00:15:16 -!- isabella has changed nick to izacat. 00:15:49 -!- iovoid has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:15:49 -!- Bowserinator has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:15:49 -!- moony has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:35:52 [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * Dhzb * New user account 00:49:07 [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (N-S)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154789&oldid=153862 * BoundedBeans * (+132) Added Quassaunt 00:50:44 [[Hello world program in esoteric languages (N-S)]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154790&oldid=154789 * BoundedBeans * (+209) Added SATire 01:03:56 [[DotNetOISC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154791&oldid=129348 * BoundedBeans * (+1245) Added ]]SET+TERMINATOR function 01:06:10 [[DotNetOISC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154792&oldid=154791 * BoundedBeans * (+212) Added queue detail of ]]SET+TERMINATOR 01:07:43 [[DotNetOISC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154793&oldid=154792 * BoundedBeans * (-112) No need to delete bin/ directory three separate times in truth-machine 01:13:56 [[User talk:PrySigneToFry]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154794&oldid=153255 * I am islptng * (+1146) 01:14:32 [[DotNetOISC]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154795&oldid=154793 * BoundedBeans * (+90) Clarified some aspects of gotos/labels 01:15:31 [[Twasm]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154796&oldid=154784 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-15) 01:16:12 [[Twasm]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154797&oldid=154796 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+12) 01:21:55 -!- amby has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:34:17 -!- moony has joined. 01:35:12 -!- Bowserinator has joined. 01:37:05 -!- [iovoid] has joined. 01:48:07 [[Template:CURRENTDATE]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154798 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+48) Created page with "{{CURRENTYEAR}}-{{CURRENTMONTH}}-{{CURRENTDAY2}}" 01:51:07 -!- [iovoid] has changed nick to iovoid. 02:03:22 [[Braindeadcpu]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154799 * Baldibacak * (+743) creation of this shitty esolang 02:03:42 [[Braindeadcpu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154800&oldid=154799 * Baldibacak * (+6) 02:07:11 [[Braindeadcpu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154801&oldid=154800 * Baldibacak * (+38) 02:08:08 [[Braindeadcpu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154802&oldid=154801 * Baldibacak * (+127) /* Commands */ 02:08:16 [[Template:April]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154803 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+105) Created page with "{{#ifeq: {{#time: m-d}} | 04-01 |
{{{2|}}}
| {{#ifeq: {{{1|y}}} | n |
{{{3|}}}
| }}" 02:08:24 [[Talk:ONE WAY]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154804 * DigitalDetective47 * (+404) /* Computational Class */ new section 02:11:47 [[Template:April]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154805&oldid=154803 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+2) 02:19:26 [[Piet]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154806&oldid=151367 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+20) /* Commands */ 02:30:40 [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154807&oldid=154747 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+26) /* T */ 02:37:47 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154808&oldid=154807 * Ais523 * (-26) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/154807|154807]] by [[Special:Contributions/JHSHernandez-ZBH|JHSHernandez-ZBH]] ([[User talk:JHSHernandez-ZBH|talk]]) it doesn't make sense to have a language that is on the language list only on April 1, that isn't how lists work 02:37:53 [[Brit]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154809 * Dmiz * (+2358) Created page with "Brit is are an esolang created to be cool looking
Brit are stack based and suport variables
you write brit code using tildas(~) and lines to separate commands, you need the bar (|) at the beginning of each sentence, which tells the interpreter to execute the line, i 02:45:34 [[HQ9+]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154810&oldid=153159 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-22) 03:08:47 [[Tables]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154811&oldid=65726 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-9) 03:20:29 [[Funciton]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154812&oldid=154746 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+0) 03:21:13 [[Funciton]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154813&oldid=154812 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+2) 03:21:50 [[Funciton]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154814&oldid=154813 