00:00:06 like... boot into a helper that sets the command line instead of booting the kernel directly? scnr. 00:00:47 the other use for the boot loader is or used to be to load an initrd to serve as (or to populate) an early file system from which the kernel can load modules or run programs before it is able to access the normal root file system 00:01:04 I don't know if the UEFI method can handle this 00:01:12 There's an "UEFI stub" anyway which could probably at least contain a hard-coded command line. 00:01:19 b_jonas: I didn't realise it was the bootloader that did that rather than the kernel 00:01:32 or even init, I guess 00:01:45 the bootloader can definitely do that, but there might be some other method 00:02:15 there is a system call to replace Linux's idea of what the root filesystem is (system-wide, not chroot-like), it looks kind-of intended for initrd as it's hard to think of many other legitimate uses 00:02:51 I've seen that, but I don't understand how that's not just a special case of chroot 00:03:31 what would a "system-wide" root filesystem even mean, as opposed to a process's 00:03:48 well, it lets you move the old root fileystem inside the new root filesystem 00:03:54 by moving the mount point 00:03:57 I don't think chroot can do taht 00:04:36 that might be the actual difference. these days we have bind mounts to do that, but I think the pivot system call predates bind mounts 00:08:32 also IIUC there's a fourth boot loading format that the kernel tried to support (besides BIOS floppy, the linux-specific one that linux-flavored boot loaders implement, and UEFI), namely "multiboot" which is a format used for some BSD kernels and is natively loaded by some BSD-flavored bootloaders (but also grub), and I think this wasn't really recommended because loading the linux-specific boot loaders 00:08:38 works better, but partially worked 00:10:13 https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/Documentation/admin-guide/efi-stub.rst#passing-kernel-parameters-from-the-efi-shell ...so the question is, do BIOSes support doing that for their builtin boot menu too? 00:11:13 (this makes sense; it's "just" a PE executable and those come with a command arguments ABI) 00:17:00 I've been living in Budapest all my life, and this year I've learned two new things about the city that I should have known for many years. 00:21:34 int-e: I think most users couldn't figure out how to get to a UEFI shell 00:21:49 in fact I don't actually know how it's done (although I suspect I might be able to figure it out if I needed to) 00:23:13 same 00:25:31 In the case that I am working with currently, I'm installing the UEFI boot machines for work purposes, and they get Windows 11, so the secure boot stays, though it does seem from the BIOS setup menus that you could turn it off if you wanted to. 00:25:41 (I think you could also install a new key.) 00:26:57 The machines came with an Ubuntu pre-installed, but that's probably just a placeholder OS for when they sell them without a Windows. 00:39:46 -!- amby has quit (Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement). 00:59:43 Aah, the OS installer can create a Boot#### UEFI variable which supports command line arguments through passing a blob on to the "application". So if the BIOS allows you to pick a boot order for existing entries, that's good enough. 01:01:26 https://uefi.org/specs/UEFI/2.10/03_Boot_Manager.html#load-options (boot variables contain a load option (or several? didn't try to figure that out.)) 01:02:55 I'm still puzzling through how to create a diagram with Sammy (https://arxiv.org/abs/1306.2675, p5-7). Does anybody see how to create a diagram from arrows? I might write up a script to generate all of the legal short programs and search for the correct construction that way. 01:04:46 ais523: pivot_root on Linux? That is for initrd, yes. Also for kexec, since the exec'd kernel may need to load a new /lib for its modules. There are legends of other uses, like hot-swapping disks to update a machine's root without a cold boot, but they all kind of boil down to some sort of warm-bootstrappish action. 01:23:09 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:34:42 -!- ais523 has joined. 