< 1742257401 146183 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement < 1742257444 791198 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1742258688 894863 :Trigon!~Trigon@2601:680:cd00:717f::2000 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1742258932 437341 :Trigon!~Trigon@2601:680:cd00:717f::2000 JOIN #esolangs * :https://codetriangle.me > 1742259733 496927 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:I am islptng14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154147&oldid=153983 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+945) 10/* I need help! */ > 1742260928 33162 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Semi-serious language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154148&oldid=154139 5* 03Ais523 5* (-16) 10/* N */ remove explanatory comment these can be commented out if necessary (I thought this one was unnecessary), but shouldn't be visible on the page because it disrupts the flow of the page and draws undue attention to a specific language < 1742263573 102041 :mtm!~textual@47.202.75.129 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1742264209 26321 :mtm!~textual@47.202.75.129 JOIN #esolangs mtm :Textual User > 1742266814 689809 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:I am islptng14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154149&oldid=154147 5* 03PkmnQ 5* (+270) 10/* HELP NEEDED */ < 1742267993 507912 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :(Selecting a move in Pokemon merely due to its priority and nothing else about it matters, is also what reminds me like, casting a spell in Magic: the Gathering for no other reason than it has split second (the effect doesn't matter), or choosing a card merely because it has madness even if you never intend to cast it.) < 1742270661 323129 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Sometimes a paper just begs for us to cover its topic. "In fact, we will not even write many formal Sammy programs. This is similar to the fact that no one actually ever formally writes the instructions for a Turing machine." https://arxiv.org/abs/1306.2675 > 1742271510 178333 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07REdACT14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154150&oldid=153107 5* 03FurCantCodeAnything 5* (-54) 10i fucking got a C its so jover > 1742272047 980970 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154151 5* 03FurCantCodeAnything 5* (+230) 10reservation for 9786 < 1742274212 71137 :mtm!~textual@47.202.75.129 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1742274408 655508 :mtm!~textual@47.202.75.129 JOIN #esolangs mtm :Textual User < 1742277861 290479 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :I will sleep today, but I intend that I will read it tomorrow. < 1742279130 681894 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1742282006 404196 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1742282030 293813 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1742282089 676016 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 NICK :Lord_of_Life > 1742287188 688984 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:JIT14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154152&oldid=154112 5* 03JIT 5* (+100) 10 > 1742287687 520456 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Rinuk14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154153&oldid=154125 5* 03JIT 5* (+5) 10 < 1742295792 300831 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hi > 1742298363 661353 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Uhidklol14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154154 5* 03Rico040 5* (+143) 10Created page with "Is there any implementaion of this language or is it in WIP? --~~~~" > 1742301341 261110 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Funciton14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154155&oldid=153062 5* 03Timwi 5* (+2) 10/* External resources */ Update repo link > 1742301451 199159 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Funciton14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154156&oldid=154155 5* 03Timwi 5* (-2) 10fix branch name > 1742301966 972904 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Befunge14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154157&oldid=151290 5* 03Tomrs123 2 5* (+1) 10tiny fix > 1742302175 624960 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07RandomText14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154158 5* 03None1 5* (+163) 10Created page with "'''RandomText''' is a joke, [[no-code esolang]] invented [[User:None1]], it prints random ASCII text by selecting a random integer within [31,127] and stops at 31." < 1742303032 925317 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs amby :realname < 1742303279 218626 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas < 1742303415 12040 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm doing a BIOS update, and the software shows "do not power down your system" on screen. I find this kind of ridiculous. Sure, that warning made sense in early 90s game consoles with tiny battery-backed memory on cartridges, but today everything just has double sized persistent flash memory with atomic updates anyway, so why show that warning? > 1742303662 799246 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07The last line of this page14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154159&oldid=150868 5* 03PkmnQ 5* (+3) 10/* Potentially paradoxical programs */ fix sentence > 1742304097 776849 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07The last line of this page14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154160&oldid=154159 5* 03PkmnQ 5* (+23) 10/* Near-interpreters */ > 1742306342 923701 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ask14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154161 5* 03JIT 5* (+1117) 10Created page with "Ask is an esolang by [[User:JIT]], 2025 ''"What if you just asked for Everything?"'' : -[[User:JIT]],2025 {| class="wikitable" |+ Non-asked commands |- ! Commands !! what they do |- | Ask ' ' || Ask for that |- | YES || yes |- | NO || no |- | mov[]^ || move the unicode charac > 1742306485 738355 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154162&oldid=154141 5* 03JIT 5* (+10) 10 > 1742307235 181332 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BraXYZZYuck14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154163 