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+2) /* Syntactic elements */ 03:22:37 [[Funciton]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154815&oldid=154814 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+4) /* NAND and the splitter */ 03:26:04 [[Funciton]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154816&oldid=154815 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+62) /* NAND and the splitter */ 03:28:33 [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154817&oldid=152087 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+110) 03:29:15 [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154818&oldid=154817 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+47) /* {{april|y|april fools|I made a template for april fools}} */ 03:29:30 [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154819&oldid=154818 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+4) /* {{april|y|april fools|I made a template for april fools}} */ 03:31:10 [[Template:April]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154820&oldid=154805 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+80) 03:31:35 [[Template:April]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154821&oldid=154820 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+13) 03:31:52 [[Template:April]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154822&oldid=154821 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-13) 03:33:34 [[Template:April]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154823&oldid=154822 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+27) 03:34:08 [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154824&oldid=154819 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+81) /* {{april|y|april fools|I made a template for april fools}} */ 03:34:53 [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154825&oldid=154824 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-11) /* {{april|y|april fools|I made a template for april fools}} */ 03:35:04 [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154826&oldid=154825 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-1) /* {{april|y|april fools|I made a template for april fools}} */ 03:35:39 [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154827&oldid=154826 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+3) /* {{april|y|april fools|I made a template for april fools}} */ 03:39:00 [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154828&oldid=154827 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+138) /* {{april|y|april fools|I made a template for april fools}} */ 03:39:46 [[Thue]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154829&oldid=150366 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+10) /* See also */ 03:40:18 [[Thue]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154830&oldid=154829 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+8) /* See also */ 03:41:48 -!- FreeFull has quit. 03:54:51 [[User talk:/w/wiki/index.php/Talk:index.php/Main page]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154831&oldid=154218 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+34) 03:57:00 [[AREA]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154832&oldid=144230 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+0) Changed redirect target from [[JAGL]] to [[Just]] 04:00:45 [[Works in progress]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154833&oldid=154201 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+26) 04:29:30 [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154834&oldid=154828 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+18) /* {{april|y|april fools|I made a template for april fools}} */ 04:33:21 [[Twasm]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154835&oldid=154797 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+10) 04:33:39 [[Twasm]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154836&oldid=154835 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+7) 04:33:57 [[Twasm]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154837&oldid=154836 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+2) 04:34:07 [[Twasm]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154838&oldid=154837 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+0) 04:34:20 [[Twasm]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154839&oldid=154838 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+0) 04:34:38 [[Twasm]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154840&oldid=154839 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-13) 04:48:32 [[Works in progress]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154841&oldid=154833 * Ais523 * (-26) Undo revision [[Special:Diff/154833|154833]] by [[Special:Contributions/JHSHernandez-ZBH|JHSHernandez-ZBH]] ([[User talk:JHSHernandez-ZBH|talk]]) again, it doesn't make sense for a page to appear on a list only on April Fool's Day 04:50:38 [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154842&oldid=154834 * Ais523 * (+592) /* I made a template for april fools */ this doesn't seem useful 05:19:24 [[User:Zzo38/Game rules]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154843&oldid=134089 * Zzo38 * (+59) The HTTP server is currently disabled due to botnets but there is an alternative resource. 