refers to 0.1, this is 0.2.
< 1740253744 572575 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :i need help
< 1740253838 89340 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Okay. What doesn't work? (The other question I usually start with is "What have you tried?" which you already answered.)
< 1740253942 285025 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :the example file rpncalc.afth
< 1740253968 686301 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, only addition works in it
< 1740253991 888514 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's based on calc.afth, with everything works in
< 1740254023 22214 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :brb
< 1740254463 355955 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :shachaf: Yay. "Max rank reached!"
< 1740254473 809307 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :back
< 1740254483 620751 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :had to use bathroom
< 1740254529 257977 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :the word definitions are in dict.afth
< 1740254555 972366 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :that's the main difference between 0.1 and 0.2
< 1740254583 481593 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :0.1 had a tiny built-in dictionary
< 1740254604 904756 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :i moved it to an external file
< 1740254615 208720 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: Nice. I only got through the first few levels.
< 1740254682 430141 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Lykaina: It might be time to build some debugging tools. You can either go "white-box" or "clear-box", debugging by accessing the internals of the interpreter, or you could go "black-box" by treating the interpreter as opaque and writing acceptance tests in Afth.
< 1740254738 543874 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:f84c:3945:8bda:df26 QUIT :Quit: Client closed
< 1740254738 612781 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Either way, don't worry about complete coverage yet. You have a git commit where everything worked, and so in the worst case, you can redo all of the work from 0.1 to 0.2. Yes, it's laborious, but sometimes it's the only way to find regressions.
< 1740254739 552922 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: Some of the thinking from Bee Magic carries over, though it's quite a different game overall.
< 1740254748 630123 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:f84c:3945:8bda:df26 JOIN #esolangs * :[https://web.libera.chat] impomatic
> 1740254772 896365 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:47/common.css14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=152427 5* 0347 5* (+91) 10Created page with "* {background-color:black !important; color:white !important;} a {color:purple !important;}"
< 1740254776 808201 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :rpncalc.afth never worked
< 1740254787 892651 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: Also I've done nothing else today :P
< 1740254796 72360 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :As you get used to writing smaller commits, tools like git-bisect can become *very* useful. I've bisected Linux and Mesa3D before, and it's actually a little fun since it only takes like five iterations.
< 1740254800 565514 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :because i wrote it after 0.2
> 1740254839 446198 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:47/common.css14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152428&oldid=152427 5* 0347 5* (-63) 10
< 1740254840 152138 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: Good times. Some levels were about as difficult as Bee Magic for me, but some levels were much tougher; I confess that I can't figure out how to use Slide other than to softlock.
< 1740254889 232561 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Lykaina: Oh! Then there's a third possibility: that rpncalc.afth has a bug!
< 1740254941 338999 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: Yeah, the sliding gave me some trouble too.
< 1740254941 867167 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :then why does calc.afth work before the two diverge?
> 1740254977 209501 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07G Sharp14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152429&oldid=151337 5* 0347 5* (+7) 10
< 1740254978 880454 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Well, presumably the divergence introduced a bug.
< 1740255026 486827 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: bisecting Linux sounds painful just because of the compile times
> 1740255030 131511 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07G Sharp14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152430&oldid=152429 5* 0347 5* (+14) 10/* Errors */
< 1740255063 214186 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm… in a repository that uses lots of parallel commits and does big merges of them, do bisections merge together half the commits to more quickly narrow down which of the branches the bug occurred on?
< 1740255120 648643 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: The trick is to keep a git checkout of the kernel and build-and-boot from that one directory, even if using Apt, RPM, Nix, Portage, etc. for the rest of the system. For subsystems that can be 100% compiled as modules, like DRM/DRI, the build is quite incremental and spends most of its time bzip'ing the image.
> 1740255133 446471 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Hello world program in esoteric languages (D-G)14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152431&oldid=147629 5* 0347 5* (-8) 10/* G# */
< 1740255164 82373 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: ah, I see, you aren't bisecting the entire kernel but just the files that seem relevant
< 1740255172 939702 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Mesa3D is the one that takes a long time to build, especially since they now use C++.
< 1740255231 174056 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've done bisections before but don't really enjoy them, they're sufficiently time-consuming that I'd prefer to grep commit messages or reason out the bug instead
< 1740255232 779428 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: Oh yeah, I'd just be diagnosing hardlocks in one piece of hardware. The worst part would be when the boot is fine but a userspace program provokes the hardlock; minutes of booting into X11 per test.