02:43:56 I guess pivot_root also prevents the double-chroot chroot escape – that would mean that you could allow chroot inside a pivot_root sandbox (which might actually be non-ridiculous because pivot_root can be namespaced nowadays) 03:29:55 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Ps4 is good * New user account 03:37:55 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154194&oldid=154114 * Ps4 is good * (+199) /* Introductions */ 03:38:47 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154195&oldid=154194 * Ps4 is good * (-53) /* Introductions */ 04:07:31 [[TypoScript]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154196 * Ps4 is good * (+855) Created page with " TypoScript is a small language made by Ps4 is good. === Syntax === The syntax in TypoScript is similar to [[Befunge]] but different in the fact that you can't move the PC up left down and right. It reads as right normally, and has no spaces. You can see the tabl 04:25:21 [[Universal Lambda]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154197&oldid=139553 * C0ffee * (+0) fixed typo 04:51:02 TIL. I should look into whether there's an easy way to attenuate e.g. a Nix store for containers using that approach. 04:51:39 (On NixOS there's an easy way to mount the *system's* Nix store, and that can be proven safe enough, but it's not POLA because the container could run binaries that are only incidentally installed, a kind of living-off-the-land attack.) 05:05:24 -!- mtm has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:06:15 -!- mtm has joined. 05:27:06 [[Sammy]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154198&oldid=154176 * Corbin * (+1238) The core of Kolmogorov complexity for Sammy. The smorgasbord of inequalities will come later, after dinner. 05:31:41 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 06:33:12 [[]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154199&oldid=154151 * FurCantCodeAnything * (+1387) concept for this 06:39:58 [[List of ideas]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154200&oldid=151910 * FurCantCodeAnything * (+152) /* Joke/Silly Ideas */ 06:43:54 [[Works in progress]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154201&oldid=144006 * FurCantCodeAnything * (+72) 06:44:47 [[]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154202&oldid=154199 * FurCantCodeAnything * (-123) 07:14:19 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:16:27 -!- Lord_of_Life has joined. 07:26:18 -!- yewscion_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:27:13 -!- yewscion has joined. 08:28:02 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:37:17 [[Ask]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154203&oldid=154161 * JIT * (-29) 08:38:18 [[User:JIT]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154204&oldid=154152 * JIT * (+54) 09:06:45 [[General blindfolded arithmetic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154205&oldid=154135 * Stkptr * (+1108) /* A simpler infinity */ 10:02:47 [[General blindfolded arithmetic]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154206&oldid=154205 * Stkptr * (+53) /* A simpler infinity */ 10:06:00 [[General blindfolded arithmetic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154207&oldid=154206 * Stkptr * (+132) /* Summary */ 10:10:16 [[General blindfolded arithmetic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154208&oldid=154207 * Stkptr * (+475) /* Core model */ 10:12:41 [[General blindfolded arithmetic]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154209&oldid=154208 * Stkptr * (+379) /* Core model */ 11:08:59 -!- tromp has joined. 11:38:46 -!- FreeFull has joined. 11:41:50 [[Non-Plushie-complete]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154210&oldid=154191 * PrySigneToFry * (+250) 11:46:21 Hail Erïs! 😇 11:46:22 Celebrate Mojoday! 11:48:39 [[Storm-complete]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154211 * PrySigneToFry * (+555) Created page with "Storm-complete is a concept designed by PSTF. It was designed after he completed "The Storm" in the game Dancing Line. = What is Storm-complete? = To be Storm-complete, # It must be able to output 0. # It must be able to store 48 or 0 in any type of memory 11:49:48 [[User:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154212&oldid=153593 * PrySigneToFry * (+46) 12:05:41 [[User:Cinnamony]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154213&oldid=118123 * Hotcrystal0 * (+1) 12:07:38 [[User:Cinnamony]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154214&oldid=154213 * Hotcrystal0 * (+0) 12:36:13 -!- amby has joined. 13:25:28 [[User talk:/w/wiki/index.php/Talk:index.php/Main page]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154215&oldid=151722 * PrySigneToFry * (+226) 14:16:24 -!- chiselfuse has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:22:22 -!- chiselfuse has joined. 