05:20:22 -!- gAy_Dragon has changed nick to AI_Dragon. 05:35:59 [[Ifle-complete]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154844 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+379) Created page with "A language is '''Ifle-complete''' if it satisfies the following requirements: # It must be [[plushie-complete]]. # It must be able to do all functions available in [[TM]]. # It must be able to do all functions available in [[HQ9+]]. # It must be able to do 05:37:29 [[Ifle-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154845&oldid=154844 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-73) 05:39:26 [[Ifle-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154846&oldid=154845 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+23) 05:41:13 [[Ifle-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154847&oldid=154846 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-3) 05:46:38 [[Ifle-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154848&oldid=154847 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-11) 06:01:38 -!- craigo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 06:54:43 -!- tromp has joined. 07:16:38 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has joined. 07:16:39 -!- Lord_of_Life has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:17:49 `learn The password of the month is outside the scope of this wisdom entry. 07:17:53 Relearned 'password': The password of the month is outside the scope of this wisdom entry. 07:17:54 `? password 07:17:56 The password of the month is outside the scope of this wisdom entry. 07:18:01 -!- Lord_of_Life_ has changed nick to Lord_of_Life. 07:40:09 [[Non-Plushie-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154849&oldid=154424 * JIT * (+35) 07:49:32 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:55:33 Okay, I got the arrows the right way around: https://gist.github.com/MostAwesomeDude/f31eff9e483a9e0223f14fb629c55755 07:56:41 When I was ranting the other night, I was holding the symmetries inside-out and thus upside-down; I was looking at {4} and {1, 1, 1, 1} and saying that their cardinalities were 4 and 1 instead of 1 and 4. 07:57:24 But the principles still apply. The idea about compilers seems to make sense, although I'm a little sleep-deprived and maybe it's gibberish. 08:01:00 I'm gonna sleep on it, but I'm thinking about surjectivity. Last time, we talked about the BF fragments [>+<-] and [->+<] which perform the same copy/move operation and witness a commuting series of memory accesses. More directly, [-] and [+] perform the same memory operation up to get/put semantics; they both put 0 to the pointed cell. 08:02:16 This is a sense in which compiling to a Brand A system *requires* symmetry breaking, even if one wants to argue that [>+<-] and [->+<] are technically subtly different in their micro-op ordering. 08:03:43 [[TEIJFOP]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154850&oldid=154225 * JIT * (-29) 08:23:03 -!- lisbeths has joined. 08:40:14 hmm, now I'm thinking about Brainpocalypse II – as far as I can tell, the only symmetry of the numerical version is in which number you give to which cell – and the minimized version doesn't straightforwardly have even that symmetry 08:41:13 the BF-like <>+- version contains more symmetries, as you can add and remove <> and >< pairs as long as you don't go to the left of the starting location 08:41:52 there's a point at which removing symmetries from an algorithm makes a program, but I'm not sure which of those points it is 08:42:12 -!- ais523 has quit (Quit: quit). 09:08:54 [[PAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154851&oldid=154407 * I am islptng * (+1469) 09:15:34 [[Esolang:Introduce yourself]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154852&oldid=154686 * Dhzb * (+144) 09:23:20 [[User:Dhzb]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154853 * Dhzb * (+26) Created page with "# [[Rura|rura]] # [[Moed]]" 09:23:32 [[PAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154854&oldid=154851 * I am islptng * (+76) 09:26:36 [[PAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154855&oldid=154854 * I am islptng * (-196) /* Examples */ 09:57:00 -!- izacat has changed nick to citizen. 10:00:46 -!- citizen has changed nick to izabera. 10:00:50 -!- izabera has changed nick to isabella. 10:00:51 -!- m5zs7k has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:12:39 -!- isabella has changed nick to izatest1. 10:13:11 -!- izatest1 has changed nick to izatest2. 10:13:13 -!- izatest2 has changed nick to izatest3. 10:13:15 -!- izatest3 has changed nick to izatest4. 10:13:17 -!- izatest4 has changed nick to izatest5. 10:13:19 -!- izatest5 has changed nick to izatest6. 10:13:56 -!- izatest6 has changed nick to izabera. 10:20:24 -!- m5zs7k has joined. 