< 1742342406 78531 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :like... boot into a helper that sets the command line instead of booting the kernel directly? scnr. < 1742342447 294273 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the other use for the boot loader is or used to be to load an initrd to serve as (or to populate) an early file system from which the kernel can load modules or run programs before it is able to access the normal root file system < 1742342464 344392 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't know if the UEFI method can handle this < 1742342472 259057 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :There's an "UEFI stub" anyway which could probably at least contain a hard-coded command line. < 1742342479 790953 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: I didn't realise it was the bootloader that did that rather than the kernel < 1742342492 461809 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :or even init, I guess < 1742342505 372756 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :the bootloader can definitely do that, but there might be some other method < 1742342535 946833 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :there is a system call to replace Linux's idea of what the root filesystem is (system-wide, not chroot-like), it looks kind-of intended for initrd as it's hard to think of many other legitimate uses < 1742342571 193642 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've seen that, but I don't understand how that's not just a special case of chroot < 1742342611 205987 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :what would a "system-wide" root filesystem even mean, as opposed to a process's < 1742342628 927474 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :well, it lets you move the old root fileystem inside the new root filesystem < 1742342634 487467 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :by moving the mount point < 1742342637 856941 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I don't think chroot can do taht < 1742342676 10902 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :that might be the actual difference. these days we have bind mounts to do that, but I think the pivot system call predates bind mounts < 1742342912 314832 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :also IIUC there's a fourth boot loading format that the kernel tried to support (besides BIOS floppy, the linux-specific one that linux-flavored boot loaders implement, and UEFI), namely "multiboot" which is a format used for some BSD kernels and is natively loaded by some BSD-flavored bootloaders (but also grub), and I think this wasn't really recommended because loading the linux-specific boot loaders < 1742342918 321841 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :works better, but partially worked < 1742343013 53251 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/Documentation/admin-guide/efi-stub.rst#passing-kernel-parameters-from-the-efi-shell ...so the question is, do BIOSes support doing that for their builtin boot menu too? < 1742343073 665049 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :(this makes sense; it's "just" a PE executable and those come with a command arguments ABI) < 1742343420 231108 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I've been living in Budapest all my life, and this year I've learned two new things about the city that I should have known for many years. < 1742343694 172256 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: I think most users couldn't figure out how to get to a UEFI shell < 1742343709 687275 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :in fact I don't actually know how it's done (although I suspect I might be able to figure it out if I needed to) < 1742343793 261232 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :same < 1742343931 833474 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :In the case that I am working with currently, I'm installing the UEFI boot machines for work purposes, and they get Windows 11, so the secure boot stays, though it does seem from the BIOS setup menus that you could turn it off if you wanted to. < 1742343941 978015 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(I think you could also install a new key.) < 1742344017 215348 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :The machines came with an Ubuntu pre-installed, but that's probably just a placeholder OS for when they sell them without a Windows. < 1742344786 321354 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement < 1742345983 771733 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Aah, the OS installer can create a Boot#### UEFI variable which supports command line arguments through passing a blob on to the "application". So if the BIOS allows you to pick a boot order for existing entries, that's good enough. < 1742346086 14909 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :https://uefi.org/specs/UEFI/2.10/03_Boot_Manager.html#load-options (boot variables contain a load option (or several? didn't try to figure that out.)) < 1742346175 766044 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm still puzzling through how to create a diagram with Sammy (https://arxiv.org/abs/1306.2675, p5-7). Does anybody see how to create a diagram from arrows? I might write up a script to generate all of the legal short programs and search for the correct construction that way. < 1742346286 363479 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: pivot_root on Linux? That is for initrd, yes. Also for kexec, since the exec'd kernel may need to load a new /lib for its modules. There are legends of other uses, like hot-swapping disks to update a machine's root without a cold boot, but they all kind of boil down to some sort of warm-bootstrappish action. < 1742347389 383467 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1742351682 429282 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name) < 1742352236 996169 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess pivot_root also prevents the double-chroot chroot escape – that would mean that you could allow chroot inside a pivot_root sandbox (which might actually be non-ridiculous because pivot_root can be namespaced nowadays) > 1742354995 628316 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Ps4 is good 5* 10New user account > 1742355475 136309 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154194&oldid=154114 5* 03Ps4 is good 5* (+199) 10/* Introductions */ > 1742355527 239752 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154195&oldid=154194 5* 03Ps4 is good 5* (-53) 10/* Introductions */ > 1742357251 673560 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07TypoScript14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154196 5* 03Ps4 is good 5* (+855) 10Created page with " TypoScript is a small language made by Ps4 is good. === Syntax === The syntax in TypoScript is similar to [[Befunge]] but different in the fact that you can't move the PC up left down and right. It reads as right normally, and has no spaces. You can see the tabl > 1742358321 430058 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Universal Lambda14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154197&oldid=139553 5* 03C0ffee 5* (+0) 10fixed typo < 1742359862 433214 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :TIL. I should look into whether there's an easy way to attenuate e.g. a Nix store for containers using that approach. < 1742359899 872819 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(On NixOS there's an easy way to mount the *system's* Nix store, and that can be proven safe enough, but it's not POLA because the container could run binaries that are only incidentally installed, a kind of living-off-the-land attack.) < 1742360724 950704 :mtm!