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01:02:13 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154147&oldid=153983 * I am islptng * (+945) /* I need help! */
01:22:08 <esolangs> [[Semi-serious language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154148&oldid=154139 * Ais523 * (-16) /* N */ remove explanatory comment these can be commented out if necessary (I thought this one was unnecessary), but shouldn't be visible on the page because it disrupts the flow of the page and draws undue attention to a specific language
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03:00:14 <esolangs> [[User talk:I am islptng]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154149&oldid=154147 * PkmnQ * (+270) /* HELP NEEDED */
03:19:53 <zzo38> (Selecting a move in Pokemon merely due to its priority and nothing else about it matters, is also what reminds me like, casting a spell in Magic: the Gathering for no other reason than it has split second (the effect doesn't matter), or choosing a card merely because it has madness even if you never intend to cast it.)
04:04:21 <korvo> Sometimes a paper just begs for us to cover its topic. "In fact, we will not even write many formal Sammy programs. This is similar to the fact that no one actually ever formally writes the instructions for a Turing machine." https://arxiv.org/abs/1306.2675
04:18:30 <esolangs> [[REdACT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154150&oldid=153107 * FurCantCodeAnything * (-54) i fucking got a C its so jover
04:27:27 <esolangs> [[]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154151 * FurCantCodeAnything * (+230) reservation for 9786
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06:04:21 <zzo38> I will sleep today, but I intend that I will read it tomorrow.
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08:39:48 <esolangs> [[User:JIT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154152&oldid=154112 * JIT * (+100)
08:48:07 <esolangs> [[Rinuk]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154153&oldid=154125 * JIT * (+5)
11:46:03 <esolangs> [[Talk:Uhidklol]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154154 * Rico040 * (+143) Created page with "Is there any implementaion of this language or is it in WIP? --~~~~"
12:35:41 <esolangs> [[Funciton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154155&oldid=153062 * Timwi * (+2) /* External resources */ Update repo link
12:37:31 <esolangs> [[Funciton]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154156&oldid=154155 * Timwi * (-2) fix branch name
12:46:06 <esolangs> [[Befunge]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154157&oldid=151290 * Tomrs123 2 * (+1) tiny fix
12:49:35 <esolangs> [[RandomText]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154158 * None1 * (+163) Created page with "'''RandomText''' is a joke, [[no-code esolang]] invented [[User:None1]], it prints random ASCII text by selecting a random integer within [31,127] and stops at 31."
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13:10:15 <wib_jonas> I'm doing a BIOS update, and the software shows "do not power down your system" on screen. I find this kind of ridiculous. Sure, that warning made sense in early 90s game consoles with tiny battery-backed memory on cartridges, but today everything just has double sized persistent flash memory with atomic updates anyway, so why show that warning?
13:14:22 <esolangs> [[The last line of this page]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154159&oldid=150868 * PkmnQ * (+3) /* Potentially paradoxical programs */ fix sentence
13:21:37 <esolangs> [[The last line of this page]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154160&oldid=154159 * PkmnQ * (+23) /* Near-interpreters */
13:59:02 <esolangs> [[Ask]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154161 * JIT * (+1117) Created page with "Ask is an esolang by [[User:JIT]], 2025 ''"What if you just asked for Everything?"'' : -[[User:JIT]],2025 {| class="wikitable" |+ Non-asked commands |- ! Commands !! what they do |- | Ask ' ' || Ask for that |- | YES || yes |- | NO || no |- | mov[]^ || move the unicode charac
14:01:25 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154162&oldid=154141 * JIT * (+10)
14:13:55 <esolangs> [[BraXYZZYuck]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154163 * PrySigneToFry * (+1472) Created page with "BraXYZZYuck is designed by PSTF. It is extended [[brainfuck]], and can be written in Unicode. The official pronounciation is /beksidzuk/. = Syntax overview = There are sixteen commands, and cells are calculate with WORD(maxima is 65535). Each command is half
14:14:23 <esolangs> [[BraXYZZYuck]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154164&oldid=154163 * PrySigneToFry * (+1) Fixed
14:15:25 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154165&oldid=154162 * PrySigneToFry * (+18)
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15:33:05 <esolangs> [[User talk:PkmnQ]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154166&oldid=153751 * Hotcrystal0 * (+204) /* UserEdited */ new section
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17:41:12 <esolangs> [[Sammy]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154167 * Corbin * (+620) Stub for yet another category-theory language.
17:45:29 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154168&oldid=154165 * Hotcrystal0 * (+17)
18:26:13 <zzo38> How to make registrations of ISO-IR that can be use with ISO 2022?
18:48:12 <esolangs> [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154169&oldid=154168 * Hotcrystal0 * (+1) /* D */
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19:11:16 <esolangs> [[Deadfih]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154170&oldid=153789 * Krolkrol * (+25)
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19:19:11 <esolangs> [[Sammy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154171&oldid=154167 * Corbin * (+3416) Document the kernel syntax.