10:36:06 [[Ifle-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154856&oldid=154848 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+30) 10:38:12 [[Islp-complete]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154857 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+45) Redirected page to [[User:I am islptng/Islp-complete]] 10:38:37 [[Islp-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154858&oldid=154857 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+0) Changed redirect target from [[User:I am islptng/Islp-complete]] to [[User:I am islptng/Islp-Complete]] 10:42:17 -!- lisbeths has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 10:46:47 [[5]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154859&oldid=145654 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+89) count: 5, 2, 3, 4, 1, 6, 7, 8, 9 10:48:51 [[5]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154860&oldid=154859 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+48) 10:49:04 [[5]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154861&oldid=154860 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+1) 10:49:26 [[5]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154862&oldid=154861 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+0) /* Cell-based instructions */ 10:50:03 [[Talk:]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154863&oldid=154583 * RocketRace * (+147) /* Unstack */ 10:54:02 [[MetaInterpreter]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154864 * JIT * (+13153) Created page with "MetaInterpreter (or TIN PET (for short)) is an esolang by [[User:JIT]], 2025, April fools (or the april foolsth of 2025) ''"What if the esolang had an interpreter (that was also an esolang) and the esolang had an interpreter (that was also an eso 10:54:42 [[Language list]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154865&oldid=154808 * JIT * (+22) 10:55:00 [[TIN PET]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154866 * JIT * (+29) Redirected page to [[MetaInterpreter]] 10:56:25 [[Ifle-complete]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154867&oldid=154856 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+72) 11:08:10 [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154868&oldid=154842 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-52) /* I made a template for april fools */ 11:10:55 [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154869&oldid=154868 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+236) /* I made a template for april fools */ 11:11:07 [[Esolang talk:Community portal]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154870&oldid=154869 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (+4) /* I made a template for april fools */ 11:12:29 [[Special:Log/move]] move * JHSHernandez-ZBH * moved [[Template:April]] to [[User:JHSHernandez-ZBH/templates/April]]: unusable 11:15:08 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 11:16:41 [[Introduction to esolang design]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154873&oldid=76470 * JHSHernandez-ZBH * (-6) /* Other Sentence Type Languages */ 11:35:39 -!- tromp has joined. 11:46:13 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 12:05:19 Hi 12:07:01 [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154874&oldid=152091 * 447xpro * (+325) /* Notable implementations */ Added docker runtime 12:08:02 [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154875&oldid=154874 * 447xpro * (-2) /* Docker runtime */ link format 12:09:26 [[Brainfuck implementations]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154876&oldid=151073 * 447xpro * (+256) /* Normal implementations */ Added docker implementation 12:10:36 [[Brainfuck]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154877&oldid=154875 * 447xpro * (-43) /* Docker runtime */ nicer link 13:03:20 [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154878&oldid=154809 * Dmiz * (+6) 13:06:41 [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154879&oldid=154878 * Dmiz * (+1) 13:14:57 -!- tromp has joined. 13:37:02 [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154880&oldid=154879 * Dmiz * (+276) 13:43:34 [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154881&oldid=154880 * Dmiz * (-95) 13:54:54 [[Braindeadcpu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154882&oldid=154802 * Baldibacak * (-17) 13:57:18 [[Braindeadcpu]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154883&oldid=154882 * Baldibacak * (+43) 14:04:38 [[Talk:PAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154884&oldid=154254 * Cycwin * (+588) /* S I M T S */ new section 14:08:18 [[Talk:PAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154885&oldid=154884 * Cycwin * (+29) /* S I M T S */ 14:13:21 [[Talk:PAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154886&oldid=154885 * Cycwin * (+84) /* S I M T S */ 14:30:50 [[User:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154887&oldid=154788 * PrySigneToFry * (+41) 14:34:25 [[User:I am islptng/Silicon dioxide in a polypropylene box]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154888&oldid=154887 * PrySigneToFry * (-1) 14:38:27 [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154889&oldid=154881 * Dmiz * (-60) 14:39:25 [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154890&oldid=154889 * Dmiz * (+86) 14:42:47 [[Moed]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154891 * Dhzb * (+1118) Created page with "{{WIP}} Moed (pronounced /mid/) is an [[esoteric programming language]] by [[User:Dhzb]]. == Whitespace == Whitespace is ''sometimes'' significant. === Newlines === Newlines can be scoped inside of {...