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+1472) 10Created page with "BraXYZZYuck is designed by PSTF. It is extended [[brainfuck]], and can be written in Unicode. The official pronounciation is /beksidzuk/. = Syntax overview = There are sixteen commands, and cells are calculate with WORD(maxima is 65535). Each command is half > 1742307263 618124 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07BraXYZZYuck14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154164&oldid=154163 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+1) 10Fixed > 1742307325 492989 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154165&oldid=154162 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+18) 10 < 1742308454 180390 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo JOIN #esolangs craigo :realname < 1742310793 43501 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Quit: Client closed > 1742311985 488562 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:PkmnQ14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154166&oldid=153751 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+204) 10/* UserEdited */ new section < 1742317432 232987 :mtm!~textual@47.202.75.129 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1742317613 878882 :mtm!~textual@47-202-75-129.fdr01.sprg.fl.ip.frontiernet.net JOIN #esolangs mtm :Textual User > 1742319672 276554 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Sammy14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154167 5* 03Corbin 5* (+620) 10Stub for yet another category-theory language. > 1742319929 274138 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154168&oldid=154165 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+17) 10 < 1742322373 950993 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :How to make registrations of ISO-IR that can be use with ISO 2022? > 1742323692 311266 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154169&oldid=154168 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+1) 10/* D */ < 1742323792 342742 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name) > 1742325076 818183 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Deadfih14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154170&oldid=153789 5* 03Krolkrol 5* (+25) 10 < 1742325213 225980 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds > 1742325551 150670 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Sammy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154171&oldid=154167 5* 03Corbin 5* (+3416) 10Document the kernel syntax. < 1742325627 715489 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :b_jonas > 1742326402 517285 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07TOIYEN14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154172 5* 03Krolkrol 5* (+2850) 10Created page with " = Quick Overview = Are you tired of programming languages that coddle you with convenience? Do you find yourself overwhelmed by the oppressive abundance of instructions in C or Python? Who needs if statements, loops, orheaven forbidfunctions, when you can have the raw, > 1742326535 438843 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Sammy14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154173&oldid=154171 5* 03Corbin 5* (+24) 10/* Syntax */ Coproduct gives not just the category but also the injecting functors. > 1742326624 498951 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154174&oldid=154169 5* 03Krolkrol 5* (+13) 10 > 1742326863 629153 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Sammy14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154175&oldid=154173 5* 03Corbin 5* (+14) 10/* Syntax */ Op is also allowed on functors, doing the obvious thing. < 1742327051 293168 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hm. Gonna have to think about this a bit. I can't figure out how to actually *perform* a composition in Sammy; given functors F : C → D and G : D → E, there should be some operation Comp so that I can form H = F;G : C → E. < 1742327086 801951 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :But there's probably some convoluted way to make a Kan extension that does it. < 1742328068 717785 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Oh, Hcomp is allowed to do it. But that doesn't leave me with a usable diagram... < 1742328195 946239 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs : I'm doing a BIOS update, and the software shows "do not power down your system" on screen. I find this kind of ridiculous. Sure, that warning made sense in early 90s game consoles with tiny battery-backed memory on cartridges, but today everything just has double sized persistent flash memory with atomic updates anyway, so why show that warning? ← I can imagine that a half-updated BIOS could be problematic – it wouldn't surprise me if the < 1742328197 318922 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :engineers weren't confident that every possible moment at which power might fail could be recoverable < 1742328221 98838 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it also wouldn't surprise me if the recovery state from a failed BIOS update would be a factory reset, rather than rolling back to the previous BIOS < 1742328242 407788 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(also, most modern systems use UEFI rather than BIOS) < 1742328252 130957 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(but people have probably stuck to the old terminology) < 1742329121 583063 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Good Night! > 1742329449 334139 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Sammy14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154176&oldid=154175 5* 03Corbin 5* (+276) 10This isn't right. I need lunch. > 1742332813 895910 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154177&oldid=154174 5* 03Buckets 5* (+69) 10 > 1742332868 458144 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Buckets14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154178&oldid=154142 5* 03Buckets 5* (+68) 10 > 1742332879 209813 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Red14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154179 5* 03Buckets 5* (+1854) 10Created page with "{{wrongtitle|title=}} is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2024. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | 0 || Concat < 1742333690 385204 :craigo_!