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19:33:22 <esolangs> [[TOIYEN]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154172 * Krolkrol * (+2850) Created page with " = Quick Overview = Are you tired of programming languages that coddle you with convenience? Do you find yourself overwhelmed by the oppressive abundance of instructions in C or Python? Who needs if statements, loops, orheaven forbidfunctions, when you can have the raw,
19:35:35 <esolangs> [[Sammy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154173&oldid=154171 * Corbin * (+24) /* Syntax */ Coproduct gives not just the category but also the injecting functors.
19:37:04 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154174&oldid=154169 * Krolkrol * (+13)
19:41:03 <esolangs> [[Sammy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154175&oldid=154173 * Corbin * (+14) /* Syntax */ Op is also allowed on functors, doing the obvious thing.
19:44:11 <korvo> Hm. Gonna have to think about this a bit. I can't figure out how to actually *perform* a composition in Sammy; given functors F : C → D and G : D → E, there should be some operation Comp so that I can form H = F;G : C → E.
19:44:46 <korvo> But there's probably some convoluted way to make a Kan extension that does it.
20:01:08 <korvo> Oh, Hcomp is allowed to do it. But that doesn't leave me with a usable diagram...
20:03:15 <ais523> <wib_jonas> I'm doing a BIOS update, and the software shows "do not power down your system" on screen. I find this kind of ridiculous. Sure, that warning made sense in early 90s game consoles with tiny battery-backed memory on cartridges, but today everything just has double sized persistent flash memory with atomic updates anyway, so why show that warning? ← I can imagine that a half-updated BIOS could be problematic – it wouldn't surprise me if the
20:03:17 <ais523> engineers weren't confident that every possible moment at which power might fail could be recoverable
20:03:41 <ais523> it also wouldn't surprise me if the recovery state from a failed BIOS update would be a factory reset, rather than rolling back to the previous BIOS
20:04:02 <ais523> (also, most modern systems use UEFI rather than BIOS)
20:04:12 <ais523> (but people have probably stuck to the old terminology)
20:24:09 <esolangs> [[Sammy]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154176&oldid=154175 * Corbin * (+276) This isn't right. I need lunch.
21:20:13 <esolangs> [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154177&oldid=154174 * Buckets * (+69)
21:21:08 <esolangs> [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154178&oldid=154142 * Buckets * (+68)
21:21:19 <esolangs> [[Red]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154179 * Buckets * (+1854) Created page with "{{wrongtitle|title=<span style="background-color:red;color:black;"></span>}} <span style="background-color:red;color:black;"></span> is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2024. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | 0 || Concat
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22:26:05 <esolangs> [[Non-Plushie-complete]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154180 * Buckets * (+532) Created page with "Most Programming languages are [[Plushie-complete]], that means almost '''no''' Programming languages are Non-Plushie-complete. ==Rules== # It Cannot be able to print the number 4. # It Cannot be able to print the number 31. # It Cannot be able to store 2 i
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22:29:13 <esolangs> [[Non-Plushie-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154181&oldid=154180 * Buckets * (+80)
22:29:29 <esolangs> [[Non-Plushie-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154182&oldid=154181 * Buckets * (+4)
22:30:19 <esolangs> [[Non-Plushie-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154183&oldid=154182 * Buckets * (+8)
22:36:47 <esolangs> [[Non-Plushie-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154184&oldid=154183 * Buckets * (+43)
22:39:22 <esolangs> [[Non-Plushie-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154185&oldid=154184 * Buckets * (+39)
22:39:46 <esolangs> [[Plushie-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154186&oldid=142707 * Buckets * (+43)
22:40:05 <esolangs> [[Plushie-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154187&oldid=154186 * Buckets * (+0)
22:40:14 <esolangs> [[Anti-Plushie language]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154188&oldid=151889 * Buckets * (+4)
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23:07:48 <esolangs> [[Non-Plushie-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154189&oldid=154185 * Buckets * (+80)
23:08:14 <esolangs> [[Non-Plushie-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154190&oldid=154189 * Buckets * (+6)
23:29:09 <b_jonas> ais523: what counts as a BIOS or not a BIOS? this one is certainly a modern computer with UEFI booting
23:30:08 <b_jonas> hmm, apparently only the old one before UEFI is called BIOS. that's a weird naming convention, but fine
23:34:35 <ais523> b_jonas: so BIOS and UEFI are two competing standards for providing an abstraction layer for handling early boot
23:34:45 <ais523> UEFI is more recent and more complicated
23:35:02 <esolangs> [[Non-Plushie-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154191&oldid=154190 * Buckets * (+2)
23:35:34 <ais523> bootloaders need some standardised way to talk to the hardware, otherwise you'd need a new bootloader every time a new motherboard came out – and BIOS was that for decades because there's a lot of friction in making new standards for something like that
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23:36:10 <ais523> even nowadays, many modern computers can be set to use BIOS rather than UEFI for early boot (but, most modern operating systems prefer UEFI, and I think recent Windows can't use BIOS)
23:36:54 <esolangs> [[RandomText]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154192&oldid=154158 * I am islptng * (+380)
23:36:59 <b_jonas> ais523: right, UEFI boot is a newer more complicated system that loads operating system boot loaders from a file system and provides complex hardware abstractions to them, whereas BIOS just loads one boot sector from a floppy disk or hard disk and lets that handle most other things and provides more basic hardware services
23:37:45 <b_jonas> and the UEFI BIOSes may provide some compatibility to the old system for easier transition
23:38:01 <ais523> apparently BIOS dates from 1975 and UEFI from 2006 – that's a long time to stay on one standard
23:38:33 <ais523> (although UEFI is based on EFI, an earlier attempt to replace BIOS)
23:38:35 <b_jonas> sure, but there are some new parts of BIOS, in particular LBA access to larger hard disks up to I think 4 GB
23:38:49 <ais523> EFI is from 1998, it seems
23:39:24 <b_jonas> and possibly support for booting from a CD-ROM or network
23:42:35 <b_jonas> though I'd like to ask how this is tied into the new GPT partition table format replacing the traditional PC+LBA smaller partition table format? I understand the latter doesn't have an extension to represent more than 4 TB of the hard disk, which is why you want to use the former these days. but is there a relation to UEFI? does UEFI require the GPT format, or does the GPT format require UEFI?