} curly braces which can be targeted by newline-imperae. 14:45:30 [[User:Dhzb]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154892&oldid=154853 * Dhzb * (+33) 14:48:25 [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154893&oldid=154890 * Dmiz * (+45) 14:49:08 [[Brit]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154894&oldid=154893 * Dmiz * (-49) 15:13:58 [[2DSPC]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154895 * Esdraslov * (+2292) Created page with "[[2DSPC]] is a 2D esolang by [[User:Esdraslov]] == commands == Whatever something is pushed to the stack, it's pushed to the start of it, so the stack functions as a queue. {| class="wikitable" !command !action |- |style="text-align:center"|< |Changes th 15:16:04 [[User talk:Hotcrystal0]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154896&oldid=154328 * Hotcrystal0 * (-243) 15:18:07 [[User talk:Gilbert189]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154897&oldid=153763 * Hotcrystal0 * (+187) /* TBG-based additions to UserEdited */ new section 15:24:25 [[!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154898 * Esdraslov * (+286) Created page with "!!!!!111!!!!11111!!!!!!!11!!!111 == Commands == ! does nothing ! prints!!!!!!!!!!!!111! ! is [[brainfuck]] [ and ] 1111 1, just 1 == Examples == === !1111 !11111 === !1111 !11111 (1st April joke) [[ 15:24:53 [[Moed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154899&oldid=154891 * Dhzb * (+22) 15:28:40 -!- amby has joined. 15:32:21 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 15:33:58 [[Moed]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154900&oldid=154899 * Dhzb * (+47) 15:38:23 [[Talk:Cellular automaton]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154901 * Hotcrystal0 * (+278) Created page with "==Do cellular automata '''really''' count as esolangs?== For example, is [[CGoL]] really an esolang? Theres not really any output, unless you consider the next generation to be. ~~~~" 15:38:31 [[Talk:Cellular automaton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154902&oldid=154901 * Hotcrystal0 * (-2) 15:40:37 [[Scratcholang]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154903&oldid=147650 * Hotcrystal0 * (+5) word fix, also its intended to be linked to on Scratch so used a clean name for brainf 15:41:11 [[Scratch]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154904&oldid=151657 * Hotcrystal0 * (+2) 15:48:34 -!- ally_ok has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:52:47 -!- tromp has joined. 15:53:03 [[Talk:Cellular automaton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154905&oldid=154902 * Corbin * (+482) /* Do cellular automata really count as esolangs? */ Yes. 16:13:56 -!- iovoid has quit (Quit: iovoid has quit!). 16:15:46 -!- iovoid has joined. 16:23:20 [[Cellular automaton]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154906&oldid=146197 * Corbin * (+600) Reframe popularity for the world outside GoL wiki: the most important CAs are in biology and physics. 16:24:04 Maybe it's just me, but I don't give a fuck that Wolfram put a number on a particular automaton. I care a lot more about the fact that some particular sea snail happens to biologically implement that automaton. 16:26:33 [[Moed]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154907&oldid=154900 * Dhzb * (+1466) 16:47:36 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:48:28 korvo: so the "any quiescent configuration should be equally valid" in the cellular automaton article is wrong – it would allow you to use a quiescent configuration that, e.g., encodes a halting oracle and use that to prove the cellular automaton uncomputable 16:49:10 ais523: Which article, CA or GoL? The GoL article's freshly researched but the CA one was already like that when I got here. 16:49:18 the CA article 16:49:42 you were editing near it at the time – I'm not holding you responsible for it but thought you might have ideas on how to fix it 16:49:55 Ah, okay. I'm afraid I don't know why it claims that, and it seems obviously wrong given that a Penrose tiling can carry a unary stream of (low-complexity) bits in its initial configuration. 