~textual@47-202-75-129.fdr01.sprg.fl.ip.frontiernet.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1742360775 100396 :mtm!~textual@47.202.75.129 JOIN #esolangs mtm :Textual User > 1742362026 116931 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Sammy14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154198&oldid=154176 5* 03Corbin 5* (+1238) 10The core of Kolmogorov complexity for Sammy. The smorgasbord of inequalities will come later, after dinner. < 1742362301 773937 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 QUIT :Quit: quit > 1742365992 285611 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154199&oldid=154151 5* 03FurCantCodeAnything 5* (+1387) 10concept for this > 1742366398 749768 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07List of ideas14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154200&oldid=151910 5* 03FurCantCodeAnything 5* (+152) 10/* Joke/Silly Ideas */ > 1742366634 948841 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Works in progress14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154201&oldid=144006 5* 03FurCantCodeAnything 5* (+72) 10 > 1742366687 645236 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[0714]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154202&oldid=154199 5* 03FurCantCodeAnything 5* (-123) 10 < 1742368459 438988 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1742368587 339749 :Lord_of_Life!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord < 1742369178 805861 :yewscion_!~yewscion@2601:547:1400:1ab0:b3d9:e178:7811:ae04 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1742369233 956207 :yewscion!~yewscion@2601:547:1400:1ab0:b3d9:e178:7811:ae04 JOIN #esolangs * :Claire Rodriguez < 1742372882 755092 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer > 1742373437 220508 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Ask14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154203&oldid=154161 5* 03JIT 5* (-29) 10 > 1742373498 204739 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:JIT14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154204&oldid=154152 5* 03JIT 5* (+54) 10 > 1742375205 965492 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07General blindfolded arithmetic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154205&oldid=154135 5* 03Stkptr 5* (+1108) 10/* A simpler infinity */ > 1742378567 907588 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07General blindfolded arithmetic14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154206&oldid=154205 5* 03Stkptr 5* (+53) 10/* A simpler infinity */ > 1742378760 461266 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07General blindfolded arithmetic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154207&oldid=154206 5* 03Stkptr 5* (+132) 10/* Summary */ > 1742379016 731731 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07General blindfolded arithmetic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154208&oldid=154207 5* 03Stkptr 5* (+475) 10/* Core model */ > 1742379161 605073 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07General blindfolded arithmetic14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154209&oldid=154208 5* 03Stkptr 5* (+379) 10/* Core model */ < 1742382539 593833 :tromp!~textual@2a02:a210:cba:8500:f085:be23:3f4e:4a7a JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User < 1742384326 444707 :FreeFull!~freefull@79.186.73.126.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl JOIN #esolangs FreeFull :FreeFull > 1742384510 421659 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Non-Plushie-complete14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154210&oldid=154191 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+250) 10 < 1742384781 191451 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hail Erïs! 😇 < 1742384782 303003 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Celebrate Mojoday! > 1742384919 985417 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Storm-complete14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154211 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+555) 10Created page with "Storm-complete is a concept designed by PSTF. It was designed after he completed "The Storm" in the game Dancing Line. = What is Storm-complete? = To be Storm-complete, # It must be able to output 0. # It must be able to store 48 or 0 in any type of memory > 1742384988 26683 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:PrySigneToFry14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154212&oldid=153593 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+46) 10 > 1742385941 238952 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Cinnamony14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154213&oldid=118123 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+1) 10 > 1742386058 210763 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Cinnamony14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154214&oldid=154213 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+0) 10 < 1742387773 247010 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs * :realname > 1742390728 517052 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:/w/wiki/index.php/Talk:index.php/Main page14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154215&oldid=151722 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+226) 10 < 1742393784 198428 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1742394142 577018 :chiselfuse!