> 1743984548 919035 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:I am islptng/WIP14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155298&oldid=155292 5* 03I am islptng 5* (-114) 10
> 1743986672 151770 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Foldy14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155299&oldid=154471 5* 03Squareroot12621 5* (+23) 10Add <noinclude> to the comment inside the link
> 1743986956 533886 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Foldy14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155300&oldid=155299 5* 03Squareroot12621 5* (-23) 10Revert; it didn't do anything
< 1743987307 441597 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net QUIT :Quit: so long suckers! i rev up my motorcylce and create a huge cloud of smoke. when the cloud dissipates im lying completely dead on the pavement
< 1743989015 369842 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: I also think that that's less powerful than a full linear bounded automaton, but I don't have a proof
> 1743993678 492353 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03WhatToUseThisFor 5*  10New user account
< 1743995166 187067 :zzo38!~zzo38@host-24-207-52-143.public.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esolangs :Due to their keep changing some things in the formatting of Magic: the Gathering rules, I had to update my program for converting to HTML; this last time, the heading for rule 505 was incorrectly not copied due to a blank line containing a space before it, but I fixed that now.
< 1743995544 929416 :amadaluzia_!~amadaluzi@user/amadaluzia QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
> 1744001813 40907 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07StormScript14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155301&oldid=153655 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+2016) 10
< 1744002000 122490 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :Thinkin' about Owner-Free File System again. This time I'm thinking of how it might interact with a Gödel machine; such a machine might learn OFFS blocks which are efficient, useful, or otherwise common.
< 1744002055 581694 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I probably should get at least one (1) thing off my plate first though.
< 1744003823 925410 :m5zs7k!aquares@web10.mydevil.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1744004104 655901 :m5zs7k!aquares@web10.mydevil.net JOIN #esolangs m5zs7k :m5zs7k
> 1744004683 909379 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07UserEdited14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155302&oldid=154638 5* 03Gilbert189 5* (+2028) 10The Musical Update
< 1744007558 488252 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
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< 1744010239 198064 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 JOIN #esolangs Lord_of_Life :Lord
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< 1744010320 486214 :Lord_of_Life_!~Lord@user/lord-of-life/x-2819915 NICK :Lord_of_Life
< 1744014754 217030 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas
< 1744014927 219399 :wib_jonas75!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu JOIN #esolangs b_jonas :[https://web.libera.chat] wib_jonas
< 1744014987 162435 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by wib_jonas75))
< 1744014990 657110 :wib_jonas75!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu NICK :wib_jonas
< 1744015228 598506 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: a linear-bounded automaton can solve a SAT instance by iterating through every solution and checking them. a multi-stack machine without null state changes that you mentioned can be evaluated in linear time in the input. so if they were equally powerful that would imply P=NP. This is probably an overkill argument and there's one that
< 1744015229 98915 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu PRIVMSG #esolangs :doesn't depend on such a conjecture, but I think it's at least a heuristic.
< 1744016286 222150 :wib_jonas!~wib_jonas@business-37-191-60-209.business.broadband.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
> 1744018446 50044 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Harlanward 5*  10New user account
< 1744020560 222665 :amby!~ambylastn@ward-15-b2-v4wan-167229-cust809.vm18.cable.virginm.net JOIN #esolangs amby :realname
> 1744021747 897906 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Minsky machine busy beaver14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155303 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (+567) 10Created page with "== Definition == +X means increment the X register  -Yn means if the Y register is nonzero, Decrement it and jump to n    all the below tables are for 2 registers A and B. also, if there are multiple programs with the same time we only list one.  ==
< 1744022248 912265 :esolangs!~esolangs@techne.zem.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1744022286 873960 :esolangs!~esolangs@techne.zem.fi JOIN #esolangs esolangs :esolangs.org
< 1744022286 911303 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services.libera.chat MODE #esolangs +v :esolangs
> 1744022422 182659 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Minsky machine busy beaver14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155304&oldid=155303 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (+0) 10