< 1740255363 821792 :roper!~r5@121.red-81-39-58.dynamicip.rima-tde.net QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1740255366 372483 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
< 1740255406 895004 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :What's cool is that sometimes git-bisect does blame Somebody Else's Code, and usually it's right to do so! Counterfactual reasoning really does work for finding proximate causes of bugs, even if the problem is that somebody else refactored something and changed your invariants.
< 1740255435 65540 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Lykaina: How are things? Do you need more eyes?
< 1740255596 436760 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :let me try rewriting rpncalc.afth to use relative jumps only instead of both relative and absolute
< 1740255616 213643 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: this is of course an argument for programming languages being better at expressing invariants – they have moved slowly in that direction over time but still aren't really near what they'd need to manage
< 1740255648 429225 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :even null-safety wasn't emphasised much until recently, even in relatively high-level languages
< 1740255674 627064 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the functional languages got there before the imperative ones, I think
< 1740255814 309188 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yep. The trick is having a subobject classifier. In CoC or whatever, that's a type of Propositions. It's not something that imperative languages usually reify or conceptualize.
< 1740255894 182528 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :In Cammy, the subobject classifier is 2, implying that everything is total-computable and discrete. Hoare logic could be described for an arbitrary f : X → Y in terms of pre- and post-conditions with types X → 2 and Y → 2.
< 1740255920 465208 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I haven't actually wired all of it up, but there's an obvious route to property-based testing and proofs of invariants and arbitrary properties.
< 1740255967 557061 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it strikes me that even something as simple as "assert on set; assert_unchecked on get" would, in addition to catching bugs, quite possibly improve the performance of the typical imperative program
< 1740255980 674805 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :because the asserts on set would usually get optimised out and the asserts on get might be useful
< 1740256044 156858 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yep. In RPython, checked bounds on arrays are not only usually JIT'd out, but repurposed into JIT guards which jump to not-yet-compiled code on failure. And if a guard fails enough, then its failure gets traced and JIT'd too.
< 1740256122 552473 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :In order to make that practical, there's also guards for when exceptions are (not) raised, etc. Every check and assertion is turned into an optimization opportunity.
< 1740256676 281559 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :i think i may have found where the problem is, but not why the problem is
< 1740256787 805149 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Nice. It might be the case that you can rewrite the code to make it simpler without having to understand the problem. Or it might be the case that the problem is small and can be repaired with surgery.
< 1740256818 852017 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :problem is when there are two jump instructions on the same line
< 1740257102 51790 :Lykaina!~lykaina@user/lykaina PRIVMSG #esolangs :pushed the current code
> 1740258150 492426 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152432&oldid=152334 5* 03Lykaina 5* (-904) 10Removing "Predefined words" section, as there no longer are any.
> 1740258573 113508 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Mierda14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152433&oldid=82388 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (+88) 10Rectified the Hello, World! program and introduced two further examples in a repeating cat program and a truth-machine.
> 1740258628 263013 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Mierda14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152434&oldid=152433 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (+189) 10Added a hyperlink to my implementation of the Mierda programming language on GitHub and supplemented the Implemented category tag.
> 1740258865 990746 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth/Examples14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152435&oldid=152410 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+646) 10Updating for current version.
> 1740258928 422718 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Mierda14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152436&oldid=152434 5* 03Kaveh Yousefi 5* (+8) 10Introduced line breaks in two of the example programs for reasons of aesthetics.
> 1740259039 994715 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152437&oldid=152432 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+95) 10/* Jumping */ Adding notice about bug.
> 1740259406 779017 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Afth/Examples14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152438&oldid=152435 5* 03Lykaina 5* (+96) 10/* RPN Calculator */ added a note on how to use.
> 1740260143 681775 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Bitchanger Busy beaver14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152439&oldid=152424 5* 03Int-e 5* (+302) 10Question about accounting for loops.