~chiselfus@user/chiselfuse JOIN #esolangs chiselfuse :chiselfuse > 1742394898 525544 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:/w/wiki/index.php/Talk:index.php/Main page14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154216&oldid=154215 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+47) 10 > 1742394914 930794 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:/w/wiki/index.php/Talk:index.php/Main page14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154217&oldid=154216 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (-1) 10 > 1742394941 535229 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:/w/wiki/index.php/Talk:index.php/Main page14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154218&oldid=154217 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (-2) 10 > 1742395273 321333 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Hotcrystal0/Colon three14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154219&oldid=154121 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+28) 10 > 1742396608 757347 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Hotcrystal0/Colon three14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154220&oldid=154219 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+186) 10 > 1742396676 810416 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Hotcrystal0/Colon three14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154221&oldid=154220 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+56) 10 < 1742396959 981542 :Everything!~Everythin@static.208.206.21.65.clients.your-server.de JOIN #esolangs Everything :Everything < 1742403088 785556 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :APic: Oh, TIL, friend of five. May your day be unexpectedly god. < 1742403098 138587 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :*good, even. Thanks IRC. > 1742403291 72538 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07TEIJFOP14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154222 5* 03JIT 5* (+2034) 10Created page with "TEIJFOP or 'This esolang is just for one purpose' is an esolang by [[User:JIT]], 2025 This esolang is just for one purpose {| class="wikitable" |+ This esolang is just for one purpose |- ! commands !! What they do |- | i || input (i) |- | o || output |- | b > 1742403364 29425 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154223&oldid=154177 5* 03JIT 5* (+14) 10 > 1742403459 986863 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07TEIJFOP14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154224&oldid=154222 5* 03JIT 5* (+2) 10 < 1742403498 208480 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yours too < 1742403498 619745 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :😌 < 1742403893 101745 :mtm!~textual@47.202.75.129 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1742404012 257965 :mtm!~textual@47.202.75.129 JOIN #esolangs mtm :Textual User > 1742404827 765719 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07TEIJFOP14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154225&oldid=154224 5* 03JIT 5* (+113) 10 > 1742405277 541601 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Hakerh400/Types of exceptions14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154226 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+3548) 10Created page with "__NOTOC__ In this article we discuss various types of exceptions and how they can be used in some practical situations. === Hard exception === Hard exception is used to terminate the program immediately. It cannot be caught in any way. It > 1742405299 341476 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Hakerh40014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154227&oldid=154137 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (+61) 10/* Articles */ > 1742405346 318431 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Hakerh400/Types of exceptions14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154228&oldid=154226 5* 03Hakerh400 5* (-1) 10 < 1742407961 478996 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo JOIN #esolangs craigo :realname < 1742408231 510820 :molson_!~molson@2605-4A80-2101-99D0-7643-886B-E05B-CC83-dynamic.midco.net JOIN #esolangs molson :realname < 1742408404 951193 :molson!~molson@2605-4A80-2101-99D0-FAEF-B9FA-EF3-9AF3-dynamic.midco.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds > 1742411916 644502 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:Storm-complete14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154229 5* 0347 5* (+47) 10Created page with "this is getting more worse~~~" > 1742418422 984669 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154230&oldid=154223 5* 03Buckets 5* (+9) 10 > 1742418450 888982 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Buckets14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154231&oldid=154178 5* 03Buckets 5* (+8) 10 > 1742418460 323677 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07CG14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154232 5* 03Buckets 5* (+1176) 10Created page with "CG is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2022. (All hidden starting directions are towards the right.) {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | *i || Multiply by i. |- | *-1 || Multiply by -1. |- | +1 || +1. |- | -i || -i. |- | -1 > 1742418544 106467 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:AGG14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154233 5* 03Corbin 5* (+312) 10Hi! More details, please. > 1742421131 961664 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Non-Plushie-complete14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154234&oldid=154210 5* 03Buckets 5* (+296) 10 > 1742421271 304014 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Non-Plushie-complete14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154235&oldid=154234 5* 03Buckets 5* (+79) 10 < 1742421580 170503 :tromp!~textual@2a02:a210:cba:8500:f085:be23:3f4e:4a7a QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1742421703 583681 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :These joke complexity classes really need some sort of categorization. They're showing up in non-joke categories like [[Category:Concepts]] or [[Category:Turing complete]] now. < 1742421736 261924 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Yes, I agree that they should use the joke categories instead. < 1742421830 936860 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :We perhaps need [[Category:Joke complexity classes]]. But we don't even have [[Category:Complexity classes]] yet. < 1742421937 343123 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname < 1742422786 958998 :visilii!~visilii@85.94.26.83 JOIN #esolangs * :ZNC - https://znc.in < 1742422977 160221 :visilii_!~visilii@85.172.77.105 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds > 1742423246 448677 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07CG14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154236&oldid=154232 5* 03Buckets 5* (+139) 10 < 1742423632 933390 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :korvo: "Joke Concepts" -- but will that lead to every category having a joke counterparts? Where does it stop? Will we allow Joke Joke Programming Languages? < 1742423670 12154 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :s/Programming // < 1742424014 822605 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: yes, and Joke people, Joke before 1993, Joke 2026, Joke implemented, Joke Turing complete,