> 1744023523 195960 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Minsky machine busy beaver14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155305&oldid=155304 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (+269) 10
< 1744024140 887087 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :Hi
< 1744024891 807541 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:1419:ab0:498a:2d0c QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
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> 1744026672 728044 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Minsky machine busy beaver14]]4 M10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155307&oldid=155305 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (+79) 10/* Unconfirmed */
> 1744026928 378246 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Minsky machine busy beaver14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155308&oldid=155307 5* 03C++DSUCKER 5* (+37) 10
> 1744027718 832266 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07UserEdited14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155309&oldid=155302 5* 03PrySigneToFry 5* (+1145) 10
< 1744028408 991310 :Lymia!lymia@ayame.servers.aura.moe JOIN #esolangs Lymia :Lymia Aluysia
< 1744028424 441662 :Lymee!lymia@ayame.servers.aura.moe QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
> 1744029677 10060 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Talk:MSFE++14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155310&oldid=155297 5* 03Cycwin 5* (+24) 10
> 1744029816 978088 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Stkptr14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155311&oldid=155273 5* 03Cycwin 5* (+113) 10/* Thanks */ new section
< 1744031221 649680 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:1419:ab0:498a:2d0c JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1744032340 953632 :amadaluzia!~amadaluzi@2a00:23c7:ed8b:6701:fca7:4ddf:16d4:e0c7 JOIN #esolangs * :Artur Manuel
> 1744034827 477896 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07UserEdited/Versions14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155312&oldid=154639 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+34) 10
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> 1744035070 227143 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Argh!14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155314&oldid=142525 5* 035anz 5* (+0) 10/* Examples */
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< 1744036835 310959 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:1419:ab0:498a:2d0c QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
> 1744037075 769306 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User:Hotcrystal014]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155316&oldid=155115 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+0) 10capitalization fix
> 1744037597 321792 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:PrySigneToFry14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155317&oldid=155315 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+294) 10
> 1744037618 65170 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:PrySigneToFry14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155318&oldid=155317 5* 03Hotcrystal0 5* (+6) 10
< 1744038113 567825 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:1419:ab0:498a:2d0c JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
< 1744043376 42069 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo JOIN #esolangs craigo :realname
< 1744043386 784455 :craigo!~craigo@user/craigo QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1744044315 30347 :korvo!~korvo@2604:a880:4:1d0::4d6:d000 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: That's an elegant argument. Nice.
> 1744044943 425925 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03Aramya 5*  10New user account
< 1744046494 161498 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:1419:ab0:498a:2d0c QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
< 1744047639 963116 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:1419:ab0:498a:2d0c JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
> 1744048198 153522 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Undyne Programming Language14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155319&oldid=155288 5* 03Joachim 5* (+1) 10/* Display */
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< 1744048500 440688 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:1419:ab0:498a:2d0c QUIT :Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…
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< 1744048618 74242 :tromp!~textual@2001:1c00:3487:1b00:1419:ab0:498a:2d0c JOIN #esolangs * :Textual User
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< 1744050764 104293 :amadaluzia!~amadaluzi@2a00:23c7:ed8b:6701:fca7:4ddf:16d4:e0c7 QUIT :Quit: Hi, this is Paul Allen. I'm being called away to London for a few days. Meredith, I'll call you when I get back. Hasta la vista, baby.
< 1744050824 426512 :amadaluzia!~amadaluzi@2a00:23c7:ed8b:6701:3858:3fc1:f625:edbc JOIN #esolangs * :Artur Manuel
< 1744050973 575004 :amadaluzia!~amadaluzi@2a00:23c7:ed8b:6701:3858:3fc1:f625:edbc QUIT :Client Quit
< 1744051030 959484 :amadaluzia!~amadaluzi@host81-159-254-182.range81-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN #esolangs * :Artur Manuel
< 1744051328 287678 :amadaluzia!~amadaluzi@host81-159-254-182.range81-159.btcentralplus.com QUIT :Quit: Hi, this is Paul Allen. I'm being called away to London for a few days. Meredith, I'll call you when I get back. Hasta la vista, baby.