16:50:51 Hm, so how *should* it be fixed? Should we define the concept of agar? 16:52:10 so this is awkward because a) it's impossible for the all-blank configuration to ever be TC if the CA is based on a regular tiling, b) for some CAs, periodic conditions may be more powerful than finitely initialised configurations 16:52:54 the equivalent problem for Turing machines (defining which initializations logically "should" be allowed) is one that I tried to solve for many years and eventually gave up on 16:53:28 Oh, and (c) a TC CA doesn't necessarily have universal construction in the sense of being able to instantiate an arbitrary pattern. I documented this for GoL and I'm still chewing through what it means for our definitions. 16:54:23 I think that if you're treating a CA as though it were a programming language, there's no real conceptual issue with starting from a garden of eden or other nonconstructible state 16:54:34 For TMs there's an easy convention that you may have seen before: point the set of tape symbols and set the starting tape to be constantly that point. Basically give it a natural zero value. 16:55:25 Then the complexity of stashing a predefined tape into the input program is precisely the Kolmogorov complexity of that tape over TMs. (For TMs of a given state/symbol count, I think?) 16:56:27 korvo: yes; that's the "blank tape" starting state for TMs 16:57:03 but, a TM that uses that starting state can't be fully Turing-complete because it can only run one program 16:57:07 ais523: Yeah. I was hoping that phrasing would somehow unlock an analogy for CAs, but I'm not quite seeing it. 16:57:50 -!- craigo_ has joined. 16:58:02 so normally TM proofs use either "finitely initialized" (i.e. only finitely many cells are not the blank tape element) or "periodically initialized" 16:58:49 or even "periodic, then finite, then periodic" (with the periodic elements stretching to infinity) 16:59:21 Huh. Can't a UTM just take two arguments on two input tapes, which WLOG can be one input tape? Or is that too fancy? 16:59:28 the rule 110 TCness proof uses a periodic-finite-periodic starting state, to implement cyclic tag – but in fact it implements sequential tag and the periodicity is used to create an infinite sequential tag program 16:59:39 korvo: sure, but then the tape isn't blank 17:00:56 anyway, this means that maybe the rule 110 TCness proof isn't actually proving the language does everything needed to be TC, as its control flow (the infinite loop around the program) appears to be inherited from the initial state rather than created within the language 17:01:44 Wolfram's 2,3 Turing machine did basically the same thing but was much more controversial, because the control flow stolen from the initial condition needs two nested loops (with the outer loop determining how many iterations the inner loop has) and so the starting tape pattern isn't periodic 17:02:43 I don't know how to resolve this disconnect, and all my recent TCness-of-Turing-machines work has been using finitely initialised tapes 17:02:50 Well, yeah, because what we're actually saying is that -- up to a Kolmogorov constant -- if the tape starts blank, then the program can finitely initialize it, or it can periodically initialize it with a cap that indicates how to extend it indefinitely later. 17:03:35 We're not allowed to initialize the tape with an arbitrary oracle. It has to be something that can conceptually be encoded into the program itself. 17:03:51 korvo: right, but this often happens in the context of trying to find the "simplest universal Turing machine" or "simplest universal cellular automaton" and in that case the Kolmogorov constant really mattesr 17:04:46 and there's also the issue that, e.g., at least one Turing-complete TM exists, likewise at least one Turing-complete CA exists, but I don't think that should allow you to start from arbitrary computable tape states 17:09:04 Well, that's always fundamentally going to be a search for convoluted encodings, right? In the sense that a Turing tarpit isn't ever going to cede universality merely because you've prefixed an environment with some fixed bitstring. 17:10:18 I think that when we're trying to put inequalities onto an uncomputable function, we're allowed to use computability in our favor. That seems to be where the interesting inequalities come from, at least. 17:11:19 right, the "convoluted encodings" is the primary problem, especially as what you permit in terms of encoding probably depends on what computational class you're trying to demonstrate 17:11:49 for TCness demonstrations I like "the encoder has to be primitive recursive" – that a) ensures finite output and b) prevents the encoder doing the calculation itself 17:12:40 Sorry, I might be bleeding a bit; I'm reading a writeup about simulating neurons in agar, and they have the line, "a simulated [neuron] in a simulated [plate of] agar should behave the same way as a real [neuron] in a real [plate of] agar". A computable simulation shouldn't be an obstacle. 17:15:03 Ah, okay, this might be a genuine philosophical branch. I prefer diagonalization! 17:16:55 So that might be why I'm leaning towards a two-tape presentation and flexible inputs; I'm not comfortable with a TM that can't take (two) inputs. 