> 1740260240 599382 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07MoreMathRPN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152440&oldid=152423 5* 03Calculus is fun 5* (+1) 10/* Implicit plotter */
> 1740260282 371449 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Bitchanger Busy beaver14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152441&oldid=152439 5* 03Int-e 5* (+1) 10indent a reply for better readability
> 1740260286 846366 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07MoreMathRPN14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152442&oldid=152440 5* 03Calculus is fun 5* (+1) 10/* Infinity */
> 1740260365 153004 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152443&oldid=152374 5* 03Buckets 5* (+14) 10
> 1740260377 877013 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Buckets14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152444&oldid=152362 5* 03Buckets 5* (+12) 10
> 1740260430 104900 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07V14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=152445 5* 03Buckets 5* (+1264) 10Created page with "V is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2020. (The 2D grid is of A space of 16 by 16 Containing all extended ASCII in order.) {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- |  || Move 1 down. |- |  || Move 1 right. |- | <sup>n</sup> || Set 
> 1740260593 654914 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07A+B Problem14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152446&oldid=150810 5* 03Ractangle 5* (-57) 10/* ! */
< 1740260770 621194 :impomatic!~impomatic@2a00:23c7:5fc9:5401:f84c:3945:8bda:df26 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1740260849 175880 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: Hmm, when counting Brainfuck steps for BB purposes, do you have ] check the loop condition, or does it jump back to the [? I guess the latter would make +[-] take 5 steps so BBB(4)=4 answers that question...
< 1740260931 625223 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: Oh, I don't recall how it's defined. I'd guess that your reasoning is right. I normally think of Brainfuck as only checking with the [ operation, and the ] is mere syntax; I know that that's not always how it's implemented though.
< 1740260982 181665 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I should clarify that I didn't define the BBB() function but lifted it from one of our myriad Brainfuck sub-pages.
< 1740261008 744740 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Either convention is fine of course, it just doesn't seem to be specified rigorously enough
< 1740261050 120696 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(when looking at http://bbgauge.info/brainfuck.html)
< 1740261117 573563 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yeah. I should tighten up that entire page. TBH I should write a script to generate/check the first few values of those tables too.
< 1740261119 56786 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :
ACTION lazy

< 1740261154 209639 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Still, I owe the community to do a good job. I'll put it on my task list.
> 1740261266 954591 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Bitchanger Busy beaver14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152447&oldid=152441 5* 03Int-e 5* (+107) 10clarifying the convention would help too.
> 1740263111 862598 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:RainbowDash14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152448&oldid=145963 5* 03RainbowDash 5* (+2) 10
> 1740263206 573127 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:RainbowDash14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152449&oldid=152448 5* 03RainbowDash 5* (-1) 10/* Esolangs I've made. */
< 1740264082 953156 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: so I think the most common way to count cycles in BF is for the loop-test-and-jump to be one cycle regardless of whether the test indicates a jump or no jump, and regardless of how it's split up between the [ and ]
< 1740264114 353930 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it's commonly formulated as "[ jumps to after the ] if the cell is 0; ] jumps to after the [ if the cell is non-0" which is nicely symmetrical
< 1740264145 74203 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(BF Joust, where the timing matters, specifically mandates timing it like that – other implementations often don't specify it because it isn't observable)
< 1740264255 613874 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm… suppose you have an entirely unsynchronized multithreaded BF, with the threads sharing a tape but not the tape pointer, and instructions running in an arbitrary sequence (not simultaneously, but there's no constraint on how many times one thread can act before the other one does) – is it possible to write a 100% reliable mutex or semaphore, or will there always be some timing combination that defeats it?
< 1740264326 232851 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there are communication primitives you can write, like "wait for the other thread to reach a certain point in its computation" and message channels, but you can't obviously build mutexes out of those
> 1740264400 502333 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07ASCII Code14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152450&oldid=152050 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (-1) 10
< 1740264558 223988 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I don't think you can do that with vanilla brainfuck, you need to add some rule for it, either a new command, or defining something that used to be undefined behavior like some underflow/overflow
< 1740264594 714282 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I can't think of a way to do it, but this is the sort of thing where it might be hard to prove that it's impossible
< 1740264744 220629 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :actually, I have a promising start of an approach but it doesn't solve the problem on its own: thread 1 locks a mutex by checking it's zero, incrementing it, then checking it's zero – thread 2 does the same but decrements
< 1740264797 93882 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't think there's any way for both threads to think they've locked it, but this doesn't solve the problem of recovering if there's contention, because if one thread could discover that the other has tried to lock it without discovering whether the other thread knows about the contention or whether it took the lock
< 1740264817 874231 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :* checking it's zero, incrementing it, then checking it's nonzero
> 1740265415 970881 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Fish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152451&oldid=148427 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+165) 10/* Hello, world! */
> 1740265911 477514 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Fish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152452&oldid=152451 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+11) 10
< 1740266371 984987 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, that might work
> 1740268696 81251 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Fish14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=152453&oldid=152452 5* 03MihaiEso 5* (+235) 10/* Hello, world! */