00:11:55 <esolangs> [[Decorat]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=153651 * I am islptng * (+1301) Created page with "<b>Decorat</b> is a type of assembly language designed by islptng. == Syntax == Each line is: keyword argument For example: put 15 To define a label, write labelname: put 15 To use a label, enclose it in <> : jnz <labelname> Comment, like other assembly, is a
00:20:41 <esolangs> [[Decorat]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=153652&oldid=153651 * I am islptng * (+368)
00:21:22 <esolangs> [[Decorat]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=153653&oldid=153652 * I am islptng * (+11)
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05:28:41 <esolangs> [[User talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=153654&oldid=153524 * * (+157) /* Bad news */
05:37:21 <esolangs> [[StormScript]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=153655&oldid=153213 * I am islptng * (-1886) Replaced content with "{{Distinguish/Confusion|StormLang}} {{WIP}}"
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08:37:59 <esolangs> [[Ixth]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=153656&oldid=133280 * Stkptr * (+1754) Turing complete
08:39:41 <esolangs> [[Ixth]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=153657&oldid=153656 * Stkptr * (+56) /* Commands */
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11:02:57 <esolangs> [[10 digits, 100 digytes]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=153658&oldid=153637 * PrySigneToFry * (-6) "It supports infinity cell" "3 and 4 means variable"
13:17:44 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=153659&oldid=153475 * Hotcrystal0 * (+123) /* A new esolang */ new section
13:17:55 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=153660&oldid=153659 * Hotcrystal0 * (+93)
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13:56:25 <esolangs> [[User talk:Zopium]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=153661 * MihaiEso * (+407) Created page with "==Quote== :''Please note that I'm not from an English speaking country'' - What non-English speaking country? France? Germany? Italy? ~~~~"
15:05:43 <esolangs> [[Pointing]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=153662&oldid=153085 * Calculus is fun * (+57) /* Operators & variables */
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16:29:52 <yayimhere> hello I haven't been here for a long time. so hi.
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17:11:19 <yayimhere> ok so we all know that the more rules a system has the more complex it is
17:11:54 <yayimhere> but is it possible to make an esolang that with approximate exponential rate will, with increase in rules increase complexity
17:12:03 <yayimhere> like the more rules you add the more complexity
17:12:17 <yayimhere> and that relation is approx exponetial
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17:21:12 <esolangs> [[User:RocketRace]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=153663&oldid=149674 * RocketRace * (+44)
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17:47:49 <yayimhere> wait that would mean (I think) that at a finite amount of rules it would be Turing complete
17:48:02 <yayimhere> AND that at any amount higher than that I would be more than Turing complete
17:48:58 <korvo> yayimhere: Welcome back.
17:49:53 <korvo> It depends on exactly what you mean by "complexity". If you're thinking of space and time resources, then yes.
17:51:30 <yayimhere> I mean complexity as in like, how many states are achivable
17:52:22 <korvo> For example, a dictionary is exponentially big in the number of letters in the underlying alphabet.
17:53:00 <korvo> Think of words as (accepting) states of automata over that alphabet.
17:56:33 <korvo> yayimhere: None of this has much to do with Turing-completeness though; a TC system must have infinitely many states.
18:03:34 <yayimhere> most musical things you can make into drive
18:03:47 <yayimhere> like if you have an effect you can usually make it some sort of drive
18:03:56 <yayimhere> did that with the values in a language
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19:52:38 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=153664&oldid=153660 * I am islptng * (+549) /* A new esolang */
20:02:51 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=153665&oldid=152723 * Aadenboy * (+1127) rehaul
20:41:57 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=153666&oldid=153664 * Hotcrystal0 * (+135)
20:42:27 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/Deep]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=153667 * Hotcrystal0 * (+3) Created page with "WIP"
20:42:54 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=153668&oldid=153585 * Hotcrystal0 * (+40)
20:43:35 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=153669&oldid=153668 * Hotcrystal0 * (+6)
20:45:18 <esolangs> [[Talk:]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=153670 * Hotcrystal0 * (+223) Created page with "Can I add hotcrystal0s version which replaces the ** with [] for improved readability and being interpreted easier? ~~~~"
20:45:53 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=153671&oldid=153666 * Hotcrystal0 * (+54) /* A new esolang */
20:49:34 <esolangs> [[Rotate-Flak]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=153672 * Hotcrystal0 * (+38) Created page with "{{lowercase}} #REDIRCT [[afefoj-Flak]]"
20:49:50 <esolangs> [[Rotate-Flak]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=153673&oldid=153672 * Hotcrystal0 * (+1)
20:49:59 <esolangs> [[Rotate-Flak]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=153674&oldid=153673 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0) Redirected page to [[Afefoj-Flak]]
20:50:22 <esolangs> [[User:Aadenboy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=153675&oldid=153665 * Aadenboy * (-119) /* other esolangs */
20:51:36 <esolangs> [[User talk:PkmnQ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=153676&oldid=152603 * Hotcrystal0 * (+132)
21:04:38 <esolangs> [[User:Hotcrystal0/Deep]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=153677&oldid=153667 * Hotcrystal0 * (+76)
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21:06:15 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=153679&oldid=153645 * Buckets * (+11)
21:07:51 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=153680&oldid=153646 * Buckets * (+10)
21:08:08 <esolangs> [[HAps]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=153681 * Buckets * (+840) Created page with "HAps is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2021. (It can Only Register 12 commands at a time and only 2 cells and starts with 1.) {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | 0 || +1. |- | 1 || -1. |- | 2 || Flip to the other cell. |-
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22:00:57 <zzo38> My idea of the operating system design involved, one of the things it is, is that it is expect that if all inputs of a program are the same (regardless of how much time it takes to send those inputs) then the observable behaviour of the program will also be the same. Furthermore, you can filter and redirect I/O like on UNIX but this applies to all I/O rather than only standard I/O.