17:18:37 I/O isn't needed for Turing-completeness, so the second tape is only really needed for I/O-completeness proofs 17:19:00 ...Now that I'm saying that... The complexity class P is defined via diagonalization. Time Hierarchy is used to expand linear-time to quadratic-time, to cubic-time, all the way up. Then it's used again to define PH. P is self-low and its reductions are also in P. 17:20:11 It's the Church-Turing thesis that R is kind of like the ceiling of the same sort of hierarchy built on PR. (I call that hierarchy PRF but it doesn't have a common name.) Not self-low, so maybe computable reductions are the wrong choice. 17:20:32 But PR reductions are still the base of that hierarchy, and so maybe they're the right choice. Maybe they're the natural choice, even. 17:22:16 PR reductions are closed under composition, so R would be a category in the nice way, like P or NP under poly-time reductions. 17:25:22 ais523: I think that this suggests that "simplest universal TM/CA" is underspecified, because it's not an isomorphism-invariant concept under this setup: precomposition with a PR reduction will increase Kolmogorov complexity, as you noted. 17:26:21 korvo: I agree! that doesn't stop people trying to solve the problem, but (due to being underspecified) it does mean they can reasonably come up with different answers 17:26:55 Or, as we say in category-theory land, they are doing "evil" maths~ 17:27:27 [[Special:Log/move]] move * Hotcrystal0 * moved [[Afefoj-Flak]] to [[o-Flak]]: closer approximation of real title 17:27:27 [[Special:Log/move]] move * Hotcrystal0 * moved [[Talk:Afefoj-Flak]] to [[Talk:o-Flak]]: closer approximation of real title 17:27:59 [[Rotate-Flak]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154912&oldid=153674 * Hotcrystal0 * (+5) Changed redirect target from [[Afefoj-Flak]] to [[o-Flak]] 17:29:19 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 17:29:48 [[Talk:Tautologylang]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154913 * Rdococ * (+178) Created page with "Technically, every language fits the description for Tautologylang. Does that make them all dialects? ~~~~" 17:30:04 so I like to work on precisely defined variations of the problem, such as "how many symbols do you need for a finitely initialised 2-state Turing machine to be universal, assuming that the halting behaviour needs to match and the initial state is generated as a computable function of the program to be run" 17:31:09 my current record for that is 14, incidentally: https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/265539 17:32:24 [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154914&oldid=154636 * Hotcrystal0 * (+14) 17:32:34 [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154915&oldid=154914 * Hotcrystal0 * (-1) 17:32:44 [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154916&oldid=154915 * Hotcrystal0 * (-6) 17:33:18 [[User:Hotcrystal0/CGoL+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154917&oldid=154296 * Hotcrystal0 * (+7) 17:34:50 [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154918&oldid=154916 * Hotcrystal0 * (+59) 17:35:00 [[Esolang:Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154919&oldid=154918 * Hotcrystal0 * (+6) 17:44:16 -!- tromp has joined. 18:04:48 [[Topple]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154920&oldid=154533 * H33T33 * (+232) 18:11:58 “ for TCness demonstrations I like ‘the encoder has to be primitive recursive’” => ok, but you have to clarify what that means when you're initializing an infinite background pattern. 18:15:00 b_jonas: blank (i.e. all the same symbol) everywhere outside the PR output 18:15:34 periodic seems to give too much power, often by allowing you to implement sequential tag rather than cyclic tag 18:16:44 for one that doesn't sound cheating, there's the Nopfunge thing that fills the quarter-plane periodically, with periodic near the edges too 18:20:34 on a different note, Tom7 has revealed what geometry conjecture he was working on, and I very much understand its nerdsniping potential 18:32:14 b_jonas: I see Nopfunge and its derivatives as more of a demonstration of *why* that should be considered cheating 18:32:28 <^>v logically "shouldn't" be Turing-complete 18:40:26 [[HQ9+]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154921&oldid=154810 * Ractangle * (+22) no 18:43:42 [[5]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154922&oldid=154862 * Ractangle * (-138) !!!!! 18:45:47 [[User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154923&oldid=154429 * Hotcrystal0 * (+16) testing 18:45:57 [[User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154924&oldid=154923 * Hotcrystal0 * (+77) 18:47:00 [[User:Hotcrystal0/Sandbox]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154925&oldid=154924 * Hotcrystal0 * (-93) 19:55:28 [[Language list]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154926&oldid=154865 * Buckets * (+61) 19:55:41 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 19:55:55 [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154927&oldid=154748 * Buckets * (+60) 19:56:10 [[EIGHT EGGS]] N https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=154928 * Buckets * (+1412) Created page with "{{wrongtitle|title=EIGHT EGGS}} EIGHT EGGS is an Esoteric programming language created by [[User:Buckets]] in 2020. {| class="wikitable" |- ! Commands !! Instructions |- | EGG ,EGG, esolangs: who invented the cellular automaton? 