14:34:58 [[User talk:/w/wiki/index.php/Talk:index.php/Main page]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154216&oldid=154215 * Hotcrystal0 * (+47) 14:35:14 [[User talk:/w/wiki/index.php/Talk:index.php/Main page]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154217&oldid=154216 * Hotcrystal0 * (-1) 14:35:41 [[User talk:/w/wiki/index.php/Talk:index.php/Main page]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154218&oldid=154217 * Hotcrystal0 * (-2) 14:41:13 [[User:Hotcrystal0/Colon three]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154219&oldid=154121 * Hotcrystal0 * (+28) 15:03:28 [[User:Hotcrystal0/Colon three]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154220&oldid=154219 * Hotcrystal0 * (+186) 15:04:36 [[User:Hotcrystal0/Colon three]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154221&oldid=154220 * Hotcrystal0 * (+56) 15:09:19 -!- Everything has joined. 16:51:28 APic: Oh, TIL, friend of five. May your day be unexpectedly god. 16:51:38 *good, even. Thanks IRC. 16:54:51 [[TEIJFOP]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154222 * JIT * (+2034) Created page with "TEIJFOP or 'This esolang is just for one purpose' is an esolang by [[User:JIT]], 2025 This esolang is just for one purpose {| class="wikitable" |+ This esolang is just for one purpose |- ! commands !! What they do |- | i || input (i) |- | o || output |- | b 16:56:04 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154223&oldid=154177 * JIT * (+14) 16:57:39 [[TEIJFOP]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154224&oldid=154222 * JIT * (+2) 16:58:18 Yours too 16:58:18 😌 17:04:53 -!- mtm has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:06:52 -!- mtm has joined. 17:20:27 [[TEIJFOP]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154225&oldid=154224 * JIT * (+113) 17:27:57 [[User:Hakerh400/Types of exceptions]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154226 * Hakerh400 * (+3548) Created page with "__NOTOC__ In this article we discuss various types of exceptions and how they can be used in some practical situations. === Hard exception === Hard exception is used to terminate the program immediately. It cannot be caught in any way. It 17:28:19 [[User:Hakerh400]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154227&oldid=154137 * Hakerh400 * (+61) /* Articles */ 17:29:06 [[User:Hakerh400/Types of exceptions]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154228&oldid=154226 * Hakerh400 * (-1) 18:12:41 -!- craigo has joined. 18:17:11 -!- molson_ has joined. 18:20:04 -!- molson has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:18:36 [[Talk:Storm-complete]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154229 * 47 * (+47) Created page with "this is getting more worse~~~" 21:07:02 [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154230&oldid=154223 * Buckets * (+9) 21:07:30 [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154231&oldid=154178 * Buckets * (+8) 21:07:40 [[CG]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154232 * Buckets * (+1176) Created page with "CG is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2022. (All hidden starting directions are towards the right.) {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | *i || Multiply by i. |- | *-1 || Multiply by -1. |- | +1 || +1. |- | -i || -i. |- | -1 21:09:04 [[Talk:AGG]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154233 * Corbin * (+312) Hi! More details, please. 21:52:11 [[Non-Plushie-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154234&oldid=154210 * Buckets * (+296) 21:54:31 [[Non-Plushie-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154235&oldid=154234 * Buckets * (+79) 21:59:40 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 22:01:43 These joke complexity classes really need some sort of categorization. They're showing up in non-joke categories like [[Category:Concepts]] or [[Category:Turing complete]] now. 22:02:16 Yes, I agree that they should use the joke categories instead. 22:03:50 We perhaps need [[Category:Joke complexity classes]]. But we don't even have [[Category:Complexity classes]] yet. 22:05:37 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:19:46 -!- visilii has joined. 22:22:57 -!- visilii_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:27:26 [[CG]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154236&oldid=154232 * Buckets * (+139) 22:33:52 korvo: "Joke Concepts" -- but will that lead to every category having a joke counterparts? Where does it stop? Will we allow Joke Joke Programming Languages? 22:34:30 s/Programming // 22:40:14 int-e: yes, and Joke people, Joke before 1993, Joke 2026, Joke implemented, Joke Turing complete,