22:01:11 <zzo38> I think there are many advantages of doing these things in these ways.
22:04:51 <zzo38> Also, I found a weather by finger (graph.no; send a blank line to port 79 for a description)
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22:50:07 <isabella> is getting the current time an input
22:50:20 <b_jonas> zzo38: complete determinism for the programs is probably not possible to implement efficiently on current hardware
22:51:18 <zzo38> Yes. Getting the current time is an input, too. A program needs permission to determine the current date/time, like it does for any other I/O.
22:52:42 <isabella> e.g. if i do local=global++ from two different threads and global is an atomic counter
22:53:26 <zzo38> Threads handled by the operating system cannot share memory like that, although you can have threads that are not handled by the operating system.
22:56:16 <zzo38> In order to handle these security guarantees, it will be necessary to disallow threads from sharing memory, although you can use "green threads" instead, in which case they can share memory. (Alternatively, shared memory may be restricted by the use of locks, etc; even then, it will be necessary to handle by the I/O system so that this can be overridden.)
22:57:13 <isabella> or equivalent things on other architectures
22:57:30 <zzo38> Yes, they would have to be disabled.
22:57:59 <zzo38> Those would be disabled too.
22:58:39 <isabella> so what do we do once we have this
22:59:24 <isabella> all forms of async io also disabled? unix signals disabled?
22:59:57 <zzo38> (And, if the program tries to execute an unimplemented instruction, the operating system might be able to emulate it, e.g. bit manipulation extensions.)
23:00:57 <zzo38> It is not UNIX, so it does not have UNIX signals (although it might have something similar). Async is still possible, although you can use proxies or modify the operating system to guarantee the order if necessary.
23:03:59 <zzo38> (Asynchronous I/O is sometimes necessary; there are reasons why it will be necessary to keep it, although there will be ways to work around it.)
23:16:04 <zzo38> b_jonas: Which specific details will make it inefficient? (On some systems, using a hypervisor might help, maybe.) (Also, as I said there are a few compromises necessary but it will be needed to be possible to work around these easily.)
23:20:49 <b_jonas> zzo38: last time I looked, I had the impression that CPUs are built such that it's hard to eliminate all the non-determinacy from programs that deliberately try to be non-deterministic by doing weird things, and I think the only way around that would be some kind of overkill like a whole virtual machine. but I could be wrong.
23:21:21 <b_jonas> or perhaps you'd need some kind of compiler
23:29:14 <sprout> deterministic compilation is an area of study
23:29:58 <sprout> I once was called into a meeting with weird C behavior and the only thing I could tell them is that you don't have any guarantees whatsoever
23:30:06 <sprout> which was the wrong answer :/
23:30:58 <sprout> https://blog.conan.io/2019/09/02/Deterministic-builds-with-C-C++.html
23:34:09 <sprout> so, not only do we have non-deterministic cpus at this point, we also have non-deterministic compilers
23:34:21 <sprout> but industry has been pushing back on that
23:41:37 <zzo38> Making different CPU designs (and other details of the computer hardware) might be another possible consideration (although it can also be emulated on other types of computers, perhaps)
23:53:16 <korvo> Makes me think of Galois theory for programs. Like, the input-determines-output requirement is merely requiring a program to implement a function, right?
23:59:47 <esolangs> [[StackBBQ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=153682&oldid=153474 * Stkptr * (+901) Total