< 1744051417 102137 :amadaluzia!~amadaluzi@2a00:23c7:ed8b:6701:a768:391e:7525:9f74 JOIN #esolangs * :Artur Manuel
< 1744052876 260926 :APic!apic@apic.name PRIVMSG #esolangs :cu
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> 1744056705 894686 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Esolang:Introduce yourself14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155324&oldid=155274 5* 03WhatToUseThisFor 5* (+66) 10
< 1744057978 411506 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 JOIN #esolangs ais523 :(this is obviously not my real name)
< 1744058001 423223 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :is quadratic-time known to be more powerful than linear-time? if so, then even P=NP wouldn't prevent a linear-time program being unable to solve SAT
< 1744058076 49639 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :Linear and quadratic time on what formalism? (sorting in the RAM model comes to mind)
< 1744058088 347199 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :comparison-based that is
< 1744058095 761764 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :oh, good point – the model matters when it's linear versus quadratic
< 1744058155 244426 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :this is a multiple-stack model (which is similar to a multitape Turing machine model but you can add and delete tape elements in addition to changing them)
< 1744058473 93651 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I guess I could call this the Esimpl model – I think it's the same performance up to amortization and constant factors (two stacks can simulate a queue in amortized linear time)
< 1744059259 976497 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :linear vs quadratic can also matter on what specific NP-complete problem you choose and how it's encoded.
< 1744059275 242107 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ah, you're saying SAT specifically
< 1744059399 458140 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but anyway, yes, it's because linear time is such a strong restriction why I expect that your question can be answered even without knowing P!=NP
< 1744059427 502920 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I'm not convinced that this model is even linear-time-complete
< 1744059441 261805 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(the stack machine that can only do stack manipulation as it reads input)
< 1744059441 299940 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :because I think the complexity theorists know some problems that can be solved in exponential time but not in linear time, or something like that, and you could exploit that here
< 1744059462 916190 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :sure, we don't need it linear time complete, and it probably isn't
< 1744059515 947059 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :my original thought was basically that you give a problem encoded with a block cipher and give the short symmetric key at the very end of the problem description, then the no null transitions multi-stack machine has very little time to decode the problem
< 1744059535 931395 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :you can find the median of an array in linear time, right? but I can't see how to do that with the stack-operations-when-reading machine
< 1744059541 152373 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :but that doesn't work directly when you're asking about asymptotics
< 1744059555 895733 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :since a block cipher with fixed size can be solved by a huge finite state machine
< 1744060362 159012 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :like if you know how to solve the original problem with an machine with P stacks and N states, and there are 2↑256 possible block cipher keys, then solve the ciphered problem by simulating 2↑256 copies of that multi-stack machine (plus the state of the cipher) with a giant multi-stack machine that has 2↑256·P stacks and (N·C)↑(2↑256) states where C is the number of states of the cipher
< 1744060436 207638 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: 2N tapes can simulate N stacks and 2N stacks can simulate N tapes, right? :)
< 1744060445 327374 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :err
< 1744060451 287455 :int-e!~noone@int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esolangs :N tapes can simulate N stacks
< 1744060494 413458 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :int-e: yes
< 1744060746 662244 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :ais523: hold on, you are requiring your multi-stack machine without null transitions to be deterministic, right?
< 1744060785 990463 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :b_jonas: yes, although interestingly I came across this while trying to solve a problem that involved NPDAs
< 1744060793 786844 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :so the nondeterministic case might be interesting
< 1744060815 67093 :ais523!~ais523@user/ais523 PRIVMSG #esolangs :(fwiw I no longer think it's the right solution, so it's just a curiosity more than something that's the right answer)
< 1744060839 578233 :b_jonas!~x@88.87.242.184 PRIVMSG #esolangs :I asked because my simple heuristic doesn't work if it can be nondeterministic
< 1744060884 992490 :amadaluzia_!~amadaluzi@2a00:23c7:ed8b:6701:e287:4eed:50df:f686 JOIN #esolangs * :Artur Manuel
< 1744060885 75060 :amadaluzia!~amadaluzi@2a00:23c7:ed8b:6701:a768:391e:7525:9f74 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
> 1744062414 869701 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07User talk:Hotcrystal0/Colon three14]]4 N10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=155325 5* 03I am islptng 5* (+46) 10Where's the U-turner?
< 1744064085 411519 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@user/sgeo JOIN #esolangs Sgeo :realname
> 1744065185 579278 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07Category talk:Unknown computational class14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155326&oldid=138372 5* 035anz 5* (+306) 10
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> 1744066931 190035 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07257-wrap brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155327&oldid=155234 5* 03Tpaefawzen 5* (+60) 10
> 1744067471 123629 PRIVMSG #esolangs :14[[07257-wrap brainfuck14]]4 10 02https://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=155328&oldid=155327 5* 03Tpaefawzen 5* (+40) 10/* Implementation */