23:44:17 <ais523> UEFI implements GPT – BIOS doesn't implement GPT but it doesn't block it from being implemented in software
23:45:16 <ais523> and GPT leaves space to polyglot it with a valid BIOS bootloader, so if using BIOS + GPT, you can load the bootloader even though the BIOS can't read the disks, then have that load a software GPT implementation to actually do the disk reading
23:45:23 <b_jonas> I think I'm still just using BIOS as a generic name for the early boot part of the software on the PC that isn't stored on disks or network. but maybe I should be calling it KERNAL for even more tradition.
23:46:15 <b_jonas> ais523: right, but can you load bootloader in UEFI format from a disk with only the old partition table and no GPT?
23:46:34 <b_jonas> not that this matters in practice
23:47:12 <ais523> b_jonas: apparently the spec says that UEFI implementations are supposed to support that, but in practice many of them don't
23:47:36 <b_jonas> though I am somewhat worried that since I don't understand how boot loading and boot loaders work these days, I might not be able to repair or install one if that's required after a hardware error
23:47:42 <ais523> (and switch to BIOS instead if they see an old-format partition table)
23:48:22 <ais523> checking to see if I can customize the bootloader is one of the things I check before buying a new laptop – I have been meaning for years to write some boot-time programs but never got around to it
23:48:27 <b_jonas> so the old partition table implies the old boot method?
23:48:51 <ais523> not in theory – in practice it is sometimes implemented like that
23:48:56 <ais523> but it isn't supposed to be
23:49:48 <b_jonas> because I think UEFI is supposed to be able to boot from cd-rom or network and you won't have GPT partition table on those.
23:50:22 <ais523> anyway, the way UEFI typically works in terms of the user interaction with the bootloader is that it detects all available bootloaders (they're stored at known paths on the filesystem) and uses NVRAM to know which one it should load by default; there's a key you can mash / hold down (depending on the system) as the computer is loading in order to put up a menu and let you choose any of them
23:51:09 <ais523> and then it loads the chosen bootloader, although bootloaders are allowed to chain-load each other, and some of them (such as GRUB) default to putting up their own menu of possible ways to boot
23:52:10 <ais523> interestingly Linux the kernel is typically compiled to be a valid UEFI program so that you could bootload it directly without going through GRUB, although distros normally like to have a separate bootloader anyway
23:52:58 <ais523> also, there's optional cryptographic signing which (after pressure from Microsoft) almost every PC manufacturer turns on by default, although generally there is a way to turn it off, and usually there is a way to customize it
23:53:21 <b_jonas> wait, the kernel is compiled to be an UEFI program? I knew it used to be a valid program for BIOS boot for floppy disk only (not hard disk) originally, but they later removed that functionality because you'd just use a small boot loader instead
23:54:15 <ais523> and most computers ship with Microsoft's public key as the key to verify that a bootloader can be loaded (several Linux distros have their own signature-verifying bootloader that is signed by Microsoft, in order to make it installable without changing the boot settings)
23:54:35 <b_jonas> yes, I have heard of that part
23:54:57 <ais523> it is usually possible to change the keys, although most users don't, especially as it would be hard to ensure that OS updates were signed with a key that the system understood
23:55:48 <ais523> and when I buy a computer I am normally looking for one that makes changing the keys easy
23:56:50 <ais523> (incidentally, that sort of key change – or disabling signature verification – generally requires solving a CAPTCHA, and I haven't quite worked out what the threat model is there)
23:57:25 <b_jonas> IIUC the old floppy disk direct BIOS boot method got deprecated because boot loaders can pass a full kernel configuration string which is very useful but hadn't existed in very old linuxes, whereas the old direct boot method didn't allow such a configuration string but only a few bytes of customization that you can edit directly into the kernel, including the device numbers of the boot device and of the
23:57:57 <ais523> yes, being able to edit the kernel command line is a good use for a bootloader
23:58:03 <esolangs> [[Network Headache]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154193&oldid=73597 * Buckets * (+43)
23:58:12 <ais523> there's probably some way to do that within UEFI but it's also probably non-obvious and not very user-friendly