~craigo@2403:5815:da48:0:a1aa:83b:a8a5:bab4 JOIN #esolangs * :realname < 1742333877 164672 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds > 1742336765 20600 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Non-Plushie-complete14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154180 5* 03Buckets 5* (+532) 10Created page with "Most Programming languages are [[Plushie-complete]], that means almost '''no''' Programming languages are Non-Plushie-complete. ==Rules== # It Cannot be able to print the number 4. # It Cannot be able to print the number 31. # It Cannot be able to store 2 i < 1742336939 29713 :tromp!~textual@2a02:a210:cba:8500:2c80:dbc6:3e9d:a12d QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds > 1742336953 861496 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Non-Plushie-complete14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154181&oldid=154180 5* 03Buckets 5* (+80) 10 > 1742336969 40408 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Non-Plushie-complete14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154182&oldid=154181 5* 03Buckets 5* (+4) 10 > 1742337019 401099 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Non-Plushie-complete14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154183&oldid=154182 5* 03Buckets 5* (+8) 10 > 1742337407 414312 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Non-Plushie-complete14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154184&oldid=154183 5* 03Buckets 5* (+43) 10 > 1742337562 453865 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Non-Plushie-complete14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154185&oldid=154184 5* 03Buckets 5* (+39) 10 > 1742337586 722905 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Plushie-complete14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154186&oldid=142707 5* 03Buckets 5* (+43) 10 > 1742337605 464525 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Plushie-complete14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154187&oldid=154186 5* 03Buckets 5* (+0) 10 > 1742337614 829766 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Anti-Plushie language14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154188&oldid=151889 5* 03Buckets 5* (+4) 10 < 1742338028 714378 :craigo_!~craigo@2403:5815:da48:0:a1aa:83b:a8a5:bab4 QUIT :Quit: Leaving > 1742339268 555612 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Non-Plushie-complete14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154189&oldid=154185 5* 03Buckets 5* (+80) 10 > 1742339294 945160 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Non-Plushie-complete14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154190&oldid=154189 5* 03Buckets 5* (+6) 10 < 1742340549 519524 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: what counts as a BIOS or not a BIOS? this one is certainly a modern computer with UEFI booting < 1742340608 925924 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :hmm, apparently only the old one before UEFI is called BIOS. that's a weird naming convention, but fine < 1742340875 101718 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: so BIOS and UEFI are two competing standards for providing an abstraction layer for handling early boot < 1742340885 153009 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :UEFI is more recent and more complicated > 1742340902 536707 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Non-Plushie-complete14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154191&oldid=154190 5* 03Buckets 5* (+2) 10 < 1742340934 812774 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :bootloaders need some standardised way to talk to the hardware, otherwise you'd need a new bootloader every time a new motherboard came out – and BIOS was that for decades because there's a lot of friction in making new standards for something like that < 1742340963 938395 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname < 1742340970 440943 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :even nowadays, many modern computers can be set to use BIOS rather than UEFI for early boot (but, most modern operating systems prefer UEFI, and I think recent Windows can't use BIOS) > 1742341014 932573 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07RandomText14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154192&oldid=154158 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+380) 10 < 1742341019 690742 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: right, UEFI boot is a newer more complicated system that loads operating system boot loaders from a file system and provides complex hardware abstractions to them, whereas BIOS just loads one boot sector from a floppy disk or hard disk and lets that handle most other things and provides more basic hardware services < 1742341065 205131 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and the UEFI BIOSes may provide some compatibility to the old system for easier transition < 1742341081 746753 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :apparently BIOS dates from 1975 and UEFI from 2006 – that's a long time to stay on one standard < 1742341113 876154 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(although UEFI is based on EFI, an earlier attempt to replace BIOS) < 1742341115 117664 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sure, but there are some new parts of BIOS, in particular LBA access to larger hard disks up to I think 4 GB < 1742341129 422677 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :EFI is from 1998, it seems < 1742341164 674580 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and possibly support for booting from a CD-ROM or network < 1742341239 261640 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :s/GB/TB/ < 1742341355 653706 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :though I'd like to ask how this is tied into the new GPT partition table format replacing the traditional PC+LBA smaller partition table format? I understand the latter doesn't have an extension to represent more than 4 TB of the hard disk, which is why you want to use the former these days. but is there a relation to UEFI? does UEFI require the GPT format, or does the GPT format require UEFI? < 1742341361 660834 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or neither? < 1742341457 78347 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :UEFI implements GPT – BIOS doesn't