20:15:40 ais523: The cellular automaton concept was initially explored by **Stanislav Ulam** and **John von Neumann** in the 1940s, with **Alvy Ray Smith** formalizing it in the 1960s. While Ulam and von Neumann laid the groundwork, Smith's work is credited with establishing the basic principles and results for working with cellular automata. 20:19:20 I was expecting the answer to be a lot less accurate than that 20:19:37 there are at least two plausible wrong answers 20:29:08 John Conway because of GoL; Martin Gardner because he popularized all recrational mathematics and people are often confused and think he invented more of it than he did; Gauss because he's always a plausible answer for who invented something in mathematics 20:30:47 cu 20:34:20 Noam Chomskey can also be a suspect because of how he defined context-sensitive grammars 20:41:46 huh, are context-sensitive grammars similar to cellular automata in any way? 20:45:38 -!- Sgeo has joined. 20:46:44 ais523: store symbols from a finite alphabet per cell and each step modifies symbols locally. 20:47:10 the difference is that cellular automata apply rules simultansouly everywhere, while context-sensitive grammar applies one rule somewhere locally at a time 20:48:01 well, this is for one-dimensional cellular-automata, that's what context-sensitive grammars are similar to to be clear 20:48:18 (also context-sensitive grammar are allowed to delete cells) 20:48:31 this reminds me of how the "check if a context-free grammar is ambiguous" problem is TC – there's a pretty simple construction which emulates what's basically a Turing machine directly (except that instead of a BF-like tape, it has a finite-length tape but one symbol can be expanded into two or more to lengten the tape) 20:49:31 the basic idea is that the potentially ambiguous input string (which the ambiguity checker is trying to find – you don't provide it) consist of a history of tapes, with a separator symbol between them, and every second element is written backwards 20:49:32 [[MetaInterpreter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154929&oldid=154864 * Buckets * (+204) 20:49:49 [[MetaInterpreter]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154930&oldid=154929 * Buckets * (+1) 20:51:02 one possible parse is just a set of rules that treat tape symbols in the first tape like opening brackets and tape symbols in the second tape like closing brackets, with a separator symbol at the innermost point – you just repeat that with separators between them, and handle changes to the TM state and tape by moving a tape-head symbol around (sort-of like how you prove Thue and Thupit) 20:51:10 the other possible parse is the same but with the first tape hardcoded 20:51:57 so you basically end up with the ambiguity checker running back and forth along the tape, changing the tape around the TM head as appropriate 20:56:43 [[Talk:PAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154931&oldid=154886 * I am islptng * (-132) 20:59:19 -!- FreeFull has joined. 20:59:55 [[PAL]] https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154932&oldid=154855 * I am islptng * (+86) 21:02:37 [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154933&oldid=154927 * Buckets * (+131) 21:32:18 [[User:Buckets]] M https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=154934&oldid=154933 * Buckets * (+72) 21:50:16 ais523: The bot had good RAG because I beefed up the CA article and also the timeline/history of esolangs pages. 21:50:37 Fairly certain I'm the only on-wiki fan of Alvy Ray. A pixel is *not* a little square! 21:51:12 -!- craigo_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:51:53 -!- craigo has joined. 21:52:37 -!- tromp has quit (Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 21:52:49 esolangs: Who invented the Game of Life cellular automaton? 21:53:37 korvo: The Game of Life cellular automaton was invented by **John Horton Conway** sometime between 1968 and 1970. 22:01:38 esolangs: Who invented the Ant cellular automaton? 22:01:51 This might not hit without "Langton" but I'm foolishly optimistic. 22:03:13 ah yes, he doesn't fall into the same trap as I just did. there are two mathematicians called John Conway. 22:03:21 korvo: The Ant cellular automaton was invented by an anonymous individual. 22:09:59 esolangs: Who invented the cellular automaton Langton's Ant? 22:11:11 Also Melvin Conway, who wrote a very important paper around 1967 called "How do Committees Invent?" Famous paper that almost nobody actually reads or understands. 22:11:43 korvo: Langton's Ant was invented by Chris Langton in 1986. 23:31:37 -!- amby has quit (Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement). 23:46:00 -!- sprock has quit (Remote host closed the connection).