implement GPT but it doesn't block it from being implemented in software < 1742341516 608475 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and GPT leaves space to polyglot it with a valid BIOS bootloader, so if using BIOS + GPT, you can load the bootloader even though the BIOS can't read the disks, then have that load a software GPT implementation to actually do the disk reading < 1742341523 620739 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I think I'm still just using BIOS as a generic name for the early boot part of the software on the PC that isn't stored on disks or network. but maybe I should be calling it KERNAL for even more tradition. < 1742341575 105020 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: right, but can you load bootloader in UEFI format from a disk with only the old partition table and no GPT? < 1742341594 607587 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :not that this matters in practice < 1742341632 560690 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: apparently the spec says that UEFI implementations are supposed to support that, but in practice many of them don't < 1742341656 451871 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :though I am somewhat worried that since I don't understand how boot loading and boot loaders work these days, I might not be able to repair or install one if that's required after a hardware error < 1742341662 367566 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(and switch to BIOS instead if they see an old-format partition table) < 1742341702 415318 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :checking to see if I can customize the bootloader is one of the things I check before buying a new laptop – I have been meaning for years to write some boot-time programs but never got around to it < 1742341707 175513 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so the old partition table implies the old boot method? < 1742341731 705870 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :not in theory – in practice it is sometimes implemented like that < 1742341736 122671 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but it isn't supposed to be < 1742341738 96136 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I see < 1742341788 75311 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :because I think UEFI is supposed to be able to boot from cd-rom or network and you won't have GPT partition table on those. < 1742341822 723099 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :anyway, the way UEFI typically works in terms of the user interaction with the bootloader is that it detects all available bootloaders (they're stored at known paths on the filesystem) and uses NVRAM to know which one it should load by default; there's a key you can mash / hold down (depending on the system) as the computer is loading in order to put up a menu and let you choose any of them < 1742341853 702331 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yeah, that's F12 often < 1742341869 582890 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and then it loads the chosen bootloader, although bootloaders are allowed to chain-load each other, and some of them (such as GRUB) default to putting up their own menu of possible ways to boot < 1742341930 787626 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :interestingly Linux the kernel is typically compiled to be a valid UEFI program so that you could bootload it directly without going through GRUB, although distros normally like to have a separate bootloader anyway < 1742341934 728599 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: yeah < 1742341978 766921 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also, there's optional cryptographic signing which (after pressure from Microsoft) almost every PC manufacturer turns on by default, although generally there is a way to turn it off, and usually there is a way to customize it < 1742342001 401844 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :wait, the kernel is compiled to be an UEFI program? I knew it used to be a valid program for BIOS boot for floppy disk only (not hard disk) originally, but they later removed that functionality because you'd just use a small boot loader instead < 1742342055 254628 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and most computers ship with Microsoft's public key as the key to verify that a bootloader can be loaded (several Linux distros have their own signature-verifying bootloader that is signed by Microsoft, in order to make it installable without changing the boot settings) < 1742342075 585256 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, I have heard of that part < 1742342097 776932 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :it is usually possible to change the keys, although most users don't, especially as it would be hard to ensure that OS updates were signed with a key that the system understood < 1742342148 541634 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :and when I buy a computer I am normally looking for one that makes changing the keys easy < 1742342210 958898 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(incidentally, that sort of key change – or disabling signature verification – generally requires solving a CAPTCHA, and I haven't quite worked out what the threat model is there) < 1742342245 64321 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :IIUC the old floppy disk direct BIOS boot method got deprecated because boot loaders can pass a full kernel configuration string which is very useful but hadn't existed in very old linuxes, whereas the old direct boot method didn't allow such a configuration string but only a few bytes of customization that you can edit directly into the kernel, including the device numbers of the boot device and of the < 1742342251 69915 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :console < 1742342277 537407 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :yes, being able to edit the kernel command line is a good use for a bootloader > 1742342283 969639 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Network Headache14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154193&oldid=73597 5* 03Buckets 5* (+43) 10 < 1742342292 715677 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there's probably some way to do that within UEFI but it's also probably non-obvious and not very user-friendly